Chapter 397 "To Reach the Future" Discussion

[darktravis]

Uh no blacky, the sad part is Robin losing EVERYONE she cares about and a part of her life (including her home) and left COMPLETELY alone

[Robin Stjernberg]

Well, yeah, exept that Nico was picked on as a child, and lost everything and everyone she has lived with. That includes Clover, Olvia, Saul and all other people. =/

Edit. Darn, darktravis came before me. :D

[Razza]

That chapter was so sad, it was nice that Ajiko left her able to live but how she was even still picked on when the bustercall happened…

Lots more drama than the previous chapters aswell, I thought it was probley the most interesting part about her flashback so far.

[Zeefer]

I get the feeling we'll be seeing an Aokiji flashback in the future. Maybe then we'll get to see what Aokiji meant when he said he owed Luffy's grandfather a favor. Perhaps Saul was a sort of mentor to Aokiji, which would make Saul's death all the more tragic, as the student would be the one responsible for killing the teacher. It would also explain why he let Robin go, and why he'd be interested in seeing what would become of "Saul's seed."

[igalsfy]

@Zeefer:

I get the feeling we'll be seeing an Aokiji flashback in the future. Maybe then we'll get to see what Aokiji meant when he said he owed Luffy's grandfather a favor. Perhaps Saul was a sort of mentor to Aokiji, which would make Saul's death all the more tragic, as the student would be the one responsible for killing the teacher. It would also explain why he let Robin go, and why he'd be interested in seeing what would become of "Saul's seed."

won't people stop being sure sauro is luffy's grandfather? come on, it LUFFY'S GRANDFATHER we're talking about. of course sauro is cool, and all, but i'm waiting for something more asskickin' than just ao kiji freezing him on ohara.

[HTC]

@Razza:

That chapter was so sad, it was nice that Ajiko left her able to live but how she was even still picked on when the bustercall happened…

We haven't seen the Buster Call yet: the island, though burning, is still there, and Spandam said "it wasn't on any map the following year, was it?" (something close to this).

[smurfx]

@igalsfy:

won't people stop being sure sauro is luffy's grandfather? come on, it LUFFY'S GRANDFATHER we're talking about. of course sauro is cool, and all, but i'm waiting for something more asskickin' than just ao kiji freezing him on ohara.

what if Akainu is luffy's grandfather? maybe that's the real reason luffy freaked out when he heard about his grandpa. what's the favor aokiji owes him? i have no idea but it is nice to speculate. :D if akainu really is luffy's grandfather that could be the reason why oda didn't show his face because that would give it away if they looked to much alike.

[myogatheflea]

Another pretty damn amazing chapter this time around. Looks like the flashback is over, or at least close to ending.

[Kurow]

Its finally over :D thanks god XD

Now quick Luffy vs Lucci please… and Ussop using dial weapons :)

[Darkariel]

I think the flashback might be nearing the end

The next thing will be Sauro's words about nakama going throught Nico Robin's head and she'll look to the strawhats and will learn the meaning of what Sauro said a long time ago and the excepted fight will start

And just one thing I started to consider Aka Inu looks like he's from Lucci's family (blood thrist)

[Ms. Suave Debonair]

Now that we have seen Akainu, I believe that he doesn't have a devil fruit ability, at least not during the Ohara flashback.

Whenever we are introduced to a character who later uses a devil fruit ability, we see some indictaion of their ability, even if it turns out to be different from what we expect. When we first see Buggy, we see him use it to strangle one of his pirates, we didn't know what it was but we knew he had one.

Same goes for Nico Robin, when we first see her aboard the Going Merry, we see her use it to swipe Luffy's hat, again, we don't see what it is but we know she has one.

This is also most likely for Doflamingo, we see he uses some sort of trick but what it is exactly remains a mystery. Although, with Doflamingo I believe that it isn't just going to be the power to manipulate people, mainly because it's so obvious that there's no point trying to keep it a secret. It is more likely to be something like, he can only control hands or bone.

anyway, based on previous examples of devil fruit users in One Piece, I don't think Akainu has one.

[Buccaneer]

Yeah, I'm abandoning the Sauro being grandpa thing. Kiji ripped him up like a sucker.

Looking at some of these…I say we all abandon these bloodline things from Robin's flashback. Well, except Spandine and Spandam.

