@Holy:
I finished book one.
HOLY SHIT THAT ENDING
AHAHAHA HOLY SHIT YEAH AHAHA FUCK YEAH
FUCK YEAH THAT ENDING
! Presumably reptilian dragons drinking milk.
@Holy:
I finished book one.
HOLY SHIT THAT ENDING
AHAHAHA HOLY SHIT YEAH AHAHA FUCK YEAH
FUCK YEAH THAT ENDING
! Presumably reptilian dragons drinking milk.
[hide]
The Hound only gets more and more awesome, I feel sorry for Jon again (although it doesn't look like he'll be executed or anything just yet) and I hope someone buggers Walder Frey with a pike.[/hide]
400 more pages to go.
! How was that wedding?
I seriously didn't expect living dragons…
! How was that wedding?
[hide]It was to die for.[/hide]
So yeah, I thought about getting a Sandor avvie for Dragon's release (either for the first or second half of July, whichever works), so I looked him up on Google image.
…....Is this seriously him?
[hide]
What kind of burn mark is that?
Sure, his ear's gone and that's accurate, but what about the stuff with his mouth being effected and all that?[/hide]
Maybe I'll just get one of him with his helmet down.
EDIT: On second thought, it doesn't look all that bad. I guess it's because I had a MUCH more different picture of him. Like, I imagined him as a medieval Two Face.
Well, Sandor's facial injuries are very extreme, seared down to the bone in some places. I imagine that would be too expensive and/or time-consuming to recreate for the purposes of this show, or there may be some other production-related reason for excluding it that we're not aware of.
Personally, I'm not really crazy about Rory McCann as Sandor, but he's okay.
Because its hard to look at a horrific burn victim for extended periods of time?
It was pretty hard to look at Two-Face in Dark Knight, especially in the first couple of shots.
I personally didn't have a problem with it, but I can see how that might be too graphic for some. So, perhaps that is indeed it.
I'm contemplating reading the books now, but I'm already on the Name of the Wind which is taking me a while to finish and I'd rather not start another book.
The dragons were foreshadowed, but I'm getting curious as to how mystical the story gets…
Also, I thought Arya and Gendry had some nice chemistry on screen,
! shame it won't lead anywhere
Well, Sandor's facial injuries are very extreme, seared down to the bone in some places. I imagine that would be too expensive and/or time-consuming to recreate for the purposes of this show, or there may be some other production-related reason for excluding it that we're not aware of.
Personally, I'm not really crazy about Rory McCann as Sandor, but he's okay.
That's understandable.
@RobbyBevard:
Because its hard to look at a horrific burn victim for extended periods of time?
It was pretty hard to look at Two-Face in Dark Knight, especially in the first couple of shots.
Ha ha, I just imagined an audience full of Sansas watching the show now. Also, if Two-Face was the worst burn victims on screen can offer, then I think people would've gotten used to it. I did quickly enough. Besides, this is a story with rape, nudity and really unfair stuff going on. Taking away his extreme facial scars (if that was indeed the reason) isn't going to make the story that more pleasant. Besides, the point of it was that he's supposed to be ugly.
Then again, I must concede that very little can disturb me anymore in fiction. The most I've ever been frightened was when this girl face was just staring out of the dark in a video game. Everything else….eh.
One of my history teachers had like the whole second side of his face purple due to being born with it. It was a big grim to look at in honesty but at the end of the day I guess he was just a regular guy. Musta been hard for him to bear having that and adjust to it.
Just saw the finale. Very good! Can't wait for next season when Joffrey hopefully will get the shit beaten out of him!
