@Formation:
Lol this is golden.
Shanks is going to get killed stop living in fantasy land. I bet my account on this.
By the time we get there you would probably have forget that bet.
@Formation:
Lol this is golden.
Shanks is going to get killed stop living in fantasy land. I bet my account on this.
By the time we get there you would probably have forget that bet.
I would not bet my account on it, but it is probably more likely than him surviving.
By the time we get there you would probably have forget that bet.
I'm not looking back on what I said. It's obvious he's going to get killed. It's more obvious than Coby becoming an Admiral level fighter.
Do you really think that one of the most important subplots in the story will just be dropped because of a minor character who might be relevant in the next story arc?
After being built up for nearly 700 chapters?
Ryuma is considered legendary in Wano and was the WSS of his time. How is he irrelevant? Hope you are joking about this. Zoro has no chance against the Elites there until he gets WSS title. He has to prove he can live up to Ryumas reputation.
@Formation:
I'm not looking back on what I said. It's obvious he's going to get killed. It's more obvious than Coby becoming an Admiral level fighter.
It isn't. You can found people disagreeing with Shanks turning cold but I doubt you'll find any in denying Coby gaining such level at the end of the series.
Ryuma is considered legendary in Wano and was the WSS of his time. How is he irrelevant? Hope you are joking about this. Zoro has no chance against the Elites there until he gets WSS title. He has to prove he can live up to Ryumas reputation.
Luffy beat the top fighters of a fighting island. Zoro surely can take on the top fighters of a Samurai country. You think Zoro can't take on Kinemon?
@Formation:
Ryuma is considered legendary in Wano and was the WSS of his time. How is he irrelevant? Hope you are joking about this. Zoro has no chance against the Elites there until he gets WSS title. He has to prove he can live up to Ryumas reputation.
He already beheaded a dragon, which was Ryūma's most notable feat.
He already beheaded a dragon, which was Ryūma's most notable feat.
He had the reputation of being King which is the WSS.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
It isn't. You can found people disagreeing with Shanks turning cold but I doubt you'll find any in denying Coby gaining such level at the end of the series.
Luffy beat the top fighters of a fighting island. Zoro surely can take on the top fighters of a Samurai country. You think Zoro can't take on Kinemon?
Kinemon has more experience than Zoro he has no chance against Kinemon. Kinemon was handicapped because of Momonosuke. Though Kinemon wasn't included in the picture of the 4 Samurai that Brook mentioned about Wano to Zoro.
@Formation:
Kinemon has more experience than Zoro he has no chance against Kinemon. Kinemon was handicapped because of Momonosuke. Though Kinemon wasn't included in the picture of the 4 Samurai that Brook mentioned about Wano to Zoro.
I highly doubt that Kinemon is stronger than Zoro.
In any case, when were four specific samurai depicted?
@Formation:
Kinemon has more experience than Zoro he has no chance against Kinemon. Kinemon was handicapped because of Momonosuke. Though Kinemon wasn't included in the picture of the 4 Samurai that Brook mentioned about Wano to Zoro.
Brook said the swordsman of Wano. Nothing about four top fighters. Zoro also have been training for all his life.
Six of the Shichibukai weren't depicted in Johnny or Yosaku's description of them, though. It was Mihawk and six nonexistent figures. Brook's description of the Wano samurai probably wasn't referencing anyone specific.
Luffy beat the top fighters of a fighting island.
Which island ?
I highly doubt that Kinemon is stronger than Zoro.
In any case, when were four specific samurai depicted?
Punk Hazard chapter. When brook mentioned the Samurai being strong that WG/Marines don't go there 4 Samurai were blackened out. Characters who are darkened out always get introduced later in the story.
Kinemon has more experience than Zoro.
@Medical:
Six of the Shichibukai weren't depicted in Johnny or Yosaku's description of them, though. It was Mihawk and six nonexistent figures. Brook's description of the Wano samurai probably wasn't referencing anyone specific.
Which island ?
Amazon Lily. Only he didn't beat was the empress.
@Formation:
Kinemon has more experience than Zoro.
The cast casually beats the shit out of people 30-40 years older than them.
Experience has never meant much.
