I always thought that Vegapunk was supposed to be based on Leonardo da Vinci.
General Devil Fruit Discussion
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I'd prefer if Vegapunk's genius wasn't attributed to a fruit power, because it's much more genuine and gives a broader scope of human potential in the One Piece world. Whitebeard wasn't the Strongest Man in the World because of his fruit power, I don't think Vegapunk's intelligence should be based on that either.
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I'd prefer if Vegapunk's genius wasn't attributed to a fruit power, because it's much more genuine and gives a broader scope of human potential in the One Piece world. Whitebeard wasn't the Strongest Man in the World because of his fruit power, I don't think Vegapunk's intelligence should be based on that either.
I'm pretty sure Whitebeard's fruit is…75% of the reason he held the title of "Strongest Man in the World". With one punch--one grab--he could pretty much K.O. anyone. Heck...Blackbeard chased him down/killed him to acquire his Devil Fruit. During Marineford, he--more or less--used his power the entire time to fight; making it seem that he's very dependent on his Devil Fruit.
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@The:
I'm pretty sure Whitebeard's fruit is…75% of the reason he held the title of "Strongest Man in the World". With one punch--one grab--he could pretty much K.O. anyone. Heck...Blackbeard chased him down/killed him to acquire his Devil Fruit. During Marineford, he--more or less--used his power the entire time to fight; making it seem that he's very dependent on his Devil Fruit.
Gotta agree.
Ronse - Taken out by Gura.
John Giant - Taken out by Gura.
Akainu - Beaten to a pulp by Gura.
Blackbeard - Beaten to a pulp by Gura. -
Whitebeard was the Strongest in the World not only because of his fruit, but because his Stamina, his Skills with a Spear, intelligence and his own Strength.
His fight against Blackbeard showed this. He was on the Verge of death and he was able to humiliate Blackbeard int his state. He told Blackbeard what he lacked.
So If it wasn't Whitebeards Fruit which fully made him the worlds Strongest; If that were true than Blackbeard who receives Whitebeards fruit right after shouldn't have been struggled with Sengoku even with the help of his crew. -
Whitebeard was the Strongest in the World not only because of his fruit, but because his Stamina, his Skills with a Spear, intelligence and his own Strength.
His fight against Blackbeard showed this. He was on the Verge of death and he was able to humiliate Blackbeard int his state. He told Blackbeard what he lacked.
So If it wasn't Whitebeards Fruit which fully made him the worlds Strongest; If that were true than Blackbeard who receives Whitebeards fruit right after shouldn't have been struggled with Sengoku even with the help of his crew.Blackbeard didn't have years and years to master it though, like Whitebeard. (I'm assuming he got the fruit when he was young). I'll give you the stamina, intelligence (maybe), and strength part though; still think his Devil Fruit is the main reason he did so well, earned the title. And skills with his glaive? I don't know… He hardly used it during Marineford, and when he did, he used it to throw his power at...stuff.
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He used the Glaive on Blackbeard. There's no reason for the Strongest man to be carrying such a weapon if he wasn't skilled with it.
WB was a Combination of alot of things for his title as the Strongest.
If it was just because of his devil fruit, he would be treated just like Caribou.
Oda has shown us that People who depend too much on their devil fruit end up like Caribou.
WB is shown to be far from that with his dialouge with BB when they were fighting. WB Power was sucked up with BB, yet WB on the verge of death Destroyed him…. He also had Conquaror's Haki, his Illness prevented him from using it. WB is Far from being a person who depends on his fruit. -
Not to try to nit pick, but White Beards weapon isn't a Glaive per se.
It's actually called a Bisento, a spear/polearm that resembles a Scimitar and a Glaive.
Here's a picture.
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I'd say Whitebeard's fruit is a big reason for his ascension to the top, yeah.
It's why the marines were so scared when Blackbeard was able use it.That doesn't mean Whitebeard was weak without it (he was able to take out a shichibukai pretty easily).
But I don't think he'd be able to take on Akainu with no DF powers. -
@nodensuke:
Not to try to nit pick, but White Beards weapon isn't a Glaive per se.
It's actually called a Bisento, a spear/polearm that resembles a Scimitar and a Glaive.
Here's a picture.