[Battle Franky]

@Buccaneer:

Yeah, I'm abandoning the Sauro being grandpa thing. Kiji ripped him up like a sucker.

True, It was a rather easy defeat. Though, bear in mind Sauro had just turned over half a Buster Fleet and Kuzan suckered him from behind at the start, plus he had Robin hindering him, so it was hardly a fair fight to begin with.

[Mr_Wonx]

sob That was a great chapter

[Demon Days]

@smurfx:

what if Akainu is luffy's grandfather? maybe that's the real reason luffy freaked out when he heard about his grandpa. what's the favor aokiji owes him? i have no idea but it is nice to speculate. :D if akainu really is luffy's grandfather that could be the reason why oda didn't show his face because that would give it away if they looked to much alike.

Yeah, I thought Akainu and Sauro looked alike, to be honest.

I think Oda should drag this on for another 3 chapters, to piss off the people waiting for the fight. XD

[Ms. Suave Debonair]

it seemed to me Akainu and Roger had something in common, Oda hsn't let us see their eyes. . Whether that is a connection to something, I don't know.

[Ubiq]

@HTC:

We haven't seen the Buster Call yet

What are you talking about? We just saw it happen over the past two chapters. Ten battleships and five Vice Admirals launched an attack on Ohara. Is anybody on the island still alive? Is anything left standing on the island?

The Navy might send Marines in on a sweep to see if anything is left intact after the flames die down, but that was pretty much it. Some people seem unsatisfied with it after building up somewhat unreasonable expectations of what it was supposed to be, but what we saw:
A) did everything that it was supposed to do, which was kill or burn everything on Ohara.
B) was entirely in line with the displayed level of Naval technology.
C) made complete sense from a tactical perspective.

Anything more by the Navy is really unnecessary; it goes from overkill to a complete waste of resources after this point.

[theinvisibleworm]

Is yellow the color commonly associated with cowardice? It's probably unlikely that spandain is an admiral - for obvious reasons, but the name 'could' make sense.

I think that the Red Dog is called the red dog for much the same reason Zeff was called the red leg, by the way, rather than because he has some kind of "lava" power.

[Paulie]

Well, that was awesome. But it seems pretty obvious to me that this flashback is OVER. There's nothing more that needs to be explained. Sure, some things happened between that point and where Robin is now, but that's the case with all of the Straw Hats. I mean, Nami's flashback doesn't go on into all the pirates she sided with and then swindled, now does it?

In any case, that last image is the perfect place to end the flashback, and it looks like it will do so.

Which would mean next chapter we can see some awesomeness. I doubt the fight will begin right away; after all, the drawbridge still needs to be lowered, but still awesomeness.

[Ivotas]

Just is case nobody noticed I wanted to let everyone know that Stephen´s script on this chapter is out. Get it here. :steve:

[Yoska]

@Demon:

I think Oda should drag this on for another 3 chapters, to piss off the people waiting for the fight. XD

You know, I'd love that. Not the dragging part but another three chapters of awesomeness. But I guess all the good things has to end - even flashbacks. I'm not so waiting the fights at all.

Thanks, Ivotas, I didn't knew.

[Oboro Tennosuke]

Gah. Awesome chapter….but now I hate you, Oda. You just showed us a minimum glimpse of Akainu....just to let the fans speculate like crazy, who knows when We'll see him again....I hate these kind of things....at least show us more, dammit! Ok, he likes hoods, so what?

Forgive my rant, people...I just can't wait to see this red dog again....and damn isn't he ruthless. I wonder if he was "brainwashed" by the WG too...or that's his justice. We'll see.

I might be biased since I'm studying Japanese history, but this whole cover-up the WG is attempting in OP....sounds exactly like the cover-up the Japanese government uses to hide Japan's war crimes...even in history books.
It can't be a coincidence....at least not fully.....

[KatanaJon1.1]

Sorry if this was mentioned before, but it appears that Robin didn't take Saul's hat.

But now we know why she prefers that type of hat.

[Deicide]

Yeah, I'm abandoning the Sauro being grandpa thing. Kiji ripped him up like a sucker.

Luffy also lost to Aokiji quite easily, if I remember well…
So what's the problem if Sauro, after destroying half of the Buster Call fleet, loses to him?

