I've always been under the impression that the destination of Kuma's ability is determined by the affected, and this chapter (translation) just seemed to reaffirm that for me so far.
Plus, Moria said "I already know that trick" when Kuma asked him where he wanted to go in a vacation
It doesn't make any sense though, how could that be in any way related to a "pushing" technique?
I hate thinking this but I just can't help it… The last page make me think about a new bounty for Luffy...
Anyone shares this idea with me? I know is a lame idea but that's all I've got.
PS. Sorry if some one already said this.
Urouge brother. Here's what you've hit me with.
"What? Why would Kuma send Luffy to someplace where he could die or never escape?"
followed by
"What? Why would Kuma send Luffy to someplace he could escape?"
These mixed signals are confusing and…hurting me quite frankly. You know I wear my heart on my sleeve.
Mentioned this before but a number of factors seemed to play into where everyone was sent. Distance from ground zero, what they're capable of overcoming, opportunities to improve themselves and so forth.
As has been mentioned before, for Luffy, Amazon Lily was filled with nothing but opportunity for Luffy.
Why didn't he send him to some place in WBlue? Maybe there's no place suitable there that could help him properly train Haki (if indeed that was one goal). How did Kuma know Luffy had Haki? He probably didn't, but perhaps he thought the experience in surviving a tribe of warriors that depend on it, might open his eyes.
Or...he had no idea where he was sending them.
At this stage the burden of truth lies with those saying Kuma doesn't know because everything else just makes sense.
Look, if the Japanese community was up in arms that might be one thing.
But all that has happened here is Aohige basically said:
"Oh…I guess you could read it that way…"
HOLY TIT-FUCKS! CALL THE NEW YORK TIMES!!!!! IT COULD BE READ THAT WAY! KUMA NEVER HAD ANY IDEA WHERE HE WAS SENDING THEM!!!! SASQUATCH LIVES!
The biggest obstacle the "Kuma doesn't know people" have to get over is how Kuma's ability works. If it went by the thoughts and subconscious desires of the people being sent why would they end up where they are?
Why didn't Kuma's magic brain scan/teleportation power just send Luffy right to "One Piece"? Why didn't Kuma's magic send Sanji groin first at the speed of light into Nami?
If his power actually worked that way how was Kuma able to separate the Straw Hats in the first place? I highly doubt Zoro wanted to be anywhere other than protecting his friends from a marauding Borsalino. The same could be said for the rest of the Straw Hats.
It takes a lot of baffling explanations to make Kuma's ability work in that manner. While conversely Kuma knowing where he sends people is quite simple.
母しゃべる「ドッグチーズ」
People are still arguing on the fact that it's OBVIOUS that Kuma knew where he sent them? lol
One DF Power knowing the whole world sending guys to random places via the one piece random island coordinate generator vs a DF power allowing the user to send other people to islands he knows or has a mental image from.
And oh and the islands where those guys land suit them magically although the DF user doesn't know where he sent them. Does it make sense? The DF alone is the brain and the user has basically no "control" over it?
The more discussions last, the more people dare post stupid theories.
Could we please get back to the chapter discussion? If you guys want to argue over Kuma's ability, take it to another thread.
Now, I'm no mod, so it's pretty much just a suggestion.
One day, everyone will understand that the Compass Birds are in fact the most important clue to the Void Century.
Why didn't Kuma's magic brain scan/teleportation power just send Luffy right to "One Piece"?
Da Fuck?
It was made quite clear in the shabody arc that Luffy's joy was the adventure itself. There's no way Luffy would have wanted to be teleported to Raftel.
Anyway, surely the only feasible explanation is that Kuma knows where he sent them. While some might be explained by these "subconscious desires" Luffy's cannot be. Also, do you really think Brook would have wanted to be sent to some random famine infested country as opposed to Laboon?
Could we please get back to the chapter discussion? If you guys want to argue over Kuma's ability, take it to another thread.
Now, I'm no mod, so it's pretty much just a suggestion.
No this is one of the most polite debates I've ever seen on here, especially given the large number of people. Not to mention, why would we stop? It's not like it's irrelevant to the chapter. If you've got something better to say than say it, if not then sit down, shut up and watch.
Da Fuck?
It was made quite clear in the shabody arc that Luffy's joy was the adventure itself. There's no way Luffy would have wanted to be teleported to Raftel.