April 17, 2011 (Series Premiere) Winter Is Coming 2.222 0.9
April 24, 2011 The Kingsroad 2.202 1
May 1, 2011 Lord Snow 2.438 1.1
May 8, 2011 Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things 2.451 1.1
May 15, 2011 The Wolf and the Lion 2.58 1.2
May 22, 2011 A Golden Crown 2.444 1.2
May 29, 2011 You Win or You Die 2.396 0.9
June 5, 2011 The Pointy End 2.715 1.2
June 12, 2011 Baelor 2.664 1.2
June 19, 2011 (Season One Finale) Fire and Blood
Full ratings list. The season finale's should be out later this evening. I like that they've stayed nice and steady the entire season. Makes me feel good about a potential 3rd season…
So apparently the big people are in my homecity of Belfast again, so they must be starting some form of work on Season 2 already.
http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/06/19/game-of-thrones-season-finale/
Interesting read. Especially about Season 2 maintaining production values.
EDIT: Filming starts Monday July 25th.
I've always thought it'd be a cool idea to go to the Paint Hall and see if I can get a glimpse of any of the actors.
I have watched this show couple of times and i think it was a good show to go with. My friend James is a big fan of this show. He never miss to watch this show.
Celebration time! The season finale hit 3 million viewers!
Nice! This bodes well for the future. Anyone know what they are doing about titles? Are they going to call the next season Game of Thrones still or are they going to use the titles of the subsequent books?
I imagine they'll keep the "Game of Thrones" title for marketing reasons. Heck, they even took out the "A" already.
They seasons might have subtitles though.
3 million viewers for a single episode of an HBO show is QUITE monumental.
The last episode of Dexter (last season) was 2.6… and that's an established show :o
What's significant is that, compared to last year's hit, Boardwalk Empire, which lost about 25% of its audience over the course of its first season, Game of Thrones has GAINED 40% on its pilot episode.
Across repeat showings and online services (HBO GO), each episode averages about 8 million viewers.
Pretty good stuff.
Yeah, HBO GO is a godsend. I don't have HBO, but my friend lets me use his account to watch it online. Plus with it being a major nerd hit and spread like the plague so quickly though forums such as this one, those figures are completely believable and I hope HBO gives them a much bigger budget to work with for Season 2.
Nice! This bodes well for the future. Anyone know what they are doing about titles? Are they going to call the next season Game of Thrones still or are they going to use the titles of the subsequent books?
Probably, like Robby said, they will keep Game of Thrones for marketing reasons. And anyway the title "Game of Thrones" applies to any of the books/seasons in the series
Another benefit of doing this series that they know they can count on (as opposed to their other new big hit Boardwalk Empire) is that as opposed to all the people watching BE that might be thinking, "that was pretty good but I'll just wait and keep watching future seasons when they air (or streaming)" a very significant percentage of the GoT audience is hardcore fans of the books who absolutely want the DVDs and are major word-of-mouth sources. Since HBO bases its model around subscriptions and DVDs rather than viewership #s that determine ad rates, they have to be licking their chops right now.
I still don't know (and it looks like the producers don't quite either) how they're going to tackle the vastly more action and spectacle-oriented material from the second and third books, but at the very least, it looks like the series has a very strong foundation to continue and should be one of HBO's major breadwinners for the next few years, which is awesome.
And I agree with Robby and 1000sunny, the title still works well for the series as a whole and changing the name will only add confusion and dilute the marketing of the name.
But in all in all, the first season pretty much surpassed all of my expectations and I couldn't be happier with how they managed it. Can't wait for next spring.
Also about the title:
Like Stephen says it works for the whole series because I can't imagine it ever stops having a political focus.
And the real core
The real foundation…
Is that "A Song of Ice & Fire" is a shitty shit name
The Tale of Dragons and Zombies
@Holy:
Is that "A Song of Ice & Fire" is a shitty shit name
I have a theory about why thats incredibly important and not and random and vague as it seems.
! John Snow, son of Ice. Daenerys Targaryen, daughter of Fire.
! I think they end up married by the end for love/political/war/survivor reasons and the entire overall thing is really and truly about them.
! Alternativley, there's also the suspicion about Jon's parentage…
! >! One theory claims that Eddard is not Jon's father at all, but that Snow is the offspring of his sister Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen… which would make Jon singlehandely both Ice AND Fire all by himself. And even more important and filled with royal blood than we already thought.
