Yeah. I've played the franchise enough I'm tossing in the handicap of not using healing items for a legit boss run. I'll do it while getting around the stage, and learning their patterns, but this time around at least, need to beat them in one go.
Bloodborne
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I would be more inclined to replay a boss over and over until I truly knew exactly how to handle everything (such as the aforementioned parry timing) if death wasn't punished by such a long load time. It's the kind of thing I just want to practice over and over in succession, not have 1-minute gaps between attempts that could last mere seconds if they are experiments in parry timing.
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Yeah. I'm practiced from past games so I'm not dying that much at bosses. Well, the two so far anyway.
They are supposed to be fixing the load times isuse, so we'll see.
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http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/26/how-and-why-bloodborne-lost-me
this guy is hilarious lol
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@ign:
If you imagine stringing several Super Meat Boy levels together, where one mistake sends you back to the very beginning, that’s what Bloodborne felt like to me.
Hmm I guess he never played Ninja Gaiden/[Super] Ghouls n' Ghosts/Battletoads/Megaman/any remotely hard NES-era game.
It's fine if some people can't get into it. The series started out suuuuper niche and should probably remain that way if it's to keep its integrity. Demon's Souls was incredibly off-putting to a lot of people for a lot of reasons, including myself at first.
So with Bloodborne clearly being the most-hyped, practically mainstream title so far, it's not surprising that we're seeing articles like that.even the original 1987 NES Mega Man and its sequels I grew up on have checkpoints before boss fights
Oh he did play Megaman. Selective amnesia then? Or maybe he just read about Megaman and its checkpoints somewhere.
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Yeah. It's been about 8 years, but I don't remember Megaman having checkpoints. It really just seems like a long article about someone who simply can't get into the series because it's not his thing like I've seen with plenty of other users. I also like how he talks about how Souls' users wouldn't know how he feels like pretty much all Souls' veterans didn't go through some process where they got killed pretty regularly early on. To me, games like Mario and Megaman are good comparisons. They're fairly hard games where when you first play, you'll die regularly when you start playing until you get better by playing it more and therefore, start to have more fun.
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@CCC:
Oh he did play Megaman. Selective amnesia then? Or maybe he just read about Megaman and its checkpoints somewhere.
Yeah. It's been about 8 years, but I don't remember Megaman having checkpoints.
They do. Halfway through the stage (more regularly in the X series) and there's a gate before the boss.
Of course, you only have however many lives you have when you get there, and if you lose those its back to the start anyway. So yes, Megaman had checkpoints… that lasted for 2 or 3 attempts.
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Yeah. I just remember dying and having to redo the stages alot, so that's probably why I don't remember the checkpoints then. I actually haven't played the X series, though I've played Megaman 1-6.
Edit: I think I also remember it sucking because after you died, you lost whatever special weapons you used and other stuff as well in your last attempt.
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I prefer that modern games have largely done away with a lives system. Its fine to have a hard difficult area… but don't force us to replay all the hard difficult areas before it too in our many attempts to get through it. (If we WANT to redo that area, thats for a run the next game around.) Just sort of an artifact from the era where they wanted to force games to last for months rather than be beaten in a weekend.
Then there's stuff like the Prinny games or VVVVV or Meatboy where they expect you to die literally hundreds of times and checkpoint constantly and are completely unfair without an infinite lives system.
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Yeah, no, of course Mega Man has midway checkpoints. But those segments surrounding the checkpoints consist of a series of difficult platforming challenges, often with insta-death, and if you mess up you have to do that series of challenges again. The hardest Meat Boy levels are way harder than anything in Mega Man, but the average [classic 1-4] Mega Man stage is way harder than most Meat Boy levels.
My point is just that, wonky load times aside, punishment-for-death is not a novel or inherently bad concept in gaming. Just one that most modern publishers shy away from for fear of alienating anyone.
EDIT: To be clear, it's an excellent thing that the lives/continue system has largely gone extinct. Meat Boy dude Edmund McMillen wrote some excellent conceptual stuff about that in the home edition manual/artbook for Meat Boy, and Matthew Matosis has pontificated on the issue in some of his Mario reviews.
