I am been realistic. cant be optimistic when you have seen what I have seen and when you read back on the history of the US and what you can always see for the past 100 years have always been war. war and war.
And that means things just have to go that way forever huh?
War won't stop with more fucking war
Hearing this "I'm a soldier" thing justify all of that is funny to me, because my father may as well be JERK DISEASE/Zephos in your eyes and he's a retired Air Force Colonel who currently works for NATO. You'd probably write off what he's saying just as much as you are Zephos.
You're a Texan, aren't you.
If not, bet you're still a Republican. Hope you enjoy Sarah Palin.
Creating massively divisive factions who are divorced from one another in the form of "Democrat" and "Republican" cliches are a terrible thing. It only further creates public and political dissonance in a government that may very well yo-yo like mad in the years to come.
Think of progress, please, because this whole "making political parties personal" thing is detrimental as hell and it's what creates people that believe in their party and not ideas.
let me tell you something to get something straight up with you, If we wage war, if we stop war , if we expand or if we become isolated, we will ALWAYS be attacked and hated by terrorist. you want to know something else? there will be ALWAYS a war for the US and US can maintain and sustain a war for ever. war will not break the country nor economy.
There will always be a war if people keep looking for one.
you want to know what messed up the economy? the rise in gasoline prices.
gas went up, companies did not rise their salaries yet they did rise their prices because transportating the goods and foods etc was then more expensive. people spent more in gas cumulatively and less in goods which now were more expensive. wal street and credit fraud also destroyed the economy. this war has not bankrupt the country because our war budget is huge.
The war budget being huge is kinda a bad thing. The money all ultimately comes from the same pot, if you're not involved in so many active military encounters, the US would not need to take on quite so much debt, or have more capital to stimulate the economy.
our activities in Afghanistan,Iraq and now the drones in Yemen have allowed americans to live a more peaceful life because if oyu have noticed it in almost 10 years there has been NO attacks, yea sure maybe 1 or 2 failed attack but nothing in large scale. why? because we are bringing war to the terrorist. so while you sleep at night and complaint in the morning drinking your cofee in front of a computer about how the $$ went down or the loss of jobs, we are wasting our lives (cuz that is what i feel when i hear of americans who express themselves like you ) far from home to keep our homeland safe. and we are not the only ones who think this way, NATO have tons of troops from other countries who beleive boots in Afghanistan and Iraq are nesscesary to prevent attacks back in their countries as well.
You're coming off like Jack Nicholson at the end of "a few good men".
If I picked up a stone and made myself believe it stopped me from getting bitten from snakes, and then never got bitten by snakes again, does that mean the stone worked? You have no way of backing up your claim.
quick roundup of cables released so far
-7GkIZCepzI
…
Apologies for my post.@Dragonxpiece:
by the way, guess which ones were the less efficient soldiers on my last tour? huahaua you guessed the Brit. and surpsingly Canadian forces provide much more guts than the brits on the last patrol I did.
At least we aren't regularly engaged in friendly fire.
I am been realistic. cant be optimistic when you have seen what I have seen and when you read back on the history of the US and what you can always see for the past 100 years have always been war and war and war.
Yeah, try reading back on your own history again. You've been at war with Britain, Mexico, The Philippines, Germany, Italy, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, you had an informal war with Russia and you even succumbed to a civil war.
Tell me, how many of these wars continue today?
There were plenty of people who thought the Cold War was going to last forever and I bet there were thousands of colonists who thoughts Britain would never leave them alone. Look at the relationship between these countries today. The rise of Islamic fundamentalism and the conflict it's created with the West is just a shift in the patchwork of history, it's not a war that will end all wars. A consensus will always be reached, because a consensus always has been reached. History shows us that no war is inevitable and that no conflict is endless.
dont quite frankly understand why u think its stupid to be realistic.
Warmongering aint realism. I can understand why you say that war is necessarily going to happen because otherwise you'll be forced to face the fact that you and your platoon are something the world preferably doesn't need anymore.
and scared? yea not only you, even me. and its the pure reality.
I'm not scared because I agree that there's "100% GONNA BE A WAR FOREVER YEEHAW!!!" but because this attitude is incredibly dangerous. War is only ever a complete last resort, it should not be thought of as a necessary option.
quick roundup of cables released so far
-7GkIZCepzI
Thanks for sharing this.
