Its not Confirmed, Just Fan Speculation…
What isn't confirmed the Fruit growing after death that is - Roger or Shanks having a DF - not confirmed.
Legacies, Parallels, and Fate
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Pell survived because he is a Falcon - Stop using him as a bad example.
The Peregrine Falcon reaches faster speeds than any other animal on the planet when performing the stoop,which involves soaring to a great height and then diving steeply at speeds of over 320 km/h (200 mph)
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What isn't confirmed the Fruit growing after death that is - Roger or Shanks having a DF - not confirmed.
Im saying it was never mentioned that Roger and Shanks were DF user
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Well even if the hat was Roger's originally and he looks similar to luffy a bit… I still think Luffy is more like Shanks than to Roger. Some people pointed it already out. Roger and Ace were behaving different and more hot heated than Luffy.
And as someone mentioned... i wouldn't be suprised if Roger had the Gum Gum, even if it would eb too much in my eyes and first we have to kow about how DF work after the user have died.
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Im saying it was never mentioned that Roger and Shanks were DF user
Yeppers complete speculation at this stage - but open to discussion
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Well even if the hat was Roger's originally and he looks similar to luffy a bit… I still think Luffy is more like Shanks than to Roger. Some people pointed it already out. Roger and Ace were behaving different and more hot heated than Luffy.
And as someone mentioned... i wouldn't be suprised if Roger had the Gum Gum, even if it would eb too much in my eyes and first we have to kow about how DF work after the user have died.
I'd say pre time skip luffy was similar to none, he was crazy as hell and would just do anything to get what he wanted, i.e. fight for cp9 for robin without thinking it through how to do it the best way.
So i don't think shanks is like that, shanks is a smart pirate, at least that how he has been reacting.
but after the timeskip, i think you're right and that luffy has become a bit mature and more like shanks. -
I've seen that Roger and Luffy having the same fruit disscusion is going on… I don't like idea they are, and I hope Roger was DF-less fighter like Garp..
I saw Buggy arguments and didn't see this one!
also a few pages backwards and forwards could be noteworthy :unsure:
Well, I really hope that Roger having DF wouldn't be concealed from his crew…
But again, he could've eaten it after this event...
Anyway, this is argument I use to think Roger wasn't ability user...And is guy in bottom middle panel wearing shirt that has curves like Buggy's fruit???or is it my head that looks to much in irelevant detailes :D
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If Luffy truly had the same fruit as Roger,
wouldn't any of the older generation actually have mentioned it by now?
I mean, Garp, Kuraha, Crocus and probably all admirals knew Roger. But no one ever bothered to bring this (coincendence) up?I'm guessing the same thing can be said about Luff's Strawhat.
Roger probably didn't wear it all the time. Or only at the beginning.
Xbox: Gaiyae Psn id: Gaiyae
3_ds FC:_ 3609 - 1026 - 9535
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come on people, ofcourse roger didn't have the same df as luffy.. because
1. oda is genius and god -> therefore he can't make that dull story.
2. well.. the first point just said it all. -
If Luffy truly had the same fruit as Roger,
wouldn't any of the older generation actually have mentioned it by now?
I mean, Garp, Kuraha, Crocus and probably all admirals knew Roger. But no one ever bothered to bring this (coincendence) up?I'm guessing the same thing can be said about Luff's Strawhat.
Roger probably didn't wear it all the time. Or only at the beginning.Yes in real life it would have been brought up.
Like Robin would have discussed her past with the Crew.
Shanks would have told Luffy he sailed on Rogers ship as an apprentice.
Luffy would have mentioned his Father was Dragon.
Rayleigh would have mentioned where the Strawhat came from.
Ace and Luffy would have raised a toast to their long lost brother Sabo when on the Merry.Important things - and lets be honest here Roger having or not having a DF is important - are brought up when the time is right. Regardless how much sense they would have made being brought up before hand - or how much trouble they could have averted. This is about the story of Luffy and the Strawhat crew and their Dreams.
If Roger had a DF especially the Gomu DF -
Do you think from what we know about him he would have used it like Luffy doing crazy things?
Or Just used it's ability to stop bullets and melee blows from hurting?I would go the latter while he may have been able to stretch here there and everywhere - CoC Haki and just fighting would be enough for Roger based on what we know.
Luffy got the DF as a child - ergo he used the ability in a very child like manner. Stretching and silly names - just imagine Whitebeard's personality having the Gomu DF instead of the Quake fruit can you see him doing Luffy style attacks?
A man like Roger may have been embarrassed to have the Gomu fruit and hidden it away - just using its natural defensive abilites and relying on his own offensive abilities and fighting nature.
Sorry for overthinking it - as I said gut feeling - just can't shake it.
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You are ignoring characterization.
Like Robin would have discussed her past with the Crew.
No she wouldn't. Because she wasn't that close to them before EL. She called Luffy Captain-san, Usopp Long nose-san, etc. At that point she didn't want them to feel sorry for her.
Shanks would have told Luffy he sailed on Rogers ship as an apprentice.
No he wouldn't. He is not the type to boast about being on Roger's ship. He want people to judge him by his own ability.
Luffy would have mentioned his Father was Dragon.
No he wouldn't. He is stupid, carefree and absent-minded and didn't even know he had one. He never wondered if he had. And Dragon hid his identity from Luffy for his sake.
Rayleigh would have mentioned where the Strawhat came from.
No he wouldn't. Why should he? Doing that may have negative effect on Luffy.
Ace and Luffy would have raised a toast to their long lost brother Sabo when on the Merry.
Not mentioning him didn't make any less sense than mentioning him. It not more, because speaking of dead people can be pretty awkward.
Important things - and lets be honest here Roger having or not having a DF is important - are brought up when the time is right. Regardless how much sense they would have made being brought up before hand - or how much trouble they could have averted. This is about the story of Luffy and the Strawhat crew and their Dreams.
