Aokiji is the one who makes the water below him freeze. He's gotta do it right when he touches the water, so he's gotta be pretty good. Aokiji could be worse than buggy really. There is no leeway either, Buggy can fly over water and is immune to slashes, but he's not that strong.
General Devil Fruit Discussion
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Some Devil Fruits do have advantages over others but that does not make them the strongest Devil Fruit there is . Like i said before Luffy's fruit is said to be pretty weak but Luffy trained with it and made different plans on how to use it. And i am pretty sure we can all agree that Luffy is powerful.
Blackbread does have a weakness by the way. Since the darkness he controls has its own gravity, attacks are pulled in towards him making him somewhat of an easy target to hit.
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The main point I am trying to get across is that with the right training and planning a "weak" Devil Fruit can become rather powerful.
I've never disputed this.
And if i go by what you say then Buggy's fruit makes him immune to swords, which would make Mr. 1 rather weak against Buggy. So that would mean by what you say Buggy is stronger then Mr 1 since the Bara Bara no Mi is more "superior" to the Supa Supa no mi.
What? Their fruits aren't really comparable at all because they're so different. A head-to-head fight between the two is a ridiculously tiny aspect of their strengths and weaknesses. Saying that a fruit user is weak against one guy in the entire world is hardly something to bother with.
Is Buggy really stronger then Mr. 1?
Of course not, but that
has nothing to do withisn't because of their fruits. -
Off topic: Urouge, I just want to let u know that when I saw your picture I lol'd so hard my head hit the wall really hard. Now it hurts like hell and its ur fault because ur picture so damn funny!
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Logias are rare AND superior. They have weaknesses, yes, i.e. Crocodile could not be hit unless wet.
BUT
Unless he was wet, he COULD NOT BE HIT. As long as it had water in it, he could suck it dry and TURN IT TO DUST!
Enel was MADE of LIGHTNING. He conquered worlds and destroyed whole islands with his power. Until he met Luffy, no man could stand a chance against him. Wiper got a good shot with his Reject Dial, until Enel RESTARTED HIS OWN HEART!
I could go on.Blackbeard. That is all.
Sorry I had two windows with this forum open so I forgot to post this
Jesus christ why does every1 think bb is so much stronger than every1 else he gets owned all of the time by EVERYONE. Enel defeated non df users. Yea Great example. You can find other ways to beat enel, like by using gold or by covering urself in latex. The user needs to be smart. They arent stronger they're just trickier to beat. Enel restarting his heart, that's because he practiced that and can do that. He made a way to do that by using his DF. I could go on.
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I am sorry Urouge when I said you I mean Xskart. I sorry for not saying who that comment was directed at. Xskart was basing who was stronger then who off of what there actually Devil Fruit powers are. So i was saying that if it was based of just what the Devil Fruit does then Bara Bara no mi would be stronger then Supa Supa no mi.
As you know my point is with training and planning the Supa Supa no mi would be stronger then the Bara Bara no mi even though in theroy Buggy being immune to slashing would make him stronger.
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Ah, I see I quoted the wrong person for the argument, but it stands anyway. It's still ridiculous to compare two fruits based on how they'd perform in combat against each other. It's probably the most inconsequential thing about them that's brought up, and a lot of people put a lot of weight on it for whatever reason that I can't understand.
Say Mr 1 tries to attack Buggy and can't do damage. He doesn't go "oh damn, I wish I would have gotten the barabara fruit instead of the supasupa fruit." That would be absolutely ridiculous. So arguing about how the fruits stack up against each other based on their head-to-head matchup as a measure of strength is equally ridiculous to me. It barely matters in the grand scheme.
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What do you think of my breakdown of the whole weak vs. strong DFs thing, Urouge? Not asking because I want attention or anything, but because you always contribute really high quality posts and since the subject's still up anywayā¦
_"I like to think of it as some DFs simply complementing an already existing fighting style, and some basically being a fighting style in itself. I mean, let's take Marco's, for example. He can fly and regenerate, OK, but that alone won't help him hurt people. He has to get physically strong and whatnot to be able to mount a strong offense. Lucci's fruit is an even better example; it only complements his already existing Rokushiki techniques, as well as increasing physical strength. But with someone like Enel's fruit, it gives him:
- Gigantic offense,
- extreme movement speed,
- defense in the form of intangibility,
- utility, like melding his staff into different shapes.
So it effectively becomes a fighting style in itself. In this way, some DFs are kind of "weak" just based on what they give you to use, but you can always make up for it; you'll never be hindered from becoming strong because you ate the "wrong" one. People like Rayleigh or Mihawk who don't have a DF at all and still are among the world's strongest makes that clear enough."_
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Unless he was wet, he COULD NOT BE HIT.