How lives were handled was definitely problematic in stuff like Ninja Gaiden, but the challenge itself and not having a checkpoint after every enemy/jump were not.On-topic EDIT: Both PS4 and BB are on their way to me in the mail :D :D :D
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Its extra funny since eventually experienced players start doing things like no heal runs or level 1 runs or "use a shitty weapon" in order to keep the challenge level up after a while… since the games really are very fair.
But most of those super experienced players got to that point after several hundred hours of playing. And that its a franchise that invites that kind of replay is the real testament to its quality.
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Well I played another 2-3 hours tonight and having a real blast. Beat the second boss and explored a bit into Old Yharnam. I actually had a really really easy time on the second boss. There was a slight hiccup but once I realized it… I guess I'll put it in spoilers.
! So it was super obvious to me right away that I had to use the music box. Since it had his name inscribed on it. What I didn't realize for 3 tries or so is that using the music box too many times accelerates his transformation into beast form. Once I noticed that, I kept him human for about half his health, used the music box strategically 2-3 times while using trees for cover, and then let him go beast. If you use the music box right as he transforms he gets stunned one final time for a LONG time. Like you can wail on him for a good 5 seconds or so. After that, I just chucked oil on him and a couple molotovs took him out instantly. Really I found this a lot easier than the first boss.
! Also, with his transformation and his allusion that I'm not brave enough to show my true face, I think the obvious implication is that hunters are somehow werewolves that got captured/transformed in some way. The opening cutscene and having a beast stat also point to this. Interesting stuff.
Oh, also I bought a couple of the other weapons. I've been playing around with the cleaver, the hammer, and the cane. So far I think the cleaver has by far the best balance between power and speed. The hammer is fun though. Strategically it can be very useful for the quick weak rapier strikes mixed with massively powerful hammer swings when appropriate. But it doesn't seem optimal on many enemies. The cane I've used the least because it's pretty weak, but the whip range is cool and it's still fast. I can see it being savage when upgraded. -
I actually seem to have quite a tough time to adjust to the BB playstyle dying tons and tons. But I'm getting better and getting a grip on the shoot parry and how to dodge into enemies. I quite haven't figured out how to get the most out of the transform combo.
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Surprisingly, I find myself slowly warming up to this game.
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Well. The BsB boss is kinda gross. Not fun to look at.
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So would it make sense to play Dark Souls first? I'm sure this game is fun and all … but it's still 60 bucks while i could play DS for 10 on PC.
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So would it make sense to play Dark Souls first? I'm sure this game is fun and all … but it's still 60 bucks while i could play DS for 10 on PC.
Play Dark Souls first and see if you like it, cheapest way to test. Despite the different combat pacing I think it's safe to say that the chance is big that if you like one you'll like the other.
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Also tiny music box girl story spoiler! Wow what a bummer :(. Gave her the brooch and found a bloodied ribbon later from the sewer pig….
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Huh. So I did a certain event the led to being in apparently the third area. Where everything is much much stronger.
Whelp, screw finishing the first area or finding the second, gotta explore that place now!
Also discovered it has a randomly generated side-dungeon feature that you can share with friends. (And apparently this was known about in advance.) Well… crap.
So would it make sense to play Dark Souls first? I'm sure this game is fun and all … but it's still 60 bucks while i could play DS for 10 on PC.
Dark Souls 2 is probably the gentlest learning curve of the games. Its not as good as DS1, but it has an actual tutorial section, and you can eventually whittle enemies down if you fail in an area enough.
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Alright, thank you. Dark Souls 2 sounds good and isn't that expensive anymore on PC either, i'll think about it.
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Those crows and their sudden lurch get me every time.
That Old Yarnam area with the turret guy was a bitch. I just tackled him off the tower, yay.
One question though, for those who might have payed more attention. From what I've understood, there's like only twelve weapons. This means I won't be discovering a more powerful hammer down the line like in the Souls games, right? Meaning I'm just supposed to keep upgrading my current weapon. I'll have to research the other weapons, but so far I'm pretty happy with the Hammer/sword. And I've got 45 Blood Stones waiting to be used. Would like to down the Starved Beast in one go.
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So would it make sense to play Dark Souls first? I'm sure this game is fun and all … but it's still 60 bucks while i could play DS for 10 on PC.
If you like, to make it somewhat easier on yourself, you can google and find a neat fan-made map that shows you what area you should be going to first (in Dark Souls 2), second, third etc. You'll do fine without it: the game closes of areas it doesn't want you to go to with doors and whatnot, but at the time of playing the game I just wanted some guidelines.
