General 'Haki' Discussion

Jabra

Lucci could use friction to fire off burning shigans.

That was anime filler.

Beowulf89

…huh. So it is. Weird.

Anyway, the others hold firm.

Roland_Deschain

rayleigh said haki is no different than what we´d call presence, spirit or aura. as such asura should have "haki" as its source.
that it doesn´t fall exactly into the 3 predefined categories is of no concern, its still about conviction/fighting spirit/whaterveryoumaycallit, and, as such, haki

desa

Armor type, sensing type and intimidating type. If you can't put it in those three category it is no haki.

benjamminbrown

So call it intimidating type. Do we know that the clones are real? Maybe they're just projections that only Zoro's enemy can see.

Definitely intimidated Kaku, anyway: He seemed pretty freaked by the "demon god" that Zoro brought out.

Tangaroa

Swordsman's battle auras seem to be a quasi-conquerors haki. Maybe a step before learning it properly? It seems to have elements of observation and armor as well, without the breadth of those abilities. Maybe it's more connected to Roger's ability to hear the voices of all things?

RomanceDawn

@benjamminbrown:

So call it intimidating type. Do we know that the clones are real? Maybe they're just projections that only Zoro's enemy can see.

Definitely intimidated Kaku, anyway: He seemed pretty freaked by the "demon god" that Zoro brought out.

During Saboady, Chopper made the comment that Zoro turned into three. Anyone can see it apparently.

NER

I don't see how Asura needs any explaination really.

Zoro's battle lust and demonic like aura made made it happen, thats all. :L

ZoroXTashigi

I think 3 types of HAKI:

CoC = intimidating type, can make people who didn't have enough spirit becomes fainted or scared, and also can be used for supplement within fight (eg rayleigh using CoC to stop the bomb blast for a moment)
CoA = armor type, hardening parts of the body and the weapons used so it can be used as strong defense and a deadly weapon.
CoO = sensors type, to sense and predict enemy strength, direction of enemy attack, and the number of enemies.

…. Zoro Asura, Sanji Diable Jambe, Cp 9 Tekkai, Ivankov Newkama Kempo, Jinbei Fishman Karate .... are fighting stile not a HAKI.

note: folk, please correct me if i'm wrong.

ibaldesu

@NER:

I don't see how Asura needs any explaination really.

Zoro's battle lust and demonic like aura made made it happen, thats all. :L

I wish those demonic auras originated from his cursed sword, the type of the swords hasn't been discussed again since Loguetown, I hope there's some explanations from a swordsmith possibly in Wano, but not something cliche like "your sword has a soul". (at least there's a sword in Wano that emits flame and another sword that sparks electricity)

RobZilla

I dunno why people are so obsessed about having exactly what Asura was explained to them.

When things like this are left without an exact explanation they're generally much cooler.

Better to leave it vague.

The alternative is most likely an explanation of Asura that parallels the midichlorian explanation of the force in star wars ie really kinda ruins the mystique.

King Cannon

@RobZilla:

I dunno why people are so obsessed about having exactly what Asura was explained to them.

When things like this are left without an exact explanation they're generally much cooler.

Better to leave it vague.

The alternative is most likely an explanation of Asura that parallels the midichlorian explanation of the force in star wars ie really kinda ruins the mystique.

Let's just say a wizard did it.

RobZilla

@King:

Let's just say a wizard did it.

We have a deal, sir.

zxcv11791

Zoro's Asura has to be something to do with his cursed sword kietsu. Its been stated it gives off an unpleasant demonic energy, and I'm guessing Zoro just harnessed it turned it into something physical. His other swords have some sort of purpose and history behind them, kietsu is the only one that largely remained unexplained.

Carmilla

I'm sure Asura will be back. With explanation I hope.
And Haki is 3 types, but those 3 types might have the capabilities we aren't aware of yet.

hosemisnuba

Busoshoku Haki is by far the worst retcon in the entire manga. At the beginning, it was non existent; now, every boy and their mother has it. I mean, come on, Oda: you had busoshoku haki on Akainu to kill Ace, but you ultimately decided to go the elemental rock-paper-scizzor route, and say, "magma beats fire, gwaaaaaahhhh". Honestly, if Oda had simply established CoA, and haki for that matter, as a thing at the beginning of the series, One Piece would be a much better manga. EDIT:Not saying it isn't a good manga, because, quite frankly, its my definitely my favorite.

King Cannon

@hosemisnuba:

Busoshoku Haki is by far the worst retcon in the entire manga. At the beginning, it was non existent; now, every boy and their mother has it. I mean, come on, Oda: you had busoshoku haki on Akainu to kill Ace, but you ultimately decided to go the elemental rock-paper-scizzor route, and say, "magma beats fire, gwaaaaaahhhh". Honestly, if Oda had simply established CoA, and haki for that matter, as a thing at the beginning of the series, One Piece would be a much better manga. EDIT:Not saying it isn't a good manga, because, quite frankly, its my definitely my favorite.

