If Heaven had even a tiniest chance to resemble Seiretei, being Hollow would be the thing.
Felch Discussion Part 3
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Eh, doesn't sound too much different from the Heaven of the SMT-verse, where the Angels are a bunch of arrogant assholes and the Big Man Himself can get to be even worse.
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Smt ?
And I just realised something guys . The second to last chapter which actualy delat with the Yammy fight came out when this thread started 248 pages ago and stil no updates after 383 .
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@No:
Smt ?
Shin Megami Tensei. A notoriously difficult video game franchise by Atlus where the forces of Heaven often end up being the villains. Did I mention that it's really difficult?
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@Tokoro:
Better? You think "stop a madman who has god delusions and who ends up tied to everything because Kubo likes retconning" better? Listen, I'm not saying Naruto's plot is Shakespeare, but at least it feels consistant when done right compared to Bleach. That series is about pretty much trying to stop a cycle of hatred that pretty much defines the means why these characters even need ninjas. Bleach in a nutshell is "Aizen did it, screw you, try and fix it".
And unpredictable doesn't mean good. Take the example that was being discussed above: when we saw Zommari initially, we thought he was going to be this silent bad-ass and the initial phase of his fight with Byakuya didn't dissapoint. Then he releases…and he's a stupid pumpkin monster with powers that can perfectly be stopped by Mr. "White Pride" and down he goes. There are so many other ridiculous examples that just scream less "a plot twist that makes you think" and more "what drugs did Kubo take today and why can't we get him off them". I don't mind an unpredictable story sometimes, but the plot twists have to make sense and not be retcons or "the author thinks it's cool so...here it is."
And...(chuckles) art? (guffaws) You think this series (starts laughing manically) has....(laughs hysterically for several minutes before calming down)
Yeah, maybe Kubo can draw better than Kishi but I wouldn't call it art by a longshot.
Naruto's plot is as cliched as cliched gets. With Bleach there are multiple things to it and it's pretty unpredictable. Kubo has already pulled several huge plot twists on us. Bleach is more interesting because it's not consistent. You don't know what's going to happen next. We still don't know Aizen's true motives nor the full extent of his goals. There are a lot of questions about the plot that I look forward to being answered.
While unpredictable doesn't instantly mean good, it's still a good quality to have, and Naruto doesn't have it while Bleach might actually be the most unpredictable Anime I have ever seen. I hardly consider a release as being an unpredictable plot twist other than Ulquiorra's Second Release as well as Yammy's Release.
I agree that Kubo draws better than Kishi and Oda.
From what kubo's been showing us lately i'm dead serious about that.
A Vasto Lorde Arrancar is going to be to be much, much, much > Yammy. Just two, maybe three at most, Vasto Lordes would be enough to take out all of the Espadas. Let alone five taking out just Yammy.
You want Heaven (assuming we're talking about the possible Judeo Christian Heaven here) to be a poor feudal Japan slum with a noble system that fucks over at least half of the population.
You also feel pain and shit and can die… again.
Wat?
Not only do I like the idea of being reincarnated without end, but I would love to be a Shinigami, mainly because I love sword play.
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Not only do I like the idea of being reincarnated without end, but I would love to be a Shinigami, mainly because I love sword play.
Let's review.
I'm ok with swords and sword play.
The idea of reincarnation IS awesome.
But the idea that Heaven, the "final" resting place for your soul is a f**king feudal slum with a Nobility based hierarchy doesn't sit well with me.
Althou… we really haven't seen "Heaven" in Bleach yet... but something tells me it's going to be SHITTIER than Soul Society.
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Let's review.
I'm ok with swords and sword play.
The idea of reincarnation IS awesome.
But the idea that Heaven, the "final" resting place for your soul is a f**king feudal slum with a Nobility based hierarchy doesn't sit well with me.
Althou… we really haven't seen "Heaven" in Bleach yet... but something tells me it's going to be SHITTIER than Soul Society.
Soul Society is Bleach's version of Heaven.
I wouldn't look at it so negatively. I would enjoy Soul Society.
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Naruto's plot is as cliched as cliched gets. With Bleach there are multiple things to it and it's pretty unpredictable. Kubo has already pulled several huge plot twists on us. Bleach is more interesting because it's not consistent. You don't know what's going to happen next. We still don't know Aizen's true motives nor the full extent of his goals. There are a lot of questions about the plot that I look forward to being answered.