[Le Lawliet]

I'm not really sure that she can wear that hat XD but as a sentimental thing, I'm surprised that she didn't take it. but you've got a point there Katana Jon.

[KatanaJon1.1]

What the hell? I can't find that pic of where the hat appears REALLY tiny on his head. That's probably where this idea came from.Or mabye I'm tired.

If I find it I'll post it.

[KamenRiderNeko]

@Battle:

One Piece - 397

Take one, it's a tear jerker.

:bawling:

;__; thanks, I really needed that.

wow…. that was... intense.

thanks for the translation, ooshi.

I can't even think of the right words to say... this really had me in tears, but I gotta control myself while I'm at work... but still. wow.

[Daz]

This may sound weird, but the refugee ship blowing up was JUST what I needed; Aside from Spandines antics, it was the only thing in the flashback oozing malice to me, and the best flashback parts are initiated by asshole-characters.
Er, What I mean is, a thing like that boosted the drama on so many levels.

So, on the subject of the 3 admirals, we've got:

A "Red Dog", where I take red as in agressive/blood. Enforces ultimate justice, is ruthless and stern.
"blue Pheasant", as in calm, laid back, though grumpy. Enforces relative/half assed justice.

Now, For Yellow monkey it's already been pointed out that yellow can be a symbol of cowardice, but it is also a colour of kindness and warmth.
So, I see Kizeru as something between Akainu and Kiji: A (stuttering?), kind, but nervous guy, always friendly to his subordinates (perhaps uncomfortable around them?), always following orders, even if he's indescisive and nervous.

[Ms. Suave Debonair]

When I first thought aboutthe 3 admirals I thought it might be like a rock, paper, scissors type thing.

Where, one of them has an incredible strength in one field but is weak in another, with another being strong in that field but weak in another and so fourth.

So they have both weak and strong characteristics when working on their own but when they are put together they become an incredibly strong, power house, killing force.

EDIT:I have a feeling it is like this..

Aokiji: has strength but lacks "Gorousei way of thinking"
Akainu: Has "Gorousei way of thinking" but lacks Compassion
Kizeru: Has Compassion but lacks Strength

[Ubiq]

@The:

Now, For Yellow monkey it's already been pointed out that yellow can be a symbol of cowardice, but it is also a colour of kindness and warmth.
So, I see Kizeru as something between Akainu and Kiji: A (stuttering?), kind, but nervous guy, always friendly to his subordinates (perhaps uncomfortable around them?), always following orders, even if he's indescisive and nervous.

I somewhat picture him as being more of a lovable doofus type and more of a spiritual rallying point for the rest of the Navy to balance out Akainu's more hard-nosed, militaristic nature. Aokiji is too detached for that sort of thing; he cares, but appears to actively seperate himself at the same time like he's trying not to.

I also kind of hope that neither of the other two are as strong as Aokiji. That way, where the Navy is concerned, Aokiji is the brawn, Akainu is the brains, and Kizaru is the soul while Sengoku is all of them at once, but with the political savvy to match

[Daz]

That could work; he could personify the "true Justice" of Smoker.

However, in the power department, I supsect they're equal in the sense that they can't beat each other (in the same way Smoker vs. Ace was a tie) -but I could picture Akainu as the strongest, opposed to others….To me, he seems like a guy who, in a pinch, would lose his cool and go berserk on the enemy. Like a marine Arlong.

[HTC]

@Ubiq:

What are you talking about? We just saw it happen over the past two chapters. Ten battleships and five Vice Admirals launched an attack on Ohara. Is anybody on the island still alive? Is anything left standing on the island?

The Navy might send Marines in on a sweep to see if anything is left intact after the flames die down, but that was pretty much it. Some people seem unsatisfied with it after building up somewhat unreasonable expectations of what it was supposed to be, but what we saw:
A) did everything that it was supposed to do, which was kill or burn everything on Ohara.
B) was entirely in line with the displayed level of Naval technology.
C) made complete sense from a tactical perspective.

Anything more by the Navy is really unnecessary; it goes from overkill to a complete waste of resources after this point.

