Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

[Doffy. D Evil]

@moud:

why is everyone ignoring the fact that Whitebeard foreshadowed the final war for the pirate king to be against WG ?!
and we know for sure Teach will fall just before luffy becomes the PK , how is it even possible for Teach to become a final villain ?

i think it's either the gorosei or an "other" , akainu is more like a soldier he is neither a final "villain" material nor strong enough

So how exactly we know that Teach will fall before Luffy becomes the PK ? Would love to see the panel where something like this is stated .

[RamistaR]

@Doffy.:

So how exactly we know that Teach will fall before Luffy becomes the PK ? Would love to see the panel where something like this is stated .

Gee read between the lines. I don't agree with him but it's obvious, he meant that Luffy's contestants in the race for the One Piece will fall before they find the One Piece. As opposed to the WG.

[Monquito]

Release a conflict that would involve a lot if not all of the countries of the world into killing each other is something only Teach would do, like he did with Marines/WBpirates.

[Doffy. D Evil]

@RamistaR:

Gee read between the lines. I don't agree with him but it's obvious, he meant that Luffy's contestants in the race for the One Piece will fall before they find the One Piece. As opposed to the WG.

No i get what he is saying . I am just simply asking for proof from the source material since i don't remember anything like that being implied anywhere in the manga .

[desa]

@RamistaR:

I agree, for all we know it's his only move that didn't help his plan. Was it just for fun ?

I would be surprise if it wasn't. That seems unable to deal with anything without some killing and destruction.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Razh:

Maybe he recruited Doc Q there.

Would have been funny if Doc Q turned out to be Hiluluk's old rival.

I'm not sure hiring the rival of a quack has your doctor is a good idea.

[hosemisnuba]

@Tyrano:

Wasn't there a thread for this already

There was, but the poll was ended, so I resurrected the topic in a new thread; I did acknowledge the other threads creation with the 2.0 anyways.

[desa]

@Monquito:

Release a conflict that would involve a lot if not all of the countries of the world into killing each other is something only Teach would do, like he did with Marines/WBpirates.

Dragon or Robin could do so.

[Monquito]

Lol, even "other" is better option than Akainu.

[Mortein]

Last opponent will be Coby, before him Gorosei, before them someone still unknown to readers, before him Blackbeard and before him Akainu.

[Jabra]

@Darth:

See, Blackbeards clumsiness and overconfidence severely hurts the feel of danger he produces. Him getting hit all the time, screaming like an idiot in pain, all while doing those speeches full with self praise, and mocking his enemies.

You just summed up everything I love about Blackbeard.

His phonecall at the colosseum was hilarious, I will miss his irritating douchebag side once he decends into a 100% hatable, threatening main villain.

As for Akainu, yeah as of now he is the only (truly) threatening villain, if only because of his "I get shit done" attitude. So threatening that Oda had to hide him behind a desk instead of letting him kill pirates in the New World. What a waste!

[Darth]

@Jabra:

You just summed up everything I love about Blackbeard.

His phonecall at the colosseum was hilarious, I will miss his irritating douchebag side once he decends into a 100% hatable, threatening main villain.

I love that about the guy as well, but it doesn't exactly make him a good villain material.

I would rather have him retain those quirks, and actually accomplish stuff. He can do it, since it happened plenty of times… off-panel. Little bit of on-panel succes for him, and I will be happy.

@Jabra:

As for Akainu, yeah as of now he is the only (truly) threatening villain, if only because of his "I get shit done" attitude. So threatening that Oda had to hide him behind a desk instead of letting him kill pirates in the New World. What a waste!

And unfortunatly, he doesn't seem to capable of implanting the same kind of attitude in his subordinates. Marines have managed to become even more insignificante to plot of arcs they are featured in then before, which I didn't think was possible. For shame.

[DARK_RITUAL]

Don't worry people for I believe that Greenbull will be like another "I get job done" person.

Oda likes to introduce the calm and non threatening admirals first
AOKIJI was first introduced, now Fuji who's mostly like AOKIJI is first between the two admiral introduced.

Kizaru the "I don't know I don't care" so Kizaru would be the next Admiral to be shown in new world

Finally Akainu "I get job done" so Greenbull would be introduced last with him putting in work.

[moud]

@RamistaR:

Gee read between the lines. I don't agree with him but it's obvious, he meant that Luffy's contestants in the race for the One Piece will fall before they find the One Piece. As opposed to the WG.

thank you sir

@Doffy.:

No i get what he is saying . I am just simply asking for proof from the source material since i don't remember anything like that being implied anywhere in the manga .

source material ? interesting
well there's common sense and there's this
obviously there's not a clear indication in the manga that he will be beaten before luffy becomes PK but you can easily figure that out by yourself … hmmm but you already know all that don't you ?

[Doffy. D Evil]

@moud:

thank you sir

source material ? interesting
well there's common sense and there's this
obviously there's not a clear indication in the manga that he will be beaten before luffy becomes PK but you can easily figure that out by yourself … hmmm but you already know all that don't you ?

So Luffy stating that he will eventually beat the four yonkous = him fighting them before becoming the PK …....................Wow this guy is a genius ........

[MadieV]

Mmm…As of now, the manga is setting up the WG as the final boss. Luffy apparently is their natural enemy and WB's words heavily implied that the main conflict will start after the OP is found. Of course that doesn't mean BB won't be involved, in fact, i'm truly expecting a good 'ol Royal Rumble with the Revolutionaries vs the World Government, Blackbeard Pirates vs Strawhat Pirates, Luffy's allies lead by Bartolomeo vs the remaining Supernovas, Enel, Maxim and his crew of aliens vs Shirahoshi, Noah and her crew of Sea Kings and finally Garp vs Chinjao round 2.

Changing the subject, Luffy's reaction to Akainu's name was 10 times more hostile than what we got from him by the mentioning of Blackbeard, however, as much as I would love to see Luffy kick Akainu's ass, for some reason i can also see this conflict becoming Sabo's battle.

BB and Luffy do have clashing ideals and he's mainly responsible for Ace's death but it looks like that's not enough for Luffy to consider him a rock in the shoe that needs to be removed. We actually need more sauce, it's not like Luffy is going to be like, Hi Teach, i'm here to give you an ass whooping because you think cherry pies are awesome but i actually think soda is more awesome and i hate to say this but your three heads are kind of freaky, unless Blackbeard kills Law to get the OP OP no mi... yeah forget the last paragraph.

