Ouki ? U mean Ou Hon right ?
Kingdom
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Eh, right, the young one. Not the Lipboogieman.
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Did you noticed that the characters' lips evolved as the story progress? I've seen some images of shin and kyoukai in raws and chinese scans with engorged lips.
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I believe he leads a 3000 man squad next. Whether that's an official rank or just something that happens, I'm unsure.
! With this week's chapter, Xin is officially a 3000-man commander.
Which is awesome, but I honestly thought he deserves a 5000 by now.
The amount of contribution he did in this war, not to mention slaying a general with his own hands, is immense!!
Oh well.
! Also revealed, he has "4000", "5000" before becoming a General. Three more ranks!
! PS: Oh, and for god's sake Xin, you're now a lord of a land… get some real CLOTHES and a house! lol -
What's the latest chapter #?
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Lastest chapter is 355.
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There are some things about the strength of nations and military rankings that confuse me in this series. I hope someone can answer some of these, even if it means spoilers from the yet un translated chapters.
First of all, Gaku Jou: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/188922/kingdom_v18_ch194_by_turnip-farmers/4
It seems that Renpa doesn't kill him, and not a lot of time passed between that battle and the Zhao-Qin war. The first question from his existence is why he didn't participate in that war, which could be as simple as he was stationed somewhere else, but is still iffy no doubt and raises the question of why he wasn't promoted to one of the Three Great heavens, considering one more space is open (it seems, at least), and that a huge amount of troop morale is attached to the title, as shown with Houken and Riboku.
But what seems contradictory is this page: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/171213/kingdom_v11_ch108_by_turnip-farmers/20
where (Mouku?) explains thatZhao can't move because it has no powerful candidates. If Gaku Jou, someone rumoured to be stronger than Renpa (even if that obviously wasn't the case), existed then surely he would stand out as a capable general capable of leading Zhao? His statement in general is very iffy since Zhao in fact seemed to have quite a few capable generals in the Zhao-Qin war that Qin must've known about.
Maybe it's just a mistake on the writer's part either in an attempt to make it seem that Zhao couldn't move, or he invented Gaku Jou as a one moment character to hype up Renpa. But if it's explained later on it'd be pretty relieving to know.Two, I remember somewhere in the recent chapter someone mentioned that Wei, after Gokei was killed, had no other powerful generals besides Renpa, and the latest chapter supports this with Haku Kisai being commander in chief. I find this disappointing, obviously, but also odd since, again in (Mouku's?) talk Zhao, with 5 capable generals and Gaku Jou, was made out to be weaker than Wei, which needed Duke Hou to be on the borders to watch for. So, to anyone who's read the raws, is this true? Does Wei ever show any powerful generals again or is Renpa all?
Thirdly and lastly, Mougu's two vice generals. As Vice Generals, are they positioned beneath generals such as Do Mon (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/190427/kingdom_v19_ch202_by_turnip-farmers/6) and Ragen (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/189545/kingdom_v19_ch196_by_turnip-farmers/10), as well as Ouki's generals?
Or are they Vice Generals as in the Vices to the army general, hence being between an ordinary general and the commander in chief rank wise. -
oh man, ive just fallen in love with this manga. just greatness in every chapter ive read… Such a great feeling to find and read a great story.
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The best discussion; resources for an english audience seems to be the mangafox discussion on Kingdom. There's like 3 history/Chinese buffs who updates everything.
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There are some things about the strength of nations and military rankings that confuse me in this series. I hope someone can answer some of these, even if it means spoilers from the yet un translated chapters.
First of all, Gaku Jou: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/188922/kingdom_v18_ch194_by_turnip-farmers/4
It seems that Renpa doesn't kill him, and not a lot of time passed between that battle and the Zhao-Qin war. The first question from his existence is why he didn't participate in that war, which could be as simple as he was stationed somewhere else, but is still iffy no doubt and raises the question of why he wasn't promoted to one of the Three Great heavens, considering one more space is open (it seems, at least), and that a huge amount of troop morale is attached to the title, as shown with Houken and Riboku.
