Can someone repost the template everyone has for the smash fighter profile sig please?
Super Smash Bros
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@Aru:
Really?
After what Nintendo showed, you people are still whining?
Welcome to Arlong Park Forums. Enjoy your stay.
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:( I like Smash on 3ds cause i don't really go for home consoles and now i can play it. Of course, now i don't play it as much cause i'm playing Taiko no Tatsujin (HOLY SHIT, YOU CAN SMACK THE 3DS LIKE A DRUM GUYS!) but still, it was pretty cool for the franchise to make a portable appareance.
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I would complain about the 3DS version if they had to cut more characters (other than the Ice Climbers), Stages, etc. but as long as I don't hear anything like that I'll be satisfied (even though only one of my wanted characters made it into the final roster).
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@Aru:
Really?
After what Nintendo showed, you people are still whining? No, Smash wouldn't be better if it was only on Wii U. Stop it, it's just annoying reading stuff like that - let's change the topic to literally ANYTHING ELSE.
Complaining is like half the point of discussion, though. Never told you to shut up and enjoy every aspect of Korra. Don't expect people not to disagree with some of this game's design choices. The two game thing was something scrutinized from the start as being limiting and seeing the final product hasn't really shaken those concerns from everyone.
That's looking things backwards.
The budget was determined knowing there were 2 games to be developed. There wasn't a set budget for a SSB sequel and then they decided to share that budget developing 2 games instead of one.
There's no way Nintendo would have spent the same budget they did for only one game.I can only agree that the game could have been released earlier (Sakurai basically confirmed that).
Yeah, the budgeting stuff just gets speculative and I won't really dwell on it, except to say that it's a high enough profile release that I'm sure a version designed for a single console would likely have more than either of the two games individually (though probably not so much as the two combined).
It's not that I don't believe there are reasons for the 3DS version to exist, but even as a person who doesn't plan on owning a Wii U for a while and just has a 3DS, I would rather have seen one more refined game than a good game and its demo.
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Focus of resources doesn't just mean budget, either. It's also who you choose to hire and what they're working on (and for example Sakurai would only have to focus on the one game), and the overall content design. As a software developer I can tell you it's really foolish to think that when you're developing for side-by-side versions, they don't directly impact each other in huge ways even if there's not that much evidence to the public of things being majorly affected (the one we know absolutely for sure is Ice Climbers). Since the games do have to strongly parallel each other, even if modes and extra content can differ, there WILL have been design choices in terms of roster, item mechanics, gameplay mechanics etc. that came about entirely due to considerations of what would work on the 3DS. Like yes I get that some people really want a portable version, and that maybe it's the only version they'll ever play. Doesn't mean I can't be upset about the results of this development approach.
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Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
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@Aru:
There is only a single character I want and a single stage I want. And I can pay the price of the game, 60$, just for these two alone as a DLC.
Hunter from Monster Hunter and a stage. That is all. I shall cry and probably never be able to play due to happiness, but this'll be everything I'll ever need from Smash.
I don't know if the hunter would work because there's thousands of armors if not more all of them very different from each other not only with different skills but the bigger problem they all different aesthetically, not to mention that there's like 14 different weapons that work completely different from each other how would that be able to be integrated on the Hunter fighting style in a way that would represent the series.
The second best thing would be the guys that help us on the quests, the Shakalakas or cats and they could have on their final smash the hunters all using the different weapons(this last one is just wishful thinking but considering there's repeated final smashes even on characters from different franchises I'm not to optimist)… but considering the shakalakas and the cats usually work on pairs just like the ice climbers and the 3ds can't handle them... their chances are not that great.
The third best choice would be monster and the only one I can see working at least from third generation since it's the only that is on Nintendo consoles (not counting 4U since for now it's only on japan) It's Brachydios since he is all about punch the crap out of us and his final Smash could be his rage mode which is punching the crap out us + explosions.!
Also since he is purple dinosaur it would be hilarious to see the Ridley fans reaction to him be playable and not Ridley.
Now the stage would be hilarious because it had to have so many hazard (minion monsters) all made purposely to kill you to be true for the franchise lol.
