To be honest, I always liked to rationalize it like that: Because Moria and Croco were defeated in the New World, in the manner that they were defeated, their willpower took a huge blow. You could say their ambition did not survived the contact with reality.
I like to think their Haki suffered as a result and they decided not to rely on it, instead using their Devil Fruits.
If you want to point fingers on people who should have Haki and don't, CP-9 wins the competition though.
Well, obviously he's going to suddenly have Haki post-timeskip. It can be easily explained that he learned it in those last 2 years, like Luffy and Smoker.
That explanation better suffices me or I'll just call it a plot hole and Smoker is completely understandable since the guy was logia swimming in a small pool.
One could say that because of his interest in Pluton, he thought Haki would be unnecessary. Moriah had a similar thinking. He really thought a Giant Zombie could allow him to conquer the New World.
Yeah, but he also thought he could defeat Whitebeard and Moriah, oh Moriah you freaking moron.
For a so-called NW veteran, Crocodile's bounty is kind of low. Not because of strenght, but it doesn't reflect his supposed fame before becoming a Warlord (if he was even that famous).
It's just half a million higher than Brownbeard's (who is half-crocodile, funnily enough).
Their bounty is also higher than Hancock, does that mean that they have done more than her?
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To be honest, I always liked to rationalize it like that: Because Moria and Croco were defeated in the New World, in the manner that they were defeated, their willpower took a huge blow. You could say their ambition did not survived the contact with reality.
I like to think their Haki suffered as a result and they decided not to rely on it, instead using their Devil Fruits.
If you want to point fingers on people who should have Haki and don't, CP-9 wins the competition though.
You can say that regarding Moriah who clearly showed to be affected by his defeat in the New World, but Crocoboy was pretty high and mighty during Alabasta.
To be honest, I always liked to rationalize it like that: Because Moria and Croco were defeated in the New World, in the manner that they were defeated, their willpower took a huge blow. You could say their ambition did not survived the contact with reality.
I like to think their Haki suffered as a result and they decided not to rely on it, instead using their Devil Fruits.
If you want to point fingers on people who should have Haki and don't, CP-9 wins the competition though.
I like to believe that their Tekkai master was jealous about how much Haki was better than his fighting style and made them believe that Haki didn't exist.
Poor Jabra. His Tekkai Kenpo is what Kuro's Shakushi is to Soru.
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Their bounty is also higher than Hancock, does that mean that they have done more than her?
Hancock's bounty is low because she was immediately invited after her first campaign. She actually never stepped in the NW (unless you count Mariejois).
So either Crocodile was slow at building his reputation or Whitebeard really wrecked him before he could do anything. In anyway, it doesn't seem like he lasted too long in the NW.
You can say that regarding Moriah who clearly showed to be affected by his defeat in the New World, but Crocoboy was pretty high and mighty during Alabasta.
I think someone like Crocodile is going to act arrogant no matter what happens to him. Still, I imagine getting defeated (probably very soundly) by Whitebeard had to have been a big blow to his willpower.
You can say that regarding Moriah who clearly showed to be affected by his defeat in the New World, but Crocoboy was pretty high and mighty during Alabasta.
Both were. And both were looking into other means of figting then their personal power, be it Pluton for Croco or Zombies for Moria.
I think the fact that they didn't believed in themselfs to the point of seeking that alternative speaks volumes.
Again, I'm having those memories of how rare Devil Fruits were in the 4 blues to the point of people believing they were just myths.
And here we are, in the Grand Line, users are everywhere and way more in the New World, all working to a certain Mr.K.
To be honest, I always liked to rationalize it like that: Because Moria and Croco were defeated in the New World, in the manner that they were defeated, their willpower took a huge blow. You could say their ambition did not survived the contact with reality.
I like to think their Haki suffered as a result and they decided not to rely on it, instead using their Devil Fruits.
If you want to point fingers on people who should have Haki and don't, CP-9 wins the competition though.
But the willpower thing imply only to CoC, other colors are achieved by training.
But the willpower thing imply only to CoC, other colors are achieved by training.