! [http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p307/Tiger74147/Arms and Armour/GuanDao.jpg](http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p307/Tiger74147/Arms and Armour/GuanDao.jpg)
In Chinese martial arts we call it a pu dao, or guan dao. More or less a horse cutter.
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In Chinese martial arts we call it a pu dao, or guan dao. More or less a horse cutter.
Horse cutter suits it perfectly, it's massive and terrifying. Thanks for the info, I like the sound of those names.
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I'd say Whitebeard's fruit is a big reason for his ascension to the top, yeah.
It's why the marines were so scared when Blackbeard was able use it.That doesn't mean Whitebeard was weak without it (he was able to take out a shichibukai pretty easily).
But I don't think he'd be able to take on Akainu with no DF powers.Which shichibukai did he beat again? unless you referring to Croc back before he was a shichibukai??
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Whitebeard got the title because he got a draw with Roger the pirate king then Roger died making him the strongest also his devil fruit would be weaker if he was weak and Whitebeard has kings haki also he made Blackbeard beg for help while Blackbeard had Whitebeard under the power of his darkness fruit which stops him using his fruit.
Which shichibukai did he beat again? unless you referring to Croc back before he was a shichibukai??
He was talking about Crocodile like you said however Whitebeard had kings haki so he did not need his fruit to beat Crocodile.
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@Law:
Whitebeard got the title because he got a draw with Roger the pirate king then Roger died making him the strongest also his devil fruit would be weaker if he was weak and Whitebeard has kings haki also he made Blackbeard beg for help while Blackbeard had Whitebeard under the power of his darkness fruit which stops him using his fruit.
He was talking about Crocodile like you said however Whitebeard had kings haki so he did not need his fruit to beat Crocodile.
Whats king haki got to do with beating crocodile? I think you mistaking it for CoA Haki. King haki just knocks people unconcious.
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who think the samurai has the tanuku devil fruit?
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@O:
who think the samurai has the tanuku devil fruit?
The leaf on the head thingy pretty much confirms it. Its also much cooler if he has a mythical Zoan instead of some random shitty disguise-disguise paramecia ^.
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The leaf on the head thingy pretty much confirms it. Its also much cooler if he has a mythical Zoan instead of some random shitty disguise-disguise paramecia ^.
Considering how rare those are; I doubt it. Paramecia is the most common type anyways and I think Oda gave him that fruit only for the sake of "I didn't wanna cover the boob bandage girl"-joke
One piece needs silly fruits like that. Not everyone can have some awesome abilities even if it's the new world. -
One piece needs silly fruits like that. Not everyone can have some awesome abilities even if it's the new world.
How is this not awesome? Imagine if everyone just held rocks, and he turned them all into bazookas.
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How is this not awesome? Imagine if everyone just held rocks, and he turned them all into bazookas.
Well whether it is a tanuki fruit or not(mark my words; its going to be the tanuki fruit!) he has a ability that allows him to disguise himself and/or others. It doesn't allow him to transform object A into object B(Stone > Bazooka).
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How is this not awesome? Imagine if everyone just held rocks, and he turned them all into bazookas.
Well it doesn't seem like his fruit can do such things. His ability is to "disguise" meaning his ability is like Oolongs in dragonball meaning he cannot change anything else other than outer appearance.
Though who am I to underestimate his fruit. Gomu gomu no mi is a perfect example of a silly ability that packs incredible potential if used correctly.Edit: Lol Waboshi was faster.
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Well it doesn't seem like his fruit can do such things. His ability is to "disguise" meaning his ability is like Oolongs in dragonball meaning he cannot change anything else other than outer appearance.
Though who am I to underestimate his fruit. Gomu gomu no mi is a perfect example of a silly ability that packs incredible potential if used correctly.Edit: Lol Waboshi was faster.
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=35154 last quote on the main post. Also to make sure I did a little research on the Tanuki-business, there's no doubt. He is a Tanuki Zoan.
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http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=35154 last quote on the main post. Also to make sure I did a little research on the Tanuki-business, there's no doubt. He is a Tanuki Zoan.
Well I give you that but I doubt the fact that he would be zoan type. If he was; it would make sense that he needed to transform to use his abilities.
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Well I give you that but I doubt the fact that he would be zoan type. If he was; it would make sense that he needed to transform to use his abilities.