According to Blueno, on chapter 374, page 17, that's all the Buster Call is but, in chapter 391, page 9, when Spandam says: "It's the power that obliterated your home town Nico Robin!!! The word "Ohara" … dissapeared from the following year's map, didn't it ...?", that makes believe that there's much more to the Buster Call. Unless i miss interpreted (spelling??), with "The word "Ohara" ... dissapeared from the following year's map, didn't it …?", Spandam ment destruction of the island itself (not refering to it's surface).

[eliseytook]

That was sooooo sad, but at the same time sooooo good.
And I'm going to need those tissues….^_^

So is this where the flashback ends?

Has physical, mental, spiritual need for the next chapter now

[Praxis]

There is the possiblity that the WG simply removed the island from the maps… either that or we get some DF fun where they destroy the island. Ice Age + cannons would shatter the island would it not?

[Darkariel]

I think Ohara became a desert island where no one can live on, and so the W.G. just stopped making maps with Ohara in them

And thus making people fear even more the power of Buster Call because they don't really know what happen to Ohara

[HTC]

@Praxis:

There is the possiblity that the WG simply removed the island from the maps…

That's a possibility!

@Praxis:

either that or we get some DF fun where they destroy the island. Ice Age + cannons would shatter the island would it not?

Something other then the Buster Call destroying the island? Possible, but not in the way you suggest. I think that earth can't be iced: only what's above it. Even if Crocodile was there and turned everything to sand, the island would still be there. Even if it were overtaken by lava, as i seem to recall someone mention it in this thread, it still would not be destroyed.
Other then some wierd DF power, Ancient weapon or, as i'm claiming, Buster Call, the only way i can think of destroying an island would be a massive vulcanic explosion, like the one that hit Krakatoa: see link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakatoa

[Ubiq]

@HTC:

Other then some wierd DF power, Ancient weapon or, as i'm claiming, Buster Call, the only way i can think of destroying an island would be a massive vulcanic explosion, like the one that hit Krakatoa.

I'm going to stick with the statement by Spandam as being hyperbole; if the Navy actually possesses a weapon capable of physically destroying an island, then there's no reason for them to not have used it on the pirates, especially if it's deemed in the best interests of the World Government to do so.

What we saw in the previous chapter is that the Navy is perfectly capable of destroying an island by means mundane enough that individual pirates like Mihawk, Donquixote, and Crocodile as well as large enough pirate groups like the Krieg Armada could pose a reasonable threat to a Buster Call task force, especially seeing as how several of the Navy's strongest fighters would not be accompanying it.

[joekido the Second]

In Spandam's mind, he thinks the BC would just BLOW up the island in 1 second. Yet in reality, it took 50 cannons to sent the whole island in flames and it took 15 mintues for Ohara to burn completly. Ineeded, Spandam is hyperbole. Blind by his power-greediness. Prehaps Robin will tell him the truth. The BC is olny inescapebel olny when it catchs you off-guard, to survive it you must be aware of it.

That was why Robin is trying to save her friends, she thought herself that the BC is unbeatible, she does not want her friends to fight it due to her experiance with it.

Robin may wanted to face it herself.

[mugiwara]

Well that was an amazing chapter. Oda really packed damn near everything in that one.

I was really hoping for some serious Marine ass kicking, 'D' style, and Oda did not disapoint. I especialy like how Saulo dies with the big grin on his face. That was great.

Akainu is such a bastard, how'd that skumbag ever get promoted? I'm glad Oda has at least introduced him here, even if we didn't actually see his face.

I wonder what ever happened to Spandine. His CP9 seemed liked a bunch of losers so I wouldn't be too surprised if they just died like losers.

And of course that final scene with Ohara burning as the backdrop was horribly beautiful. Ah, what a great chapter.

Now that the climax of this flashback has passed, I can't see Oda dragging it out. I'm guessing he'll give us a half a chapter of Robin's life since and return us to the action.

[Demon Rin]

before I even Started Reading I had the Kleenex Ready, and I needed them.
Robin's Past is so sad…
Anyway, Great Chapter, and I can't wait for the Mugiwara VS CP9 we'll most likely see in the Next chapter! It looked pretty certain that the Flashback was over

[gerbilbob]

could ohara fall apart cause the big tree is destroyed and the roots too that holds the island together.

Tree roots holds earth, so a big tree's roots a island?

[FireFistAce 0]

Something is seriously not right about the D's dying… do the D's even really die?