Correction: Their basis can be achieved by training.
There is also a question if they are affected or not. Personally, I believe they are. And I don't think that Croc and Moria would've lost it entirely, more that it would be diminished to the point of being insignificant in the face of their rather powerful fruits.
Besides, as I said, it a rationalization. It is not without flaws.
But the willpower thing imply only to CoC, other colors are achieved by training.
I don't think you can even train CoA & CoO if you don't have enough will power to start with, so if you lose your will/ambition (meaning of Haki) then you are probably going to lose your proficiency in those techniques.
I think someone like Crocodile is going to act arrogant no matter what happens to him. Still, I imagine getting defeated (probably very soundly) by Whitebeard had to have been a big blow to his willpower.
In a manga where the author uses this mean as a way to show how important dreams are and what happens after they get defeated it doesn't really make much sense for him to act high and mighty all the time.
In a manga where the author uses this mean as a way to show how important dreams are and what happens after they get defeated it doesn't really make much sense for him to act high and mighty all the time.
Yeah, and that's why I think its mostly a facade… meaning his arrogance is a front but inside he doesn't actually have enough willpower to achieve his dreams.
In a manga where the author uses this mean as a way to show how important dreams are and what happens after they get defeated it doesn't really make much sense for him to act high and mighty all the time.
Of course he would act high and mighty. His major obstacle at the time was a 30 Million East Blue rookie.
Both were. And both were looking into other means of figting then their personal power, be it Pluton for Croco or Zombies for Moria.
I think the fact that they didn't believed in themselfs to the point of seeking that alternative speaks volumes.
But you cannot really compare both of them, where one of them was shown to be pretty good mentally and physically while the other one is a complete wreck, you can argue that their circumstances were different (which they were), but it does not change the fact that Crocodile was still above a person who actually lost something important, hell you can even say that he just saw an opportunity to conquer whatever he wants to conquer by finding out about the Ancient Weapons and History then moved on to planing his takeover of Alabasta.
Correction: Their basis can be achieved by training.
There is also a question if they are affected or not. Personally, I believe they are. And I don't think that Croc and Moria would've lost it entirely, more that it would be diminished to the point of being insignificant in the face of their rather powerful fruits.
Besides, as I said, it a rationalization. It is not without flaws.
I don't think you can even train CoA & CoO if you don't have enough will power to start with, so if you lose your will/ambition (meaning of Haki) then you are probably going to lose your proficiency in those techniques.
Thank you guys for the explanations. I appreciate it.
Croco conversation with Mr.1 after the war maybe foreshadows that his willpower is back now.
Yeah, and that's why I think its mostly a facade… meaning his arrogance is a front but inside he doesn't actually have enough willpower to achieve his dreams.
It might be or it might not
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Of course he would act high and mighty. His major obstacle at the time was a 30 Million East Blue rookie.
Read that sentence pls and DO NOT OMIT the most important part of it
Read that sentence pls and DO NOT OMIT the most important part of it
I'm not omitting anything. He did have the same thought process as Moriah. He thought that he could achieve his goal through an alternate way, and he was placing his hopes in it.
Don Krieg was pretty arrogant too and thought he could tackle the Grand Line a 2nd time with a fucking restaurant, despite having his fleet destroyed by Mihawk. Some people just can't take a humble pie.
It also helps that Crocodile didn't really care for anyone, so his loss in the NW was way less traumatizing than Moriah's.
Croc is one of the few villains who is just extremely reckless/fearless, he actively went after Whitebeard and fucked with Akainu and HawkEye. In comparison, Doflamingo sweat bullets at the thought of Kaido coming after his ass.
One might say it's stupidity. But regardless, Croco-boy don't care. One of the reasons I like him.
EDIT: I'd also add that he is the smartest and most calculating Villain, too.
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Crocodile had a bone to pick with Whitebeard. If Doflamingo had a grudge against any of the Yonko he would definitely take action against them.
Croc is one of the few villains who is just extremely reckless/fearless, he actively went after Whitebeard and fucked with Akainu and HawkEye. In comparison, Doflamingo sweat bullets at the thought of Kaido coming after his ass.
