All in all it was a great chapter. Fisher Tiger really was a great man, he wanted to sign peace with humans, but the inner demons made him unable to do that. And this just in what, 4 chapters? With just this amount I felt really attached to him. Excellent, Oda, just excellent
Chapter 623: "The Pirate Fisher Tiger"
-
-
Excellent even if it was short, butā¦ Still short x)
Well, I think it's not finished yet, but still.. -
Even though I agree that TigerĀ“s battle could have been done better ( still, donĀ“t think it was that anti-climatic), I have to say that the main point was his death due to him not being able to let his hatred for humans goā¦
And I think that was conveyed very well! He was still badass, and he probably climbed the grandline and got to free the slaves because the security in Maijoa was lax, but hey, he did it!Now letĀ“s see what happens next!
-
We need another scanlation group or at least mangastream should get a new translator. All this confusion and headache was their fault, I knew Oda would never do such mistake.
-
Great chapter. After reading this i believe there will be a fishmen joining to Strawhat crew.
-
I don't know if anyone thouht this, but I think the people who initially tipped off the Marine HQ about the Sun Pirates going to Koala's home island are the same people who asked the Sun Pirates to take her there last chapter. They're the only ones that would've known. Afterwards, the Marine HQ got in contact with Koala's hometown and made a deal with them that as long as they overlooked Koala being a former slave, then the Marines could do whatver to the Sun Pirates.
Also, despite Macro ccrying at Koala leaving, he's even more despicable for continuing the slave business now that we (and he) knows that Fisher Tiger himself was a former slave.
It was a trap they set up. I think people are making the assumption that Koala's village are solely responsible for selling Tiger out when I don't see it that way. I figure that the people the Sun Pirates bought the eternal pose from probably alerted the Marines. The villagers may have been forced to do what they did in order to keep Koala from being recaptured.
Ah. Those both make sense. I thought it was the Fullshout Island people who called the Marines, so I was confused how they made it there in a minutes xD.
Thanks.
-
No. I don't know what happened at that point but I'd assume either he called his troops off and retreated or they clashed and he was defeated. I'm assuming he didn't take part in damaging Tiger (before Jimbei showed up) because there's no indication that he did, so his presence doesn't make Tiger's defeat any more believable. Don't you agree that if Oda meant for the scene to be read as Strawberry actively taking part in wounding Tiger badly and fighting him extensively, he did a terrible job of conveying it?
We're to assume he was shot from all directions and the Sun Pirates responded quickly, as best I can tell. So no, I don't believe Strawberry got his own hands dirty until after that scene. However, I think Tiger was still a ways from being done at that point.
You said he was faced with a horrible ambush and still escaped though. That's just a bit misleading when he wouldn't have escaped without Jimbei coming to the rescue. I mean, Strawberry hadn't even began to exert himself at that point yet and Tiger was horribly wounded. Obviously Tiger wasn't getting out alive on his own. I would compare it to saying that Luffy escaped EL all on his own, which would be untrue and misleading even if it's true that he did escape.
That's my whole point. Luffy couldn't have done it on his own, and neither could Tiger, Whitebeard, or anyone else. It's a very common theme within the story.
-
To the point where he could've gotten out on his own though? I doubt it, and you don't seem to think so either. Besides, he WAS still heavily injured, that was pretty obvious, and it was all from 50-something fodder with guns.
Well, sure. No one can accomplish the really big stuff all alone (kind of ironic to say that though considering who we're talking about, but w/e) but to me, by the way Oda has portrayed really strong people vs filler folks with guns before, it just didn't feel very believable for Tiger to be so gravely injured from that encounter when they neither took him off-guard (e.g. firing at him from hiding instead of announcing his crimes to him first and whatnot) and their leader didn't even take part in it.