[DynamiteShikoku]

it's gonna be luffy + BB vs marines/akainu then luffy vs BB then luffy vs shanks as the secret boss. not that shanks is evil or anything like that, it's just that their meeting will be a pirate meeting and shanks also wants to know just how strong luffy has become. i will be very mad if we dont get to see luffy and shanks fight each other.

[Monkey King]

@Jules197:

Oh I'm well familiar with your posts. But just because you have defended your theory in the previous version of this thread, that does not make it acceptable spam the new thread with replies that contribute absolutely nothing to it.

Right, we should have the same dead arguments circle around endlessly, punctuated by pedantic people defending that toilet cycle.

Anyway, back on topic: moments before his death, Whitebeard straight out said a great battle will engulf the world as soon as someone finds the One Piece, and that the Marines and the World Government live in fear of that day. Meaning, the battle against the World Government will happen AFTER someone becomes the Pirate King and finds the One Piece, not before. Fighting Blackbeard after becoming the Pirate King and destroying the World Government would make no sense at all.

1. ahaha, see that's my whole point. You aren't actually familiar with my theory at all. Everything about what you said was addressed time and time again in the old thread. And we veterans are tired of trotting it out again and again. And sure the complete noobies don't know it, but you have no excuse at all 2011.
It makes perfect sense with even the tiniest bit of thought. Why does this thread even exist honestly?
2. Being Pirate King isn't about fighting, it's about Raftel. Roger didn't destroy Whitebeard to become Pirate King, he conquered the Grand Line by reaching Raftel.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@hosemisnuba:

There was, but the poll was ended, so I resurrected the topic in a new thread; I did acknowledge the other threads creation with the 2.0 anyways.

What you've created evidently is a place for the defeated and crap theories of the last thread to pretend nothing happened there.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@moud:

source material ? interesting
well there's common sense and there's this
obviously there's not a clear indication in the manga that he will be beaten before luffy becomes PK but you can easily figure that out by yourself … hmmm but you already know all that don't you ?

That's not evidence of any kind at all.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@moud:

why is everyone ignoring the fact that Whitebeard foreshadowed the final war for the pirate king to be against WG ?!

He did nothing of the sort. He foreshadows a period of upheaval and chaos because of what the treasure concerns. Will that involve the WG? Of course.
Now what I want to know is where the hell you got the idea that it wouldn't involve anything else?
It's like you haven't thought it through at all.
Do you have an idea of why that chaos will come about? I sure do.
Do you have an idea of whether that chaos is potentially even more dangerous than the WG? I sure do.

and we know for sure Teach will fall just before luffy becomes the PK ,

We know nothing of the sort.

how is it even possible for Teach to become a final villain ?

Probably because the One Piece involves resurrection of ancient powers and secrets from the lost century, precisely what the WG is sitting on top of, and it will become a free for all to harness those things. Blackbeard, wants a new era of chaos. Gee.

[Jules197]

@Monkey:

Right, we should have the same dead arguments circle around endlessly, punctuated by pedantic people defending that toilet cycle.

1. ahaha, see that's my whole point. You aren't actually familiar with my theory at all. Everything about what you said was addressed time and time again in the old thread. And we veterans are tired of trotting it out again and again. And sure the complete noobies don't know it, but you have no excuse at all 2011.
It makes perfect sense with even the tiniest bit of thought. Why does this thread even exist honestly?
2. Being Pirate King isn't about fighting, it's about Raftel. Roger didn't destroy Whitebeard to become Pirate King, he conquered the Grand Line by reaching Raftel.

1. No, we shouldn't have the same arguments over and over. That is exactly the reason why if you didn't have anything to add to the thread (or didn't feel like explaining your theory again) you shouldn't post comments like "nope" and the likes of it. Why should someone speak when they have nothing to say? The only answer is to attract attention to themselves.

2. Once again, I'm well familiar with your theory. But just because I've been around since 2011, that does not mean I should have changed my mind since then. We haven't gotten to the final villain yet, so I haven't been proven wrong, and neither have you - that is exactly why this is a speculation thread, because no one is 100% sure of what will happen.

Now, I definitely agree with you that Blackbeard represents the antithesis of Luffy's ideals, and that he will most likely be the most dangerous opponent Luffy will face. However, I do not think that from a story telling perspective, it makes any sense for him to be the final villain.

Everything is being set so that Luffy will be the man who will change the world and destroy the pseudo-dictatorship of the World Government. This cannot happen before Luffy becomes Pirate King (Whitebeard said the battle would only occur after someone finds the One Piece), so it must happen afterwards. That basically means Luffy will have to deal with Blackbeard before - because it's not like Blackbeard will just sit and watch Luffy travel to Raftel without moving a finger.

This is the way I see it: Luffy and Blackbeard are two polar opposites who have the same goal, and they go about different ways in order to achieve it. Luffy will surpass Blackbeard and prove that his way was the right one. He will reach Raftel and Blackbeard will not.
But the story won't end here: it is clear that there are things one must do when becoming Pirate King - Rayleigh said that they reached Raftel and there discovered the true history, but there was nothing they could do about it. Thus Roger decided to "sacrifice" himself in order to create a great new era of pirates, hoping that someone would finish what he could not - destroying the World Government. If we assume that Luffy will become the next Pirate King, then his final opponent cannot be Blackbeard, because that does not match Rayleigh's nor Whitebeard's words.

EDIT: also, did you really just compare the relationship between Roger and Whitebeard to the one between Luffy and Blackbeard to prove your point? Seriously?

[Monkey King]

@Jules197:

1. No, we shouldn't have the same arguments over and over. That is exactly the reason why if you didn't have anything to add to the thread (or didn't feel like explaining your theory again) you shouldn't post comments like "nope" and the likes of it. Why should someone speak when they have nothing to say? The only answer is to attract attention to themselves.

I have a fuck ton to say in the actual thread, and not this redundant chance for revisionists.

2. Once again, I'm well familiar with your theory. But just because I've been around since 2011, that does not mean I should have changed my mind since then. We haven't gotten to the final villain yet, so I haven't been proven wrong, and neither have you - that is exactly why this is a speculation thread, because no one is 100% sure of what will happen.