Anyway, surely the only feasible explanation is that Kuma knows where he sent them. While some might be explained by these "subconscious desires" Luffy's cannot be. Also, do you really think Brook would have wanted to be sent to some random famine infested country as opposed to Laboon?
That and even at the speed they travelled I am sure 1 piece is further away then the up to 3 days the bubble can be sustaine. Which if memory serves me correctly is the limit to the bubbles.
Pell survived because he is a Falcon - Stop using him as a bad example.
The Peregrine Falcon reaches faster speeds than any other animal on the planet when performing the stoop,which involves soaring to a great height and then diving steeply at speeds of over 320 km/h (200 mph)
That and even at the speed they travelled I am sure 1 piece is further away then the up to 3 days the bubble can be sustaine. Which if memory serves me correctly is the limit to the bubbles.
The "3 day" thing is just another part of stupid fucking Sentomaru's ambiguous mumblings. Nothing that he said was said with much confidence, and it all seems like second-hand knowledge. But he certainly didn't say the limit was 3 days. He just said 3 days. Luffy flew for fewer, so for all we know 3 could just be the average.
And I think the general consensus is that there something powerful "protecting" One Piece/Raftel that prevents:
-the 5 DFs with the power of flight from just flying to it
-the Marines from just strolling over through the Calm Belt
-anyone from dropping off the opposite side of Reverse Mountain
and in this case,
-Kuma from poofing himself or anyone else to it
But we digress. Luffy getting to Raftel this early is neither in Kuma's interest nor Luffy's.
And oh my god did you just write "1 piece"? I'm not sure how to feel about that.
I totally disagree. That is not the problem. The problem is where the "飛ばした" is addressed by, not the 本人 part.
the problem lies there too, because if kuma had used 張本人 like rayleigh did, now the misunderstanding would be gone, whatever the context may have been… anyway i think you misunderstood me, when i was talking about the subject i was referring to kuma (and the reason it was omitted) ,not to the word 本人
The reason for ambiguity is for lack of subject. We agree on that.
These are the two possible lines Sentoumaru meant.（ルフィを・奴らを・対象を）飛ばした本人しかわからねェ
（くまが）飛ばした本人しかわからねェThe top would be "The one who sent Luffy (or whomever) is the only one to know"
The bottom would be "The one who Kuma sent is the only one to know"It drastically changes the meaning.
And the verb "sent" can be applied to either subjects just as well.And I feel it's a lot more natural in context to assume Sentoumaru meant to say "奴らを飛ばした本人しかわからねェ"
i agree with everything you said except the conclusion of course; and honestly i don't know why iyo the context would suggest the first interpretation: other than the reason i already posted, if that were to be the case than sentoumaru wouldn't give luffy any new details other than what everybody could already guess by witnessing the technique, hence there would be no reason for sentoumaru to act so solemn ("it could be either the truth or a lie…") and going on as is if he were telling a prophecy
Not only that, but even if the other line was correct, that doesn't necessary suggest phychic powers at all.
It would simply mean Kuma doesn't know where they're going, and the one sent will find out where he/she is going.
The crew obviously didn't know where they were going afterall.
indeed it doesn't necessarily suggest it, but it strongly does: if kuma himself doesn't know the destination than there must be some automated mechanism that sends each victim to a certain place. while it has not to be psychic, i wouldn't be surprised if it was something metaphysical just like what kuma did when he "repelled" the fatigue from luffy's body
You shouldn't translate that so literally.
molokidan got it right this time. 浮かび上がる doesn't literally mean "rise"…. it's a commonly used investigation term to mean the subject came up as a lead, or suspect.「始めに彼をこの「方角」へ飛ばしたと
飛ばした張本人が教えてくれたのでな
そのラインに女々島が浮かび上がった」
浮かび上がる means "rise to the surface", whether you use it figuratively or not depends on the context. try to type on google 浮かび上がる島 and you'll see plenty of examples, furthermore, all the example i found with ライン and 浮かび上がる had literal meanings. are you sure you didn't mistake it for 浮かぶ ?
The more discussions last, the more people dare post stupid theories.