And this stage yellow devil would be this guy only that he has way more frequency of repairing than yellow devil.
I'm sure competitive only people would love this stage:ninja: -
Oh yea? Target blast
Target blast serves as much as a purpose in the smash games as destroying the car in Street Fighter 2.
I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284
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Target blast serves as much as a purpose in the smash games as destroying the car in Street Fighter 2.
For shits and giggles?
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I like the 3DS version. It has a lot of content for a 3DS game. I'm actually impressed by it.
Single player has always been Smash's weakness. Brawl's was probably the best one because of the whole 'story' motif, but that's it, the mode itself wasn't all too good. Adventure mode in Melee was cool the first time you play it, but it get's old real fast. The original smash had nothing besides classic mode.
So yeah…. while it would've been appreciative if the 3DS version (and probably Wii U version) had a more robust single player campaign, in true Smash fashion, single player is their weakness. Nothing has changed really. At least now we got online capabilities which don't require us to actually be with someone in present to play Smash, which for me, remedies the lacking single player component. Honestly, games in general are turning more for a multiplayer experience only.
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@Purple:
For shits and giggles?
I guess so .
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So yeah…. while it would've been appreciative if the 3DS version (and probably Wii U version) had a more robust single player campaign, in true Smash fashion, single player is their weakness. Nothing has changed really.
Yeah, I agree with this. This game doesn't feel like it has any more or less compelling Single Player than any prior game with maybe the exception of the SSE in Brawl, and even then, while that was decently robust, It didn't compel me to play it.
I played it once to unlock characters and then never again.To be completely honest, I think I've played the Single Player modes in Smash 3DS more than any prior Smash game due to wanting to get all the Customs. I think the game being a more singular experience due to being a portable is making the lack of truly compelling Single Player modes that has ALWAYS been a problem for this series more pronounced without being particularly worse than prior games.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
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I definitely loved and played the crap out of Adventure mode and I don't get why anyone would dislike it. Also even in the Smash 64 days, they had Board the Platforms and Break the Targets, AND they showed up during Classic mode. Those things also count as an awesome single-player experience… it's a pure measure of skill. Target Blast is mindless RNG bullshit.
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Break the Targets is that one that sometimes appears on Smash Run?
Cause if it is, that one at least for me is worst and more boring than target blast. -
My final comment on the matter :
There's too many speculations regarding what happened behind the scene in those "What if" scenarios. We know almost nothing about what they planned, what they didn't,…
It's easy to realize that endless debates will happen until the next sequel.
For example, if the game was WiiU only, would Nintendo have required Namco's help to develop the game ? If they didn't, would the game be better or worse ? There's no way to know that but I'm sure debates like this one will exist.Right now, what we can say is only :
- Ice Climbers wouldn't have been cut (even that I'm not 100% sure because of the 8-player smash)
- Transformations could have stayed. A change for the better according to Sakurai. I agree with that and I'm not the only one.
- Olimar changes regarding his maximum number of pikmins might not have been made. That one is a speculation that while likely wasn't confimed.
So unless you're a die-hard IC fan or was one of the big fans of mid-fight transformations, I won't agree with what you think the 3DS prevented you to have.
Anyway, back to the 3DS version, I'll be available later for some games. I'll see you on the chat.
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I definitely loved and played the crap out of Adventure mode and I don't get why anyone would dislike it. Also even in the Smash 64 days, they had Board the Platforms and Break the Targets, AND they showed up during Classic mode. Those things also count as an awesome single-player experience… it's a pure measure of skill. Target Blast is mindless RNG bullshit.
Are you kidding me?
Adventure mode was incredibly repetitive after the first few play in's, just seems like nostalgia once again shines by Melee's side, because that mode is nothing special now. Maybe at the time, at first. But not now.
Honestly, it was so bare bones, the reason Brawl HAS the SSE was because complaints that Adventure mode was repetitive and not worth another visit after a few times. So they completely souped it up with SSE.
