Bleach Discussion Part 2

GEPPETTOSMONSTER

I please let all three together fail to defeat him. Unohana should do the job.

As much as I favor kenpachi over Unohana, I would have to agree with you on this since kubo promised some time ago that we would see Unohana fight in the near future.

Tokoro Ataru

! Ichigo as Frankenstein's Monster…well at least Kubo understands who he is: an artificially created being who goes where the plot takes him.
! As for the spoiler...well it's great that Ichigo didn't defeat Yammy that easily, but do we really need another fight for Byakuya and Kenny after those two easily crushed their Espada? Sort of hope we get a team effort from then...but yeah, I would love to see Unohana (and Isane) help them out.

goty

@Tokoro:

! Sort of hope we get a team effort from then…but yeah, I would love to see Unohana (and Isane) help them out.

! Watch Mayuri showing up to deliver the final blow while they're arguing.

Chrissie

[hide] Heck yeah! Mayuri or Unohana killing Yammy would be awesome. I don't like Byakuya that much…He leaves me uninterested. Dunno why. Kenpachi is bloody amazing. But what about Yachiru? D: Where is she? She cracks me up! O:[/hide]

Tokoro Ataru

! I didn't include Mayuri because he pretty much owns all four of them. I like Kenny but Mayuri always seems like he has some weird new thing that will confuse the heck out of us but crush the enemy at the same time. Besides, he's probably still figuring out those "dead beings in Szayel's room"…but I would like Nemu to show up in his place.

Nobodyman

! Ah, thank God. At least we're not going to have Ichigo IHKOing Yammy's ass. And yes! Way excited to see Kenpachi! (and Byakuya)

Hinscher

! oh great another ichigo at like full power does nothing, yet then two guys he beat when he was nothing compared to now in strength are gonna beat the guy.
! seriously what the hell where kenpachi and byakuya doing back then to get beaten if they are so damn strong now. It's like rukia as well, how the FUCK did she get beaten in chapter one by that pussy. she should have been able to slice him up in a blink of an eye.
! but no she sucks ass, then as soon as she gets her powers back again she kicks ass and beats an arancar like nothing. damnit author at least keep the power levels consistent.

FireFistAce 0

@Hinscher:

! oh great another ichigo at like full power does nothing, yet then two guys he beat when he was nothing compared to now in strength are gonna beat the guy.
! seriously what the hell where kenpachi and byakuya doing back then to get beaten if they are so damn strong now. It's like rukia as well, how the FUCK did she get beaten in chapter one by that pussy. she should have been able to slice him up in a blink of an eye.
! but no she sucks ass, then as soon as she gets her powers back again she kicks ass and beats an arancar like nothing. damnit author at least keep the power levels consistent.

The Arrancar Rukia fought was a Gillian level Arrancar; he was a leftover from Aizen's prototype Arrancar. The only reason he was still an Arrancar was because of his broken illusion ability. The strongest opponent Rukia fought in Hueco Mundo was Rudobon, probably.

As for Byakuya and Kenpachi, If you recall, Byakuya only lost because Ichigo went into Hollow form, which tore the shit out of him. Even after the fight and the help from Hollow form, though, Ichigo was near death as well. As for Kenpachi, Kenpachi is a nut job. He enjoys battles, so he didn't fight Ichigo at full strength. He didn't use Kendo, although he did remove his eyepatch. He's been training since then, anyway. Remember, Kenpachi is the newest Captain. Even Hitsugaya has been a Captain longer than him.

Hinscher

@Fire Fist:

The Arrancar Rukia fought was a Gillian level Arrancar; he was a leftover from Aizen's prototype Arrancar. The only reason he was still an Arrancar was because of his broken illusion ability. The strongest opponent Rukia fought in Hueco Mundo was Rudobon, probably.