I'm still sort of hoping that next chapter we'll have a Strawberry PoV, where he reminisces on the confrontation and it's revealed that Tiger just stood there and took the bullets at first. He could say something like "It seems that he was trying to prove something to usā¦" and seem genuinely thoughtful about it. Or something like that. That would be a lot more satisfying to me.
-
I guess I am the only one who enjoyed fodder actually being useful for once. Being surrounded with guns blazing finally ment something and to a big character to. Considering his all too human weaknesses and portrayal, I feel it's more impactful that Tiger was taken out by ordinary guns rather than magical straw berry grenades or light lazers.
-
Being surrounded with guns blazing finally ment something
That's just it, thoughā¦ it has almost never actually seemed like a serious threat to strong characters. Zoro back in Whiskey Peak knocked out 100 BW agents while barely breaking a sweat. That's why it felt so weird that apparently it suddenly was.
I very much agree that, in light of the other revelations, it feels appropriate for Tiger's death to not be in a blaze of glory fighting equally with an Admiral or some such, but... I think Oda went a little too easy on it. I mean, just look at this:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2484-16/one-piece/chapter-377.html
50 fodders being a lethal threat to a 200m+ guy just doesn't compute in my brain at this point of the series.
-
That's just it, thoughā¦ it has almost never actually seemed like a serious threat to strong characters. Zoro back in Whiskey Peak knocked out 100 BW agents while barely breaking a sweat. That's why it felt so weird that apparently it suddenly was.
I very much agree that, in light of the other revelations, it feels appropriate for Tiger's death to not be in a blaze of glory fighting equally with an Admiral or some such, but... I think Oda went a little too easy on it. I mean, just look at this:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2484-16/one-piece/chapter-377.html
50 fodders being a lethal threat to a 200m+ guy just doesn't compute in my brain at this point of the series.
Remember that Luffy is inmune to bullets.
-
That doesn't change the fact that Luffy beat up 1k fodders at their home court and was only mildly exhausted to show for it. I also don't remember any instance of Luffy even getting hit by bullets as he was doing it, so that argument doesn't really cut it either in my opinion. Bottom line is just, it simply doesn't feel believable for someone that strong to go down to what he went down to. Not after Oda has spent so many chapters establishing that the run-of-the-mill type fodder are simply that, fodder, even in huge quantities. If there was only SOME other element in play here, like that they suddenly started shooting while out of sight, or that Tiger took the hits willingly, or if it was made clear that Strawberry was pinning him down in combat so that he couldn't dodge them, that alone would make it far better.
-
That doesn't change the fact that Luffy beat up 1k fodders at their home court and was only mildly exhausted to show for it. I also don't remember any instance of Luffy even getting hit by bullets as he was doing it, so that argument doesn't really cut it either in my opinion. Bottom line is just, it simply doesn't feel believable for someone that strong to go down to what he went down to. Not after Oda has spent so many chapters establishing that the run-of-the-mill type fodder are simply that, fodder. Even in huge quantities.
Luffy is made of rubber, Tiger not. What part of this you don't understand?
-
Please don't skip over the point of my entire post if you're going to make smartass comments.
-
The only part of the chapter that was disappointing is that Fisher Tiger was defeated by fodders.
-
That doesn't change the fact that Luffy beat up 1k fodders at their home court and was only mildly exhausted to show for it. I also don't remember any instance of Luffy even getting hit by bullets as he was doing it, so that argument doesn't really cut it either in my opinion. Bottom line is just, it simply doesn't feel believable for someone that strong to go down to what he went down to. Not after Oda has spent so many chapters establishing that the run-of-the-mill type fodder are simply that, fodder, even in huge quantities. If there was only SOME other element in play here, like that they suddenly started shooting while out of sight, or that Tiger took the hits willingly, or if it was made clear that Strawberry was pinning him down in combat so that he couldn't dodge them, that alone would make it far better.
You're writing as if he died straight after the ambush of bullets. He took the bullets and STRAIGHT after took out some petty marine in badass fashion, would have made it as well if someone on his crew had the same blood type. You've gotta realize here that it wasn't the fodder that took him out, it was his own inability to love humans that eventually took him down.
