Once upon a time there was a boy by the name of Akaino, this little boy had a marine he looked up to even though the marine was good at is job he was very kindhearted and some what of a slacker. One day while the marine came home to visit is family a group of pirates were making trouble in the down, the good marine beat them up but decided to have mercy on them when they begged him and so he let them go. As this kind hearted marine turned to greet young Akiano who was yelling is name one of the pirate shot him in is back, with is last breath the young marine soldier ask young Akiano to grow into a strong marine. From that day forth Akaino swore to be a good marine, never be a slacker like is hero and will always follow orders to every letter and thus the legend of magma fist began….to be continued.
Chapter 780: "The Heart's Curse"
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Pretty sure he did not considered them fellow marines at the time, if you are talking about Coby the Mutinier and Random Deserter Guy.
It's not like he doesn't live his beliefs; if anything, he is actually a lot more truthful to them then the supposed good marines, because he doesn't need to sideline himself to allow pirates to do his job for him. He throws himself into toughest combat times and times again during the war and he singlehandedly turned the failure into succes.
You know what I think is significant? As far as we know, Coby is still a marine. Yeah, he had a freakout moment. But as it was happening, as the future fleet admiral of the marines, the head of the entire military, was about to kill him, he was saved by Shanks. And then later, this same marine, who according to (our own interpretation based on real-life) military law, could and should be punished as a deserter, was allowed to stay in the marines, very presumably with his current rank intact.
Even after trying to kill him, Sakazuki later allowed Coby to stay, acknowledging Coby's mistake and Coby's dream. When the fleet admiral tries to kill you, and then after he doesn't, allows you to stay, can you really call him a monster? Sure, outside of Film Z, we don't know what's going on with Coby right now. But considering the degree to which Oda is involved with the movies these days, would he really allow that scene to be in the film if Coby had been kicked out for insubordination? And whether he was or wasn't, Akainu still did NOT kill the poor kid.
In the American Civil War, both Lincoln and Davis pardoned deserters of their respective sides. It's not so unusual for the head of a major military force to acknowledge what happens at the very bottom of that force, especially if they were personally involved in it. Sakazuki did the same. And after nearly being killed by the fleet admiral, Coby still stayed. Those facts are pretty interesting. Granted, when we actually see these characters post-timeskip, the facts may be different, but as far as we know today, this is the truth.
I dunno, I'm not trying to make some big point or anything. It's just interesting. I can't help but cheer on the marines whenever they appear, you know?
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@Bittersweet:
I can't help but cheer on the marines whenever they appear, you know?
Did you cheer when Akainu murdered the civilians? :ninja:
Sure… from a cold, detached, militaristic point of view of his actions could be considered as for the greater good... but where does it stop? How many more would he have been willing to kill? What an awful world the people live in. The government can execute ordinary citizens for something they might be doing and pirates might kill them just because.
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Why were people talking about medics in the war?
Who won the war - Marines
Sub categories;
- Who won the most useful medic on the field - Whitebeard pirates
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True. He shows way too much human emotions to his fellow marines for him to be a true psychopath or one note character.
I know some people wanted to tie bonsai to him being totaly extremist, because he supposedly cut too many branches, but I will have you note that there are bonsais created in such style. It's called literati, or bunjin-gi, if I recall correctly.
Well, I would like to think that Oda went for a little bit of depth with the guy, instead of making him as shallow as it gets.
That was really a thing? That's one of the stupidest things I've heard on trying to make assumptions about a character. Well, at least they didn't try to use the elephant.:ninja:
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Did you cheer when Akainu murdered the civilians? :ninja:
Sure… from a cold, detached, militaristic point of view of his actions could be considered as for the greater good... but where does it stop? How many more would he have been willing to kill? What an awful world the people live in. The government can execute ordinary citizens for something they might be doing and pirates might kill them just because.
Hah, of course I didn't cheer then! I don't like it anymore than Kuzan, or Smoker, or Tashigi would. Like I said, Akainu and the world government are unquestionably antagonists, and I'd never argue otherwise. Its just more gray than it's obligated to be, and I appreciate that. For all of the Bellamies and Arlongs of the world, there are Spandams and Akainus. Coby and Bell-mère wanted to join the marines to protect people from pirates (pirates that threatened, or took, the lives of their loved ones), Robin and Franky became pirates to protect people from the world government (the world government that threatened, or took, the lives of their loved ones), and Sabo joined the revolutionaries because he thought the whole thing was crap. I just appreciate that it's dealt with in a more intelligent, more thoughtful way than just "good guys good bad guys bad pirates good cuz freedom."
