It's a good deal for Buggy, since he was so worried about the government coming after him once his identity was revealed.
Chapter 595: "Oath" Discussion
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That's basically what I just said. "Wait for the right candidates". All they have to do is believe Buggy would fit that position, and based on what we know they think they know, he does. He was a Roger Pirate, and the only known Roger Pirates are all legendary pirates (Shanks, Rayleigh), all of whom had been through the New World before and even been to Raftel.
yeah I have to agree that Buggy looks like a prime candidate…
I even think he only has to give the appearance of being prime--I could see the Gorousei, under certain circumstances, choosing him even if they know he is weak in reality, because they need the appearance of being strong, and could covertly offer him assistance if they needed...
...but the fact is that sometimes it seems too prefect, if you will. It's because of all this that it could make a funny gag, but it's because of this that it could be something else entirely–I just can't entirely give up the idea that Oda could be playing a bit of a joke on us within the whole Buggy joke, (and it's even conceivable that it could still eventually lead to the invitation later, lol.)
Eh... I need the new chapter. I'm thinking too much. LOL
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So based on last time, the next chapter is likely to feature 4 of the strawhats before this timeskip.
Who does everyone want to see in the next chapter?
I wanna see Brook, Usopp Zoro and Robin :) -
Nami, Zoro, Nami, and Robin.
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@I:
yeah I have to agree that Buggy looks like a prime candidate…
I even think he only has to give the appearance of being prime--I could see the Gorousei, under certain circumstances, choosing him even if they know he is weak in reality, because they need the appearance of being strong, and could covertly offer him assistance if they needed...
...but the fact is that sometimes it seems too prefect, if you will. It's because of all this that it could make a funny gag, but it's because of this that it could be something else entirely–I just can't entirely give up the idea that Oda could be playing a bit of a joke on us within the whole Buggy joke, (and it's even conceivable that it could still eventually lead to the invitation later, lol.)
Eh... I need the new chapter. I'm thinking too much. LOL
At this point it seems like something the Gorousei would do. I imagine they're pretty desperate to save face right now. or salvage the scraps of it that are left. but yeah, I bet Oda is playing a joke on us. It would be so like him… like that time when he said one of the Strawhats would die. :cwy:
New chapter is going to be so good. The more we try not the think about it, the more we think about. it's so aggravating! good thing there's the tournament to distract us otherwise we'd go completely crazy.
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Who does everyone want to see in the next chapter?
Brook, to see what the slave market will provide him other than a ticket to Sabaody, Robin, for possibly insight to the history of the world or such, Usopp, since he doesn't even have a mode of transportation off of the island/Sarlacc, and uh, either Franky or Nami.
~Stargazer~, ~Distance~ original stories.
3DS Friend Code: 2234-8294-8917
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That's basically what I just said. "Wait for the right candidates". All they have to do is believe Buggy would fit that position, and based on what we know they think they know, he does. He was a Roger Pirate, and the only known Roger Pirates are all legendary pirates (Shanks, Rayleigh), all of whom had been through the New World before and even been to Raftel.
so then you are under the idea that they asked buggy?
so then when did this elder stars discussion take place? according to manga it appears that it took place AFTER buggy got a letter, and nothing whatsoever indicating anything different
thus:
Did Buggy turn down the offer?
or else
How come they still said 3 positions to fill? -
Brook, to see what the slave market will provide him other than a ticket to Sabaody, Robin, for possibly insight to the history of the world or such, Usopp, since he doesn't even have a mode of transportation off of the island/Sarlacc, and uh, either Franky or Nami.
This pretty much, except I'm torn between seeing Franky's upgrades or seeing Zoro (and potentially eliminating Perona theorists) for the last of the four.
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So then when did this Elder Stars discussion take place?
Before Buggy received the message. This is now the third time in the past five or so pages I have said this, but Buggy's scene would be a flash-forward to throw us off the trail.
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Before Buggy received the message. This is now the third time in the past five or so pages I have said this, but Buggy's scene would be a flash-forward to throw us off the trail.
and i ask, when has this ever happened in one piece?
you can't just randomly say that we have time skipping of scenes in order to fit an argument.
we have only ever shown current time events or past events.