As for Byakuya and Kenpachi, If you recall, Byakuya only lost because Ichigo went into Hollow form, which tore the shit out of him. Even after the fight and the help from Hollow form, though, Ichigo was near death as well. As for Kenpachi, Kenpachi is a nut job. He enjoys battles, so he didn't fight Ichigo at full strength. He didn't use Kendo, although he did remove his eyepatch. He's been training since then, anyway. Remember, Kenpachi is the newest Captain. Even Hitsugaya has been a Captain longer than him.

if you recall when hollow ichigo came out he stated that ichigo was a pussy and was beat by his own raitsu. ichigo was slowly becomoing slower and weaker in the fight because he was not able to handle his whole pwoer. and now he is and much more.

yea i know rukia's oppenent arrancar was a pussy arrancar, but still 1000x stronger than that episode 1 hollow.

and well kenpachi is still bullshit, maybe if he learned at least his swords name then i would believe it, but still he should have owned ichigo back then. ichigo was such a pussy.

edit: also i don't care how much you want to say they are training or whatever. Nothing compares to the leaps and bounds that ichigo makes in his training. It is constantly pounded into us how he does things that take years to do in a day or two, and hell he even does things faster than the one who did it the fastest before, sandelhat. so don't say shit like they trained their ass off, ichigo is still as the authro is telling us doing shit faster than anyone by miles and also he seems to be stronger naturally than anyone by miles. his hollow is scarier stronger than any ohter hollow for vizards. he has amazing regen, fastest speed, ect. we are like thrown at shit he does and how amazing it is. then he barely beats some guy and a stronger guy comes, yet i'm supposed to believe that a prior opponent that ichogo beat liek 8 upgrades ago is able to beat him. plz.

Lordzeb

well this is come consistancy, tbh it caught me offguard. Byakuya and Kenpachi are needed to take this guy down though…i wonder how Yammy stacks up with the top 3 then...not really the espada are turds waits for the aizen fight

goty

@Hinscher:

and well kenpachi is still bullshit, maybe if he learned at least his swords name then i would believe it, but still he should have owned ichigo back then. ichigo was such a pussy.

Kubo says his biggest inspiration is Saint Seiya. Makes sense.
In that series, the Golden Saints were hyped as an unbeatable, out of this world force. Still, almost all of them were defeated by the main Bronze Saints rookies.
Afterwards, as allies, they become the unbeatable force again, taking out enemies the Bronze pussies can't handle. Familiar much?

Corsair King

Complaining about power levels in Bleach is as retarded as the power levels themselves.

If anything, Kubo should be praised for them. The natural shonen power creep is in full effect with Bleach. If Kubo didn't give these characters seemingly random power leaps, everyone who is not Ichigo would be left in the dust a long time ago, and Ichigo would be the only one we ever see fight.

Kubo took a long, hard look at Bleach and said to himself, "Wow. My pacing is total balls. The way I write Bleach, it's impossible to actually accomplish anything in the way of story or character development. The only thing that's notable is the fighting. So I'm gonna' go ahead and throw the "Winter" War out the window, and start the battle right now. I could go into how everyone got stronger, or I could just start the fights this fucking minute. Bleach is a straight fighting manga, and I'm not going to try and hide that. People want fights, not generic training sequences."

Or that's how I imagine it went.

Hinscher

@Corsair:

Complaining about power levels in Bleach is as retarded as the power levels themselves.

If anything, Kubo should be praised for them. The natural shonen power creep is in full effect with Bleach. If Kubo didn't give these characters seemingly random power leaps, everyone who is not Ichigo would be left in the dust a long time ago, and Ichigo would be the only one we ever see fight.

Kubo took a long, hard look at Bleach and said to himself, "Wow. My pacing is total balls. The way I write Bleach, it's impossible to actually accomplish anything in the way of story or character development. The only thing that's notable is the fighting. So I'm gonna' go ahead and throw the "Winter" War out the window, and start the battle right now. I could go into how everyone got stronger, or I could just start the fights this fucking minute. Bleach is a straight fighting manga, and I'm not going to try and hide that. People want fights, not generic training sequences."

Or that's how I imagine it went.

no he should not be praised. If it was dealt with better then i would be fine. But for most part these epsada all seem as fast if not faster than ichigo, most have a generic powerful attack. So then how was if they are basically upgraded ichigo's of the past that beat them are they winning now.

now i can understand fights like the wierd scientist verse that smart guy, or byakuya vs the eye opponent. And others where like one piece, coincedentally they happened to fight the perfect opponent for them. But like kenpachi, he is fighting a 1000x stronger ichigo that beat him, nothing different except this espada is more resolved thus stronger as well in taht regard.