And yet he was getting blackmailed by one of the least serious characters in the series. So much for fearless.
It's easy to compare a guy who has everything to lose with another who hasn't. Crocodile is allowed to be reckless as he is pretty much restarting from zero.
That's the thing, though. Crocodile didn't survive the New World. The fact that he only had a 81 Million bounty before becoming a Warlord shows that he didn't really impact things over there.
I mean, the likes of Cavendish and Bartolomeo are doing better than him.
In the dialogue with daz bones (chapter where luffy rings the bell If im right) is implied that croc got seriously beaten in the nw
"I'm simply an accident. Why take it all so seriously?"
And yet he was getting blackmailed by one of the least serious characters in the series. So much for fearless.
Well he might have been a woman in the past and wouldn't want for people to know such thing.
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I'm not omitting anything. He did have the same thought process as Moriah. He thought that he could achieve his goal through an alternate way, and he was placing his hopes in it.
Don Krieg was pretty arrogant too and thought he could tackle the Grand Line a 2nd time with a fucking restaurant, despite having his fleet destroyed by Mihawk. Some people just can't take a humble pie.
It also helps that Crocodile didn't really care for anyone, so his loss in the NW was way less traumatizing than Moriah's.
I'm going to reread the Alabasta arc over the weekend cuz I can't seriously discuss with a fuzzy memory.
that means croco boy never return to NW?
Mr. 1 implied that the NW scarred him heavily, but Croc claims that he's better now.
http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/One-Piece/593/17
Wheres chapter 773?
@Galaxy:
Jump's on break until next week.
Damn…...........
To be honest, I always liked to rationalize it like that: Because Moria and Croco were defeated in the New World, in the manner that they were defeated, their willpower took a huge blow. You could say their ambition did not survived the contact with reality.
thats actually a nice interpretation, i like that
Yeah, I like that interpretation, too.
And about Crocoboy not caring for anyone, I have the impression that the complete distrust towards everyone comes from some heavy betrayal. Like after the loss against Whitebeard his crew (or especially his closest friend) lost faith and tried to turn him in for the bounty. Maybe together with some kind of deal which cancels the own bounty - assuming that close friend actually had one.
Luffy defeated him with a barrel of water, Croco looks pretty helpless against water bender jinbe, besides, Croco is not Luffy's rival anymore, I can even see Zoro getting rid of him with no problem at all.
And that's not what I meant with M3, assuming Jinbe joins Sanji is totally losing his position as the third strongest one, and M3 will be Luffy, Zoro and Jinbe.Also, there's that people who believe that Sanji is gonna fight Kizaru by the end of the series, I don't believe this but the Kizaru>Croro is just as clear as water, and as long as there's people believing the Sanji vs Kizaru is gonna happen it means I'm not alone on believing Sanji>Croco.
Croco getting defeated by barrel of water happened 2 years ago and people learn from their defeat I guess. Crocodile being pirate fighting on sea by big part of time should have worked something out by now. It would be funny if Oda brings him back and he gets to beat few fishmen in first few scenes(hype tool and to show that he overcome his weakness somehow).
Like dehydration of air for example- as Cesar was able to remove oxygen, Croco with his desert scenery techniques could be able to dehydrate also air if Oda decides he can do it now.
Also you have no idea how Jinbe can compare to Sanji. The thing is even if Jinbe might be more effective against Crocodile than Sanji it doesnt mean that Jinbe is stronger one overall. Jinbe and Sanji can be pretty much equal. Jinbe could have gotten cracks against Vergo and get immobilized by Doflamingo same as Sanji.
All in all I dont follow your logic with argumenting eos match ups based on who is stronger then who at this moment :getlost:
@Bartholemew:
Yeah, I like that interpretation, too.
And about Crocoboy not caring for anyone, I have the impression that the complete distrust towards everyone comes from some heavy betrayal. Like after the loss against Whitebeard his crew (or especially his closest friend) lost faith and tried to turn him in for the bounty. Maybe together with some kind of deal which cancels the own bounty - assuming that close friend actually had one.