The Philippines
War is only ever a complete last resort, it should not be thought of as a necessary option.
Just curious, why is there "The" before Philippines?
I agree with the last statement, war should always be the last resort. ALWAYS.
I hate all this generic talk about supporting your troops and how any sort of objection or attempt for transparency is treason. It's always based on a bunch of idiotic, misinformed misconceptions, baseless fear-mongering and petty, narrow-minded, irrelevant insults.
Just curious, why is there "The" before Philippines?
Well technically it's the Republic of the Philippines and saying Philippines by itself sounds uncomfortable.
I don't want to argue anymore or defend stances, you guys win. Ill continue doing what im doing, in January im deployed again and will keep doing the right thing , if I become a COW ill make sure i send some big ups to the dear people of AP for supporting and hating =)
Yeah, try reading back on your own history again. You've been at war with Britain, Mexico, The Philippines, Germany, Italy, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, you had an informal war with Russia and you even succumbed to a civil war.
Tell me, how many of these wars continue today?
There were plenty of people who thought the Cold War was going to last forever and I bet there were thousands of colonists who thoughts Britain would never leave them alone. Look at the relationship between these countries today. The rise of Islamic fundamentalism and the conflict it's created with the West is just a shift in the patchwork of history, it's not a war that will end all wars. A consensus will always be reached, because a consensus always has been reached. History shows us that no war is inevitable and that no conflict is endless. Warmongering aint realism. I can understand why you say that war is necessarily going to happen because otherwise you'll be forced to face the fact that you and your platoon are something the world preferably doesn't need anymore.
I'm not scared because I agree that there's "100% GONNA BE A WAR FOREVER YEEHAW!!!" but because this attitude is incredibly dangerous. War is only ever a complete last resort, it should not be thought of as a necessary option.
you understand that when i mean WAR i mean not a war with 1 country or entity but wars in generals. for example war vs saddam government/army, ended, now war with taliban, ending ????? now moving to another war and not to mention the tensions in Iran…. NK .... etc those wars are coming.
that is my point on wars. and you said it yourself and prooved my point, you mentioned the wars with all those countries and i said 100 years in history is always been wars for the US.
also, we cannot achieve peace like you say , how can you deal with terrorist?? people who want to see the world burn just because? people who are so closed minded that they are willing to blow themselves up and kill thousands of innocent people just because some guy tells them that because we are not muslim, we are enemies , or because some muslim dont consider mohammed "the man" then now also becomes target for other muslims groups. my platoon is nesscesary as long as the USA army exist, i personally dont care for war, I just care to defend the country, protect and train my people and survive (oh yea and $$ for OP merchandise 
)
Apologies for my post.At least we aren't regularly engaged in friendly fire.
you will be surprised to know how many NATO not US only but NATO soldiers die from FF and not all of it is reported….. so, perhaps u want to re think that argument :happy:
you understand that when i mean WAR i mean not a war with 1 country or entity but wars in generals. for example war vs saddam government/army, ended, now war with taliban, ending ????? now moving to another war and not to mention the tensions in Iran…. NK .... etc those wars are coming.
that is my point on wars. and you said it yourself and prooved my point, you mentioned the wars with all those countries and i said 100 years in history is always been wars for the US.
Yeah, you badly missed my point. The USA have been at war with all of these countries, do you ever think it could happen again? Do you ever think another Imperialistic power will rise and threaten the USA. That a Neo-Facist will spring up and endanger our liberal societies. That another communism superpower will rise and have a comparable military to the USA? These ideological wars are done forever and Western Liberalism has engulfed and absorbed. Islamic Fundamentalism will have to conform and it's already shown massive signs of doing so. There are only so many enemies one can fight on a global, war like scale (refer to The End of History and The Last Man).
also, we cannot achieve peace like you say , how can you deal with terrorist?? people who want to see the world burn just because? people who are so closed minded that they are willing to blow themselves up and kill thousands of innocent people just because some guy tells them that because we are not muslim, we are enemies , or because some muslim dont consider mohammed "the man" then now also becomes target for other muslims groups. my platoon is nesscesary as long as the USA army exist, i personally dont care for war, I just care to defend the country, protect and train my people and survive (oh yea and $$ for OP merchandise
There will always be some anarchists and political dissenters but they can be dealt with by the law. As for organised terrorists groups, the things that unites them is a common ideology. What do they have to fight for when that ideology is widely considered to be defeated? How many working class anarchistic movements do you see today (something which caused far more damage than any Islamic terrorist group in the 20s and 30s).
you will be surprised to know how many NATO not US only but NATO soldiers die from FF and not all of it is reported….. so, perhaps u want to re think that argument :happy:
I guarantee you that no matter what those unreported numbers are, the numbers of unreported civilian deaths will always be more shocking.