-
I'm not writing like that. It WAS the fodder that injured him to a point where he died shortly afterwards. 50 fodder with guns. It shouldn't be so hard to understand why that seems strange and disappointing with the way Oda has portrayed the category of "fodder with guns" in this story.
-
I'm not writing like that. It WAS the fodder that injured him to a point where he died shortly afterwards. 50 fodder with guns. It shouldn't be so hard to understand why that seems strange and disappointing with the way Oda has portrayed the category of "fodder with guns" in this story.
I just explained exactly why it panned out the way it did, if you're too thick to understand that's fine just stop posting in this thread because its really annoying now.
-
You didn't say anything new or anything to dispute what I was saying, but thanks for nothing and more smartassery anyway. He took the bullets? Yeah, I could tell. That's where the problem lies to start with.
I was under the impression that this was the topic to discuss the newest chapter, if I'm wrong then mods should put an end to it soon enough. Until then I'll discuss the point as long as people are interested in doing so.
-
Awesome chapter. A pity Fisher Tiger died like that. I woulda liked to have seen him maybe fight 1 of the future Admirals Kizaru or Akainu just to show off his strength. Ah well.
I hope we'll see Koala again in the future. She'll be all grown up and probably pretty hot too
-
That doesn't change the fact that Luffy beat up 1k fodders at their home court and was only mildly exhausted to show for it. I also don't remember any instance of Luffy even getting hit by bullets as he was doing it, so that argument doesn't really cut it either in my opinion. Bottom line is just, it simply doesn't feel believable for someone that strong to go down to what he went down to. Not after Oda has spent so many chapters establishing that the run-of-the-mill type fodder are simply that, fodder, even in huge quantities. If there was only SOME other element in play here, like that they suddenly started shooting while out of sight, or that Tiger took the hits willingly, or if it was made clear that Strawberry was pinning him down in combat so that he couldn't dodge them, that alone would make it far better.
You don't see Luffy getting hit by bullet because Oda already show it on the train to Enies Lobby, and for the thousand time those bullet doesn't effect him since the beginning of the manga so why does Oda need to draw it.
-
That doesn't change the fact that Luffy beat up 1k fodders at their home court and was only mildly exhausted to show for it.
Luffy is immune to bullets.
I also don't remember any instance of Luffy even getting hit by bullets as he was doing it, so that argument doesn't really cut it either in my opinion.
It doesn't matter. Luffy is immune to bullets. Guns are the main weapons of fodder marinesā¦ and Luffy is immune to them.
Bottom line is just, it simply doesn't feel believable for someone that strong to go down to what he went down to. Not after Oda has spent so many chapters establishing that the run-of-the-mill type fodder are simply that, fodder, even in huge quantities.
They had guns. Which Tiger was not immune to.
If there was only SOME other element in play here, like that they suddenly started shooting while out of sight, or that Tiger took the hits willingly, or if it was made clear that Strawberry was pinning him down in combat so that he couldn't dodge them, that alone would make it far better.
They DID surprise him and surround him, away from his crew, on land where his fishman strength is lessened? And it was a crew meant specifically to take out the sun pirates, so they probably WEREN'T low tier fodder.
-
Lets keep in mind that Strawberry's platoon was sent there specifically with the intention of taking out the Pirates of Sun. Not to scout them. They most likely were not fodders.
Look at the scene of Tiger in his death bed.
The entire crew sustained bloody injuries, even the mighty Jinbe. I think those were actually elite marines. -
interesting comment from Sasaki's twitter thought I would repost
SASAKI_Hisashi SHONENJUMP SASAKI
Just finished the meeting with Oda-sensei and several members of Team #ONEPIECE. Another big project is underway.I agree the bullets hurt Tiger but did not kill him, his inability to accept Human blood is what killed him in the end
-
There's only one more thing I want to say in regards to this whole fodder beating Tiger thing.