@Formation:
Punk Hazard chapter. When brook mentioned the Samurai being strong that WG/Marines don't go there 4 Samurai were blackened out. Characters who are darkened out always get introduced later in the story.
Kinemon has more experience than Zoro.
Zoro trained his whole life. And Brook wasn't talking about anyone specific but the whole island.
The cast casually beats the shit out of people 30-40 years older than them.
Experience has never meant much.
Kinemon has mastered his style while Zoro hasn't. Kinemon has been using the sword much longer than him. He is more skillful/experienced than Zoro. Even now I see Zoro having difficulty against his first mentor Koshiro.
@Formation:
Kinemon has mastered his style while Zoro hasn't. Kinemon has been using the sword much longer than him. He is more skillful/experienced than Zoro. Even now I see Zoro having difficulty against his first mentor Koshiro.
You consider Koshiro as a big shot!!!
And this really off-topic
Zoro trained his whole life. And Brook wasn't talking about anyone specific but the whole island.
Yes but you also have to factor in there are Samurai there who have been training much longer than him (Who are older than him). Zoro is only 21, if there is a Samurai who is 25-26 he won't be stronger than him. Not only are katanas made there, but they know what swords Zoro is using. Sword styles that have been mastered are taught to others compared to a Sword style (Santoryu) that is incomplete and not mastered.
Of course Brook hasn't been there so he doesn't know who those people are. They are going to be introduced whoever the 4 Samurai are. Going with the obvious and story telling they are the strongest Samurai on the Island. Meaning Zoro has no chance against them.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You consider Koshiro as a big shot!!!
And this really off-topic
There must be a good reason why his Sword Dojo is in East Blue and not in Wano.
Don't you find it a bit odd he looks similar to the Gorosei guy who has a supreme sword?
There really isn't a general fighting level thread? Zoro style is unique. Nobody use three swords besides him.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Formation:
There must be a good reason why his Sword Dojo is in East Blue and not in Wano.
Don't you find it a bit odd he looks similar to the Gorosei guy who has a supreme sword?
Most of the swords aren't in Wano. We don't even know if they originated from there. Don't tell me you think Koshiro has connection with the world governement now. But if he was he could have receive it as a gift. Pretyy sure either it's heritage, a gift or he bought it.
You know, I'd say I'm 50/50 on the whole "Shanks will die" thing. I could see it being relevant to the plot in a sense that it will drive Luffy or something along those lines. Still, I think Shanks is really cool and I'd wish he'd show up more, so it would be a bummer if he ended up dying.
As for the on-topic question, I sorta always imagined him meeting Shanks after reaching the One Piece and becoming Pirate King- achieving his dream in life. Though, I don't think he'll necessarily return it. Possibly, Shanks could be like "Keep the hat, you've earned it,l or "It's yours now," or something, and then at some point down the line Luffy will give the hat to another young, aspiring child, thus continuing the cycle.
Or idk, who knows. It just sounds ideal to me.
As for the samurai off-topic discussion, I'm pretty sure there can be Sword Dojos anywhere in the One Piece world, wherever there is a teacher who is willing to instruct others in the ways of the sword. Their location doesn't really matter much.
Also, I wouldn't say Zolo doesn't stand a chance. He was under the wing of Mihawk for two years, thus his strength and skill has grown exponentially. Pre-Timeskip he even managed a fight against Ryuma, who was a legendary samurai from Wano. If he did fight one now, in a healthy, prime state (such as Kinemon), I could see it being a close match, or even a draw. But to say that Zolo doesn't stand a chance based on nothing is ridiculous. Isn't his whole drive centered around "never losing in another swordfight until the day he beats Mihawk"? Surely his ambition would push him to win a fight, even if he was outclassed?
In One Piece, there are no rigid power rankings, but determination proves to be a great strength. This is basically the reason why Luffy was able to beat Crocodile, despite being outclassed (or beaten two times previously and narrowly surviving), as his ambition allowed him to keep on fighting until he beat Crocodile.
So based on that, Zolo has done the same thing, and could do it again when faced up against the Wano samurai. But we'll just have to wait and see if that'll ever happen.