! I also think the various Starks are going to end up on all different sides of the conflict and will all be fighting each other by the end.
Plus it actually works its way into the story for a scene or twi in one of the later books. CoK I thing.
! Its an interesting theory especially because it was Rhaegar himself, I think, who was the first (and so far only) person to mention the series title in the books. Also, Martin has very subtly revealed little bits and pieces of the Rhaegar-Ned-Lysanna-Robert history every book and the fact that most of the story is a mystery makes me think that the theory is valid But another thing has been bothering me since the end of the first book, and I may be wrong on this, but didn't the witch who killed Danny's baby also say that she is now barren? And if that's the case then it doesn't matter who she marries because the Targaryen line will just end with her.
! Its an interesting theory especially because it was Rhaegar himself, I think, who was the first (and so far only) person to mention the series title in the books. Also, Martin has very subtly revealed little bits and pieces of the Rhaegar-Ned-Lysanna-Robert history every book and the fact that most of the story is a mystery makes me think that the theory is valid But another thing has been bothering me since the end of the first book, and I may be wrong on this, but didn't the witch who killed Danny's baby also say that she is now barren? And if that's the case then it doesn't matter who she marries because the Targaryen line will just end with her.
! Hmmm. Yeah, I picked up on the Jon and fire and ice and R+L=J business fairly quickly. I also get the feeling that the "ice and fire" might be something a little more metaphorical. I think it's just an all-encompassing theme. Let's take the two main families of the story (at first): The Starks of ice and the Targaryens of fire (you could argue a case for the Lannisters as well). Then there's the Others and the Wall versus Dany's dragons and Rh'llor and Dorne, etc.
! Also, the Dany business is cause for concern, but this may pave the way for democracy in the Seven Kingdoms??? Or something…
! I may be wrong on this, but didn't the witch who killed Danny's baby also say that she is now barren?
! Something like that. The prophecy was made in regards to Khal Drogo returning to Dany.
! “When will he be as he was?” Dany demanded.
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."
! It certainly sounds like it could be referring to infertility, but we don't really know–it could be symbolic in nature, or even untrue (although prophecies in fantasy do tend to hold weight). Hard to say right now, since Dany has not had any further sexual relations with men after Drogo died, so there's no way to, uh, test the theory. It's one of those "wait and see" moments for the series.
Regarding Jon & ect
! Yes, the theory that he's the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna has been around since book 1, and I agree that he is likely the product of that particular affair. Needless to say, the birth of Jon would explain the bed of blood Lyanna died in, and also the promise Lyanna had Ned make to her, as Robert would surely have tried to have Jon killed the minute he found out, leading to war between the Starks and the new King.
! Also:
! - The events as described by Jojen regarding the Tourney of Harrenhal leads me to speculate that Lyanna may have even went with Rhaegar willingly. I am almost convinced that she, not Howland, was the Knight of the Laughing Tree. I suspect this because Howland is a crannogman, not skilled in the ways of the horse or the lance, whereas Lyanna is known to be an expert rider and, like Arya, she was not afraid or unable to fight, laying into those squires previously with a tourney sword. We know that Rhaegar was sent by his father to unmask this mystery knight, and I think that when Rhaegar discovered who she was, he was charmed by her beauty and bravery, which led him to crown her the Queen of Love and Beauty and spark the inevitable shitstorm that followed. We have also heard from several sources that Rhaegar was an honorable and intelligent man, interested in books and music, not inclined toward violence unless necessary. So while anything is possible, I never felt as though Rhaegar was the monster Robert made him out to be. The thought of him kidnapping Lyanna and raping her repeatedly seems very off from how others remember him. We know that Lyanna was moved by his music during the tourney, and Rhaegar was well-known for his almost inhuman beauty. Is it not reasonable to speculate that she wanted him as well? I think it is more likely that Harrenhal sparked their relationship, and Lyanna went with him of her own accord at some point. We'll see.