Though the game is much easier in this regard. Bloodborne is far more linear as well, I've found. Dark Souls the first one, however, was different. If you feel like fighting tons of enemies several times stronger than you, sure, go ahead, do whatever you want.
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Has anyone played Dragon's Dogma? Would you recommend it as an RPG warm-up to Bloodborne? (not really interested in the Souls games)
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@Rogues':
Has anyone played Dragon's Dogma? Would you recommend it as an RPG warm-up to Bloodborne? (not really interested in the Souls games)
Its a boring piece of crap. The story is nonexistant, the characters and quests dull, and the combat which at first appears flashy due to the bosses, is actually pretty boring, and only one of the six classes is any good. There is no skill involved, it is purely levels that get you past enemies.
For insance, a literally impossible to beat ogre becomes a piece of cake with 3 or 4 additional levels. No ammount of strategy or team customization or trying to cheat the AI will let you beat it, but get a couple levels and suddenly your damage per second is enough to just overwhelm it with no challenge at all… with no inbetween.
(Even the DLC dungeon that was "more Dark Souls like" really wasn't. Skill just won't let you beat things you shouldn't be facing, its' pure damage output based on level.)
It's a mix of Dark Souls and Dragon Age, but it doesn't meet the highpoints of either, or do anything particularly well... its just a shoddy fill in, and there's no point in getting a placeholder at this point. You'd be better off with Shadow of the Collosus for the combat, Skyrim for the exploring and customization, Dragon Age for the story, or Dark Souls for the combat and game design.
Plus, it was heavily based around an online partner sharing component, but now that the game is a couple years old that community just isn't there.
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Its a boring piece of crap. The story is shit, the characters and quests dull, and the combat which at first appears flashy due to the bosses, is actually pretty boring, and only one of the six classes is any good. There is no skill involved, it is purely levels that get you past enemies.
For insance, a literally impossible to beat ogre becomes a piece of cake with 3 or 4 additional levels. No ammount of strategy or team customization or trying to cheat the AI will let you beat it, but get a couple levels and suddenly your damage per second is enough to just overwhelm it with no challenge at all… with no inbetween.
It's a mix of Dark Souls and Dragon Age, but it doesn't meet the highpoints of either, or do anything particularly well... its just a shoddy fill in, and there's no point in getting a placeholder at this point. You'd be better off with Shadow of the Collosus for the combat, Skyrim for the exploring and customization, Dragon Age for the story, or Dark Souls for the combat and game design.
Plus, it was heavily based around an online partner sharing component, but now that the game is a couple years old that community just isn't there.
Thanks for the speedy feedback, very informative.
Before I jump into Blooborne, I was contemplating getting a game that I would use to familiarize myself with the gameplay-style of RPGs and become comfortable with, much like how I used the original Bioshock to introduce myself with FPS.
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Just started. Threaded Cane is amazing. That is all.
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I'm lost I've beaten BsB, the father, and CB any tips where a new area could be?
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I tried this game back at my brothers. Didn't come very far, but it was surprisingly fun. Normally I stay as far away from these games as I can, but now I'm almost tempted to play it. Also made this beautiful blue-skinned cartoony evil granny with red sunglasses and hair covering one of her eyes named Miss Jasper. She's glorious. Of course she has the cane.
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Discovering the 'right' path through the Forbidden Woods where you literally run straight to the boss with no danger whatsoever is probably one of my new top 10 video game memories. You get through that hornets' nest in less than a minute and technically you only need to dash once.
Amazing. I tip-toed through the place for the better part of three hours before I was able to work it out. Felt more proud of that than beating the boss!
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I'm lost I've beaten BsB, the father, and CB any tips where a new area could be?
Must be Sunday cuz it's time to go to church. Just make sure you bring your (rather expensive) handkerchief.
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I'm lost I've beaten BsB, the father, and CB any tips where a new area could be?
! Go back to the Cathedral Ward Lamp, there's a door in there that should now be unlocked for you to go through.
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That's just an optional branch though. At this point in the story it would provide some useful loot but not progress the story.
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That's just an optional branch though. At this point in the story it would provide some useful loot but not progress the story.