You know, I'd say I'm 50/50 on the whole "Shanks will die" thing. I could see it being relevant to the plot in a sense that it will drive Luffy or something along those lines. Still, I think Shanks is really cool and I'd wish he'd show up more, so it would be a bummer if he ended up dying.
As for the on-topic question, I sorta always imagined him meeting Shanks after reaching the One Piece and becoming Pirate King- achieving his dream in life. Though, I don't think he'll necessarily return it. Possibly, Shanks could be like "Keep the hat, you've earned it,l or "It's yours now," or something, and then at some point down the line Luffy will give the hat to another young, aspiring child, thus continuing the cycle.
Or idk, who knows. It just sounds ideal to me.
As for the samurai off-topic discussion, I'm pretty sure there can be Sword Dojos anywhere in the One Piece world, wherever there is a teacher who is willing to instruct others in the ways of the sword. Their location doesn't really matter much.
Also, I wouldn't say Zolo doesn't stand a chance. He was under the wing of Mihawk for two years, thus his strength and skill has grown exponentially. Pre-Timeskip he even managed a fight against Ryuma, who was a legendary samurai from Wano. If he did fight one now, in a healthy, prime state (such as Kinemon), I could see it being a close match, or even a draw. But to say that Zolo doesn't stand a chance based on nothing is ridiculous. Isn't his whole drive centered around "never losing in another swordfight until the day he beats Mihawk"? Surely his ambition would push him to win a fight, even if he was outclassed?
In One Piece, there are no rigid power rankings, but determination proves to be a great strength. This is basically the reason why Luffy was able to beat Crocodile, despite being outclassed (or beaten two times previously and narrowly surviving), as his ambition allowed him to keep on fighting until he beat Crocodile.
So based on that, Zolo has done the same thing, and could do it again when faced up against the Wano samurai. But we'll just have to wait and see if that'll ever happen.
Where has it said anything about there being another sword dojo outside of Wano excluding Koshiros?
1. the strawhat crew going to raftel and blackbeards cunningly on their tails.
2. the redhaired pirates intercepted the blackbeard pirates from interupting luffy's way to one piece.
3. blackbeard leaves shanks close to death and follows luffy again.
4. luffy becomes the pirate king after acquiring one piece., upon exiting raftel, shanks meets him and is dying, being tended by his crewmates…(well, shanks could be saved but he insisted that he waits for luffy on that place since its a promise to meet him after luffy became a great pirate)
5. luffy just in time to see shanks die, he covers shanks' face with the strawhat (signaling the start of the final events of the series, just like shanks placing the hat on luffy to start to series.)
....and goes after blackbeard to finish his ass off. (well, blackbeard's not hard to find since he is aiming to steal one piece from luffy.)
Shanks will be like, "WTF, there are blood stains on this! I don't want this crap now! Hey, Law, cut off Luffy's arm and give it to me!"
On that topic, interesting how the movie Z stars a guy who got his arm cut off and replaced… think Shanks would take an arm if it were offered? (Not Luffy's, but like a dead person's or something)
When Ace died, law coulda been like... "Hey, there's a cool dead guy, and another cool guy missing an arm. room slices both ace's arm and shank's partial arm off around the shoulder fits on ace's arm onto Shanks with Room Well, seeya!"
Whether or not the arm could still be a "fire fist", I'm not sure, but that still would've been cool (if written in a much better way than that)
Honestly, if most of us were Luffy we'd be turned to stone by now.
Honestly, if most of us were Luffy we'd be turned to stone by now.
Looks down
Damn you, Hancock..!!
Someone came up with the idea, and I really loved it.
Following Big Mam's demise, the Alliance will need a place where all of them can feel safe from the Marines who will arrive to arrest Big Mam (if she will live, that is) and her crew and perhaps Kaidou who might decide to make his move to assure that what happened to BM won't happen to him.
So, what IS that safe place? Why, Shanks' territories of course. That's when Luffy will finally encounter Shanks after 12 years in which they haven't seen each other. Their encounter will happen no later than chapter 850, I suppose, since I can't see Doflamingo and Big Mam taken out by chapter 800 because I think we're going to Wano and Elbaf (which would probably be somewhat short arcs, but important) before the fall of BM.