While unpredictable doesn't instantly mean good, it's still a good quality to have, and Naruto doesn't have it while Bleach might actually be the most unpredictable Anime I have ever seen. I hardly consider a release as being an unpredictable plot twist other than Ulquiorra's Second Release as well as Yammy's Release.
I agree that Kubo draws better than Kishi and Oda.
At this point I don't care about Aizen's motives and never really did to tell the truth. He's just a boring villain who just seems to be doing things "just to be the best", let alone pretty much ripping off a few other villains from much better manga while he's at it. And while I get your obsession with unpredictability, I still say it's a bad thing for this series. For the most part, whenever Kubo pulls something unpredictable, it turns out to be something so stupid you just wonder "what the frig was he thinking". Likewise, predictability doesn't mean it's bad either. It's all in the means by which the story is told…and personally, I say at this point Naruto at least has such a thing as a "story" while Bleach is more a character piece with a story Kubo makes up as he goes along.
Oh, and to tell the truth, I really am not a fan of Kubo's art style even if it is better than Kishi's. I always seem to prefer mangaka who seem a tad more cartoony I guess but can still tell a captivating story, like Oda, Mashima (well RAVE-era Mashima) or Raiku. Heck, I even prefer Sawai over Kubo's art considering how it seems to balance the serious and the insane and goofy.
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I would enjoy Soul Society.
You won't be saying that when Old Man Genocide's slamming a blade that destroys you soul down on you just for panicking and being desperate.
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@Tokoro:
At this point I don't care about Aizen's motives and never really did to tell the truth. He's just a boring villain who just seems to be doing things "just to be the best", let alone pretty much ripping off a few other villains from much better manga while he's at it. And while I get your obsession with unpredictability, I still say it's a bad thing for this series. For the most part, whenever Kubo pulls something unpredictable, it turns out to be something so stupid you just wonder "what the frig was he thinking". Likewise, predictability doesn't mean it's bad either. It's all in the means by which the story is told…and personally, I say at this point Naruto at least has such a thing as a "story" while Bleach is more a character piece with a story Kubo makes up as he goes along.
Oh, and to tell the truth, I really am not a fan of Kubo's art style even if it is better than Kishi's. I always seem to prefer mangaka who seem a tad more cartoony I guess but can still tell a captivating story, like Oda, Mashima (well RAVE-era Mashima) or Raiku. Heck, I even prefer Sawai over Kubo's art considering how it seems to balance the serious and the insane and goofy.
Personally Aizen is the best and most interesting Main Villain I have ever seen in any Anime. I don't think Aizen's goal is necessarily to be the best so much as it is that he just has to acquire power to achieve his goals. After all he himself admitted that Yamamoto was far stronger.
Bleach's unpredictability is probably the main reason people continue to read it. Without it I'm sure a lot more fans would have stopped reading Bleach lately. Personally I think it's a major and great aspect of Bleach as without it, it would also be extremely cliched, like Naruto. The story in Bleach shows that Kubo doesn't just make it up as he goes along for the most part. It's pretty well detailed and almost completely free of plot holes (possibly completely free but I thought I would leave it open just in case).
Fair enough about the art. Every one has their own taste. I not only prefer Bleach's art style but I truly think it is better.
Oda is an amazing story teller, by far the best in that regard of the big three, at least in my opinion.
@Cyan:
You won't be saying that when Old Man Genocide's slamming a blade that destroys you soul down on you just for panicking and being desperate.
Yes I would, although, I don't think I would disobey to that point.
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Kubo is a lazy ass writer that doesn't give a shit about his storyline and just tosses whatever he thinks looks cool into the plot. His form of unpredictability doesn't, in any way, deserve praise.
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Personally Aizen is the best and most interesting Main Villain I have ever seen in any Anime. I don't think Aizen's goal is necessarily to be the best so much as it is that he just has to acquire power to achieve his goals. After all he himself admitted that Yamamoto was far stronger.
Bleach's unpredictability is probably the main reason people continue to read it. Without it I'm sure a lot more fans would have stopped reading Bleach lately. Personally I think it's a major and great aspect of Bleach as without it, it would also be extremely cliched, like Naruto. The story in Bleach shows that Kubo doesn't just make it up as he goes along for the most part. It's pretty well detailed and almost completely free of plot holes (possibly completely free but I thought I would leave it open just in case).