Extremely bad writing.
Luffy got the DF as a child - ergo he used the ability in a very child like manner. Stretching and silly names - just imagine Whitebeard's personality having the Gomu DF instead of the Quake fruit can you see him doing Luffy style attacks?
If WB had Gomu fruit, he would have his own attacks and people would still know it.
A man like Roger may have been embarrassed to have the Gomu fruit and hidden it away - just using its natural defensive abilites and relying on his own offensive abilities and fighting nature.
You mean Roger was a Hypocrite while Whitebeard wasn't?
This is even worse than AlmostLegendary who ignored Zoro's characterization to make theory like Zoro would stab Mihawk in the back.
@Cymelion:Yes in real life it would have been brought up.
Like Robin would have discussed her past with the Crew.
Shanks would have told Luffy he sailed on Rogers ship as an apprentice.
Luffy would have mentioned his Father was Dragon.
Rayleigh would have mentioned where the Strawhat came from.
Ace and Luffy would have raised a toast to their long lost brother Sabo when on the Merry.Important things - and lets be honest here Roger having or not having a DF is important - are brought up when the time is right. Regardless how much sense they would have made being brought up before hand - or how much trouble they could have averted. This is about the story of Luffy and the Strawhat crew and their Dreams.
If Roger had a DF especially the Gomu DF -
Do you think from what we know about him he would have used it like Luffy doing crazy things?
Or Just used it's ability to stop bullets and melee blows from hurting?I would go the latter while he may have been able to stretch here there and everywhere - CoC Haki and just fighting would be enough for Roger based on what we know.
Luffy got the DF as a child - ergo he used the ability in a very child like manner. Stretching and silly names - just imagine Whitebeard's personality having the Gomu DF instead of the Quake fruit can you see him doing Luffy style attacks?
A man like Roger may have been embarrassed to have the Gomu fruit and hidden it away - just using its natural defensive abilites and relying on his own offensive abilities and fighting nature.
Sorry for overthinking it - as I said gut feeling - just can't shake it.
5hfYJsQAhl0
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Are you trying to convince yourself there Cymelion?
You're gut feeling is telling you something the manga hasn't hinted at?
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Yes in real life it would have been brought up.
Like Robin would have discussed her past with the Crew.
Shanks would have told Luffy he sailed on Rogers ship as an apprentice.
Luffy would have mentioned his Father was Dragon.
Rayleigh would have mentioned where the Strawhat came from.
Ace and Luffy would have raised a toast to their long lost brother Sabo when on the Merry.Important things - and lets be honest here Roger having or not having a DF is important - are brought up when the time is right. Regardless how much sense they would have made being brought up before hand - or how much trouble they could have averted. This is about the story of Luffy and the Strawhat crew and their Dreams.
If Roger had a DF especially the Gomu DF -
Do you think from what we know about him he would have used it like Luffy doing crazy things?
Or Just used it's ability to stop bullets and melee blows from hurting?I would go the latter while he may have been able to stretch here there and everywhere - CoC Haki and just fighting would be enough for Roger based on what we know.
Luffy got the DF as a child - ergo he used the ability in a very child like manner. Stretching and silly names - just imagine Whitebeard's personality having the Gomu DF instead of the Quake fruit can you see him doing Luffy style attacks?
A man like Roger may have been embarrassed to have the Gomu fruit and hidden it away - just using its natural defensive abilites and relying on his own offensive abilities and fighting nature.
Sorry for overthinking it - as I said gut feeling - just can't shake it.
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Are you trying to convince yourself there Cymelion?
You're gut feeling is telling you something the manga hasn't hinted at?
Naw don't need to convince myself - As I said - Sad if it turned out true - not disappointed if turned out false.
Just using the parallels that had been popping up between Luffy and Roger - then thinking that if it continued it would be Roger having had the Gomu DF ability.
Sea - keeps retreading the same argument - people would say something then when given examples of past incidents has the same argument as I do just worded differently - that until the time comes that something is revealed in the manga we didn't/can't know for sure.
Just saying someone would have said Luffy had the same power as Roger when all throughout the OP universe we have been exposed to is people being known for their name - representation (Beards Hair Objects) or Deeds suddenly Oda would make people famous for their DF. Just seems odd.
But Sea is steadfast against it and you know what I applaud him for it he is putting up a very well thought out argument at times even if he just retreads the same point at times. We can always agree to disagree at any time I don't need him to suddenly decide that I am right just like he doesn't need me to do the same - this would be a very boring forum if we all agreed with each other - at least this way we get to put both sides of the argument out there and back it up with Lore and previous issues and other people can throw in their 2 cents as well.
People are being shown sections of the Manga they may have forgotten or not even seen. Perhaps someone else will get a better Idea of what I am trying to get at and explain it better - perhaps someone will better present Sea's point of view as well.
Or this topic could die in 2 pages and not be brought up again for a very long time. All in all the one thing regardless of weither it is or is not good storytelling - the potential is there based on similarities between Luffy and Roger for them to have shared the Gomu DF power - I agree it would be a little lame and a bit of a letdown if I was right but at least I am prepared to entertain the idea of it.
Also as a side point - simply insulting someone doesn't make your point accurate or valid.
If Sea wants to get childish over anything I write posting youtube videos or using swear words it doesn't phase me but it makes me disappointed that someone with such a fine amount of knowledge has a less educated ways of disagreeing with someone.
It's a shame you think you have something to prove so much so you mock someone with such ease I hope you find the strength to one day be a better person Sea. -
Remember that Gan Fall said he felt something was similar between Luffy and Roger. When Robin told him Luffy's whole name, he realized they had a same letter in their names, nothing more. Well, this only proves that Roger didn't have the Gomu Gomu fruit at that time, but I think he had his own unique ability that allowed him to reach the golden bell.