You say that like it's a bad thing. :blink:
I am no longer suscribing to the theory that Kuma doesn't know where he sends people, but I did–and I am not ashamed to say I did. Why on earth should I be? One of the main reasons I wondered about it was that there were too many unexplained pieces of information that did not fit the idea that he did in fact know, starting with this week's chapter having Rayleigh himself tell us that he was told only the line of trajectory that Luffy was sent on, not the actual location---(indeed that he had to follow that line and deduce that it must be AL), and including Sentoumaru's statement to Luffy about how the power works on SA. Until these things are explained by the story, they are unexplained.
My point it that there is reason--soild reason backed up by the text--to doubt the idea that Kuma does indeed know.
This is a discussion board for the manga One Piece, is it not? WTH is wrong with discussing it, then?
Urouge brother. Here's what you've hit me with.
"What? Why would Kuma send Luffy to someplace where he could die or never escape?"
followed by
"What? Why would Kuma send Luffy to someplace he could escape?"
These mixed signals are confusing and…hurting me quite frankly. You know I wear my heart on my sleeve.
Hmm, more like "What? Why would Kuma send Luffy to a place that if he was going to be able to escape, he'd also be able to go to the war. Otherwise, he'd probably die." Granted, it relies on the use of the Tarai current to get to the war in time.
Now let me make this misunderstanding up to you by taking you out to dinner and bailing on the check. I'd even be willing to get you drunk first.
Mentioned this before but a number of factors seemed to play into where everyone was sent. Distance from ground zero, what they're capable of overcoming, opportunities to improve themselves and so forth.
I agree, which is boring. You bastard.
As has been mentioned before, for Luffy, Amazon Lily was filled with nothing but opportunity for Luffy.
I always viewed it as "a place that he's never allowed to enter for any reason" which tends to make him all giddy. But either way, it seems unreasonable to me for a character within the story to predict that going to Amazon Lily would be a good thing for Luffy. Of course, this is a main point of contention, and it's difficult to argue about since it's mostly opinion.
Was there any opportunity beyond hackition, though?
Why didn't he send him to some place in WBlue? Maybe there's no place suitable there that could help him properly train Haki (if indeed that was one goal). How did Kuma know Luffy had Haki? He probably didn't, but perhaps he thought the experience in surviving a tribe of warriors that depend on it, might open his eyes.
Well, West Blue is on the other side of the Red Line and I get the feeling that nobody crossed that border, though my only reasoning is that of storytelling. More importantly, I thought you hated leaving "haki" untranslated (holy hand grenades Batman, you even capitalized it). Am I going crazy?
Or…he had no idea where he was sending them.
At this stage the burden of truth lies with those saying Kuma doesn't know because everything else just makes sense.
Except the overall dialogue.
Look, if the Japanese community was up in arms that might be one thing.
But all that has happened here is Aohige basically said:
"Oh…I guess you could read it that way…"
HOLY TIT-FUCKS! CALL THE NEW YORK TIMES!!!!! IT COULD BE READ THAT WAY! KUMA NEVER HAD ANY IDEA WHERE HE WAS SENDING THEM!!!! SASQUATCH LIVES!
Meh, I've been fighting this side of this debate for a long time, and that line was never much a part of it for either side. The line in this chapter about having to deduce which island Luffy landed at instead of simply being told, however, threatened me and my family if I didn't come out and argue it.
I know you said that maybe Kuma didn't tell Rayleigh where he sent Luffy so that Rayleigh wouldn't go rescue him before the war, but traveling from SA to AL still takes 10 days.
If Luffy hadn't survived AL then he wasn't worth saving. and if he did survive Kuma wanted him in the war. remember, he's from the revolutionary.
The Will of D. lives!!
If Luffy hadn't survived AL then he wasn't worth saving. and if he did survive Kuma wanted him in the war. remember, he's from the revolutionary.
He is Dragon's son, and if anyone is aware of the true power of the big guns in the WG, its Dragon. The counter argument to your post is that Dragon ordered Kuma to protect Luffy and his crew by trying to keep them away from the war–which is an argument that makes sense out of Kuma sending the crew away from SA to separate locations to begin with (although Urouge is right, that theory has holes in it too at this point in time), whereas sending Luffy to AL in order to make it possible for him to get to the war doesn't seem to, as he could have easily made it to the war from other locations, and would have been stronger with his crew in tow. Care to explain that more?
Why would Dragon send his 300 million bounty son away from the war. this is a war that could have significantly changed the standing of the WG. Being from the Revolutionary, Dragon couldn't exactly send one of his own, it wasn't their fight, so he subtly placed his pirate son right in the middle of the fray. i don't think Dragon is overly obsessed with his son's safety. any parent who just leaves their kid couldn't care too much.