I'm rooting for the Straw Hats too, and I understand what Sakazuki, what Kuzan, what Saul, and what Robin thought about Ohara. I know where I stand, which is the place the reader is encouraged to stand. But I like that Oda did not make the Sakazuki or Kuzan stance un-understandable, or completely unsympathetic.
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I see Sakazuki as someone who likes strong willed and upcoming strong guys, as long your not on the side of what he considers evil then he will actually care for you.
I mean even Sakazuki admitted he liked Roger(the way he gave the speech of Roger being PK you can tell he somewhat admired Roger) a strong guy who accomplished so many things but ended up being a pirate.
So he might fight Kuzan but he still knows Kuzan is a strong guy who does things for good, so he probably can't see such a strong guy go to waste.
Fujitora is another good guy who is powerful and it will only make his marine more powerful, Sakazuki doesn't seem like the type that wants to pass his absolute Justice to others and he also seems like the type who will follow every command of whoever is ranking above him, so yeah I will say Lucci and Sakazuki are kinda alike.
Big MoM ate - 2012
CC for nakama.
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Akainu is actually completely unsympathetic. That was the whole point of the first thing we see him do be him blowing up a refugee ship on flimsy justification.
Yeah sure he'll probably get a sad story in the vein of Arlong about what makes a zealot, but at the end of the day he'll still be nothing more than a fanatical fascist attack dog.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I mean even Sakazuki admitted he liked Roger(the way he gave the speech of Roger being PK you can tell he somewhat admired Roger) a strong guy who accomplished so many things but ended up being a pirate.
…When did this ever happen.
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I mean even Sakazuki admitted he liked Roger
The guy who says that he despises pirates constantly never admitted to this.
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@Cyan:
When did this ever happen.
When he was taunting Ace about how Whitebeard is a failure.
Big MoM ate - 2012
CC for nakama.
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When he was taunting Ace about how Whitebeard is a failure.
…He just said "YO WHITEBEARD IS A LOSER" and then Ace turned around and got killed.
Roger was never part of that "conversation".
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Nah, Roger was mentioned too.
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But nowhere did he admire him.
He hates Roger, Dragon, and their bloodlines.
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@Galaxy:
Nah, Roger was mentioned too.
! http://img.mangastream.to/manga/one-piece/573/One_Piece_573_14-15.png
Oh yeah and another mark against Akainu here: not once does he mention any actual crimes Luffy or Ace committed.
What's making him pursue them so relentlessly? The crimes of their fathers, nothing more.
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That would make no sense.
Unless Fujitora decides to help out Dofla and take care of former king and everyone helping him, which would still make no sense, considering his decision making process.
I honestly don't know. Shonen (and by extension One Piece) logic would dictate they won't interfere so that Luffy can have his one-on-one with the final Arc villain.
Conflict with the marines would be non-sensical. Then again, Oda evidently enjoys making Fujitora do non-sensical stuff, so who knows?
I just used the Marines as an example to drum up discussion. I'm confident they won't interfere with Luffy and Doflamingo, but they have to have some kind of plan. Oda wouldn't have them all move out just to off-panel their actions and say they are doing something… At least I hope he wouldn't.
They could be rallying the citizens to restore faith in King Riku and boot out all of Doflamingo's grunts. Just another example there, but as for me I really don't have any thoughts at the moment on where they are heading.
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@Cyan:
Oh yeah and another mark against Akainu here: not once does he mention any actual crimes Luffy or Ace committed.
What's making him pursue them so relentlessly? The crimes of their fathers, nothing more.
Yes true he is using the crimes of their fathers as the main reason to kill em off but the path the two has chosen is also part of the reason.
Big MoM ate - 2012
CC for nakama.
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I just used the Marines as an example to drum up discussion. I'm confident they won't interfere with Luffy and Doflamingo, but they have to have some kind of plan. Oda wouldn't have them all move out just to off-panel their actions and say they are doing something… At least I hope he wouldn't.
They could be rallying the citizens to restore faith in King Riku and boot out all of Doflamingo's grunts. Just another example there, but as for me I really don't have any thoughts at the moment on where they are heading.
I'm sure the marines aren't going to interfere in any meaningful way, per Fujitora's plan to discredit the Shichibukai. Hah, although Darth and Ned_Gutters have a lot more to say about that than me! Whether they do something major or not, they're going to come out of this looking much better than they did the last time a kingship was in the balance; at least this time, they're helping citizens instead of tacitly supporting the oh-so-heroic usurper. I ~assume~ that's what they're doing now, but goodness knows I could be wrong.
