Sabo will return as a villain.
Chapter 596: "Spectrum" Discussion
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Sabo is Moria!
More especificaly, his current shadow, he took over him when he tried to use him in the shadow asgard.
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i'm still not buying that it's Sabo, even if someone(s) we don't know was badly injured, you know after giant horrible fire that destroyed a trash mountain was mentioned. Mostly because it was a flashback, and he was a child in a flashback,he's someone the main character knew we haven't heard about/seen until the flashback , he was blown up. Four things proven to be super deadly in one piece.
Why would Oda waste a scene on someone we don't know and not just lump all them into the same original rescue scene? Also, as other people as pointed out, it wasn't the same day as the fire. It was the same day that Sabo was attacked - Oda noted that specifically. That's the only event we saw on the day of the Tenryuubito's arrival that would require medical attention.
Also, Sabo's not equivalent to any other flashback character we've met. He really wasn't necessary - what we knew about Ace and Luffy's childhood before seemed sufficient. He wasn't central to Ace or Luffy's goals. He also had a subplot that was completely unrelated to his brothers. It also doesn't really make sense to introduce another brother and kill him off, right after Ace's death. Even before the Dragon scene, I knew he would live, just because he would be a waste of space otherwise.
Also, surely he could've gone back to Luffy's hometown, or sent a letter or something to alert his friends he wasn't dead.
He sent them a letter saying goodbye already. Are we sure that Sabo knew that they believed him to be dead? It's possible, but there's no way he could have known for sure that anybody he knew saw him blown up.
If Sabo is still alive, the most important explanation for me is to know why he didn't show up to help his brother while he was executed. Oda should realy have a good explanation for this.
I don't see why that's so hard to explain. Dragon mentioned that the revolutionaries are scattered all around the world. News of Ace's execution only came a week beforehand. If Sabo were stationed in one of the Blues, there's no way he could have made it to Marineford in time.
On Pell's "death," my impression is that Oda was saving Ace to be the first non-flashback character killed.
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@Del:
Wrong. Creating drama with no plot purposes is bad story-telling. By they way, story-telling is the reason that makes so obvious Sabo being alive, anyone that seriously thinks he is death after all those chapter lacks reading skills.
I wonder why you say that anyone who thinks he is dead lacks reading skills. I personally am under the opinion that he is dead. Like I said MY OPINION… not saying it is or is not what happened. I've read the chapters with Sabo multiple times and hey I still think he's dead.
If you make a bold statement like that back it up with some facts and such. Plus it's kind of offensive to just say 'you like reading skills b/c you don't see what I see'. Everyone interprets something they ready differently. No one person is going to see the exact same thing the majority of the time. Does that mean they lack certain comprehension skills, no, it just means they saw something differently than you did. I'm all for a healthy debate on if Sabo is alive or not. But insulting someone isn't debate.
I personally see one reason why Sabo could be alive - as others have stated there is no corpse.
My reasoning in believing that he is dead is a child on a boat that was burning and had a cannonball flung at it. All signs point to killing Sabo.
I've also seen people saying that he may have joined the revolutionaries/etc. This just does not seem like Sabo to me. If you remember Sabo risked himself and his own happiness to protect Luffy and Ace. He begged his parents not to hurt them. Why then after "recovering" would he not seek out the two of them. It's not like Ace and Luffy set out RIGHT after Sabo was killed/injured. Sabo would not have taken that long to heal. He could have come back.
And another thing that bothers me about the revolutionary theory is that Sabo was still very much young, and while he was very headstrong I don't think he would immediately abandon Ace and Luffy without letting them know what was going on.
I think alot of what the flashback chapters that told the story of Sabo, Ace and Luffy were trying to do was trying to set an emotional stronghold for Ace's death. To show how strongly Luffy might react to it. And to show the promise Ace made to Luffy after Sabo's death.
The chapter may have been a build up to bring Sabo back at some point, but I fully believe it was to truly show the bond the young boys shared at that point and time, and to also show the bond between Luffy and Ace and how not only was it strengthened that day but again the promises that were made.
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Dammit… every damn week someone in the manga section further proves that Oda needed to make a neon sign in the scene at Zoro's town that said "this is Sabo; he's alive you slow, illiterate bastards!"
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Dammit… every damn week someone in the manga section further proves that Oda needed to make a neon sign in the scene at Zoro's town that said "this is Sabo; he's alive you slow, illiterate bastards!"
Wow what a mature and rational response you just made there…...
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Wonder for all those people that still think Sabo is dead, their reaction when he shows up later in the story.
