@Chopper:
i was thinking is it necessary to have a dream to be a SH?
sure that seems to be their theme but could Jimbei join for a sense of duty to ace? Would that be good enough of a reason?
Zoro's dream…. in a way is a sense of duty to his friend after all
if luffy becomes pirate king then luffys name will protct fi like whitebeards did
so if jinbei helps luffy be pirate king he also is protecting fi
@Chopper:
i was thinking is it necessary to have a dream to be a SH?
sure that seems to be their theme but could Jimbei join for a sense of duty to ace? Would that be good enough of a reason?
Zoro's dream…. in a way is a sense of duty to his friend after all
It's necessary to have a dream, but given that we haven't had a proper jinbei flashback yet, since his past is rather tumultuous, it wouldn't be surprising in the least if oda dropped one in at FI whereby we hear what motivates him.
Although I'm not a Jinbei supporter(and still think it's unlikely he'll join), he now does pretty much fit the criteria we've been shown thus far.
@Chopper:
i was thinking is it necessary to have a dream to be a SH?
sure that seems to be their theme but could Jimbei join for a sense of duty to ace? Would that be good enough of a reason?
I guess it could be a reason but on the other hand I'm somewhat certain Jinbei already did more than enough to protect Luffy during the war. Pirate King doesn't need a bodyguard.
@Chopper:
i was thinking is it necessary to have a dream to be a SH?
sure that seems to be their theme but could Jimbei join for a sense of duty to ace? Would that be good enough of a reason?
Zoro's dream…. in a way is a sense of duty to his friend after all
Assuming he has a dream, I wouldn't expect it to be revealed until Fishman Island. A few were fairly up front about it, but not so many that you'd expect it. Nami's dream wasn't revealed until Arlong Park. Usopp's dream wasn't revealed until they left Loguetown, which was a rather hilarious moment of "oh crap, I need a dream!" We didn't learn of Robin's dream until the chapter she joined, and we didn't learn Franky's dream until Enies Lobby was over. You get the point.
Jinbei should join the Revolutionary Army.
I understand your point, but I can't really get behind it. If someone like Brook can still improve, then Jinbei should be able to as well. All the crew members were put in an ideal situation to improve over the course of two years. Jinbei, on the other hand, just went back to the same thing he's been doing for a long time, most likely, minus a warlord title. The potential in comparative growth over the two year span should naturally be lower for him, I'd think.
If he were to join, I'd expect that he'd grow from necessity in the future. I'd expect things like an underwater battle against a merman, in which he actually has to overcome a disadvantage by fighting in the water. Simply put, new and unique situations would spur his development.
I'd hope for some decent growth over the two years if he doesn't join, though.
I can't understand how brooks case is similar to jimbeis. Unless jimbei spent the 2 years doing nothing which is exactly what brook was doing back then at TB?
During the timeskip brook had the time and the perfect setup to train his music. I hope that jimbei had a couple of fights during those 2 years and weren't on holiday.
I can't understand how brooks case is similar to jimbeis. Unless jimbei spent the 2 years doing nothing which is exactly what brook was doing back then at TB?
During the timeskip brook had the time and the perfect setup to train his music. I hope that jimbei had a couple of fights during those 2 years and weren't on holiday.
Well, I brought Brook up initially because of his age, but Brook was hardly doing nothing. He said he spent the years since his shadow was stolen training to defeat Ryuuma.
The biggest issue Jinbei likely had to deal with at FI for two years is simple numbers. I have a hard time imagining a character as powerful as him choosing kidnapping as a career path, and they're the ones that caused the most problems. Pirates heading to the New World also caused problems, but we saw in 601 that even they wouldn't pose an overly serious threat to him, especially underwater. Also, in 598, they were talking about how Sabaody was already crazier than it had been in the two years since Luffy's last visit.
I certainly wouldn't expect him to have the same kind of fights in 2 years defending FI that he would get if he ventured out into the New World.
The thing is…Jinbei is a traitor to WG. Would they let him simply be at FI?