Yeah, I'm not really sure what the correct way is…
! I got killed and thrown in the goal. I've just been exploring that recently.
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Thanks! Found it, I appreciate the nudge staying cryptic. It's a bit surprising though that you can get to where I am and the only way to progress is getting that "handkerchief". I wonder if there really isn't another way to get to new places.
In any case that gate seemed to have opened tons of new areas. -
I bought DS 2 and played it a few hours today. And like i thought it is a lot of fun. I died like 30 times on the same enemy (Giant-Armored-Mace-Guy) and i did NOT throw the Gamepad across the room … so ... i guess that means i enjoy it. Not the dying part but the "figuring out strategies" stuff.
So i'm positive that i will buy Bloodborne after i beat this game.
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I found a picture of my Miss Jasper
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True Beauty. It's a shame you can't see her hair.I need to get this game. But then I have to buy a PS4… and a TV...
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Second place now that a transparent hand has picked me up, given me frenzy, and then dropped me to die.
And then for whatever reason, I woke up in a prison cell.
Btw, did anyone else find
! alternative Hunters Dream? That starting area, only desolate? I died about 15 times trying to land there safely
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Second place now that a transparent hand has picked me up, given me frenzy, and then dropped me to die.
And then for whatever reason, I woke up in a prison cell.
Btw, did anyone else find
! alternative Hunters Dream? That starting area, only desolate? I died about 15 times trying to land there safely
hahaha me too, took a while for me to figure out from where to fall tried jumping like 4 times.
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Ok I'm not sure if this is just me getting the game or if it's just indeed early hard boss syndrome.
But father was by far the hardest boss for me yet. I've gotten BsB, that lightning shadow dog, that white stag monster as well as the first chalice dungeon (3 bosses for each layer).Also the sound design is really damn good, getting the chills everytime I go somewhere new to the point that I prefer just to wander and kill in the zones that I already conquered. It's literally leaving your comfort zone when you go somewhere new.
The fear is back while I liked dark soul 2 quite a bit it did too much stuff I already anticipated and there wasn't really a lot of moments of uncertainty and most of them were just dealing with packs of enemies. -
That's just an optional branch though. At this point in the story it would provide some useful loot but not progress the story.
It actually can progress the story. If you drop all the way to the bottom you can find an elevator that takes you down to the other side of Cathedral Ward and lets you unlock the gates from the other side (no need to purchase the 10k key item).
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It actually can progress the story. If you drop all the way to the bottom you can find an elevator that takes you down to the other side of Cathedral Ward and lets you unlock the gates from the other side (no need to purchase the 10k key item).
Oh that's right, it does drop you off that way, yeah? I hadn't thought about that since I took the side street with the NPC first.
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Thanks! Found it, I appreciate the nudge staying cryptic. It's a bit surprising though that you can get to where I am and the only way to progress is getting that "handkerchief". I wonder if there really isn't another way to get to new places.
In any case that gate seemed to have opened tons of new areas.Foolio and Nex are both correct in that the door which opens in the chapel also can take you there. It just takes…balls and patience?
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Forbidden Woods:
! 1) Snakes, why'd it have to be snakes?
! 2) Shadow of Yharnam is kicking my ass.
! This area might be my new least favorite in any From game. But in a good way. I never thought Valley of Defilement could be topped, but damn, was getting through here a bitch. And the boss is the biggest dick of them all. -
Nex, you've probably beaten them by now but this route may come in handy:
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Can fight the last boss any time but I'm going to see if I can tackle Cainhurst or look into whatever 'the choir' is first since I have a sneaking suspicion there's no post game freedom.
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Can fight the last boss any time but I'm going to see if I can tackle Cainhurst or look into whatever 'the choir' is first since I have a sneaking suspicion there's no post game freedom.
There isn't, so you're doing the smart thing. Once you beat the final boss/make a final choice, you are automatically thrown into NG+.
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Urgh… why fromsoft have your quest to be so volatile or buggy? I can never figure out if I just missed something or if it's buggy.
But for now I assume it's a bug.
Eileen NPC quest line! Talked to Eileen in the sewers for her only to stay there forever. Opened all kind of different gates in cathedral ward area, always checked in between to see if she moved to cathedral ward. Never happened she always stayed there now I've beaten Amygdala and she vanished from the sewer spot and still isn't at the ward. Doing the castle next and see if any boss will trigger her to go to the ward.