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and i ask, when has this ever happened in one piece?
you can't just randomly say that we have time skipping of scenes in order to fit an argument.
we have only ever shown current time events or past events.
It will have happened when it has happened :ninja:.
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just seems dumb, everyone and their brother was guessing "OMG Buggy for warlord" and then Oda goes and puts up next page and is like "ha, made you all think i was asking buggy to be warlord, but we still need to fill 3 positions." so unless someone else besides moria, jimbei and blackbeard lost their title, then buggy isn't a warlord
yet your thinking that Oda is going like "if i show a future of buggy getting asked, before a past event is shown, they will think that he wasn't asked, when in fact he will be asked. I made them think i asked buggy, to later show i didn't, yet that was all a ruse because i show that he WILL be asked later"
now where are my butterfly wings
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Well I'm quite sure Buggy denied the invitation if it even was an invitation.
Let's just wait and see. -
So based on last time, the next chapter is likely to feature 4 of the strawhats before this timeskip.
Who does everyone want to see in the next chapter?
I wanna see Brook, Usopp Zoro and Robin :)Want to see? Everyone. That's not going to happen, so here is my thoery:
I'm guessing Robin and Zoro will actually be the last two we see, with one or both explaining the messege that Luffy sent.
With that in mind, I'd say the other four will be who we see in this chapter, if we do in fact get 4 in this chapter, which I'm not convinced will be the case. If there's only 2, I'd guess Nami and … I'm not really sure about the second, so I'll just guess - Usopp.I did have a second theory sort of pop into my head last night though, that the order they're being shown isn't random, but decided by when they joined the crew (though not in the order that they joined, obviously). We saw Chopper (5) and Sanji (4) last time, so under this theory the rest of the order would be Robin, Usopp, Franky, Nami, Brook, Zoro.
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just seems dumb to me.
its like we saw buggy get a letter from WG, then next page we see the elder stars going "hey you have a birthday this weekend, who should we invite"
and you guys are going, they had already invited buggy but he refused, or else saying that Oda randomly showed us buggy accepting the invitation in the future, but put it before the elder stars page for the sole purpose of THROWING us off.
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just seems dumb to me.
its like we saw buggy get a letter from WG, then next page we see the elder stars going "hey you have a birthday this weekend, who should we invite"
and you guys are going, they had already invited buggy but he refused, or else saying that Oda randomly showed us buggy accepting the invitation in the future, but put it before the elder stars page for the sole purpose of THROWING us off.
Is'nt it possible that the talk was after Buggy got the letter yet before his reply?
Which are you suggesting though? Buggy won't be a warlord, or 4 warlords positions need to be filled? -
Want to see? Everyone. That's not going to happen, so here is my thoery:
I'm guessing Robin and Zoro will actually be the last two we see, with one or both explaining the messege that Luffy sent.
With that in mind, I'd say the other four will be who we see in this chapter, if we do in fact get 4 in this chapter, which I'm not convinced will be the case. If there's only 2, I'd guess Nami and … I'm not really sure about the second, so I'll just guess - Usopp.I did have a second theory sort of pop into my head last night though, that the order they're being shown isn't random, but decided by when they joined the crew (though not in the order that they joined, obviously). We saw Chopper (5) and Sanji (4) last time, so under this theory the rest of the order would be Robin, Usopp, Franky, Nami, Brook, Zoro.
well not going to guess on who is shown in what order cause really who gives a shit.
but as for guess on chapters content i will guess. so far we have seen chopper and sanji, so 2 down and 6 to go.
596: shows i would say 4-5 strawhats similar to how chopper and sanji where shown. showing their determination to power up or whatever.
597: shows 1-2 last remaining strawhats and then shows what luffy is going to do.
598: shows more world stuff going on, you know Kuma at Sunny. depending on how skip, possible new warlords, ect. crap like that. ends with one of the strawhats just finishing up his training
599: shows all the strawhats just finishing up and hoping on boats or whatever
600: they finally all meet back up and see luffy, whether this is shabondy or amazon lily doesn't matter.
Is'nt it possible that the talk was after Buggy got the letter yet before his reply?
Which are you suggesting though? Buggy won't be a warlord, or 4 warlords positions need to be filled?I'm suggesting that they did not ask Buggy to be a warlord, OR he already refused it. Leaning towards the former, due to them wanting to wait and see how people fare in New World and what not.