! - I agree with Kitsu that ice and fire is a repeating theme throughout the books. Rhaegar and Lyanna. Sandor and Sansa. The wights and the dragons. Jon. R'hllor and the Great Other. Probably more I can't think of.
! - Regarding a possible Jon and Dany marriage, he would have to be relieved of his Oath first, which he swore in front of his gods. Hard to say where this could go, assuming it were necessary. On the one hand, he has already broken his vows with Ygritte (and almost broke them through desertion when Bran was injured). On the other hand, he has matured considerably and has far more responsibility on his shoulders now–he's not "just another brother," others are truly depending on him. So I'm not sure if he would agree to dissolve his vows, even if it were offered to him--unless there was no need for the Night's Watch anymore. It's a complicated idea that has sparked quite a few debates on other forums.
! Hope some of this is resolved in the next book. In particular, we really ought to find out the truth regarding R+L=J. It's either the most poorly-kept secret of the entire fandom, or a red herring of spectacular proportion. Either way, I'd like some resolution by now.
! Tyrion just lost his trial because of that idiot Viper and Snow is being harassed by Throne. But there is one worse thing….SOME FUCKING YOUTUBE COMMENTER GAVE AWAY THAT LITTLEFINGER WILL KILL LYSA! I HOPE HE DIES IN A SHITHOUSE!
@Cuddles:
! Tyrion just lost his trial because of that idiot Viper and Snow is being harassed by Throne. But there is one worse thing….SOME FUCKING YOUTUBE COMMENTER GAVE AWAY THAT LITTLEFINGER WILL KILL LYSA! I HOPE HE DIES IN A SHITHOUSE!
If you're going to get enraged by every time someone gives away a GoT spoiler, then you'd better hurry and read the rest of the books fast, so you can read book 5 the day it comes out. Its got huge media exposure now, and there's MUCH worse to be spoiled about yet.
That one is fairly minor and you see it coming way in advance compared to some other stuff.
And really? "I hope he dies in a shithouse?" For giving away a minor detail on a book thats been out for years? Its no "Snape kills Dumbledore" on premier night at the bookstore by a long shot.
I had several key events of A Storm of Swords spoiled for me when I read it back in high school, including both of the last-two-chapters-surprises (one of which is mentioned above) and the shocking deaths in the middle of the book. I am borderline overjoyed that I'll be going into A Dance with Dragons essentially spoiler-free.
And regarding theories:
! I think that Jon will end up as king, but I have no idea who his queen might be. Furthermore, I don't think think that "ice and fire" refers to Jon and Dany together, but rather to Jon's parentage itself being ice together with fire; I subscribe to that same L+R theory. I strongly doubt that Jon will marry Dany Targaryen, however, because she's probably barren and Jon will need of an heir. It could be that Jon marries Sansa, or Arianne, or Val, or ends up as Margaery Tyrell's fourth or fifth husband. Very little would surprise me.
@RobbyBevard:
If you're going to get enraged by every time someone gives away a GoT spoiler, then you'd better hurry and read the rest of the books fast, so you can read book 5 the day it comes out. Its got huge media exposure now, and there's MUCH worse to be spoiled about yet.
That one is fairly minor and you see it coming way in advance compared to some other stuff.
And really? "I hope he dies in a shithouse?" For giving away a minor detail on a book thats been out for years? Its no "Snape kills Dumbledore" on premier night at the bookstore by a long shot.
B-b-but, I wasn't ready and everything.
That and I've always hated Youtube spoilers, especially in anime shows or shows like this where future episodes hadn't been made. It's just so stupid.
Eh, but you're right. I still hate having that shit happen though, and thankfully I am almost up to AFFC.
I was actually spoiled about a LOT of things, but it still didn't change the impact too badly.
isn't prepared for the end of AFFC :(
Don't open unless you're atleast up to page.. 800 of Storm of Swords.
[hide] OH man when Arstan turned out to be Barristan I just about shit myself I was laughing and smiling so much. People must have thought I was crazy (reading in my car during lunch).
