I still more weary about Goyer then I am of Snyder, surprisingly. The trailer showcased some of his writing, and no doubt Goyer is drawing from the most notable Superman stories like All Star, and Birthright and reconfiguring them into something original which what he does best, but I don't know some of the writing just displayed in that trailer has raised some alarms wee bit( particularly Zod's "I will find him!" ). Snyder being involved at least ensures that film will be visual eye candy and the action will be well shot. Snyder isn't really doing any writing on this, this isn't his story and dialouge– it's Goyer's(along with some extra writers as well possibly). I really can't see why people hamper all this negativity over Snyder's involvement with the film instead of Goyer.
DC Movies Thread - Shazam saves the day
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@Thousand:
Yeah, they flat out stated that Superman is too idealistic and wouldn't sell with today's audiences. Forgive me if I'm not overly optimistic at this point.
- Writer flat out says the movie isn't as Dark as TDK and is about "Hope"
- Actor playing the character and therefore delivering the lines says the movie is not dark or edgy "By any means".
- Newest Trailer talks big about "Hope" and shows Jor El flat out saying he will serve as an ideal for other people to follow and that they will join him "In the sun".
Yeah, this movie is just gonna be TDK with a slightly different paintjob… >_> /sarcasm
I think your problem is that you are going off of some Golden Age ideal for this character, as if the world around Superman has never and can never be dark or grim. Everything I've seen so far about this is implying that things ARE going to get dark, but Superman himself in the trailer appears to maintain an air of goodness.
The trailer and some of the stuff we've learned leads me to believe this is going to be HEAVILY based on Superman: Birthright and The Man of Steel miniseries by John Byrne that reintroduced Superman after Crisis on Infinite Earths. This makes me happy, as that was some of the best writing for the character IMO
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@RobbyBevard:
Luthor
BraniacWait, that massively huge ship/ creature looking thing from the previews isn't Braniac's?
Huh…Zod and co (only because of the movies)
Bizarro
Darkseid (only sorta a Supes villain)How 'sorta' so? Only times I really saw him mostly not 'specifically' towards Superman was 52 + what that eventually led to, when he screwed over almost every/ body/ super powered/ villains/ criminals/ and heroes .
And Superman Batman seemed to focus him even more on the 'super family', kind of like the tv series did as well.And I'd say only yeah, maybe 5 of those have any presence on the public conscious. The copies of him probably don't count, though Bizarro is pretty unique. Maxima, Parasite and Mongul are probably too B-list to know. The animated series created Livewire, and she was decent, but hasn't really transcended the medium, unlike Harley Quinn.
Then there's a ton of C-listers who are mostly best forgotten.
Would actually think between animated movies, television show(s) episodes, and recent comics exposure(last 5 – 15 years), Maxima, Parasite, and Mongul should be as decently 'known of' as most of the other A- listers. Though, yeah, don't see them as being particularly 'working' in either the "1st" or "2nd" movies of a reboot
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@LUFFYSMC:
How 'sorta' so? Only times I really saw him mostly not 'specifically' towards Superman was 52 + what that eventually led to, when he screwed over almost every/ body/ super powered/ villains/ criminals/ and heroes .
And Superman Batman seemed to focus him even more on the 'super family', kind of like the tv series did as well.The New Gods (and the rest of Kirby's Fourth World) are largely their own thing. They've just sort of been adopted as Superman problems because they're at his power scale and he has so few good villains of his own.
I think Darkseid first appeared in a Jimmy Olsen comic, but… Superman really wasn't his main opponent for huge chunks of time.
Would actually think between animated movies, television show(s) episodes, and recent comics exposure(last 5 – 15 years), Maxima, Parasite, and Mongul should be as decently 'known of' as most of the other A- listers.
Even people who watched the cartoon would be hard pressed to name Maxima and Mongul, they were only in one or two episodes, and they've been sporadic in the comics over decades, they don't show up regularly. They're NOT well known figures,
There's also Draaga I suppose, but he was only in a couple of stories.
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Your narrowly constricting yourself to one predomiant view of the character. If anything, what they've been saying is that they want to place the character in a world not too disimilar to ours and explore a territory of the story that hasn't really been touched before which is how would people react to flying guy in a blue costume and red cape with that much power. Superman is pretty much a relic in this day and age and so if you're going to reintroduce him to a modern era than why not place in a world similar to our cynical post 9/11 world comtemporary world and test the hopeful idealism the character respresents within that realm? If people are so scared, or so weary of an alien flying amidst wouldn't that kinda how it is in our world anyway? Honestly, the film isn't really going to be wholly realistic, anyway, more like grounded which means none of the far-out comic book aspects like Superboy, time-travel, or the character overpowered power sre
I know what they've been "saying". It's whether they can execute the film in the manner they're claiming they will that I'm doubtful of.