But what seems contradictory is this page: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/171213/kingdom_v11_ch108_by_turnip-farmers/20
where (Mouku?) explains thatZhao can't move because it has no powerful candidates. If Gaku Jou, someone rumoured to be stronger than Renpa (even if that obviously wasn't the case), existed then surely he would stand out as a capable general capable of leading Zhao? His statement in general is very iffy since Zhao in fact seemed to have quite a few capable generals in the Zhao-Qin war that Qin must've known about.
Maybe it's just a mistake on the writer's part either in an attempt to make it seem that Zhao couldn't move, or he invented Gaku Jou as a one moment character to hype up Renpa. But if it's explained later on it'd be pretty relieving to know.It's not a writer's mistake. Gaku Jou (楽乗) was no longer with Zhao by this time in history.
Two, I remember somewhere in the recent chapter someone mentioned that Wei, after Gokei was killed, had no other powerful generals besides Renpa, and the latest chapter supports this with Haku Kisai being commander in chief. I find this disappointing, obviously, but also odd since, again in (Mouku's?) talk Zhao, with 5 capable generals and Gaku Jou, was made out to be weaker than Wei, which needed Duke Hou to be on the borders to watch for. So, to anyone who's read the raws, is this true? Does Wei ever show any powerful generals again or is Renpa all?
Shinryoukun (信陵君 Lord Xinling) was one of the four most prominent great lords of China, but unfortunately we likely won't see him in Kingdom as he's already passed away. After his death, Gi (Wei) had no prominent heroes to fend off Shin (Qin)'s invasion, and disappeared from existence. In other words, no.
Thirdly and lastly, Mougu's two vice generals. As Vice Generals, are they positioned beneath generals such as Do Mon (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/190427/kingdom_v19_ch202_by_turnip-farmers/6) and Ragen (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/189545/kingdom_v19_ch196_by_turnip-farmers/10), as well as Ouki's generals?
Or are they Vice Generals as in the Vices to the army general, hence being between an ordinary general and the commander in chief rank wise.Ouki's commanders do not have the same ranking system as Qin's main forces, and thus not called "generals".
This is likely to the fact Ouki's men were his personal army, independent from Qin's forces.
Tou however does actually get promoted to a general, taking over Ouki's army after his death. -
It's not a writer's mistake. Gaku Jou (楽乗) was no longer with Zhao by this time in history.
Shinryoukun (信陵君 Lord Xinling) was one of the four most prominent great lords of China, but unfortunately we likely won't see him in Kingdom as he's already passed away. After his death, Gi (Wei) had no prominent heroes to fend off Shin (Qin)'s invasion, and disappeared from existence. In other words, no.
Ouki's commanders do not have the same ranking system as Qin's main forces, and thus not called "generals".
This is likely to the fact Ouki's men were his personal army, independent from Qin's forces.
Tou however does actually get promoted to a general, taking over Ouki's army after his death.Ah, thanks. I imagine since after this current (translated) Wei invasion there will be another war against Wei where Qin manages to completely conquer the nation as part of the unification, that means either Wei manages to pull off a decent defense against Qin for a while without a powerful general, Renpa survives this war and continues to defend Wei (at a very old age), or Wei is completely crushed without much effort.
In fact, wouldn't this manga end up with Qin crushing all the other nations with increasing ease as it gathers more power through absorbing everyone else? Especially since Qi, a small "mid tier" (in Riboku/Li Mu's words) nation is the last one to be unified, making a rather one sided final conflict. Probably not worth worrying about so early in the series, but I don't see how that can be adapted into a tough conflict without completely changing things.
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**^well…
! In History, Renpa/Lian Po serves the state of Chu until his death after serving Wei. Wei does fall somewhat easily, as Wang Ben/Ouhon leads a 600,000 strong army and uses a flooding tactic to siege Wei's capital. Because of this, I assume Renpa/Lian Po is long gone from Wei.
As for the complete unification of China (and the conquering of Qi), you're right that it will be rather one-sided and probably not as exciting. I speculate that those arcs will be the "falling action" of the whole series, with the climax either in the next arc (Alliance army versus Qin), conquering of Chu (Li Xin/Shin's spectacular defeat and Wang Jian's victory), or the Zhao conquering arc (with the demise of Riboku/Li Mu and maybe Pang Nuan/Hou Ken). In regards to the last option, Zhao is conquered pretty early (the second state after Han) and in history, Riboku was executed by his own king as a result of Qin bribing officials to talk shit about him but it seems that the author is building up Riboku and Hou Ken as the final bosses.** -
I doubt it about the last boss.