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suddenly Oda would make people famous for their DF. Just seems odd.
Firefist Ace?
16chars
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Firefist Ace?
16chars
That would be a name. Its like saying Luffy is famous for his hat. The hat makes him recognizable, his actions have made him famous. In the case of Ace its a bit different because he uses his DF for his actions, but the abilities are (I think) second to what he does.
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Oh okay. i misunderstood what he was saying. Now I see what he means.
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I don't really see anything as luck. There is just a flow of existence based on the variables of individuals correlating to the environment.
When you start to break down the instances of life into statistics then even the most menial things are of a rare occurrence.
Even a flip of a coin or a roll of a dice is based on variables of force, rotation, angle of release, collision ect. The only way computers can give the impression of randomization is based on a sequence of variables the programmer has the computer calculate in a repeating pattern. The more complicated the pattern the more like random occurrence it appears to the naked eye.
This is what fate is to me. Mere existence. Even the choices we make are variables of our predetermined process of thought based on experiences and innate personality. To not be within fates grasp is to take yourself out of life completely. I.E. Recluse/A shut in. But even if an individual becomes stagnant from a Shut In life style the flow of existence still moves around them.
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Just saying someone would have said Luffy had the same power as Roger when all throughout the OP universe we have been exposed to is people being known for their name - representation (Beards Hair Objects) or Deeds suddenly Oda would make people famous for their DF. Just seems odd.
Listen, even if it's not the DF that he was famous for, his fame would make the DF famous. Simple. The similarity being brought up is totally natural.
@Cymelion:Naw don't need to convince myself - As I said - Sad if it turned out true - not disappointed if turned out false.
Just using the parallels that had been popping up between Luffy and Roger - then thinking that if it continued it would be Roger having had the Gomu DF ability.
Sea - keeps retreading the same argument - people would say something then when given examples of past incidents has the same argument as I do just worded differently - that until the time comes that something is revealed in the manga we didn't/can't know for sure.
Just saying someone would have said Luffy had the same power as Roger when all throughout the OP universe we have been exposed to is people being known for their name - representation (Beards Hair Objects) or Deeds suddenly Oda would make people famous for their DF. Just seems odd.
But Sea is steadfast against it and you know what I applaud him for it he is putting up a very well thought out argument at times even if he just retreads the same point at times. We can always agree to disagree at any time I don't need him to suddenly decide that I am right just like he doesn't need me to do the same - this would be a very boring forum if we all agreed with each other - at least this way we get to put both sides of the argument out there and back it up with Lore and previous issues and other people can throw in their 2 cents as well.
People are being shown sections of the Manga they may have forgotten or not even seen. Perhaps someone else will get a better Idea of what I am trying to get at and explain it better - perhaps someone will better present Sea's point of view as well.
Or this topic could die in 2 pages and not be brought up again for a very long time. All in all the one thing regardless of weither it is or is not good storytelling - the potential is there based on similarities between Luffy and Roger for them to have shared the Gomu DF power - I agree it would be a little lame and a bit of a letdown if I was right but at least I am prepared to entertain the idea of it.
Also as a side point - simply insulting someone doesn't make your point accurate or valid.
If Sea wants to get childish over anything I write posting youtube videos or using swear words it doesn't phase me but it makes me disappointed that someone with such a fine amount of knowledge has a less educated ways of disagreeing with someone.
It's a shame you think you have something to prove so much so you mock someone with such ease I hope you find the strength to one day be a better person Sea.Ahahahaha, since when gut feeling was an argument? You cannot come up with any rational excuse for it and you know it's bad writing, and it has been pointed out to totally contradict with what happened, and you still insist on believing it has a chance to happen, and you demand not to be ridiculed? Like, for some stress you have something in your brain misfire and then gain some dumb misconception completely illogical or out of the blue like "Roger had the same shoe size with Luffy", "Oda will make a bad move and give us terrible writing", "One Piece will have a let down". There is no real reasonable back up to think it has chance to happen, but you do , then post it like valid, possible theory, and you demand not to be made fun of?
Yo, I got the gut feeling that Blackbeard will become a girl and kill every SH at the end after Catarina betrayed him and fell in love with Usopp. Forget rational argument, it's my gut feeling that Oda will get his head hit by a truck and write that. I am sure Oda can totally pull it off without contradicting himself. To hell with reason, I am entitled to my opinion guys.
I don't really see anything as luck. There is just a flow of existence based on the variables of individuals correlating to the environment.
When you start to break down the instances of life into statistics then even the most menial things are of a rare occurrence.
Even a flip of a coin or a roll of a dice is based on variables of force, rotation, angle of release, collision ect. The only way computers can give the impression of randomization is based on a sequence of variables the programmer has the computer calculate in a repeating pattern. The more complicated the pattern the more like random occurrence it appears to the naked eye.
This is what fate is to me. Mere existence. Even the choices we make are variables of our predetermined process of thought based on experiences and innate personality. To not be within fates grasp is to take yourself out of life completely. I.E. Recluse/A shut in. But even if an individual becomes stagnant from a Shut In life style the flow of existence still moves around them.
Thanks you for your preaching, professor Mingo. Here is the thread for you:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=25149
If Oda says there is fate in One Piece, then there is fate in One Piece. It is not real world. -
any written story always has this fate destiny etc.. coz the writer will have planned some course of action to the main char. random things happen only in God's country
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Naw don't need to convince myself - As I said - Sad if it turned out true - not disappointed if turned out false.
I was beign sarcastic there as you aren't doing a very good job of convincing us its even a possibility.
Just using the parallels that had been popping up between Luffy and Roger - then thinking that if it continued it would be Roger having had the Gomu DF ability.
See if Oda took it that far its no longer a parallel relationship; Luffy would just be Roger 2.0.
