At Esev: I thought nerfed meant to be wtfpwned? Unless nerfed means that and nerf means to do the wtfpwning lol.
Chapter 690: S.A.D
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@Friend:
At Esev: I thought nerfed meant to be wtfpwned? Unless nerfed means that and nerf means to do the wtfpwning lol.
Nerf means to make weaker (or more accurately, less over-powered), usually by administrative action and not related to anything canon in-universe.
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Ah right thanks! It's going to be interesting seeing Luffy fight a df user in the end who has 2 fruits. I wonder how rubber will beat black holes and earthquakes.
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@Friend:
Ah right thanks! It's going to be interesting seeing Luffy fight a df user in the end who has 2 fruits. I wonder how rubber will beat black holes and earthquakes.
If bb uses black whole there won't be rubber only luffy and haki. and this isn't the place to discuss this :)
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Would you give drugs in a bag to a the guard of a little child? And it doesn't matter that that child is a monster in someway.
Chopper must be fired for that. Why not to hide the bag, before the children came for it. And, with all the resources of the Straw hats, is not believable the fact that the children reached Mocha and the bag. Robin could hide it with easy, for instance, instead of trying to stop the children. (Could flew away with it, none of the children can fly.). It seems to me a bit forced, only to create more drama, in a moment that it was very dramatic by its own.
Could haves and should haves are only perception from the audience, but eh.
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Don't know how big his range of "ROOM" is, but you should understand how his room works before you continue.
His room allows him to interchange or do anything to anything INSIDE his room. If his Room does encompass the entire island, that still dont' help. The poison gas has envoloped the entire island, so he can't exactly move it. He can only move it within his room, and if the gas is cover 99% of his room, he doesn't have much space to move the gas around.
As others have said, I believe his huge slice was not his room but a Mihawk cutting the wave slice. We have seen his room being hugely improved in size earlier, but I doubt it can encompass the entire facility, let alone the island.
Well, If it can encompass our heroes, isn't there a way for Law to keep the gas away from them?
If Vergo is in the room, so are the rest of them.
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plot other wise that shouldn't really have happened
and luffy already said zoro can use COA so he probably would have been able to deal with the no air systemWhat the type of relation do you find between an armour( COA) and air. People should really stop taking Haki for magic. And explain me why Luffy shouldn't suffocate if missing air .
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I think you guys are underestimating Ceasar who has a 300 mil bounty and on top of that he is a logia type and luffy never lost to him in a physical contest:He lost the the first match as he ran in without thinking , won the second but was stalled by monet and is easily overpowering him in the 3rd . I dont see how this makes luffy inept.
Logia are weak physically because they don't have to take punch and Ceasar bounty is for being a mad scientist who can create mass destruction weapon.
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Smoker is really stupid.He can use his fruit for suffocation on the enemy or large smoke fog. After 700 chapters at least he use it for little blurring.
Before that he just use the fruit for the logia invisibility,which is useless in the New world.Crocodile needs to teach him how to use his logia fruit properly. -
Did you not understand what Vergo said?
Smoker trying to "suffocate" Vergo, a haki master, is like you trying to cover Vergo's mouth with your hands in hopes he'll just sit there, suffocate and die. -
Did you not understand what Vergo said?
Smoker trying to "suffocate" Vergo, a haki master, is like you trying to cover Vergo's mouth with your hands in hopes he'll just sit there, suffocate and die.Did haki makes your lungs iron or something?Luffy fell asleep from the sleeping gas.
At least that can slow down Vergo a little. Smoker was just trowing punches like usual. -
Smoker even "reaching" for his mouth is like you reaching for his mouth with your hands.
Spreading himself thin as smoke is simply more area to hit for Vergo. He clearly explained it in the chapter, go read it again. -
Yeah it'd amount to Luffy fighting Mihawk. Having a longer body is pretty much a disadvantage. Just more lingering surface area to cut up/pummel.
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Smoker even "reaching" for his mouth is like you reaching for his mouth with your hands.
Spreading himself thin as smoke is simply more area to hit for Vergo. He clearly explained it in the chapter, go read it again.What if Smoker entered Vergo's lungs? He could do some damage in there.
