It's really straight forward. Lol
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@Juvar:
If anyone needed further proof; Kizaru was dispatched from Mariejois to Shabondy and was there within minutes. He travelled by ship. Try and explain how it's further than 400km again. All your "reason" has not ever explained this.Again, here's logical reasoning, which you seem incapable of:
I'm guessing what you wanted was for me to address each of these points individually, though as you'll see, I've basically already addressed all of them.
First, the deployment of Kizaru from Mariejois: I've already explained that the Strawhats, who were all present at the skirmish outside the auction house, were shown shooting the shit with Rayleigh at Shakky's. Accounting for travel time between the groves and time to relax/eat, it is simple to see that SEVERAL HOURS (notice that I am saying the plural, not singular, word here) have passed while Kizaru is in transit to the Archipelago.
@Juvar:
1. Shabondy is right next to Marineford.
Geographically. Not to rehash things, but just because things appear close to each other on a map does NOT mean that their actual distance has been given. Unless, of course, it has been explicitly given. Which it hasn't.
What we HAVE seen is this: The Supernovas and crews sailed from Shabondy to Marineford during the Whitebeard War. We don't really know how long the war took, since all time cues vanished when all that shit hit the fan. Because of this, we also have no real idea of how long it took for everyone to get there.
If everyone was sailing as fast as they could to get there, which they would do to see such a historic event, they would probably be sailing at speeds in excess of 15 knots, or about 30 km/h. If the Whitebeard war took a few hours or more, then this gives plenty of time for the Supernovas to cover approximately 80 km, which I am proposing is the distance between these locations, before the climax.
This is all assuming that they aren't using any special currents to help get there faster. You'll see later in my post that there is reason to believe that such currents do, in fact, exist and could quite easily be taken advantage of. This only helps my argument.
@Juvar:
2. Marineford is also right next to Mariejois. - evidence for both of these points comes from direct statements, Oda's maps, as well as the time that it takes to travel between these points.
All of the direct statements you mention are characters basically saying that places are "nearby". Geographically, though, we should expect entire islands and archipelagos, which are probably at least ten kilometers in size THEMSELVES, to be separated by many times their own size.
Oda's maps are frequently drawn out of scale.
What I understand is that you are saying that because it only took the Strawhats several hours to travel from the Redline to rescuing Hachi and then to Shabondy, Marineford must be under 100km away from the Redline.
What I've already said many times is that if the Strawhats are sailing very fast (in excess of 15 knots) and taking advantage of prevailing winds and ocean currents (as they should with such a phenomenal navigator), covering distances of hundreds of kilometers over the course of a day is not unreasonable in the slightest.
In fact, it's totally freaking reasonable.
Also, fucking Coup de Burst. The ship goes so fast that it literally flies (albeit a limited distance of probably about 1km or less).
@Juvar:
3. A point elevated 10km above sea level (Red Line) is visible from about 380km away (on sea level).Therefore, it should have been visible from Shabondy and Marineford, proving it's either a mistake (AND NOT EVEN A GRAVE ONE FFS BUT SIMPLY A TINY LITTLE OMITTING OF DETAIL!!!!) or just "hidden through convenient angles"
If Marineford truly is closer than about 450km to the Redline, assuming it is 10km tall, then yes, you should be able to see the Redline from it. But we don't ever. It would be a pretty enormous geographical feature of the landscape, and equally hard to miss. Though I guess one could argue that we were never looking in the right direction, which is pretty much the only thing you have going for you other than a single poorly scaled map.
@Juvar:
4. The Buster Call dispatched from Marineford took half an hour to reach Enies Lobby.
The marines have paddlewheel ships that travel significantly faster than a sailboat. These literally are powerboats or speedboats as you keep mentioning. They can probably travel much faster than 20 knots, even, and just may be able to cover 80km in such a time, again assuming that they are taking advantage of prevailing winds and ocean currents.
Before you start arguing "well how could there be convenient ocean currents pointing both ways between these locations", consider the fact that we are in the Grandline. Next, consider that there is an enormous whirlpool being harnessed by the marines to travel between their three institutions, and that such an enormous vortex would surely shed many smaller vortices off to its sides. Remember all of the crazy whirlpools that started forming at Enies Lobby when the gates of justice opened? I'm saying that these MUST exist around the whirlpool, as long as there is no physical object to prevent them from forming.
These smaller vortices would definitely create localized surface currents which could easily be taken advantage of if a navigator knew what they were doing. For reference, consider rereading the race against the Foxy pirates during the Davy Back Fight.
And no, I'm not implying that the huge, at least 100km diameter, whirlpool is shedding tons of little vortices the size of a boat. Rather, these smaller vortices would probably be about one to ten kilometers in diameter each. Huge enough for a big sailboat to ride.
@Juvar:
5. Were the Red Line NOT visible from Enies Lobby, the distance has to be greater than 380km.
Agreed. I'm thinking that the three government institutions are only about 100km away from each other. If I'm right about Marineford being around 450km away from the Redline (which means it isn't visible), then clearly the Redline wouldn't be visible from anywhere that is farther away and/or lower to the surface of the ocean like Shabondy or Enies Lobby or Impel Down.
@Juvar:
6. It is impossible for the Buster Call to have travelled this distance, even 300km, in 30 minutes.Therefore, the Red Line has to be visible from Enies Lobby as well (provided it is 10km tall).
I think it is totally reasonable for the buster call to have been deployed a distance of 100km in 30 minutes, especially if they took advantage of the whirlpool. Remember that there is no wind on the whirlpool, so the ships aren't actually sailing. They are stationary with respect to the water they are floating in, but the water is obviously swirling them around at amazing speeds.
Also, fucking paddlewheels.
@Juvar:
There is no goddamn fault in this reasoning as long as we accept the height, so for the love of all your "physics PhD", apply yourself and figure it out already, you're being an embarrassment to the sciences.
You repeatedly insult my "math" and "logic", and say that I'm an "embarrassment to the sciences".
But my arguments have been clear as day since the beginning, and completely reasonable. It's disturbing that I've laid it out so plainly and yet you still can't seem to understand it in the slightest.
I HAVE applied myself, in the most literal sense of the word, taking my knowledge and writing it down on the internet for everyone to see. You, on the other hand, refuse to see the light. I call that blatant ignorance of truths, both obvious and not-so-obvious.
You insist that there are no special currents in the region except for the whirlpool.
I insist that there are special currents everywhere. It's the fucking Grandline.
Are we reading the same story?
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Also, Whack, sorry to have ignored your contribution.
I have completely ignored any atmospheric effects in viewing the Redline from a distance. It makes a lot of sense that these would allow for Marineford and Shabondy to be closer than my estimate of 450km, even if the Redline cliffs really are 10km above sea level.
They can probably see some wicked green flashes from Mariejois considering how crazy the weather is on the Grandline.