That's a pretty big fucking weakness when 90+% of the OP world is covered by water and you happen to be a fucking pirate.
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What do you think of my breakdown of the whole weak vs. strong DFs thing, Urouge? Not asking because I want attention or anything, but because you always contribute really high quality posts and since the subject's still up anywayā¦
_"I like to think of it as some DFs simply complementing an already existing fighting style, and some basically being a fighting style in itself. I mean, let's take Marco's, for example. He can fly and regenerate, OK, but that alone won't help him hurt people. He has to get physically strong and whatnot to be able to mount a strong offense. Lucci's fruit is an even better example; it only complements his already existing Rokushiki techniques, as well as increasing physical strength. But with someone like Enel's fruit, it gives him:
- Gigantic offense,
- extreme movement speed,
- defense in the form of intangibility,
- utility, like melding his staff into different shapes.
So it effectively becomes a fighting style in itself. In this way, some DFs are kind of "weak" just based on what they give you to use, but you can always make up for it; you'll never be hindered from becoming strong because you ate the "wrong" one. People like Rayleigh or Mihawk who don't have a DF at all and still are among the world's strongest makes that clear enough."_
I don't really see anything wrong with that statement. To put it simply, all DF's provide an advantage out of the water, but some are just more advantageous than others.
There are infrequent cases in One Piece in which some users treat their abilities as a crutch and fail to get stronger because of it. This could ultimately make them weaker in the long run, but it's all speculation on how long that would take, plus the fact that it'd vary by person. Mr 5 and Moriah are the two examples that immediately come to mind.
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I don't really see anything wrong with that statement. To put it simply, all DF's provide an advantage out of the water, but some are just more advantageous than others.
There are infrequent cases in One Piece in which some users treat their abilities as a crutch and fail to get stronger because of it. This could ultimately make them weaker in the long run, but it's all speculation on how long that would take, plus the fact that it'd vary by person. Mr 5 and Moriah are the two examples that immediately come to mind.
For sure. The way different powers respond to one another and the way a person uses their DF to it's full advantage could make all the difference in a fight. Luffy gets his ass handed to him by Magellan's poison yet a man he easily defeated with some fire and a boot to the head had the power to defend against itā¦ mostly.
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Yep, that's basically what I was getting at. The only exception I can see is a human eating Chopper's fruit, I guess, if we take Oda's explanation as being in jest, and maybe Brooke's as far as what it does for you in actual combat or other utility goes.
That's a good point as well. Mr. 5 is definitely a good example, the man was sitting on a ridiculously powerful fruit but was he himself a complete slouch ā likely because he was certain that his fruit would never fail him. Come to think of it, I vaguely recall a line along the lines of "There is no assignment that can't be carried out with the power of the Bomb-Bomb fruit".
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Yea, chopper's fruit is the only df i'd call weaker than every other fruit. Unless your an animal all what it gives u is the ability to NOT SWIM! Theres nothing u can do with that DF unless your not human. On the other hand, the only DF id call strong would be the pika pika no mi. It's pretty impossible to touch it without haki. Besides those, there are no strong or weak DF's, there are only strong or weak df users. End of discussion.
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On the other hand, the only DF id call strong would be the pika pika no mi. It's pretty impossible to touch it without haki. Besides those, there are no strong or weak DF's, there are only strong or weak df users. End of discussion.
Hm, I would not go that far. Other Logia fruits are also pretty much strong by "default" ā the Goro Goro no Mi is equally as untouchable as the Pika Pika no Mi, in 99.99% of cases, and arguably (I say arguably because I only assume that Kizaru's strikes being more destructive is due to his superior mastery) stronger. The magma fruit is similar. The Supa Supa no Mi (Daz's fruit) also qualifies, since it mounts a defense that most people can not get past (steel) and provides high offense through turning your body into blades.
A lot of fruits are definitely "strong", in the above way.
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It's still ridiculous to compare two fruits based on how they'd perform in combat against each other.
Say Mr 1 tries to attack Buggy and can't do damage. He doesn't go "oh damn, I wish I would have gotten the barabara fruit instead of the supasupa fruit." That would be absolutely ridiculous. So arguing about how the fruits stack up against each other based on their head-to-head matchup as a measure of strength is equally ridiculous to me. It barely matters in the grand scheme.
Thats the point i was trying to make. I don't want to be putting words into other people's mouths but what i got out of what Xskart was saying is that he was comparing Devil Fruits due to what they do. I was trying to say that with training and the right kind of planning then any Devil Fruit can match up against any other Devil Fruit.