Quote:
Originally posted by cantcomprehendonepiece124543
"Oh wow I can't believe it! I never would had imagined that Dragon helped Sabo because of his encounter at the night of the fire. And the day he got blasted by the celestial dragon was the same night Dragon was with his crew treating to a injured individual. And that was Sabo out of all people! Wow just wow! Oda surprises me again."Yeah I know! One piece just to complicated for me to understand it I was surprised too.
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Wow what a mature and rational response you just made there…...
I'm sorry that you've had it explained to you yet still choose to say "durrr… wut if it were a gai from the fire dat we already knew dey had on da ship?... wut if it was some random gai we never met?... how can it b da gai dat was injured dat very day?... how can it not b some1 wit burns from a day or two earlier dat was already on da damn ship?"
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Iva stabbed him,he's healed. Done and done.
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I would honestly be very much surprised if Sabo does show up alive. I'm not saying that the idea of Sabo being alive is wrong, I just saying until I see further proof I just don't believe it. Therefore in the spirit of healthy debate and discussion, I'm simply asking for anyone who keeps insulting others and just saying he's alive to actually point out chapters/pages/etc that would help me better understand this.
To this point I've mainly seen speculation and conjecture. I'm simply stating why I think he's dead in the hopes that again in the spirit of debate and discussion that someone could point me in a direction that would possibly change my theory, instead of simply insulting others.
Kthx :)
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I'm sorry that you've had it explained to you yet still choose to say "durrr… wut if it were a gai from the fire dat we already knew dey had on da ship?... wut if it was some random gai we never met?... how can it b da gai dat was injured dat very day?... how can it not b some1 wit burns from a day or two earlier dat was already on da damn ship?"
Oh dear sir, I once again applaud your maturity.
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That's exactly why Oda needed a neon sign on the Dragon page^ because people who can't comprehend the story don't see it and claim that it's an "opinion" to be wrong about interpreting that page. And if you'd look at what I actually said with that post instead of going "waaa, im butthurt, he's being an internet meanie!", maybe you'd see my point
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This post is deleted!
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My reasoning in believing that he is dead is a child on a boat that was burning and had a cannonball flung at it. All signs point to killing Sabo.
Pell, Conis' dad, Moria, etc. If we don't see a corpse, we don't know, that's all there is to it (though they are probably alive.)
I've also seen people saying that he may have joined the revolutionaries/etc. This just does not seem like Sabo to me. If you remember Sabo risked himself and his own happiness to protect Luffy and Ace. He begged his parents not to hurt them. Why then after "recovering" would he not seek out the two of them. It's not like Ace and Luffy set out RIGHT after Sabo was killed/injured. Sabo would not have taken that long to heal. He could have come back.
And another thing that bothers me about the revolutionary theory is that Sabo was still very much young, and while he was very headstrong I don't think he would immediately abandon Ace and Luffy without letting them know what was going on.
Sabo wasn't going on a joyride that day. He was leaving the island forever. He left his goodbyes. It's not like he had any reason to believe that Ace and Luffy saw him blown up - he wasn't waving goodbye to them or anything. Heck, they only knew because the squat little bandit saw it by chance.
I think alot of what the flashback chapters that told the story of Sabo, Ace and Luffy were trying to do was trying to set an emotional stronghold for Ace's death. To show how strongly Luffy might react to it. And to show the promise Ace made to Luffy after Sabo's death.
The chapter may have been a build up to bring Sabo back at some point, but I fully believe it was to truly show the bond the young boys shared at that point and time, and to also show the bond between Luffy and Ace and how not only was it strengthened that day but again the promises that were made.
Why did we need an emotional stronghold. We just effing saw Ace die and saw Luffy go nuts. It wasn't really up in the air. If anything, having another brother die took away from the emotional impact. We didn't need to see more of their bond, either - we just saw Ace die for Luffy. Inventing a new brother and killing him off didn't prove anything. If anything, the most telling scenes in the flashback were 1.) Luffy refusing to give Ace away to the bandits and 2.) Ace protecting Luffy from Bluejam. Neither involved Sabo.
I'll say it again: Sabo's not equivalent to any other flashback character we've met. He really wasn't necessary - what we knew about Ace and Luffy's childhood before seemed sufficient. He wasn't central to Ace or Luffy's goals. He also had a subplot that was completely unrelated to his brothers. It also doesn't really make sense to introduce another brother and kill him off, right after Ace's death. Even before the Dragon scene, I knew he would live, just because he would be a waste of space otherwise.
Also, what is your explanation for why Oda labeled Dragon's scene as the day of the Tenryuubito's arrival? Who else do you think it could be?