And Robb.. JESUS CHRIST. Out of all the deaths, Robb and Cat's were the only ones I was just like NO WAY WHAT IS HAPPENING. And the fact that they killed Grey Wind and sewed his head to the top of Robb's body. Fucking BRUTAL. No one is safe from anything in this series. And that's amazing - makes it that much more real and human. [/hide]
Yeah, thats pretty much the biggest spoiler in the series thus far, the end of the first book doesn't really compare. But… yeah. No one is safe.
And there are of course fates worse than death, too.
Don't open unless you're atleast up to page.. 800 of Storm of Swords.
[hide] OH man when Arstan turned out to be Barristan I just about shit myself I was laughing and smiling so much. People must have thought I was crazy (reading in my car during lunch).
And Robb.. JESUS CHRIST. Out of all the deaths, Robb and Cat's were the only ones I was just like NO WAY WHAT IS HAPPENING. And the fact that they killed Grey Wind and sewed his head to the top of Robb's body. Fucking BRUTAL. No one is safe from anything in this series. And that's amazing - makes it that much more real and human. [/hide]
! Barristan's appearance was awesome, but I felt somewhat sorry for Jorah.
The Red Wedding….you pretty much hit the nail in the head. And what really stinks is that there was no way Frey would have done all that if he didn't think he could get away with it, which means he probably will. As much as I was kind of annoyed by Cat, I almost hope she pulls a Lord Beric (or whoever that dead guy is) and come back to cut his fucking face off. Hell, just for laughs I'd like to see Robb's wolf headed corpse do that.
Sigh
In other news I'm slowly reaching the end. Stannis just saved the Wall (I fucking KNEW he wouldn't disappoint me. He's one of my favorites), but at the same time knowing that Sandor was (probably) getting an inglorious death is sobering…though not surprising, as much I loved his character.
On a bonus note, I heard that Bronn is still in the story, who I also love.
Aside from the fact that I forget some of the smaller details (like the Red Viper's history or what Kettleback had to do with anything), this series' plots and characters are just too hard to pull away from. Even if AFFC is to ASoIaF as Cars is to Pixar, I still know I'm in for a good time.
EDIT:
Remembers the Night Watch's vows about not having sex
Remembers Mormont being lenient
Remembers Stannis' rigidity and feelings about whores
Oh no....Stannis, if you have any sense, PLEASE don't do what I think you might do.
EDIT 2: And there's the fact that Jon is being paraded as a turncloak and that Melisandre's there. She'd blow that damn horn if her flames told her to do so. I just hope Davos (or someone else) can ultimately undermine her credibility based on the fact that she can't see everything, and may even see only what she wants to see.
btw this is all info from tv show and half of book one, so figure not spoilerific. only one possible close spoiler if only tv viewer, but its a total guess on my part and in the first book so shouldnt' be problem
kind of annoyed i found out episode 10 only is the season finale.
how long till next season?
and started reading the books, about halfway through the first book and wow is the series about as loyal as you can get. Only a few things that i did not catch in the series that i got in the books.
1. we hear supposedly Jon snows moms name. and did they say violet eyes? is she a dragon targayion as well? (don't answer, for spoilers)
2. snows last name is a generic last name for all bastards in teh north, while stone is for a different group and flower for the south.
3. it seems hinting at times that these dragon eggs are still alive, while in show it more deals with her just being immune to fire.
4. THE AGES. in the show robb and jon seem like they are 18 at least. and the others seem like 10-12, while in the books robb and snow are only 14 and the others like 7-9, and the youngest 3.
5. dire wolves and the house symbols. like after reading you can see they did good job, but its hard on just watching first to catch all the little things dealing with these. for one, i didn't know half the dogs names.
also i was confused on who was king and all that watching the first time. i thought this jon aryen was king and he died thus making robert king and when he became king he came to eddard to ask for him to be right hand. But jon aryen was the right hand and he was investigating JUST LIKE EDDARD was and when he found out that the kid is a not roberts he gets killed just like eddard.
so am i right on this. Robert Barathion was KING ever since they killed the mad king some 12 years ago or whatever it was.