What I'm wondering is what the world government is going to make of the situation after it's all over with. In Alabasta, the Nefertaris, Kohza and Toto, and the palace staff knew who was responsible for kicking Croccers out. They lied to the government about it, but didn't look any bit the worse for it afterwords. However, the regular citizens of the country probably all thought that Smoker was their savior.
But in Dressrosa, things have gone too far, via Luffy, Zoro, and certainly God Usopp, to cover up what's happened. Though I don't think that the Riku family is going to criticize the marines in this incident, are they going to allow the Straw Hats' role to be covered up? The citizens of Dressrosa and representatives of other nations via the colosseum all know who's responsible for the birdcage and their (presumbably going to happen) rescue. Fujitora may be personally rooting for the Straw Hats, either for convenience or genuine appreciation, but what about the marines or the world government as a whole? If Dressrosa is happy about what happened (what's happening? augh, tense), how can the government respond?
Ooh, I can't wait for Luffy to whop Doflamingo so we can get to the Reverie!
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Yes true he is using the crimes of their fathers as the main reason to kill em off but the path the two has chosen is also part of the reason.
If I call myself a murder without killing anyone does that make me a murder?we all now puffy isnt really a pirate he just defends himself from marines and defends the innocent, something the marines should be doing
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luffy openly declared war on the government
he's at the very least a dangerous terrorist operating under the banner of a pirate
Set Art by Daily Rowlet -
luffy openly declared war on the government
he's at the very least a dangerous terrorist operating under the banner of a pirateI wouldn't call him a terrorist at all, sure he declared war on them, but see my previous example. Just saying it doesn't mean much. If you look at his actions, he just wanted to get a friend back. One who was taken just bc she knew history. Who are the bad guys there?
Also can you not quote people? I've seen like three posters(maybe all you maybe different) directly respond to people but not quote them
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Set Art by Daily Rowlet
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I know this is not the thread for it but it is in some way relatable to previous discussion. Here goes I have never read a Dragon Ball Manga neither have I participated in any forum where it is concern, so I would like to get others opinion on this, when persons realize that no good guy die for good because they would get resurrected by the Dragon Balls, was there constant complaint that the author is using death as a Troup to get persons to buy into the tension of an arc. Did people complain that Dragon Ball lacks tension or was it something that persons just come to the realization that it is part of the series.
Personally for me I wasn't even thinking about it that way when I use to run home from school to catch an episode, even thoughsometimes I got mad because we would have a lot of talking in between fights then the narrator will be like "next time on dragon ball z will goku defeat cell". I was always excited I didn't give a dam about the dragon ball thing just wanted to see some action my only concern was that it took too long for shit to go down. I am really interested to hear others opinion on this since dragon ball was so successful despite the "no one is going to stay dead fake tension thing" -
don't know if law is going to die
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@Bittersweet:
Ooh, I can't wait for Luffy to whop Doflamingo so we can get to the Reverie!
! Luffy is gonna get all Mikata Robot on Doffy's ass.
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Has it been already mentioned that the.shrinking birdcage will break the islands ground or at least leave scars all over the place? That's assuming the strings end in the rock.
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@Cyan:
Oh yeah and another mark against Akainu here: not once does he mention any actual crimes Luffy or Ace committed.
What's making him pursue them so relentlessly? The crimes of their fathers, nothing more.
No, the fact that they are their blood, which is differeent.
Besides, blame Oda for inheritence of Will being actual thing. If anything, Akainu is just savvy here; he goes after two men that have immense potential to become great enemies of the goverment while they are too weak to oppose him.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I wouldn't call him a terrorist at all, sure he declared war on them, but see my previous example. Just saying it doesn't mean much. If you look at his actions, he just wanted to get a friend back. One who was taken just bc she knew history. Who are the bad guys there?
Love how you guys are always so nonchalant about what Robin knows.
"She just knows history, guys!"
Of couse, history that allows her to use the local equivalent of nuclear weapons seemingly at will and could lead to a world war.
Luffy maimed thousands of officers, and was largely responsible for the for the worst breakout in the history of the world. Saying he is some paragon of goodness is overdoing it.
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@Cyan:
Akainu is actually completely unsympathetic. That was the whole point of the first thing we see him do be him blowing up a refugee ship on flimsy justification.
So I guess Blackbeard is actually completly sympathetic character, huh?
@Cyan:
Yeah sure he'll probably get a sad story in the vein of Arlong about what makes a zealot, but at the end of the day he'll still be nothing more than a fanatical fascist attack dog.