The man was unarmed. He had 3 swords, a pistol, and a rifle in Mariejoa.
-
It wasn't the planes that got him. It was beauty that killed the beast.
-
See, Coruscation? It's not that hard to use good reasoning.
Fisher Tiger even survived the barrage of bullets, and he only died because he wanted.
-
just wishful thinking on my part but I hope Koala is brought back into the story line, as a human/fishman ambassador perhaps I dunno, maybe she joined up with Dragon and his revolutionaries
-
So do we think that if Sanji had been in Luffy's position at Enies Lobby, he would've died a horrible death pretty much instantly? What about Jimbei as we know him from the present timeline? Luffy being immune to bullets is all that allowed him to prevail? No, it isn't convincing to me. From the manga so far I would never have thought that 50 fodders with guns can kill someone as strong as Tiger was, even on land. Them not being fodder would be fine, if they weren't drawn as typical fodder, going bulgy-eyed when he made a move, and we know for sure that the strongest individual there was a Rear Admiral. I get that he was at a disadvantage, but it still wasn't convincing. Zoro wiped out 100 bounty hunters, many with guns, at Whiskey Peak with nigh a scratch on him to show for it.
Nekketsu, mind contributing something more than smartass comments?
-
That doesn't change the fact that Luffy beat up 1k fodders at their home court and was only mildly exhausted to show for it.
Luffy was high on "SAVE ROBIN" Fisher was shocked on Human Betrayal
I also don't remember any instance of Luffy even getting hit by bullets as he was doing it, so that argument doesn't really cut it either in my opinion.
Yes, of course no one in Impel Down shot it's weapon against the invader. 2000 men didn't shot a single bullet that day.
Bottom line is just, it simply doesn't feel believable for someone that strong to go down to what he went down to. Not after Oda has spent so many chapters establishing that the run-of-the-mill type fodder are simply that, fodder, even in huge quantities.
Who exactly took down this ammount of foder, head on (no Zoro in Wiskey peak where he used the terrain to do most of it), without devil fruit powers (Logias and Ruber Luffy), haki (Shanks, Luffy), or being a fishman in water (Arlong's crew early, Jimbe vs the marine ship)? Not counting Gigants nor the STRONGEST MAN ALIVE.
The bridge of hesitation, where they could not shot long range in order to not kill robin
If there was only SOME other element in play here, like that they suddenly started shooting while out of sight, or that Tiger took the hits willingly, or if it was made clear that Strawberry was pinning him down in combat so that he couldn't dodge them, that alone would make it far better.
And this brings us to the pacing problems that we have been seing since going under the sea.
-
Those fodders didn't directly killed him. FT died because of losing too much blood, which is resonable because his body was not as strong as Jinbe or Arlong. Get it?
-
So do we think that if Sanji had been in Luffy's position at Enies Lobby, he would've died a horrible death pretty much instantly?
yes probably or at least badly wounded Luffy has advantages Sanji does not.
What about Jimbei as we know him from the present timeline?
Jinbei as well probably would have been hurt but possibly survived it is an unknown still
Luffy being immune to bullets is all that allowed him to prevail? No, it isn't convincing to me. From the manga so far I would never have thought that 50 fodders with guns can kill someone as strong as Tiger was, even on land.
again they did not kill him read the chapter again he was hurt but would have survived if he just could accept the blood
Them not being fodder would be fine, if they weren't drawn as typical fodder, going bulgy-eyed when he made a move, and we know for sure that the strongest individual there was a Rear Admiral. I get that he was at a disadvantage, but it still wasn't convincing.
you seem determined not to be convinced despite the evidence oh well
-
This post is deleted!
-
They were not fodders.