You might be half-correct.

ZoroXTashigi

@hosemisnuba:

"magma beats fire, gwaaaaaahhhh".

Nothing wrong with this thought… Magma (most between 700 - 1300 C, but also can reach 1600 C) ≥ white fire (1300 - 1500 C) > orange fire ( 1.100 - 1200 C) > red fire (500 -1000 C).

Carmilla

@hosemisnuba:

Busoshoku Haki is by far the worst retcon in the entire manga. At the beginning, it was non existent; now, every boy and their mother has it. I mean, come on, Oda: you had busoshoku haki on Akainu to kill Ace, but you ultimately decided to go the elemental rock-paper-scizzor route, and say, "magma beats fire, gwaaaaaahhhh". Honestly, if Oda had simply established CoA, and haki for that matter, as a thing at the beginning of the series, One Piece would be a much better manga. EDIT:Not saying it isn't a good manga, because, quite frankly, its my definitely my favorite.

Haki can't disable devil fruit powers.
If Akainu's df weren't to be able to win over Ace's, his fire would burn Akainu. (If you saw Ace had fire around him during that moment) That's why magma beats fire was necessary.

Darth

@ZoroXTashigi:

Nothing wrong with this thought… Magma (most between 700 - 1300 C, but also can reach 1600 C) ≥ white fire (1300 - 1500 C) > orange fire ( 1.100 - 1200 C) > red fire (500 -1000 C).

And honestly? Considering his feats, Akainu's magma can be considered to be even hotter. Which isn't that out of place. Temperature of magma depends on it's composition. It is teoreticaly possible, with right composition of elements, for magma to be hotter than 1600 C.

Luca

depending on the oxigen and the environments, in the right ones, fire can burn up to 5000 C

Darth

@LordEnel:

depending on the oxigen and the environments, in the right ones, fire can burn up to 5000 C

Yep, but A) That's an envirement thing. You are not changing the fire itself B) Ace's fire is only orange, so… yeah C) There would be very little visual change to Akainu's magma depending on it's composition, which isn't true for fire, because it would change it's color.

Cymelion

I wonder if Luffy is emmitting Haki to his Crew when on board the Sunny to get them used to the effect of it?

Similar to how Shanks walked onto Whitebeards boat he was able to project a constant amount which knocked out WB's weaker members but the commanders who were able to withstand it were unaffected.
I know that CoC is meant to be able to be directed at people - and at Fishmen Island he walked into the middle to take out half the opponents and no one else.

Lets face it the only time they are going to face CoC is when they are battling someone in the new world so it would make sense that Rayleigh suggested to Luffy he use it around his crew slowly to get them used to his power. It's obvious that the Yonkou should all have it so they may try to knock out his crew while fighting.

It's still to early to say though, but I would be curious to see how things are presented when he does use it around his crew.

Shadowgreed

@Cymelion:

I wonder if Luffy is emmitting Haki to his Crew when on board the Sunny to get them used to the effect of it?

Similar to how Shanks walked onto Whitebeards boat he was able to project a constant amount which knocked out WB's weaker members but the commanders who were able to withstand it were unaffected.
I know that CoC is meant to be able to be directed at people - and at Fishmen Island he walked into the middle to take out half the opponents and no one else.

Lets face it the only time they are going to face CoC is when they are battling someone in the new world so it would make sense that Rayleigh suggested to Luffy he use it around his crew slowly to get them used to his power. It's obvious that the Yonkou should all have it so they may try to knock out his crew while fighting.

It's still to early to say though, but I would be curious to see how things are presented when he does use it around his crew.

None of the Stawhats will faint by Luffy's or anyone's haki, those guy aren't weak willed.

Cymelion

@Shadowgreed:

None of the Stawhats will faint by Luffy's or anyone's haki, those guy aren't weak willed.

I don't know - For AOE blast sure - thats for weaker fodder - but a Concentrated blast at 1 SH might be a bit much for them - the only ones I could confidently say could brush it off would be the Monster Trio.

mangaone

I bet shanks can make luffy crew faint

Shadowgreed

@Cymelion:

I don't know - For AOE blast sure - thats for weaker fodder - but a Concentrated blast at 1 SH might be a bit much for them - the only ones I could confidently say could brush it off would be the Monster Trio.

Well a concentrated blast might do the trick on some of them as they're now.

RobZilla

Since they were able to resist Rayleigh's blast, I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing any of the SH's fainting due to haki.

Same goes for the others in the auction house that also managed to avoid fainting.

Red Hawk

Luffy also did a blast at Fishman Island so we can safely assume that the Straw Hats won't faint.

KingBepo

@RobZilla:

Since they were able to resist Rayleigh's blast, I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing any of the SH's fainting due to haki.