Fair enough about the art. Every one has their own taste. I not only prefer Bleach's art style but I truly think it is better.
Oda is an amazing story teller, by far the best in that regard of the big three, at least in my opinion.
Yes I would, although, I don't think I would disobey to that point.
And Aizen strikes yet again!
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@Uncle:
Kubo is a lazy ass writer that doesn't give a shit about his storyline and just tosses whatever he thinks looks cool into the plot. His form of unpredictability doesn't, in any way, deserve praise.
Other than him being lazier than most Mangakas of the same level that is completely false.
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Admit it Shoracehawk425 …...you're Aizen
No one lese in existence takes Bleach seriously anymore :ninja:
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Oh wow, I seem to have came to this thread at the same time a bleachtard is in here posting. Kubo's said himself that he doesn't really plan ahead (see comment that Aizen originally was supposed to be dead until he decided it'd be cool if he wasn't), draws what he sees as cool (see previous parenthetical point), and has to reread his own manga to remember old stuff (evidenced many times by him forgetting important stuff, the mass amounts of plotholes/retcons his "making it up as he goes to be cool" method creates, etc. most recent example of forgetting something: Rangiku rushing off to see Gin… now Gin is in Soul Society (where real Karakura town is) and Isshin/Ichigo are in the in-between area so clearly she isn't following Gin:getlost:).
/respondtostupidpostwithstuffeveryoneelseknows
Anyway, yeah, welcome to the thread Aizen. -
Wait, who wants to be in Soul Society? You would be fodder or miserable, mostly both.
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I didn't even know bleachtards existed (not saying anyone here is one) .
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@No:
I didn't even know bleachtards existed (not saying anyone here is one) .
Perhaps saying he's a bleachtard is too much, but he seems to be trying. Or trolling. Doubt the latter, but it's always a possibility on the internet and the fact that he genuinely is trying to defend Kubo/Bleach could point to that.
Edit: I will admit I am looking forward to one thing in this manga: the end of the Deicide chapters… XP -
The story in Bleach shows that Kubo doesn't just make it up as he goes along for the most part.
Um…Kubo has pretty much blatantly stated that he makes everything up as he goes along in interviews.
I can't seem to find it, does anyone here have the link?
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When he said that Aizen is a good vilian his true collors as a troll were shown. He's not aizen, the illusion isn't perfect.
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But what he says makes absolutely no sense , he must be Aizen :ninja:
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Oh wow, I seem to have came to this thread at the same time a bleachtard is in here posting. Kubo's said himself that he doesn't really plan ahead (see comment that Aizen originally was supposed to be dead until he decided it'd be cool if he wasn't), draws what he sees as cool (see previous parenthetical point), and has to reread his own manga to remember old stuff (evidenced many times by him forgetting important stuff, the mass amounts of plotholes/retcons his "making it up as he goes to be cool" method creates, etc. most recent example of forgetting something: Rangiku rushing off to see Gin… now Gin is in Soul Society (where real Karakura town is) and Isshin/Ichigo are in the in-between area so clearly she isn't following Gin).
/respondtostupidpostwithstuffeveryoneelseknows
Anyway, yeah, welcome to the thread Aizen.He said he doesn't always plan ahead. You can clearly see with Shinji that he planned ahead. Not only did Shinji's character design show up at the very beginning of Bleach, but his Shikai was strongly hinted at from his first appearance, and even then that is just the beginning. He strongly hinted at Yammy being really powerful well more than a hundred chapters before Yammy was revealed to be the strongest Espada.
He has managed to give us several twists and turns, with everything falling into Aizen's hands, while still making sense. I'm not saying he sits down and thinks about everything thoroughly. However to say everything he does is completely made up, let alone just to look cool, is completely false. If he was trying to do nothing more than insert cool things we wouldn't still have 12 unseen Bankais (not even including the Royal Guard mind you).
I seriously doubt he forgot about Matsumoto. I'm sure she is going to follow them to Karakura Town. Even if he did end up forgetting about her it's nothing more than an insignificant point. That doesn't make the story any less intelligently written.