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RE: loledinmypants
Again you did not read what I wrote. I said point me to the chapter/page/etc and I could completely concede and agree with your point. You simply just say I'm wrong and you are right and that I can't read. Which is in a sense very immature and very boorish.Again I challenge to participate in HEALTHY and MATURE discussion and debate instead of just acting like a 10 yr old troll on the internet.
I have twice stated that I could concede and agree with your point if you could actually point it out to me this page that you are placing so much faith in. I have not once stated that you are wrong. I have not once stated that I don't believe there is something truly there in the page you are speaking of. I simply stated that my opinion was that he was dead.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has them and they all usually stink.
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Pell, Conis' dad, Moria, etc. If we don't see a corpse, we don't know, that's all there is to it (though they are probably alive.)
I completely agree with you here. I have said that I do agree with you folks about the corpse not being there and that this could be reasoning for him being alive.
I'll say it again: Sabo's not equivalent to any other flashback character we've met. He really wasn't necessary - what we knew about Ace and Luffy's childhood before seemed sufficient. He wasn't central to Ace or Luffy's goals. He also had a subplot that was completely unrelated to his brothers. It also doesn't really make sense to introduce another brother and kill him off, right after Ace's death. Even before the Dragon scene, I knew he would live, just because he would be a waste of space otherwise.
See to me he was necessary. It was necessary for Ace to truly see Luffy as a brother because of the interaction and Sabo's death. At that point Ace truly accepted Luffy as a brother. And promises were made.
Again I state purely my opinion.
Also, what is your explanation for why Oda labeled Dragon's scene as the day of the Tenryuubito's arrival? Who else do you think it could be?
This I do not know. Again I'm going off pure memory of the chapters which I read multiple times. If someone could please point me to the chapter/etc of this explanation that everyone keeps using I could possibly make a different and more enlightened decision on this.
ETA: Thank you Mikan for making a mature and rational response to my statement
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Pell, Conis' dad, Moria, etc. If we don't see a corpse, we don't know, that's all there is to it (though they are probably alive.)
a valid point had this not been a flashback where we often times don't see corpses, and it's especially difficult to show corpses when someone was blown up and there may not be a corpse to show
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See to me he was necessary. It was necessary for Ace to truly see Luffy as a brother because of the interaction and Sabo's death. At that point Ace truly accepted Luffy as a brother. And promises were made.
Sabo had nothing to do with Ace viewing Luffy as a brother. We had already seen that defining moment in Ace's flashback - the brothers' cups; Ace himself was the one who proposed it. Both that and the their cute montage of fighting/playing could have easily cut out Sabo. We saw him refuse to back down against Bluejam because Luffy was behind him. Sabo's existence didn't explain why Ace and Luffy were brothers.
We went 580 chapters without knowing about Sabo; he simply didn't contribute to Ace or Luffy's motivations. I love the flashback, but it doesn't add to the main plot in any real way. Introducing another brother who doesn't really do anything just to kill him off, right after Ace died, is beyond silly and repetitive. Especially after he wasted so much time establishing Sabo as a character in his own right - one with goals and a life outside of Ace and Luffy. Basically, I don't think Oda is a shitty writer.
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The more I think about the Strawhat separation series in general, I go back to Chapter 484/485 and wonder what the hell Kuma is up to.
Especially with Dragon's recent throwaway line in 593 that had me assuming that he had nothing to do with Kuma's actions on Shabondy.
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Jewelry_Bonney, if you are so sure Sabo is dead, why don't you make a bet on it? Greg is taking 200 dollars.
humhum
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Mikan -
I can see the point you are trying to make and agree with you that Oda is not a shitty writer. I just took a different meaning than you did. Does that mean both of us are wrong. No, it just means we have different opinions.I guess I tend to look at the emotional bonds of the three of them, and how the death affected both Luffy and Ace and took from that what I would.
Definitely see your point.
I still ask for either you or loled - can someone please point me to the chapter/page that deals with Dragon?
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Goddammit, even my least favorite poster on this forum who goes around crusading against Bleach "hate" thinks Sabo is alive. I second whoever it was that wants the people who don't understand it studied because even this guy knows:
@Zoom:Sabo's likely to be alive in my opinion.
Edit: I'll find the damn page with Dragon since you seem to need it despite reading the latest stuff "several times"
Edit2: Here:[hide]
On this page Dragon comes back to his ship ("you're late") with someone needing first aid because "These (wounds) are terrible". This takes place the night Sabo's boat was shot. They had the fire rescuees on the boat for a few days at this point, so who else but Sabo did Dragon bring back.[/hide] -
@Del:
Jewelry_Bonney, if you are so sure Sabo is dead, why don't you make a bet on it? Greg is taking 200 dollars.