Since i think we pretty much settled this topic. How about we move onto a new one? Only if people are done with this one. And i am sorry if i am being to pushy i just like having debate like discussions on topics i know pretty well. I would also like to thank everyone that participated in this discussion! It was very enjoyable!
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Hm, I would not go that far. Other Logia fruits are also pretty much strong by "default" ā the Goro Goro no Mi is equally as untouchable as the Pika Pika no Mi, in 99.99% of cases, and arguably (I say arguably because I only assume that Kizaru's strikes being more destructive is due to his superior mastery) stronger. The magma fruit is similar. The Supa Supa no Mi (Daz's fruit) also qualifies, since it mounts a defense that most people can not get past (steel) and provides high offense through turning your body into blades.
A lot of fruits are definitely "strong", in the above way.
No, they all have plenty of weaknesses. The goro goro no mi isn't really invincible. The only one that doesnt have a weakness is the pika pika no mi. the goro goro can be beaten by rubber, or by dousing oneself in latex, or it can be beaten with other things. Same with the lava fruit. Daz's fruit just needs to be broken, or it can be parried like I said before. Logias arent stronger, they can be beaten just as much as all of the other fruits can be.
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You bring up a very good point. It has been said that Robin might be able to replicate her whole body to make a "clone". Her Devil Fruit is defined as being able to sprout any part of her body onto living or non-living things. Since Cells are apart of the body i don't see why she won't be able to sprout cells onto her body. But then she would use her Devil Fruit power to keep them in case which would mean that if she got knocked out they may disappear. But you have a very good theory and a very good idea!!!
Whatever Robin makes doesn't become permanent though. She could in theory replicate cells to cover wounds, but she would have to continually have that activated, which probably wouldn't really work.
Very good point. That's why I am thinking of what possible progress she could have done with her DF. In way I guess I could compare her to a logia. Logia users at the beggining need to concentrate to become intangible but with time the process becomes reflexive like we saw with Crocodile. I can see Nico Robin finding a way for her healing be an instinctive reaction of the body which lasts permnently. I mean considering she do huge hands under the water without much ill effects I am guessing she has trained her DF power like crazy I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility especially since she is the only one of the more monstorous members of the crew who doesn't like have good defense. The monster trio has their toughness, Franky has his armor so I can see Robin with a mini phoenix like ability. Although as I said I would much rather see her use her ability kinda like Urouge but even more so and turn herself into a giant. That would be awesome
Akainu's Devil Fruit is stronger then Ace's Devil Fruit but Ace jumped into the punch! He was not actually fighting him! No one knows what the outcome of a fight between the two would be.
Agreed. Especially since a fire potential with the right training can burn much hotter then magma. And speaking of DF comparsions that got me thinking of Smoker vs Ace. I wonder how Smoker would fair against Akainu. I doubt smoke can stop something with that much material behind it. But then again I thought it was kinda strange it stopped fire as well. Unless the smoke stopped it because it somehow tempered with the oxygen in the air.
Akainu could punch ace because magma was >>>> fire . Ace can train his ass of like hell but that doesnt change that.
Actually fire > beats magma. Magma has an upper temerature of 1600Ā°C . Fire can burn much hotter then this
Now tell me how luffy could beat mr1 ? Rubber versus ironā¦. Luffy stands no chance if we exclude haki. Luffy is so much more skilled but at the end he cant damage Mr.1 and thats the whole problem here
Hmm let's see. The ability to defeat Mr.1 is connected to Iron. Luffy broke apart a massive steel door with his Gear 3ā¦.yeah I don't see much problem except that luffy would get cut a lot but he can take it
Blackbread does have a weakness by the way. Since the darkness he controls has its own gravity, attacks are pulled in towards him making him somewhat of an easy target to hit.
And he can cancel DF powers only when he touches the user. Long range Df attacks hurt him and bad. I can only imagine what Kizaru would have done to him if he left him as open as he did to Ace's attacks
You can find other ways to beat enel, like by using gold or by covering urself in latex.
Or simply using sea stone which as we saw worked quite well and then cut his head off instead of waiting for him to restart his heart
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at Saturnchild in One piece magma is hotter than fire remember one piece is not our world it's Oda's so not our worlds rules apply.
Aokiji is the one who makes the water below him freeze. He's gotta do it right when he touches the water, so he's gotta be pretty good. Aokiji could be worse than buggy really. There is no leeway either, Buggy can fly over water and is immune to slashes, but he's not that strong.