No you are not familiar with it lol. "Familiar" would imply you know what it actually involves and not just "this guy thinks it's Blackbeard". Which is clearly all you remember whatsoever.
btw, Akainu is a garbage theory, "other" is a garbage theory, the Gorusei are…meh. Blackbeard is the only theory that would actually supply a good ending to the series. Therefore hope against hope that I'm wrong.

Now, I definitely agree with you that Blackbeard represents the antithesis of Luffy's ideals, and that he will most likely be the most dangerous opponent Luffy will face. However, I do not think that from a story telling perspective, it makes any sense for him to be the final villain.

Funny how "storytelling perspective" forms a massive cornerstone to this theory of mine you claim to have read. It's a great read, I was glancing at it again a few hours ago. Me and like, most of the people on the forum's theory that is. In case even this thread's poll is flying over your head.

Everything is being set so that Luffy will be the man who will change the world and destroy the pseudo-dictatorship of the World Government.

Changing the world is more of a important big end goal than destroying the government that stands in the way of a new world. Please reverse the order there and boom, Blackbeard makes all the more sense.

This cannot happen before Luffy becomes Pirate King (Whitebeard said the battle would only occur after someone finds the One Piece), so it must happen afterwards. That basically means Luffy will have to deal with Blackbeard before - because it's not like Blackbeard will just sit and watch Luffy travel to Raftel without moving a finger.

It's not like Blackbeard is an omnipresent omniscient god man who follows Luffy's ever move. It's also not like Blackbeard is the guardian of Raftel. It's also not like there's any other forces on the seas that Blackbeard would be tangling with. It's also not like Blackbeard ever said that becoming pirate king was his goal, and that Luffy winning the race there doesn't ruin his dream if he can some of that sweet ancient power stuff for hisself.

This is the way I see it: Luffy and Blackbeard are two polar opposites who have the same goal,

Please quote for me where Blackbeard's goal was stated as being about getting to Raftel before anyone else. Rather than the comments about rampant chaos that he has actually made.

Luffy will surpass Blackbeard and prove that his way was the right one. He will reach Raftel and Blackbeard will not.

He will reach it first. Probably unlocking/revealing the way as he does.

But the story won't end here:

Of course not, because Luffy will open the can of worms that is the One Piece secret. Something involving potential danger. But obviously Luffy will not harness that danger, and niether will the WG who so powerfully opposes it. Maybe if Akainu were remotely a credible main villain I'd option him, but nope. Though he may harness part of it.

it is clear that there are things one must do when becoming Pirate King -

Claim the treasure. Complete the Grand Line journey to get there in the first place. That's it!

Rayleigh said that they reached Raftel and there discovered the true story, but there was nothing they could do about it.

He also hinted that the true story was gray and not black and white. Ergo that the WG are not merely evil bastards hiding a box of cake and ice cream from the world.
This needs no more thought than "oh yeah those super weapons".

Thus Roger decided to "sacrifice" himself in order to create a great new era of pirates, hoping that someone would finish what he could not - destroying the World Government.

This is really dumb mainly because the WG doesn't live or die based on covering history up, or a box of ice cream and puppies.
They're villains because of their actual actions, not being secretive wierdos about history.
Roger obviously thinks some aspect of the secrets is worth opening up to all the world, but it's got to be deeper than a redundant point like "the violent authoritarian state we live under is actually a violent authoritarian state that lied about a 100 year period of history!".

If we assume that Luffy will become the next Pirate King, then his final opponent cannot be Blackbeard, because that does not match Rayleigh's nor Whitebeard's words.

It perfectly matches them. Reread their words.
Whitebeard hints at a upheavel. A redefinition of the world. A possible new future. Do you seriously not see how Blackbeard as the mirror Luffy offers a potential evil new history? The WG is just a neutral villain who locked the future up.
As for Rayleigh? Shit, his is the most important words of all. He talks like there's a darker aspect to the secrets than what people just keep assuming. That it's complex and a matter of debate, what they found. This directly suggests that opening the pandora's box the government is sitting on top of might have potential dangers.
The government is not the embodiment of those dangers. Blackbeard is the person precisely aligned to fill that role.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@DynamiteShikoku:

it's gonna be luffy + BB vs marines/akainu then luffy vs BB then luffy vs shanks as the secret boss. not that shanks is evil or anything like that, it's just that their meeting will be a pirate meeting and shanks also wants to know just how strong luffy has become. i will be very mad if we dont get to see luffy and shanks fight each other.

Blackbeard is going to kill Shanks, probably not long before Raftel happens.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@MadieV:

Changing the subject, Luffy's reaction to Akainu's name was 10 times more hostile than what we got from him by the mentioning of Blackbeard, however, as much as I would love to see Luffy kick Akainu's ass, for some reason i can also see this conflict becoming Sabo's battle.

That's because Blackbeard hasn't killed anyone close to Luffy….yet.

BB and Luffy do have clashing ideals and he's mainly responsible for Ace's death but it looks like that's not enough for Luffy to consider him a rock in the shoe that needs to be removed. We actually need more sauce, it's not like Luffy is going to be like, Hi Teach, i'm here to give you an ass whooping because you think cherry pies are awesome but i actually think soda is more awesome and i hate to say this but your three heads are kind of freaky, unless Blackbeard kills Law to get the OP OP no mi… yeah forget the last paragraph.

Blackbeard is going to murder Shanks.
I mean yeah you're probably thinking "lol wtf are u talking about!"
Until you recall Oda is blatantly setting up a vendetta between Shanks and Blackbeard, they even already had a duel.

[springsring]

@Monkey:

Silly question but have you ever considered making a thread where you could post you individual.analysis of characters and arcs within the series or whatever else you thought about that warranted discussion within the series?
I'm not asking you to but I'm just curious because from what I've read of your posts you have a pretty unique take on the series and it would be nice to see that in one concise place.
Good post btw.