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"What if Luffy Jet Gattling'd Mihawk?"
You're assuming Vergo would let Smoker do that. Just hitting Vergo at all seems to be fairly difficult for Smoker.
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Ok,lets say that this will not work against Vergo(which is just speculation,like every stupid guy vs guy argument,only the autor decides who win).
My point is that Smoker use his fruit really bad compared to other logia like Crocodile or even Monet. -
My point is that Smoker use his fruit really bad compared to other logia like Crocodile or even Monet.
Either that, or his fruit is just bad. The only special properties it has are those shared by all Logias, and those properties are easily negated by Haki. Now, if he could actually asphyxiate people with smoke or something, then it would be a different story.
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To make it visually short, replace Monet with CC in this panel:
! http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121031175146/onepiece/es/images/2/28/Zoro_corta_a_Monet.png
and you will realize that Zoro would take care of Ceasar more efficiently than Luffy. They (Monet and Ceasar) both are logia, and for Zoro can go from the safe zone (where you can breath) to Ceasar location as fast as Luffy, for sure. … Well maybe, Zoro would have it a bit hard if it was about capturing Ceasar...Beyond that plot hole, and the scene with Mocha eating the bag of candies, I really love this arc.
You know i don´t like these match up discussions but you realize that Zoro is way slower than Luffy who still had problem with Caesar taking away the air, Zoro probably would lose against that rather easily. Him taking care of Monet in that way has no significance whatsoever in a theoretical fight with CC.
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I was under the impression that smoker purposely used his fruit in a way that wasn't optimal to fight someone like Vergo so that he could have the oppurtunity to get Law's heart back. By doing that he removed the debt he owed Law that he couldn't bear to even face his men while having, so really it was his best chance to do something like that. If you look at it like that then smoker really took such a beating just for his pride which is kinda cool.
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I was under the impression that smoker purposely used his fruit in a way that wasn't optimal to fight someone like Vergo so that he could have the oppurtunity to get Law's heart back. By doing that he removed the debt he owed Law that he couldn't bear to even face his men while having, so really it was his best chance to do something like that. If you look at it like that then smoker really took such a beating just for his pride which is kinda cool.
Or he could have just beaten Vergo and given Law the heart afterward. But it does seem like he may have not been able to win that fight, so that was the only option.
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I think that's valid but i also refuse to believe he would use his DF in such an awkward way against an opponent like Vergo for no reason. Characters only do something like that when they're desperate or overly emotional and smoker seemed to be his usual self before, during, and after the fight.
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Did haki makes your lungs iron or something?Luffy fell asleep from the sleeping gas.
At least that can slow down Vergo a little. Smoker was just trowing punches like usual.I was under the impression it was because of lack of air. Didn't CC suck the air out of Luffy's reach back then?
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@HTC:
I was under the impression it was because of lack of air. Didn't CC suck the air out of Luffy's reach back then?
The first time Luffy collapsed because of the poisonous gas and the second time CC took the oxygen from the air
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I think that there is simply not much you can do with smoke. Sure Smoker seemed to be able to harden it to a smal degree to hold weaker people and used to block Ace's flames but that's pretty much the extent. Smoke is simply weak to be used against anybody trained enough to fight against a logia. Maybe Smoker can find some morea abstract uses like I don't…some kind of illusions the way Nami makes or....you know no. I just can't think of anything smoke is good for in higher power levels.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Don't know how big his range of "ROOM" is, but you should understand how his room works before you continue.
His room allows him to interchange or do anything to anything INSIDE his room. If his Room does encompass the entire island, that still dont' help. The poison gas has envoloped the entire island, so he can't exactly move it. He can only move it within his room, and if the gas is cover 99% of his room, he doesn't have much space to move the gas around.
As others have said, I believe his huge slice was not his room but a Mihawk cutting the wave slice. We have seen his room being hugely improved in size earlier, but I doubt it can encompass the entire facility, let alone the island.
I wonder if he can simply interchange or if his ability extends even further then this. For example maybe he can change the gas to a liqud or solid state and contain it completley.
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The first time Luffy collapsed because of the poisonous gas and the second time CC took the oxygen from the air
Right: had forgotten about that.