Lol, As I've said soooo many times before but people seem to be misunderstanding. I just believe him to be dead. I'm asking for ANYONE to prove to me that he's not. I'm not deadset on him being dead as I said before in another post. And I will be hellua happy if he is alive. I loved the character of Sabo and the bond he had with Luffy and Ace.
I TOTALLY agreed with everyone that there is no corpse!!! I simply felt (and once again its my opinion - which could be totally and utterly wrong) that Sabo was there as an emotional push to Luffy and Ace.
I've seen multiple people talk about this scene with Dragon and I've asked multiple times for someone to point this out to me, b/c I honestly either did not see it or misinterpreted it.
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I've seen multiple people talk about this scene with Dragon and I've asked multiple times for someone to point this out to me, b/c I honestly either did not see it or misinterpreted it.
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I would honestly be very much surprised if Sabo does show up alive. I'm not saying that the idea of Sabo being alive is wrong, I just saying until I see further proof I just don't believe it. Therefore in the spirit of healthy debate and discussion, I'm simply asking for anyone who keeps insulting others and just saying he's alive to actually point out chapters/pages/etc that would help me better understand this.
To this point I've mainly seen speculation and conjecture. I'm simply stating why I think he's dead in the hopes that again in the spirit of debate and discussion that someone could point me in a direction that would possibly change my theory, instead of simply insulting others.
Kthx :)
Chapter 589 page 7
[hide]Look, it's Zoro! :DTashigiKuina too!! :O //
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The narration box clearly tells us that it's skipped back to the night when the Celestial Dragons arrived in the Goa Kingdom, the same day they shot down Sabo. The page itself shows Dragon arriving back at his ship with, supposedly, Ivankov yelling at him for being late. He then says to get the first aid so that they could treat what sounds like heavy wounds. Remember that the Grey Terminal fire happened at least the night before the Celestial Dragon's arrival so it's impossible for it to be one of the civilians. Also, Dragon managed to save many of them the actual night when the fire occurred so it has to have been someone else that he's brought back. At the bottom of the page Dragon orders his crew to immediately set sail for Baltigo/Vertigo, which is located in the Grand Line. Now if it were Sabo on that ship he's most likely not recovered until maybe the time they arrive on the Grand Line.Now take account of his page. Chapter 586 page 19
[hide]
^^WILL THEY SURVIVE? Gotta love Jump sometimes.[/hide]
Dragon has already had a run in with Sabo before. The (assuming it happened the next day) following day, Sabo sets out for sea during the Celestial Dragon's arrival, gets shot, and is apparently "killed" in the eyes of Dogura. That SAME DAY the events of Dragon arriving late with a person of some kind happens. There's at least 4 possibilities of who that could be in my eyes: Bluejam, a random civilian, a random pirate, or Sabo. Out of these, Sabo is the likeliest candidate.You state that Sabo would probably write back to Luffy and Ace so they would know how he's doing. Yes, I agree with that but there could be outside reasons to why he's hasn't done so. Maybe he thinks that they've been dead and when Ace set out to sea, was proven wrong? Maybe he just isn't allowed to make contact with them because of Dragon. There isn't anything to base this on but there has to be some reason he wasn't able to if he was alive.
Oh and remember this, never pull out the "IT'S MY OPINION!!" card here. Here, it's not an unbreakable scapegoat that you can use to have some safeguard over your opinion. And another thing, this is the internet. Someone could say anything any way they want and it can still have valid points in it whether it be "immature" or not.
I'll say it again: Sabo's not equivalent to any other flashback character we've met. He really wasn't necessary - what we knew about Ace and Luffy's childhood before seemed sufficient. He wasn't central to Ace or Luffy's goals. He also had a subplot that was completely unrelated to his brothers.
Setting out when they become 17 and to become the freest person in the ocean.
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@Translation by Aohige:
Narrator: Going back a few…
The night the Celestial Dragons ships arrived at the Kingdom of Goa...Child: Did you see earlier today? Huge faced man!! Look over there, even their ship is huge
Child lifting a boulder: 580…. 581Narrator: A small harbor village somewhere in the East Blue
Ivankov: You're late Dragon!!! How long are you gonna make me wait!?
Dragon: sorry
Ivankov: Oh….!
Crew: Hey!! treat him immediately!!Dragon: What about food?
Crew: The village was kind enough to share us some.Dragon: Let's set sail then. We're returning to Vertigo!!
Now read the bold parts and THINK. It's as easy as that.