I don't think Buggy could fly to different islands like how Aokiji goes to different islands by freezing the water because Buggy's legs/feet stand on the ground they don't float/fly in the air like the rest of Buggy's body also as seen in impel down the rest of his body is forced back to his legs/feet if his body gets to far away from them.
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No, they all have plenty of weaknesses. The goro goro no mi isn't really invincible. The only one that doesnt have a weakness is the pika pika no mi. the goro goro can be beaten by rubber, or by dousing oneself in latex, or it can be beaten with other things. Same with the lava fruit. Daz's fruit just needs to be broken, or it can be parried like I said before. Logias arent stronger, they can be beaten just as much as all of the other fruits can be.
Well, going by this reasoning (I don't agree, but for the sake of argument) you shouldn't count the Pika Pika no Mi either because it can be beaten by seastone, like Smoker's jutte, a gaol bullet or cuffing the person. It's not easy to do, sure, but it can be done. In that sense the PPnM is not any less without weaknesses than the GGnM.
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Well, going by this reasoning (I don't agree, but for the sake of argument) you shouldn't count the Pika Pika no Mi either because it can be beaten by seastone, like Smoker's jutte, a gaol bullet or cuffing the person. It's not easy to do, sure, but it can be done. In that sense the PPnM is not any less without weaknesses than the GGnM.
Yea. Someone can use seastone which means that it's also not invincible. Now my i rest my case. Logias are not superior
I don't think Buggy could fly to different islands like how Aokiji goes to different islands by freezing the water because Buggy's legs/feet stand on the ground they don't float/fly in the air like the rest of Buggy's body also as seen in impel down the rest of his body is forced back to his legs/feet if his body gets to far away from them.
Buggy can carry his legs. I always got confused because buggy can just carry his legs. Also the distance can probably be extended if Buggy trained himself.
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Yea. Someone can use seastone which means that it's also not invincible. Now my i rest my case. Logias are not superior
But do you not see how the GGnM or the PPnM are, just by eating them, not taking the strength of the individual into account at all, a much greater strength boost in itself than something like Luffy's fruit? If random fodder #5328 eats Enel's fruit, he can blast people with lightning, move at lightning speed, is invincible to almost all attacks and so on. He'll be extremely dangerous just from this. If the same guy eats Luffy's fruit, he can stretch out his limbs and is still basically a weakling. In this sense, the GGnM itself is more powerful. I really don't see what's so wrong with thinking of it in this sense. Even Oda himself does that:
"Whitebeard creates earthquakes, in other words he's a "Vibration Human". That means he's a Paramecia who isn't any weaker than the Logias." - SBS 58
"Logia is the "best" of the three types, as it gives control over the forces of nature." - SBS 30
Seems pretty clear to me that Logia are considered the "default" strongest class, and it's really quite obvious why to me. It doesn't mean that they're inherently "better" as such - hence Oda's usage of quotation marks around the word best - but they are stronger when you just look at the fruit itself, what powers it grants.
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But do you not see how the GGnM or the PPnM are, just by eating them, not taking the strength of the individual into account at all, a much greater strength boost in itself than something like Luffy's fruit? If random fodder #5328 eats Enel's fruit, he can blast people with lightning, move at lightning speed, is invincible to almost all attacks and so on. He'll be extremely dangerous just from this. If the same guy eats Luffy's fruit, he can stretch out his limbs and is still basically a weakling. In this sense, the GGnM itself is more powerful. I really don't see what's so wrong with thinking of it in this sense. Even Oda himself does that:
"Whitebeard creates earthquakes, in other words he's a "Vibration Human". That means he's a Paramecia who isn't any weaker than the Logias." - SBS 58
"Logia is the "best" of the three types, as it gives control over the forces of nature." - SBS 30
Seems pretty clear to me that Logia are considered the "default" strongest class, and it's really quite obvious why to me. It doesn't mean that they're inherently "better" as such - hence Oda's usage of quotation marks around the word best - but they are stronger when you just look at the fruit itself, what powers it grants.
Yea but they arent. Thats SBS he sometimes talks informally. I know, that was a bad argument on my part. Also enel doens't get the granted power of creating blasts of lightning. Luffy doesn't get the power automatically to use the gomu gomu no pistol. All what enel got was the ability to be lightning. That doesnt mean he could know how to restart his heart or create blasts of lightning, he created those moves on his own. They all depend on the user.
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Ignore the blasting thing, then. He can walk into people and they'll be horribly damaged from his lightning. It applies even more if you make it Akainu's fruit. Bottom line is, the eater of the Gomu Gomu no Mi needs to become physically powerful to really make use of its abilities, the lightning fruit grants immense power almost right off the bat.