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if you ask me smokers fruit is meant to be more versatile like luffy's is, while it doesn't necessarily seem powerful from the get go. Obviously from what we've seen it means smoker has a long way to go, but i'm sure we could be very creative with some of it's uses. Forcing people to fight blind in smoke clouds, asphyxiation while it seems like a copy of cc's ability it wouldn't be the same kind, maybe he can gear 2nd turn up his temperature and turn into ash and become a mini shinokuni? =/
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That doesn't change the core of my last post:
Here goes another theory:
Oda explained in one of his first SBS that a DF user's clother "have the same powers" as the DF user himself (they are stretching, turning to sand, fire, etc.)
Now what if the Smile-DFs can't affect their users' clothes.The only reason for that was because if oda didn't do that then there will be more nudity..so there wont be any difference like that i think!!
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I loved how Oda drew a gear on the last spread. It was a nice touch. (It might be because of my shitty memory, but as far as I recall he doesn't implement stuff like that into his pages that often.)
The first half was enjoyable, but having the chapter end with the epicness of Law again is starting to annoy me. The repercussions will be interesting, though.
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Mangarule scanlation is out : http://mangarulereader.hostoi.com/MANGARULEREADER/?manga=One+Piece++Shonen+Jump&chapter=690+mangarule#page=1
I loved how Oda drew a gear on the last spread. It was a nice touch. (It might be because of my shitty memory, but as far as I recall he doesn't implement stuff like that into his pages that often.)
Law said that they will smash the gear(s) that Dofla has been making and Oda drew that gear between CC and BM, so by drawing it there Oda basically heavily implied(or you can even say that he confirmed) that the Yonkou Law and Luffy(and the Kid-Apoo-Hawkins alliance) want to take down is really BM.
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Law said that they will smash the gear(s) that Dofla has been making and Oda drew that gear between CC and BM, so by drawing it there Oda basically heavily implied(or you can even say that he confirmed) that the Yonkou Law and Luffy(and the Kid-Apoo-Hawkins alliance) want to take down is really BM.
I did realize that the gear was directly connected to Law's speech and not just a random illustration between manga panels. :)
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What the type of relation do you find between an armour( COA) and air. People should really stop taking Haki for magic. And explain me why Luffy shouldn't suffocate if missing air .
.Zoro underwater pretty handy
plus zoro can stay out of range and send air slashes which we saw him use againt monet imbune with coa haki -
Zoro underwater pretty handy
plus zoro can stay out of range and send air slashes which we saw him use againt monet imbune with coa hakiAgain, not liking a discussion about theoretical match up but CC was able to dodge Luffy´s Kane from close range, so he would have no problems to dodge Zoro´s slashes. Monet was occupied with Tashigi and did not show any sign of CoO at all, so it was not hard for her to get cut.
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Or he could have just beaten Vergo and given Law the heart afterward. But it does seem like he may have not been able to win that fight, so that was the only option.
I also thought about this, but then I realized that Smoker defeating Vergo and giving Law his heart afterwards doesn't count as him returning the favour to Law since, well, Law himself could just take his heart form Vergo once he was defeated. Because of this he chose to retrieve Law's heart and let him finish off Vergo to pay his debt, his pride is that strong. I personally really liked it, since after all Smoker didn't lose (He is still conscious, and in better state that Law after Vergo's previous beating) and he delivered a lot of hits to Vergo, weakening him a lot. Since Vergo should still be conscious after Law's heart, maybe he even gets to deliver Vergo the finishing blows. In the end, I think that had he fought to win, he would have defeated Vergo: He is for sure up there with Luffy in power.
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I like this chapter especialy ceasar's face and reaction to luffy not give a damm and kinemon after know what to happen to his son meaning however the reason he has grudge to dragons his son is more important even if he becomes one the only thing i'm worried is the way events are unfolding smiley fruit will be in the abandoned on the wasteland and this being Smiley last apearence but perhaps ceasar has already on the lab, and ussop on the second floor can catch it. I just don't want this being Smiley last arc(he can have other body type like the kabuto:ninja:) dofla crew or the strawhats i'm good.
And the way Law defeat vergo cauth me off guard (and great speech by him).And thanks ccc for the chapter.