Not necessarily. If it's a mythical zoan type like many people have been saying; they can have abilities like paramecia as well as the typical zoan abilities. So he may not need to transform to use them.
You could be right though, we don't know anything about it yet.
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@nodensuke:
Not necessarily. If it's a mythical zoan type like many people have been saying; they can have abilities like paramecia as well as the typical zoan abilities. So he may not need to transform to use them.
You could be right though, we don't know anything about it yet.
Yes but Marco and Sengoku both had to transform at least partially (Marco) to use their abilities.
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Yes but Marco and Sengoku both had to transform at least partially (Marco) to use their abilities.
Who knows, if having a mythical zoan type means they have paramecia and logia traits as well, he could be able to use the powers without transforming. We've only seen two types so far with little explanation on them.
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Yes but Marco and Sengoku both had to transform at least partially (Marco) to use their abilities.
If I remember correctly Marco could regenerate like a logia even though he wasn't partially/fully transformed.
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If I remember correctly Marco could regenerate like a logia even though he wasn't partially/fully transformed.
Mmm, not when he's distracted.
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Mmm, not when he's distracted.
He might have had the sea stone hand cuffs on there because we cannot see his other hand.
@The:
Blackbeard didn't have years and years to master it though, like Whitebeard. (I'm assuming he got the fruit when he was young). I'll give you the stamina, intelligence (maybe), and strength part though; still think his Devil Fruit is the main reason he did so well, earned the title. And skills with his glaive? I don't know… He hardly used it during Marineford, and when he did, he used it to throw his power at...stuff.
We don't know when he got it but Shanks became a yonkou without a fruit so Whitebeard could have became a yonkou without one as well!
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This post is deleted!
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Mmm, not when he's distracted.
Thats right after VA Onigumo puts sea stone handcuffs on his right hand. I'm actually looking for the page in the manga brb
EDIT: http://www.mangareader.net/103-43538-6/one-piece/chapter-569.html
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I was just thinking, sea stone handcuffs nullifies/deactivates your DF ability right? So if Brook got in physical contact with sea stone hes ability would deactivate and he would simply (at least temporarily) die? Any thoughts on this subject?
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Thats right after VA Onigumo puts sea stone handcuffs on his right hand. I'm actually looking for the page in the manga brb
EDIT: http://www.mangareader.net/103-43538-6/one-piece/chapter-569.html
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I was just thinking, sea stone handcuffs nullifies/deactivates your DF ability right? So if Brook got in physical contact with sea stone hes ability would deactivate and he would simply (at least temporarily) die? Any thoughts on this subject?
Brook being alive is more like how Chopper does not turn to a reindeer when he goes into sea water because Brook is alive but he has to drown in water to die just like other devil fruit users when Brook was in water during the fishman island arc he just said he was feeling weak it did not kill him!
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@Law:
Brook being alive is more like how Chopper does not turn to a reindeer when he goes into sea water because Brook is alive but he has to drown in water to die just like other devil fruit users when Brook was in water during the fishman island arc he just said he was feeling weak it did not kill him!
1. Im talking about sea stone not sea water.
2. I'm talking about Brook not Chopper.
3. Noriko & co. could still stretch Luffys head even though he was underwater, meaning that the ability is still there/affecting the body although the user can't use it as they are so weakened that they are normally unconscious.
4. If half or less of the DF users body is submerged into sea water the user will only feel weak but they will still be able to use their ability.
5. Your statement is somewhat invalid.
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1. Im talking about sea stone not sea water.
2. I'm talking about Brook not Chopper.
3. Noriko & co. could still stretch Luffys head even though he was underwater, meaning that the ability is still there/affecting the body although the user can't use it as they are so weakened that they are normally unconscious.
4. If half or less of the DF users body is submerged into sea water the user will only feel weak but they will still be able to use their ability.
5. Your statement is somewhat invalid.
Brook's devil fruit has a one time power to bring him back alive he can never use it again to come alive again if killed he is dead forever so having sea stone handcuffs only weakens him also he never died when he was in 100% water it only weakened him so that the king of fishman island had to transport him with him holding on talking it's exactly like Luffy and Chopper's fruit in that they cannot use the power themselves but it stays on Luffy stays a rubberman,Chopper does not turn back into a reindeer so why the hell would Brook die when if he did he would stay dead!