! Since the author is building up OuHon and MouTen as Xin's peers and equals, it's obvious the climax battle is going to be the invasion of Qi, which is conveniently the last nation to fall in the unification. Otherwise why would the author make these two characters important peers to Xin? It just makes sense, since invasion of Qi is done by these three youngsters.
! By placing Qi as the climax, it makes perfect sense for "redemption" of Xin's earlier failure as well.
! The snake-eating king of Qi has been shown to be a formidable leader, unphased by turning the whole China against himself, and is strongly hinted to have some very capable generals. I don't know if you read the recent chapters, but both Riboku and HouKen's downfall has already started, and Qi's slowly getting built as a formidable future antagonist.
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oh really? I haven't gotten that far into the raws but going by what I've read about in history, the conquering of Qi didn't look too exciting compared to the conquering of the other states.
! I read that Wang Ben conquered Qi by avoiding the Qi army and attacking the capital by surprise. I've also read that Li Xin will participate in the campaign and no doubt the author will redeem his failure in Chu in this invasion.
As for the more recent chapters, what chapter does the Alliance Army attack Qi? And the downfall of Houken and Riboku? I've heard people say that in the recent chapters Shin has been promoted to 3000 man commander and I haven't seen much of anything else.
3DS Friend Code 1693-2056-2994
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oh really? I haven't gotten that far into the raws but going by what I've read about in history, the conquering of Qi didn't look too exciting compared to the conquering of the other states.
! I read that Wang Ben conquered Qi by avoiding the Qi army and attacking the capital by surprise. I've also read that Li Xin will participate in the campaign and no doubt the author will redeem his failure in Chu in this invasion.
As for the more recent chapters, what chapter does the Alliance Army attack Qi? And the downfall of Houken and Riboku? I've heard people say that in the recent chapters Shin has been promoted to 3000 man commander and I haven't seen much of anything else.! The fact it was boring in history doesn't mean anything, as the most recent arc has shown.
The battle of Sai (蕞) was only briefly mentioned in the history books, and wasn't really explained or expanded.
However in Kingdom it was the most important, brutal battle of the war - and spanned dozens of chapters, ending in a climatic turnaround.
It's a clear example of fictional liberty taken in depiction of the war, and should be expected to see more of the same.
! The alliance invasion of Qin just ended, and the failure angered the alliance which turned around and attacked Qi (the traitor) in the chapter last week.
They failed in conquest of Qi as well, and the king of Qi wasn't at all fazed.
! Riboku wasn't even allowed to die in combat, as he must now face the responsibility of stirring up this failed alliance.
Houken on the other hand, broke his arm in the duel with Hyokou, then later lost in a duel to Xin. (more of a tie, but the fact he was on the invading side and had to flee, Shin accomplished his goal and a clear defeat to Houken) With a broken arm and dignity, and foreshadowing that Xin will be his downfall next time, I would say his days are clearly numbered (from story telling perspective) -
Damn Aohige, you got me excited over the recent chapters!
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! The fact it was boring in history doesn't mean anything, as the most recent arc has shown.
The battle of Sai (蕞) was only briefly mentioned in the history books, and wasn't really explained or expanded.
However in Kingdom it was the most important, brutal battle of the war - and spanned dozens of chapters, ending in a climatic turnaround.
It's a clear example of fictional liberty taken in depiction of the war, and should be expected to see more of the same.
! The alliance invasion of Qin just ended, and the failure angered the alliance which turned around and attacked Qi (the traitor) in the chapter last week.
They failed in conquest of Qi as well, and the king of Qi wasn't at all fazed.
! Riboku wasn't even allowed to die in combat, as he must now face the responsibility of stirring up this failed alliance.
Houken on the other hand, broke his arm in the duel with Hyokou, then later lost in a duel to Xin. (more of a tie, but the fact he was on the invading side and had to flee, Shin accomplished his goal and a clear defeat to Houken) With a broken arm and dignity, and foreshadowing that Xin will be his downfall next time, I would say his days are clearly numbered (from story telling perspective)Thanks for telling me. I just like to use actual history to try to predict where the story will be going but I do like what the author is doing with the story.