The Will of D. lives!!
Why would Dragon send his 300 million bounty son away from the war. this is a war that could have significantly changed the standing of the WG. Being from the Revolutionary, Dragon couldn't exactly send one of his own, it wasn't their fight, so he subtly placed his pirate son right in the middle of the fray. i don't think Dragon is overly obsessed with his son's safety. any parent who just leaves their kid couldn't care too much.
What makes you think he doesn't care about the safety of his kid? The man has been featured in the manga so far almost less than Makino, yet from these few scenes we know he saved Luffy in Louguetown–he spent a lot of time staring off towards the direction where he thought him to be--and it has been made clear that he stays in touch with Garp and they discuss Luffy.
And I think the fathers and mothers of many a child in a war zone, gone off to fight for a righteous cause, would like a word with you about whether him going off like that means absolutely that he doesn't care. Sometimes making the world safer for your kid, and other kids as well, becomes the important thing for some parents. He left him in the care of Garp, who was trustworthy enough to be entrusted with two kids that we know of. Garp, for all that you can say about him, and admittedly that is a lot, truly cares about the boys, and even if his methods were off, his motives were good, lol. Not only that, but he was a hero and highly placed in the marines, which means essentially he could provide real protection for them. As a parent myself (sorry to pull that trump card--if you feel its unfair, can withdraw this argument), I know from experience picking the person to whom you would entrust your progeny is no easy task--and these things would weigh in his favor in a world like OP.
Plus Dragon knows the strength of people like the admirals. He knows Luffy isn't strong enough to face them right now. Again, it makes no sense to me that he'd send him off to possibly get killed.
Dragon is happy with Luffy making his own decisions without regret. He says things like "question the world". Dragon wouldn't want to stop Luffy doing whatever he wants, as he strongly believes in freedom.
@$abZ:
Dragon is happy with Luffy making his own decisions without regret. He says things like "question the world". Dragon wouldn't want to stop Luffy doing whatever he wants, as he strongly believes in freedom.
Well that's possible, but i doubt he'd think Luffy's desire would be to die any more than Luffy thought that was Ace's. LOL
It's pretty simple really why Dragon or Kuma wouldn't want Luffy at the war. If his crew got their ass kicked by just 1 Admiral. Why the fuck would you want them to face a potential matchup where 3 Admirals are going to be at a few days later. Kuma sent them to different islands to potentially train, recuperate, and not attend the war. Seperating them is also a good tactic since it stalls even more time as they would try to reunite first before going to their next destination as a crew. It was just by luck or Luffy being Luffy that he charmed Hancock so fast that he was able to go to ID and make it in time for the war.
The only way Dragon would be smart to send Luffy to the war after he just got assraped would be if Kuma sent Luffy to a hyperbolic time chamber and with his few days of training ended up being WB level. Which he obviously (thank god) didn't do.
浮かび上がる means "rise to the surface", whether you use it figuratively or not depends on the context. try to type on google 浮かび上がる島 and you'll see plenty of examples, furthermore, all the example i found with ライン and 浮かび上がる had literal meanings. are you sure you didn't mistake it for 浮かぶ ?
Uh, you utterly and completely missed my point.
No kidding 浮かび上がる means "rise to the surface". That's the LITERAL meaning.
What I'm saying is, it ALSO is used non-literally, for incidents/lead/suspects that "comes up" in an investigation, or someone simply figuring it out from deduction.
Are you seriously telling me to GOOGLE this? I know how common everyday speech is used.
Why don't you Google it. Google 浮かび上がる and…. for example, "犯人像". It's even used very commonly on Japanese NEWSPAPERS for Christ's sake.
Let me give you examples of how it's used.
"調査が進むにつれ犯人像が浮かび上がってくる" "As the investigation continues, the image of the suspect slowly becomes clear"
"調査を進めていくと「ミレニアム」という謎めいた名称が何度も浮かび上がってくる" "As the investigation is continued, a mysterious name of 'millennium' is found repeatedly"
"故郷のことを考えると一つの顔が浮かび上がってくる" "As I think about my homeland, one face comes to my mind"
"21世紀に入ってくると生物研究においてあるひとつの可能性が浮かび上がってくる" "As we enter the 21st century, one possibility rises to attention in the field of biological research"
I think the problem is you stick to "text books approach" of the Japanese language, which I assume is foreign to you.