Soldiers know what they're fighting and dying for.
Civilians don't sign up to be bombed and gunned down in the streets.
Yeah, you badly missed my point. The USA have been at war with all of these countries, do you ever think it could happen again? Do you ever think another Imperialistic power will rise and threaten the USA. That a Neo-Facist will spring up and endanger our liberal societies. That another communism superpower will rise and have a comparable military to the USA? These ideological wars are done forever and Western Liberalism has engulfed and absorbed. Islamic Fundamentalism will have to conform and it's already shown massive signs of doing so. There are only so many enemies one can fight on a global, war like scale (refer to The End of History and The Last Man).
There will always be some anarchists and political dissenters but they can be dealt with by the law. As for organised terrorists groups, the things that unites them is a common ideology. What do they have to fight for when that ideology is widely considered to be defeated? How many working class anarchistic movements do you see today (something which caused far more damage than any Islamic terrorist group in the 20s and 30s).
You seriously think there will never be another big war or conflict like WW2? How naive. There is always the chance that a mad man could get into power somewhere and attack other countries. That threat never goes away and the fact that you think it has is naive at best. I'm not saying I support war, I'm just saying that Human beings have always waged war and will continue to do so until the end of time.
I guarantee you that no matter what those unreported numbers are, the numbers of unreported civilian deaths will always be more shocking.
Soldiers know what they're fighting and dying for.
Civilians don't sign up to be bombed and gunned down in the streets.
certainly the number of CIV casualties done by NATO are way way way less than the amount killed by their fellow muslims / nationals people
but i passionately opose any CIV casualties done by our army and if there is any whoever did it must be brought to justice.
Dragonpiece you're a dumbshit if you think Europe needs Americans help to defend itself. We have woven economical ties with pretty much anyone and everyone, no matter what kind of government they have. That is a policy that West Germany has developed during the cold war, in order to come to terms with East Germany and the Eastern Block. Today it has been adapted by the EU and is used on many states that you would see as a potential enemy, while we make sure that they can't attack us, because their economy will chrash if they do.
So shove your "We have to save the world" up your ass. If you really wanna deal with dangerous fanatics, you better go home because that's where you will find them sipping their tea.
Yeah, you badly missed my point. The USA have been at war with all of these countries, do you ever think it could happen again? Do you ever think another Imperialistic power will rise and threaten the USA. That a Neo-Facist will spring up and endanger our liberal societies. That another communism superpower will rise and have a comparable military to the USA? These ideological wars are done forever and Western Liberalism has engulfed and absorbed. Islamic Fundamentalism will have to conform and it's already shown massive signs of doing so. There are only so many enemies one can fight on a global, war like scale (refer to The End of History and The Last Man).
There will always be some anarchists and political dissenters but they can be dealt with by the law. As for organised terrorists groups, the things that unites them is a common ideology. What do they have to fight for when that ideology is widely considered to be defeated? How many working class anarchistic movements do you see today (something which caused far more damage than any Islamic terrorist group in the 20s and 30s).
Perhaps if you would have experience internationally and know the true facts you would re think things twice. NATO have a big big big counter-military alliance to worry about, and its called SCO (look it up) if you think no one can rise against the US, this is it. this alliance in my opinion is stronger than a NATO without the US.
every country in the world have always a complaint against us, I as a military person sometimes think you know what, lets just pull out our bases out of everywhere , stop helping the other countries and just focus on ourselves, sure some countries want that (not their governments for sure but the people , like the brussels guys from the forum here who notably hate the USA) but then what? what happens if the US influence dissapears from Europe, specially the US protection.
do you know what is a big big reason why China does not attack SK neither Japan? WE are the reason. yet you see a lot of Japanese people who want the bases off Okinawa. you guys who hate us got to admit that if a war with powerful countries breaks most definitively the EU will need american troops to help. I am not talking "imperialistic" like some of you say, I am just trying to create conscience in you guys who hate USA and the US army , to be aware of this issues and how beneficial is to have us in your backyard.
you guys think that Russia and the cold war are over. well that is true, cold war is over, but Russia is still a very very very powerfull country and they alone can take over most Europe either by their missile technology, great troop numbers and huge nuclear arsenal.
think about it.