[moud]

That's not evidence of any kind at all.

it wasn't supposed to be , i was merely reminding him that BB is one of the obstacles that luffy himself knows he will have to face in order to become a PK .. as i said there is not a clear indication of that , like there's not a proof that he will face big mom before that either , again most of the times you don't have proofs you just put things together and use your sense , we're all speculating here ppl

@Monkey:

He did nothing of the sort. He foreshadows a period of upheaval and chaos because of what the treasure concerns. Will that involve the WG? Of course.
Now what I want to know is where the hell you got the idea that it wouldn't involve anything else?
It's like you haven't thought it through at all.
Do you have an idea of why that chaos will come about? I sure do.
Do you have an idea of whether that chaos is potentially even more dangerous than the WG? I sure do.

huh? you might want to give that a reread

!
he clearly gave a timing for the showdown of that chaos "when someone finds that treasure" that is ..
will it involve anything else other than the WG ? could be , that's why i said the "final villain" might be an Other
the point here is that thing most likely won't be BB since as i said above he will be defeated before finding one piece

@Doffy.:

So Luffy stating that he will eventually beat the four yonkous = him fighting them before becoming the PK …....................Wow this guy is a genius ........

thanks pal

[hosemisnuba]

This post is deleted!

[Monkey King]

@moud:

it wasn't supposed to be , i was merely reminding him that BB is one of the obstacles that luffy himself knows he will have to face in order to become a PK .. as i said there is not a clear indication of that , like there's not a proof that he will face big mom before that either , again most of the times you don't have proofs you just put things together and use your sense , we're all speculating here ppl

What you pointed out there doesn't add or change anything though. Luffy acknowledges the Yonkou as rivals to the throne, I don't think there's ANYONE who denies that.

huh? you might want to give that a reread

! http://e465.enterprise.fastwebserver.de/series/OnePiece/0576-011.png
he clearly gave a timing for the showdown of that chaos "when someone finds that treasure" that is ..

Buddy, I predicted that plot point yeaaaars before Whitebeard finally spat it out. I'm definitely more familiar with that line and it's implications than anyone.
Also what are you talking about? How does what you're saying in any way contradict what I was saying?

will it involve anything else other than the WG ? could be , that's why i said the "final villain" might be an Other
the point here is that thing most likely won't be BB since as i said above he will be defeated before finding one piece

Oh right, because you just assume Blackbeard will be defeated prior to the treasure for some reason. There is no qualification of defeating all the other pirates in order to get the treasure/reach Raftel. Roger was pirate king, and we are never told he vanquished the Whitebeard crew as any part of it.

[ARTEMlS]

@moud:

and we know for sure Teach will fall just before luffy becomes the PK

How can we know that for sure?!

I agree with Monkey King here about the overall course of story for the final arc/saga. Well, I can imagine the Luffy facing Blackbeard at Raftel, but not in the way of BB getting completely defeated as well as his ambition getting completely crushed already at that point. They might both try to carry out Roger's will after the revelations at Raftel, but, of course, not in the same way which will then set up the final conflict.

[MadieV]

@Monkey:

That's because Blackbeard hasn't killed anyone close to Luffy….yet.

Blackbeard is going to murder Shanks.
I mean yeah you're probably thinking "lol wtf are u talking about!"
Until you recall Oda is blatantly setting up a vendetta between Shanks and Blackbeard, they even already had a duel.

That's pretty plausible. I'm personally hoping Shanks doesn't end up dead but if he does then it would be Oda's cruelest move if Luffy and the Red Haired pirates don't get to reunite before that happens.

[Monkey King]

@MadieV:

That's pretty plausible. I'm personally hoping Shanks doesn't end up dead but if he does then it would be Oda's cruelest move if Luffy and the Red Haired pirates don't get to reunite before that happens.

Oh they could still reunite. I imagine Oda will give them some scene together, probably not long before whatever altercation happens between the Red Hairs and Blackbeards.

[Jules197]

@Monkey:

Oh right, because you just assume Blackbeard will be defeated prior to the treasure for some reason. There is no qualification of defeating all the other pirates in order to get the treasure/reach Raftel. Roger was pirate king, and we are never told he vanquished the Whitebeard crew as any part of it.

I won't be bothered to answer to everything you replied to me, simply because you can't accept the fact that we're both speculating - you take it for a fact that what you say will happen and what I'm saying is just a product of my imagination. It's not like I invented the page where Whitebeard says that as soon as someone finds the One Piece, there will be a major war that will eventually lead to the destruction of the World Government. It's not like I invented the page where Rayleigh says that Roger's crew discovered the true history (along with everything that the Government had been hiding) but they couldn't do what was "expected" of them. These panels are EVIDENCE that by reaching Raftel, one realizes that it is their duty to face the Government. You just decide to ignore all of this and state as a fact that Blackbeard is the final villain just because he represents the "dark side" of Luffy's ideals and has been set as an extremely powerful opponent that Luffy will have to deal with. Mind you, I definitely agree that he is the polar opposite of Luffy and that he will have to be dealt with - we just disagree on the timing. And based on what I just pointed out, I have absolutely no reason as to why I should think it will happen AFTER Luffy becomes the Pirate King, when we have straight out been told that the Pirate King's final "mission" is to destroy the Government.

Also, note that I did say Government, not Marines. It is the Government as an organisation, their oppression and their evil deeds that Luffy will have to expose and destroy. Sure, some Marines will have to be dealt with, because they stand for the same ideals (Akainu, etc.) as the Government. It's not like Luffy will have to destroy every single marine, just like he won't destroy every single island which is affiliated with the Government. He will destroy the structure which rules the World, and that structure is represented by the Gorosei.

Now, on another subject, I'll repeat what I have already said on the line I just quoted you on - do you seriously compare the relationship between Roger and Whitebeard to the one between Luffy and Blackbeard in order to prove your point?

I feel like explaining the difference to you is really stupid because it should be obvious, but I'll do it anyway because you just don't seem to be able to understand: no, Roger did not destroy Whitebeard in order to become Pirate King. But that is because he didn't have to - they were RIVALS, not ENEMIES. They didn't fight for the same goal. They respected each other. They had drinks together. They shared secrets with each other (The Will of D). Do you seriously believe this is the same kind of relationship that Luffy and Blackbeard have? After everything Blackbeard has done, do you see him and Luffy just going for a cup of sake and laughing together? Luffy casually telling him what he discovered when he became Pirate King? Of course not, and that is because Luffy and Blackbeard are ENEMIES. And that is exactly why Blackbeard will have to be dealt with before Luffy becomes the Pirate King - because he is an enemy who is fighting for the same goal.