Common everyday speech is a little different, and the knowledge of it can only be obtained by interacting in everyday speech with others. Not in classrooms.
16 chars of pwnt.
Turns out the "cheap trick" is your useless textbook japanese!
_-GaXa8tSBE&showinfo=0
1\. Ace (√), 2\. WB (√), 3\. BB (X), 4\. Perona (√) 5\. Boa (√) 6\. Jimbei (???), 7\. Sabo lives (√), 8\. Timeskip (√)
@JERK:
Turns out the "cheap trick" is your useless textbook japanese!
_-GaXa8tSBE&showinfo=0
cheaptrick started a discussion which is pointless and without logic… but whatever he still will think he is right and after all Kuma had no plan...
i agree with everything you said except the conclusion of course; and honestly i don't know why iyo the context would suggest the first interpretation: other than the reason i already posted, if that were to be the case than sentoumaru wouldn't give luffy any new details other than what everybody could already guess by witnessing the technique, hence there would be no reason for sentoumaru to act so solemn ("it could be either the truth or a lie…") and going on as is if he were telling a prophecy
As for disagreeing on which context Kuma said, well, I can't quite explain that part. It just seems more natural on context to assume the former.
I mean, the latter possibility didn't even enter my mind until it was brought up. It's exactly like Greg said. "Oh… I guess it CAN be taken that way".
Also let me add that this isn't even an issue being brought up in the Japanese community. 2ch or else.
Other native speakers in Japanese threads read it in the same manner as me, so there's not even a debate.
Only question being brought up is "how come Kuma only told Rayleigh which direction he pawed Luffy to, and not the location?" and not "Kuma doesn't know where he's pawing people to!"
And Then My Theory Come to Save the World :
Kuma Sent luffy flying into a Direction, That direction take the Shape of a straight line, And in 3 days Luffy would land on the first Island that lies on that line (Kuma told Rayleigh the direction, so he deduced that Amazon lily is the first ISland on that Direction) , which mean that the speed of flying depend on how far the 1st island is cause Luffy will only Fly for 3 days, this explain how some SHs landed on another seas in 3 days too.
Also let me add that this isn't even an issue being brought up in the Japanese community. 2ch or else.
Other native speakers in Japanese threads read it in the same manner as me, so there's not even a debate.
Only question being brought up is "how come Kuma only told Rayleigh which direction he pawed Luffy to, and not the location?" and not "Kuma doesn't know where he's pawing people to!"
Out of curiosity, since I have no idea how powerful of an argument this is. How likely did the Japanese community view the chance that Ace and Luffy had different fathers after his chat with Garp?
Out of curiosity, since I have no idea how powerful of an argument this is. How likely did the Japanese community view the chance that Ace and Luffy had different fathers after his chat with Garp?
Haha, touche. Good point, but that's a plot ambiguity and not a grammatical one.
Similar, but not the same.
That was obviously on purpose on Oda's part (in retrospect), but this one is rather unlikely to be on purpose.
Then he send them off. If his power is to repel and the indivdual has that place in mind (assuming HIS fruit even reads their mind!) how does it make sense that it would take them where they want to go instead of expelling that idea and sending them to the excat opposite?
Food for thought.
Hrm. I like this train of thought.
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it, and all that.
Perona went to her dark scary castle… but had no servants, for instance. And Moria refused to give him an answer to that question, knowing how the power worked. Sanji went to a place of pink and maiden hearts, but...
Though that may just be Kuma's sense of humor.
And also, I hate Naruto for no real reason what so ever, i just hate it because. Just throwing that out there.
Haha, touche. Good point, but that's a plot ambiguity and not a grammatical one.
Similar, but not the same.That was obviously on purpose on Oda's part (in retrospect), but this one is rather unlikely to be on purpose.
Well, that's fine. Regardless of whether it's right, wrong, or ambiguous, I'm hesitant to trust Sentoumaru's opinions of Kuma's powers. I accept that he should be in the know, since he works with Vegapunk. However, the mix up in the number of days a person should be sent flying is fairly inexcusable if we wish to trust him as an information source, since I don't think Oda would screw that up accidentally. Is there any grammatical obscurity that could have made him correct about the number of days a person (Luffy in this case) is sent flying? If not, I'm just going to resume not taking what he said seriously.