And board the platforms, break the targets appearing in classic mode was nothing more than the same ol' minigames the series always provides for us. Doesn't really make for a drastic change in single player capability. There was nothing special about it.
So yeah…. I'm honestly not seeing this AWESOME SUPER FUN TIME SINGLE PLAYER MODE that Smash 64 and Melee had. If anything Brawl had the best one, but all the same - single player has always been Smash's weakness.
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Melee's event battles are still the best.
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It did have the most interesting scenarios but that honestly doesnt mean it had the best single player experiece. Or at least, not by a huge margin like some people here are implying.
I honestly feel Demon Rin is right, in that the traditional weaknesses Smash games have are even more noticeable on a handheld.
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Adventure mode was incredibly repetitive after the first few play in's, just seems like nostalgia once again shines by Melee's side, because that mode is nothing special now. Maybe at the time, at first. But not now.
So… what single-player experience isn't repetitive? It was a lot more fun and interesting than Classic, because you could mess around, stomp some Goombas, do some gameplay that wasn't a direct fight for a change. And do the silly challenges like Yoshi Rainbow or speed run it etc. It was a LOT more refreshing than just doing fights in a row, and didn't take forever. I enjoyed SSE a lot too, but it's not the type of thing you can run through from start to finish with any character in a short time.
And board the platforms, break the targets appearing in classic mode was nothing more than the same ol' minigames the series always provides for us. Doesn't really make for a drastic change in single player capability. There was nothing special about it.
Um they were FUN minigames that were tailored to each character and had a lot of replay value for high scores. They have been replaced with bullshit minigames (and even in Brawl, with generic pointless versions). So yes, they are special.
So yeah…. I'm honestly not seeing this AWESOME SUPER FUN TIME SINGLE PLAYER MODE that Smash 64 and Melee had. If anything Brawl had the best one, but all the same - single player has always been Smash's weakness.
Yes… because it's essentially a fighting game... what's the point of saying that? It had BETTER single-player stuff before. And the event matches make a HUGE difference.
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I honestly dont see your point and it all seems the same ol Melee is superior driveldrivel, but to each their own. To me each installment has been about the same in single player content except for Brawl who had the best one.
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I've made the argument before, but if you don't count repetitions (the same exact game mode being played by different characters), then SSB64 has a deeper single player experience among its 24 individual break the targets/board the platforms courses than SSB3DS.
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I honestly dont see your point and it all seems the same ol Melee is superior driveldrivel, but to each their own. To me each installment has been about the same in single player content except for Brawl who had the best one.
I'm not some Melee fanboy actually. Other than tripping, I didn't mind Brawl's gameplay, and I still really like how Smash 64 plays as well in terms of actual battle mechanics. All I'm saying is the single-player modes from the first 2 games vastly exceed anything in Smash 4. Well, we can hope there will be lots of awesome event matches in the Wii U version; that remains to be seen. But the minigames were far better, and an Adventure-like mode to supplement Classic is something sorely missing.
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Would this argument appear at all if they released the 3DS version, and then waited say, a year to release the WiiU version, rather than a month? Because then the allotted development time would be obvious, rather than behind the scenes?
They slotted working time and a large enough team to make two games… they didn't allot development time to one game and then in mid process change their mind and steal a year off it to make the other. They started with two games in mind.
You don't see anyone saying Dragon Age 3 on PS3 is clearly going to be holding back the PS4 and PC version in terms of actual gameplay content, or that Pokemon suffers from having two near identical games made at the same time.
("If only they hadn't done that other version with an alternate cave and new designs for a different villain team with slightly different dialogue and an extra piece of boxart! They could have made a brand new ice wolf monster in that time instead!")
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("If only they hadn't done that other version with an alternate cave and new designs for a different villain team with slightly different dialogue and an extra piece of boxart! They could have made a brand new ice wolf monster in that time instead!")
Robby don't fool yourself. they would have used that time to make yet another fire/fighting starter.
(this joke is not the same anymore because of Delphox)
I want to believe too big guy3ds code friend:0404-6254-1866new "new"3ds code friend:0791-4253-7110 (monster hunter)
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Would this argument appear at all if they released the 3DS version, and then waited say, a year to release the WiiU version, rather than a month? Because then the allotted development time would be obvious, rather than behind the scenes?