"He talks informally" really isn't a good excuse. Oda himself quite plainly says Logia are considered the strongest fruits, Whitebeard's is essentially considered the strongest Paramecia. Yes, it still comes down to the user, but that doesn't mean that the fruits don't grant you different "default" degrees of power. I don't see why you have a problem with this being the case.
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What i wanna is if Marco can rise from his own ashes like a real phoenix. A phoenix is nearly immortal, so why Marco isn't? He can heal any wound but not wounds like sliced off limbs, but because he has phoenix powers he should be able to.
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@Mr.:
I just hope it's not Ace's DF. I think every character should have their own unique DF. IMO whitebeard will always be the gura gura man.
I think a zoan would suit Coby.
Yes, I agree. I think part of the reason BB got the fruit from WB (after we all learned what a truly great man and leader he was) was so we could hate him even more.
And Luffy has been training basically his entire life (think about his upbringing as trainingāthe effect is that of training and that is what Garp intended, after all) He ought by rights to remain worlds stronger than Coby for the remainder of teh series, because he was a good 17 years ahead in terms of mental and physical and battle training. JMO, of course, though.
The main point I am trying to get across is that with the right training and planning a "weak" Devil Fruit can become rather powerfulā¦
"He talks informally" really isn't a good excuse. Oda himself quite plainly says Logia are considered the strongest fruits, Whitebeard's is essentially considered the strongest Paramecia. Yes, it still comes down to the user, but that doesn't mean that the fruits don't grant you different "default" degrees of power. I don't see why you have a problem with this being the case.
Yes, in the end the fruits are able to be generally weighted in terms of strength, although Urouge's point is well taken and really trumps any general listing and ranking of the fruits in terms of power, but more to the point, is that it's the USER, not the FRUIT, that beats any other fighter. Fruits can't fight, right? It's a combo of native ability in battle situations (imagination or inginuity (sp?), if you will)āand Luffy has that in spades, along with physical strength and training, and sheer strength of will and confidence to not lose concentration or courage in the middle of a battle.
A fruit can give any given user a distinct advantage, but if the opponent is ingenious enough, they may still be able to overcome it. It is just impossible in battle to separate what the user brings with him as inherent strengths from how he uses the fruit. That is true even in the real world, where simple farmers with pitchforks and hunting rifles can run off a well trained, incredibly strong, army, if they are lead effectively and imaginatively enough. Even Usopp has shown that aspect of the fruit argument effectively, IMHO
Just sayin'.
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Oh, I certainly agree with all that. The man makes the fruit is Oda's constant theme, and that's how it goes for the most part and certainly at the top levels. I'm just trying to say that it isn't as though it's impossible to say "this fruit is really strong", eitherā¦ as I've explained, some of them do grant quite incredible powers even with a starkly mediocre user, while others would simply leave the user virtually equally as useless as he was before eating the fruit and missing the ability to swim. And with how even Oda consistently uses words like "best" or "no weaker" in his descriptions, I don't think that we should be afraid to do so either -- just as long as one remembers that a "weak" fruit will never be a barrier, that it's always possible to make up for whatever the fruit does not give you.
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Oh, I certainly agree with all that. The man makes the fruit is Oda's constant theme, and that's how it goes for the most part and certainly at the top levels. I'm just trying to say that it isn't as though it's impossible to say "this fruit is really strong", eitherā¦ as I've explained, some of them do grant quite incredible powers even with a starkly mediocre user, while others would simply leave the user virtually equally as useless as he was before eating the fruit and missing the ability to swim. And with how even Oda consistently uses words like "best" or "no weaker" in his descriptions, I don't think that we should be afraid to do so either -- just as long as one remembers that a "weak" fruit will never be a barrier, that it's always possible to make up for whatever the fruit does not give you.
I agree with you 100%. Logias do grant a great power boast to the user of the Devil Fruit which would make them pretty strong to start with but Zoan and Parameica Devil Fruit users to pratice and train with their powers so that they to get just as strong as a Logia user. We shouldn't be afraid to call a Devil Fruit the best because of the powers it grants to the users but we also shouldn't call another Devil Fruit weak and useless due to the powers it grants to the user. All Devil Fruit users have the potential to become very powerful if they put the time and effort into training and making battle plans with thier Devil Fruit powers.
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heedless of the current discussion i had a random theory about Donflamingo fuit. he has the ke-ke no mi (hair hair fuit): give the user the ability to control and manipulate their hair.
reading through, i saw the discussion on Coby and a him getting a DF. if he did, get one. it would be a Zoan, i think a bunny rabbit would be fitting.
and on the current discussion. Mr.2 gains no direct combat abilities from his fruit. only using it to copy some one who has great physical prowess can he gain any combat abilities. i would like to know if control over Haki would classify into some thing he could copy.