@Formation:
Also Zoro becoming the best swordsman? Ummm.. no that's not happening. Do you honestly believe Zoro can live up to the legendary Ryumas reputation? **** no. Let's be realistic about Zoro and Wano Swordsman. He has no chance against an Island where they know what katanas he's using and swords/sword styles been passed down for generations.
How can one formulate such an opinion. Of course Zoro's going to live up to and surpass Ryuma's reputation. That's what will make his ascension so grand. It wouldn't be impressive if he wasn't surpassing the greatest.
How can one formulate such an opinion. Of course Zoro's going to live up to and surpass Ryuma's reputation. That's what will make his ascension so grand. It wouldn't be impressive if he wasn't surpassing the greatest.
You can't surpass somebody who is considered Legendary on a Island full of sword users.
@Formation:
You can't surpass somebody who is considered Legendary on a Island full of sword users.
He is a tale. like the golden city of Norland. He sliced a dragon, Zoro did it too.
I'll try and master compromise: After Luffy defeats a Yonkou I believe that Shanks'll send a message, maybe a cryptic code, potentially about his whereabouts, or perhaps information concerning OP itself. He must surely know where Raftel is, right? Or at least know more about it that many of his contemporaries. I think then Luffy will slowly move towards Shank's territory, which I believe to be in the latter part of the NW. My theory is: NW's a slim stretch of sea, so I think that Yonkou territory predominantly exists in single chunks along the NW. BM's empire exists at the start of the NW, that's why she owns FI, because its within her economic interests (this differs from Kaidou's 'favourite island' and WB's possession of FI, a philanthropic gesture, neither of which are concerned with economical profit, and therefore it is worth stretching resources in order to cater for these exceptions) therefore, BM'll be the first Yonkou they face because they ('they' = the 5 Supernova crews, who, I think, will ally with one another) are all within her territory. After her defeat, Shanks would surely contact Luffy because now he's reached Yonkou level. He'd be a hard guy to please if he didn't do so.
That has been bothering me ever since Rayleigh had that flashback. It feels like a cheap addition in order to make the hat extra legendary, while I really hoped that Luffy was just 'another' kid and not a typical shounen 'chosen' one.
Totally agree there. The Whitebeard War really tinned it with the whole 'Luffy will be PK - it's his mortal destiny!'-thing. I can acknowledge Shonen Jump's formula of 'Friendship, Struggle, Victory', and therefore understand that Luffy has to become PK, otherwise the story'd be about a totally different crew, however, all that Luffy-dick-riding from Rayleigh and WB really tried my patience.
@Formation:
You can't surpass somebody who is considered Legendary on a Island full of sword users.
Yes you can, you are wrong. There's logically no reason why he can't.
Your argument comes down to this.
1. Ryuma is a legendary swordsman on an island full of legendary swordsmen.
2. Therefore, Zoro can never surpass him.
That's one of the worst arguments I've ever seen in my life.
Yes you can, you are wrong. There's logically no reason why he can't.
Your argument comes down to this.
1. Ryuma is a legendary swordsman on an island full of legendary swordsmen.
2. Therefore, Zoro can never surpass him.That's one of the worst arguments I've ever seen in my life.
@Formation:
What is the rest of your argument then? I want you to explain to everyone why it isn't feasible for Zoro to get to a point where he's better than the Wano swordsmen.
What is the rest of your argument then? I want you to explain to everyone why it isn't feasible for Zoro to get to a point where he's better than the Wano swordsmen.
The competition in Wano is so great they wouldn't waste their time on a weak swordsman with an incomplete style. If you really think the Elites would waste their time on somebody who can't live up to Ryumas reputation that's on you.
Do you think Vista is stronger than the samurais?
Hard to say but going with his feats with Mihawk he is no scrub. He is very skilled with his flower swordsmanship (if that's DF related or Haki related we will have to find out) but he could give them a good fight.
@Formation:
Hard to say but going with his feats with Mihawk he is no scrub. He is very skilled with his flower swordsmanship (if that's DF related or Haki related we will have to find out) but he could give them a good fight.