… And I can do nothing but repeat after my predecessors...
@George:
It would seem that, as used, the word 'Fascism' is almost entirely meaningless.
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Sure… from a cold, detached, militaristic point of view of his actions could be considered as for the greater good... but where does it stop? How many more would he have been willing to kill?
Probably just all of pirates. And then he would hold eternal watch for them to never appear again.
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… And I can do nothing but repeat after my predecessors...
I don't quite follow you on that predecessor part.
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I wouldn't call him a terrorist at all, sure he declared war on them, but see my previous example. Just saying it doesn't mean much. If you look at his actions, he just wanted to get a friend back. One who was taken just bc she knew history. Who are the bad guys there?
Come on now, Luffy didn't "just say it". Enies Lobby being destroyed isn't really SH's fault but even without the Buster Call it would have been wrecked.
After that, Luffy punched Tenryuubito and escaped and after that he broke into Impel Down and freed some of the most dangerous prisoners. Only to join the pirates's side again in Marineford. Where he displayed Conqueror Haki.Can we really say Akainu wanted him dead for his father's sins at this point? Sorry but that's silly talk. Even Garp said Luffy's connection with Dragon hardly matters after all he's done on his own, or something along those lines.
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I have to wonder, if the Marines were the ones we followed, where we saw stuff more from Smokers perspective or a completely different marine, would we see Luffy and company in the light we do now?
Obviously, they aren't terrible people (especially compared to other crews), but perspective always shapes our views of things. We see everything from the perspective of the Straw Hats, so we view things from that perspective. Luffy and the rest rampage through a heavily fortified base to save a friend. We celebrate because we've been following them the whole time, and the Marines are on of their antagonists. If you look at it from the Marines side, most of the people there were suddenly hurt or killed, because these Pirates decided to come and infiltrate a base for one person, and because of them coming in, a buster call was made on the island. Pretty sure a number of families lost a parent that day. Still love the arc and root for them, but when you look at it that way, kind of makes the Straw Hats look like bad guys.
If Ace wasn't the one to die by Akainu, or at least had no connection to Luffy, we wouldn't look at him like we do. Sure, he killed a deserter and made Squarda attack White Beard through a lie, but I think most people hate him for killing Ace, since it had that effect on Luffy. If we looked at it from the Marines side, the man killed someone that had a high bounty, and had potential to become a worse villain. They would see it as helping people so he wouldn't be a menace to society.
Take what you will of it, but One Piece does a nice job of having some grey areas to an extent, unlike some other series.
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@The:
I have to wonder, if the Marines were the ones we followed, where we saw stuff more from Smokers perspective or a completely different marine, would we see Luffy and company in the light we do now?
Obviously, they aren't terrible people (especially compared to other crews), but perspective always shapes our views of things. We see everything from the perspective of the Straw Hats, so we view things from that perspective. Luffy and the rest rampage through a heavily fortified base to save a friend. We celebrate because we've been following them the whole time, and the Marines are on of their antagonists. If you look at it from the Marines side, most of the people there were suddenly hurt or killed, because these Pirates decided to come and infiltrate a base for one person, and because of them coming in, a buster call was made on the island. Pretty sure a number of families lost a parent that day. Still love the arc and root for them, but when you look at it that way, kind of makes the Straw Hats look like bad guys.
If Ace wasn't the one to die by Akainu, or at least had no connection to Luffy, we wouldn't look at him like we do. Sure, he killed a deserter and made Squarda attack White Beard through a lie, but I think most people hate him for killing Ace, since it had that effect on Luffy. If we looked at it from the Marines side, the man killed someone that had a high bounty, and had potential to become a worse villain. They would see it as helping people so he wouldn't be a menace to society.
Take what you will of it, but One Piece does a nice job of having some grey areas to an extent, unlike some other series.
I agree. One Piece has always been about right/wrong not being as straightforward as people claim them to be.
In the start it was "stealing from pirates", "lying for a purpose", "feeding your enemy", etc.
Later it became "rebelling for a friend", "killing innocents to save more innocents", etc.Over the years, One Piece's storyline has become more and more gray.
This also fits with Rayleigh's words about the final decision Straw Hats will have to make about the World Government and how it might change after seeing the world.
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@Daz:
Sakazuki personally apologized to Fujitora for all the confusing orders at Dressrosa. And spared Aokiji when he really didn't have to.