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^I don't think he gains their physical strength. Just their body shape.
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heedless of the current discussion i had a random theory about Donflamingo fuit. he has the ke-ke no mi (hair hair fuit): give the user the ability to control and manipulate their hair.
reading through, i saw the discussion on Coby and a him getting a DF. if he did, get one. it would be a Zoan, i think a bunny rabbit would be fitting.
and on the current discussion. Mr.2 gains no direct combat abilities from his fruit. only using it to copy some one who has great physical prowess can he gain any combat abilities. i would like to know if control over Haki would classify into some thing he could copy.
It could be a possiblilty but i don't see how that would control a persons whole body. But ever idea is a possible in Oda's world!!
A bunny rabbit would suit Coby! But i think he might get something stronger then that.
Since Mr 2 has not trained to use Haki, as far as i know of, and if he copied the body of someone that can use Haki, he will be unable to use it himself. But Mr. 2 will gain the physical strength of a person he copied but he will not be able to use the persons fighting stlye since he was not trained in it. Example: If he changed to Zoro's body he will still be unable to use the three sword stlye that is unique to Zoro.
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It could be a possiblilty but i don't see how that would control a persons whole body. But ever idea is a possible in Oda's world!!
A bunny rabbit would suit Coby! But i think he might get something stronger then that.
Since Mr 2 has not trained to use Haki, as far as i know of, and if he copied the body of someone that can use Haki, he will be unable to use it himself. But Mr. 2 will gain the physical strength of a person he copied but he will not be able to use the persons fighting stlye since he was not trained in it. Example: If he changed to Zoro's body he will still be unable to use the three sword stlye that is unique to Zoro.
Hair can be used as string.
with Coby only Oda knows. but a rabbit would sound like oda.
ok, i'll give you that. still he would get Zoro's physical strength, which is nothing to sneeze at, even if it is his Alabaster body.
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Those are good points. Hair could be used as a string in which he can control people. But what about when he cuts of the limbs of other people without touching him. And Zoro's physical strength is rather strong so Mr. 2 would still be strong with Zoro's body.
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[hide]Can I give spoilers here ?[/hide]
Some DF canĀ“t evolve in power (like BrookĀ“s and AbsalonĀ“s Fruit), others fruits are in a "raw state" like Moria fruitĀ“s.
A question about Logias.
Suna Suna no mi, Besides turning the User in to sand.
Through training, the User can dry anything with his hands.
My question, all Logias have a hidden power ?
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I'm not really sure about spoilers
That is a good point but with Absalom you can really make battle plans. His power is quite useful in battle. He even proved it with the whole invisible bazooka thing that he had. Even Sanji said that he made a lot of battle plans with the ability the fruit granted the user.
Brooks gives you a second chance to live! You can learn from all the mistakes you made from your first life and you can become stronger!
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[hide]Can I give spoilers here ?[/hide]
[hide]
The rule is that nothing from spoilers can be discussedāabsolutely nothing--outside the appropriate thread in the spoiler section until the actual chapter thread is up in the general manga section. If you have some wrinkle that makes that seem unclear, or I've misunderstood the question, then please PM me or another mod. I get hives if even the word "spoilers" appears outside the thread, given the current atmosphere against spoilers and attitudes of the major publishing houses etc. atm, sicne frequnet searches are conducted, and this forum is very high on the hit list for most search engines. Thanks for using hidden tags, btw. Not sure that works against searches, but it's an effort I appreciate.[/hide]Some DF canĀ“t evolve in power (like BrookĀ“s and AbsalonĀ“s Fruit), others fruits are in a "raw state" like Moria fruitĀ“s.
A question about Logias.
Suna Suna in the mi, Besides turning the User in to sand, (through training) the User can dry anything with his hands.
My question, all Logias have a hidden power ?
Interesting point about Some d/f not getting stronger, though one could argue that Brook could get stronger merely by virtue of being alive longer and therefore having at the least the time to increase his skill level through practice if not actual physical strength. If his soul had been able to get back to his body, though, that would of course be different. Yes, I understand that isn't the d/f powers gaining strength, but fwiw it can be directly correlated to the d/f usage. I bet you can find a correlation like that for most, if not all, fruits.
As for the question on logias and secret powers, I don't think that was meant to be a secret power, per se. I think Oda always has twists planned for important characters' d/f powers, and that was the one that made sense for Croc's.