Jon Aryen the hand of the king notices that jeoffrey has blonde hair and thus realizes he is a not roberts, but is killed
eddard stark becomes hand of king and does exact same investigation jon aryen did and was killed as well. Also eddard and jon aryen seem to have the same smart leadership and ideals. If only one of them was king and the other was hand, everything would have been peachy.
1. There are at least two women mentioned as possible mothers for Jon Snow, mentioned specifically in the text of the books. . One of them does have purple eyes (I won't say who it is, since you asked), but she is not a Targaryen.
! That violet-eyed beauty is Ashara Dayne, from Dorne, who Ned Stark was in love with and might have married if Catelyn's betrothal with Ned's older brother Brandon hadn't been halted by Brandon's death. Ashara Dayne committed suicide when Ned visited Dorne, for yet-unknown reasons relating either to Jon Snow or to Ned killing Ashara's brother Arthur in the battle of the Trident.
2. A bastard's last name depends on which of the seven kingdoms (+ Dorne) he or she is born in:
The North: Snow
West of The Reach: Hill
South of The Reach: Flowers
The Riverlands: Rivers
The Vale: Stone
The Iron Islands: Pyke
The Stormlands: Storm
Dorne: Sand
King's Landing: Waters
so am i right on this. Robert Barathion was KING ever since they killed the mad king some 12 years ago or whatever it was.
Jon Aryen the hand of the king notices that jeoffrey has blonde hair and thus realizes he is a not roberts, but is killed
eddard stark becomes hand of king and does exact same investigation jon aryen did and was killed as well. Also eddard and jon aryen seem to have the same smart leadership and ideals. If only one of them was king and the other was hand, everything would have been peachy.
That's basically correct, except IDK about that last line. Jon Arryn and Ned Stark were both wise and honorable, but NOT crafty or devious enough to survive the game of thrones. They were great as the lords of their respective lands, but ultimately died/failed when it came to dealing with the court intrigues in King's Landing.
I still think some of this stuff should be in spoiler tags…:
(A Feast For Crows spoilers)
! Is Davos dead? Oh man… maybe I need to keep reading but that would suck HARD if he is.
FUCK cuddles you just got me with that wall spoiler after the sigh
I figured it was just continuing with a response to me. ughghhhh
(A Feast For Crows spoilers)
! Is Davos dead? Oh man… maybe I need to keep reading but that would suck HARD if he is.
! They definitely mention that they have his head and hands on display somewhere. But you never know with this crowd… it could be a fake just like the fake Bran, Rickon, or Arya.
FUCK cuddles you just got me with that wall spoiler after the sigh
I figured it was just continuing with a response to me. ughghhhh
In my defense I put it under the spoiler tag. Still, sorry about that.:sad: If it helps, there's still tons more to look forward to. And even the one thing I was spoilered about myself had a lot of little details that made it really good.
(FYI, don't read this next part. Trust me on this.
@Cuddles:
! As much as I was kind of annoyed by Cat, I almost hope she pulls a Lord Beric (or whoever that dead guy is) and come back to cut his fucking face off.
! As much as I was kind of annoyed by Cat, I almost hope she pulls a Lord Beric (or whoever that dead guy is) and come back to cut his fucking face off.
! As much as I was kind of annoyed by Cat, I almost hope she pulls a Lord Beric (or whoever that dead guy is) and come back to cut his fucking face off.
! As much as I was kind of annoyed by Cat, I almost hope she pulls a Lord Beric (or whoever that dead guy is) and come back to cut his fucking face off.
[hide][/hide]
Also eddard and jon aryen seem to have the same smart leadership and ideals. If only one of them was king and the other was hand, everything would have been peachy.
Ned made a bad Hand, and would have likely made an even worse King. He had a problem making decisions that might be "morally" wrong, but are in the best interests of the realm. There's no better evidence of this than his reluctance to have Dany killed. Dany, who was a huge threat to Robert's crown. Robert might have regretted it afterward, but his decision was the right one at the time, one that could have prevented war if things had worked out differently.