Well, that's fine. Regardless of whether it's right, wrong, or ambiguous, I'm hesitant to trust Sentoumaru's opinions of Kuma's powers. I accept that he should be in the know, since he works with Vegapunk. However, the mix up in the number of days a person should be sent flying is fairly inexcusable if we wish to trust him as an information source, since I don't think Oda would screw that up accidentally. Is there any grammatical obscurity that could have made him correct about the number of days a person (Luffy in this case) is sent flying? If not, I'm just going to resume not taking what he said seriously.
Well actually, yes.
Sentoumaru said 三日三晩, which literally means 3 days and 3 nights.
However, this is also a common generic expression to simply mean "days and nights, continuously". and does NOT infact, have to literally mean 3 days and 3 nights.
It's just like Jinbei's comment that the WB commanders are 百人力, which literally means "strength of one hundred men", but doesn't literally mean 100 men strong. It's a generic phrase to say someone is very strong.
There are many, many instances of Japanese like this.
For example, 八百万の神 is a phrase meaning 8 million gods of Japan, but the number doesn't actually mean 8 million literally, just "hell of a lot".
Well actually, yes.
Sentoumaru said 三日三晩, which literally means 3 days and 3 nights.
However, this is also a common generic expression to simply mean "days and nights, continuously". and does NOT infact, have to literally mean 3 days and 3 nights.It's just like Jinbei's comment that the WB commanders are 百人力, which literally means "strength of one hundred men", but doesn't literally mean 100 men strong. It's a generic phrase to say someone is very strong.
There are many, many instances of Japanese like this.
For example, 八百万の神 is a phrase meaning 8 million gods of Japan, but the number doesn't actually mean 8 million literally, just "hell of a lot".
Ah, I see. I wasn't aware of that expression, thanks. I suppose I will have to continue caring.
I thought you hated leaving "haki" untranslated
I do. As I do shichibukai, tenryuubito, yonkou etc.
So when doing something 'official' or an actual translation, I would translate them.
But when shooting shit with OP fans I know well, it's faster to type haki than ambition and everyone still knows what I'm talking about.
I see it's another 24 hours later and we're still being overwhelmed with 張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人[perpetrator]
I always enjoy seeing Japanese people get lectured on their language by foreign fans.
J: Here's what it says and here's how we read it.
Human pustule: YES BUT YOU CAN ALSO INTERPRET THAT TO MEAN THIS!
J: Ah well yes, based on some basic grammar rules that we don't usually pay much heed, you're correct. But…it doesn't make sense and nobody reads it that way.
Human pustule: AaaaHA! I KNEW IT! SEE! EVEN CONFIRMED BY JAPANESE PEOPLE THAT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS! SEE? THIS THEORY IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!
J: Well no, actually I said it could be read that way but no one actually did and it isn't being debated by the likes of people that notice things like three sake cups, that 'haki' was originally specially marked by Oda, Luffy's wings and wink of the cover of 27, insert insane detail XXXXXX.
Human pustule: AWESOME! I AM THE FIRST PERSON TO COME UP WITH THIS THEORY! I UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT THE JAPANESE LANGUAGE AND ITS NUANCES THAN PEOPLE THAT HAVE LIVED THEIR ENTIRE LIVES SPEAKING IT!
J:…..I'm gonna....go over here now if you don't mind. Bye.
Uh, you utterly and completely missed my point.
No kidding 浮かび上がる means "rise to the surface". That's the LITERAL meaning.
What I'm saying is, it ALSO is used non-literally, for incidents/lead/suspects that "comes up" in an investigation, or someone simply figuring it out from deduction.Are you seriously telling me to GOOGLE this? I know how common everyday speech is used.
Why don't you Google it. Google 浮かび上がる and…. for example, "犯人像". It's even used very commonly on Japanese NEWSPAPERS for Christ's sake.Let me give you examples of how it's used.
"調査が進むにつれ犯人像が浮かび上がってくる" "As the investigation continues, the image of the suspect slowly becomes clear"
"調査を進めていくと「ミレニアム」という謎めいた名称が何度も浮かび上がってくる" "As the investigation is continued, a mysterious name of 'millennium' is found repeatedly"
"故郷のことを考えると一つの顔が浮かび上がってくる" "As I think about my homeland, one face comes to my mind"
"21世紀に入ってくると生物研究においてあるひとつの可能性が浮かび上がってくる" "As we enter the 21st century, one possibility rises to attention in the field of biological research"I think the problem is you stick to "text books approach" of the Japanese language, which I assume is foreign to you.