If it was an invitation and Buggy accepted it, then that means that they needed to originally fill four positions.
There is no random timeline shit going on.
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And I ask, when has this ever happened in One Piece?
Well, I'm sure there are other examples, but a minor example of that would be [[URL="http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-466/page015.html"]here]. Granted it isn't exactly the same; it wasn't used as a cliffhanger, it was just used to make us think Zoro lost the fight, then immediately went to "5 minutes earlier".
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Well, I'm sure there are other examples, but a minor example of that would be [[URL="http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-466/page015.html"]here]. Granted it isn't exactly the same; it wasn't used as a cliffhanger, it was just used to make us think Zoro lost the fight, then immediately went to "5 minutes earlier".
thats not the same at all. That page was a CURRENT page, current timeline. It finished same time that Usopp finished his fight.
the next chapter was a flashback. The elder stars thing was not shown as a flashback. There has never been a future page EVER shown. Its all either been current time pages or distinguishable flashback pages.
hell the buggy letter taking place AFTER the meeting makes as much sense as Aizen having the Hogyouku last chapter in that flashback.
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Well, I'm sure there are other examples, but a minor example of that would be [[URL="http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-466/page015.html"]here]. Granted it isn't exactly the same; it wasn't used as a cliffhanger, it was just used to make us think Zoro lost the fight, then immediately went to "5 minutes earlier".
The thing is…there is a box saying "5 minutes ago"....
My 3DS FC: 0361 - 7494 - 3910
My 3DS FC: 0361 - 7494 - 3910 -
The thing is…there is a box saying "5 minutes ago"....
exactly, all non current events are labeled with a box saying how long AGO they were, or else they are the shaded flashback thingy.
there has never been a months from now box or anything of that sort.
could it happen now? yea sure it could, but it would be like me arguing that perona must join because she has a sad past that just hasn't been shown yet.
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I can see three things happening…
1. The message was just a first contact, maybe an invitation to a formal conversation, like the meeting where Lafitte showed up....
2. Other of the Shichibukai left it's position, Buggy accepted his invitation, so they still have 3 seats left...
3. It has nothing to do with the Shichibukai seats... -
In Oda… This is so hilarious.
Usually I am into discussions when there is a break but with the last chapter and with what's going on…I kept myself away from throwing my 2 cents in.
There are so many possibilities with what Oda has brought to the table that it is stupid for anyone to argue over speculations and fan dreams.
Your idea might be good, hell it might even work and fit into the story....doesn't make it the least bit better or true.
Timeskip? Hell yeah Oda, bring that bitch on.
Buggy = Shichibukai because of Oda playing tetris with time....ummm.....hmmm.....
Chapter 600 = Crew Reunion = Fan Dream
It's these type of chapters that make OP even more amazing in my eyes. There are many things I do not know, but one thing I do know....is that I will be 100% satisfied and jizztastic over wherever Oda decides to bring this story.
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It could be an invitation to perform at a WG party in celebration over their victory.
Buggy is a clown after all…just sayin' -
thats not the same at all. That page was a CURRENT page, current timeline. It finished same time that Usopp finished his fight. The next chapter was a flashback. Its all either been current time pages or distinguishable flashback pages.
The thing is…there is a box saying "5 minutes ago"....
I said it wasn't the same, and I also mentioned the box saying 5 minutes ago. Why are you two telling me what I just said? The point is, Oda used a flash-forward in that scene. It's a literary device, where a future event breaks up the chronological order of the story; you aren't supposed to understand what the scene means completely until you see what lead up to it. The purpose in the Thriller Bark scene was to confuse the readers into thinking Zoro lost the fight. I admit the burden of proof is on me to find a better example within One Piece, but unless you are suggesting Oda is incapable of using such writing techniques, then my point still stands.
Lastly, I'm only offering this as an alternate suggestion. Nobody has a decent alternate theory for Buggy's message, and all things considered giving him the title makes a lot of sense, so a flash-forward could explain why the events happen in the order they do.
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I am guessing the WG send him a letter for RETURNING the Broken Out Prisoners. AS an exchange that he will be free to go.