@Sea:
The thing is…Jinbei is a traitor to WG. Would they let him simply be at FI?
well last time the wg heard about jimbei he was with luffy so maybe they did not think he went there
well last time the wg heard about jimbei he was with luffy so maybe they did not think he went there
Why wouldn't they? I mean they now have marineford in the new world. I wouldn't really understand if they don't send a strong marine there to clean the path. It's the only entrance for pirates into the new world.
Well, I brought Brook up initially because of his age, but Brook was hardly doing nothing. He said he spent the years since his shadow was stolen training to defeat Ryuuma.
The biggest issue Jinbei likely had to deal with at FI for two years is simple numbers. I have a hard time imagining a character as powerful as him choosing kidnapping as a career path, and they're the ones that caused the most problems. Pirates heading to the New World also caused problems, but we saw in 601 that even they wouldn't pose an overly serious threat to him, especially underwater. Also, in 598, they were talking about how Sabaody was already crazier than it had been in the two years since Luffy's last visit.
I certainly wouldn't expect him to have the same kind of fights in 2 years defending FI that he would get if he ventured out into the New World.
And we're still none the wiser as to why slavers were even a problem for Fishmen in general before Newgate saved them - considering this is their home territory where they should be much stronger then on land.
Hopefully Oda doesn't slip in a "rescue sanji's dignity" arc or something, since I'm now geared up for FI, and finding out answers to some of the questions floating around for the last three years.
I understand your point, but I can't really get behind it. If someone like Brook can still improve, then Jinbei should be able to as well. All the crew members were put in an ideal situation to improve over the course of two years. Jinbei, on the other hand, just went back to the same thing he's been doing for a long time, most likely, minus a warlord title. The potential in comparative growth over the two year span should naturally be lower for him, I'd think.
If he were to join, I'd expect that he'd grow from necessity in the future. I'd expect things like an underwater battle against a merman, in which he actually has to overcome a disadvantage by fighting in the water. Simply put, new and unique situations would spur his development.
I'd hope for some decent growth over the two years if he doesn't join, though.
**Exactly. While Jimbei probably hasn't gotten much stronger for a while now, he also probably hasn't been pushing himself or been in situation where he had to go 110%.
Like I said earlier, since it was shown in the war that there is an enormous difference between the likes of Jimbei and a top-tier fighter (in this case it was Akainu), I think it's pretty reasonable that the monster trio may have surpassed him at this point.
I think I got into a debate with you before about how I didn't see Jimbei joining unless there was a timeskip due to the enormous difference between himself and Luffy. But since the timeskip I guess we're on the same page.**
Why wouldn't they? I mean they now have marineford in the new world. I wouldn't really understand if they don't send a strong marine there to clean the path. It's the only entrance for pirates into the new world.
The best reason I can think of is a lack of resources. The world could only have gotten more chaotic after the timeskip, and if the Marines didn't have the manpower or will to control FI before, then it would be even harder to scrounge up the resources now. Either way, we should find out all about it in a few chapters…
If the Marines were to just go into FI and capture the guy who was once supposed to "symbolize peace between races" would that not symbolize that the peace was broken, there would be a full out war between fishman and marines, I honestly do not think even the strongest marines would be able to handle attacks on their ships from underwater, but this is just speculation based on the little information we know. Though I can gather that Fishman island has no ties to the world government and is its own independant State with a capital "S".
And we're still none the wiser as to why slavers were even a problem for Fishmen in general before Newgate saved them - considering this is their home territory where they should be much stronger then on land.
Hopefully Oda doesn't slip in a "rescue sanji's dignity" arc or something, since I'm now geared up for FI, and finding out answers to some of the questions floating around for the last three years.
well due to the fact fishman and mermaids sell for like the most out of all slaves and sa is right next to it where they sell the slaves
pritty much a numbers thing so many people were going there to kidnap that the guards could not stop them all at once and would be dealing with a few groups at a time and another would get away with someone due to them being busy
think of it as the current chapter of one piece where the marines where after the strawhats the strawhat allys kept the marines busy so the strawhats could escape
think it would be the same with the slave traders they could even lose men on purpose so they can get away and not have to share as much of the money but still get results
I think I got into a debate with you before about how I didn't see Jimbei joining unless there was a timeskip due to the enormous difference between himself and Luffy. But since the timeskip I guess we're on the same page.