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@I:
As for the question on logias and secret powers, I don't think that was meant to be a secret power, per se. I think Oda always has twists planned for important characters' d/f powers, and that was the one that made sense for Croc's.
I agree with you, another example of this would be Enel being able to restart his own heart with his Devil Fruit powers.
I also want to ask everyone something else. This has probably been brought up many times before but what do you guys think of the supernovas Devil Fruit powers? I find them all very unique in there own way. They're really are odd by very intriguing to me.
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and on the current discussion. Mr.2 gains no direct combat abilities from his fruit. only using it to copy some one who has great physical prowess can he gain any combat abilities. i would like to know if control over Haki would classify into some thing he could copy.
^I don't think he gains their physical strength. Just their body shape.
He wouldn't copy Haki. He would copy the physical shape and likely their strength, but he would have no knowledge of how to use it. He is trained in Okama Kenpo, but only in his body, he can't properly use that in Luffy or Zoro's body because their bodies aren't trained in his fighting style, and therefore wouldn't be as effective. In Zoro's body, he would be best suited for Santoryu, but he has no knowledge of how to use it and cannot fight with it.
I also want to ask everyone something else. This has probably been brought up many times before but what do you guys think of the supernovas Devil Fruit powers? I find them all very unique in there own way. They're really are odd by very intriguing to me.
I always have trouble recalling them since they are a hefty collective. But I agree they are very unique and interesting.
Gum Gum, what more can you say?
Kid's Magnet power, awesome.
Law's Surgery power, totally badass. This is the one I want to know more about if I was limited to one.
Bege's Fortress power, neat.
Bonney's Age powers, neat.
Drake's Dino power, Totally and unequivocally awesome.
Apoo's Music power, hilarious. Check it out!
-can't remember his name's- Straw Man power- Second on my mysterious list after Law.
Urouge's power we don't know is a DF- Fun times.Am I forgetting one? Probably.
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Basil Hawkins is the one with the "Straw Man Power" He can also have other people take damage for him and then little voodo dolls pop out of his body. And you were just missing Killer, no DF as of right now, and Zoro.
I would like to see more of Law's powers as well but most people do anyways. One that really fascinated me was Bege. I don't know why I like his powers so much because I do realize you can't really expand on it very much.
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Oh, I certainly agree with all that. The man makes the fruit is Oda's constant theme, and that's how it goes for the most part and certainly at the top levels.
Even moreso then most people realise or acknowledge.
It is very rare someone is Known for their DF power - they are more likely to be known and feared for their Name alone then the DF power they posess.
Why? Because it is the drive and the personality behind the power to fear - they have Seastone - Haki and sometimes counter DF powers to combat the powers of others - but the name and the determination of the person weilding the powers seems to be important.
Whitebeard feared by many - spoken about and even shown - it still took over 500 chapters before his power was shown. At the war - iirc no one even knew what Marco's power was other then the WB pirates.I'm just trying to say that it isn't as though it's impossible to say "this fruit is really strong", eitherā¦ as I've explained, some of them do grant quite incredible powers even with a starkly mediocre user, while others would simply leave the user virtually equally as useless as he was before eating the fruit and missing the ability to swim. And with how even Oda consistently uses words like "best" or "no weaker" in his descriptions, I don't think that we should be afraid to do so either -- just as long as one remembers that a "weak" fruit will never be a barrier, that it's always possible to make up for whatever the fruit does not give you.
Ok lets use Enel - say his power goes to a pacifist - like a monk/nun I don't think they would be the scourge of the world not too sure what they would use it for but they wouldn't be feared for it.
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The gum gum fruit is weak, it took Luffy years to be able to throw a good punch with it.
But look at Luffy now, he is a wicked powerful and feared pirate.
The pika pika fruit is strong, Kizaru can point at you and you will get a hole in your chest, or kick you and be lauched wicked far and be severly wounded. Kizaru is also incredibly hard to touch or do damage to.The point I am trying to make is that no fruit, if you work with them and train your self with them, is weak but some fruits are stronger and have more potential.
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some fruits are just not developed enough.
if some one else(stronger i.e) had the noro noro powers , i would personally love to see the growth they went through.
time control is a badass thing to have. but foxy didnt do justice to the fruit.logian fruits anyway are superior fruits. Just their intangibility to anything other than haki or their negation/superior fruit/element is a major thing.
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Foxy is a great example of someone who was dependent on his Devil Fruit power to much and in the end it cost him. Like you said, if Foxy or someone else trained and devloped the noro noro powers then they would be pretty strong. Foxy had a strong power just never used it to its full potential.
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Foxy had a strong power just never used it to its full potential.