Sure thing we will get a flashback on Crocodile sooner than later. Oda has one of his best villains waiting in near future to make a move.
Its interesting to see that Crocodile seems to be reading newspaper with information on Doflamingo quitting Warlords- maybe he will go to Dressrosa for some reason and we will get to see him at conclusion of arc or at least get to see information on where he is headed?
Helping Strawhats again would be bit weird but Oda can easily do whatever he wants as long as it will be done by him it should be great.
Somebody has to take strawhats and Law away from Dressrosa to Zou when Sanji and Co should be waiting. Also there is no saying what Fujitora will do after Doflamingo getting beaten- very likely he will aim at capturing Luffy and Law- blind justice is blind justice in the end I guess.
Is not only Croco, Jinbe owned Moria by himself at MF, something that Pre-TS Sanji could do only on his dreams.
And I already said that even without his water advantage Jinbe still has better fighting skills and awsome resistance since we know about his fight with Ace, compared with the first 7 shichis he's already a better fighter than Croco and Moria and could do really good against Hancock and Kuma, as long as Sanji can't surpass him there will be no Jinbe joining and neither Sanji vs Kizaru.
Why can't Sanji be stronger than Croco??
Because at this point of the story it would be pointless and totally kill Croco character that has still a lot to say.
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This is stupid, you know.
Was Marguerite stronger than Luffy pre-timeskip?
No, it isn't because you're talking about a totally different setting where the girls are raised to use Haki from their childhood.
Let's face it, as things are now in OP, it seems that there is people who knows what Haki is and people who doesn't.
Which is simple narrative, but it's how things are.
When people get to know Haki, they start to train to achieve it, when they start realizing they need it to survive, they train to achieve it.
Then, how much strong is your Haki is a totally different story, but supposing that a character stubborn and ambitious like Crocodile won't get Haki is silly.
He surely hasn't shown it so far and neither Dofla showed it on Marineford, so we could even think that Dofla too learned Haki after the timeskip, if we go by the logic "he hadn't shown it so he doesn't possess it"
Proud Kintama Owner 
And yet he was getting blackmailed by one of the least serious characters in the series. So much for fearless.
It's easy to compare a guy who has everything to lose with another who hasn't. Crocodile is allowed to be reckless as he is pretty much restarting from zero.
Fear of loosing name and pride might be stronger than fear of death for some people.
Crocodiles weakness that Iva was speaking about is Crocodiles pride. Thats why he blackmailed Crocodile into not doing anything funny.
That secret has to do something with Okamas in my opinion and not with Crocodile being a woman at start.
Is not only Croco, Jinbe owned Moria by himself at MF, something that Pre-TS Sanji could do only on his dreams.
And I already said that even without his water advantage Jinbe still has better fighting skills and awsome resistance since we know about his fight with Ace, compared with the first 7 shichis he's already a better fighter than Croco and Moria and could do really good against Hancock and Kuma, as long as Sanji can't surpass him there will be no Jinbe joining and neither Sanji vs Kizaru.
You know that you say that Jinbe has "better fighting skills and awesome resistance" and compare it to Crocodile without much logic behind it? How can you tell how Ace or Jinbe would do against Crocodile in a fight? Just because Luffy beat him it doesnt mean he is weaker than any of those 2 at time when they fought each other(some years even before War).
Basics on big part of what you write is "your liking" from looks of it, no offence but your arguments are based on "If this guy fights that.. I think that.." - so it doesnt hold value to me. You have to try harder but still you have no reason to think that Jinbe is stronger than Crocodile really, at least not on manga pages.
With all of the screentime Croco had, he never showed any different fighting skills besides of throwing dirt at people and has terrible resistance, Jinbe in the other hand doesn't have that much screentime and is already pretty impressive, an hypotetycal fight between those two would be a win for Jinbe mostly(again) because his natural advantage just like Rubber>electricity, as for Sanji, since he can CoA the shit out of Croco and Croco relys way too much on his logia, I'm pretty sure that DiableJambing him would work just fine on him and probably will be taken down after some other kicks, Croco's strength is in the past just as his relevance for the series.