End of story
-
I don't know if anyone thouht this, but I think the people who initially tipped off the Marine HQ about the Sun Pirates going to Koala's home island are the same people who asked the Sun Pirates to take her there last chapter. They're the only ones that would've known. Afterwards, the Marine HQ got in contact with Koala's hometown and made a deal with them that as long as they overlooked Koala being a former slave, then the Marines could do whatver to the Sun Pirates.
Also, despite Macro ccrying at Koala leaving, he's even more despicable for continuing the slave business now that we (and he) knows that Fisher Tiger himself was a former slave.
That's what i was thinking the whoel chapter. Because imo there was no way the marines could of got to them so fast and have an ambush plan ready since the last island they went to
-
Decent chapter.
Have we learned who assassinated Otohime yet? Feels like Arlong could be the perfect candidate to be tricked by Kizaru into doing exactly that.
-
Throughout this entire flashback, Arlong hasn't mentioned money even once, I think. I suppose something is bound to happen over the next couple chapters that develops his attitude about how money can solve any problem.
-
If Tiger didnt climb the red line, but did go back to FI to consult the kind before going back to free the slaves. how did he get back there?
-
I don't think they needed an ambush plan, though. Since Kizaru himself would be more than enough (if he already ate the Pika Pika no Mi) to kick the fish crap out of FT.
-
If Tiger didnt climb the red line, but did go back to FI to consult the kind before going back to free the slaves. how did he get back there?
Once again, Tiger DID climb the Red Line.
-
Well another point comes up as to why the sun pirates instead of keeping their mouth shut about how tiger died, made up a lie to make the humans look worse. Saying that no one would give Tiger any blood when he was wounded. That sure gave hammond a distorted mentality about humans/fishmen
-
Fisher Tiger to me seems like the kind of person who would realize beforehand that attacking a battalion of marines with his crew would probably be very bad for the reputation of Fishmen. Keep in mind the tension between fishmen and humans are at an all time high during this flashback. Fisher "we never kill anybody" Tiger realized that there was no way out of this predicament without seriously harming and killing the surrounding marines and by doing so he also realized that it would make humans more angry/fearful towards fishmen when they wake up in the morning and read 'Sun Pirates kill x amount of Marines in bloody shootout" in their paper. In my opinion I think a 200+ million dollar bounty could have handled even a squad of hand picked marines if it meant life or death, which leads me to believe that Tiger basically allowed himself to be captured/shot (a lot) for the sake of not worsening the reputation and views on fishmen.
-
People stop with these stupid excuses that it wasn't the guns that killed FT or that they were elite marines.
THEY CLEARLY WEREN'T and as much as I love OP, if this isn't explained it is a plot hole
Stop overlooking what he did. HE FREED SLAVES FROM MARIEJOA!!! There MUST BE ELITE MARINES THERE! This is the freaking celestial dragons we're talking about. Stop trying to cover it up. It makes no sense how Tiger did it. Now maybe if he had help or the guards there did not have weapons than perhapsā¦....... but still come on Oda its not like you to do this. Maybe FT had loads of armor on him??? A simple add on like that would seal this whole plot hole
-
I wonder if Fisher Tiger has any form relationship with Dragon, they both seem to be a respected leader of their own rights. After this chapter, we can see that Arlong and Jimbei took separate paths that makes up Tiger. Arlong being the heart of FT and Jimbei is the brain. I'm looking forward to Strawhats encounter with Koala and how she turns out to be. Never thought that Koala would join the crew but I'm starting to have second thoughts.
-
Anyone think that Fisher Tiger was backstabbed by this Aladdin guy?
Well no proofs yet, but I know anyone would agree that Alddin has much more important roles than just being the only merman on the sun pirate's ship.
-
People stop with these stupid excuses that it wasn't the guns that killed FT or that they were elite marines.