I am a firm believer in WW3. because I know and I have seen how evil people can be and how greedy and hungry for power they are as well.
Dragonpiece you're a dumbshit if you think Europe needs Americans help to defend itself. We have woven economical ties with pretty much anyone and everyone, no matter what kind of government they have. That is a policy that West Germany has developed during the cold war, in order to come to terms with East Germany and the Eastern Block. Today it has been adapted by the EU and is used on many states that you would see as a potential enemy, while we make sure that they can't attack us, because their economy will chrash if they do.
So shove your "We have to save the world" up your ass. If you really wanna deal with dangerous fanatics, you better go home because that's where you will find them sipping their tea.
Just because this guy is insane doesn't mean you should think all Americans are insane. We are not all mad men. Those of us in the North and those in the west(of the U.S.) are surprisingly good people. The Army may be full of weirdos but they don't represent the everyday American.
Just because this guy is insane doesn't mean you should think all Americans are insane. We are not all mad men. Those of us in the North and those in the west(of the U.S.) are surprisingly good people. The Army may be full of weirdos but they don't represent the everyday American.
perhaps u might want to tell me why i am insane to you? because all i have said is that i oppose the leaks because it will damage USA diplomatic relationship with other countries, will damage our "keeping secret" security for our sources as well as endanger and create more hate against our troops. I also said that I believe the world is not ready for a US no more help policy and that the war against terrorist in AF was nesscesary. what do you find insane on that?
time to update ignore list
perhaps u might want to tell me why i am insane to you?
I just think you seem a little off(maybe it's the spelling). The way you're acting here is making Americans look bad. You're offending people too.
Perhaps if you would have experience internationally and know the true facts you would re think things twice. NATO have a big big big counter-military alliance to worry about, and its called SCO (look it up) if you think no one can rise against the US, this is it. this alliance in my opinion is stronger than a NATO without the US.
every country in the world have always a complaint against us, I as a military person sometimes think you know what, lets just pull out our bases out of everywhere , stop helping the other countries and just focus on ourselves, sure some countries want that (not their governments for sure but the people , like the brussels guys from the forum here who notably hate the USA) but then what? what happens if the US influence dissapears from Europe, specially the US protection.
do you know what is a big big reason why China does not attack SK neither Japan? WE are the reason. yet you see a lot of Japanese people who want the bases off Okinawa. you guys who hate us got to admit that if a war with powerful countries breaks most definitively the EU will need american troops to help. I am not talking "imperialistic" like some of you say, I am just trying to create conscience in you guys who hate USA and the US army , to be aware of this issues and how beneficial is to have us in your backyard.
you guys think that Russia and the cold war are over. well that is true, cold war is over, but Russia is still a very very very powerfull country and they alone can take over most Europe either by their missile technology, great troop numbers and huge nuclear arsenal.
think about it.
I am a firm believer in WW3. because I know and I have seen how evil people can be and how greedy and hungry for power they are as well.
I don't like the way you belittle other countries, like US is the sole hero of the world. Guess what, they are not the hero we all think they are. I don't think the US will waste its time and resources solely to help other countries, you lot have other agendas at hand, I think its referred to as Neocolonialism. The idea of leaving other countries is a good idea imo. Let them settle their own problems, US have some issues they themselves are having trouble solving, how much more other countries.
I don't like the way you belittle other countries, like US is the sole hero of the world. Guess what, they are not the hero we all think they are. I don't think the US will waste its time and resources solely to help other countries, you lot have other agendas at hand, I think its referred to as Neocolonialism. The idea of leaving other countries is a good idea imo. Let them settle their own problems, US have some issues they themselves are having trouble solving, how much more other countries.
I wish and hope for the day we can do that and stop having bases all over. I quite frankly dont understand why the US have to keep bumping in to every world conflict . yes we are a superpower and certain things are expected from us, but still.