Ned continuously let his honor cloud his judgment, and in the end, he paid dearly for it. A good man, but unsuited to dealing with political matters.
1. There are at least two women mentioned as possible mothers for Jon Snow, mentioned specifically in the text of the books. . One of them does have purple eyes (I won't say who it is, since you asked), but she is not a Targaryen.
! That violet-eyed beauty is Ashara Dayne, from Dorne, who Ned Stark was in love with and might have married if Catelyn's betrothal with Ned's older brother Brandon hadn't been halted by Brandon's death. Ashara Dayne committed suicide when Ned visited Dorne, for yet-unknown reasons relating either to Jon Snow or to Ned killing Ashara's brother Arthur in the battle of the Trident.
Speaking of which:
! I've always had a hard time believing Ashara would have killed herself if she had just given birth to Ned's son, or that Ned would dishonor the woman he loved by impregnating her while his wife sits at home (also pregnant). The timeline is weird. Jon is about 8 or 9 months older than Dany, which places his conception about 1 month before or after the Sack, and Ned wasn't in Starfall during that time. Possible, I suppose, but I think there's a much stronger case for R+L=J.
! I felt very bad for Ashara. She lost the man she loved, she had just lost her brother (killed by the man she loved, no less). And if you subscribe to R+L=J, then she would have believed that Ned had just fathered a bastard, assuming Ned didn't tell her the truth (and I don't see why he would, for both her and Jon's protection). That's a lot of pain to deal with all at once.
Regarding spoilers. I've been spoiled exactly once during the years I've followed the series. In ASOS, when
! Sansa marries Tyrion.
It sucked, because someone told me about it without explaining the context for it or anything. It happens, sadly.
On that note, I think the first book is fair game to be discussed openly, as it's been out for almost 15 years and the first season of the show has been concluded.
! I've always had a hard time believing Ashara would have killed herself if she had just given birth to Ned's son, or that Ned would dishonor the woman he loved by impregnating her while his wife sits at home (also pregnant). The timeline is weird. Jon is about 8 or 9 months older than Dany, which places his conception about 1 month before or after the Sack, and Ned wasn't in Starfall during that time. Possible, I suppose, but I think there's a much stronger case for R+L=J.
! I felt very bad for Ashara. She lost the man she loved, she had just lost her brother (killed by the man she loved, no less). And if you subscribe to R+L=J, then she would have believed that Ned had just fathered a bastard, assuming Ned didn't tell her the truth (and I don't see why he would, for both her and Jon's protection). That's a lot of pain to deal with all at once.
Yeah, I'm with you there; sounds about right. I wasn't exactly questioning the reasons why she may have committed suicide, just illustrating the situation a little bit. I do feel bad for her and Ned both. Ned's life seemed to be pretty good at the start of AGOT, but he was carrying a TON of baggage.
While I'm theorizing, I might as well talk about what's up with my two favorite characters.
! Tyrion is heading across the eastern sea, so my guess is that he either meets up with Illyrio in Pentos, Jorah in exile, Arya in Braavos, or Dany in Meereen. He could be a valuable ally to any of them, especially Dany. Queen Dany with knight Barristan, advisor Tyrion, and an army of slaves and dragons would be quite a team indeed. Enough to conquer Westeros?
! Bran is still with Jojen, Meera, and Coldhands, the latter of whom I think is some kind of half-transformed-into-an-Other Benjen Stark. Bran's learning how to be a warg, so he might seek out that Sixskins guy or some yet-unnamed group to learn the ropes. My best guess is that Bran eventually connects to the Watch and uses his warg powers for either Jon Snow or Stannis Baratheon. Also, I would 100% be in favor of Bran romancing him some Meera if it weren't for the extremely awkward age difference.
My stance on the spoiler issue is that, well, it's really not difficult to put things like
(A Game of Thrones spoilers)
! Ned's death and the whole dragons thing
behind a set of spoiler tags. Sure it's been out for 15 years, but there are still people discovering the series. But meh, I guess it doesn't matter too much… I just think moments like those should be left untainted for the most part.