Sea - keeps retreading the same argument - people would say something then when given examples of past incidents has the same argument as I do just worded differently - that until the time comes that something is revealed in the manga we didn't/can't know for sure.
Sea is being a bit rude but your comparative examples were bad. None of those issues like Robins past, where the hat came from, etc. ever came in those characters conversation. Roger explained that Roger turned himself in and that he knew about the void century. Bringing up "Oh and that hat Shanks gave you was actually Roger's too" would have been completely illogical and an irrelevant.
Luffy being compared to Roger has been done multiple times. Had they the same fruit that defininitely would have been brought up by Buggy, Kureha, Ganfal, Garp, Rayleigh etc. when they noticed how similar Luffy is to Roger. Shanks would have said something when Luffy first ate the fruit.
Just saying someone would have said Luffy had the same power as Roger when all throughout the OP universe we have been exposed to is people being known for their name - representation (Beards Hair Objects) or Deeds suddenly Oda would make people famous for their DF. Just seems odd.
Its the fruit that would be famous. Would have heard people comment on some punk/rookie/kid/amatuer/poser using the former Pirate King's fruit by somebody by now if it were a remote possibility. There is no way the connection would not have been made when somebody who knew of Roger saw a display of Luffy's powers.
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I don't think Roger had a DF because an early flashback sounded like Buggy was the first person on Roger's ship to have a DF.
@Stephen:<<buggy: the="" pirate="" apprentice="" buggy<br="">will now eat the Devil Fruit!!
<<pirates: dahahahahaha,="" you="" kids="" never="" bother="" thinking="" things="" through!!<br="">I'm impressed, Buggy!!
Whoaaa, he ate it!!!
Hey Buggy, is your body any different?< <buggy: nah…="" not="" at="" all...<br=""><<pirates: what="" the="" hell,="" was="" it="" a="" fake?<br="">I guess the Devil Fruits really are just a rumor after all.
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/op-v03c019.txt</pirates:></buggy:></pirates:></buggy:> -
I don't think Roger had a DF because an early flashback sounded like Buggy was the first person on Roger's ship to have a DF. Originally Posted by Stephen
_<<buggy: the="" pirate="" apprentice="" buggy<br="">will now eat the Devil Fruit!!<<pirates: dahahahahaha,="" you="" kids="" never="" bother="" thinking="" things="" through!!<br="">I'm impressed, Buggy!!
Whoaaa, he ate it!!!
Hey Buggy, is your body any different?< <buggy: nah…="" not="" at="" all...<br=""><<pirates: what="" the="" hell,="" was="" it="" a="" fake?<br="">I guess the Devil Fruits really are just a rumor after all.
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen…op-v03c019.txt</pirates:></buggy:></pirates:></buggy:>_That was excellent, so unless Oda fucks up, NO ONE on Roger's ship had a devil fruit until Buggy.
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That really is a good point. If Oda does reveal roger to have a fruit I wonder how he will S-BS his way out of this one. We know for sure Silvers, Shanks, and Crocus had no fruit, so Roger very well may have not had one considering the sword and gun. Though of course we see lots of fruit users with swords and guns.
Anyway, if Roger's fruit was the "talk talk" fruit and he could hear the voices of all things like having inanimate objects talk to him and give him specific information, then maybe his fruit was just descret enough that his fodder members didn't realize he had a fruit at all.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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That really is a good point. If Oda does reveal roger to have a fruit I wonder how he will S-BS his way out of this one.
Simply by saying that Roger had eaten a fruit after Baggy. (and just for the precision, I hope that Roger didn't eat any fruit.)
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@Sea:
Ahahahaha, since when gut feeling was an argument? You cannot come up with any rational excuse for it and you know it's bad writing, and it has been pointed out to totally contradict with what happened, and you still insist on believing it has a chance to happen, and you demand not to be ridiculed? Like, for some stress you have something in your brain misfire and then gain some dumb misconception completely illogical or out of the blue like "Roger had the same shoe size with Luffy", "Oda will make a bad move and give us terrible writing", "One Piece will have a let down". There is no real reasonable back up to think it has chance to happen, but you do , then post it like valid, possible theory, and you demand not to be made fun of?
You know I remember a time not too long ago where there was an Argument over Moriah being killed off - and not a fleeting moment either. Last we saw Moriah had been beaten to within an inch of his life and people came here telling everyone Moriah was going to survive.
They came up with theories involving Moriah flying - teleporting away - suddenly going super seyen (spelling) or what have you.
Members of this forum some senior and long standing others recent additions myself included all shot down theories and explained that Doflamingo the way he was written was not the one to let Moriah live - the WG confirmed Moriah dead in the papers - to all intents and purposes it was a closed case for many people who were happy to bring up Moriah surviving would be bad writting.
You were in the Moriah is dead camp to my knowledge Sea and put forward a few cutting jibes and decently presented arguments.What happened? Moriah was saved by Abselom(spelling) and is possibly being fixed up by the greatest Doctor ever(according to chopper) Doflamingo turned around and didn't give a crap that Moriah had dissapeared - didn't care about his reputation and basically told the WG to go screw themselves.
So we went from Moriah having NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE BAD WRITTING IF HE DOES. To oh well it makes sense now - and yeah it was hinted at with Perona and Mihawk.
Shoot me down if you want to but don't forget you too have been on the major cockup side Sea.
The similarities were listed between Luffy and Roger they're not Iron Clad and I even acknowledge while Luffy's ambition is the same their personalities are different. My gut feeling is just as valid as those who believed Moriah had survived - weither you choose to recognise that facet and that facet alone is up to you - I can't explain it any simpler. -
You know I remember a time not too long ago where there was an Argument over Moriah being killed off - and not a fleeting moment either. Last we saw Moriah had been beaten to within an inch of his life and people came here telling everyone Moriah was going to survive.