I think Mr. 5 is a better example of having an awesome power that never reached its full potential. Another good example I think would be Mr. 3's
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I do agree with you on Mr. 5. I feel like we are going to see more of Mr. 3 later on so we get to see him develop as a character and watch his powers reach new levels. But he did depend on his Devil Fruit as well.
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Galdino was the only person in Impel Down we saw that actually stopped Magellan's juggernaut assault.
I wouldn't write him off so easily.His downfall is, as you say, him relying on his powers and not training his own physical body to be stronger.
But his adept mastery of his skill itself is no joke, IMO. -
I am not saying that he is a weak person. He is rather strong. I was trying to say that the frist time he fought the Straw Hats he depended on his Devil Fruit powers to win the battle for him. And that mistake was his downfall. He has improved since that time and i am looking forward to seeing him get stronger in the future and gain even more mastery over his Devil Fruit powers.
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at Saturnchild in One piece magma is hotter than fire remember one piece is not our world it's Oda's so not our worlds rules apply.
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Ehh no. It's hotter then the fire Ace could create since he didn't seem to have trained his powers much
Yea. Someone can use seastone which means that it's also not invincible. Now my i rest my case. Logias are not superior
We have yet to see if Seastone can completely neutralize a DF users. We know they are two types of Sea Stone. One which blocks their powers but keeps them normal and one which is more closer to sea water and not just cancels their powers but also weakens them. However as we saw Nico Robin who is not an Admiral's level managed to still use her powers under the ocean for a few second without much ill effects. So using sea stone on someone as tough as an admiral by itself is not a guarantued win. It's quite likely that such tough fighters might manage to resist the weakness of the DF strong enough to get out of the sneak attack and respond
However to say that logia are not superior is just stupid. Of course that training is an important part but with two people who train equally and one of them has Logia while the other one Zoan/Para 99 out of 100 the Logia will win
Buggy can carry his legs. I always got confused because buggy can just carry his legs. Also the distance can probably be extended if Buggy trained himself.
His legs must be on the ground
And Luffy has been training basically his entire life (think about his upbringing as trainingāthe effect is that of training and that is what Garp intended, after all) He ought by rights to remain worlds stronger than Coby for the remainder of teh series, because he was a good 17 years ahead in terms of mental and physical and battle training. JMO, of course, though.
True but Coby trained under Garp. This is a much much bigger thing then his previosu training so Coby is much closer
Fruits can't fight, right?
That would be an interesting thing to see. A Fight Fight fruit then you have to first defeat to eat it
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I was trying to say that the frist time [Galdino] fought the Straw Hats he depended on his Devil Fruit powers to win the battle for him.
While Galdino certainly rely on his ability to create and manipulate wax, it's still his own skill and talent that he rely on. It's no different than CP9 relying on Rokushiki or Zoro relying on his swordsmanship - every character relies on their skill set.
[Magma] hotter then the fire Ace could create since he didn't seem to have trained his powers much
If you're referring to Akainu's superiority over Ace, it was not because his magma was hotter that he burned Ace: it was because his magma could "consume" Ace's fire.
Akainu: [ā¦] You are mere "fire"ā¦ whilst I am "magma", with the power to consume even fire itself!! // My ability is a natural enemy of your own, boy!!!
We don't know whether Akainu's magma was hotter than Ace's fire or not.
However as we saw Nico Robin who is not an Admiral's level managed to still use her powers under the ocean for a few second without much ill effects.
If I recall, Oda said in an SBS during EL that Devil Fruit users aren't affected by the ocean unless more than 50% of their body is submerged.
Now, it's probable that the reason Robin could (briefly) spawn limbs outside the bubble is because she herself was safe and sound inside the bubble.
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I am not saying that he is a weak person. He is rather strong. I was trying to say that the frist time he fought the Straw Hats he depended on his Devil Fruit powers to win the battle for him. And that mistake was his downfall. He has improved since that time and i am looking forward to seeing him get stronger in the future and gain even more mastery over his Devil Fruit powers.
Mr 3 is not strong. He's actually fairly weak, but he can be formidable because he's smart and he knows how to use his power well.
His [Buggy's] legs must be on the ground
That's not quite true. He can't carry his legs himself, but he showed in Impel Down that another person can carry his legs for him.
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@ShenLong:
What i wanna is if Marco can rise from his own ashes like a real phoenix. A phoenix is nearly immortal, so why Marco isn't? He can heal any wound but not wounds like sliced off limbs, but because he has phoenix powers he should be able to.
And what happens if Magellan touches marco and he gets poisened, could marco heal that?