That's probably true. Strength was the most common issue I had to address back then. I always maintained that the defeat at Sabaody would drive the crew to become much stronger so that it wouldn't be a problem. I didn't honestly expect a multi-year timeskip, but it's probably best for the amount of development they all needed.
I think that Jinbei is still on fishman island in order to protect it, i also think that the marines would have kept him as a warlord reguardless of his acts in the war. They have said a few times themselves that its not good to have multiple warlord changes as it devalues their reputation a bit and they don't want that.
I think that Jinbei is still on fishman island in order to protect it, i also think that the marines would have kept him as a warlord reguardless of his acts in the war. They have said a few times themselves that its not good to have multiple warlord changes as it devalues their reputation a bit and they don't want that.
No, they wouldn't keep a warlord who was openly traitorous to them in their hour of need with the world watching.
In fact Jinbei openly and clearly forfeited his warlord title during the war.
He yelled that at Sengoku
I thought Bentham was just positing a "what if he hadn't quit", but rereading his post, he may actually have missed that.
I really hope that Jimbei doesn't join the crew. I really dislike him as a character. He has to be the single most boring character in the entire series, hands down. I seriously don't see him joining at all to be honest.
^I know right?
I mean it was so boring when he apoligised to Luffy for letting him take even more damage when Akainu punched a hole right through him. Zero character whatsoever….
I really hope that Jimbei doesn't join the crew. I really dislike him as a character. He has to be the single most boring character in the entire series, hands down. I seriously don't see him joining at all to be honest.
I second that. While I like Jimbei he doesn't fit the "freak-yet-funny" theme that most of the SH has.
^I know right?
I mean it was so boring when he apoligised to Luffy for letting him take even more damage when Akainu punched a hole right through him. Zero character whatsoever….
If that kind of thing is all Jimbei is going to bring to the party as a main character then I also would much rather that he not appear in the story on a weekly basis.
Jinbei, while a somewhat interesting and respectable character is simply not an entertaining character, espicially when in a casual setting/atmosphere. The couple of chapters post-marineford proved as much.
Wait… why is Perona out?
After the last chapter it might just happen...
I perdict we see the next person that will join in the next 10 chapters
Perona's not joining the crew, she's no longer relevant to the conversation in any way, and constantly bringing her up just brings back around the stupid questions, the gloating, the trolling and flaming. The pro side has had months to hope and throw out theories, and the con side has now been proven right and had a chance to enjoy the fact.
If Oda defies all storytelling quality and at random has her on the ship to be part of the crew next week, I'll apologize profusely. But in the mean time, the next person to use the word "Perona" in this thread, for any reason, gets temp banned.
Jinbei, while a somewhat interesting and respectable character is simply not an entertaining character, espicially when in a casual setting/atmosphere. The couple of chapters post-marineford proved as much.
What? The couple of chapters post-Marineford are still far from 'casual setting/atmosphere', given Luffy's condition and what just happened, and despite that we did see a lighter side to his character. With all the personality the crew has, another semi-serious character wouldn't hurt. It's not about how funny they are, but about how they interact with each other.
@RobbyBevard:
If Oda defies all storytelling quality and at random has her on the ship to be part of the crew next week, I'll apologize profusely.
I sure as hell won't. If someone is lucky enough to see a character they want to join end up on the crew by way of bad writing, at best they'll get a congratulations from me on winning the lottery.
Do all the people dismissing Jinbei because he's not "freaky or funny" not know what a straight man is.