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Lastly, I'm only offering this as an alternate suggestion. Nobody has a decent alternate theory for Buggy's message, and all things considered giving him the title makes a lot of sense, so a flash-forward could explain why the events happen in the order they do.
It IS the best theory so far, except maybe for mine 2 posts up.
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but unless you are suggesting Oda is incapable of using such writing techniques, then my point still stands.
The problem is Oda is a better writer than this, I could expect from someone else, but Oda's stories are very well sewed together, and a fast-forward without any indications is just bad writing….
More than that, why would he need to explicit say "We should first wait to see how the New World responds." (cnet translation) just to contradict himself....if it was the case he could easily have put the Buggy part after the time-skip and then it would make sense....a lot of sense...
My 3DS FC: 0361 - 7494 - 3910
My 3DS FC: 0361 - 7494 - 3910 -
What The F…
The problem is Oda is a better writer than this, I could expect from someone else, but Oda's stories are very well sewed together, and a fast-forward without any indications is just bad writing….
How in the hell.
Please, oh please, explain to me how using Flash-Forward in a story is evidence of bad writing. Have you even read something or even watched something that uses this device?
I am assuming not because flash-forwarding can lead to the set up of the greatest plot twists ever.
Breaking down an event backwards can be golden in story telling….have you not watched Memento (by Christopher Nolan) or even the show Flash Forward?
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Wasn't Flash Forward a failure?
~Stargazer~, ~Distance~ original stories.
3DS Friend Code: 2234-8294-8917
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so then you are under the idea that they asked buggy?
so then when did this elder stars discussion take place? according to manga it appears that it took place AFTER buggy got a letter, and nothing whatsoever indicating anything different
thus:
Did Buggy turn down the offer?
or else
How come they still said 3 positions to fill?As for a possible explanation on this:
Hancock, Moria, Blackbeard, and Jimbei all lost their seats as a result of the war and decisions by the WG. Buggy has been asked to fill one of the seats in order to keep all his prisoners he has under his control from causing chaos. Thus there are three seats left to fill. Since we see Smoker alive and conscious there is no reason to think he hasn't informed the marines and caused Hancock to lose her position for her behavior and his personality. This is all theoretical though, it's the only way I can think of to explain both Buggy becoming a SB and what the five elder stars said. -
In Whose Eyes?
Wasn't Flash Forward a failure?
Well the show was cancelled…yes...but I would not call the show a failure AT ALL. The Wifey and I were addicted to that show as it was actually a really good friggin' show.
Go to ABC's forum and see how many people are absolutely pissed about the cancellation.
So it really depends how one would consider something a failure. Was it not making the money expected? Yes. Was the because the show was horrible? Nope.
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A flash-forward simply makes no sense in this context. It breaks up the flow of the current storyline. It also is really silly and unnecessary - why go to the bother of having the Gorusei talk about waiting? Or why not wait until post-timeskip to show Buggy getting a letter? You're way overcomplicating the story.
Everyone was celebrating Buggy being a shichibukai when 593 came out, then Oda surprised us when he stated that the seats weren't going to filled yet. It's pretty straightforward. I don't have any theories about what it could be - it's more likely it'll be something we've never even thought about.
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Please, oh please, explain to me how using Flash-Forward in a story is evidence of bad writing. Have you even read something or even watched something that uses this device?
I am assuming not because flash-forwarding can lead to the set up of the greatest plot twists ever.
Breaking down an event backwards can be golden in story telling….have you not watched Memento (by Christopher Nolan) or even the show Flash Forward?
First - Memento is an all-time favorite of mine…never watched FF the series...
Second - I'm not saying that the use of a FF = bad writing....I just a matter of how it is used... There are no evidence that makes us think it is a FF, besides everybody wanting Buggy to be a Shichibukai no matter what...
Doing a FF without any hints or warning = bad writing...
Edit: Mikan pretty much summed up my feelings...
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In Whose Eyes?
Well the show was cancelled…yes...but I would not call the show a failure AT ALL. The Wifey and I were addicted to that show as it was actually a really good friggin' show.
Go to ABC's forum and see how many people are absolutely pissed about the cancellation.