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@Mr.:
Chapter 589 page 7
[hide]Look, it's Zoro! :DTashigiKuina too!! :O //
http://img1.mangareader.net/manga/one-piece/1409094_e.jpg[/hide]
The narration box clearly tells us that it's skipped back to the night when the Celestial Dragons arrived in the Goa Kingdom, the same day they shot down Sabo. The page itself shows Dragon arriving back at his ship with, supposedly, Ivankov yelling at him for being late. He then says to get the first aid so that they could treat what sounds like heavy wounds. Remember that the Grey Terminal fire happened at least the night before the Celestial Dragon's arrival so it's impossible for it to be one of the civilians. Also, Dragon managed to save many of them the actual night when the fire occurred so it has to have been someone else that he's brought back. At the bottom of the page Dragon orders his crew to immediately set sail for Baltigo/Vertigo, which is located in the Grand Line. Now if it were Sabo on that ship he's most likely not recovered until maybe the time they arrive on the Grand Line.Now take account of his page. Chapter 586 page 19
[hide]http://img1.mangareader.net/manga/one-piece/1353481_e.jpg
^^WILL THEY SURVIVE? Gotta love Jump sometimes.[/hide]
Dragon has already had a run in with Sabo before. The (assuming it happened the next day) following day, Sabo sets out for sea during the Celestial Dragon's arrival, gets shot, and is apparently "killed" in the eyes of Dogura. That SAME DAY the events of Dragon arriving late with a person of some kind happens. There's at least 4 possibilities of who that could be in my eyes: Bluejam, a random civilian, a random pirate, or Sabo. Out of these, Sabo is the likeliest candidate.Thank you to all for posting the page with this. I honestly read this on onemanga a couple weeks ago and I think I assumed at the time this was Bluejam. Don't know why but I did. I immediately again as I have explained before believed that Sabo's death would propel the emotional bond between the Luffy and Ace.
@Mr.:
You state that Sabo would probably write back to Luffy and Ace so they would know how he's doing. Yes, I agree with that but there could be outside reasons to why he's hasn't done so. Maybe he thinks that they've been dead and when Ace set out to sea, was proven wrong? Maybe he just isn't allowed to make contact with them because of Dragon. There isn't anything to base this on but there has to be some reason he wasn't able to if he was alive.
Agreed with this. Again I based my assumptions/opinions off of what I "thought" Sabo would be like.
@Mr.:
Oh and remember this, never pull out the "IT'S MY OPINION!!" card here. Here, it's not an unbreakable scapegoat that you can use to have some safeguard over your opinion. And another thing, this is the internet. Someone could say anything any way they want and it can still have valid points in it whether it be "immature" or not.
Lol, totally understand this. I guess I'm very used to other forums that encourage debate. I'm used to a debate where opinions are held as just that… an opinion. Where most people tend to respect it as .. ok you have your belief I have mine and its set out as like I said "opinion". I guess I'll just have to get used to a different style of forum. My apologies for using it as a "scapegoat". That was not my intention.
And again agreed on the fact it is the internet. But as I stated many times to loled - I respected that he had a valid point/opinion. Not once did I say that his point was wrong. I simply asked for proof.Which eventually once others entered the discussion I got. It doesn't discount the fact he was immature. I did not say that he was wrong b/c he was immature. I simply stated his way of responding was immature.
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@Mr.:
There's at least 4 possibilities of who that could be in my eyes: Bluejam, a random civilian, a random pirate, or Sabo. Out of these, Sabo is the likeliest candidate.
Dragon giving first-aid to Kuma because he tripped earlier is the likeliest candidate.
Followed by Bluejam.
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I guess I tend to look at the emotional bonds of the three of them, and how the death affected both Luffy and Ace and took from that what I would.
It's not that I think that Sabo had no affect on them - it's that we can only see it in retrospect. It gives us another perspective, but doesn't answer any mystery and doesn't add anything to the main plot. I suppose I'm looking at it from analytical point of view. For example, why did Kuina exist? Her death gave Zoro the goal to become the greatest swordsman. But there's no clear answer about Sabo. Luffy and Ace still would have been brothers. The scene after they find out about Sabo is interesting, but it didn't change the course of their lives - they had already decided to be pirates anyway. It was sad, but it isn't part of their core motivations like the promise with Shanks or Ace's birthright.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
You state that Sabo would probably write back to Luffy and Ace so they would know how he's doing. Yes, I agree with that but there could be outside reasons to why he's hasn't done so. Maybe he thinks that they've been dead and when Ace set out to sea, was proven wrong? Maybe he just isn't allowed to make contact with them because of Dragon. There isn't anything to base this on but there has to be some reason he wasn't able to if he was alive.