Perhaps saying he's a bleachtard is too much, but he seems to be trying. Or trolling. Doubt the latter, but it's always a possibility on the internet and the fact that he genuinely is trying to defend Kubo/Bleach could point to that.
Huh? How does defending a few things make some one a troll? If anything that is just your attempt to cover up your lack of a better argument.
I have actually been quite negative and disappointed towards Bleach the last few weeks. However it doesn't mean I agree with things that were being said about him earlier on in this thread.
My only complaints about Bleach, which are the root of my negativity lately, are the pacing and lack of creativity as of late. Kubo's pacing of Bleach is very frustrating. With some details, but not with the main plot, it seems like he just drags it out until he can think of how to order his plot and once he does he rushes it like there's no tomorrow. Therefore the effect that this causes is crappy pacing. It's always either dragging or it's going way too fast. I also have problems with him wasting so many pages every week. I know Kubo has to work hard on this stuff but is it really necessary to give six whole pages to Keigo and Tatsuki arguing? As for the lack of creativity, when you think about it, only two or three Bankais have had degrees of creativity to them. The rest were way too unoriginal and/or plain. My hope is that he is just saving his creative thinking cap for the more powerful characters, but, that doesn't mean some of the other Bankais haven't been disappointing.
So as you can see I very much have my own issues with Kubo and Bleach. However it doesn't mean I have to agree with your complaints, and quite frankly, I put forth evidence contradicting it. Calling me a Bleachtard is just silly and immature when I'm the one who came here with evidence where as all you could come up with was insults. Good for you buddy. Pat yourself on the back. I hope it made you feel better.
When he said that Aizen is a good vilian his true collors as a troll were shown. He's not aizen, the illusion isn't perfect.
Well, quite frankly, it is just my opinion. However I do have good reason to believe it. If you could put forth solid evidence contradicting why I believe he's a good villain, then please, lay it all out. I would very much like to see it. I find Aizen to be underrated as a villain because people pay so much attention to his lectures and power while paying so little attention to the other things he has done that they just write him off as a plain, and yet typical, Superman villain. However he's actually quite unique, he has done a lot of questionable things, that can't be solved by researching other typical Anime villains. We don't know the full extent of his goals. Obviously becoming the Soul King is one of them but how would that entail him toying with his own henchmen and practically planning for them kicking the bucket? We have yet to figure out his reasoning for this. Aizen has pretty much managed to mind eff not only the whole of Soul Society, but even us a lot of the time, not many predicted Aizen being a villain in the first place. People didn't predict that Aizen purposely lured the Captains to Hueco Mundo just so he could seal it. Not many, if any one at all, predicted that he was just using the likes of Tousen as an experiment for the Hogyoku so he could fuse with it and used research on the Hogyoku through Ichigo and his friends for that purpose. One thing that separates Aizen from most typical main villains is that he's admittedly not the most powerful character. Yamamoto is far more powerful than himself. Yet Aizen used strategy to get Yamamoto to take himself out.
In conclusion he is not your typical main villain that just owns everyone and where there is nothing more to him than him wanting to rule the world. The full extent of his goals and motives are unclear, he has back story to reveal to us including his relationship with Isshin, and he's very unpredictable. Him being one of the most powerful characters is just a bonus but is not the main reason he is a great villain. He's a great villain because there's depth to his character that we have not yet come to realize simply because his personality and history is shrouded with mystery. He does despicable things but at the same time refuses to kill anyone aside from the citizens of Karakura Town and Yamamoto. He purposely toys with his own henchmen. He plans for the defeat of his own henchmen a lot of the time while instilling confidence in them. He then goes on to state they should have never trusted them. All of this for what reason? We have yet to know. Why? Because Aizen's character has depth and we don't understand him yet. We don't know what he's going to do next because it could be any thing.
@No:
But what he says makes absolutely no sense
If you could perhaps point me to where I didn't make sense so I could attempt to clarify it I would be grateful.
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It's like… he's trying to convince us that the earth is flat.
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I saw a video where an old Arab guy was actrualy claiming that for real . Shot like in 2006 .
His research consisted mostly of…..climbing up a mosque :P
@ Shoracehawk : I didn't mean to sound mean or anything , it's just…..you think the plot in Bleach is good and you're interested in Aizen . That is......unusual to say the least . :ninja:
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It's not too unusual. I actually see more people that like both than not.