So it really depends how one would consider something a failure. Was it not making the money expected? Yes. Was the because the show was horrible? Nope.
ha well lots of great shows get cancelled. such as firefly
but nothing wrong with a flashforward or wahtever it is called. i love boondock saints and they used them big time in that.
but this instance there is no indication at all that it was a flashforward, but lets say it was for arguments sake.
WHY did he need to do it? there was no purpose to doing a flashforward. with this seemingly confirmed time skip he could have easily had during some montague/timeskip/world happening a letter going to buggy, or kidd, or whoever, and that would make total sense and FLOW nicely.
if this was a flashforward, then in this instance then oda implemented it horribly this time
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The problem is Oda is a better writer than this, [..] and a flash-forward without any indications is just bad writing.
You're basically saying flash-forward's are bad writing. I'm not writer, but I see these scenes used a lot; LOST, Inception, and Momento come to mind. Remember, it isn't always obvious that the scene is a flash-forward until much later in the story.
More than that, why would he need to explicit say "We should first wait to see how the New World responds." just to contradict himself.
We see these types of arguments all the time on this forum, and Oda constantly turns them on our head. I'm not saying that will happen definitely, but it's not as if he has written himself into a corner with that line. Like I said earlier, in context he was just commenting that they shouldn't rush the decision for new Warlords, thinking they should wait and see how the New World reacts to all of the recent events. Furthermore, that was just one voice out of five throwing around ideas, so it wasn't even a firm decision made as a whole.
What I find interesting is that the World Government sent a messenger bat to Buggy, and yet there was no discussion about Buggy at the meeting for the Elder Stars. Buggy was a huge factor in the war, as big as Luffy in some ways, so why no mention of him?
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The events of the past chapters are either simultaneous or occurring concurrently. I doubt any are flash forwards. I'd think Oda would have to at least indicate that with the borders/frames of the page.
Makes no sense to do that and have the reader guess or figure out that a FF is what happened.
There's really no basis to say Oda did that. Just a possible option.
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Why go to the bother of having the Gorusei talk about waiting? Or why not wait until post-timeskip to show Buggy getting a letter? You're way overcomplicating the story. Everyone was celebrating Buggy being a shichibukai when 593 came out, then Oda surprised us when he stated that the seats weren't going to filled yet.
WHY did he need to do it? there was no purpose to doing a flashforward.
WHY did Oda show Zoro defeated before showing the whole fight? WHY do people ever use a flash-forward? Perhaps, just maybe, I dunno… could it be to throw the viewers off track???
Edit: Anyway, I agree that at this moment in time the scene being a flash-forward is a bit awkward, as nothing at all indicates it is a future event rather than a current event, which is why I've pointed out before that I only suggested it as an alternate theory for how Buggy being offered a Warlord position could work. Buggy's scene didn't even have a newspaper like ALL the other scenes did, so there was nothing to denote when it would have taken place.
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WHY did Oda show Zoro defeated before showing the whole fight? WHY do people ever use a flash-forward? Perhaps, just maybe, I dunno… could it be to throw the viewers off track???
though flashforwards are LABELED when they happen, or else they are shown how they happened right away.
bring one example in any story, game, movie, book, manga, ect that has ever had a flashforward that wasn't known as one.
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WHY did Oda show Zoro defeated before showing the whole fight? WHY do people ever use a flash-forward? Perhaps, just maybe, I dunno… could it be to throw the viewers off track???
Sammsy convinces me once again with his superb logic.
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guys guys i just recognized (again of course, but still.. yay !);
5 chapters till 600 ! :D -
A flash-forward simply makes no sense in this context. It breaks up the flow of the current storyline. It also is really silly and unnecessary - why go to the bother of having the Gorusei talk about waiting? Or why not wait until post-timeskip to show Buggy getting a letter? You're way overcomplicating the story.
Everyone was celebrating Buggy being a shichibukai when 593 came out, then Oda surprised us when he stated that the seats weren't going to filled yet. It's pretty straightforward. I don't have any theories about what it could be - it's more likely it'll be something we've never even thought about.
Well if Buggy get's a letter at the post-timeskip, it would be stupid because everything were seeing here is a development of what will happen after the timeskip. It would make sense for the Shichibukai seats to be filled after the timeskip.
Currently writing a book
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brennen, I'll repeat myself in this one… but I'm not talking about all kinds of FF being bad writing... It's just my opinion in this particular case...