Or he just didn't know that they thought he was dead. He had already written goodbye to them. He wasn't waving to them when he was blown up. It was just a coincidence that Dogura was watching.
Setting out when they become 17 and to become the freest person in the ocean.
That's not a strong enough reason to introduce another brother to kill off when Luffy's already grieving for Ace. It's not like most people care why they left at 17. It is also implied that Luffy was talking about being the freest person back before Sabo (Shanks' conversation with Rayleigh.) We saw part of that scene back in the war and I never suspected another brother. After all, Ace had more than enough motivation to come to that conclusion. Like I said above, it sort of explains things in retrospect, but wasn't necessary. Especially considering how much of Sabo's part was unrelated to Ace and Luffy.
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Edit: I'll find the damn page with Dragon since you seem to need it despite reading the latest stuff "several times"
[hide]
http://img1.mangareader.net/manga/one-piece/1409094_e.jpg
On this page Dragon comes back to his ship ("you're late") with someone needing first aid because "These (wounds) are terrible". This takes place the night Sabo's boat was shot. They had the fire rescuees on the boat for a few days at this point, so who else but Sabo did Dragon bring back.[/hide]okay, and based on this page from 588
[hide] http://img1.mangareader.net/manga/one-piece/1377200_e.jpg
[/hide]it's around 8-9am when they find out Sabo is dead, so that gives Dragon a 3-4 hour period to happen upon sabo, decide to pick him up, and get to zoro's island. That's of course assuming Dragon would want to stick around chance getting seen by the marines and not shove off immediately after saving everyone from the fire.
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Dragon giving first-aid to Kuma because he tripped earlier is the likeliest candidate.
Followed by Bluejam.
Dammit, how could I forget about that? I guess the injuries were so fatal that he had to become a cyborg under the control of the WG to live. :sad:
@Mikan:Or he just didn't know that they thought he was dead. He had already written goodbye to them. He wasn't waving to them when he was blown up. It was just a coincidence that Dogura was watching.
That would make sense. Since he's doing fine and has already sent a farewell letter to them earlier it would make sense for him to not write again.
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It's not that I think that Sabo had no affect on them - it's that we can only see it in retrospect. It gives us another perspective, but doesn't answer any mystery and doesn't add anything to the main plot. I suppose I'm looking at it from analytical point of view. For example, why did Kuina exist? Her death gave Zoro the goal to become the greatest swordsman. But there's no clear answer about Sabo. Luffy and Ace still would have been brothers. The scene after they find out about Sabo is interesting, but it didn't change the course of their lives - they had already decided to be pirates anyway. It was sad, but it isn't part of their core motivations like the promise with Shanks or Ace's birthright.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.Hehe I actually meant that I agreed with you earlier. I just meant that I might have taken too much out of it in an emotional sense. I should have been more clear with my words. You made a very valid point and I definitely see your side of it.
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@Mr.:
Dammit, how could I forget about that? I guess the injuries were so fatal that he had to become a cyborg under the control of the WG to live. :sad:
That explains so much! Kuma always been a mystery for me.
Thanks for clearing that up.
okay, and based on this page from 588
[hide] http://img1.mangareader.net/manga/one-piece/1377200_e.jpg
[/hide]it's around 8-9am when they find out Sabo is dead, so that gives Dragon a 3-4 hour period to happen upon sabo, decide to pick him up, and get to zoro's island. That's of course assuming Dragon would want to stick around chance getting seen by the marines and not shove off immediately after saving everyone from the fire.
You know I read the page you link didn't see a time, only time reference I saw was the sun and don't even know if its rising or setting.
Yeah marines definitely make Dragon run for his life, even with Ivan-san and Kuma by his side. I agree I think the most wanted man in the world is nothing but a pansy.
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That explains so much! Kuma always been a mystery for me.
Thanks for clearing that up.
You know I read the page you link didn't see a time, only time reference I saw was the sun and don't even know if its rising or setting.
Yeah marines definitely make Dragon run for his life, even with Ivan-san and Kuma by his side. I agree I think the most wanted man in the world is nothing but a pansy.
This was 10 years ago, not everyone was as powerful as we know them now. Also I don't know if you remember this, but when someone dangerous is around the world nobles they bust out the big guns pretty quickly, and as for the time if the sun was setting then that means the little guy took half a day to go from the town to the mountain directly behind the town. If we're assuming of course that the world nobles even came in the morning. If they didn't then Sabo is definitely dead since Dragon and company arrived at the town around noon.