Same goes for the others in the auction house that also managed to avoid fainting.

Maybe I'm wrong but if i remember you can controll your haki to use it only on selected persons.
i always thought that Rayleigh just didn't want to use it on the Strawhats.

desa

@RobZilla:

Since they were able to resist Rayleigh's blast, I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing any of the SH's fainting due to haki.

Same goes for the others in the auction house that also managed to avoid fainting.

Whether or not Rayleigh used it on the strawhats is always debated. So it cannot be used as a fact.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Red:

Luffy also did a blast at Fishman Island so we can safely assume that the Straw Hats won't faint.

He wouldn't target his crew.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Shadowgreed:

None of the Stawhats will faint by Luffy's or anyone's haki, those guy aren't weak willed.

If I thought that thing had to do with will I would see Usopp fainted.

Shadowgreed

@desa:

If I thought that thing had to do with will I would see Usopp fainted.

Usopp came to mind when I wrote that post and that's why I said on my second post that it can work on some of them as they are right now. I don't see it working on Usopp after this arc though.

Red Hawk

@desa:

Whether or not Rayleigh used it on the strawhats is always debated. So it cannot be used as a fact.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

He wouldn't target his crew.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

If I thought that thing had to do with will I would see Usopp fainted.

I'm pretty that a Haki blast affects everyone. You can't pinpoint a person and use Conquerer's Haki only on him/her.

Rune.

I think Rayleigh targetted 1 person at the auction house (when Cami was being picked on). I think for Haki burst, you can target individual or group. The hardest part could be targetting individuals within a group (if that makes sense).

King Cannon

@Red:

I'm pretty that a Haki blast affects everyone. You can't pinpoint a person and use Conquerer's Haki only on him/her.

Yes, you can. He didn't target the Straw Hats, which is why he commented on the Kid Pirates and the Heart Pirates resisting it (but not Usopp, Nami, Pappug, etc…).

Red Hawk

@King:

Yes, you can. He didn't target the Straw Hats, which is why he commented on the Kid Pirates and the Heart Pirates resisting it (but not Usopp, Nami, Pappug, etc…).

Usopp wasn't there at that time. Idk about the other two. Conquerer's Haki affects everyone around it. Maybe Rayleigh mastered the technique of pinpointing people, but Luffy hasn't reached that stage yet.

King Cannon

@Red:

Usopp wasn't there at that time. Idk about the other two. Conquerer's Haki affects everyone around it. Maybe Rayleigh mastered the technique of pinpointing people, but Luffy hasn't reached that stage yet.

Notice here how Shalulia gets knocked out while Camie is fine despite being right beside her.

In the same page, you can see Usopp there too.

Here's Pappug.

Cymelion

@Red:

I'm pretty that a Haki blast affects everyone. You can't pinpoint a person and use Conquerer's Haki only on him/her.

You can definitely focus it on one subject - Shown by Rayleigh and Luffy on the training island.

Which is what I am getting at - an AOE CoC blast is going to be weaker than a directed blast - since the SH's are not fodder AOE isn't going to work no matter who uses it - but a concentrated blast focused solely on Usopp or Nami or Chopper might just knock them over - Brooke Robin Franky could go either way - Sanji Zoro and Luffy would tank that blast with little to no effect I believe.

Red Hawk

What I'm trying to say is that Rayleigh can focus it on one person but Luffy cannot. If Luffy did an CoC blast on front of Usopp or Nami. They would be knocked out. I believe that Chopper has moved out of the "weak trio"

Shadowgreed

@Red:

What I'm trying to say is that Rayleigh can focus it on one person but Luffy cannot. If Luffy did an CoC blast on front of Usopp or Nami. They would be knocked out. I believe that Chopper has moved out of the "weak trio"

What makes you think that Luffy cannot pinpoint his opponents using Haki and what makes you think that Luffy's haki will be able to knock Usopp or Nami?

Red Hawk

@Shadowgreed:

What makes you think that Luffy cannot pinpoint his opponents using Haki and what makes you think that Luffy's haki will be able to knock Usopp or Nami?

Honestly, we haven't seen the extent of Nami's and Usopp's strength of mind so I'm just assuming at the moment. As for Luffy, you notice that he mastered the CoC but he does not know how to pinpoint it. At Marineford, it was a random burst of emotions. At Fishman Island, he walked at least 100 feet away from the crew, into the center of the circle and blasted it. The Conquerer's Haki has a radius and anyone within that radius gets affected. Somehow, Rayleigh (being the badass that he is) can blast on certain people.