Mr. 1 implied that the NW scarred him heavily, but Croc claims that he's better now.
http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/One-Piece/593/17
I didn't understood it like that. To me Mr 1 was talking about about whitebeard's death, and how the disappointement must have been hard on him to see the one who was so powerfull that he crushed his dreams, being killed by the marine.
With all of the screentime Croco had, he never showed any different fighting skills besides of throwing dirt at people and has terrible resistance, Jinbe in the other hand doesn't have that much screentime and is already pretty impressive, an hypotetycal fight between those two would be a win for Jinbe mostly(again) because his natural advantage just like Rubber>electricity, as for Sanji, since he can CoA the shit out of Croco and Croco relys way too much on his logia, I'm pretty sure that DiableJambing him would work just fine on him and probably will be taken down after some other kicks, Croco's strength is in the past just as his relevance for the series.
Its not same as Rubber > Electricity… Luffy was natural enemy to Enel and I dont think that every Fishman or anybody else knowing Fishman Karateis nautral enemy to Crocodile.
Crocodile fought in Grand Line, not New World- 99% of people he faced there were probably many times weaker than common enemy you meet every day in New World. You know that Crocodile relied mostly on his Devil Fruit in place full of weak people compared to him. He somehow was already in New World and meet people like Whitebeard that pushed him back to Grand Line. It doesnt mean that he was weak but only that his ambitions were far too big for his strength at point in time long ago. He was kind of like Luffy in that regard with difference of Luffy being acknowledged as danger and beaten to point of loosing whole crew even before he gotten to New World.
Thanks to Kuma who saved Strawhats from fate very alike to one that Moria and Corocodile gotten with getting scarred for years because they were not up to challenge of New World.
Also as for your match up of Sanji vs Crocodile - Sanji having CoA does not mean auto-win.. Especially with fact that Crocodile powere is most difficult to fight from up close as if somebodys CoA haki is not protecting you well enough after being grabbed by Crocodile(leg, arm, head, whatever) you get turned into mummy and its end of the fight for you. Sanji being CQC fighter doesnt make anything easier.
Crocodile after 2 years being back in New World should be high caliber pirate that cannot be underestimated.
I see him as somebody who might be shown to be as strong and feared as Supernovas like Kidd for example as story goes on. Also another rival for Luffy in a way.
Also if you remember about Laws words about people just waiting those last 2 years, getting ready for something- Crocodile avoided any marines for last 2 years so he very likely was up to something and should suprise us in some way when he will be back.
Its not about him being < or > than somebody else for me, he was satysfying villain for his time and Oda kept him in story for some good reason- I would like him being enemy to some of Supernovas, Marine hellbent on capturing him(for example Dobberman going after Crocodile like Smoker goes after Luffy) etc as story goes on, like Crocodile having his adventure on his own if you get me.
Lucci also can be brought back to story, even for Kaido arc - him being in Kaido forces as a mole of some sort for somebody would be interesting. He should be able to get into crew and is very well know World Goverment agent but at same time Kaido let Drake X join who is ex marine. So Lucci being back in Kaido saga is also possible.
Oda created incredibly big world and as we can see some of secondary characters fight can be super interesting as well, especially if we will get something like that for ex-villains vs some hyped New World pirates or Supernovas.
Croco's current situation is more like Cabbages, infamous rookie who's nowadays living with the frustration of not being strong enough to play along with the upcoming big timers of the Worst Gen.
Guys, downplaying Croco is so silly, as it is downplaying other characters.
Some of you haven't realized that Luffy is the main protagonist, but the supporting actor is not the crew or the antagonist, it's OnePiece world.
The amount of history, politics, events, people, deals that makes the World alive.
In this world Croco has still a place, his action will move some gears even if it will be an overall failure, they will still bring consequences.
Even a character that seems silly as Buggy has a place.
And…I don't see why Crocodile, that somehow discovered the existence of Ancestral Weapons (how? from who? when?), would stop from searching them?
