All right, let's do it!
@Demonicpoodle:
We actually pretty much fully agree, my good sir. People were annoyed at Crocobus? Whaddafeck. But yeah my main problems with the arc were indeed the fights, Zoro VS Monet being the main offense. I thought it was flawed but I really enjoyed the setting and style of it, especially Luffy and Robin's snow outfits when they were used. Though as a lot of people said, the fiery-half of the climate should definitely have been explored more.
Agree on the fiery climate part. That looked definitely like the most dangerous zone of Punk Hazard, although it makes perfect sense to set a laboratory where you'll be staying for years on the “easier” part. Even more if you’re made of highly flammable gas. So I'll just call it "logical" and be done with it.
Yeah, exactly, there's been a vocal minority here saying it's the same quality of Fishman Island but there are quite a few things that make it quite a cut above. I just feel with Oda's control over our heartstrings, he'd have used an opportunity to show the aftermath of the kids instead of them just sailing off.
It was far above Fishman Island. Just in pure enjoyment and “fun”, it was what you could call an adventure. Something Fishman Island never was. It was quite boring, which is something I can’t accept One Piece being. Anything BUT boring.
The plot thread with the kids had a non satisfactory conclusion, which is weird considering the massive build up Oda gave it. He spent entire chapters focused on the kids. That, coupled with the Giantification experiments being given a lot of focus and the implied ties with Oars makes me think that we’ll see this kids in a mid-far future. With Vegapunk? Who knows.
@Takto:
I don't understand why "Zoro won't cut women" is such a big deal. That's nothing at all. I don't want to start the stupid sexism nonesense, so i cut it here. It wasn't all about "Zoro won't cut women". It was more about, like Zoro vs Hyozou, he won't cut weaklings. That (the sexism excuse) is just a shitty excuse from you guys who want to justify their disliking for PH with "sudden sexism". He has not much of a problem to cut women when he has to, as he said, but you guys just overlooked that sentence, right? RIGHT.
He just show the weaklings, that they have NO CHANCE AT ALL(=Zoro cuts her in half with ease) and gives them the chance to give up and run away(it's also this way in Zoro vs Hyozou, but ey, Hyozou is a girl, that's why he doesn't cut Hyozou, right?).
"Zoro fooled around after he warned his captain" is also just a desperate try to downplay PH. The warning was only for Luffy because he is the carefree one who gets in trouble because of that. Zoro had EVERYTHING in control in the Biscuits Room.
Seriously, we can talk about flaws and i give you that, but when the flaws aren't flaws at all or your head draws the wrong picture, then i can't hold myself back. I just hate this :D
Should be clear that what i wrote are my interpretations of the mentioned scenes and i thought that you guys didn't understood what Oda wanted to say :D. So don't take it personal.
Your interpretation are "wrong" for me, so that's why i posted^^.
I see this part is really up to debate, and I WON'T go into the sexism debate. But, really, I'm actually saying that I DID LIKE Punk Hazard, how am I justifying my disliking of it, or trying to downplay it? It just so happens that, for me, chaper 687 is my least favorite chapter in the entire arc.
I find more offensive that chapters that gave a much needed emotional background to the kids or Brownbeard, or went to great lengths to build Caesar up as a complete bastard, received quite a lot of backlash cause "it drags like hell! we know all that already,tell us something we don't know! we don't care about the damn kids! progress the plot already!". That one of the most contrived character moments in One Piece, "I'll do it but I don't want to do it but if you force me I'll definitely do it but I'm not really in the mood to do it but hey guess I've got to do it but. . ." raised many, many eyebrows is not blindly hating One Piece. It felt quite stupid to me and I'm usually the one defending almost every single One Piece chapter.
@Thousand:
I agree that FI is one of the weakest arcs in the series exactly for the same reasons you mentioned but I still love it. It had the Straw Hats fight a war single-handedly and win easily! Plus the message on racism was some of the most well-written stuff I've read on the topic I've ever seen in a shonen. I see where people come from when they say they don't like it though. .
I see where you’re coming from, but it didn’t feel that exciting to me, to be honest. I’m actually surprised when I go back to the chapter thread discussions and see how deadset I was in defending the arc, but I guess I took it to defend One Piece even in its darkest hours, or something.
The fights got some decent panel time but it felt wasted, and the “3 panels of build up – break- 3 panels of build up – break – 2 page spread finisher” formula felt. . .well, formulaic. Curiously, I felt Robin taking out Hammond was much more satisfying than the rest, cause it didn’t feel as “by the book” as the other
fights, and, sincerely, in the end they all seemed to have the same level of threat to the SH’s: none at all.