Besides, it's not like I'm saying Bleach's plot is amazing, just that it's better than Naruto's.
I find One Piece's plot to be far better than Bleach's personally.
I definitely think Aizen is a great main villain though, the problem is the people that hate him tend to not really think it through thoroughly, and hate him just because they assume he's the typical villain based on his lectures and power without giving it enough thought to realize that he's actually more unique than one might give him credit for.
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Well apart from his suposed orchestration of everything that ever happened evidently not making sense , his anoying "no that can't hit me" monologue and his bland design…...well there's nothing much to like for me personaly .
Also do you realise if we get nothing on the Kenpaichi /Bak(?)something vs. Yammy fight this week it will be 26 straight chapters since last we saw it ?
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Besides, it's not like I'm saying Bleach's plot is amazing, just that it's better than Naruto's.
Been trying to spread this message to much fail…
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When Aizen revealed that he is the one behind totally everything, he proved to be a bad troll.
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I haven't been on this thread for a while and I'm too lazy right now to make a "lazy" reference with Kubo but…
whoever posted that "Bleach porn/Youruichi comic" whatever a few weeks ago is awesome...
and whoever compared me to Tousen is a genius.
That is all.
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@No:
Well apart from his suposed orchestration of everything that ever happened evidently not making sense , his anoying "no that can't hit me" monologue and his bland design…...well there's nothing much to like for me personaly .
Also do you realise if we get nothing on the Kenpaichi /Bak(?)something vs. Yammy fight this week it will be 26 straight chapters since last we saw it ?
1. I just enjoy his unpredictability. He also leaves me very curious about his some times hilarious personality when messing with his own subordinates lol. Just so much mystery behind him that is actually caused by his very own character which intrigues me.
2. Yeah. It doesn't really bother me, unless this week is going to be as boring as the last few weeks, then I would just rather it go back to Hueco Mundo lol.
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It does bother me especialy since he was suposed to be the strongest Espada all of a sudden . Then for twenty chapters we got not a token panel of him fighting , then we got four or so chapters , at the end of which he turned into an even bigger version of himself and since then nothing .
I mean what would it have been impossible to have a one page update at the price of having Ichigo ask "What the hell did you just say ?" on only three pages ?
If we didn't have bullshit like that but actual content I could much more easily accept this .
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Zaraki and Byakuya will show up at Soul Society on a "hunch" and when asked what happend to yammi, We'll get a scene of mayuri with yammi in a jar due to some shrinking potion that will be explained with a long scientific analogy.
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Trust me when I say this, it'll all look better when it's animated.
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When Aizen revealed that he is the one behind totally everything, he proved to be a bad troll.
I find it kinda funny, makes you predict future events like these:
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I want that to happen.
Seriously.
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It is good that Kubo inserts only his cool ideas and does not borrow ideas that he sees and discovers as cool (from movies, etc.).
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I can see that happening very easily.
Wait, JamJamStyle… are you really Kubo? You are, aren't you?
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I find it kinda funny, makes you predict future events like these:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1139/1111g.png
Well, I'd agree that it's stupidly fun.
But, as people say, when troll reveals himself, he has failed. That's what I tried to get at.and whoever compared me to Tousen is a genius.
That comic quoted you word for word, man. I couldn't help seeing it that way.
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I find it kinda funny, makes you predict future events like these:
[qimg]http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1139/1111g.png[/qimg]
DUDE what the hell, use spoilers, that's completely uncalled for, you just ruined the rest of this arc for me.
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This post is deleted!
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It is good that Kubo inserts only his cool ideas and does not borrow ideas that he sees and discovers as cool (from movies, etc.).
Lol, you're talking here about a guy who's application was rejected after they labeled Bleach's entire core to be very simular to Yu Yu Hakusho. And with the recent
hyperbolic time chamber"precipe world" arc where Isshin wants to teach Ichigo the finalkamehamehaTenshou, how can you say that he doesn't "borrow" ideas?I can see that happening very easily.
Wait, JamJamStyle… are you really Kubo? You are, aren't you?
:ninja:
DUDE what the hell, use spoilers, that's completely uncalled for, you just ruined the rest of this arc for me.