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This was 10 years ago, not everyone was as powerful as we know them now. Also I don't know if you remember this, but when someone dangerous is around the world nobles they bust out the big guns pretty quickly, and as for the time if the sun was setting then that means the little guy took half a day to go from the town to the mountain directly behind the town. If we're assuming of course that the world nobles even came in the morning. If they didn't then Sabo is definitely dead since Dragon and company arrived at the town around noon.
You can't possible believe Sabo is alive based on a sunset pic…?
Insert biggest facepalm ever.
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This was 10 years ago, not everyone was as powerful as we know them now.
The marines sent there were probably fodders, even if Dragon wasn't as strong as he is now, he wouldn't fear them. Eastblue is the weakest sea, they would never send an admiral in a place like that, and that would be the only thing that can stop Dragon.
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Hehe I actually meant that I agreed with you earlier. I just meant that I might have taken too much out of it in an emotional sense. I should have been more clear with my words. You made a very valid point and I definitely see your side of it.
Sorry, I read your post wrong.That's of course assuming Dragon would want to stick around chance getting seen by the marines and not shove off immediately after saving everyone from the fire.
Why would it matter if he was seen? This all happened ten years ago. It wasn't until 6 years before the present timeline that he was even considered a threat. And even if he did have some minor notoriety, there was a huge crowd to blend into (and it's not like he was really concerned about marines in Loguetown - they didn't even notice him until he gave himself away.)
no, it said that Dragon arrived at Zoro's town 'around lunch time' the day the world nobles arrived,
Wait, where did you get that? It says "night of the day of the Tenryuubito's arrival." Also, there sky is dark and there's a moon. It's not lunchtime.
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no, it said that Dragon arrived at Zoro's town 'around lunch time' the day the world nobles arrived, so unless Dragon waited around for the most protected people in the world to show up before setting off, and then sailed his ship right in front of a town and just happened to see a seemingly dead body in the water and thought "oh, let's pick up that body and just double check it's dead" then i'm not seeing how they would've even gathered up sabo TO treat him
I think you're reading a bad translation. Anyway, it's not a stretch at all that Dragon stayed behind or headed back to Goa and happened to see everything that went down with Sabo and the world nobles and then saved him. Since Dragon did bring someone back.
Hiruluk
Was going to die anyway
buster call
Death of no name Oharans.
No surprise you can't tell the difference between Sabo and them.
cause it's not like Ivankov has ever healed someone back from a seemingly fatal state before (i'm talking about luffy)
Yeah, Iva drugged a 10 year old just to heal him or decided to take 10 years off of his life. I remember when he did the same to Inazuma just cuz he was hur- oh wait.
Pell should've died from an explosion that would've killed everyone in a 5km radius that he took directly so I was just saying that if Sabo is brought back la-dee-da "oh I survived the cannonball to the face in a flashback" and that's it then i'll still think he should be dead.
Doesn't matter if you think he should've died. He didn't die. Usopp should've died plenty times in the manga but he didn't. You applying any real life reasoning as far as distance and it being an explosion for why Pell should be dead is laughable. You'd at least be credible if you approached it from a story telling perspective.
Not to mention we didn't see a cannonball hit Sabo's face.
also you acting super obnoxious in all your posts isn't helping your case at all, just making you look like an ass
Also you acting extremely obstinate and clueless to obvious hints by Oda in all your posts isn't helping your case at all, just making you look like a dumbass that needs to be spoon fed every detail and upcoming event in the story due to your on shortcomings in the area of common sense and reason.
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This was 10 years ago, not everyone was as powerful as we know them now. Also I don't know if you remember this, but when someone dangerous is around the world nobles they bust out the big guns pretty quickly, and as for the time if the sun was setting then that means the little guy took half a day to go from the town to the mountain directly behind the town. If we're assuming of course that the world nobles even came in the morning. If they didn't then Sabo is definitely dead since Dragon and company arrived at the town around noon.
To my understanding Dragon was Dragon even back 20 years ago as shown in chapter 0.
They bust out the big guns if someone assaults the nobles. A Admiral ain't going to be dispatched for every little thing a Noble complains about. Ivan-san didn't show any hesitation fighting Kizura during the war.
Speaking of the time what makes you so sure you can use it as reference? I still don't see it whether is setting or rising. Also on the time subject where are you getting the info or say your estimates on how long it takes them to travel through the island?
Look it's simple Sabo character got introduced and shown on how he vanished from Luffy's life. So later when he does appear were not like asking "Who the hell is this guy? Why is he calling Luffy his brother?".
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Question.. has anyone translated the Kanji on the paper the monkey is holding on the cover?