I just think you seem a little off(maybe it's the spelling). The way you're acting here is making Americans look bad. You're offending people too.
it's just since I posted my first post on this thread,people didnt stop attacking me about it. I by no means try and offend anyone nor any country, but when people come rude to me first , expect me to act rude back.
then the people who hate what the US is doing overseas kept taking it all on me like if its my fault but these people only know what the media says and now wikileaks, they are not there to see how it really is except for Fire the Pakistani guy but yet again I was not deployed there.
look I am not trying to offend anyone nor insult anyone (unless insulted me first) and I am not saying the world cant defend themselves without our help, Im just saying that our help sometimes can be nescesary and that the world is not all pink and roses , and that there are really big threats to be worried, see army dont make you weird.. it makes you aware.
it's just since I posted my first post on this thread,people didnt stop attacking me about it. I by no means try and offend anyone nor any country, but when people come rude to me first , expect me to act rude back.
then the people who hate what the US is doing overseas kept taking it all on me like if its my fault but these people only know what the media says and now wikileaks, they are not there to see how it really is except for Fire the Pakistani guy but yet again I was not deployed there.
look I am not trying to offend anyone nor insult anyone (unless insulted me first) and I am not saying the world cant defend themselves without our help, Im just saying that our help sometimes can be nescesary and that the world is not all pink and roses , and that there are really big threats to be worried, see army dont make you weird.. it makes you aware.
The leaks are doing that. It makes civilians aware of what is going on. Judging from your posts I highly doubt your claim.
The leaks are doing that. It makes civilians aware of what is going on. Judging from your posts I highly doubt your claim.
I agree and disagree. it does make civilians aware of what is going on but it also show things that were not supposed to be know that does not affect civilians but threatens (in US case) national security, and that is the part of the leaks I oppose.
I wish and hope for the day we can do that and stop having bases all over. I quite frankly dont understand why the US have to keep bumping in to every world conflict . yes we are a superpower and certain things are expected from us, but still.
I don't agree fully with your last statement. It's more of the US assuming that some nations are expecting something from them. They don't really have a choice on it either, once the US decides to step in and shit on the country…all that country can do is complain while the US continue to read its magazine and carries on with its shitting spree. Iraq...Iraq is one of them shit holes.
I agree and disagree. it does make civilians aware of what is going on but it also show things that were not supposed to be know that does not affect civilians but threatens (in US case) national security, and that is the part of the leaks I oppose.
You know what the problems is, The countries involved kept these public information hidden from the public. It wouldn't be "classified" if it was meant to be shared to its respective citizens isn't it? The countries involved have been naughty, they get what they deserve.
Dragonpiece, if there was nothing to be hidden that was shameful, wkikileaks would hurt noone. Perhaps the people with whom you should be upset are the ones who are so arrogantly causing the mess-ups that are being reported?
We are not in the type of country where citizens have no say in what our Gov't does in our names, but if we don't know the truth, there is no chance for us to make a difference or an informed choice. Is this the best time for the revelations? I don't know–there are arguments to be made on both sides of that question, I believe. The reality is, though, that we have no choice--they are out there and aren't going away any time soon. The cows are already running free--perhaps the issue to be dealt with best now is where do we go and what do we do from here, rather than engaging in pointless recriminations about who left the barn door open.
You seriously think there will never be another big war or conflict like WW2? How naive.
This should be fun…
There is always the chance that a mad man could get into power somewhere and attack other countries.
How? Where? When? This could only possibly happen in countries without a stringent political system, i.e third world countries. And sure, conflicts for land and influence will continue in these third world countries until they develop the economic might to ensure that continuing these conflicts is untenable. Why do you think Russia and the US never went to war? Or China and the US? Now that the nuclear option is there, war between any first world country is completely unrealistic. Sure you can point to places like North Korea and whine that "they're crazy!" but dictators like kim will never wage a war they're destined to lose. He simply flouts his nuclear option to give him an international bargaining tool. If a war did happen, nobody would benefit, millions of dollars would be wasted on either side and it would utterly destroy their international reputation. There is simply no gain.
Of course a Third World country could launch attacks on the West because of a difference of ideologies, as militants in Afghanistan did. But the economic supremacy of the Western ideology ensures that these people will be forced to conform over time as the West simply offers a better lifestyle. Eventually all the world will succumb to a generally liberal-democratic system, as the past 70 years has clearly shown. And then what? With no major ideological opponents to fight, how can there be any wars?
That threat never goes away and the fact that you think it has is naive at best.