Also, Oda felt comfortable giving him a cover page of cutting a bonsai tree in a totally not-evil way. Akainu gets a bum rap as "1D Xealot Evilman", but theres a human being in there too.
You never know he may get a bit of a redemption arc before the end of One Piece, or perhaps he will sacrifice himself in some way.
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Just for the record, he was willing to kill coby if it wasn't for shanks.
So from now on we will celebrate Saint sakazuki each and every March 23rd or at least we could talk about akainu in the next nakama thread.
"I'm simply an accident. Why take it all so seriously?"
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Just for the record, he was willing to kill coby if it wasn't for shanks.
So from now on we will celebrate Saint sakazuki each and every March 23rd or at least we could talk about akainu in the next nakama thread.
Just for the record Coby placed himself between Akainu and a pirate he's been trying to kill. He's killed more innocent people for less.
Why the forced sarcasm?
Coby also stood before Luffy, who knocked him out mericlessly. What an evil brute.
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@The:
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Pretty sure a number of families lost a parent that day.
...You might forget this:
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If it weren't for Shanks Coby would have bitten the dust. All he wanted was to spare lifes os marine officers but that wasn't of Akainus interest.And for the Enis Lobby Arc. The WG arrested Nico Robin because she's able to read a certain language!? wtf?
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You might forget this:
! [qimg]http://i20.mangapanda.com/one-piece/579/one-piece-1263525.jpg[/qimg]
If it weren't for Shanks Coby would have bitten the dust. All he wanted was to spare lifes os marine officers but that wasn't of Akainus interest.And for the Enis Lobby Arc. The WG arrested Nico Robin because she's able to read a certain language!? wtf?
More marines would have lost their lives but so would numerous other pirates. Only time would be able to tell who was right. Coby broke the chain of command and interrupted Akainu in performing his duty. He's killed people for less.
Don't get the Coby example. Is it because he's a relevant character that Akainu is more evil for wanting to kill him? To Akainu he was just a nameless marine bothering him.
And in the end Akainu stopped, didn't he? Kizaru, on the other hand, still kept going.
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Just for the record Coby placed himself between Akainu and a pirate he's been trying to kill. He's killed more innocent people for less.
Why the forced sarcasm?
Coby also stood before Luffy, who knocked him out mericlessly. What an evil brute.
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@bold: Not saying you're wrong or anything, I agree with your point. But there is a difference between attacking an enemy and attacking an ally. Luffy and Coby were, for all intents and purposes, enemies in that war, one was a pirate, the other was a marine. That's entirely different than Akainu, a marine, attacking Coby, a marine as well.
Spoiler:
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You might forget this:
! http://i20.mangapanda.com/one-piece/579/one-piece-1263525.jpg
If it weren't for Shanks Coby would have bitten the dust. All he wanted was to spare lifes os marine officers but that wasn't of Akainus interest.And for the Enis Lobby Arc. The WG arrested Nico Robin because she's able to read a certain language!? wtf?
As much as I hate anyone who oppressed Robin, saying that she could just read a language is ignoring the capabilities of the said language.
Robin was a living time bomb, only much more dangerous. Anyone who doesn't know her intentions has a genuine reason to be afraid of her existence.
If someone in my neighborhood buys a lot of Uranium, I would be terrified of him. And I won't really be satisfied at hearing, "This is just for research purposes".
Robin was very dangerous and could lead to the end of the One Piece world as we know it. The government had all the reason to arrest her.And you are blaming the guy who is continuing the war more than the one who started it?
Akainu's sacrifice of the injured marines to eliminate WB pirates was definitely overkill.
But Luffy actually started such an event in Enies Lobby. White-beard did the same at Marineford.
Both Luffy and White-beard cared more about their friends than thousands of Marine soldiers who put their life at risk trying to maintain peace in the world.
Is it wrong? I'm not even sure myself.
Any human would try protect his close ones. Does it justify ruthless behavior on others? Everyone will have different opinions. -
As much as I hate anyone who oppressed Robin, saying that she could just read a language is ignoring the capabilities of the said language.
Robin was a living time bomb, only much more dangerous. Anyone who doesn't know her intentions has a genuine reason to be afraid of her existence.
If someone in my neighborhood buys a lot of Uranium, I would be terrified of him. And I won't really be satisfied at hearing, "This is just for research purposes".
Robin was very dangerous and could lead to the end of the One Piece world as we know it. The government had all the reason to arrest her.And you are blaming the guy who is continuing the war more than the one who started it?
Akainu's sacrifice of the injured marines to eliminate WB pirates was definitely overkill.