Read more at http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=75772#O5xw6pxpybI1v7pL.99
. The very fact the trailer showed a reporter being allowed by an advanced military unit to interview a levitating super-human should speak volumes about just how realistic it will be or dark for that matter. I mean other than the color palette, and that so-so second trailer released last year what do you have that suggest this film will be a cynical, grim trainwreck that is a disgrace to the Superman character? What I have seen and read from the reviews and trailers respectively have showcased it's only a more realistic, more relatable character that will peel off some of the pretenses of the source material.
You mean other than the horribly depressing first poster, the bleak grey depressing colour palette and the first trailer where Pa Kent says something needlessly cruel like telling Clark he should have let the children die (instead of something reasonable like tell him he did the right thing and no one's going to believe a bunch of scared kids anyway?). Nolan's writing it. Also this.
It just struck me that there was an idealist quality to them that may or may not work with today’s audience.
Avengers made 2 billion dollars. I think audiences are just fine with idealism. You don't need to force realism on a character that wasn't meant to be taken as such. Maybe I wouldn't mind it as much if it were a genuine desire to write the character from a different perspective but the movie just reeks of just trying to coast of DK's success and the quote above doesn't help matters.
- Writer flat out says the movie isn't as Dark as TDK and is about "Hope"
- Actor playing the character and therefore delivering the lines says the movie is not dark or edgy "By any means".
Talk is cheap. It's execution that matters.
- Newest Trailer talks big about "Hope" and shows Jor El flat out saying he will serve as an ideal for other people to follow and that they will join him "In the sun".
You mean the trailer after the horribly depressing first one where the makers had enough time to gauge the negative reactions of the audience and try to make a more positive one to assuage them?
Yeah, this movie is just gonna be TDK with a slightly different paintjob… >_> /sarcasm
Nolan's writing it. I am not confident that this isn't going to be the case.
I think your problem is that you are going off of some Golden Age ideal for this character, as if the world around Superman has never and can never be dark or grim. Everything I've seen so far about this is implying that things ARE going to get dark, but Superman himself in the trailer appears to maintain an air of goodness.
The trailer and some of the stuff we've learned leads me to believe this is going to be HEAVILY based on Superman: Birthright and The Man of Steel miniseries by John Byrne that reintroduced Superman after Crisis on Infinite Earths. This makes me happy, as that was some of the best writing for the character IMO
My problem is that I just very much doubt that they're doing it out of desire to show the character from a new perspective. Just because it's what they think will sell with the demographics. That just rubs me the wrong way. Especially from my experience, those sort of movies end up being so pretentious because film producers try to make these dark, serious films in a world that just wasn't made for such things and try to have it both ways by still injecting comic book physics or some very dumb writing for the sake of the rule of cool. And the "emotional" scenes themselves just end up being melodramatic cliches.
If the movie ends up being legitimately interesting and complex and the inspirational triumph of the character comes off well and it's not a DK rip off, I will gladly bow my head in shame and eat every word I said. I'm not going to be biased when I see it in the theater. If a movie is good, it's good. That's reality. If it's just a DK clone, that will show especially with such a starkly different character like Superman.
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Well TLC, I'm not going to argue with u cause ure obviously one of the lucky bastards that got to view the screening. Just try not to give us spoilers please :ninja:
As for Goyer & Snyder:
I'm not going to judge his Man of Steel script before I see the actual movie, it's unfair to assume what the movie is gonna be like just by judging his former movie. Goyer (& Nolan) is a good scriptwriter, that much I can see from The Dark Knight series. And that's all there is to it, he's a good scriptwriter and I'm hoping he's not just a one-trick-pony.Snyder… I felt he has a knack for visuals. But his scriptwriting and storytelling is horrible (Sucker Punch, for example,would actually be awesome if it had been a cut-scene from some game). But I really enjoyed his Watchmen and 300.
So I'm really looking forward to seeing how those 2 collaborate, and hope it'll do well.
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Snyder managed to somehow botch the tone of Watchmen in spite of it being storyboarded for him shot for shot.
So, there is that against him.
(Yes, Watchmen matched the visuals closer than we had any right to expect. But it missed the point of the whole thing. And no, I'm not talking about the squid.)
Also, 300 was awful, but that's on Frank Miller.
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@RobbyBevard:
Snyder managed to somehow botch the tone of Watchmen in spite of it being storyboarded for him shot for shot.
So, there is that against him.