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Urgh… why fromsoft have your quest to be so volatile or buggy? I can never figure out if I just missed something or if it's buggy.
But for now I assume it's a bug.
Eileen NPC quest line! Talked to Eileen in the sewers for her only to stay there forever. Opened all kind of different gates in cathedral ward area, always checked in between to see if she moved to cathedral ward. Never happened she always stayed there now I've beaten Amygdala and she vanished from the sewer spot and still isn't at the ward. Doing the castle next and see if any boss will trigger her to go to the ward.
Bad news…
! If you've beaten Rom, the Voc Spider already, next time you enter the Grand Cathedral she's going to attack you. It seems you have to complete her questline before you beat Rom. Also. Yeah. Her quest line is the buggy one of the game, which is annoying, considering you need to complete it (or kill her) in order to get the rune needed to join the Hunter of Hunters covenant.
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@The:
Bad news…
! If you've beaten Rom, the Voc Spider already, next time you enter the Grand Cathedral she's going to attack you. It seems you have to complete her questline before you beat Rom. Also. Yeah. Her quest line is the buggy one of the game, which is annoying, considering you need to complete it (or kill her) in order to get the rune needed to join the Hunter of Hunters covenant.
Haven't beaten that one yet I can confirm it's a bug though the NPC is stuck under the ground(I can target her with L3) at the place in the sewers for me. Dunno how she clipped through there. Not sure what to do.
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I had a weird Eileen thing too that I think was a bug. I guess I'll put it in spoiler tags
! So I encountered her in the sewers early on, but then despite all of the triggers I heard about she never showed up in Cathedral Ward. But the Oedon lamp did stop working and when I went there, the other hunter was there and surprise attacked me. I ended up dying. Then I went back because I figured fuck it, even if Eileen is gone at least I can probably get this guy's drops. The second time I got there, Eileen was already there fighting him XD. So I won that time and she gave me a gesture as a reward. But I didn't get the gesture you're evidently supposed to get for talking to her before the fight.
! So like… maybe I'm still on the Eileen questline? I have no idea. I guess I'll find out once I beat Rom. I just got to him and he's giving me quite some trouble at my level. Like... on paper it's pretty easy stuff but for the life of me I cannot find a way to consistently dodge his ice spam attack and it's really frustrating. I can generally get him to like 30% health no issue and then I get cheaply spammed to death.
On another note, I'm pretty sure I've been inefficiently tackling and exploring areas, but at least I have fun doing it. I never really know if I'm supposed to be somewhere or not. Like, if there's another intended order or it's just a natural difficulty increase, or if the area is even mandatory to begin with. Like, I've played open-world games and stuff but this is the first time I honestly couldn't tell you if a single one of the bosses I've fought was even required to beat the game.But I have all 4 warp stones with entries at this point and it's like okay, I guess when I finish one area that seems to be a dead end I'll try the next on my list haha. Oh! Also! So I've been looking at some boss videos for bosses that I've already defeated, and call me crazy but I swear that when I fought some of those bosses they were WAY WAY more aggressive than in the videos. I see strategies where I go "if I tried that I'd have been dead 7 times already," and I say that because the dude will just stand around charging up strong attacks and the bosses just chill there not attacking. I mean I even saw a guy take on a boss at over 20 insight and still had much easier-seeming attack patterns from the boss. And it's not something like "oh he has cooldown after that attack." I definitely understand their attack patterns. The one guy who pisses me off the most is the guy where his boss strategy in every video is to use the axe in 2-hand mode and spam charge attacks. How does he win??
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Range abuse, long reach weapons are the magic of this game :D.
Whips, 2h axe and especially holy blade are just so damn good as long as you have space to move around.
Been kind of breezing through with the holy blade, boss wise, only father and the castle boss + CB(cause I wasn't used to combat yet) gave me trouble(as in took several tries, it got close at a few others). On that end Bloodborne has my least favorite system when It comes to healing.It's way too overabundant and powerful. I still like Dark Soul's refresh Estus at camp only the most, with limited Estus flasks.(I do understand though that this wouldn't fit with trying to get the players be more aggresive in BB, still I feel like the overabundance makes people not really make full use of the regain system)
I think people that feel a 100% comfortable will do stake driver runs that weapons is tons of fun but you have to get so up in the enemies face it's scary, kind of.