But Luffy actually started such an event in Enies Lobby. White-beard did the same at Marineford.
Both Luffy and White-beard cared more about their friends than thousands of Marine soldiers who put their life at risk trying to maintain peace in the world.
Is it wrong? I'm not even sure myself.
Any human would try protect his close ones. Does it justify ruthless behavior on others? Everyone will have different opinions.Your "neighbor example" is quite incorrect.
You should put it like this to be equal to Robin's situtation:
My neighbor has studied perticle physics. We should put him to jail because with his knowledge he could create a nuclear bomb or put plans in the internet. -
You might forget this:
! http://i20.mangapanda.com/one-piece/579/one-piece-1263525.jpg
If it weren't for Shanks Coby would have bitten the dust. All he wanted was to spare lifes os marine officers but that wasn't of Akainus interest.And for the Enis Lobby Arc. The WG arrested Nico Robin because she's able to read a certain language!? wtf?
Not saying the marines didn't have any blame either, but was trying to make a point about another perspective. And while I think Robin shouldn't be killed just because she has the potential to do something bad, the Straw Hats going to the facility to create an all out havoc isn't the best thing either.
It would be like someone being arrested for being a danger to society, and being locked up in a government facility. Instead of trying to appeal, you decide to go in guns a blazing. Sure, you might get some corrupt higher ups, but you also effected many low ranking people who are just doing what they are told, not knowing anything else.
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Just for the record Coby placed himself between Akainu and a pirate he's been trying to kill. He's killed more innocent people for less.
Yeah, you are right, I just felt Coby could be someway more effective being part of the story from the very beginning. His moment, also had this special Tienanmen feeling to be forgotten.
Why the forced sarcasm?
Cause I'm never going to get used to some way of thinking. You know, some arguments may be politely exposed and well written but I still can't stand it. You can read it like I hate fascism in disguise.
It's a problem of mine and I shouldn't let that bother other readers but sometimes I bite my tongue, other times unfortunately I let some of my disagreement slip out. -
@bold: Not saying you're wrong or anything, I agree with your point. But there is a difference between attacking an enemy and attacking an ally. Luffy and Coby were, for all intents and purposes, enemies in that war, one was a pirate, the other was a marine. That's entirely different than Akainu, a marine, attacking Coby, a marine as well.
Well, not as far as Akainu was concerned, I think. The moment Coby decided to stop him, he became an enemy.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Cause I'm never going to get used to some way of thinking. You know, some arguments may be politely exposed and well written but I still can't stand it. You can read it like I hate fascism in disguise.
It's a problem of mine and I shouldn't let that bother other readers but sometimes I bite my tongue, other times unfortunately I let some of my disagreement slip out.Well, I'm not so much of a fan of Akainu, but I always try to find redeeming qualities in characters (or in real people). We saw very little of Akainu's life and it was always in situations where a smallest thing could decide the fate of the world. I'm just leaving the possibility there's a good reason why he's so desperate to follow orders without leaving anything to chance.
Anyway, could be something not far from the mock-backstory Riquelme wrote several pages back. Only more tragic. Or he's just a psycho.
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Your "neighbor example" is quite incorrect.
You should put it like this to be equal to Robin's situtation:
My neighbor has studied perticle physics. We should put him to jail because with his knowledge he could create a nuclear bomb or put plans in the internet.I would have considered the two cases similar if Robin actually just wanted to learn Poneglyph. As in, I know how to read Poneglyph but I am not gonna read anything dangerous.
No matter how much Particle physics someone has studied, as long as he doesn't get any equipment, he can't do much. Just like Oharans' ability to read the Poneglyphs would have been harmless if there were no dangerous Poneglyphs to read or if they weren't trying to find out the Poneglyphs.
Robin, just as other Oharans, was actively searching for the Poneglyphs, some of which contained information to resurrect Ancient Weapons.While my example wasn't exactly like the situation either, it all boiled down to possesing the ability to build/resurrect a WMD.
Robin could have told Crocodile the location of Pluton. How would that have ended?
There is no way for the Government to be sure that Robin won't share her knowledge with others when all the people of Ohara were hell-bent on finding, storing and sharing all the information.
Just one wrong decision from Robin's side could have led to enormous loss of lives.
While the government hunting down an 8 year old girl was not a great decision, it isn't without reason. -
As much as we should try to find redeeming factors in people some people lack any sort of human decency and cause human misery just because they can or like Akainu they are self righteous pricks who care about the letter of the law but not the spirit.