Lesee, so far, Luffy has been:

1. Impaled
2. Dehydrated
3. Exploded
4. Drowned (No, drowning does not kill you, contrary to popular belief. The actual meaning of drowning is to have your lungs completely filled with water. You can actually survive drowning)
5. Digested
6. Frozen
7. Hemmorhaged
8. Crushed

A good question: Where is Roger and Saul's grave? I can see Saul's being at the bottom of the ocean, but Roger had a public execution in front of thousands of people. I don't think they'd just dump his body into the sea. If I was a Marine Officer and wanted to make a good impression not to become a pirate, I'd take Roger's body and put it on public display, even shrink his head and wear it as a charm.

Somehow, I don't think the D's "Die"...

[Ivotas]

@HTC:

According to Blueno, on chapter 374, page 17, that's all the Buster Call is but, in chapter 391, page 9, when Spandam says: "It's the power that obliterated your home town Nico Robin!!! The word "Ohara" … dissapeared from the following year's map, didn't it ...?", that makes believe that there's much more to the Buster Call. Unless i miss interpreted (spelling??), with "The word "Ohara" ... dissapeared from the following year's map, didn't it …?", Spandam ment destruction of the island itself (not refering to it's surface).

Precicely it disappeared from the maps not from the face of this world. There is a difference in that. The WG considers Ohara as a demons land, burns the entire island and everyone within it down because of the bad reputation. Therefore Ohara disappears from the public notice by not putting it on any map anymore.

Plus, if you look at it logically, we already saw everything that Robin fears about the Buster Call. Everybody she loved and knew felt victim to it. Clover and the archeologists are dead, her mother is dead, Saul is dead, even everyone else she knew (even if she hated them) are dead and the entire island burns down. That is exactly what was about what pain the Buster Call caused for Robin and with this chapter all we saw all of this.

If tthe flashback would end right here all the promises about the pain it caused Robin would have been kept. That is what she fears about the Buster Call. And I think this is far more then enough.

[Daz]

@gerbilbob:

could ohara fall apart cause the big tree is destroyed and the roots too that holds the island together.

Tree roots holds earth, so a big tree's roots a island?

I really like this idea. I too am a supporter of the "Ohara did disappear" front, but like Ubiq has pointed out, the marines seem to lack neccesary firepower.

I'm going to sum up my thoughts from the Buster call thread, on why I think it makes no sense to edit the maps, for the sake of keeping Ohara forbidden:

• What forbidden things would there be left? Both the Scholars and their research is flammable. The only thing I think could survive is the Poneglyph, and even though only one person in OP can read it, I'd take it along were I the marines.
• Ohara was a well devolped island, and we can assume it had trades going with many other islands. Editing all the new maps does not erase the fact that hundreds already exist, showing the route to Ohara. And while OP Cartigraphy is by no means fully developed, this is West Blue, not the Grand line; Making maps and trades is a lot easier.

[Ivotas]

@The:

• What forbidden things would there be left? Both the Scholars and their research is flammable. The only thing I think could survive is the Poneglyph, and even though only one person in OP can read it, I'd take it along were I the marines.

Well the battleships should be strong enough to transport the Poneglyph. Taking it along with them would make sense because back then Nico Robin earned her bounty because she can read those things. Which means they know that she is alive and can read the thing. Therefore it would be better to take the stone away to not let her read it.

However there´s the possibility that the stone is burried under the large tree and that they thought that there´s no chance anybody will ever find it. So they don´t bother to search for it. Both are fair options if the island still exists.

• Ohara was a well devolped island, and we can assume it had trades going with many other islands. Editing all the new maps does not erase the fact that hundreds already exist, showing the route to Ohara. And while OP Cartigraphy is by no means fully developed, this is West Blue, not the Grand line; Making maps and trades is a lot easier.

Well I think that after 20 years there shouldn´t be many maps around that have Ohara on them. You have to think about it that the WG wants to state an example here so they could use some propaganda to promote a new world without demonic countries. And with it there come the new maps that don´t have demonic countries on them.

Plus, maps get updated and old ones get passed down pretty fast. Just try to find a world map of our real world that still has the Soviet Union or Yugoslavia on it. You won´t find many. Those who still have them probably didn´t get an updated one because of nostalgic feelings towards the "good old times" (I know such guys so it´s not a whack theory).