! Does the author elaborate on how Xin got his family name "Li" ? Because that has been bugging me for the longest time.
3DS Friend Code 1693-2056-2994
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Thanks for telling me. I just like to use actual history to try to predict where the story will be going but I do like what the author is doing with the story.
! Does the author elaborate on how Xin got his family name "Li" ? Because that has been bugging me for the longest time.
It is assumed that he got the surname Li from being adopted into the village head's family.
It is known in history that Li Xin is a relative of Zhao's Li Mu
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The family name Li for Xin hasn't happened in the manga yet.
Only time it came up was the short flash-forward scene in the first chapter when Xin's a general. -
Is there a site that has all of the raws?
I can only find the raws (of chapters 293+) on sen-manga.Reading : Homunculus, Blade of the Immortal
Watching : Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze
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Is there a site that has all of the raws?
I can only find the raws (of chapters 293+) on sen-manga.Senmanga has them. When you go onto the Kingdom chapters there, click on the list of chapters scroll list thing and the latest one is beneath the scanlated volumes.
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Senmanga has them. When you go onto the Kingdom chapters there, click on the list of chapters scroll list thing and the latest one is beneath the scanlated volumes.
Sorrryyy, I should've been more specific.
I'm trying to find the raws for chapters immediately after the most recent scanlated ones (SO, raws for 207-on).Thats rad that they have volume 23 though, I didn't notice that before.
Reading : Homunculus, Blade of the Immortal
Watching : Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze
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Sorrryyy, I should've been more specific.
I'm trying to find the raws for chapters immediately after the most recent scanlated ones (SO, raws for 207-on).Thats rad that they have volume 23 though, I didn't notice that before.
Oh, sorry. I tried looking for those a few weeks back and couldn't find any, but someone else might know.
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A site called dm5.com should have all the raws, from volume 1 to the most recent chapters but the whole site is in Mandarin Chinese. Kingdom is listed as Kingdom of Heaven or [h=1]王者天下[/h]
3DS Friend Code 1693-2056-2994
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Yeeaaaaaaahhhh those aren't raws, those are Chinese translations
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Whoops, sorry about that. But its still the only place that I can find the non-english chapters that are missing from senmanga
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A site called dm5.com should have all the raws, from volume 1 to the most recent chapters but the whole site is in Mandarin Chinese. Kingdom is listed as Kingdom of Heaven or 王者天下
This is perfect, thanks.
Given the fact that I cant read Japanese or Chinese, these should do just fine. I was planning on just looking at all of the pictures and reading it when the scans come out.
Reading : Homunculus, Blade of the Immortal
Watching : Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze
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This is perfect, thanks.
Given the fact that I cant read Japanese or Chinese, these should do just fine. I was planning on just looking at all of the pictures and reading it when the scans come out.
No problem. That's what I do too when waiting for the translations.
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http://www.1kkk.com/manhua6746/###
Volume 20 is where the recent scans are at.
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Made it to the timeskip (chapter 180). Man, this was one hell of a ride. Really enjoyed it, although I didn't want Ouki to die. The only thing I don't like about this timeskip is that now midget Ten ain't midget anymore :(
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Necessary step toward HOT Ten.
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But I want goofy, owlish Ten :(
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356 spoilers
! Xin counts all 3,000 of his soldiers one by one. Kyoukai finally meets the current Shiyuu Ren.
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356 spoilers
! Xin counts all 3,000 of his soldiers one by one. Kyoukai finally meets her sister.
! Her sister? Isn't she dead and all?
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! Her sister? Isn't she dead and all?
! Yeah you're right. Her sister is dead. She meets Ren. The one who she's been looking for all this time.
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Oh snap.
! It's the current Shiyuu if I'm interpretting things correctly. We're finally at the confrontation.
!
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! Yeah you're right. Her sister is dead. She meets Ren. The one who she's been looking for all this time.
! Oh my.