Sea stone has the power of the sea which is why it's called sea stone however you just need more sea water to lose your powers.
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@Law:
Brook's devil fruit has a one time power to bring him back alive he can never use it again to come alive again if killed he is dead forever so having sea stone handcuffs only weakens him also he never died when he was in 100% water it only weakened him so that the king of fishman island had to transport him with him holding on talking it's exactly like Luffy and Chopper's fruit in that they cannot use the power themselves but it stays on Luffy stays a rubberman,Chopper does not turn back into a reindeer so why the hell would Brook die when if he did he would stay dead!
We're not talking about the ocean. It was proven that DF powers stay, even when submerged, WAY back in the Arlong arc.
We're talking about Kairoseki. Ace, Crocodile, Buggy, Mr. 3, Das Bones… If any of them had been able to use their powers WHILE they were in the Kairoseki handcuffs, they would have surely broken out of those handcuffs and gotten loose, long before Luffy arrived. -
1. Im talking about sea stone not sea water.
2. I'm talking about Brook not Chopper.
3. Noriko & co. could still stretch Luffys head even though he was underwater, meaning that the ability is still there/affecting the body although the user can't use it as they are so weakened that they are normally unconscious.
4. If half or less of the DF users body is submerged into sea water the user will only feel weak but they will still be able to use their ability.
5. Your statement is somewhat invalid.
1. Sea stone acts in the same way sea water does, thats why it's called sea stone.. it's the essences of water into a stone form. If Chopper had sea stone cuffs put on him, it would act the same way if he was fully thrown into water, he would be immobilized and couldn't use any abilities.
2. Brook's fruit was a one time use thing, like an extra token for life. He'll carry the negative effects of his fruit till he dies again, but for now he has no extra abilities, well besides being able to open his own skull and what not.
3. Sea stone doesn't remove an ability, it suppresses it and luffy is not a normal paramecia, he's more like Chopper in a sense. If luffy wore sea stone, he would still be rubber, but A. couldn't stretch on his own, but others could pull at him and B. would be weakened to attacks that normally wouldn't work on him.
4. That is correct, half or less but over half would render them useless.
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2. Brook's fruit was a one time use thing, like an extra token for life. He'll carry the negative effects of his fruit till he dies again, but for now he has no extra abilities, well besides being able to open his own skull and what not.
He does after the timeskip. Some pretty cool ones, actually.
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^ that may be nothing but an after-effect of him not having anything but bones left when he found his body, without a proper "cage" his soul can just run around as it wishes, he simply controls his skeletal body for the hair.
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^ that may be nothing but an after-effect of him not having anything but bones left when he found his body, without a proper "cage" his soul can just run around as it wishes, he simply controls his skeletal body for the hair.
you're forgetting the ice powers. And that those abilities were specifically stated as having come from his fruit
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Well I give you that but I doubt the fact that he would be zoan type. If he was; it would make sense that he needed to transform to use his abilities.
Chopper can talk like a man even when he is in full reindeer form and he doesn't lose his human mind. This means that he can use the power of his hito hito no mi, even when he is a full reindeer.
http://i35.mangareader.net/one-piece/600/one-piece-2423665.jpg -
Question: Would Drake's half-transformed Zoan, look like a velociraptor? :D
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Question: Would Drake's half-transformed Zoan, look like a velociraptor? :D
Nah. He will probably look more like the Lizard from Spider-Man.
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Nah. He will probably look more like the Lizard from Spider-Man.
This. But a velociraptor would actually be kinda nice.
Q: Is Chopper the only one who has several transformations? Im not talking about the Rumble Ball. Because all other Zoans seem to have hybrid and fully transformed and thats it. What am I missing here?
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This. But a velociraptor would actually be kinda nice.
Q: Is Chopper the only one who has several transformations? Im not talking about the Rumble Ball. Because all other Zoans seem to have hybrid and fully transformed and thats it. What am I missing here?
For normal zoans there are three forms: Human, hybrid and full beast..I think Chopper is the only zoan who can transform into seven? different forms (because of his rumble balls and research), I don't think any other zoan is capable so far.
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I also have a question although it's probably been discussed..
I know we don't know the name of the fruit Donflamingo has, but if it were a puppeteer/manipulation type..What would the abbreviated word for (操る) "Ayatsuru" be? If it was the fruits name.