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I can see this arc going to end soon, because vergo is taken care off and he stopped the S.A so the big players can finally start to move , CC is gonna do his final move or notice that vergo lose next chapter and see things going wrong smiley has gathered inside and in the R.room is frank .
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So now the debt has shifted - Smoker is no longer in debt to Law, Law is in debt to Smoker for getting it back.
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So now the debt has shifted - Smoker is no longer in debt to Law, Law is in debt to Smoker for getting it back.
Ehm, that´s not how paying your debt back works. Smoker owed him, now that he got Law´s heart back, they are neutral again (besides the whole pirate marine thing obviously).
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You know i don´t like these match up discussions but you realize that Zoro is way slower than Luffy who still had problem with Caesar taking away the air, Zoro probably would lose against that rather easily. Him taking care of Monet in that way has no significance whatsoever in a theoretical fight with CC.
Yes, this kind of discussion are really boring. So to end it in one shot, post a picture where canon shows that Luffy is faster than Zoro, and I will agree.
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Yes, this kind of discussion are really boring. So to end it in one shot, post a picture where canon shows that Luffy is faster than Zoro, and I will agree.
Just read 690 chapters of One Piece and you will see that both movement and attack wise Luffy is far superior in speed, you´re welcome
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Just read 690 chapters of One Piece and you will see that both movement and attack wise Luffy is far superior in speed, you´re welcome
Sorry to say it, but this is the kind of statements that make those discussions boring. Both parts only can offer hypothesis or speculations and give no definitive evidence in favor of their thesis. To make it short, I will rewrite my post in a way that makes clear that:
- I have no comminent neither with the idea that Luffy is as fast as Zoro nor that one of them is faster than the other. TBH, I don't mind a bit who is faster, to me it is ok if Nami can supass them in a race. And
- that I was agreeing with your previous coment which motived my post:
To make it visually short, replace Monet with CC in this panel:
! http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121031175146/onepiece/es/images/2/28/Zoro_corta_a_Monet.png
and you will realize that Zoro would take care of Ceasar more efficiently than Luffy. They (Monet and Ceasar) both are logia, and for Zoro can go from the safe zone (where you can breath) to Ceasar locationas fast as Luffy, fast enought to beat him (as well as Sanji too), for sure . … Well maybe, Zoro would have it a bit hard if it was about capturing Ceasar...Beyond that plot hole, and the scene with Mocha eating the bag of candies, I really love this arc.
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Next chapter prediction: The gas seeps into the building because of Law's attack, and everyone dies.
One Piece ends.
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@Ukimix: It´s not even about CC anymore and trust me, i totally understood that your were agreeing with me, not putting Zoro as the superior one or something. The thing is, Luffy never fought against Zoro (if we ignore the little skirmish in Whiskey Peak) nor did they attack the same opponent for a longer period of time, so that we could compare their respective feats in the same panel. So what are we supposed to do? We compare the feats they have shown separately. Now Jabra has given one panel in which Luffy uses Soru in an advanced way and nothing that Zoro ever showed in these 690 chapters comes close to that speed wise. Another one would be in the last chapter where Luffy surprisingly appears behind CC who moments before used his laser. So, just like you, i am not trying to make a certain character look better than the other, i am just trying illustrate how certain characters are depicted and what kind conclusions i drew from those depictions. I admit that my post was not 100% serious and a bit sarcastic but that does not mean that it does not hold any truth to it.
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Next chapter prediction: The gas seeps into the building because of Law's attack, and everyone dies.
One Piece ends.
That actually made my day.
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@Ukimix: It´s not even about CC anymore and trust me, i totally understood that your were agreeing with me, not putting Zoro as the superior one or something. The thing is, Luffy never fought against Zoro (if we ignore the little skirmish in Whiskey Peak) nor did they attack the same opponent for a longer period of time, so that we could compare their respective feats in the same panel. So what are we supposed to do? We compare the feats they have shown separately. Now Jabra has given one panel in which Luffy uses Soru in an advanced way and nothing that Zoro ever showed in these 690 chapters comes close to that speed wise. Another one would be in the last chapter where Luffy surprisingly appears behind CC who moments before used his laser. So, just like you, i am not trying to make a certain character look better than the other, i am just trying illustrate how certain characters are depicted and what kind conclusions i drew from those depictions. I admit that my post was not 100% serious and a bit sarcastic but that does not mean that it does not hold any truth to it.