I agree on the racism stuff though, mainly because I’ve seen young people (about 11-12 years) in my home city that are like that: blindy hating others, full of retarded fascist and racist ideas, extremely patriotic. . . All because of some ideas they got poisoned with, not because of personal experiences or out of their own will. Just like Hody, basically. So, yeah, I thought he was well written in that aspect. Problem? He was SO unmemorable it hurts. And when he turned into a mass of muscles that only knew how to laugh like a maniac and repeat the same old monologue time and time again it got quite boring.
Punk Hazard I just don't understand though. I thought it was a roller coaster of excitement. Yeah, it had its cracks here and there but it was still one of the most entertaining arcs Oda's written imo. People complain about how frenetic the pacing is but it's why I like it. It gives this feeling of chaos and wackiness that I really enjoy. I even enjoyed all those three fights you mentioned because besides having some of the best choreography we've seen in years, their sudden endings all had a point to them and gave some awesome payoff for things long set up in the story. Zoro and Tashigi's misunderstanding all the way back in Logue Town as well as a way to build up the monsters the SH crew have become, Caesar's power up being pointless was to show how he was never a threat to Luffy and that it amounted to nothing more than a cockroach wriggling its legs against someone with true power and conviction, Law one-shotting Vergo as a message to the old regime that their time is done and if you don't take the new generation seriously, you'll be finished off before you know it. All great stuff imo.
I'll accept Caesar transformation being a last pointless resort, but I'm still having a hard time accepting Vergo's defeat. He was the boss with the most legitimate level of threat, being able to break Sanji's fibula and going toe to toe with Smoker. Also, his "power up" wasn't out of need, he just wanted to go full overkill mode against Law. The thing is, prior to that power up he was build up as a frightening foe, and then he coats all his body with haki and hulks like crazy. . .only to be one shoted with an unnamed sword slash. Not even the super secret underhanded final attack he used on Smoker (a Smoker who, by the way, was able to deflect each and every sword attack that Law threw his way with his haki, supposedly inferior to Vergo's, and forced the Shichibukai to use his trump card), just a sword slash, and cut in half. It had a point, yes. It proved that point, yes. IT annoyed the hell out of me, hell yes.
@Cyclone_Baroness:
I think that Punk Hazard was handled well. I think the Strawhats were only supposed to have a minor flub here and there. That we haven't quite gotten to the meat of the New World yet. Which I think is fine, PH felt pretty short anyways. Yeah there was a lot of running, but I don't think it carries over as much if you read it in a chunk instead of weekly.
Zoro vs. Monet I didn't have a problem with. He cut "her", but then unleashed psychological terror on her. Which I think is much more interesting than simply cutting flesh.
I do agree though that I hope this arc hads real threats for the Strawhats cause Zoro really does seem to be breezing through confrontations easily. Although if the last few arcs were to kinda mirror the begining of the story then I can see why Oda is writing it that.
I'll accept Zoro mind breaking Monet as a fairly badass moment, it's just that. . .he's usually not that "gentle". But let's stop there.
As for this arc providing real threats for the SH's, I wouldn't doubt it one bit. Franky already showed his concern that Luffy might face quite a lot of adversity during the Tournament. I also have a feeling that we are all underestimating Dofla's crew, all because Franky using a robot created with an alloy that not even Whitebeard could destroy fended off 2 of Dofla's underlings, and their performance wasn't THAT poor. They did get up after receiving a Gaon Cannon at point blank range and were ready to keep on fighting. These guys are a bunch of weirdos, true, but they all look pretty menacing. Again, Monet and Vergo were his underlings too, and they were a real danger except, maybe, for the monster trio (and Vergo WAS a danger for Sanji, so. . .).
I expect Diamante, Pica and Trébol to be truly powerful, and Dofla himself we know is a real monster. And if everything else fails, we still have good ol' Jesus and a certain admiral there to spice things up. So, I wouldn't worry too much about that.
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So far, I think the progression post timeskip is clearly ascendent: FI I barely give it a pass cause the final chapters were great, the scenery was beautiful, the undersea adventures pre-FI were realy cool. PH stepped the game in almost every aspect (except, maybe, the scenery, which became a bit stale after a while, although the Laboratory was realy well drawn), but it still wasn't perfect.
Now, with just a few chapters into Dressrosa, I feel like Oda is already surpassing PH; the island already has a life of its own, the scenery and architecture is super pretty, the tournament is breathing at its own pace, fleshing out unknown characters that also serve the purpose of expanding the OP world (Ka no kuni, Prodense, etc. . .) and bringing back someone like Bellamy completely changed. We have new lore to discover (living toys, fairies ans the Kyros statue), conspiracies to uncover (why is the country so calm?), the CP-0 guys patroling the area, a new admiral preparing an assault, giant fighting fish protecting an island no one has even stepped on in 200 years, and everyone disguised with hilariously fake moustaches and beards.
Yeah, this arc seems like it'll be one of the great ones.