If the government really cared about justice they could have pursued Robin to use her knowledge for good and pursue on the right path. But that is not what happened because the scholars of Ohara were only interested in the history and never wanted the secrets of the ancient weapons. In fact it was the government itself who was interested in those weapons when persuaded. One of the arguments is that they could use the weapons to wipe out piracy. In other words they care more about their power than the actual safety of the world.
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As much as we should try to find redeeming factors in people some people lack any sort of human decency and cause human misery just because they can or like Akainu they are self righteous pricks who care about the letter of the law but not the spirit.
If the government really cared about justice they could have pursued Robin to use her knowledge for good and pursue on the right path. But that is not what happened because the scholars of Ohara were only interested in the history and never wanted the secrets of the ancient weapons. In fact it was the government itself who was interested in those weapons when persuaded. One of the arguments is that they could use the weapons to wipe out piracy. In other words they care more about their power than the actual safety of the world.
Spandam and Spandine are the ones who want the weapons, the elders were just "yeah, bring those here, I'll just prepare this bonfire for no reason!"
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@The:
I've heard people think that Oda throws in all this stuff, even if it's not straw hat related, because they think that Oda won't be able to write another Manga after this one (health reasons and probably once it's done and over, he will be well enough off that he could retire).
I did like Skypeae actually, though not my favorite arc. I can see where people don't like certain aspects of it, but I like the idea that not everything that is done revolves around the Straw Hats. Yes, they do end up saving the day, but these things were happening before they were around, and they fight despite having little or no involvement. Really, if we want to say what arcs the crew had actual stake in, it would be Enes Lobby (since one of their crew members were takes), and FI (Luffy owed Jimbei), and Impel Down and War (though that was just Luffy). Alabasta had them helping Vivi before they really became friends, Skypea (Just came in to conflict), Thriller Bark (I guess they had a stake with needing to get shadows), Punk Hazard (Nami wanted to help the kids), and Dressrosa (More because of Law). So its back and forth on how much they really come in at.
As for the whole argument about the moral debate stuff, all factions seem to be a mix. You have certain crews that are outright evil, some ambiguous, and some good. Akainu is a bit of a hard one. When I first read through the series, I hated him because it was the whole absolute justice thing. However, when I think about it and having seen the world, black and white doesn't cut it. Yes, he did a terrible thing, but he did it because he thought it was right. Absolute is on the extreme of a side, where you only adhere to that rule. In certain cases, such as religious extremists and other stuff, nothing good comes from it. In this case, it's a bit harder, especially with limited information.
Akainu is a Fleet Admiral, but what we've seen from this arc, it seems even he is kept from certain secrets. What about when he was a vice-admiral in the flash back? Safe to assume he knew a lot less, and was at most told a buster call happened when something needed to be contained. In his mind, it didn't matter what it was, but the system said that nothing could escape. Morals are not a question in his case, so no survivors could be allowed, less whatever was there is spread out and causes more problems.
Is it the best action? No. But with all the stuff that happens in a Buster Call, there was no time to stop what was going on, especially in his lower rank. So for him, it was kill everyone to make sure the fire died there. By the time they could question the people and make sure, someone could get away and start spreading whatever the problem was. I doubt at his position he was told what was going on. From Kuzans reaction, seemed he didn't know what it was about either.
So Akainu's thinking is a dangerous one, by thinking Justice in absolute, and what he did was not good. However, in some ways, there is justification, as little as there is.
I got nothing to add on what you said in response to my post. As for the moral debate? Akainu is evil, but believes he is doing it for the greater good. So he might be either Lawful evil or even chaotic good
He does despicable things but he does so because of his "absolute justice", so he doesn't do it for evil motivations.hey, if Skypiea was dragged out you gotta create a whole new word for Dressrosa. And the way you keep using "Sky island" instead of "Skypiea" make me think that you've never read it, like many of its detractors, sadly.
I did read it. I've read all of One Piece. I just didn't want to risk mispelling it and find it easier to call it Sky Island anyways.
@Darth:Kuzan cost them Enies Lobby because he wanted to test whatever Robin had true friends or not. And he gave Spandam ability to call on Buster Call, which should be a cause to question his sanity, much less inteligence.
And yes, idea perhaps can't be killed, but knowledge? Sure can.
Pirates in One Piece are anything but pure and selfishness was not a virtue, last time I checked. As for violence and excessive militarisation not being a proper way to deal with pirate problem, I'm going to laugh at you. Seriously, what do you expect them to do?
And while yes, marines that are closer to pirates are perhaps shown to be slightly better moraly, but in better light? If anything, most of them are incompetent oafs that rely on said pirates to do their job for them.