They came up with theories involving Moriah flying - teleporting away - suddenly going super seyen (spelling) or what have you.
Members of this forum some senior and long standing others recent additions myself included all shot down theories and explained that Doflamingo the way he was written was not the one to let Moriah live - the WG confirmed Moriah dead in the papers - to all intents and purposes it was a closed case for many people who were happy to bring up Moriah surviving would be bad writting.
You were in the Moriah is dead camp to my knowledge Sea and put forward a few cutting jibes and decently presented arguments.What happened? Moriah was saved by Abselom(spelling) and is possibly being fixed up by the greatest Doctor ever(according to chopper) Doflamingo turned around and didn't give a crap that Moriah had dissapeared - didn't care about his reputation and basically told the WG to go screw themselves.
So we went from Moriah having NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE BAD WRITTING IF HE DOES. To oh well it makes sense now - and yeah it was hinted at with Perona and Mihawk.
Shoot me down if you want to but don't forget you too have been on the major cockup side Sea.
The similarities were listed between Luffy and Roger they're not Iron Clad and I even acknowledge while Luffy's ambition is the same their personalities are different. My gut feeling is just as valid as those who believed Moriah had survived - weither you choose to recognise that facet and that facet alone is up to you - I can't explain it any simpler.Haha, no, I never said it would be bad writing if Moriah survived. I just said he was more likely dead than alive.
http://www.apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1730624&postcount=32
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?p=1733123#post1733123
But I can tell that Roger has zero chance to have the Rubber fruit. That would be self-contradicting with the whole series.
I respect others' opinions when they have logic to begin with. That was why I never bashed anyone who believed Moria was alive. Gut feeling? No, Zik put up very logical and reasonable argument to prove Moria's alive.
I wouldn't insult SGRaaize for not liking the destiny thing either, 2 years ago I also disliked it a lot. Nor would I insult Ryuksgelus for liking the end of the war. -
@Sea:
Thanks you for your preaching, professor Mingo. Here is the thread for you:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=25149
If Oda says there is fate in One Piece, then there is fate in One Piece. It is not real world.Funny how you think I'm being overally descriptive when I choose the route of minimalism. Instead of going through a thread that had existed for a while and quoting every single thing and making a reply to I just summed up my thoughts in a single post.
If you want me to I can just as easily make the OP connections that Oda writes to show the type of fate I described that I omitted from the original post.
Edit:
The type of fate you are asking about in that thread you linked is more of the Straight line "This is how its going to be and nothing can stop you from making it happen that way" approach to fate.
The basic building blocks of fate is that things are out of our control. When you look at the larger picture there is so much moving and happening at the same time that so many things are out of our control. The place you work at you may have gone out of your way and made the decision to apply but if you actually got the job was out of your hands. You just statistically been a 1/100,000 to have gotten the job.
I'm not saying that there is a single path for everyone set in stone. My take on fate is that as you become more involved with the world around you you are only adding more variables that are out of your control and this will lead you to a direction and the actual choices you can make are limited to the predetermined thought processes you possess. Your values and desires will make that flow appear a single stream.
And Oda may write a manga but his values of Fate are derived from the REAL WORLD Sea. The more you can understand about the real world and Oda himself the more you can understand his intentions when writing.
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@Sea:
Haha, no, I never said it would be bad writing if Moriah survived. I just said he was more likely dead than alive.
http://www.apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1730624&postcount=32
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?p=1733123#post1733123
But I can tell that Roger has zero chance to have the Rubber fruit. That would be self-contradicting with the whole series.
I respect others' opinions when they have logic to begin with. That was why I never bashed anyone who believed Moria was alive. Gut feeling? No, Zik put up very logical and reasonable argument.
I wouldn't insult SGRaaize for not liking the destiny thing either, 2 years ago I also disliked it a lot. Nor would I insult Ryuksgelus for liking the end of the war.I never said you called it "Bad Writting" I said many people were so much so it started to get on the nerves of Ahogie.
http://www.apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1730499&postcount=2
http://www.apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1731078&postcount=135
http://www.apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1730839&postcount=101
http://www.apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1730527&postcount=164 posts showing you did think that he was Dead - granted you agreed with JD initially that there was a small chance of him surviving but afterwards sided more with him being dead.
Look as I said this is not something I want - nor will I make signature with a ? next to it or jump up and down trying to make you believe me.
It's fair enough to dissagree with something but when you start attacking personally pays to remember you were in a similar position.Roger and Luffy having the same DF - is unlikely but with all the similarities shared between Roger and Luffy it is not beyond the realms of possibility. That is all I am trying to say - admitidly we both went a little fan fic going too deep into this to prove each others side. Trying to get inside the minds of characters that only exist in the mind of Oda is fraught with problems for that I am sorry I thought I too had learnt my lesson from Moriah.
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I love how you are bringing up the Moria discussion to prove your theory has a chance in hell as if they were of the same category.
It doesn't.
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@Sea:
I love how you are bringing up the Moria discussion to prove your theory has a chance in hell as if they were of the same category.
It doesn't.
Topic/Actually it was brought up to illustrate that no matter how sure someone is even long standing members of this forum they can and do get it wrong sometimes. That even what is claimed to be iron clad can be disproven, that when it is disproven is even written in such a way people accepted it.
And also to make sure you were reminded you to picked the wrong side in something, granted you were no where near as bad as some - even I myself made some rather stupid comments in that thread.Again you keep treating my theory as something I WANT TO HAPPEN when from the start I have said I didn't want it to - even that I would be dissapointed if it did - it is something though that you have to consider is a possibility. Based purely on the succession of similarities between Roger and Luffy.