It's obviously not confirmed, but I think it's most likely related to how Kinemon can use fire techniques with his sword or like Zoro's Asura (most likely more like Kinemon)..
@Formation:
The competition in Wano is so great they wouldn't waste their time on a weak swordsman with an incomplete style. If you really think the Elites would waste their time on somebody who can't live up to Ryumas reputation that's on you.
Zoro fought Ryuma at Thriller Bark who was considered a legend and managed to win, and after 2 years, we'd expect him to be exponentially stronger, so there's no reason he is not as good as, if not better than the wano swordsmen
@nodensuke:
It's obviously not confirmed, but I think it's most likely related to how Kinemon can use fire techniques with his sword or like Zoro's Asura (most likely more like Kinemon)..
Asura is not a sword style but a technique or Santoryu, it's not Haki related since he used it on Kaku. I still think it's DF related wouldn't be surprised since he joined the WB earlier and he gave Jozu,Marco,Thatch and Ace DFs.
Zoro fought Ryuma at Thriller Bark who was considered a legend and managed to win, and after 2 years, we'd expect him to be exponentially stronger, so there's no reason he is not as good as, if not better than the wano swordsmen
Wano Swordsman have styles that are mastered and Admirals don't go there. If Kinemon wasn't with the Strawhats none of them Especially Zoro would be able to get on the Island.
There are Samurai who are older than Zoro so that means they are more experienced and they have multiple people they can duel with.
Be realistic about Zoro's success in Wano. He has to prove something there.
just to be clear
ryuma > ryuma's body with brook's soul > brook
just to be clear
ryuma > ryuma's body with brook's soul > brook
That´s pretty much what i got from Zoro´s statement that he would have liked to meet Ryuuma when the latter was alive
@Formation:
Asura is not a sword style but a technique or Santoryu, it's not Haki related since he used it on Kaku. I still think it's DF related wouldn't be surprised since he joined the WB earlier and he gave Jozu,Marco,Thatch and Ace DFs.
I have a feeling you're going to be quite disappointed in the future then. At the end of my post I put in brackets that it's most likely more like Kinemon's fire technique that isn't devil fruit related.
But, not being haki related or using it pre time skip doesn't rule out Asura either. You don't know how long or when Vista developed that technique. When him and Mihawk started the duel he commented on wanting to see his famous flower style, the same could be said to Zoro (later down the road) and Kinemon later..
@akagami7:
just to be clear
ryuma > ryuma's body with brook's soul > brook
Are people really arguing this? Isn't that a bit obvious?
@nodensuke:
Are people really arguing this? Isn't that a bit obvious?
yes, but somehow some people keep saying zoro beated ryuuma.
yes, but somehow some people keep saying zoro beated ryuuma.
That's like..the equivalent of saying …If Luffy beat Whitebeard with Usopp's shadow he'd be the strongest man in the world.
At the end of the fight Zoro even said "Let's forget this fight even happened." and "I wish I met you in your time."
Now, Zoro vs. Kinemon's shadow inside Ryuma is something I'd like to see.
Why is this guy acting like a Wano expert?
A better question would be who gives a crap? None of this has anything to do with the OP.
Finding One piece and becoming pirate king are the same thing
@nodensuke:
I have a feeling you're going to be quite disappointed in the future then. At the end of my post I put in brackets that it's most likely more like Kinemon's fire technique that isn't devil fruit related.
But, not being haki related or using it pre time skip doesn't rule out Asura either. You don't know how long or when Vista developed that technique. When him and Mihawk started the duel he commented on wanting to see his famous flower style, the same could be said to Zoro (later down the road) and Kinemon later..
Are people really arguing this? Isn't that a bit obvious?
Unless you can prove Vista style is Haki or DF related I would believe you. Same goes for Asura being Haki related which makes no sense at all.
@nodensuke:
I think he's been there, or something?
I don't know man, arguing about something we BARELY know anything about seems kinda stupid to me. :l
@Formation:
Same goes for Asura being Haki related which makes no sense at all.
Asura itself makes no sense at all, arms and swords just come out of nowhere.
Asura itself makes no sense at all, arms and swords just come out of nowhere.
So? It's not Haki related at all, just a technique with demonic aura accompanying it.