And when you find people with such maps they won´t be considered as demons that share anti government thoughts so they can keep those maps if they like. But the majority has updated maps in the real world.

So to get back to the One Piece world. If people would have such maps because they share sympathies or whatever with Ohara, they would be in danger to be considered as demons themselves. So in order to not fall victim to the wrath of the WG better go with the new maps.

This sounds a bit silly but this is how propaganda works. World War II Germany is the perfect example for that. When people had to abandon lots of trivial stuff (as books for example) to not be considered as enemy of the state.

[Daz]

@Ivotas:

Well the battleships should be strong enough to transport the Poneglyph. Taking it along with them would make sense because back then Nico Robin earned her bounty because she can read those things. Which means they know that she is alive and can read the thing. Therefore it would be better to take the stone away to not let her read it.

However there´s the possibility that the stone is burried under the large tree and that they thought that there´s no chance anybody will ever find it. So they don´t bother to search for it. Both are fair options if the island still exists.

Wouldn't the tree falling make the Glyph more exposed? To me it looks like it falls over to the side, and like gerbilbob said, it could have pulled up it's roots. Even if the tree somehow collapsed "on the spot", the poor things on fire. And even though it's a very big tree it's hollow, and shouldn't take too long to burn.

Well I think that after 20 years there shouldn´t be many maps around that have Ohara on them. You have to think about it that the WG wants to state an example here so they could use some propaganda to promote a new world without demonic countries. And with it there come the new maps that don´t have demonic countries on them.

Plus, maps get updated and old ones get passed down pretty fast. Just try to find a world map of our real world that still has the Sovjet Union or Yugoslavia on it. You won´t find many. Those who still have them probably didn´t get an updated one because of nostalgic feelings towards the "good old times" (I know such guys so it´s not a whack theory).

My schools still have had lots of those:glare:
But anyway, there's a difference. The land that was USSR was still present on the maps, it was just called Estonia, Russia etc. now. Ohara was removed, with nothing to replace it.

And when you find people with such maps they won´t be considered as demons that share anti government thoughts so they can keep those maps if they like. But the majority has updated maps in the real world.

So to get back to the One Piece world. If people would have such maps because they share sympathies or whatever with Ohara, they would be in danger to be considered as demons themselves. So in order to not fall victim to the wrath of the WG better go with the new maps.

This sounds a bit silly but this is how propaganda works. World War II Germany is the perfect example for that. When people had to abandon lots of trivial stuff (as books for example) to not be considered as enemy of the state.

I get your point about propaganda, and while it certainly would discourage looking for Oharara, it can't be that the entire world wouldn't do it. Pirates and pillagers, who're already criminals, could seek the island looking for leftovers from the attack…But anyway, I jsut can't see the government rounding up every Ohara-map in the world.

[Zeefer]

This post is deleted!

[MasterDee]

@Ivotas:

This is actually exactly the reason why Spandain has zero chance to be promoted to such a position. In terms to protect the Gorousei, they need the best military officers. Spandain sucks as that, because his qualities are in sleazy investigation. That´s why he is a government agent. In the Marine, they need people with the qualities of a soldier. And the Three Admirals are labeled as the "Strongest Powers of the World Government". If the Gorousei would put in such a weakling as Spandain in such a position it would be as if they are shooting themselves in their own legs, because that dude ain´t got what it takes to fill in that role.

But anyways, that won´t happen. Oda already established that the OP government and military works just as in the real world. A government agent can´t be promoted to a military high military position if he never was a high ranked soldier before.

I wouldn't say the chances are zero. Oda might just want to surprise us with this twist. As for Spandain not being strong or fit enough to be an Admiral, whose to say he hasn't gained some tremendous power since the Ohara incident (it's been 20 years since then)? After the Ohara incident, I could see Spandain being rewarded with a devil fruit (similar to how Kaku and Kalifa were rewarded with devil fruits), which might have granted him tremendous power - perhaps the power of light (offering one explaination for his moniker "Yellow Monkey"), which would make him uber-god like. As for him not having the qualities to be an admiral - Spandain was the director of the CP9. As I seem to recall from one of General Wesley Clarke's presidential debate speeches, being a general (or admiral) is really no different than being an administrator of some large organization, as far as day to day administrative activities go. The only thing Spandain might need to brush up on is his military war strategy.