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Actually it was brought up to illustrate that no matter how sure someone is even long standing members of this forum they can and do get it wrong sometimes. That even what is claimed to be iron clad can be disproven, that when it is disproven is even written in such a way people accepted it.
And also to make sure you were reminded you to picked the wrong side in something, granted you were no where near as bad as some - even I myself made some rather stupid comments in that thread.Again you keep treating my theory as something I WANT TO HAPPEN when from the start I have said I didn't want it to - even that I would be dissapointed if it did - it is something though that you have to consider is a possibility. Based purely on the succession of similarities between Roger and Luffy.
It has been proven to not be a possibility, unless Oda is completely out of his mind. I was 80% sure about Moria's death, but I am 100% sure on this one. It's real terrible writing unlike the Moria's survival. I have never been wrong when it comes to whether something is good or bad writing.
The reasons you put up to prove it's a possibility were stupid, like saying in real life Robin would have discussed her past with someone she has not wholly trusted and completely ignored her characterization, or Roger would hid his DF power while WB didn't.
Funny how after every single one of your reasons was crushed, you are now resorting only to gut feeling to believe it is a possibility.
I never picked on those who made silly theory but added "I know this is stupid but maybe…" or "Pardon my stupidity but I think...". I just hate those who made terrible theories but still think they are reasonable and demand not to be ridiculed. -
@Cyan:
I like how everything that's happened since Sabaody two years ago was made possible only by Teach getting incredibly lucky that Ace went for his head.
while i guess this is true, we did get a good enough explanaition on Ace's attitude that would make it not "fate". it was simply ace being himself, any other action would have been a contradiction to his character.
Also, its impossible to have fateless and destine…less.. story plots. cause its not the spur of the moment you get in real life, its written out. no many how you write it, people will find something about fate or destiny.
I shouldn't post in this thread because i see no point in talking about fate destiny and stuff. there will alyways be someone who believes in one or the other. its kidna like talking about religion
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@Sea:
It has been proven to not be a possibility, unless Oda is completely out of his mind. It's real terrible writing unlike the Moria's survival. I have never been wrong when it comes to whether something is good or bad writing.
Big call there - but each to their own.
The reasons you put up to prove it's a possibility were stupid, like saying in real life Robin would have discussed her past with someone she has not wholly trusted and completely ignored her characterization.
Funny how after every single one of your reasons was crushed, you are now resorting only to gut feeling to believe it is a possibility.
I never picked on those who made silly theory but added "I know this is stupid but maybe…" or "Pardon my stupidity but I think...". I just hate those who made terrible theories but still think they are reasonable and demand not to be ridiculed.Actually I went back and thought I clarified it more as a gut feeling a lot earlier then I did. So yeah I imagine this would have gone over a lot more easier if I had said "Gut Feeling" instead of "I bet" at the start … forgive me?
While regardless I'm going to keep expecting it to be announced - I wont ram it down anyones throat. I still think it's an interesting concept but I will respect that you don't. You haven't convinced me enough that it can't be worked around by a wordsmith in Oda's league but you have convinced me enough that my arguments were not as strong as I thought them to be.
Hows that?
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Hah, I said it earlier. Even if Buggy didn't want to tell Luffy his captain had the Rubber fruit, he would still make a surprise face when he heard Luffy had that fruit. His characterization would not allow him to act otherwise.
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How are you going to explain that still face, that calm attitude?
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If Roger had the rubber fruit and no one, until the chapter it is revealed that Roger had the rubber fruit, had said anything about it when meeting Luffy, it would be very surprising.
I don't know whether it would be "bad writing" or not, because I am not a writer, however, it would be very surprising. Would seem very unnecessary.
The thing about the strawhat is not too bad because of what Rayleigh said upon meeting Luffy, it does explain it, even though I'm sure the majority of people (reading the manga) thought it was a reference to Shanks.
If I recall correctly, it was something like: "that strawhat certainly suits a fearless man like yourself."
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@Sea:
Hah, I said it earlier. Even if Buggy didn't want to tell Luffy his captain had the Rubber fruit, he would still make a surprise face when he heard Luffy had that fruit. His characterization would not allow him to act otherwise.
How are you going to explain that still face, that calm attitude?
O.o
Ok I've already conceeded we can agree to disagree - but now you're asking me to further try convincing you?
I can explain it the way I would or what I think is being implied.
Weither it is acceptable to you or not and just going to have you go off on another tangent is pretty meh to me I am stuck at work for another 2-3 hours.1 Buggy - Luffy interaction was neigh 10 years ago
2 Buggy being freaked out at a DF when he has one himself would be weird - freaking out because it was the Gomu ability would raise too many flags.
3 Very few facts about Roger have been revealed - hence he can have things added to him at any time if it supports current ideas he did not have 10 years ago.The only way I can forsee it being possible is Roger only using the Gomu DF ability to absorb Melee blows that were no Haki or Bullets and it was not common knowledge he had the ability.(Ergo he didn't show it off)
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Roger only using the Gomu DF ability to absorb Melee blows that were no Haki or Bullets and it was not common knowledge he had the ability.(Ergo he didn't show it off)
You are insane. That doesn't make any slightest sense and serves absolute no purpose.
Oh forget it. You can say each to his own or whatever, I am not seriously responding to you anymore.
So let me imagine. After getting his head hit by a truck, Oda decides to let Roger have the Gomu Gomu fruit. He then decides to get the Buggy arc redone to suit common sense.!
If Roger had the rubber fruit and no one, until the chapter it is revealed that Roger had the rubber fruit, had said anything about it when meeting Luffy, it would be very surprising.
I don't know whether it would be "bad writing" or not, because I am not a writer, however, it would be very surprising. Would seem very unnecessary.
The thing about the strawhat is not too bad because of what Rayleigh said upon meeting Luffy, it does explain it, even though I'm sure the majority of people (reading the manga) thought it was a reference to Shanks.