Especially because he's one of the few guys knowing of their existence and mostly because it hasn't been revealed yet how he got the info.
Its not same as Rubber > Electricity… Luffy was natural enemy to Enel and I dont think that every Fishman or anybody else knowing Fishman Karateis nautral enemy to Crocodile.
Crocodile fought in Grand Line, not New World- 99% of people he faced there were probably many times weaker than common enemy you meet every day in New World. You know that Crocodile relied mostly on his Devil Fruit in place full of weak people compared to him. He somehow was already in New World and meet people like Whitebeard that pushed him back to Grand Line. It doesnt mean that he was weak but only that his ambitions were far too big for his strength at point in time long ago. He was kind of like Luffy in that regard with difference of Luffy being acknowledged as danger and beaten to point of loosing whole crew even before he gotten to New World.Thanks to Kuma who saved Strawhats from fate very alike to one that Moria and Corocodile gotten with getting scarred for years because they were not up to challenge of New World.
Also as for your match up of Sanji vs Crocodile - Sanji having CoA does not mean auto-win.. Especially with fact that Crocodile powere is most difficult to fight from up close as if somebodys CoA haki is not protecting you well enough after being grabbed by Crocodile(leg, arm, head, whatever) you get turned into mummy and its end of the fight for you. Sanji being CQC fighter doesnt make anything easier.
Crocodile after 2 years being back in New World should be high caliber pirate that cannot be underestimated.
I see him as somebody who might be shown to be as strong and feared as Supernovas like Kidd for example as story goes on. Also another rival for Luffy in a way.
Also if you remember about Laws words about people just waiting those last 2 years, getting ready for something- Crocodile avoided any marines for last 2 years so he very likely was up to something and should suprise us in some way when he will be back.Its not about him being < or > than somebody else for me, he was satysfying villain for his time and Oda kept him in story for some good reason- I would like him being enemy to some of Supernovas, Marine hellbent on capturing him(for example Dobberman going after Crocodile like Smoker goes after Luffy) etc as story goes on, like Crocodile having his adventure on his own if you get me.
Lucci also can be brought back to story, even for Kaido arc - him being in Kaido forces as a mole of some sort for somebody would be interesting. He should be able to get into crew and is very well know World Goverment agent but at same time Kaido let Drake X join who is ex marine. So Lucci being back in Kaido saga is also possible.
Oda created incredibly big world and as we can see some of secondary characters fight can be super interesting as well, especially if we will get something like that for ex-villains vs some hyped New World pirates or Supernovas.
that's your first post that I managed to finish reading completely, wether it was me rushing or your post too longs (no offense please) idk, anyway, i can reply :)
Of course they will be in the story but I hope to see old characters appearing from time to time and even steal the scene occasionally but, since we still have years to wait, i hope that the evolution of the story will bring us to meet the remaining and most powerful people and not a revival of the previous arcs. damn we still have 3 yonkos and all their crews, the long hyped reverie, the admirals, akainu, world governments and world nobles. luffy and his dad. one piece. if we are going one day per year like lately it's already going to take a lot of time and i want to see the end before dying :D
beside that, luffy growth has been impressive fast, given the fact that previous villains like crocodile (dofla and moria too as well as others) were established in their positions from years without big evolutions til now, i don't see them keeping up the pace of luffy. At least they'll fight some random sh or allies from time to time
Croco's current situation is more like Cabbages, infamous rookie who's nowadays living with the frustration of not being strong enough to play along with the upcoming big timers of the Worst Gen.
I dont think so.
Cabbage is half serious character compared to Crocodile. We didnt seen any gag-like face from Crocodile in any panel. Some veins and funny trolling with Mr Prince for sure but no gag/ sparkly faces that we get quite often from Cabbage. I dont see him living in shadow of New Generation for long as its not in his character, he is person that always plans and aims at something from what we have seen. He might not be King of Pirates but I can see Oda making him one of "legendary pirates" with bounty over 500mln.