[MadieV]

@Jules197:

Luffy and Blackbeard are ENEMIES. And that is exactly why Blackbeard will have to be dealt with before Luffy becomes the Pirate King - because he is an enemy who is fighting for the same goal.

If i remember correctly, the only hints Blackbeard has given us about his intentions are that he wants chaos and he wants to rule the world. We assume he wants to find the treasure based on Whitebeard's words but that may not be the case.

Edit: Forget this part entirely. I just remembered he stated he wanted to be the pirate king during his fight with Ace.

If i didn't know that Oda is the kind of mangaka that gives his main character almost all the winning cards, i would be here arguing that the chaos that will shake the One Piece world to it's core will be caused by the chaotic Blackbeard finding the One Piece, basing my statements on Whitebeard saying that chaos will engulf the world after the treasure is found , the fact that i know Teach wants to cause disorder and because the pirate that Teach is based on was considered to be "The Pirate King" (not that it actually means anything).

[BobLoblaw]

The Gorosei imo. I mean, they practically rule the whole world. Even after defeating Teach and/or Akainu, it wouldn't make a bit of difference if the heads of the WG are still around ordering the marines, cipher pol, etc. I can see it being Akainu and the Gorosei as the last obstacle, but in order for the world to change, they'd all have to go (but not without a fight obviously).

[Monkey King]

@Jules197:

I won't be bothered to answer to everything you replied to me, simply because you can't accept the fact that we're both speculating

You say that like speculations are inherently equal lol.
Knowing the internet we could get some guy in here speculating that the final villain will be George Washington. I guess he's also speculating just like us!

• you take it for a fact that what you say will happen and what I'm saying is just a product of my imagination.

You dismiss what other people are saying when you don't like what you're hearing. Even though they're basing it off blatant evidence and hints.

It's not like I invented the page where Whitebeard says that as soon as someone finds the One Piece, there will be a major war that will eventually lead to the destruction of the World Government.

Using that page against me is like using oil on a fire. It's one of the huge cornerstones of all my "Finale of One Piece" speculation.
Like I told the other guy, it was a huge love letter to me from Oda after years hawking the "One Piece is the true history/secrets and the discovery will threaten the WG". Of COURSE the WG will be involved in the finale, of COURSE it will fall.
NONE of that contradicts anything I'm saying in the slightest, on the contrary it was built into it before I even came around to building the Blackbeard as final villain stuff on top of it.

This funny because once again, this was covered ad nauseam on the old thread. With people just like you seemingly incapable of imagining a huge finale conflict period involving multiple sides. You can only envision just Luffy vs some WG stand in like Akainu or the better among you, the Gorusei.
A huge war that will engulf the whole world is what Whitebeard says, Oda states in an interview that the final conflict will make Marineford look like nothing.
And you don't think ALL these sides, good pirates, bad pirates, revolutionaries, good marines, bad marines/WG….can all at once be involved.
My position though is that Blackbeard will be the biggest bad in the heap by the end, probably utilizing an ancient weapon or some such. And that will be Luffy's final fight. Whereas Akainu will likely be the foe of Sabo, Coby, Smoker or somebody.

It's not like I invented the page where Rayleigh says that Roger's crew discovered the true history (along with everything that the Government had been hiding) but they couldn't do what was "expected" of them.

That's far from all that Rayleigh said. Go read that scene again because you missed so much….oh wait I'm getting deja vu was this discussed also over and over on the last thread yes it was oh wow imagine that it's almost like you have no idea what my theory is.

These panels are EVIDENCE that by reaching Raftel, one realizes that it is their duty to face the Government.

You not only didn't actually read my posts in the last thread, you're not even doing it in this one. I just addressed this. Literally just yesterday lol.

You just decide to ignore all of this

Homework: Read all my posts on the old thread.
Also reread the Rayleigh scene.

Also, note that I did say Government, not Marines.

The Marines are the army of the World Government. Why people choose to see them as fundamentally separate entities is beyond me.

It is the Government as an organisation, their oppression and their evil deeds that Luffy will have to expose and destroy.

Expose what? Evil deeds of 800 years ago? As opposed to all the modern evil deeds everyone already knows about? And the active revolution against them?

Sure, some Marines will have to be dealt with, because they stand for the same ideals (Akainu, etc.) as the Government.

A large portion of the Marines will no doubt stay loyal to the WG. A Marine civil war is very obviously in the cards.

It's not like Luffy will have to destroy every single marine, just like he won't destroy every single island which is affiliated with the Government. He will destroy the structure which rules the World, and that structure is represented by the Gorosei.

The Gorusei, who have been depicted as realpolitick neutral conservative villains who showed regret for having to execute all the Ohara Scholars.
As opposed to the out and out chaos villain of Blackbeard.

This is like asking if the final villain will be Otto Von Bismarck or Hitler.
Hmmmmmmm.

Now, on another subject, I'll repeat what I have already said on the line I just quoted you on - do you seriously compare the relationship between Roger and Whitebeard to the one between Luffy and Blackbeard in order to prove your point?

That's not what we're arguing about there bud. You're arguing that Luffy HAS to take out Blackbeard before reaching Raftel, when that has nothing to do with it.

I feel like explaining the difference to you is really stupid because it should be obvious, but I'll do it anyway because you just don't seem to be able to understand: no, Roger did not destroy Whitebeard in order to become Pirate King. But that is because he didn't have to - they were RIVALS, not ENEMIES. They didn't fight for the same goal.

Why do you HAVE to fight and destroy another pirate crew to get to Raftel again? If Luffy finds the way there is he going to go "Wait nope, we have to look for Blackbeard first"? lol

[maxterdexter]

Oh god, Sabo defeating Akainu would be so glorious.

[Doffy. D Evil]

@Monkey:

Funny how "storytelling perspective" forms a massive cornerstone to this theory of mine you claim to have read. It's a great read, I was glancing at it again a few hours ago. Me and like, most of the people on the forum's theory that is. In case even this thread's poll is flying over your head.

Where can i find your theory ? Would love to read it .

[Monkey King]

@Doffy.:

Where can i find your theory ? Would love to read it .

Just read my posts in the old thread.