What? The couple of chapters post-Marineford are still far from 'casual setting/atmosphere', given Luffy's condition and what just happened, and despite that we did see a lighter side to his character. With all the personality the crew has, another semi-serious character wouldn't hurt. It's not about how funny they are, but about how they interact with each other.
It was casual enough for Hancock's humour to shine through. And the Heart (?) pirates. And enough for Hancock and sisters as well as Nyon to have comedic entertaining moments.
I will also point out that during the transisition between Impel Down and Marineford, Luffy and Buggy's humour shone through, and to a certain extent Mr.3's. Again little to none from Jimbei.
So despite the fact Oda can instill humour into Jimbei so far he has'nt. And Jimbei has been featured in the story for a while now. Until he does, I don't see the intention to make Jimbei appeal as a main character. He has been fully serious so far, not semi-serious.
As for interaction with the crew, only time will tell.
Edit:
@Cyan:
Do all the people dismissing Jinbei because he's not "freaky or funny" not know what a straight man is.
I have no absolutly no idea what that is =/
I thought Jimbei's stomach growling scene was hilarious.
And yes, another straightman on the crew wouldn't hurt. Zoro has a ton of quirks, and Robin… doesn't really have a shtick with anyone. Zelgadis was the most serious character in Slayers, but he always had the funniest lines and the funniest things happen to him. And it was funnier because it went against his dignity.
Every now and again you gotta throw a pie in someone's face.
Regardless, with an entire city of crazy fish people about to be introduced, for fishman and merman, fishmaid and mermaid, I'm sure we'll be seeing a LOT of interesting new guys pretty much immediatley. Think of how much variety there was among just Arlong's group, and how many kinds of fish there are in the sea. Not to mention crazy contraptions and fighting styles...
Jimbei indebted to and he likes Luffy, but as a representative of all fishmen (which is why he was chosen to be a shichibukai in the first place) it seems to me he has greater roles and things to do than to be on a pirate crew. Of course, he's now had 2 years to take care of buisness...
I have no absolutly no idea what that is =/
A double act, also known as a comedy duo, is a comic pairing in which humor is derived from the uneven relationship between two partners, usually of the same gender, age, ethnic origin and profession, but drastically different personalities or behavior. Often one of the duo members, the straight man, feed, dead wood, or stooge is portrayed as reasonable and serious, and the other one, the funny man or comic is portrayed as funny, less educated or less intelligent, or unorthodox. When a woman is in the "straight man" role, she is more often referred to as a comic foil. The term feed comes from the way a straight man will set up jokes for—or "feed" them to—their partner.
Despite the names given to the roles, the "straight man" need not necessarily be humorless, and it is not always the comic who provides the act's humor. Sometimes, it is the straight man who gets the laughs through his or her sarcastic reactions to the comic's antics, as was often the case with Stewart Lee's deadpan, reasoned reactions to Richard Herring's more ridiculous antics in their pairing. Where the "straight man" serves no personal comic purpose but acts as a device to make the "comic" look good, they are known as a "Stooge". This is sometimes considered a derogatory term. Most often, however, the humor in a double act comes from the way the two personalities play off each other rather than the individuals themselves; in many successful acts the roles are interchangeable.
It was casual enough for Hancock's humour to shine through. And the Heart (?) pirates. And enough for Hancock and sisters as well as Nyon to have comedic entertaining moments.
Yes, because they were all deeply connected to Ace and traumatized by his death.
I will also point out that during the transisition between Impel Down and Marineford, Luffy and Buggy's humour shone through, and to a certain extent Mr.3's. Again little to none from Jimbei.
Maybe that's because Jinbei was busy being in character, as his personality is different from idiots like Luffy and Buggy. I remember Croc had me rolling in those scenes, just like Robin has been an absolute comedian since she returned five chapters ago.
So despite the fact Oda can instill humour into Jimbei so far he has'nt.