I don't think it has, I think it will. Conflict will continue between second-third world countries and the West for the time being but it's a temporary situation.
I suppose of course that the nuclear button could always be errantly pushed over some minor conflict, but that would inevitably result in a nuclear holocaust instead of a "war".
I'm not saying I support war, I'm just saying that Human beings have always waged war and will continue to do so until the end of time.
Be more optimistic about humanity, war has always been fought for a reason. Most of the wars in history were caused by individual generals and leaders not being accountable and thus not having to justify their decisions. If a leader is accountable then they need to justify their war and it generally has to better than "they have some riches we want".
+attack my reasoning as opposed to just calling me naive. I'm not making this up on the spot, I'm drawing from several celebrated political theorists.
Perhaps if you would have experience internationally and know the true facts you would re think things twice. NATO have a big big big counter-military alliance to worry about, and its called SCO (look it up) if you think no one can rise against the US, this is it. this alliance in my opinion is stronger than a NATO without the US.
It's a defensive pact, no different than NATO. I personally doubt it will ever really be used in the same way NATO has never been used militarily in a major conflict (I think NATO's only ever been used in the Balkans).
every country in the world have always a complaint against us, I as a military person sometimes think you know what, lets just pull out our bases out of everywhere , stop helping the other countries and just focus on ourselves, sure some countries want that (not their governments for sure but the people , like the brussels guys from the forum here who notably hate the USA) but then what? what happens if the US influence dissapears from Europe, specially the US protection. We'd be perfectly fine? Who would launch a large scale attack on the EU? What with our two nuclear states.
do you know what is a big big reason why China does not attack SK neither Japan? WE are the reason.
hey, we agree one something! Though it's really the US, Russia, the UK and France.
yet you see a lot of Japanese people who want the bases off Okinawa. you guys who hate us got to admit that if a war with powerful countries breaks most definitively the EU will need american troops to help. I am not talking "imperialistic" like some of you say, I am just trying to create conscience in you guys who hate USA and the US army , to be aware of this issues and how beneficial is to have us in your backyard.
So you advocate putting a US base in every country, costing the tax payer billions of dollars, just in case they might be invaded even though there's no conceivable way the First World ones could be invaded (plus most of them can defend themselves).
you guys think that Russia and the cold war are over. well that is true, cold war is over, but Russia is still a very very very powerfull country and they alone can take over most Europe either by their missile technology, great troop numbers and huge nuclear arsenal.
think about it.
Why would they do that?
…
just because someone can do something doesn't mean they will. Cause you know, if they did pull out that massive nuclear arsenal and let off a few into Europe, England and France would immediately turn Russia into a nuclear wasteland. No victors.
I am a firm believer in WW3. because I know and I have seen how evil people can be and how greedy and hungry for power they are as well.
You people say I'm naive and yet you believe in an improbable war that would benefit nobody in the long run.
true and true. I guess my opinions have been a little more in the defensive because I am very afraid that all this good and bad leaks,shame and not shamefull ones (such as revealing secret and important key locations for USA , which now can be attacked by terrorist before they knew of them or even thought were important for us) can cause major damage to what the country as well as my personal goal been trying to do since years ago, which is improve relationships with the world and Afghanistan, I also worry a lot about the safety of my soldiers when we get re deployed in January as well as my own and I am afraid that all these leaks cause more world conflicts and such.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11980125
Well, they were able to pull it off in some part.
This should be fun… How? Where? When? This could only possibly happen in countries without a stringent political system, i.e third world countries. And sure, conflicts for land and influence will continue in these third world countries until they develop the economic might to ensure that continuing these conflicts is untenable. Why do you think Russia and the US never went to war? Or China and the US? Now that the nuclear option is there, war between any first world country is completely unrealistic. Sure you can point to places like North Korea and whine that "they're crazy!" but dictators like kim will never wage a war they're destined to lose. He simply flouts his nuclear option to give him an international bargaining tool. If a war did happen, nobody would benefit, millions of dollars would be wasted on either side and it would utterly destroy their international reputation. There is simply no gain.
Of course a Third World country could launch attacks on the West because of a difference of ideologies, as militants in Afghanistan did. But the economic supremacy of the Western ideology ensures that these people will be forced to conform over time as the West simply offers a better lifestyle. Eventually all the world will succumb to a generally liberal-democratic system, as the past 70 years has clearly shown. And then what? With no major ideological opponents to fight, how can there be any wars? I don't think it has, I think it will. Conflict will continue between second-third world countries and the West for the time being but it's a temporary situation.