[Jules197]

Again, I can't be bothered to answer to every single one of your bad jokes and provocations. Let's just agree to disagree for now, until one of us is proven wrong. HOWEVER:

That's not what we're arguing about there bud. You're arguing that Luffy HAS to take out Blackbeard before reaching Raftel, when that has nothing to do with it.

Excuse me? You were the one who brought this subject up in order to prove your point. You basically said that Luffy won't have to defeat Blackbeard in order to reach Raftel, because Roger also didn't have to defeat Whitebeard. YOU were the one who used this argument to support your theory.
All I did was simply explain how stupid it is to compare the relationship between Luffy and Blackbeard to the one between Roger and Whitebeard.

Why do you HAVE to fight and destroy another pirate crew to get to Raftel again? If Luffy finds the way there is he going to go "Wait nope, we have to look for Blackbeard first"? lol

You don't have to fight and destroy any pirate crew to get to Raftel, no. As a matter of fact, you don't HAVE to fight anyone. Luffy didn't HAVE to fight Crocodile. Nor Enel, nor Lucci, nor Moriah, nor Magellan, nor ANYONE. He fought them because they were in his way, because they were threatening the people he cared about, because they were doing things Luffy didn't agree with, etc.
Blackbeard will eventually be in Luffy's way to becoming the Pirate King. He is partially responsible for Ace's death, and will most likely be responsible for Shanks' as well (I think we both support this theory). Luffy will face him because he WANTS to, just like he has done with everyone else in the story so far.

But no, you believe Luffy will just ignore Blackbeard and race to Raftel (just like he ignored Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, etc. and moved to the next island, right? I mean, from your point of view, it's not like he HAD to defeat them in order to reach the next island, am I correct?) Because you make it sound as if reaching Raftel will be more of a race to see who crosses the finishing line first.

• Luffy's side:
  "Hurray, I became the Pirate King because I have the fastest boat! Now let's go teach a lesson to that damn Blackbeard! Oh, and we must go back to fight Crocodile as well. And Earlobe guy on the sky island. And Pigeon guy. And… hum... I'm forgetting someone... Dammit, that's too many opponents. I guess I should have defeated them along the way instead of just racing through them."

• Blackbeard's side:
  "Dammit, Straw Hat got there first... It's my fault, I was distracted eating pies. What to do, what to do... I know! Let's go kill him!"
  "But Captain, even if we do, we will still have no clue on how to reach Raftel... And it's not like he's going to tell us what the One Piece is..."
  "Shut up!!! I'll give him pie in return for Roger's treasure, and then I'll kill him!! Zehahahahahah"

Beautiful.

[Miss Saturday]

Nobody's voted for Kong? Really?
But.. you guys know that he IS Kaido, right? And the man that killed Roger on top of that?

[securely straps tinfoil on]

[fapfapfap]

I'm surprised so many people voted for Blackbeard. I think BB will be the strongest villain in the series but considering Luffy has to overcome him before getting One Piece and given Whitebeard's omen of the coming showdown against the WG after someone finds it that pretty much guarantees BB won't be the last. I said they'll be the Gorosei since they're the top of the food chain in the World Government. Kong is just an underling to the Gorosei.

[Monkey King]

@Jules197:

Let's just agree to disagree for now, until one of us is proven wrong.

I don't agree to that. Mostly because your theories are full of holes and extremely narratively unsatisfying.

Excuse me? You were the one who brought this subject up in order to prove your point.

You are confused about what the debate is about, I didn't even mention who brought it up or why. You simply don't understand that part of the discussion.

You basically said that Luffy won't have to defeat Blackbeard in order to reach Raftel, because Roger also didn't have to defeat Whitebeard. YOU were the one who used this argument to support your theory.

Again, you don't understand the argument being made there. You're hearing me discuss those people, and just leaping to an assumption of why I brought it up and what I'm trying to say. Unsurprisingly you are proving not so great at reading comprehension.
Let me lay it out to you one last time:
-Lots of posters just assume that to become Pirate King you HAVE to defeat rival crews like it's a video game tournament or something.
-It is not this
-Luffy or anyone hypothetically could reach Raftel and claim the treasure without having defeated the rivals in combat.
-Because it is not and never has been about combat. Combat is a byproduct of it.

The point being that just assuming that Blackbeard would be taken out prior to Raftel is baseless and lazy reasoning. Faulty even.

You don't have to fight and destroy any pirate crew to get to Raftel, no. As a matter of fact, you don't HAVE to fight anyone. Luffy didn't HAVE to fight Crocodile. Nor Enel, nor Lucci, nor Moriah, nor Magellan, nor ANYONE. He fought them because they were in his way, because they were threatening the people he cared about, because they were doing things Luffy didn't agree with, etc.

Thanks for bringing up Magellan lol.

Blackbeard will eventually be in Luffy's way to becoming the Pirate King.

Literally? Because you're arguing literally.

He is partially responsible for Ace's death, and will most likely be responsible for Shanks' as well (I think we both support this theory). Luffy will face him because he WANTS to, just like he has done with everyone else in the story so far.

Yes just like Luffy has rushed off to defeat Akainu because of Ace.

But no, you believe Luffy will just ignore Blackbeard and race to Raftel (just like he ignored Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, etc. and moved to the next island, right? I mean, from your point of view, it's not like he HAD to defeat them in order to reach the next island, am I correct?)

Thank you once again for bringing up Magellan and people responsible for Ace's death.
Also it's extremely possible for Shanks and crew to be wiped out and for the news not to reach Luffy and company until later.

Because you make it sound as if reaching Raftel will be more of a race to see who crosses the finishing line first.

• Blackbeard's side:
  "Dammit, Straw Hat got there first… It's my fault, I was distracted eating pies. What to do, what to do... I know! Let's go kill him!"
  "But Captain, even if we do, we will still have no clue on how to reach Raftel... And it's not like he's going to tell us what the One Piece is..."
  "Shut up!!! I'll give him pie in return for Roger's treasure, and then I'll kill him!! Zehahahahahah"

People sneaking in behind heroes (or villains) when the latter open the magic door/box/lamp and taking advantage of their achievement has a long and rich history in stories.
Why it was attempted several times in Dragonball alone.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@fapfapfap:

I'm surprised so many people voted for Blackbeard. I think BB will be the strongest villain in the series but considering Luffy has to overcome him before getting One Piece and given Whitebeard's omen of the coming showdown against the WG after someone finds it that pretty much guarantees BB won't be the last. I said they'll be the Gorosei since they're the top of the food chain in the World Government. Kong is just an underling to the Gorosei.