And on another note I'm wonder if the Marines have some other military force.. sort of a "counter terrorism" unit based solely on fighting the Revolutionaries, or maybe there are independent Kingdom armies they they're sided with. Alabasta had a massive army. And it would make sense they'd be against the revolutionaries because they don't want to be deposed.. so maybe the WG and maybe allied kingdoms set a trap or something. I can't see the Tenryus and WG having all their trump cards revealed already, especially after revealing Kong.
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@Zik:
Not to mention we didn't see a cannonball hit Sabo's face.
okay, let's play it your way then. To make thing simple for you, I made up a pretty picture for you to follow, and even used bright colors so you don't get bored and stop looking at it
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@Zik:Doesn't matter if you think he should've died. He didn't die. Usopp should've died plenty times in the manga but he didn't.
Sabo is a kid in a flashback we've never heard of before and Usopp is a main character
No surprise you can't tell the difference between Usopp and him.
@Zik:
Yeah, Iva drugged a 10 year old just to heal him or decided to take 10 years off of his life. I remember when he did the same to Inazuma just cuz he was hur- oh wait.
There's a difference between what happened to inazuma and what happened to Sabo, and as you might remember smaller things are much deadlier in flashbacks than in current times. Like falling down stairs in a one-story dojo.
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Question.. has anyone translated the Kanji on the paper the monkey is holding on the cover?
considering it's Luffy and co, and they're running from a cook i'm going to assume it has something to do with the treasure tab joke again.
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wewacian: So in your timeline theory, exactly who does Dragon bring back to the boat? And why does Oda go to the bother of marking it as the day of the Tenryuubito's arrival?
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So wewacian is the only member that still believes Sabo is dead? He must be a genious, and all of us are idiots.
Right.
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wewacian: So in your timeline theory, exactly who does Dragon bring back to the boat? And why does Oda go to the bother of marking it as the day of the Tenryuubito's arrival?
He brought the people from the trash fire, surely they must've had some burns being so close to the roaring inferno, and Oda marks time like that alot, especially in recent chapters. I don't think it has any particular significance.
@Del:
So wewacian is the only member that still believes Sabo is dead? He must be a genious, and all of us are idiots.
Right.
I never said people who thought differently than me were idiots, just saying that I believe Sabo is dead. I'm just saying I won't buy into this theory until it has some better legs to stand on than these circumstantial occurances and something that goes against typical flashback rules like someone actually surviving a deadly attack.
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He brought the people from the trash fire, surely they must've had some burns being so close to the roaring inferno, and Oda marks time like that alot, especially in recent chapters. I don't think it has any particular significance.
I never said people who thought differently than me were idiots, just saying that I believe Sabo is dead. I'm just saying I won't buy into this theory until it has some better legs to stand on than these circumstantial occurances and something that goes against typical flashback rules like someone actually surviving a deadly attack.
Yeah because Oda drew a panel on just random burned survivors from a fire incident that happen days before. And not on the character that had a panel to himself of a suspenseful unclear death. Not to mention a character who had a encounter with Dragon during the fire. That actually has a name instead of "people from the trash fire".
You don't have to buy it, its not a theory. It's more on the lines of obvious, once you remove your Sabo is dead because not confirmed yet helmet. And see all the things everyone has brought up for you then remember one piece is a story aimed for adults. It all becomes clear.
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Question.. has anyone translated the Kanji on the paper the monkey is holding on the cover?
yes, I asked my dh to do so, and posted it in the spoiler thread, where people read it and then posted it in the first 2-5 pages of this thread, lol.
considering it's Luffy and co, and they're running from a cook i'm going to assume it has something to do with the treasure tab joke again.
good guess–that's precisely what it says; "treasure credit."
Oh and FTR, since I didn't post it at the time and forget if I read it anywhere, the kanji behind Sengoku and Garp on their cover a few chapters back said "Heros"
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Guys, I hear it's good when rescuing people from a fire to leave a few behind to pick up later and treat their serious but days old injuries.
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@I:
Oh and FTR, since I didn't post it at the time and forget if I read it anywhere, the kanji behind Sengoku and Garp on their cover a few chapters back said "Heros"
Thats fitting..even more so when we see them play around on the cover like childs, instead of heros:happy:
Unrevealed: Loki/Rocks/the man marked by flames/Im-san
Island: Elbaf/Raftel/GodValley
Unresolved: Weevil´s plan/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan
DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop
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He brought the people from the trash fire, surely they must've had some burns being so close to the roaring inferno, and Oda marks time like that alot, especially in recent chapters. I don't think it has any particular significance.
As others have pointed out, it's long after the fire - they would have already gotten everyone who could be saved out. And why bother with that page at all if it's random fodder? There's no point in going back in time for one page (a very specific time period) and going to the bother of showing him helping someone if it's someone we never met before.