I suppose of course that the nuclear button could always be errantly pushed over some minor conflict, but that would inevitably result in a nuclear holocaust instead of a "war". Be more optimistic about humanity, war has always been fought for a reason. Most of the wars in history were caused by individual generals and leaders not being accountable and thus not having to justify their decisions. If a leader is accountable then they need to justify their war and it generally has to better than "they have some riches we want".
+attack my reasoning as opposed to just calling me naive. I'm not making this up on the spot, I'm drawing from several celebrated political theorists.
It's a defensive pact, no different than NATO. I personally doubt it will ever really be used in the same way NATO has never been used militarily in a major conflict (I think NATO's only ever been used in the Balkans).
every country in the world have always a complaint against us, I as a military person sometimes think you know what, lets just pull out our bases out of everywhere , stop helping the other countries and just focus on ourselves, sure some countries want that (not their governments for sure but the people , like the brussels guys from the forum here who notably hate the USA) but then what? what happens if the US influence dissapears from Europe, specially the US protection.
We'd be perfectly fine? Who would launch a large scale attack on the EU? What with our two nuclear states.
hey, we agree one something! Though it's really the US, Russia, the UK and France. So you advocate putting a US base in every country, costing the tax payer billions of dollars, just in case they might be invaded even though there's no conceivable way the First World ones could be invaded (plus most of them can defend themselves).
Why would they do that?
…
just because someone can do something doesn't mean they will. Cause you know, if they did pull out that massive nuclear arsenal and let off a few into Europe, England and France would immediately turn Russia into a nuclear wasteland. No victors.
You people say I'm naive and yet you believe in an improbable war that would benefit nobody in the long run.
Except it's not realistic to think there won't be any wars in the future. Throughout history man always waged war and will continue to do so. That won't change.
Thank you for your brilliant counter argument and your complete failure to quote a post. Did you perhaps miss the bit in my original argument where I explained why man has continuously waged war throughout history and how this situation has changed (cause you know, history changes).
I still really like how the timing of Assange's charges couldn't be any better, and yet they (whoever 'they' are) still expect us to fall for such a ruse.
Makes you wonder just how we got to the point where it's starting to feel like a dishonest, almost evil minority got hold of so much power.
Also, I feel that it's better to have this information out now then later, because 'later' and 'stalling' sounds the same to me in these instances, at least for those who will ultimately benefit from a prolonged reprieve from shame.
If some of these people can even feel shame (I'm talking about the worst of the worst ones in this case).
I was WONDERING why Wikileaks really didn't have anything to say about Israel, despite having something to report about plenty of other countries.
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/12/07/18665978.php
That would explain this: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6BC23E20101213
There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.
Well then…
you will be surprised to know how many NATO not US only but NATO soldiers die from FF and not all of it is reported….. so, perhaps u want to re think that argument :happy:
That's my point.
They're being killed by American soldiers, even other American soldiers.
@DragonpieceX:
let me tell you something to get something straight up with you, If we wage war, if we stop war , if we expand or if we become isolated, we will ALWAYS be attacked and hated by terrorist. you want to know something else? there will be ALWAYS a war for the US and US can maintain and sustain a war for ever. war will not break the country nor economy.
I'm literally speechless. I have nothing to say to this.
I wonder how long before the praetorian guard caste of entitled self masturbatory war addicted buffoons like Dragonpiecex grow tired of civilian rule and economic whinings and pull the psuedo-fascist coup that finally makes America the military fetish nation it's been falling into since we ignored President Eisenhower's speech about the military industrial complex.
Crazy talk? Maybe, but that's about all I can think of saying in response to such terrifying delusional arrogance.
EDIT: Oh by the way I'm with him on WW3, because it's literally his attitude that will start it.
Reading Dragonpiecex's posts make me desire a huge ass wall splitting the Atlantic in two.
SCO are terrorists
Wow
This thread got knee deep into whatever fucked up form of patriotism that was
If I were Bin Laden I'd be laughing my ass off at how crazy I made the Americans get, and all they did in return was blow up a secular enemy of mine who was the leading proponent of sacreligious Ba'athists. And blow up a bunch of the hapless dumb yokels who stupidly let me stay in their backyard.