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@nodensuke:
For normal zoans there are three forms: Human, hybrid and full beast..I think Chopper is the only zoan who can transform into seven? different forms (because of his rumble balls and research), I don't think any other zoan is capable so far.
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I also have a question although it's probably been discussed..
I know we don't know the name of the fruit Donflamingo has, but if it were a puppeteer/manipulation type..What would the abbreviated word for (操る) "Ayatsuru" be? If it was the fruits name.
Most likely it would be Aya Aya no Mi but Im pretty certain it has to do with strings so string-string fruit? (Too lazy to look the word for "string in japanese and abbreviate it.)
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Most likely it would be Aya Aya no Mi but Im pretty certain it has to do with strings so string-string fruit? (Too lazy to look the word for "string in japanese and abbreviate it.)
I think it's Mojiretsu or something, I'm not sure..But that's just string..
Ayatsuru is puppet/puppeteer, woudn't it make more sense if it was that more than string.
If it is it'd either be Moji Moji no Mi? or Aya Aya no Mi..
I really hope we find out soon, we've been in the dark for tooooo lonnnnnggg.. -
@nodensuke:
I think it's Mojiretsu or something, I'm not sure..But that's just string..
Ayatsuru is puppet/puppeteer, woudn't it make more sense if it was that more than string.But Doflamingo can also cut things with his string, like Oars's leg.
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Eu mudei um pouco a minha opinião sobre as akuma no mis, que antes eu simplesmente trazia explicações com base na ciência, mas com alguns novos livros que li tive que realmente reformular minha ideia sobre o assunto.
Estudando um pouco sobre Ocultismo, aprendi algumas coisas que revelarão numa teoria simples o que é de fato a Akuma no mi, ter esses poderes: Zoan, Paramécia e Logia.
Oda inspirou as frutas do diabo a verdadeira técnica de concessão de poderes que os demônios tem, numa simples fruta, fazendo com que não fosse necessário nenhum ritual, mas apenas o comer da fruta fizesse com que o demônio contido nela o possuísse o usuário para sempre.Isso se chama licantropia. A licantropia, segundo a explicação convencional, é o processo pelo qual pode-se transformar a matéria. Segundo a Teoria de Einstein, energia é igual amassa vezes a aceleração da luz ao quadrado. A célebre E=m.c². Eu já tinha aprendido que tudo o que existe é uma forma de energia "condensada".
O ser humano consegue equacionar isso a nível teórico. E prevê
que oprocesso inverso talvez pudesse acontecer.E de fato acontece. A licantropia é um fenômeno que se baseia nesses princípios. Os demônios se transformam e aparecem da maneira como eles querem. É um princípio muito claro. Como são formas puras de energia, têm o Poder de manipular esta energia conforme a sua vontade. Que no caso da paramécia é como se fosse feitas modificações como esta e o demônio só concede um poder. Ex Nico.
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Assim como um tronco se transforma em energia térmica e luminosa quando a energia do fogo é adicionada a ele, o mesmo pode acontecer com o ser humano.Quando é adicionado Poder.
Poder que vem das Trevas, que vem dos demônios — ao corpo físico humano… este pode ser transformado.O Poder vai além da força. A força pertence ao homem, e é limitada. Vai até um certo patamar. Mas o Poder ultrapassa e domina a força, potencializa-a. O horizonte da força é muito pequeno, restringe-se ao mundinho em que o ser humano vive. Dentro das limitações de espaço-tempo e das Leis que regem o nosso Universo de três dimensões.
Mas o mundo espiritual tem um outro conjunto de Leis que extrapola completamente as do nosso mundo. Vai além do nosso horizonte. E não é explicada pela razão. Mas os demônios, por viverem nesse Universo que vai além do nosso,são capazes de adicionar energia à nossa massa física.
Essa energia, quando adicionada à nossa matéria, condensa-se porque foi desacelerada. Isso faz com que seja adicionada matéria à nossa matéria! Daí vem a metamorfose. Ou licantropia. Ex: de Zoan, como uma metamorfose.!
Lucifér — o quinto elemento do pentagrama do ocultismo — é a representação da Luz Pura. Da Energia Pura. Os demônios de fato têm este Poder. E o concedem a quem quiser. O Poder das Trevas pode ser assim manifesto através da força humana. A licantropia existe.