1. Nothing whatsoever says Blackbeard HAS to be defeated before Raftel.
2. Whitebeard didn't say anything about the WG being the end all be all of his claim. He said the world would experience great upheaval. Would that involve the WG? Significantly even? Absolutely. But now explain to me why you got it in your head that this would be ALL it would involve?

[fapfapfap]

Except both Luffy AND Blackbeard are on a quest to get One Piece. Roger didn't have to defeat Whitebeard to get the Raftel because Whitebeard didn't care about Raftel and One Piece in the first place. As far as what's been indicated in the series, Luffy and BB are on the same course.

I think a big X factor in this discussion that hasn't been mentioned is the national treasure of Mariejois that Doflamingo was talking about. The way he described it made it seem like it almost rivaled that of One Piece or it could just be an ancient weapon. Maybe BB just calls it quits and just goes for Mariejois instead. Although it seems like only the CDs know about this treasure maybe that point is moot.

[hover]

@fapfapfap:

I'm surprised so many people voted for Blackbeard. I think BB will be the strongest villain in the series but considering Luffy has to overcome him before getting One Piece and given Whitebeard's omen of the coming showdown against the WG after someone finds it that pretty much guarantees BB won't be the last. I said they'll be the Gorosei since they're the top of the food chain in the World Government. Kong is just an underling to the Gorosei.

! Big mom is going to be the final boss because she is blackbeard's mom and she is going to get revenge after Luffy beats him lol!
! JUST JOKING THE REAL LAST BAD GUY WILL BE ENEL LOL!

I LIED IT REALLY IS BIG MOM TROLOL!
!

[choperman]

can someone send me a link to Monkey King's theory on the whole Black Beard being the final villain and being beaten after Raftel instead of before it, instead of all the other villains

I agree with him, I just wanted to see him list out his reasoning because I find it extremely interesting…. is there like one big giant post or is it scattered around all over the new thread?

[Monquito]

Luffy handles the WG, and Dragon watches.

[Monkey King]

@fapfapfap:

Except both Luffy AND Blackbeard are on a quest to get One Piece.

Oh really? Please quote Blackbeard's goal for me from the manga.

Roger didn't have to defeat Whitebeard to get the Raftel because Whitebeard didn't care about Raftel and One Piece in the first place. As far as what's been indicated in the series, Luffy and BB are on the same course.

It's not an actual course, this isn't a video game.

I think a big X factor in this discussion that hasn't been mentioned is the national treasure of Mariejois that Doflamingo was talking about. The way he described it made it seem like it almost rivaled that of One Piece or it could just be an ancient weapon.

lol at "just an ancient weapon". Wait though, are you saying you actually think the One Piece is gems and gold and stuff like that? Wow, you're absolutely not qualified for this thread if so.

Maybe BB just calls it quits and just goes for Mariejois instead. Although it seems like only the CDs know about this treasure maybe that point is moot.

Calls it quit and goes for what? What in the treasure?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@choperman:

can someone send me a link to Monkey King's theory on the whole Black Beard being the final villain and being beaten after Raftel instead of before it, instead of all the other villains

I agree with him, I just wanted to see him list out his reasoning because I find it extremely interesting…. is there like one big giant post or is it scattered around all over the new thread?

It's scattered over the old thread. You can click the post number next to a thread and see the top posters and click on their name to see all their posts in the thread.

[Jules197]

This post is deleted!

[Jules197]

@Monkey:

Oh really? Please quote Blackbeard's goal for me from the manga.

Chapter 440, go reread it. Blackbeard clearly states that is goal is to become the Pirate King.

[desa]

@choperman:

can someone send me a link to Monkey King's theory on the whole Black Beard being the final villain and being beaten after Raftel instead of before it, instead of all the other villains

I agree with him, I just wanted to see him list out his reasoning because I find it extremely interesting…. is there like one big giant post or is it scattered around all over the new thread?

You're suppose to deduce his theory from his answers in the final villain thread. You also have what he thinks of the WG, why Blackbeard his thematically a good villain, the real history being a grey matter and some other things… You should check it out if you have the time.

But from what I remember.
1-Luffy find one piece
2-Final war( a real one with different battles and different factions).
3-Blackbeard is one of the faction with possibly a ancient weapon
4-He has killed Shanks so we can properly hate.
5- Blackbeard and crew are the last important battle of Luffy in this war.

[hover]

Blackbeard finding a ancient weapon Roger left on Raftel before straw hats get there and Luffy and his crew finding the other stuff Blackbeard left such as the thing Robin wants to read which says the world govt use to be good and the D's were the bad guys and that joy boy allied with the world govt at the time to destroy the evil D king which is related to Blackbeard.

Blackbeard uses the ancient weapon to destroy Mariejois which is the world govts main base then the marines+straw hats and their allies vs Blackbeard pirates + all their allied pirates that joined up from all the yonkou that were defeated.

[Monkey King]

@Jules197:

Amazing how you just ignored everything I just said and gave me stupid replies like:

lol how dense are you dude.
You make a list of VILLAINS LUFFY STOPPED AND FOUGHT IN SPITE OF HAVING TO JUST LIKE HE ALWAYS DOES.
And included a villain where in fact he did not end up doing this at all.
You defeated your own argument. So like, thank you.

You did it again later when you simultaneously tried arguing that Luffy would never let a hated foe unmolested, but you brought up the death of Ace as motive….which of course makes no sense since Luffy isn't off to take down Akainu over all else. So thanks again.

Also I'm pretty sure sarcasm and satire play a role in discussion and point making as much in Portuguese as English. So I really can't explain why you are seeing me crack a joke, and immediately write it off as filler. Or more likely, that's an excuse on your part.

• So far in the series, Luffy has never avoided a fight,

Magellan, Akainu, Kizaru, Smoker, Sentomaru (both before and after time-skip). Also these are conflicts that were literally in front of him, why are you assuming that has to happened with Blackbeard before Raftel?

Meaning, all the people he has fought so far, he has done so because he WANTED to. That's Luffy, he does whatever he feels like.