They slotted working time and a large enough team to make two games… they didn't allot development time to one game and then in mid process change their mind and steal a year off it to make the other. They started with two games in mind.
You don't see anyone saying Dragon Age 3 on PS3 is clearly going to be holding back the PS4 and PC version in terms of actual gameplay content, or that Pokemon suffers from having two near identical games made at the same time.
("If only they hadn't done that other version with an alternate cave and new designs for a different villain team with slightly different dialogue and an extra piece of boxart! They could have made a brand new ice wolf monster in that time instead!")
If they gave the Wii U version an extra year, things probably would have gone somewhat differently (right now it's definitely rushed, and was originally supposed to be a simultaneous launch). It's very difficult to plan and execute simultaneous sister projects. Trust me. But what wouldn't change is the fact that they have this goal of keeping the two versions relatively in sync which hurts the console version regardless.
And there's a huge difference in the technology/performance gap between the handheld 3DS and Wii U compared to a game being released for late last gen and new current gen. Like, the 3DS can't handle a mechanic that was accomplished well over 10 years ago in Melee. You can port a PS4 game to PS3 with the only real difference being a reduction in graphical fidelity (framerate, resolution, maybe some textures, drawing distance etc). Or the same thing in the opposite direction. It's not a great comparison.
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Not to mention that cross-platform releases for other games rarely let the functionality of one of their release consoles effect anything on another. See Wii releases of triple A titles from last gen for reference.
And I don't think I've ever met anyone who liked the bifurcation of Pokemon games.
3DS FC: 0662-3589-2887
NNID: Gibbs-free
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Not to mention that cross-platform releases for other games rarely let the functionality of one of their release consoles effect anything on another. See Wii releases of triple A titles from last gen for reference.
And I don't think I've ever met anyone who liked the bifurcation of Pokemon games.
Why can't I get Vulpix in Gold why?, it's not fair throws gameboy and angrily crosses arms.
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Rizon chat is dead, Who wants to play some matches?
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Really there are two things involved here. Maybe three. First is that while the single player experience was not the selling point, there has been something of a degradation of the experience. I mean, yes, as Rin pointed out, they have built the incentive into the single player gameplay because of the customs, but this is just indicative of poor general design if they have to force the player to do something they otherwise wouldn't. But hey the Wii U version will probably have the same problems, so why is it such an issue on the 3DS?
It's that when it comes to the 3DS version, there really is a level of incentive to design it around a single player experience of some sort because, hey, not every place has free wifi yet, and some have free wifi locked behind some authentication that the 3DS isn't capable of maneuvering around. It's a mobile game based off a game whose original design was around the multiplayer experience where players may find it difficult to take it "on the go" and actually have fun with it as is. The lack of a somewhat robust single player experience is felt even more so on the 3DS than the Wii U because of the implicit nature of the console. In this case, I don't think we're asking a lot for something a bit more tailored to the the handheld. Or, make some bite sized challenges that really mix up the gameplay. Have downloadable event matches with a lot of creative scenarios. A lot of people here already came up with a lot of really neat ideas for event matches/For Fun setups, so just have small things to diversify the gameplay. Angry Birds isn't something deep but it maintains common interest by having something bitesized and different every time you do a different level
On the topic of the 3DS/Wii U split, I don't particularly mind it, but in the end the Wii U version was always going to be the definitive version for me anyway
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I work on multiple simultaneous projects all the time. I completely understand one eating time over the other and coordination needed and all that. Doesn't change the fact they still allotted time and budget for two games.
The 3DS can't handle a specific mechanic that eats a lot of a specific processor… while trying to run more or less current graphics. Yet it can do higher quality ports of other games from the same era. I'm sure it could probably do a more or less perfect port of Brawl (enhanced even) if that's all they were shooting for. The 3DS can pretty much do Wii and PS2 games and its certainly capable of better than the N64 or Gamecube
They probably could have done Ice Climbers if they were going a bit weaker in the graphics department as they should for a handheld, and yes, were developing more towards the system's strengths.