Common everyday speech is a little different, and the knowledge of it can only be obtained by interacting in everyday speech with others. Not in classrooms.
japanese is not my native language, but we are only talking about a shounen manga here, not some heavy literature text so I don't think it does really matter. anyway I already replied to that in my previous post:
@cheaptrick:
浮かび上がる means "rise to the surface", whether you use it figuratively or not depends on the context.
Why don't you Google it. Google 浮かび上がる and…. for example, "犯人像". It's even used very commonly on Japanese NEWSPAPERS for Christ's sake.
fistly, this is no seinen manga.
secondly, like I told you before, it depends on the context. why should i google it with that word? i told you to google it with 島 and ライン because those are the words of the context we are talking about.
the only reason i could see to read 浮かび上がる figuratively like you did, is by reading ライン figuratively too, although personally I don't think that's the case now for a very simple reason:
edit:
@Aohige_AP:
Well actually, yes.
Sentoumaru said 三日三晩, which literally means 3 days and 3 nights.
However, this is also a common generic expression to simply mean "days and nights, continuously". and does NOT infact, have to literally mean 3 days and 3 nights.
I was also bothered by this, thanks for clearing my doubt
japanese is not my native language, but we are only talking about a shounen manga here, not some heavy literature text so I don't think it does really matter. anyway I already replied to that in my previous post:
japanese is not my native language, but we are only talking about a shounen manga here, not some heavy literature text so I don't think it does really matter.
fistly, this is no seinen manga.
secondly, like I told you before, it depends on the context. why should i google it with that word? i told you to google it with 島 and ライン because those are the words of the context we are talking about.
the only reason i could see to read 浮かび上がる figuratively like you did, is by reading ライン figuratively too, although personally I don't think that's the case now for a very simple reason:
- in that panel rayleigh actually didn't "came up" with the idea luffy may have ended up at amazon lily: rayleigh and shakky's deduction came up after collecting all the marine ford data too (actually it was shakky who came up with the idea luffy was at AL ), so actually rayleigh in that panel (and in the whole page) expose one by one all the details that lead to that deduction, starting with the fact that AL was on the direction kuma told him
edit:
I was also bothered by this, thanks for clearing my doubt
Like I said cheaptrick still thinks he is right^^
japanese is not my native language, but we are only talking about a shounen manga here, not some heavy literature text so I don't think it does really matter. anyway I already replied to that in my previous post:
japanese is not my native language, but we are only talking about a shounen manga here, not some heavy literature text so I don't think it does really matter.
fistly, this is no seinen manga.
secondly, like I told you before, it depends on the context. why should i google it with that word? i told you to google it with 島 and ライン because those are the words of the context we are talking about.
the only reason i could see to read 浮かび上がる figuratively like you did, is by reading ライン figuratively too, although personally I don't think that's the case now for a very simple reason:
- in that panel rayleigh actually didn't "came up" with the idea luffy may have ended up at amazon lily: rayleigh and shakky's deduction came up after collecting all the marine ford data too (actually it was shakky who came up with the idea luffy was at AL ), so actually rayleigh in that panel (and in the whole page) expose one by one all the details that lead to that deduction, starting with the fact that AL was on the direction kuma told him
I think they're trying to say it's a shonen manga that isn't a seinen manga.
張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人浮かび上がる 浮かび上がる 浮かび上がる 浮かび上がる 浮かび上がる 浮かび上がる 浮かび上がる ライン ライン ライン ライン ライン ライン ライン ライン ライン ライン ライン ライン島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島島張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人張本人
cheaptrick can speak Japanese everybody, in the event that you weren't aware of this.
why should i google it with that word? i told you to google it with 島 and ライン because those are the words of the context we are talking about.
This made milk shoot out my nose.
And I'm drinking Pepsi.
japanese is not my native language, but we are only talking about a shounen manga here, not some heavy literature text so I don't think it does really matter.
Did you actually say this point TWICE? You're aware of it and still continuing the argument?
Assume the native speakers know what they're talking about and stop trying to find a nuance that isn't there.
I can count to a hundred in japanese and am developing a grasp of the written language, I started studying two weeks ago. (true story)
….So now I think I'm qualified to start doubting people that know the culture, common sayings, and you know, speak the language fluently day in and day out?
