Sabo's Fate? Vol. Alive Revolutionary Or ???

Ivotas

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/587/19/
I also don't know why Sabo used a flag with a cross out his name.
And Ace, is your name Asce?

I figure there's a difference between the (background) skull and crossbones on a pirate flag and crossing out a letter in a text. I repeat, I'm not denying the possibility. But I'd really find it a macabre move by Oda if that's what he was aiming at.

Edit: Thinking about it a bit more I came to the conclusion that even if I find it a bit macabre personally I guess you guys are right, so I stand corrected, that with my claim that there were zero signs back then.^^

Mugiwara_no_Ice

@Ivotas:

A few month's in advance is not the same as the usual Oda hinting at things years in advance. That's the signature style I'm talking about. Of course I realize that you can only hint things in such a long time frame if there's actually an opportunity that makes plausible sense, which Luffy's and Ace's meeting at Arabasta actually was.

@Greg:

Regarding 'freedom'.

It needed an explanation.

In fact I made a whole post about how important that line was last year or so since it was a sign of 'motivation' from someone who to that very moment seemed to be motivated by 'fighting strong guys, having fun and seeing cool shit'. It was a big giveaway.

Also, a year ago when Ace was talking to a depressed Luffy (548?549?) I said back then that scene would be important. So it's not something that just popped up.

The only thing missing was a name. The hints that 'something' was there were all there.

Is your problem purely with the execution? If so I can somewhat understand but the only thing missing was a name and a face. We knew something was up, just not that it was a person.

If your problem isn't that, is it Sabo's existence? Because come on now. This is the man who thought up a a skeleton musician related to a big-ass whale almost 10 years before he actually drew him. Do you think he just Sabo out of nowhere? PLEASE tell me it isn't this because I can at least somewhat sympathize if its purely execution.

And for the record, I wouldn't call it an ass-pull if it was Bleach. No bullshit. Naruto maybe. But I have not and never will have the right to criticize Naruto in a formal discussion since I don't read it and would probably have missed something.

Sure, this isn't a, "WOOOOOAH! SO THAT'S WHAT ODA MEANT WHEN HE SAID XXXXXXX.", or, "SO THIS IS WHO HE MEANT A DECADE AGO!", but I was able to see that there were certain elements that were crucial to setting up this story/character. Even though they never gave a name, the events all make sense.

We could fairly assume Oda knew where he was going, made subtle hints for Luffy's development but didn't figure out yet how to implement that, through a new charachter? a situation? something else?

So imo I think Oda made up Sabo fairly recently - Let's say the same happened with Shiki, he could've had introduced him during the shanks WB encouter, but didn't use the window of opportunity even though he wanted to open a window that particular moment. Later he used a straight forward hint through Sengoku, but that could hardly be seen as foreshadowing.

Sea

I can see how Sabo and Luffy would be in conflict.
Pirates are always outlaws.
The revolution, while it has not been successful, is outlaw. When it is successful, it is law.
The freedom a pirate seeks and the freedom a revolutionizer seeks, are different.
Not to mention, a pirate set sail to seek freedom for himself, while a revolutionizer's goal is freedom for people.
The pirate escapes what opposes freedom. The revolutionizer fights it.
That said, I don't believe in absolute freedom. http://www.ijourney.org/index.php?tid=360

the (background) skull

crossing out a letter in a text

About Ace's tattoo:
Is the S background? Or is it the cross?
;)

Barkworm

@Ivotas:

What do you mean it happens all the time? One Piece is full of vague hints of that sort.

I think we both mean pretty much the same thing, we're just talking past each other.

JERK DISEASE

Who the hell is Barkworm??

Because he's a good poster I haven't noticed till now.

Also Sea is shaping up to be a quality verion of Lobster Pot Sticker.

Mingo22

ideally u want control of all factions and he has sabo in revolutionaries coby marines and a shichibukai mole with boa. and any number of nation affilates and reknowned pirates backing him. 1 yokou from shanks and a potential one in big mama.

as mihawk says he makes allies of everyone. which is his strength.

regarding how long it lasts, thatd depebd on his influence of others and their influence on the generation after. but in any large culture there will be a cycle of peace and war and all the inbetweens. so who knows. its up to oda.

Sea

@JERK:

Also Sea is shaping up to be a quality verion of Lobster Pot Sticker.

What do you mean by that?
A quality version?
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[/hide]

Josl

@Greg:

But it wasn't months, it was at least two years if you don't count the Ace tattoo. No, he did not give a name or shadowy figure, but he had Luffy mention a source of 'motivation' which was basically unheard of..

Could you please tell me the chapter where this was mentioned?