Current Location: Beach off Somalia, sipping gin and juice (laid back).
what happens if the US influence dissapears from Europe, specially the US protection.
You underestimate the political ties and overall strength of the EU.
I am just trying to create conscience in you guys who hate USA and the US army
Has anyone here actually noted a dislike for America?
Seems to me that everyone here is outlining the issues America has with interfering with others countries through political pressure or physical manpower.
be aware of this issues and how beneficial is to have us in your backyard.
Name 10 benefits worthy of the aggravation we've had from getting mixed up in the iraq war.
you guys think that Russia and the cold war are over. well that is true, cold war is over, but Russia is still a very very very powerfull country and they alone can take over most Europe either by their missile technology, great troop numbers and huge nuclear arsenal.
Russias barely holding itself together due to the massive levels of corruption. Saying that its capable of beating even half of Europe is beyond a fucking joke.
Maybe if you did your homework you'd know the entire air, navy and ground sections are made up of relics from the cold war before the money dried out. They aren't a threat to any of the key players on the political chessboard any more.
I am a firm believer in WW3. because I know and I have seen how evil people can be and how greedy and hungry for power they are as well.
Their is a difference between evil and necessary evil. The first most likely to be spawned from Iran or north Korea, the latter brought on from all the superpowers bickering over resources at the north pole.
our activities in Afghanistan,Iraq and now the drones in Yemen have allowed americans to live a more peaceful life because if oyu have noticed it in almost 10 years there has been NO attacks, yea sure maybe 1 or 2 failed attack but nothing in large scale. why? because we are bringing war to the terrorist.
Where were the major attacks before that?
Why do you suddenly count 9-11 as a pattern we were living through that suddenly stopped?
so while you sleep at night and complaint in the morning drinking your cofee in front of a computer about how the $$ went down or the loss of jobs, we are wasting our lives (cuz that is what i feel when i hear of americans who express themselves like you )
Guess what. The country and it's economy is more fucking important then you.
When did you're psychology as a soldier twist from serving the country to the country needing to shut up and deal with the weight of war.
You've managed to get everything ass fucking backwards, congratulations.
Nothing frightens me more then our own military talking like this, staring back with so much goddamned condescension and frustration at the average American's plight, you literally think you're the most important part of this equation. I'd be more mad if I didn't know much of we same average Americans have been busy enabling and encouraging that mindset in the first place.
enters thread for the first time
sees Jerk and Smudger shooting down idiocy
business as usual i see… leaves
what happens if the US influence dissapears from Europe, specially the US protection.
How much influence does the US have in Europe anyway??
I have a feeling the world will keep turning if whatever "influence" we have in Europe disappears.
I was WONDERING why Wikileaks really didn't have anything to say about Israel, despite having something to report about plenty of other countries.
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/12/07/18665978.php
That would explain this: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6BC23E20101213
Once again Israel shows why it's the most competent world power. While all the other countries were uniting in a pointless smear campaign that will only end up being a PR disaster, it took the cold, calculated approach and simply used bribery to keep their names out of it. They're still gonna be exposed apparently but they at least now have more prep time for counter-measures.
You know, I have heard of soldiers being brainwashed into thinking that evolution is bad, communism is bad (this includes the bullshit 'No free hand outs' definition) and that only god is the true way to victory.
They even took away some psychiatrists and replaced them with priests, and soldiers that were Christian were treated more favorably and given promotions.
DragonxPiece sounds like one of those soldiers.
Goes searching on the internet for that news program that talked about it
Also, while I only know so much about what's right and wrong with Israel, the shit they've been doing just really makes me want to shout "YOU SUCK YOU HOLOCAUST EXPLOITING FREAKS*!!"
Of course, now I'm anti-semitic now.
Doesn't help that they tried to censor one of their professors for speaking out against the government and that they only want to give first class citizenship to 'true jews.'
EDIT: Welp, couldn't find it, though I did get a laugh out of this site called Jihadwatch that linked NPR to Hamas/CAIR. Also, most NPR articles I could find with my search terms in mind brings up the firing of that one guy.
a nice documentary about wikileaks, not only cable-gate but from start till split in wikileaks team. http://svtplay.se/v/2264028/wikirebels___the_documentary?cb,a1364145,1,f,-1/pb,a1364142,1,f,-1/pl,v,,2264028/sb,p118750,1,f,-1