If I recall correctly, it was something like: "that strawhat certainly suits a fearless man like yourself."
The hat is acceptable because we can still say it is a reward Shanks gave for the impressive things Luffy did. But Luffy getting the same fruit, which was due to an accident, would just make him a copy-paste of Roger and the destiny thing would be really lame. It make the story seems meaningless since someone who got the same fruit with PK would become PK.
@brennen.exe:Anyway, I figure Roger's relationship with Shanks is similar to Shanks' relationship with Luffy. Luffy just happens to have the same mentality and fearless adventurers spirit that Roger had, so Shanks sees Luffy in the same light. They both passed down the hat to people they thought were worthy. How did Robby put it… it's not the hat that makes the man, but the man that earns the hat.
Furthermore, it has been foreshadowed with Shanks saying:"This hat meant many things to me" and Rayleigh saying: "This straw hat surely suits a fearless man like you."
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@Sea:
Oh forget it. You can say each to his own or whatever, I am not responding to you anymore.
So let me imagine. After getting his head hit by a truck, Oda decides to let Roger have the Gomu Gomu fruit. He then decides to get the Buggy arc redone to suit common sense.! http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2469/gomugomu.jpg
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1214/gomugomu2.jpgThe hat is acceptable because we can still say it is a reward for the impressive things Luffy did. But the fruit is totally coincidence/fate.
Hey you were the one pushing
And I did actually lol at the redone image well done on that too.
Either way what ever happens man we're not going to be hanging out at the same retirement village when Oda has finished this epic tale so we can't either say "I told you so"
So chillout - don't be so aggressive on forums end of the day it's not life or death on here. Roger having Gomu DF is Unlikely to happen but I wouldn't be surprised if he did thats all I am getting at.
Look the Hat was the Catalist for me - that one additional factor made me think it would/will continue to have similarities between Roger and Luffy. If even 1 more thing comes out that Roger and Luffy share something similar I'm pretty much resigning myself to the DF being shared.
Although I will keep it to myself - don't fret.
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I want to say that "in the wacky world of one piece, anything is possible! Roger could have had the same fruit as luffy, but no one said anything because who knows haha!"
except that that isn't a valid argument. The fact that it is a possibility does not make it a likely possibility worth considering.
If luffy ended up with the same hat, and the same ability as roger, he would feel like a carbon copy of roger. If Roger was his father, and he died unfulfilled, then it would work, because the whole series would have a "carrying on my father's legacy" aspect going on.
But the fact is, luffy is not supposed to be a carbon copy of roger. He is similar, because they are both Pirate King material. But luffy has to make his own way, Oda has made this clear. Luffy is going to do things his own way, and he might ask for help, but he is going to be Luffy, not Roger 2.0.
And if Luffy ended up with the same fruit as Roger, it would be like if Naruto turned out to be the son of the hokage. >_>
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The thing with the hat is pretty believable, and doesn't seem like something that would cause a plot hole or raise questions. We saw Roger with the hat way before he was infamous, he just met Rayleigh. Chances are, he gave Shanks that hat in some situation which we will most likely see in a Shanks Arc sometime in the New World. Chances are that Roger gave Shanks that hat before he was well known, and before Buggy joined up.
On the Devil Fruit matter, I don't think Roger had Luffy's fruit. Why? Because it doesn't seem like something Oda would write. The hat is believable, However Roger, the man who was the Pirate King, and could rival Whitebeard, having the same fruit as Luffy, becoming just as infamous, and not ONE character noting it. Sengoku knew Whitebeards ability, yes he's still around but he pretty much stopped being active before the war, and Sengoku was around back then too. You don't think he would mention when announcing Luffy's relation to Dragon and Ace during the war something like…
"Strawhat Luffy is the man who stormed into Enies Lobby, he is the self proclaimed brother to Ace and son of the Revolutionary Dragon, and wields the same ability as the Pirate King himself!"
Don't you think it would have been wise for Sengoku to inform the Marines of what they were dealing with? I'm sure most Marines were at LEAST told five minutes before gathering that Whitebeard could create earthquakes.
Also, Garp the man who fought Roger countless times wouldn't have mentioned any of this apparently? Yes we know Garp is an idiot who casually mentioned Luffy's heritage, however I'm sure we would get at least SOMETHING from him about Luffy's fruit, even a conversation with Sengoku
Sengoku: "Your Grandson Garp, he has the same ability as that devil Roger!"
Garp: "Oh he would have been such a good Marine"So no, I don't think Roger had the same fruit as Luffy. Do I believe he had a Devil Fruit? Possibly. I know a lot of people don't want Roger to have one, and don't think he is because he was shown using a pistol and sword, however a lot of people felt the same way about Whitebeard. I remember about half the forum wanting him to be the biggest badass, having no Devil Fruit and just using his weapon and strength. Did it deteriorate his badassness? No.
The thing is, while there are some strong people without Devil Fruits, have you noticed a trend, with most of the top tiers having Devil Fruits? It's kind of hard to believe that Roger traveled the entire Grandline, without a Devil Fruit and getting as far as he did. Right now, without his Devil Fruit, using just his own strength and using Ambition, Luffy is pretty damn strong, however we see how much stronger he is with one.
The reason Luffy, the Admirals, Sengoku, and Whitebeard has the status they did was because of their Devil Fruits. Yea, they are all really damn strong without them. Whitebeard says Sengoku is a great strategist, he probably could have at least kept the rank of Vice Admiral with that brains, Tsuru sure is doing it, and doesn't appear that strong. My point is....It seems hard to believe Roger got as far as he did without a fruit
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This post is deleted!
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I want to say that "in the wacky world of one piece, anything is possible! Roger could have had the same fruit as luffy, but no one said anything because who knows haha!"
except that that isn't a valid argument. The fact that it is a possibility does not make it a likely possibility worth considering.