End of this arc? I'd say the end of this manga where Aizen reveals that he had this planned since the day Ichigo was born.
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@Shorace: In my post, I said I did NOT think you were a troll, but the possibility is always there, and gave reason why I saw a small possibility. In any case, I'm actually interested in your take on the Bleach chapters from now on since it's not the usual around these parts. I think most of us see your view as arguing the earth is flat (to borrow that from a post from the previous page), and don't want to argue against you any more, no offense meant by that, we're just kind of taken aback by your unusual opinion (for this forum anyway). Hopefully most of us are looking forward to your opinion for some reason or another. You seem to be a One Piece fan, so even if I don't agree with you about Bleach, that's pretty irrelevant imo on a One Piece forum such as this.
Anyway, now taking bets on this chapter's title being Deicide 11 or something new…
HEY wait! Maybe No Maam would get a sliver of faith restored if the titular god to be killed in the Deicide chapters is Yammy and Deicide 11 returns to, and finishes that fight... too bad Kubo wouldn't do that... =/ -
DUDE what the hell, use spoilers, that's completely uncalled for, you just ruined the rest of this arc for me.
Refii. That avatar.
Nice.
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Why does this Aizen crap remind me of Anger Management? I guess it has a character in them that tells the main character that they're behind all the stuff that happened. That they planned everything to happen.
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Why does this Aizen crap remind me of Anger Management?
because ichigo is about as smart as Adam Sandler from the Waterboy
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Just watched the new episode. Is the anime actually making this moderately less crappy by adding foreshadowing to the Starrk/Lilinette thing and extending the fights (which are the only good parts anyway)? Also lol at Omaeda indirectly pointing out that Kubo's been making them fight in the sky where there's nothing there as a background to take advantage of. And again I gotta facepalm @ Soi Fon's bankai.
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Just watched the new episode. Is the anime actually making this moderately less crappy by adding foreshadowing to the Starrk/Lilinette thing and extending the fights (which are the only good parts anyway)? Also lol at Omaeda indirectly pointing out that Kubo's been making them fight in the sky where there's nothing there as a background to take advantage of. And again I gotta facepalm @ Soi Fon's bankai.
While everything you said about Stark and Lilinette is true, to me everything with Omaeda is utter crap no matter what fluff is added to it. I just hate the guy and everything he stands for. I still have to appreciate how cool Baragann is though…
And yes, seeing Soi Fon's Bankai animated only makes me facepalm even harder. It looks cool, but the fact that a character pulls a giant nuclear missile of their ass is ridiculous, even by Bleach standards. At least with Mayuri a giant creepy poisonous doll thing is more intriguing to see than this.
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HEY wait! Maybe No Maam would get a sliver of faith restored if the titular god to be killed in the Deicide chapters is Yammy and Deicide 11 returns to, and finishes that fight… too bad Kubo wouldn't do that... =/
God I would so lol .
You know , I am probably the only one here but I would be so glad when Yammy would show up and say he defeated Kenpaichi and Bakuya , and then would get confused where Aizen went . :ninja:
Also what did Omaeda say in the episode ?
As for the character , what I've seen of him isn't that bad (and he's a little better then some random normal guy with glasses) , but his fight against that elephant fraccion was so horrible because the guy looked like crap .
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@No:
God I would so lol .
You know , I am probably the only one here but I would be so glad when Yammy would show up and say he defeated Kenpaichi and Bakuya , and then would get confused where Aizen went . :ninja:
Also what did Omaeda say in the episode ?
As for the character , what I've seen of him isn't that bad (and he's a little better then some random normal guy with glasses) , but his fight against that elephant fraccion was so horrible because the guy looked like crap .
Thing about the guy is, I just hate rich fat people. I admit he gets a chuckle out of me here and there, but that's about it. It's only opinion though. I mean I like Momo and 85% of Bleach fans hate her guts.
I forget what he said. I just remember him chucking a building at Barragan and then running after he failed.
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@Cyan:
Refii. That avatar.
Nice.
Thank you sir. Your taste in music and legends is impecable.
I was torn between the middle finger and a picture with the guitar on his back, but then I saw this and I connected.As for the Yammy conversation.. let me get this straight:
I was under the impression that I had just somehow forgotten about it, but the fight was never resolved?So… Yammy is the new Aizen after all this?