(Yes, Watchmen matched the visuals closer than we had any right to expect. But it missed the point of the whole thing. And no, I'm not talking about the squid.)
Also, 300 was awful, but that's on Frank Miller.
How did Watchmen miss the point of the whole thing?
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Adrien's plan involved using an outside "threat" to make the Soviets and the US stop fighting.
Dr. Manhattan is an American superhero. Do the math.
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@Nex:
How did Watchmen miss the point of the whole thing?
Made everyone superhuman with powers rather than ordinary people trying to fight crime.
One example (without pulling out a bunch of them and being here all day.) At the start of the film, Rorschach shoots a grappling line up to the top of a building. In the comic, he then uses that and climbs the side of the building slowly and meticulously, as a man would in the real world. In the movie, he grappling hooks and then it ziplines him straight up in a second. It's a subtle thing, but the whole movie is loaded with such subtle things that throw it all off and make the characters unexplained super-humans rather than humans.
Everyone I know who saw the movie but hasn't read the book asked "How did they get their super powers?" when… that shouldn't be a question.
Lots of little things, but the ordinary people putting on costumes instead having superhuman agility, stamina, concrete smashing slo-mo gravity defying take on mobs of 50 guys without being scratched thing is the main issue when it comes to tone and the whole point and deconstruction of the thing.
Basically, he got the superhero visual on screen, but missed the human element.
Also, the music choices were all awful, there were things Synder did that were excessive, and changing the plot of the ending (not the squid, but the general idea) makes it so the whole thing doesn't work.
The times are a-changing opening sequence was pretty cool though.
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I went into Watchmen with extremely minimal knowledge of the story, and even I went "Hang on, Whut" when the comedian punched through solid concrete.
And laughed out loud at "Hallelujah! cue stream of fiery ejaculation HALLELUJAH!"
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@The:
And laughed out loud at "Hallelujah! cue stream of fiery ejaculation HALLELUJAH!"
That was in the book!
But… it was far more subtle about it.
And didn't have the song number behind it.
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Watchmen was a good movie on its own merit. Entertaining, had some neat twists and subversions of tropes, enjoyable characters, great acting (except Ms. Jupiter who was just horrible).
Compared to the original comic though? It's not even an issue of which is better. It's an issue of the deficiencies of the movie being exposed when compared to the comic, of it not meeting the standards of the original, this feeling that it just isn't what it should be. I just like to treat the film as its own thing.
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@RobbyBevard:
Snyder managed to somehow botch the tone of Watchmen in spite of it being storyboarded for him shot for shot.
So, there is that against him.
(Yes, Watchmen matched the visuals closer than we had any right to expect. But it missed the point of the whole thing. And no, I'm not talking about the squid.)
Also, 300 was awful, but that's on Frank Miller.
Well. My point was that Snyder was bad at storytelling, but good on visuals (this is where Goyer & Nolan comes in). So teamed with the right partner, he might just pull-off a great movie.
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@Nex:
How did Watchmen miss the point of the whole thing?
Here's a sample of what I said in the overrated movies years ago, I think.
. Another thing as the fan of the comic Zack fucked up royally with the ending at the same time.
"It has been announced World Peace has been achieved".
What the fuck? If one reads reads the original comic Adreins Veidt's plan, just before it blows half of New York you see a powerful, and deliciously ironic scene. In the film it has that line, that isn't realistic. It misses the point of the original ending. The New Yorkers are struggling, and they clearly helping each other at the same time. Adrien wants to achieve peace and create a utopia and he actually thinks averting a world disaster is the first step into doing that? That was what Moore's message was doing with that scene. Human conflict bypassed the supposedly "smartest man in the world" who could even go toe-to toe with gods. In fact it was the complexity of it that drove even a god who could do literally everything confused. Human error was too strong to stabilized by shielding the truth.
Zack fucked up on that final irony, just by cutting that scene. It needed to be there. Is Watchmen a good movie? Its an average one. Was it okay adaption of Watchmen? Sure, but it wasn't a spectacular one–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Thousand:
Watchmen was a good movie on its own merit. Entertaining, had some neat twists and subversions of tropes, enjoyable characters, great acting (except Ms. Jupiter who was just horrible). .
Ugh, I have to vehemently disagree. I thought it was a sloppy mess on its own. Save for some good parts. Too each his own, I suppose.
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I first saw the film and I enjoyed it. But then I read the comic which really put things into perspective. Still like the film when I treat it like its own thing. But the fact is that it does have a legacy that it fails to live up to.
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@Thousand:
Watchmen was a good movie on its own merit. Entertaining, had some neat twists and subversions of tropes, enjoyable characters, great acting (except Ms. Jupiter who was just horrible).