As I see Hakuba as somebody on par with Supernovas, I dont see Cabbage to be as strong as them. Cabbage almost lost his life to Gladius and I dont think any of Supernovas would be loosing like that to Mr Awesome Hair and Googles. On other hand I can easily see current Crocodile being on par with top of Supernovas as he was already strong before Time Skip and he would not have much to catch up to those of "Worst Generation"(If he had to catch up at all and not only get resolve and train some to get some rust off himself).
that's your first post that I managed to finish reading completely, wether it was me rushing or your post too longs (no offense please) idk, anyway, i can reply :)
Of course they will be in the story but I hope to see old characters appearing from time to time and even steal the scene occasionally but, since we still have years to wait, i hope that the evolution of the story will bring us to meet the remaining and most powerful people and not a revival of the previous arcs. damn we still have 3 yonkos and all their crews, the long hyped reverie, the admirals, akainu, world governments and world nobles. luffy and his dad. one piece. if we are going one day per year like lately it's already going to take a lot of time and i want to see the end before dying :D
beside that, luffy growth has been impressive fast, given the fact that previous villains like crocodile (dofla and moria too as well as others) were established in their positions from years without big evolutions til now, i don't see them keeping up the pace of luffy. At least they'll fight some random sh or allies from time to time
I will take that as compliment 
As for what you wrote its like Luffys willpower had big part in him winning fights with Crocodile and Moria, of course his powers as well but Moria and Crocodile were shadows of their former selves after being broken by New World. And it was Luffy who needed to catch up to likes of Moria and Crocodile so he doesnt get stomped and has a shot same as Moria and Crocodile had some years ago.
For all that I seen Luffy and Crocodile might be really alike - both gutsy, having no fear of getting crushed by stronger enemy. One was after lesson with Whitebeard + somebodys betrayal and other had to split with his crew for 2 years and almost died himself in Marineford War. Crocodile didnt stopped picking fights with stronger than him during War and Luffy still does his thing as well- shown against Cesar and words Luffy said before smashing Cesars face in - he doesnt care.
Difference with Luffy now will be that he will have all sort of friends and allies and wont only depend on himself and his own crew as Moria and Crocodile most likely did. I guess thats its Odas way of saying that is good to make friends and dont try to do everything by yourself(kind of like Law will have a friend in Luffy after taking out Crocodile).
As for Crocodile he even himself said he wont team up with anybody - so another proof that seems to be his weakness. Maybe it changed though but we will see, sure thing is that Oda remembers about that pride of Croco every time we see him http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v58/c566/6.html
Mr. 1 implied that the NW scarred him heavily, but Croc claims that he's better now.
http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/One-Piece/593/17
If you enter new world and then fought the world strongest man, wouldn't that scar anyone? Not everyone was as lucky as Ace.
Big MoM ate - 2012
CC for nakama.
I will take that as compliment
quantity itself usually do not necessarily relate with absolute value
For all that I seen Luffy and Crocodile might be really alike - both gutsy, having no fear of getting crushed by stronger enemy. One was after lesson with Whitebeard + somebodys betrayal and other had to split with his crew for 2 years and almost died himself in Marineford War. Crocodile didnt stopped picking fights with stronger than him during War and Luffy still does his thing as well- shown against Cesar and words Luffy said before smashing Cesars face in - he doesnt care.
i don't think so, crocodile has a brain for instance, luffy has more luck. crocodile knows what to do, when and how to do it. he's surely stubborn and self praising but what you think is recklessness to me it's something different.
Difference with Luffy now will be that he will have all sort of friends and allies and wont only depend on himself and his own crew as Moria and Crocodile most likely did. I guess thats its Odas way of saying that is good to make friends and dont try to do everything by yourself(kind of like Law will have a friend in Luffy after taking out Crocodile).
As for Crocodile he even himself said he wont team up with anybody - so another proof that seems to be his weakness. Maybe it changed though but we will see, sure thing is that Oda remembers about that pride of Croco every time we see him http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v58/c566/6.html
Crocodile said he wasn't acting according to anybody. BW already showed he could team up with (or exploit) anybody fits his needings
quantity itself usually do not necessarily relate with absolute value
i don't think so, crocodile has a brain for instance, luffy has more luck. crocodile knows what to do, when and how to do it. he's surely stubborn and self praising but what you think is recklessness to me it's something different.