DS Ornstein

Can anyone explain to me why if someone has armament haki that they wouldn't just keep it on all the time? Why turn it on and off when you can just keep it on all the time and prevent the risk for a surprise attack or something? Unless we're talking about someone like Luffy where the haki can prevent Luffy from stretching, which I"m not even sure has been shown to be the case, but with someone like Vergo, why doesn't he just keep it on all the time? Does anybody know? Do you need think about it constantly or it will turn off if you don't? Or is it like a light switch where you can turn it on, not really worry think it, and then turn it off? Does it require some sort of energy, which is why you don't keep it on all the time?

Does anybody have any answers?

King Cannon

@DS:

Can anyone explain to me why if someone has armament haki that they wouldn't just keep it on all the time? Why turn it on and off when you can just keep it on all the time and prevent the risk for a surprise attack or something? Unless we're talking about someone like Luffy where the haki can prevent Luffy from stretching, which I"m not even sure has been shown to be the case, but with someone like Vergo, why doesn't he just keep it on all the time? Does anybody know? Do you need think about it constantly or it will turn off if you don't? Or is it like a light switch where you can turn it on, not really worry think it, and then turn it off? Does it require some sort of energy, which is why you don't keep it on all the time?

Does anybody have any answers?

It should take stamina, like most physical activities.

nomansland

@Red:

I believe that Chopper has moved out of the "weak trio"

Oda has always said that the weak trio will always be the weak trio of the crew.

DaeJi

@DS:

Can anyone explain to me why if someone has armament haki that they wouldn't just keep it on all the time? Why turn it on and off when you can just keep it on all the time and prevent the risk for a surprise attack or something? Unless we're talking about someone like Luffy where the haki can prevent Luffy from stretching, which I"m not even sure has been shown to be the case, but with someone like Vergo, why doesn't he just keep it on all the time? Does anybody know? Do you need think about it constantly or it will turn off if you don't? Or is it like a light switch where you can turn it on, not really worry think it, and then turn it off? Does it require some sort of energy, which is why you don't keep it on all the time?

Does anybody have any answers?

Despite the way it was described by Rayleigh color of armament haki hasn't been shown to work like armor. When used for defense, the person defending still blocks. It seems to make the user tougher, like the Iron Body technique, though it doesn't seem as strong in my opinion.

Shadowgreed

@nomansland:

Oda has always said that the weak trio will always be the weak trio of the crew.

Rumors, rumors everywhere!

King Cannon

@nomansland:

Oda has always said that the weak trio will always be the weak trio of the crew.

No, that's only Usopp.

DS Ornstein

@King:

It should take stamina, like most physical activities.

That's the thing though, ti's not physical, it's spiritual, so it shouldn't take stamina in the traditional sense. Maybe it might take mental stamina, like trying to focus on one thing for an extended period of time, but it's nothing like wearing heavy armor for long periods of time or holding up something for a long period of time.

RomanceDawn

@DS:

Can anyone explain to me why if someone has armament haki that they wouldn't just keep it on all the time? Why turn it on and off when you can just keep it on all the time and prevent the risk for a surprise attack or something? Unless we're talking about someone like Luffy where the haki can prevent Luffy from stretching, which I"m not even sure has been shown to be the case, but with someone like Vergo, why doesn't he just keep it on all the time? Does anybody know? Do you need think about it constantly or it will turn off if you don't? Or is it like a light switch where you can turn it on, not really worry think it, and then turn it off? Does it require some sort of energy, which is why you don't keep it on all the time?

Does anybody have any answers?

Chi in our world isn't magic or the work of god like some might believe but it is basically bio electric energy.

Using chi/ki in real life consumes energy one way or another. It can exuast the user if they are using it for attacking or healing. I can only assume since that's what armament Haki is pretty much based on it follows similar rules of logic. Still we don't really have an answer if the question is why isn't Vergo just a big walking jet black man all the time but chances are it does require some concentration and use of energy.

As far as observation users are concerned some characters like Luffy seem to need to focus on using that technique while characters like Aisa just have it running on automatic.

I have a question about Haki. What is the general consensus on the blackening of the limbs and weapons? Rayleigh said Haki is like an invisible armor, yet we know the characters can see the black coating, at least I think that's what's intended by Oda's character Black Fist Zepher(?) from that last movie. Are we as readers seeing it to know its equipped and only us, or do the characters see it as well?

I suppose my other question would be is the blackened hardening just a higher level technique from the foundation that is the invisible armament?

Rune.

Hey RomanceDawn,

I always thought that us seeing the blackened coating was only due to Character's awareness of Haki (whether they sense it, feel it, etc..). I think it's possible Haki was used pre-timeskip and invisible to us (readers) because Luffy and co could not sense it at the time or were unaware of its existence. Example: Garp hitting young Luffy / pre-TS Luffy and it hurts !!!! But no one knows why vs Post TS where Luffy and co (albeit maybe not all) can sense and are aware of Haki.

Edit:

Also Pre TS - Kuja warrior arrows coated with Haki that we could not see (could not see it on any weapon at the time).