I can be wrong, and I'm not saying my opinion is the right one, it is just odd for Oda to throw us off doing this...Oda does not trick the readers, he always inserts a lot of hints about the stuff he will write...once he unveils it, you can easily go back and say, "It was right in front of me and I didn't see it..."But, in this case you have...
- Buggy's part, who fits right after the war, since he is being welcomed back and all (you can argue he stayed lost for some time...ok)
- Gorousei part, who also fits right after the war, where they say "We will wait". why would Oda insert this conversation if they just invited Buggy....
That's all, don't get me wrong....I want to be off in this one...I want Buggy to be a Shichibukai....but I don't think he will right now...
My 3DS FC: 0361 - 7494 - 3910
My 3DS FC: 0361 - 7494 - 3910 -
@joekido:
Well if Buggy get's a letter at the post-timeskip, it would be stupid because everything were seeing here is a development of what will happen after the timeskip. It would make sense for the Shichibukai seats to be filled after the timeskip.
No time for that… After the POSSIBLE time skip we will first have an AL-arc
But seriously the letter was from Moria himself
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WHY did Oda show Zoro defeated before showing the whole fight? WHY do people ever use a flash-forward? Perhaps, just maybe, I dunno… could it be to throw the viewers off track???
With Zoro, it was in the middle of a fight. The scene added dramatic tension. With this, it would just be redundant. If the Gorusei mentioned that they were waiting to fill the three seats (and Buggy didn't have his appearance) we'd be curious and Buggy would still be in the debate (due to their 'influence' line.) When Buggy got the letter, we were curious and jumping to conclusions. Having a flashforward just convolutes the whole thing unnecessarily - it didn't need tension or confusion.
Also, Zoro's flashforward was a few minutes. It would have to be at least a month or so for this Buggy flashforward, which isn't supported by anything in the dialogue or scenery. And it was the focal point of those chapters - Buggy's appearance is just one of many plot points/events brought up in that chapter.
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brennen, I'll repeat myself in this one… but I'm not talking about all kinds of FF being bad writing... It's just my opinion in this particular case...
I can be wrong, and I'm not saying my opinion is the right one, it is just odd for Oda to throw us off doing this...Oda does not trick the readers, he always inserts a lot of hints about the stuff he will write...once he unveils it, you can easily go back and say, "It was right in front of me and I didn't see it..."But, in this case you have...
- Buggy's part, who fits right after the war, since he is being welcomed back and all (you can argue he stayed lost for some time...ok)
- Gorousei part, who also fits right after the war, where they say "We will wait". why would Oda insert this conversation if they just invited Buggy….
That's all, don't get me wrong….I want to be off in this one...I want Buggy to be a Shichibukai....but I don't think he will right now...
Because he hasn't answered yet?
Not saying he will be for sure a Shichibukai but discussing this matter cuz of the timeline is bullshit if you could explain it simple.
And what suprise would it be, If the Gorosei right away would say… Ahh we invited Buggy already so only 2... If they aren't sure that he accepts.
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I can be wrong, and I'm not saying my opinion is the right one, it is just odd for Oda to throw us off doing this.
Same. I'm only discussing this because it was brought up; I'm not completely convinced it is the case or anything. It all depends on how Oda handles the answer of the message, because for all we know Buggy could be in the next chapter the same way a ton of other people have been given additional panel time. As I've said, I'm only offering an alternate suggestion for how it could still work.
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Because he hasn't answered yet?
Not saying he will be for sure a Shichibukai but discussing this matter cuz of the timeline is bullshit if you could explain it simple.
And what suprise would it be, If the Gorosei right away would say… Ahh we invited Buggy already so only 2... If they aren't sure that he accepts.
You're going out of the discussion in here, the exactly line is:
"How will we go about filling the three empty seats in the Shichibukai?
We should first wait to see how the New World responds."My 3DS FC: 0361 - 7494 - 3910
My 3DS FC: 0361 - 7494 - 3910 -
You're going out of the discussion in here, the exactly line is:
"How will we go about filling the three empty seats in the Shichibukai?
We should first wait to see how the New World responds."Ahh yeah forgot… I hold to my theory that the letter is from Moria xD