THEY CLEARLY WEREN'T and as much as I love OP, if this isn't explained it is a plot hole
Stop overlooking what he did. HE FREED SLAVES FROM MARIEJOA!!! There MUST BE ELITE MARINES THERE! This is the freaking celestial dragons we're talking about. Stop trying to cover it up. It makes no sense how Tiger did it. Now maybe if he had help or the guards there did not have weapons than perhapsā¦....... but still come on Oda its not like you to do this. Maybe FT had loads of armor on him??? A simple add on like that would seal this whole plot hole
It was a freaking ambush with alot of marines and just FT..what could he possibly have done? That he assaulted MarieJoa means nothing, since we don't know how things went thereā¦maybe there was almost no-one in the part he went in, you don't know that.
In an ambush, everything happens real fast. Plus, he was a fishman on land. It is no surpirise and I for one am GLAD a major character didn't need some Ć¼ber-DF user to finish him.
-
It was a freaking ambush with alot of marines and just FT..what could he possibly have done? That he assaulted MarieJoa means nothing, since we don't know how things went thereā¦maybe there was almost no-one in the part he went in, you don't know that.
In an ambush, everything happens real fast. Plus, he was a fishman on land. It is no surpirise and I for one am GLAD a major character didn't need some Ć¼ber-DF user to finish him.
Zoro and Sanji were ambushed at enies lobby. You think FT is weaker than them? Listen its a plot hole, we need explanation.
Now i love the idea of Dragon assisting Tiger, that would be perfect
-
People stop with these stupid excuses that it wasn't the guns that killed FT or that they were elite marines.
THEY CLEARLY WEREN'T and as much as I love OP, if this isn't explained it is a plot hole
Stop overlooking what he did. HE FREED SLAVES FROM MARIEJOA!!! There MUST BE ELITE MARINES THERE! This is the freaking celestial dragons we're talking about. Stop trying to cover it up. It makes no sense how Tiger did it. Now maybe if he had help or the guards there did not have weapons than perhapsā¦....... but still come on Oda its not like you to do this. Maybe FT had loads of armor on him??? A simple add on like that would seal this whole plot hole
I have no idea what you're talking about.
We're talking about marines led by Strawberry sent to apprehend the Fishmen pirates.
Not those guaading the holy land. -
We should check what a Plot-Hole is. FT being defeated by a squad of marines ain't no damn plothole. Whitebeard got killed by guns too, remember?
And just to add some info to this discusion: remember when Luffy entered the Marineford war and charged alone into battlefield? 2 of this so called "fodder marines" injured him. Luffy himself admitted that everyone was damn strong on that battlefield.
I think the marine that FT punches away is a coated marine, we know these are stronger than non-coated ones. There are a bunch of stronger-than-usual marines in there.
Also, just look at Jimbe, Arlong, Aladdin and co. after rescuing FT. They're really injured, ALL of them. It wasn't an easy battle defeating those fodder marines, and maybe they didn't even defeat them, just escaped.
One more? As Urouge said, FT probably uses weapons when engaged in sarious combat. He looks to me like a brute, pure physical strength, but not much finesse. Probably that's why he uses weapons in combat, weapons that he didn't have this time with him.
And last but not least, just remember last chapter. He defeated another Rear Admiral with one hit. FT ain't no joke. He was caught off guard, without weapons, by a group of probably pretty strong marines, and he could've survived.
I'm not saying this was the BEST way to kill FT; hell, I would've killed for a Kizaru vs FT, or even Strawberry vs FT, a straight-on fight. But that wasn't the intention of FT character, to show how "badass" he is, but to show his inner struggle with trying to love humans but ultimately fall to his own hate for them. I think it's a far, FAAAAR more important issue right here, and for me, it was masterfuly shown.
-
FT died from blood loss, not gun fire, you guys seem to be missing the point of this chapter.
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/28684017/15Sanji would have also died from blood loss a couple of chapters ago, despite the comedic relief.
Zoro would have also died many times from blood loss if it wasn't for Chopper.Besides FT was nowhere near as strong as Luffy, even pre-time skip.