That's a matter of opinion. A lot of people on the forum have changed they opinion of him since the war ended, making comments about how he has shown a lighter, more humorous aspect to his character. For example, when the Amazon's were pinching his cheek, when Luffy bit him, when he saw Rayleigh for the first time, or when his stomach growled and he commented on the food. Small panels, sure, but enough to show that Oda can do more with his character than 'serious'.
@RobbyBevard:
Regardless, with an entire city of crazy fish people about to be introduced, for fishman and merman, fishmaid and mermaid, I'm sure we'll be seeing a LOT of interesting new guys pretty much immediatley. Think of how much variety there was among just Arlong's group, and how many kinds of fish there are in the sea. Not to mention crazy contraptions and fighting styles…
I was about to write something among those lines. Everyone is going to forget about Jinbei with all the new characters we are going to see at Fishman Island.
@RobbyBevard:
And yes, another straightman on the crew wouldn't hurt. Zoro has a ton of quirks, and Robi… doesn't really have a shtick with anyone. Zelgadis was the most serious character in Slayers, but he always had the funniest lines and the funniest things happen to him. And it was funnier because it went against his dignity.
I still say Zoro does the job just fine, and also Sanji to a degree. Plus, I think Robin has enough seriousness to last for the entire crew. Usopp and Nami can also play the straight man at times, being the more normal of the SHs. I think all the characters have played straight men at least once, with the exception of Luffy, Brook and Franky.
@RobbyBevard:
Regardless, with an entire city of crazy fish people about to be introduced, for fishman and merman, fishmaid and mermaid, I'm sure we'll be seeing a LOT of interesting new guys pretty much immediatley. Think of how much variety there was among just Arlong's group, and how many kinds of fish there are in the sea. Not to mention crazy contraptions and fighting styles…
Definitely. I think it's been implied that under the water there's plenty of kingdoms and currents to be pretty much another world, the same way Skypia was.
I want our fishman to be something really unique, but badass. Something like an angler fish, a triggerfish, or an eel.
@RobbyBevard:
Jimbei indebted to and he likes Luffy, but as a representative of all fishmen (which is why he was chosen to be a shichibukai in the first place) it seems to me he has greater roles and things to do than to be on a pirate crew. Of course, he's now had 2 years to take care of buisness…
I think that if Oda intended him to join and made him "take care of business" over the last two years, he would have shown us that, even if it just were on the cover of a chapter.
If he does I'm sure he will make a story that'll convince me, but so far two entire arcs where Jinbei is around hasn't.
@RobbyBevard:
And yes, another straightman on the crew wouldn't hurt. Zoro has a ton of quirks, and Robin… doesn't really have a shtick with anyone.
Every now and again you gotta throw a pie in someone's face.
I think you hit the nail on the head. The key thing about straightmen is that you gotta mess with them. Like how Sanji always messes with Zoro. Robin is kinda strange in that she's still distant most of the time and has really little comedic value. The "refusal to combine into battle robot" episode in Thriller Bark was pretty funny, but we really don't get a lot of that.
As for Jinbei, I just don't see anyone messing with him (he's too dignified). Oda could give him some quirk, I guess, but… Of course, not that he needs comedic value to join the crew, but I think that would help. Still, with his other obligations and such, I don't really see him signing up.
Jinbei, while a somewhat interesting and respectable character is simply not an entertaining character, espicially when in a casual setting/atmosphere.
That is an opinion. Spouting off jokes and dancing around isn't the only way to be entertaining.
He has been fully serious so far, not semi-serious.
That is because he has been in "fully serious" situations so far.
@RobbyBevard:
Jinbei indebted to and he likes Luffy, but as a representative of all fishmen, which is why he was chosen to be a shichibukai in the first place.
You know, Jinbei joining, for me, has never been about him being cool or interesting. For me the core has always been around the development of his character. Before he was even introduced we knew he would have backstory, and we knew it would very likely be tragic, so it is easy to conclude he would have a certain level of depth just by existing. Add in the possibility (which I suggested then) that he would be opposite in nature to other fishmen, being kinder and gentler, and you have another layer to his character. Whatever his motivation to allying himself with the Government, be it the same as the previous point or another entirely, suggest he has a goal, which could suggest a dream. Him being introduced in prison show that staple passion and ambition for what he believes in. I could probably add a few more things, but this is all stuff I brought up before he was introduced. Everything since then has only helped the argument. The core, however, makes me think Oda has much more in story for him than "Ally #0042" for Luffy. A role that cannot really live up to and make use of its foundation in only one or two arcs.