Sea

I wonder if people understand I was sarcastic when I said Luffy joins the revolutionary, which won't happen.
Being a PK is not a way to bring freedom to people in general, by the definition of PK, in any age.
Being a D is the other thing. The WG will end, with the help of Luffy, and some D's. They maybe related to the ancient kingdom.
I wonder if Luffy had been born in a world of freedom by Dragon's standard, would he have sought for freedom?
When was being a pirate justifiable? In an age like this. Doing whatever you want, that is the freedom a pirate seeks. That kind of freedom won't be appreciated by a revolutionizer.
However, freedom of a revolutionizer, what i would call democracy and equality, is not what a PK would be able to bring to people, by any mean.

Bobjr

Why would Dragon have to go in the fire? Why couldn't he have gone in after the fire had went out? Dadan was able to survive that long with her wounds, So Bluejam could have too. Dragon could have went to see if there were any survivors left and fount him. We already saw that Dragon was willing to save the people from there. Bluejam wanting to be a noble wasn't publicly known, So it wouldn't have had no baring on him being saved. If Dragon had hung around and saved Sabo, Wouldn't Dogura have seen him since he was on the scene?

Olvia and Clover died without smiling and like Sabo they died before they could complete their dream, Unlike the other named characters who die after doing something worthwhile. There was no reason for Sabo to smile in that situation.

There is no winning with this person.

Mugiwara_no_Ice

What's this 'Sabo will link Luffy to the revolutionaries'-posts I read. His fricking FATHER is the boss of that organization. isn't that enough.

Bobjr

@Mugiwara_no_Ice:

What's this 'Sabo will link Luffy to the revolutionaries'-posts I read. His fricking FATHER is the boss of that organization. isn't that enough.

Mostly because he's never met his father, and until recently didn't even know about him. It just gives him a more personal connection.

Robby

I've worked at the same office for 10 years. I have an older step sister, who is alive and well and has kids, and I never, not once, mentioned her until like 2 months ago when it specifically came up. A couple of my co-workers were quite surprised.

I don't ever see her or think about her, and she's not at all a part of my life.

people don't go into long talks about their pasts unless prompted or they have a specific story to tell. And Sabo had been dead to Luffy for 10 years. What's to talk about?

@Josl:

Could you please tell me the chapter where this was mentioned?

Unless it was an earlier moment Greg is thinking of, the first time I recall it coming up is when they were talking to Rayleigh.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/507/09/

JERK DISEASE

Why would Dragon have to go in the fire? Why couldn't he have gone in after the fire had went out? Dadan was able to survive that long with her wounds, So Bluejam could have too.

Why would Dragon save him.

Dragon could have went to see if there were any survivors left and fount him.

Why would Dragon save him.

We already saw that Dragon was willing to save the people from there. Bluejam wanting to be a noble wasn't publicly known, So it wouldn't have had no baring on him being saved.

Bluejam is a pirate captain, are you telling me Dragon wouldn't be able to identify the difference between a pirate captain and a destitute beggar such as lives in Grey Terminal.
Also why would Dragon go back for survivors ALONE. He went to save survivors with his whole ship and crew, which made sense for refugee saving.
If he intended to save more refugees why the fuck would he go alone.
And why the fuck would he wait two days.

He has reason to have gone seeking Sabo as he ran into him personally. And going for one person makes sense for one person. Going for an indetermined amount of survivors is unquestionably WRONG as a theory. It makes zero sense seeing as how Dragon went back. Alone.

If Dragon had hung around and saved Sabo, Wouldn't Dogura have seen him since he was on the scene?

Probably because Sabo washed up unconscious on the shore somewhere hours later? Fucking duh?
What does this guy think? That Dogura watched the entire coastline for 24 hours before coming back?

Olvia and Clover died without smiling

No they didn't you dumb bastard.

Unlike the other named characters who die after doing something worthwhile. There was no reason for Sabo to smile in that situation.

There's also no reason for him to die period.

Seriously link me to this discussion.

Aohige_AP

In about 10 hours or so, this entire thread is going to be replicated in classrooms of 6th graders all over Japan.

kid with glasses: Guys did you read today's One Piece? Sabo's alive!
pignosed kid: Wut? I didn't see that anywhere, what are you talking about
snooty faced kid: Learn to read moron, it's clear as the day
pignosed kid: Where? There's nothing shown that sez that
kid with glasses: long rant on why it's literally obvious
challenged freckled kid: HEY GAIS I NO! Dragon saved Bluejam!!
entire class: …......Huh?