This helps: to be told, One Piece manga doesn't need neither of these statements:
1. Luffy is faster than Zoro
2. Zoro is faster than Luffy
3. Luffy is as faster as Zoro
4. Nami is faster than all Straw hats, (which is obviously the true.)Note: we have never saw X until now is not the same than X is not true or possible.
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I also thought about this, but then I realized that Smoker defeating Vergo and giving Law his heart afterwards doesn't count as him returning the favour to Law since, well, Law himself could just take his heart form Vergo once he was defeated. Because of this he chose to retrieve Law's heart and let him finish off Vergo to pay his debt, his pride is that strong. I personally really liked it, since after all Smoker didn't lose (He is still conscious, and in better state that Law after Vergo's previous beating) and he delivered a lot of hits to Vergo, weakening him a lot. Since Vergo should still be conscious after Law's heart, maybe he even gets to deliver Vergo the finishing blows. In the end, I think that had he fought to win, he would have defeated Vergo: He is for sure up there with Luffy in power.
Only defeating Vergo would have been enough to return the favor, because Vergo was going to kill Law anyway.
But when it became obvious that Vergo wasn't going down, Smoker had to settle with getting Law's heart back in order to repay the debt.
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Power levels and comparisons don't really matter in One Piece, because it's all relative to how Oda wants to tell the story.
Up until now, we were all under the assumption that Haki > Devilfruit powers. It's all about setting up rules and breaking them to keep things interesting.
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Only defeating Vergo would have been enough to return the favor, because Vergo was going to kill Law anyway.
But when it became obvious that Vergo wasn't going down, Smoker had to settle with getting Law's heart back in order to repay the debt.
When did it become obvious that Vergo wasn't going down. They were both drawing blood from each other. Vergo is the one who stated that Smoker was fighting unlike himself in a weird manner that worked against him.
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So why would Smoker be doing that unless his goal wasn't to defeat Vergo himself but to get Law back his heart. It's only because Smoker was fighting the way that he was that Vergo takes him down but even then Smoker doesn't seem completely defeated. he's still talking and acting fine while on the ground so its not hard to assume that he wouldn't be able to just stand back up.
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I can see this arc going to end soon, because vergo is taken care off and he stopped the S.A so the big players can finally start to move , CC is gonna do his final move or notice that vergo lose next chapter and see things going wrong smiley has gathered inside and in the R.room is frank .
I still stand by my opinion that it's not going to be over so easily.
Vergo is tough, and we have all seen that Law's slashes are an inconvenience at best, as everyone he bisected kept right on fighting until taken out by other means or slashed further.
Besides that Doflamingo's subordinates are still coming, and Luffy still can't seem to be able to take out Caesar for some bizarre reason.
As a side note, as impressive as that slash through the lab was, once it falls back down it will simply merge back together same way the people bisected by Law did, so it will have no permanent effect on the lab or the island, or even SAD. -
Besides that Doflamingo's subordinates are still coming, and Luffy still can't seem to be able to take out Caesar for some bizarre reason.
Luffy is just toying with Caesar now(he isn't even using G2 anymore). He is waiting for Usopp to come with the sea-stone cuffs so that they can properly capture him.
And I'm not so impressed with that "slash", it can't be compared with a real swordsman slash of Zoro or Mihawk because the source of it is his DF, not his actual swordsman strength.
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I also thought about this, but then I realized that Smoker defeating Vergo and giving Law his heart afterwards doesn't count as him returning the favour to Law since, well, Law himself could just take his heart form Vergo once he was defeated.
There is a hole in that statement - without Smoker fighting and defeating Vergo, Law would never get his heart back.
Whether Smoker gives it to him or Law takes it off of Vergo's fallen body makes no difference, it's still thanks to Smoker that he got it back. -
Zoro underwater pretty handy
plus zoro can stay out of range and send air slashes which we saw him use againt monet imbune with coa hakiZoro had to finish fast underwater because he coudn't breathe.
And if remember correctly we are not even sure if Zoro used a air slash