What a useless vague thing to say.
So when Luffy directly attacks someone it's because he feels like it.
But when he avoids going after someone what's that? Also what he feels like I suppose.
So you're really saying nothing at all here.

And if he feels someone is in his way or is threatening the people he cares, he fights them. When the time comes, Luffy will not ignore Blackbeard and just race to Raftel as you suggest.

Why would he go after Blackbeard with Raftel in front of him,

He will fight him because he WANTS to, he will not delay their confrontation and ignore an enemy. He's never done it before, and I can't see any reason why he should do it in the future;

He needs a direct motive for this to make any sense. So once again you're just assuming he will have one at that point. Otherwise what you're saying falls apart.

• Unlike you seem to suggest, fighting IS a big part of the series

Genre wise and content wise, which are entirely different things than the in-story quest for a treasure island. Which shockingly enough is accomplished by reaching the treasure island and getting the treasure. Not by defeating Goro and Shang Tsung first.

After Sabo's "death", Luffy vowed that he would become stronger so that he wouldn't lose anyone again. After Ace's death, Luffy spent 2 years training in order to become stronger. Again, fighting is a HUGE part of the series. Fighting is how Luffy overcomes his opponents, it's how he crushes their dreams, it's how he protects the ones he cares about, it's how he becomes closer to being the Pirate King;

Adventuring seems to have skipped your mind, but that's the actual point of everything he does. Fighting is a byproduct of that.
His entire literal goal is to accomplish a great adventure. Everything else is secondary, period.

• One does not have to crush pirate crews in order to reach Raftel, we both agree on this. But it is no race either, as you seem to suggest.

Where did I suggest it was a race. I'm merely pointing out that the point of the adventure to reach Raftel, is to reach Raftel. Not to defeat a end boss.

It is NOT a race. If it were, then Luffy wouldn't stand much of a chance, considering he started with more than 20 years of delay.

Clearly there is some secret or hidden aspect(s) to reaching Raftel. It's obviously not just sitting there at the end in plain view. Which is great in illustrating that no fighting isn't what everything in OP is about. Luffy isn't going to punch his way to access Raftel.

• Shanks does not have to die for Luffy to want to fight Blackbeard (even though I do think he will die). Luffy has more than enough reasons already for wanting to defeat him.

Just about as wrong as can be. Luffy has shown extremely little passion toward Blackbeard compared to Akainu.
Look at his most recent reaction to him, when he heard him over the phone. He gave a stern frown, and that was it.
Luffy currently does not like Blackbeard. That's about it. There is no vendetta established.

On Punk Hazard Luffy pretty much said he wants to defeat the Yonko,

With a huge smile and casual nature. It was not whatsoever a solemn vow. And he didn't mention Blackbeard by name.

and even if Blackbeard wasn't one of them, he would want to fight him anyway due to what happened to Ace;

Luffy's Ace hate is directed at Akainu.

• When Luffy reaches the later islands of the New World and the threat of Blackbeard is right in his face, Luffy WILL fight him.

We have no idea exactly what things are like in the later islands. How things are set up, where the Yonkou leaders hang out, how hands on they are, whether Blackbeard is busy at doing anything. You're talking like there will just be BLACKBEARD ISLAND where the crew goes and the BLACKBEARD ARC happens.

Even if he discovers how to get to Raftel before, he will still deal with Blackbeard first. Why? Once again, because getting to Raftel is not a freaking race,

If Luffy figures out how to reach it, and still lacks a direct vendetta with Blackbeard, why wouldn't he complete his quest?

and because Luffy has never avoided confrontation with anyone, nor will he;

Magellan, Smoker, Kizaru, Sentomaru, Akainu..

• Look at what happened in Impel Down. Ace's life was at stake and Luffy was in a hurry to escape the prison and get to Marineford, but as soon as he saw Blackbeard he had a go at him.

Then he stopped with a little bit of persuasion from someone who wasn't even his current crewmate. He has shown zero anger toward Blackbeard for Ace since, showing how heat of the moment that was.

Were it not for Jinbe, the fight would have dragged.

Good point, now that Luffy is surrounded by no close confidantes he will be totally out of control.

This happened when Luffy was in a HURRY to save his brother's life. What makes you think Luffy will act any differently when he crosses paths with Blackbeard again, independently of knowing how to get to Raftel or not?

What makes you think they'll have a direct confrontation before Raftel.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Jules197:

Chapter 440, go reread it. Blackbeard clearly states that is goal is to become the Pirate King.

Please quote for me the speech balloon prior to that.

[Jules197]

@Monkey:

Please quote for me the speech balloon prior to that.

Before that, Blackbeard said he wants to conquer to world. What is your point? Pirates have different views on what it means to be Pirate King.

When Rayleigh asked Luffy if he was capable of conquering the Grand Line, Luffy replied that he does not want to conquer anything, he just believes that the person with the most freedom in the whole world is the Pirate King. Had Rayleigh asked the same question to Teach, what do you think he would have replied? It's not difficult to imagine, considering he straight out answered this question in his conversation with Ace - he wants to conquer the world and become the Pirate King.

They have the same goal, period. The only difference is what they plan to do once they achieve it.

[andre]

@Jules197:

Before that, Blackbeard said he wants to conquer to world. What is your point? Pirates have different views on what it means to be Pirate King.

When Rayleigh asked Luffy if he was capable of conquering the Grand Line, Luffy replied that he does not want to conquer anything, he just believes that the person with the most freedom in the whole world is the Pirate King. Had Rayleigh asked the same question to Teach, what do you think he would have replied? It's not difficult to imagine, considering he straight out answered this question in his conversation with Ace - he wants to conquer the world and become the Pirate King.

They have the same goal, period. The only difference is what they plan to do once they achieve it.

I think the point he's trying to make is that he isn't necessarily seeking out One Piece as an active part of his plan to become Pirate King. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.

[Jules197]

@andre:

I think the point he's trying to make is that he isn't necessarily seeking out One Piece as an active part of his plan to become Pirate King. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.

But of course he is. He clearly states he wants to become the Pirate King and conquer the world. Those two are goals are related, and it's not like he would drop one in order to achieve the other.

EDIT: also, you cannot become Pirate King without finding the One Piece. In essence, they represent a single goal.