AtomicFruit

fat kid: guys I have a essay of 200 pages why Perona will be the next crewmate!!11!!
entire class: sigh…........
Tare_chan: Where is Robin?:wub:

Zik

I liked it that Oda didn't hint directly at Sabo or mentioned his name until recently cuz after all that dadan speculaton I really don't care for the character.

LOL @ 2 more ppl voting dead since I last was in here.

LOL @ that post from Om arguing Bluejam was saved. Thinking Bluejam is more likely than Sabo says a lot about that poster.

LOL @ the Devilman pic.

Anyway, it'd be cool if Oda wrapped the concept of "Unchained" Biscuit Olivia around Sabo's dream in the present. As a character it would fall in line with everything he wondered and wanted to be in the flashback. It's a good enough dream to aspire to.

Ivotas

@robbybedfart:

I've worked at the same office for 10 years. I have an older step sister, who is alive and well and has kids, and I never, not once, mentioned her until like 2 months ago when it specifically came up. A couple of my co-workers were quite surprised.

That's a very bad example and you know it. Because the argument was that it didn't have Oda's signature way of foreshadowing so with all due respect your personal habbits aren't really a valid indicator here.

people don't go into long talks about their pasts unless prompted or they have a specific story to tell. And Sabo had been dead to Luffy for 10 years. What's to talk about?

I think I've posted a perfect example of a brief dialog that wouldn't look out of place at all but I can repeat it again:

Luffy: "See, I'm a wanted pirate too. I'll catch up to you in no time!"
Ace (happy): "I wonder what Sabo would be thinking if he could see us two now"

That Sabo's been dead for 10 years does at no point make this conversation unlikely. Heck, Luffy just was speaking towards the heavens to Sabo right before he started his adventure which shows how important Sabo is in terms of motivation (heck, his fate was even was made them have the promise about a life with more freedom than everyone else). Which means that this milestone moment where two of the brothers met after three years isn't your everyday scenario but rather a special case. One in which reflecting about your motivations and achievements definitely seems to be fitting.

As I already said, I admit that Oda most likely has hinted at Sabo back then with the tattoo. But it's another thing to say that including him in a short dialog as suggested above would not work. Especially with an writer like Oda.

JERK DISEASE

@Ivotas:

That's a very bad example and you know it. Because the argument was that it didn't have Oda's signature way of foreshadowing so with all due respect your personal habbits aren't really a valid indicator here.

You mean Oda's signature way of having Luffy talk about exactly nothing of his past and relations until it's been popped up?

Luffy: "See, I'm a wanted pirate too. I'll catch up to you in no time!"
Ace (happy): "I wonder what Sabo would be thinking if he could see us two now"

What's the point of this? That because Oda arbitrarily decided not to force his name into a conversation he didn't plan Sabo out?

That Sabo's been dead for 10 years does at no point make this conversation unlikely.

It also doesn't make it in any way shape or form inevitable.
Which is Robby's point.

Heck, Luffy just was speaking towards the heavens to Sabo right before he started his adventure so this milestone moment where two of the brothers met after three years isn't your everyday scenario where you do not reflect about your motivations and achievements.

lol at your idea of a beleivable conversation being something like..

"AND GOD BLKESS SABO, MY POP GOLD ROGER, YOUR DAD DRAGON, DADAN, GRANDPA GARP, AND EVERY OTHER SPOILER CHARACTER IMAGINABLE, PEACE GOD, WORD IS BOND."

Your idea of a smooth conversation with spoilers is a rap album's liner notes.

As I already said, I admit that Oda most likely has hinted at Sabo back then with the tattoo. But it's another thing to say that including him in a short dialog would not work especially with an writer like Oda.

It didn't need to happened. Your annoyance at the lack of it is dumb.

Ivotas

Oh god, it's chasing me again.^^

JERK DISEASE

he hold me accountable to dumb beleifs…baka <_<;

Mugiwara_no_Ice

W8CfK0wcqYw

Who's who ?

tigerlilly

@Aohige_AP:

challenged freckled kid: HEY GAIS I NO! Dragon saved Bluejam!!

I see what you did there
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Am I the only one who thought it was obvious they were talking about treating Dragon's terrible boil? Or maybe it was a pimple?[/hide]

brennen.exe

@Greg:

Alright, that I can understand. For me, someone who actually made a big deal about two of those scenes and was eagerly awaiting an explanation, it had a huge impact. But I can understand your view quite clearly now.