@ Cuddles:
(A Storm of Swords spoiler)
! You made me lol when you made that prediction about Cat and Beric. XD I was about to ask if you were spoiling yourself… :P
Ned made a bad Hand, and would have likely made an even worse King. He had a problem making decisions that might be "morally" wrong, but are in the best interests of the realm. There's no better evidence of this than his reluctance to have Dany killed. Dany, who was a huge threat to Robert's crown. Robert might have regretted it afterward, but his decision was the right one at the time, one that could have prevented war if things had worked out differently.
Ned continuously let his honor cloud his judgment, and in the end, he paid dearly for it. A good man, but unsuited to dealing with political matters.
from what i took in the game of thrones tv show IF they did not send assassins after danny she would have been content just living her life as a dothraki and NEVER intend to invade. so his honorable idea of not killing her woudl have saved thousands, but instead insisting on killing her resulted in killing thousands (i assume, haven't gotten that far yet)
For anyone that wants some in depth discussion on Jon Snow's parentage, go here.
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/jon.html
There might be some minor spoilage in it, in that it uses quotes and references some things, but it pulls up a LOT of little lines and moments that convince me its the popular
! RHAEGAR TARGARYEN AND LYANNA STARKtheory. Its really really well researchered and has a lot of little points to it.
Nice article about GoT's Emmy chances:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/5-reasons-why-game-thrones-205208
Also reveals some positive numbers for GoT in general.
! Tyrion is heading across the eastern sea, so my guess is that he either meets up with Illyrio in Pentos, Jorah in exile, Arya in Braavos, or Dany in Meereen. He could be a valuable ally to any of them, especially Dany. Queen Dany with knight Barristan, advisor Tyrion, and an army of slaves and dragons would be quite a team indeed. Enough to conquer Westeros?
! Dany and Tyrion would make a hell of a team. I would be very interested to see her reaction to him, though, given her family's history with his father.
from what i took in the game of thrones tv show IF they did not send assassins after danny she would have been content just living her life as a dothraki and NEVER intend to invade.
Then the show has mislead you, because that is not how Dany felt at all.
(AGoT spoilers)
! She wanted to go home, and the Dothraki army was meant to be her ticket. Viserys promised Dany over and over that they would go back one day; going home has been her goal almost since the beginning of this series. The fourth Dany chapter in AGoT made clear that, while Dany was eager to march west, Drogo wasn't interested until the assassination attempt.
! Her discussion with Ser Jorah, just before the attack:
! > "My Princess. How may I serve you?""You must talk to my lord husband," Dany said. "Drogo says the stallion who mounts the world will have all the lands of the earth to rule, and no need to cross the poison water. He talks of leading his khalasar east after Rhaego is born, to plunder the lands around the Jade Sea."
The knight looked thoughtful. "The khal has never seen the Seven Kingdoms," he said. "They are nothing to him. If he thinks of them at all, no doubt he thinks of islands, a few small cities clinging to rocks in the manner of Lorath or Lys, surrounded by stormy seas. The riches of the east must seem a more tempting prospect."
"But he must ride west," Dany said, despairing. "Please, help me make him understand." She had never seen the Seven Kingdoms either, no more than Drogo, yet she felt as if she knew them from all the tales her brother had told her. Viserys has promised her a thousand times that he would take her back one day, but he was dead now and his promises had died with him.
"The Dothraki do things in their own time, for their own reasons," the knight answered. "Have patience, Princess. Do not make your brother's mistake. We will go home, I promise you."
! Hope that helps.
yea i guess it does, i'll get there sooner or later, but as i said the tv show made it seem that roughly around the exact time the assassination happened she seemed to have sor tof gave up on going HOME. but then in same sense after the assassination attempt when drogo wanted to go and conquoer them she seemed very happy.
but still the point stands. IF the assassination attempt didn't happen, it don't matter how much she wanted to still go home, drogo was not for it.