Compared to the original comic though? It's not even an issue of which is better. It's an issue of the deficiencies of the movie being exposed when compared to the comic, of it not meeting the standards of the original, this feeling that it just isn't what it should be. I just like to treat the film as its own thing.
It's a terrible movie as well. Robby listed a whole bunch of problems once in a different Snyder-related thread (probably Sucker Punch).
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Found it:
The female actresses were all bad.
The Nixon makeup was terrible.
The fight scenes exagerated beyond the suspension of disbelief and the slow-mo was annoyingly overused.
The gore in such scenes as the buzz saw cutting off a mans arm, the muggers, or the dogs was completely uncalled for.
The movie never explained how any of these superheroes got their super powers.
The music choices all felt incredibly innapropriate and mood breaking. Hallelujah was especially out of place, and the Appocolypse Now homage was trite. And 99 Red Balloons? Really?
I felt no sympathy to the loss of life when New York was blown up.
There seemed to be a lot of subplots and minor characters that went nowhere.
The out of sequence storytelling didn't benefit the film and just slowed down the narrative.
They tried way too hard to hammer in who the lead girl's father was.
The film was entirely too long, it could have been trimmed by at least half an hour and probably been fine.
What the hell was with that giant cgi cat near the end, there was no context or setup for that.
We really didn't need to see Dr. Manhattan's shlong repeatedly. -
I thought the movie was fine regardless of Snyder's inadequacies but when it's using a story by Alan Moore, even the hacked up version could give some good entertainment. And sometimes the odd choices in the direction were unintentionally hilarious.
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Damn….
I just had a dream last night that I saw this movie and the ending teased an out of costume Flash realizing there were others like him. Too bad.
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New footage in that TV spot! Supes looks amazing at the end, about to punch whoever he's about to punch!!
@Sniper:
I'd just love it if they had a Bizarro in a Superman movie…Like in All-Star Superman Vol. 2. Bizarro is the only thing that makes me like Superman.
I can't believe I said that…
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Can it be June 14th?
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That trailer makes it look like the movie costs more than the last Superman and Avengers combined
Seriously it looks so freaking action packed. I am most anticipating this movie out of every summer movie.
Damn still haven't seen Iron Man 3 or Star Trek yet, too damn busy. But I'm going to go to this for sure first night, maybe not midnight showing, but for sure opening weekend.
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Seriously though, step aside Avengers and The Dark Knight Trilogy…Man of Steel has arrived! Incredible. Without a doubt will be the best movie this year!!!
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Well hot damn, Sam.
The only thing I worry about is everybody saying "Dark Knight." Supes is NOT Batman, I'm really hoping this doesn't go too emo.
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Well it really looks like it's going to be a fun movie. I still have some doubts about it, but i'm gonna see it on the first weekend.
I already convinced my girlfriend to go and watch Man of Steel with me, although she thinks Superman is boring. Maybe this movie will change her opinion. I certainly hope so. -
Well hot damn, Sam.
The only thing I worry about is everybody saying "Dark Knight." Supes is NOT Batman, I'm really hoping this doesn't go too emo.
It'll be the exact opposite. Supes will carry the Messiah complex. In fact, with all the shit that's happened since July 2012, a Messiah type hero is just the type of entertainment people would rush to the theaters to see. Man of Steel will play a big part this Summer and you'll see a lot of people wearing his symbol throughout 2013.
un héroe ha llegado~
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It'll be the exact opposite. Supes will carry the Messiah complex. In fact, with all the shit that's happened since July 2012, a Messiah type hero is just the type of entertainment people would rush to the theaters to see. Man of Steel will play a big part this Summer and you'll see a lot of people wearing his symbol throughout 2013.
un héroe ha llegado~
That sounds amazing. :O
I want Superman to be the icon he was before, like Batman is now. -
How could anyone not be hopeful when they hear the new Theme Song!!!
Makes me want to….makes me want to.... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
I'M GOING TO SAVE EVERYONE!!!!!os salvaré!
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How could anyone not be hopeful when they hear the new Theme Song!!!
Makes me want to….makes me want to.... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
I'M GOING TO SAVE EVERYONE!!!!!os salvaré!
This is why i like Zimmer.
Since you want to save the world as such, try Two Steps From Hell.
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This is why i like Zimmer.
Since you want to save the world as such, try Two Steps From Hell.
Two Steps from Hell makes me want to fight for my life. It doesn't make me want to save anyone. Only makes me want to survive.
supervivencia~
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Really? I bet most felt the other way round, including me.
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How could anyone not be hopeful when they hear the new Theme Song!!!