This is all I have been saying this whole time; I thought that was pretty clear. Anyway, I made an equally big deal about those scenes, and while I have enjoyed Sabo's character and will likely enjoy whatever else comes from him, the lack of setup for his character will continue to be a mild disappointment for me, like Blackbeard's use of his title and various other things. No big deal. Also, the reason this is even worth mention is because of who Sabo is, and what type of relationship he has to the main character, not simply because he is a character that will have a continuing part in the story. Oda basically created, or introduced us to, a "new" brother at the exact moment he was killing off the only brother we knew existed. Had Sabo been handled more like Dadan, Garp, Whitebeard, Blackbeard, Dragon, Mihawk, Jinbei, Hancock, Lola's mom, Kaidou, etc, etc, etc it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

x20a

I voted for 'Alive' because Oda always loves to do random plot twists. If he's dead, then he's just dead, and that's boring. If he's alive, however, then he can always come back at a later time to help Luffy/prevent Luffy from becoming an emo because he couldn't save anyone.

Deicide

@brennen.exe:

This is all I have been saying this whole time; I thought that was pretty clear. Anyway, I made an equally big deal about those scenes, and while I have enjoyed Sabo's character and will likely enjoy whatever else comes from him, the lack of setup for his character will continue to be a mild disappointment for me, like Blackbeard's use of his title and various other things. No big deal. Also, the reason this is even worth mention is because of who Sabo is, and what type of relationship he has to the main character, not simply because he is a character that will have a continuing part in the story. Oda basically created, or introduced us to, a "new" brother at the exact moment he was killing off the only brother we knew existed. Had Sabo been handled more like Dadan, Garp, Whitebeard, Blackbeard, Dragon, Mihawk, Jinbei, Hancock, Lola's mom, Kaidou, etc, etc, etc it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

That's how I feel as well.

@x20a:

I voted for 'Alive' because Oda always loves to do random plot twists. If he's dead, then he's just dead, and that's boring. If he's alive, however, then he can always come back at a later time to help Luffy/prevent Luffy from becoming an emo because he couldn't save anyone.

This is something I don't get. Ok, let's admit: Sabo's alive. I can live with that. But do people think he would appear now in the story? While Luffy is in the middle of Amazon Lily, in the Calm Belt?

I think that, if Sabo's alive, he won't appear in the story for quite some time. I doubt he will magically be summoned to Amazon Lily. Luffy will probably get over his current depression with help from his crew, from his current allies (Jimbei, Hancock and/or Law) or on his own. I really really really doubt Sabo will appear in the main story so soon.

We wouldl probably see him in a future arc about the revolutionaries or the World Government, or he would meet Luffy in the beginning or end of an unrelated arc (like Garp or Ace did), or he would have his own arc (either as a brother in distress or as a villain), not now.

JERK DISEASE

The problem isn't Sabo. It's Ace's.
As he was a dull character Oda never developed until the end.
I'm already more invested in him then I ever was with Ace.

Which is twenty billion times more important then how premeditated and hinted at the character is.

Zik

@brennen.exe:

Oda basically created, or introduced us to, a "new" brother at the exact moment he was killing off the only brother we knew existed. Had Sabo been handled more like Dadan, Garp, Whitebeard, Blackbeard, Dragon, Mihawk, Jinbei, Hancock, Lola's mom, Kaidou, etc, etc, etc it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

I don't see how it's a big deal at all. I think you guys are just being anal.

JERK DISEASE

Ace himself came out of the blue really, unless you count the SOMEONE WAS AT DRUM FOR YOU thing that happened like four chapters before he showed up.

DemonX

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

I don't see how it's a big deal at all. I think you guys are just being anal.

:D

Don´t you guys envy the people who just take the story for what it is, without analyzing it at every (okay, I exaggerate) step?

JERK DISEASE

I don't have to do something as lame as that because OP is well made.

Retsudo

It depends on where Oda plans to take Sabo's character.

Sure, if he turns out to just be Luffy's cooler, handsomer, not threatening older brother who travels around in a skateboat, then yeah, he'll be redundant.

However, if Sabo is say, Dragon's young ward who has a decent amount of conflict with Luffy who does not ride around in a skateboat, then no he wouldn't be redundant in the same way as above.

Deicide

@Retsudo:

(…) if Sabo is say, Dragon's young ward (...)

And Ace was Whitebeard's young ward.

Mugiwara_no_Ice

@Retsudo:

It depends on where Oda plans to take Sabo's character.

Sure, if he turns out to just be Luffy's cooler, handsomer, not threatening older brother who travels around in a skateboat, then yeah, he'll be redundant.

However, if Sabo is say, Dragon's young ward who has a decent amount of conflict with Luffy who does not ride around in a skateboat, then no he wouldn't be redundant in the same way as above.

What's your issue with skateboats?

brennen.exe

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

I don't see how it's a big deal at all. I think you guys are just being anal.