If I were to choose whom I trust more to protect me from pirates, I'm picking Sakazuki over Smoker any day of the week.
Kuzan is insane, I agree . As for trusting Smoker less? Well of course you would, everytime we've ever seen him he's either losing a fight or teaming up with pirates! I wouldn't trust him either! But I'd trust Akainu even less! He could turn on me and kill me at any time just for the greater good aka his ""absolute justice ". I wouldn't trust him as far as I can spit. I DO feel militarization of the Marines is a wise idea though. They need ALOT more power and strength if they want to crush the constantly growing pirate threat.
It's nice to get worldbuilding and trivia, but I don't especially think it was worth it an entire arc.
Honestly, Skypiea feels like an experiment; something Oda originaly had no plans to include in, but decided to do it when it turned out he was able to go beyond his original four years plan.
Tying that to the main story and main characters properly is a problem here, not One Piece focusing on adventure and side characters. And let's be honest here, adventure part does not appear that much in the main story aside from Skypiea.
That's exactly how I feel about Skypiea aka Sky Island Saga. It was added once he realized he could make the manga longer. It also explains why we got to Alabasta at such a rapid pace, only for the remainder of part 1 of One Piece to feel long and drawn out. (Seriously. Stop and think about how long each saga actually is compared to how much was actually achieved)
@Riquelme:So i was thinking the fight between Luffy and Doffy started out as a two vs two but for a while now it has been a one vs two, all that happen was Luffy got tagged in for Law. I can't really see Law fighting again this Arc , -snip-
1. Cavendish/hakuba interfering
2. Luffy use a new technique with incredible speed to send Trebol flying. The reason why it is hard for me to see this as the same situation with Bluno is because Luffy took him on one on one but this is a totally different scenario.
3. As i mention before Zoro getting to take a shot at another executiveI can't really see Luffy beating both Doffy and Trebol together as that in my opinion would be a poor representation of Doffy as a final Boss and it would make Luffy way overpowered. I know that it is most people guess that Luffy will find someway to get rid of Trebol but that in itself must be presented as something spectacular and convincing. Honestly i think sooner or later Doffy will lose his cool, he will get a report shortly about the princess escape and it can either be him sending Trebol to retrieve her or as soon as he gets that bit of information Trebol is blown away before his eyes backing him into a corner then he will go apeshit and we will see is beast mode, therefore allowing us to get a full on clash of CO users.
Personally I WOULD like to see Zoro tag in for this but I don't see it happening. All told, I'm genuinely not sure HOW this fight will continue. Luffy is going to win, but it'd be rediculous if he did so alone against both of them.
@Jameswuds:There is no way Luffy can beat both of them at once, unless he beats Trebol in an instance and manage to focus on Doffy hard. I would think it's kind off a wasted opportunity for a tagteam battle and a waste of Trebol's power ( like, why would he even be there in the first place? ). I think Law's final contribution could be him doing something that temporarily distracts Doflamingo which makes sure Luffy can take him out with some epic shit that kicks Doffy's soul into another dimension. Sort of like how in the final battle against Cell, Gohan manages to destroy Cell thanks to Vegeta distracting him temporarily.
The thing is, at this rate the ending is basically impossible to predict. Sure, Doffy will go down, but how is basically impossible to foresee.
exactly. It's impossible to predict.
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All I wanna really see is Luffy doing it alone from here. Trebol could easily be taken out by some plot stuff, like him sacrificing himself for Doffy by getting in the way of a potentially deciding blow from Luffy. I'm leaning for a new form, say, Gear Max. Or something like removing some kind of limiter that he imposed on himself since start of Part 2 (they tend to always have that on shounens). But yeah, I like for him to have a convincing win against Doffy, because, really, I had enough of lucky bullshit from this arc!
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I don't know how I want Trebol to be handled. I'll go ahead and list a few scenarios that I wouldn't mind seeing, but I'm not really committed to a specific one.
1. Luffy knocks him out in one hit cause he is interfering in his fight. Also used to hype up Luffy vs Doflamingo even more.
2. Sabo shows up to the palace and takes on Trebol.
3. After Doflamingo finds out Mancherry is gone, Trebol is sent to get her. Robin/Rebecca intercept him and they clash.
4. Burgess is in fact in the palace and takes on Trebol.
5. Trebol gets scarred when Doflamingo is enraged and tries to run.
Just a little food for thought there. I'd like to know if there are some other ideas floating around, cause I'm having a hard time thinking of any other scenarios at the moment.