If luffy ended up with the same hat, and the same ability as roger, he would feel like a carbon copy of roger. If Roger was his father, and he died unfulfilled, then it would work, because the whole series would have a "carrying on my father's legacy" aspect going on.
But the fact is, luffy is not supposed to be a carbon copy of roger. He is similar, because they are both Pirate King material. But luffy has to make his own way, Oda has made this clear. Luffy is going to do things his own way, and he might ask for help, but he is going to be Luffy, not Roger 2.0.
And if Luffy ended up with the same fruit as Roger, it would be like if Naruto turned out to be the son of the hokage. >_>
Too true, when I read that in the naruto manga, I was like "wtf… COME ON."
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@mdmartin101:
The thing with the hat is pretty believable, and doesn't seem like something that would cause a plot hole or raise questions. We saw Roger with the hat way before he was infamous, he just met Rayleigh. Chances are, he gave Shanks that hat in some situation which we will most likely see in a Shanks Arc sometime in the New World. Chances are that Roger gave Shanks that hat before he was well known, and before Buggy joined up.
[…]
The thing is, while there are some strong people without Devil Fruits, have you noticed a trend, with most of the top tiers having Devil Fruits? It's kind of hard to believe that Roger traveled the entire Grandline, without a Devil Fruit and getting as far as he did. Right now, without his Devil Fruit, using just his own strength and using Ambition, Luffy is pretty damn strong, however we see how much stronger he is with one.
The reason Luffy, the Admirals, Sengoku, and Whitebeard has the status they did was because of their Devil Fruits. Yea, they are all really damn strong without them. Whitebeard says Sengoku is a great strategist, he probably could have at least kept the rank of Vice Admiral with that brains, Tsuru sure is doing it, and doesn't appear that strong. My point is….It seems hard to believe Roger got as far as he did without a fruit
I just want to bring to light that it is not unlikely that a person can be ridiculously strong while not having a devil fruit. Primary example has to be Garp, 22 years ago he had turned down a promotion to Admiral, numerous times.
He had gone toe-to-toe with Roger, I think this was in the manga, and Roger had Rayleigh as his right hand man, and he is someone who can hold off an admiral. We don't even know much about Garp's right hand man, the guy with the sword who trains Coby and Helmeppo, I don't know his name. We also do not know who else Garp had in his fleet. Garp was able to go up against the (future?) pirate king and did it a few times.
Secondly, I wanna refer to Rayleigh, he can hold off an admiral well after his prime, that's saying something. I'm sure most people know more about Rayleigh's strength then they would know of Garp's, since it isn't made too clear, other than the rank, unless you actually take the time to look for it.
So, I just want to say that Roger not having a DF is a possibility. However, unless the DF is rubber I won't be too surprised if he does have a DF.
I would personally prefer it if Roger did not have a DF but I am not the one writing the story here. I prefer it that way because that just makes his final ambition that much greater. However, even if he did have a DF it doesn't really change anything.
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I would personally prefer it if Roger did not have a DF but I am not the one writing the story here. I prefer it that way because that just makes his final ambition that much greater. However, even if he did have a DF it doesn't really change anything.
I think this here sums up my feelings on the subject.
Thank you.
Not treating that as confirmation of my theory just a really well written post.
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Big Bad Lith and MDMartin, none of your points regarding the Rubber fruit I have not already mentioned, and like me, you shall not convince Cymelion. Because, beyond reason, his gut feeling shows him the light.
Either way what ever happens man we're not going to be hanging out at the same retirement village when Oda has finished this epic tale so we can't either say "I told you so"
So chillout - don't be so aggressive on forums end of the day it's not life or death on here.
I am not arguing to enlarge my ego in an internet forum.
Points to sig
@Cymelion:I think this here sums up my feelings on the subject.
Thank you.
Not treating that as confirmation of my theory just a really well written post.
I woUld persOnally prefer it if PerOna wOuld not jOin the crew but I am not the one writing the story here. I prefer it that way because that just makes more sense. However, even if she would it doesn't really change anything.
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@Sea:
I woUld persOnally prefer it if PerOna wOuld not jOin the crew but I am not the one writing the story here. I prefer it that way because that just makes more sense. However, even if she did it doesn't really change anything.
So if she had joined you'd have quit One Piece?
Naw just like Moriah you would probably accept it, glad it hasn't happened for both of our sakes.Personally couldn't stand Perona and I am glad she isn't part of the crew Brooks Yo-hohohoho is enough - add in Horo Horo Horo frequently be painful.
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@Sea:
I would personally prefer it if Perona would not join the crew but I am not the one writing the story here. I prefer it that way because that just makes more sense. However, even if she did it doesn't really change anything.
That changes a lot actually -.-' Since the readers have to constantly view her on the ship and her character becomes a major part in the story, I know you are being sarcastic but it isn't the same.
While with Roger having a DF doesn't change the story much other than the small instance where it is brought up, unless he had the rubber fruit, which then would make everyone who had seen Roger use the rubber ability bring it up when they saw Luffy (afterwards I guess since no one yet has done so).
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That changes a lot actually -.-' Since the readers have to constantly view her on the ship and her character becomes a major part in the story, I know you are being sarcastic but it isn't the same.
I was not being sarcastic toward you. I do not care whether Roger had a DF or not, but whether he had the Gomu DF or not.
So if she had joined you'd have quit One Piece?
Yes. Or I would read it like I read Naruto.
Naw just like Moriah you would probably accept it
No. These are two completely different things.
I never thought Moria's survival would be bad writing. -
Yeah, I agree the Roger having the Rubber fruit being revealed so late into the manga is quite a big reveal, perhaps too late? Who knows.
I have been stalking these forums past couple months without an account and people come up with some wacky theories, very entertaining, perhaps this is just one of those.