Acontece. É a transformação dos filhos das Trevas em qualquer coisa que lhes seja concedido que sejam.
Antigamente esse tipo de coisa acontecia e era usado puramente com finalidades estratégicas. Por exemplo, alguém poderia transformar-se num lobo. E iria à casa de seus inimigos, ser-lhe-ia concedida a chance de fazer vingança com as próprias "mãos". E garras,e presas e mandíbulas fortes. Afinal, nada impede que pessoas sejam mortas porum lobo…ou um cão selvagem. Isso era muito comum no século dezoito. A morte era causada por um animal. Não havia pista nenhuma.
Era uma capacidade dada pelos demônios para que a vingança pudesse ser feita sem a necessidade de intervenção direta das Entidades. Daí as lendárias histórias de Lobisomens...até dizem que os Lobisomens gostavam muito de mulheres grávidas! Era uma ferramenta muito utilizada pelos Bruxos antigos. Oda utilizou bem essa teoria para defender o usuário tipo Zoan.!
Mas com o crescimento da Civilização e o aumento da urbanização isso se tornou pouco viável. E a licantropia em si passou a não ser mais algo importante anível estratégico. Resume-se em uma demonstração de Poder concedida pelos Guias aos seus escolhidos. É como levitar, não há muita vantagem em sair levitando por aí. Mas é uma clara demonstração de Poder e de patente. Não é qualquer um que recebe essas dádivas. Com isso temos mais um exemplo de paramécia, Shiki.
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Hoje em dia é muito mais utilizada, em se tratando de estratégia, a arte do desdobramento ou projeção astral. Através desta técnica pode-se ir a qualquerlugar, observar, ouvir segredos, atravessar paredes, viajar na velocidade do pensamento. Com essa estrategia temos a tradicional logia.
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E por falar em desdobramento.
Segundo o que eu havia aprendido não existe nada sólido. Isto é, o "sólido absoluto" não existe de verdade. Toda a matéria é composta por moléculas que,por sua vez, são compostas de átomos. E existem espaços entre um átomo e outro.Quando, pelo desdobramento, projetamos o nosso espírito é óbvio que ele não é composto por matéria nenhuma. Então é muito fácil compreender porque ele pode passar através de quase tudo. Assim como não se pode atravessar um pedaço de tecido com a mão, mas a água pode atravessá-lo, o mesmo acontece com o espírito. O corpo não atravessa e nem pode ir a muitos lugares, mas o espírito humano pode. O espírito atravessa os obstáculos como uma "radiação". Com isso finalizo como Brooke conseguiu dominar sua akuma no mi.
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Outro aspecto importante do desdobramento é que, saindo do corpo, não se está mais sujeito às leis de tempo e espaço. Pode-se ir de um ponto a outro num piscar de olhos.
Oda usou as teorias do Gnosis para poder concluir um dos fatores muito importante, que são as Akuma no mi. Fez a troca do ritual cabalístico, pela forma do pedado original, que era, o de comer do fruto, a ao comer perdia o direito ao Jardim do Éden, mas em onde Piece o paraíso dos piratas que é o mar, perde-se tambem o direito ao comer tal fruta.
Esses são exemplos de casos reais que os feiticeiros e bruxos usam no seu dia a dia com sua divindade espiritual, o qual podemos explanar um pouco sobre as joias do mar.Obrigado pela atenção e
comentem! -
It looks like an indepth post but I have no idea what was written there :blink: would join in your conversation if I could.
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Kemuel, no offense, i really like how you could somehow introduce the Akuma no Mi into the real worlds reality, but i think youre reading too much into it, even though i also try to fit one piece lore into some elements of our world, im pretty sure Oda himself didnt think as far as you did.
Interesting stuff nonetheless but take everything with a grain of salt, making the Akuma no Mi 100% coherent inside the OP universe is already hard, you wont get anywhere trying to include it in ours :P
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Please talk in english or go to a forum that is corresponding to your own language.
Becaue everyone here is english and what you are posting right now is just making me curious haha xD
Its like a forbidden fruit i cannot touch. I know your post is interesting, but I dont get it.. So simply post in english or just dont post. Please. Not ment to offend you ( Im not english myself, but still posting in english)