Makes me want to….makes me want to.... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
I'M GOING TO SAVE EVERYONE!!!!!os salvaré!
lol. This was discussed earlier in the thread. Nice theme, but still doesn't live up to John Williams.
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Is that even the superman theme for the movie or is that just the music they used in the trailers? It doesn't match anything on the sound track so maybe the film's theme is still unheard. Obviously Williams is a classic but Zimmer is great too. I'm sure the entire soundtrack will be fine. The Superman March is just a huge shadow for any composer to try and follow up. It was brave not to use it.
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I really enjoyed 'Captain America March' myself though I agree John Williams' theme for Superman if the one on the Youtube version is Superman's theme for this movie is superior. Not to say I think it's bad though.
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Is that even the superman theme for the movie or is that just the music they used in the trailers? It doesn't match anything on the sound track so maybe the film's theme is still unheard. Obviously Williams is a classic but Zimmer is great too. I'm sure the entire soundtrack will be fine. The Superman March is just a huge shadow for any composer to try and follow up. It was brave not to use it.
Yeah, I don't envy any composer who has to follow John Williams. He's like our generation's Mozart or Tchaikovsky.
I really enjoyed 'Captain America March' myself though I agree John Williams' theme for Superman if the one on the Youtube version is Superman's theme for this movie is superior. Not to say I think it's bad though.
looks it up Hey, not bad. Although it makes sense since Superman and Captain America are like DC and Marvel's parallels of each other.
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Captain America have similarites, but I think he's more of a batman type character.
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Batman? Um, no. Captain American may not be a superpowered alien, but he's still a figure of courage and hope whom people look up to, the Ideal Hero, not the brooding vigilante who operates in the dark.
I'm not bashing Batman at all, mind you, just saying that they're very different character types.
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Yes!
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This movie is so f-ing quality! It's going to rival The Dark Knight…maybe even surpass it! So pumped
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Speaking of Dark Knight Man of Steel already making more crazy money then Dark Knight before being even released.
This film will be a heavyweight champion at the box office. It might even beat Iron Man 3(extra emphasis on "might") and it's assured of trumping Star Trek and Fast and Furious 6. I'm predicting it will make a billion dollars and no doubt will it be more successful then Batman Begins was.
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Yes!
Awesomesauce.
I still can't wrap my head around Amy Adams as Lois though. She's just . . . not . . . LOIS.
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Speaking of Dark Knight Man of Steel already making more crazy money then Dark Knight before being even released.
That's merchandise tie in sales, not Box Office. They are completely different.
Every movie like this makes billions in merchandise sales, (Like Cars for instance has made something like 10 billion) merchandise always makes quadruple what a movie makes at the box office so this is nothing new.
And actually, that is from promotional partners who have nothing to do with figures and related items. This is $170 million from advertisements. Of course a bright and cheerful american icon like Supes is easier to get promoters behind than Batman was. He's even endorsing a triple bacon burger, after all.
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Awesomesauce.
I still can't wrap my head around Amy Adams as Lois though. She's just . . . not . . . LOIS.
Everybody who has seen it has been saying that she was perfect….so maybe she is not YOUR Lois. Two different things ;)
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Oh, she's a wonderful actress. But she's never fit my image of Lois. But maybe she'll completely prove me wrong.
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Interesting to hear how much advertising for the movie–even radio--is relying on the new theme. Looks like they know they've got a winner there.
It's rare in the modern age of soundtracks to find many movie tunes that are immediately recognizable.
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@RobbyBevard:
That's merchandise tie in sales, not Box Office. They are completely different.
Every movie like this makes billions in merchandise sales, (Like Cars for instance has made something like 10 billion) merchandise always makes quadruple what a movie makes at the box office so this is nothing new.
And actually, that is from promotional partners who have nothing to do with figures and related items. This is $170 million from advertisements. Of course a bright and cheerful american icon like Supes is easier to get promoters behind than Batman was. He's even endorsing a triple bacon burger, after all.
True, true. However, this film is gonna win the box office crown anyways. The ticket sales are already through the roof. Iron Man 3 may be in danger of losing It's box office crown(extra emphasis on "May" because there might be some general bias about Supes that might ail it's box office intake, not to mention the serious tone which is less appeasing then the charming comic tone of Iron Man 3.) I predict that at the very least this film will make over a billion dollars(which will make it the first Superman film to do so) and then it will the second highest grossest film of of 2013 after Iron Man 3. It will beat Trek, and all the rest of the summer films(that's a given).
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Hopefully WB now proceeds to make a sequel, a Wonder Woman, a Flash and a reboot Green Lantern movie all in the same tone that they've established with Man of Steel and The Dark Knight trilogy. Its working for them so they should stick with it.