Have been exploring the same way just aimlessly wandering around unlocking secret areas by chance. And when I'm sick of it I do a Chalice dungeon. Terribly inefficient and time consuming but dunno I have tons of fun that way.
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I only did the first Chalice dungeon so far. I have my Holy Blade at +6 but haven't really had a chance to exploit it on a boss yet. In range mode it consumes stamina like crazy. Honestly I'm comfortable with close combat and one of my favorite weapons is still the Saw Cleaver whenever range isn't crucial. It has pretty impressive DPS while consuming little stamina. It just has a useless secondary mode.
I'm also torn about the Arcane stat because I have some gems to add fire/bolt to weapons which would be really cool, and also some items with high Arcane requirement that would finally give me a way to use up bullets (so sick of being at max and not being able to pick them up). But at the same time, weapons hit so damn hard when I go for P.Atk…
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Yeah the Holy Blade becomes only really kind of smooth to fight with in 2h mode around 30 endurance + I have a rune that raises stamina(I think 10%+?).
Saw cleaver seems to be the most balanced but I have to admit it kind of feels weird to me because it's so balanced.I really just fall into the play style of either chipping away at enemies or sniping for moments to go with big strikes. Mixing this style just doesn't seem to work for me. So I never felt like I was using the weapon right or rather that I could get more out of a different weapon.
But yeah the distinct move sets weapons philosophy of Bloodborne, I really like it. In Dark Souls you had less distinct move sets but tons of variations of weapons using the same move set. It wasn't as bad as it sound cause just upgrading to a better weapon was fun too. But I think having fewer weapons being distinct as possible feels better. That said I wish we had more of them cause finding new stuff in general fells rarer than in previous entries. Especially armor wise.
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Like, if there's another intended order or it's just a natural difficulty increase, or if the area is even mandatory to begin with. Like, I've played open-world games and stuff but this is the first time I honestly couldn't tell you if a single one of the bosses I've fought was even required to beat the game.
Having done everything but Loran and Pthumerekhsolihscuceoucewiudowh Chalice Dungeons, I think that's my biggest criticism.
! It feels like so much is tacked on to 50% of the game. Exploring Central Yharnam, Old Yharnam and the Cathredral Ward and the Forbidden Woods (yeah The Choir too) was awesome. I mean, REALLY awesome. So much so that my criticism here doesn't even hold weight.
! But truth be told, MUCH of Yharnam is the same general 'theme'. That goes for Central, Old, Cathedral, Choir and Unseen. Same architecture, same general design. The first place in the game that feels different from them is Forbidden Woods. Cainhurst is certainly different and so is the nightmare but…they're also completely disjointed from the 'hub world'.Dark Soul's brilliance was that you went smoothly from hellish undergound landscapes to dank flooded cities to twilight villages. Here it's Yharnam and, well…pretty much Yharnam for the most part.
Combine that with, as Foolio suggested, you actually only need to fight something like 8/9 bosses to clear the story and it feels a bit like they ran out of ideas how to connect the story seemlessly with the concepts they wanted to explore.
Like when I got to the college I was like, "Holy shit, this is gonna be awesome! Bet it's gonna take me FOREVER to get through....wait wut....you just run through?"
! That was followed by Unseen which you pretty much have to run through. FOLLOWED BY NIGHTMARE WHICH YOU ALSO HAVE TO RUN THROUGH.
Sure, I was able to revist them later and explore but I pretty much had to dash through the latter chunk of the game by design. Contrast that with Forbidden Woods which was AMAZING to tip-toe through.
Anyway, I think I'm just mostly upset because I found something to dislike about an otherwise completely enjoyable game. But due to the similar nature of so much of it, I don't think it can ultimately surpass Dark Souls on my favs and I totally expected it to.
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The sameness of the environments is getting to me as well, actually. Is it bad that I'm also kind of put off by how nonsensical the city layout is? Just these massive stretches of weird streets and buildings with tombstones everywhere. The woods were indeed a nice change of scenery. But I'm not seeing much difference overall. I did get to Nightmare but I bailed because there was a lot of murder going on. Also of all the annoying stuff that can kill you I think poison water is my least favorite.