Crocodile said he wasn't acting according to anybody. BW already showed he could team up with (or exploit) anybody fits his needings
Touche(lol).
He didnt wanted to team up with anybody with comparable status to himself from what I understood. He doesnt want anybody to boss over him and in BW he had full control on bossing everybody around, not teaming up with other strong people like himself. You seem to misunderstood or mix up those things from what you wrote.
As for Crocodiles smarts I guess he wasnt like that from start and when he seen he cant beat everybody he changed approach and started to be more of a planning person. He was most likely crushed along with his pride by Whitebeard so this could have changed his ways I guess.
Not telling that Luffy can be like that but I do think that part of Crocodiles smarts came out of purely experience. Who knows how Strawhats would turn out if not for help of Kuma and Rayleigh, they could have been already dead by most part if their luck would run out in New World and they would meet Kaido for example and try to fight him(I think that might be what Kidd done during timeskip time).
If for you charging at Whitebeard wasnt recklessness comparable to Luffys same as facing Admiral or Mihawk head on while they are clearly stronger then we probably wont come to understand each other well..
Because at this point of the story it would be pointless and totally kill Croco character that has still a lot to say.
Sanji's relative strength is completely irrelevant to that.
It's dumb to think that Crocodile must be as strong as a certain character to still have something to say.
No, it isn't because you're talking about a totally different setting where the girls are raised to use Haki from their childhood.
Let's face it, as things are now in OP, it seems that there is people who knows what Haki is and people who doesn't.
Which is simple narrative, but it's how things are.
When people get to know Haki, they start to train to achieve it, when they start realizing they need it to survive, they train to achieve it.
Then, how much strong is your Haki is a totally different story, but supposing that a character stubborn and ambitious like Crocodile won't get Haki is silly.
He surely hasn't shown it so far and neither Dofla showed it on Marineford, so we could even think that Dofla too learned Haki after the timeskip, if we go by the logic "he hadn't shown it so he doesn't possess it"
Crocodile lost in the NW, so that was probably a pretty big blow to his willpower. He pretty much had no self-confidence to return to the NW without a powerful weapon.
Also, keep in mind that Crocodile spent most of his life outside the New World, plotting to obtain Pluton after being defeated by Whitebeard. Haki wouldn't be too much of a necessity for him in that case, as Paradise wasn't filled with Haki users.
Not everyone was as lucky as Ace.
Maybe Crocodile wanted to be Whitebeard's "son" like Ace and got rejected.
Sanji's relative strength is completely irrelevant to that.
It's dumb to think that Crocodile must be as strong as at least Sanji to still have something to say.
Crocodile lost in the NW, so that was probably a pretty big blow to his willpower. He pretty much had no self-confidence to return to the NW without a powerful weapon.
Also, keep in mind that Crocodile spent most of his life outside the New World, plotting to obtain Pluton after being defeated by Whitebeard. Haki wouldn't be too much of a necessity for him in that case, as Paradise wasn't filled with Haki users.
Pretty much the manga is designed in a way that Sanji won't ever face Croco so we'll never know.
Power levels don't mean much in OP, still hierarchy do quite a bit, and Croco is still a Captain, and in that regard I don't know if a serious Buggy not doing the idiot would lose to Sanji (I use Sanji for example but it could be Zoro or whoever).
Or probably Croco went to NW when he wasn't prepared enough.
He probably was one of the first one to set sail after the OnePiece.
There were probably less pirates and less stronger.
We know for certain that Luffy, Law & co are the worst generation, that means that back in Croco (or Dofla/Moria/etc…) days, pirates were less and probably weaker.
I think that Haki is a technique that spread from the New World to Paradise, so many entered the NW completely unware of that and were eventually wiped out.
Both yours and mine are assumption, but I think that Croco and the others entered NW without Haki, crushed willpower or not.
And anyway Croco proved to recover from blows pretty damn fast unlike Moria.
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