I uhh, I don't see how it's a big deal either? "No big deal" was in the post you quoted, after all. I was just pointing out a gripe I had with how Oda handled him, then everyone came to Oda's rescue. One Piece is well made, which is why I don't really care when Oda does something I think could have been handled better, but given it is the topic of discussion I see no harm in discussing it. Oh, and for the selective readers, "I have enjoyed Sabo's character and will likely enjoy whatever else comes from him."

JERK DISEASE

Actually, seconding what Retsudo said.

Oda could sqaunder Sabo entirely. And make all this unworth while.

What I expect is that Sabo won't be as Ace was. He won't be that friendly older face of zero conflict.

I want him and Luffy to seem equalish, friendly at heart, but have some sort of conflict of interests.

Being as I don't actually think Luffy will be totally aligned with the revolutionaries that could be what it comes down to.

I also hope something has changed majorly about Sabo's personality.

Retsudo

@Deicide:

And Ace was Whitebeard's young ward.

If that's the only thing they really have in common function wise then Sabo isn't redundant.

Aohige_AP

@JERK:

I also hope something has changed majorly about Sabo's personality.

I just hope Sabo 20 years old isn't like Koza 2.

Halfmetal-lich

@JERK:

I want him and Luffy to seem equalish, friendly at heart, but have some sort of conflict of interests.

Being as I don't actually think Luffy will be totally aligned with the revolutionaries that could be what it comes down to.

I also hope something has changed majorly about Sabo's personality.

I agree with this and I'm pretty sure that's what we're gonna get.

JERK DISEASE

@Aohige_AP:

I just hope Sabo 20 years old isn't like Koza 2.

Kohza's main problem was how one note and personalityless he was.
There's lots of reasons to think Sabo won't turn out like that.

And considering Kohza was a character that Oda never had to have interact with Luffy, he got lazy, he can't do that with Sabo.

Mingo22

@Mugiwara_no_Ice:

What's this 'Sabo will link Luffy to the revolutionaries'-posts I read. His fricking FATHER is the boss of that organization. isn't that enough.

ur retarded. i said his generation because its all about passing wills onto the next generations. its like wbd said. he cant be the best forever. he jist disnt have enough time to mold ace into his replacement.

Mugiwara_no_Ice

@Mingo22:

ur retarded. i said his generation because its all about passing wills onto the next generations. its like wbd said. he cant be the best forever. he jist disnt have enough time to mold ace into his replacement.

Retarded you said?

Zik

@brennen.exe:

I uhh, I don't see how it's a big deal either? "No big deal" was in the post you quoted, after all.

This:

Originally Posted by brennen.exe
Oda basically created, or introduced us to, a "new" brother at the exact moment he was killing off the only brother we knew existed. Had Sabo been handled more like Dadan, Garp, Whitebeard, Blackbeard, Dragon, Mihawk, Jinbei, Hancock, Lola's mom, Kaidou, etc, etc, etc it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

Gave me the impression that it was some kind of a big deal since saying the opposite of what happened would make it not a big deal.

I was just pointing out a gripe I had with how Oda handled him, then everyone came to Oda's rescue.

I understand what you're opinion of it is but other ppl who hold this stance then take the liberty to say they hope Oda doesn't turn Sabo in to some crappy, redundant, other inane adjectives that aren't at all probable character.

Bobjr

It was never stated whether Sabo's body was found or not. That was left to the unknown. And Dogura didn't return until quite a while later. A person's more likely to have terrible injuries from being burnt then being in an explosion, Though that's more because an explosions usually straight up kill them. Anyway, The point being that the injuries from being burnt can also be considered terrible.

Olvia smiled when she hugged Robin, But she didn't die then. She died later, Where she wasn't shown smiling. So there are examples of named characters dying without smiling.

And you think this forum has some brick walls.

Retsudo

What forum is that.

Bobjr

@Retsudo:

What forum is that.

SPPf. Until about a little bit ago the anime and manga sections had good members and decent discussions, now it's stuff like that.

Though the Naruto stuff was never good.

Cyan D. Funk

@Bobjr:

SPPf. Until about a little bit ago the anime and manga sections had good members and decent discussions, now it's stuff like that.

Though the Naruto stuff was never good.

Is anyone like Sogeking or Rave still there to dull the stupid?

Bobjr

@Cyan:

Is anyone like Sogeking or Rave still there to dull the stupid?

Well I'm Sogeking from there, and Rave sometimes show up.

Zik

A person's more likely to have terrible injuries from being burnt then being in an explosion

Oh shit !!!!!!!!!!!!

Cyan D. Funk

@Bobjr:

Well I'm Sogeking from there, and Rave sometimes show up.

Always had the suspicion.

Things must be worse than I thought when I left.