As for the likelyhood of Spandain actually being appointed an Admiral, I could see how the Five Elders might have seen the need for this. To fight pirates in the new pirate age the Five Elders might have thought it necessary to better integrate the navy with the intelligence agencies, similar to how Dubya Bush is trying to better integrate the FBI, CIA and Pentagon to better fight "terror." What better way to achieve that integration than to appoint the director of CP9 (or former director?) as an Admiral? If such an appointment did occur, I could see how this might have created friction within the navy organization, which would explain why Aokiji appeared so disinterested in the day to day activities of the military when we were first introduced to him.

Finally, there has to be a reason why Kizeru wasn't introduced during Robin's flashback, while Aikinu was the only other future admiral that was (though I won't discount this from happening since we really don't know if Robin's flashback is really over or close to being over). As some in the thread have suggested, this may be due to the fact that Kizeru is the only truly good/pure admiral and was never involved in the Ohara incident. The other possibility is that Kizeru was involved in the incident and is indeed Spandain. As far as color associations with human emotions go, this would explain why the admirals are named as they are. Blue represents calm, tranquility, truth, order and loyalty which sort of descrbes Aokiji (IMO Aokiji could be described as the calm guy, completely loyal to the navy, who is seeking the truth, that is what true justice really is). Red represents anger, bloodlust, rage, revenge, love, strength and violence (Aikinu might be angry or languishing over a past incident, perhaps involving a loved one, which is what's driving him towards his brand of ultimate cold justice). And finally, Yellow represents cowardice, dishonesty, betrayal, jealousy, covetousness and deceit, which describes Spandain to a tee.

edit: BTW, I got these color representations for human moods/emotions from this page, http://iit.bloomu.edu/vthc/Design/psychology.htm , which is a page on graphic design - something Oda, being a manga artist, would most likely be familiar with.

[Ivotas]

@The:

Wouldn't the tree falling make the Glyph more exposed? To me it looks like it falls over to the side, and like gerbilbob said, it could have pulled up it's roots. Even if the tree somehow collapsed "on the spot", the poor things on fire. And even though it's a very big tree it's hollow, and shouldn't take too long to burn.

That would more be the case if there wouldn´t be any fire and the tree would falls over the side by itself. But with fire and ashes there´s no telling that it would definitely be exposed. It´s just one possibility.

My schools still have had lots of those:glare:

Well yeah, maybe they try to keep the idea of the "Red Threat" alive.

But anyway, there's a difference. The land that was USSR was still present on the maps, it was just called Estonia, Russia etc. now.

That is not the point. The point is that these things get updated. And in fact the country Soviet Union is removed from the maps just as it is from the face of this world. Dare to go to Estonians and tell them that they are Soviets.

Ohara was removed, with nothing to replace it.

Who ever said that nothing replaced it? All we know is that Ohara is removed. Maybe it is labeled as some random rock, curses land or Nanimonai II. With Oda we always have to be careful as to what he exactly says. The Aokiji thing with "I let her get away from me once" is the perfect proof to that.

I get your point about propaganda, and while it certainly would discourage looking for Oharara, it can't be that the entire world wouldn't do it. Pirates and pillagers, who're already criminals, could seek the island looking for leftovers from the attack…

Pirates and other criminals are always exceptions. If they would be obedient to governments views then they would become criminals in the first place so such people are never a good example for these things.

But anyway, I jsut can't see the government rounding up every Ohara-map in the world.

I don´t that people all over the world have Ohara maps at home. If anything they would have world maps or maps or their Blue´s or their home country. And if such things get changed everything happens automatically.

The people of the world have no idea what went on at Ohara anyways. If they would have, then Robin wouldn´t have such a bad reputation. Just look at Iceburg, he wasn´t there and yet he talks about Demons of Ohara, which got Robin freaked out. If such hatred towards the Demons gets planted good and grows well then nobody would like to own a map where this demonic country remains on.

I just have to use Nazi Germany as an example again. Years before the World War even started the Nazi propaganda was going well and lots of people were boykotting products from jewish citizens. This was all due to propaganda. Those who didn´t go along with that were sooner or later made enemies of the state aswell and had to escape in exile.

With the OP world there isn´t any exile however because we have a World Government there. Don´t go along and you´re already a criminal.

[Keroro]

What do you mean by don't go along?