I think that if Oda intended him to join and made him "take care of business" over the last two years, he would have shown us that, even if it just were on the cover of a chapter.
You really think Oda would have touched on something like that within the 5 chapters since the skip ended??
@RobbyBevard:
And yes, another straightman on the crew wouldn't hurt. Zelgadis was the most serious character in Slayers, but he always had the funniest lines and the funniest things happen to him. And it was funnier because it went against his dignity.
I think you hit the nail on the head. […] As for Jinbei, I just don't see anyone messing with him (he's too dignified).
Hahaha, you agreed with his post, but then snipped his example that emphasized his point, only to claim that Jinbei wouldn't work because of that very reason.
Thanks for the explanation Robby =). I don't fully get it but i'll just look up further examples myself.
@Brennan: Okay the 'humour' panels after the war is a matter of opinion then. After all humour is subjective, there is no right nor wrong. I was hasty in suggesting that.
I think you hit the nail on the head here though.
@brennen.exe:
Maybe that's because Jinbei was busy being in character….... I remember Croc had me rolling in those scenes,
Being like that is exactly Jinbei's character(we have seen little else) and his future role in the story is not dissimilar to Crocodile's.
However of course this is merely my specualtion and I cannot prove this :)
Edit: damn i was slow. So many responses in between that >.<
I am happy we are finally discussing the character that does not have so much evidence pointing him away from the crew. Really, now that the timeskip has happened, the main thing people have going against him is that hes boring. How could anyone know if he was truly boring when the only arcs he has been in were the most dramatic and emotional, even luffy did not have many crazy antics during the war or impel down.
Jinbei's calmness might actually prove funnier than people think when all the straw hats around him are going crazy in some way. His expression when all of the Amazon's were pinching his cheeks to see if his skin stretched like luffy was pretty funny. I am sure Jinbei would be funny in his own unique way.
The second major thing going for him is his strength. Do people actually think some random person would be able to keep up with the new strawhats? They need someone with strength and fame to join their crew, having a previous bounty would also help.
The third thing is a unique fighting style that sets him apart. Fishman karate is definitely unique in that it lets him use water to his advantage and will not clash with the other martial artist of the crew(sanji).
The fourth is that he actually fills in the only known role left in a One piece world pirate crew and that is the helmsman position. Jinbei has been behind the helm in every ship we have seen him in, save for when he was hurt after the war. They will need someone comfortable behind the wheel to navigate the currents of the new world, I do not think sanji usopp or chopper will cut it any more.
So, unless Jinbei has an apprentice, I think that he has the highest chance of joining the crew.
I say a fishman bbut not jimbei. Maybe a fishwoman.
Hahaha, you agreed with his post, but then snipped his example that emphasized his point, only to claim that Jinbei wouldn't work because of that very reason.
Ah, okay. Bad choice of words on my part. My apologies. I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't see Jinbei reacting to any jabs because he's dignified. For a straightman to work, you gotta mess with him and he's gotta react somehow – either with anger like Zoro or some kind of "I can't believe you're this childish" reaction. Jinbei seems (to me) like the type to simply shrug it off and take it in stride. But I dunno, maybe Oda will start making some changes to him in the future...
So, unless Jinbei has an apprentice, I think that he has the highest chance of joining the crew.
This was a pretty common prediction back before the timeskip, and I thought it had a lot of credibility as well. After the timeskip, though, not so much.
"You guys were trained by Rayleigh, Mihawk, and Dragon, huh? Well, I… err... Please don't think of me as inferior."
Fisher Tiger would fit that list very nicely, though.