The scans can't catch up soon enough. -
Ousen getting further hype, by Ouki of all people. Can't wait to see him in action! Just learned that historical Ousen was among the four greatest general of the Warring States era, with Riboku, Renpa and Haku Ki (one of the Six Great Generals)
Speaking of Ouki and the Six Great Generals… wasn't another Great General from the same family as Ouki and Ousen? I'm talking about Ō Kotsu (or by his original name, Wang He).http://cfile23.uf.tistory.com/image/124BEA154B2FA442404D9E
He's the one in the second panel.Necessary step toward HOT Ten.
Hey Aohige, do you know what became of O Kotsu?
! I know he appears in the manga later on, why only then?
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i tried my best to wait, but sadly patience isnt my forte…. onto look at raw pics it is. I really should just learn the language.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Necessary step toward HOT Ten.
hey man, i know you've read countless mangas and i was wondering if u dont mind me asking, where would you rank Kingdom on your list? like a top 3, 5, 10, 20, 50?
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i tried my best to wait, but sadly patience isnt my forte…. onto look at raw pics it is. I really should just learn the language.
I did it last week, I looked at all of the pictures up until the end of this current campaign… Reading the scans is almost as good, even though I know whats coming next.
hey man, i know you've read countless mangas and i was wondering if u dont mind me asking, where would you rank Kingdom on your list? like a top 3, 5, 10, 20, 50?
I'm also curious about this.
Reading : Homunculus, Blade of the Immortal
Watching : Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze
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I did it last week, I looked at all of the pictures up until the end of this current campaign… Reading the scans is almost as good, even though I know whats coming next.
Would you recommend reading the scans, or waiting it out?
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Hey Aohige, do you know what became of O Kotsu?
! I know he appears in the manga later on, why only then?
Ou Kotsu is one of the six generals. His time is in the past.
His name comes up in Kingdom when the general who defeated him in the past boasts about it.hey man, i know you've read countless mangas and i was wondering if u dont mind me asking, where would you rank Kingdom on your list? like a top 3, 5, 10, 20, 50?
Do you mean as in out of all the manga I've ever read, or currently serializing?
It's impossible for me to give you the answer if it's the former, as number of manga I've read reaches in 4 digits. It would involve a lot more time and thought into it than I would really care to.
When the base subject count is in the thousand, the tops become more or less selection of titles that left the most impression on you, or had the most profound effect in your life - titles like Tezuka's Fire Bird, Doraemon, One Piece, Maison Ikkoku and whatnot, instead of what is objective significance or quality.As for the "currently serialized" manga, I would say it's among my top 10 "weekly" manga, yes.
Compared to other historic epics though, it's not so clear-cut - there are so many good contenders. Shut Hell, Historie, Vinland Saga are all very good ongoing titles. Kingdom has a unique advantage of being a weekly series, and having constant and large supply of content. -
Im amazed at how the auhor was able to dish out chapters so full of art considering it's a weekly magazine , I mean drawing armies duking out with each other should be a hell of a work to draw.
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As for the "currently serialized" manga, I would say it's among my top 10 "weekly" manga, yes.
Compared to other historic epics though, it's not so clear-cut - there are so many good contenders. Shut Hell, Historie, Vinland Saga are all very good ongoing titles. Kingdom has a unique advantage of being a weekly series, and having constant and large supply of content.Among the historic epics you have read, do you mind telling me if there are any other good East Asian (preferably Chinese and Japanese) historic epic mangas out there?
3DS Friend Code 1693-2056-2994
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I'm catching up and I must say:
No, Kakubi, noooooooooooooooooooo.
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Among the historic epics you have read, do you mind telling me if there are any other good East Asian (preferably Chinese and Japanese) historic epic mangas out there?
vagebond is kinda good
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Among the historic epics you have read, do you mind telling me if there are any other good East Asian (preferably Chinese and Japanese) historic epic mangas out there?
The title I mentioned, Shut Hell, takes place in 13th century Northern China involving Mongols and Tunguts.
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^Thanks
@bepo:vagebond is kinda good
Yes, it is but the English translations take forever to update, do you know why?
3DS Friend Code 1693-2056-2994
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^Thanks
Yes, it is but the English translations take forever to update, do you know why?
Isn't is just because chapters are released over once a month? The next chapter is out mid September (the 18th I think) and'll then take a few days from what I've seen to be translated and cleaned.
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Wow, didn't realize this was a weekly manga. That's pretty impressive art skill.