Someone studying it and learning technical aspects isn't the same as someone who is fluent and living it.
Someone learning English might for instance, have trouble figuring out what "gay" means.
What in the hell are you talking about now?
What does usage of "common Japanese expression" have ANYTHING TO DO with whether One Piece is shounen or seinen?
Seriously, WTF? Are you saying shounen manga are written for 5 year olds, and excludes usages of any COMMON EVERYDAY EXPRESSION that may confuse a toddler?
And stop telling me to go Google. OF FRIGGING COURSE if you google "line", "island" and "float to the surface" it's gonna come up as that. When in the hell do you see everyday someone saying "OH DUDE I FIGURED OUT WHAT ISLAND THIS PERSON IS ON BY LOOKING AT THE SEA MAP" as opposed to five million instances of text saying an island came up due to whatever geological tectonic plate shift. This is the single stupidest argument I've ever seen here, Mr "I USE GOOGLE TO TRANSLATE". Did you even understand the context of what those google search results are in? Did you even bother to READ them????
Let me put it in plain language for you.
Rayleigh "figured out" which island Luffy was on AL by studying the "line". Period.
NO, Amazon Lily did not suddenly FLOAT TO THE SURFACE OF THE SEA when Rayleigh looked at the map. That's retarded.
I'm done. This is getting too ridiculous, I'm simply gonna put you on ignore, and save myself the pain of having to read it, and just hope no one takes you seriously.
> Except Wednesday.
Wednesday is the worst fucking day of the week.
Waterworld features Dennis Hopper with a golf club.
Sui means water.
Suiyoubi*.
*this is the actual origin of the word.
And even more cheaptrick.
Western comics are using common sayings as well which you can't translate 1 to 1 and keep the same meaning^^
And this is even more troublesome with japanese!
But really case is closed. Aohige utterly owned you and your prediction is wrong and really not logical^^
But if you still want to debate don't wonder if no one will take you seriously anymore
But hey I can say Sayonara^^ I'm better in japanese than Aohige^^
Wednesday is the worst fucking day of the week.
Waterworld features Dennis Hopper with a golf club.
Sui means water.
Suiyoubi*.
*this is the actual origin of the word.
That is a helpful and yet amusing lesson.
I can only imagine what your English teaching classes must be like.
Wednesday screws me in the damn spelling in English too. Stupid silent d. "Marry Nintendo day" is the only reason I ever get it right.
Oh. And uhm. I'm pretty sure Kuma knew what he was doing.
my God this is friggin' hilarious :D what i miss cuz i was watching the World Cup
Wednesday screws me in the damn spelling in English too. Stupid silent d. "Marry Nintendo day" is the only reason I ever get it right.
how i remember Wednesday is that is named for Germanic God Woden (Odin in Norse myth) lol
I can only imagine what your English teaching classes must be like.
Picture me in chinos and a button-down shirt following students' orders like a robot to pick up a pikopiko hammer and upon successfully retrieving said weapon of mass destruction, following further instructions to their choice of a student of interest and unleashing the wrath of the Old Gods on their head with a swing of the mighty hammer.
Cheaptrick haven't replied?
Well i think we will have a monster posts^^
Verilance i like your sig
Picture me in chinos and a button-down shirt following students' orders like a robot to pick up a pikopiko hammer and upon successfully retrieving said weapon of mass destruction, following further instructions to their choice of a student of interest and unleashing the wrath of the Old Gods on their head with a swing of the mighty hammer.
Dude. You totally make me gay.
And by that, I of course mean
adjective-
1.
having or showing a merry, lively mood: gay spirits; gay music.
and not
noun-
7.
a homosexual person, esp. a male.
But the spelling is the same, so I can see where there might be some confusion to a non native speaker.
But the spelling is the same, so I can see where there might be some confusion to a non native speaker.
Common mistake. But the difference is, it's one I choose to make.
KiShiDo, I've nabbed an exclusive sneak peak at cheaptrick's post:
2TK-j7yHOjc
BTW, no bullshit.
Without understanding Japanese, is the Google thing as funny to anyone else?
It's like…
"No, don't seach for 'pedophile', that will just bring up unrelated results. You have to search it with 'trustworthy' and 'child-sitter'. Do that and tell me how many reliable pedophile babysitters there are smart guy."