Co-developing on two fairly different hardwares is tough, I get that. But isn't it the actual production choices ultimately making the difference there? They chose to go for levels that have lots of moving parts and high polygon count characters with tons of animations, and squeeze in like 100 random summons and pokemon... even on a screen where you can't see those things.
They could have made the minigames more interesting if their focus had been specifically on the minigames, but obviously it wasn't. If instead of a batter game and an angry birds game and a richochet top game, they had just made one.
Smash run should be proper multiplayer. Item drops should be less random. Shop should be better. The menu screen shouldn't be 4 layers deep.
Yes, its obvious if you focus on just one thing it can be better. No one is arguing that. But no one seems to be pointing towards the fact that its the actual creative decisions at fault, rather than the development time split itself?
The rub in this particular case is probably more that they were also developing the NEW 3DS at the same time, and so were essentially being hamstrung even more than needed. If they'd just dubbed it as an actual new system and been done with it, probably avoid this all together…
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Can I get some examples? I'm confused here.
Yes, its obvious if you focus on just one thing it can be better. No one is arguing that. But no one seems to be pointing towards the fact that its the actual creative decisions at fault, rather than the development time split itself?
It's really both. The two game thing got some focus because a few people said that it wasn't a valid complaint.
My complaint, though, is that with all the hindsight in the world, If I knew having two games meant getting the 3DS version that we got, and also considering that I only own a 3DS and not a Wii U, I would have rather ended up with a slightly more polished or earlier released Wii U exclusive version than the two games we have. I would be feeling much differently if 3DS had a stronger single player mode and more distinguishing features, instead of just getting significantly less on all fronts than the Wii U version plus a multiplayer mode that you could only play locally, which isn't even the handheld's niche. The poor creative decisions make me feel that the time split wasn't worthwhile.
3DS FC: 0662-3589-2887
NNID: Gibbs-free
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@Purple:
Diet Ridley (Which I would presume be a smaller Ridley with fewer calories)
Well there is a precedent for that.
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http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100429021017/metroid/images/e/eb/Ridleychibi.png
Well there is a precedent for that.
Well, at least it's not furby ridley
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If one Ridley makes it into Smash, it has to be this one:
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Captain N for Smash, with canon DLC costumes for every character involved.
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Well, that's the entire long thing I just wrote in one sentence.
Pretty much that. Creative choices made are the catch, rather than the intrinsic split itself.
(Quoting this since it's smaller than your previous post)
There is overlap, though. Not all decisions when you're frantically managing 2 projects that are running late are made for purely creative reasons. Long-term projects almost never get done in the estimated time, and it's stressful and it drives decision-making. Dealing with ONE massive system-selling title is probably hard enough. But yes, all of what I've been saying is in the context of "because they are trying to maintain the versions in sync." Presumably in terms of basic content, functionality, and visuals (insofar as the 3DS allows). If that weren't true, I would have far fewer complaints. Basically it'd be limited to the fact that the game is definitely rushed (and if they didn't have a 3DS version already out, they might not feel so pressured to push it out the door).
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People are using the word "rushed" way too often these days. I can't agree the majority of the time with that use. Qualifying either version of SSB4 as "rushed" is one of them.
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Rushed = Pushed out the door sooner than you would have liked to otherwise. This is incredibly obviously the case here.
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As someone who has a deadline above his neck like right now (and can't really do anything about it) the word rushed and deadline makes me really nervous xD
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Smash was definitely rushed, the game would have probably come out in 2015 if it wasn't for Ninty needing it to come out this year to push sales for both systems and get the amiibo thing running.
Also, won't respond to a bunch of the things said because wagomu and foolio articulate my points pretty nicely.
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Well, it's not "obvious" to me.
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When you consider the monotony of 1P mode, it's really hard to not see how lackluster it is.
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"lackluster" and "rushed" are 2 different things IMO.
Anyway, no new Famitsu column from Sakurai since the direct ? How often did he write those ?