Renji to me is just pathetic, he really bit the dust on his bankai. it is too damn slow and clunky. But I'm fine with them seemingly stronger or fighter much stronger guys if dealt with correctly. But an espada who is stronger than ichigo and same fighting style shoudl not be beat by someone who ichigo beat not too long ago, when ichigo was super weak compared to now.

i'd take the cheap ass perfect opponent (usopp vs. perona) (byakua vs. eye dude) over nonsense shit like kenpachi any day. Or how come the captains were saying how omg these higher than 10 guys we only won becuase we got lucky with a surprise power up, yet now they are fighting the espada top five better than they were those guys.

sorry if i'm not buying the next arc again the captains will somehow be ableto hold their own. the only one who is set up to hold his own is possibly kenpachi by achieving sword name and bankai. Or a couple others who we haven't seen go bankai yet. the rest should become yajarobi's, we dont' need any krillins or tien's. just stay home and watch the cat.

Unrequited

! Fuck. Where's Mayuri?

Hinscher

@Unrequited:

! Fuck. Where's Mayuri?

probably getting blood work, skin test, semen samples, piss and other things from that espada. he loves to test shit.

Mugiwara Kaizoku

oh my god, the stalling for time is endless…
i hope at least the three of them will finish him quickly... kenpachi's dual kempo slash should space rip HM itself so that they can get fugged by Aizen already and Shinji doesn't need to cry for Ichid'oh no more.

btw, was anyone else surprised to hear that HM is supposed to be on a different planet, too?
with (probably) earth's moon nearby(or was it just painting on the ceiling?), that 'planet' can't be far away... but i always thought of it as another dimension.

Corsair King

@Hinscher:

no he should not be praised. If it was dealt with better then i would be fine. But for most part these epsada all seem as fast if not faster than ichigo, most have a generic powerful attack. So then how was if they are basically upgraded ichigo's of the past that beat them are they winning now.

now i can understand fights like the wierd scientist verse that smart guy, or byakuya vs the eye opponent. And others where like one piece, coincedentally they happened to fight the perfect opponent for them. But like kenpachi, he is fighting a 1000x stronger ichigo that beat him, nothing different except this espada is more resolved thus stronger as well in taht regard.
–-
But I'm fine with them seemingly stronger or fighter much stronger guys if dealt with correctly.

But an espada who is stronger than ichigo and same fighting style shoudl not be beat by someone who ichigo beat not too long ago, when ichigo was super weak compared to now.

When Ichigo lost to Nnoitra, he has literally just finished battling Grimmjow- the strongest opponent he had faced up until that point as well as one of the former Espada a little earlier. He was tired, physically and emotionally. At this point, he was no match for Nnoitra, but looking back at Ichigo versus Grimmjow after all this time, Ichigo didn't seem to be tremendously challenged by that fight. It's not unreasonable to believe he could have taken down Nnoitra if he were at 100%.

Kenpachi, who tied with Ichigo while holding back, came in at 100% against a Nnoitra who had already suffered some damage from Nel, and eventually attacked using what we can only judge at this point to be his full power. It could be revealed later that he was still holding back. I don't see any issue with Kenpachi winning this fight.

Renji to me is just pathetic, he really bit the dust on his bankai. it is too damn slow and clunky.

This is… related? I'm honestly a little lost here, but Renji hasn't shown any signs of getting any stronger at all since his fight with Byakuya in Soul Society. Regardless of how hard he may job in battle, Renji is one of the best developed characters in the series. He really doesn't have any place here, where he's been outmatched and has no plot relevance. Of course, there's almost no plot left in Bleach, so I guess he's a fish out of water for now.

i'd take the cheap ass perfect opponent (usopp vs. perona) (byakua vs. eye dude) over nonsense shit like kenpachi any day. Or how come the captains were saying how omg these higher than 10 guys we only won becuase we got lucky with a surprise power up, yet now they are fighting the espada top five better than they were those guys.

sorry if i'm not buying the next arc again the captains will somehow be ableto hold their own. the only one who is set up to hold his own is possibly kenpachi by achieving sword name and bankai. Or a couple others who we haven't seen go bankai yet.

Hmm. Maybe there's something to be said for combat experience and intelligence? Maybe the imminent threat of the Espada forced the captains to accelerate their training through methods that they had considered to be unconventional or unnecessary up until this point?

Or maybe Kubo realized he fucked up with the pacing for Hueco Mundo, and decided to rectify it by giving characters unexplained boosts in power instead of just allowing everyone who isn't Ichigo to fade into uselessness. I think I like this outcome, where the high-tier characters can actually do something, a little bit better than the alternative.

the rest should become yajarobi's, we dont' need any krillins or tien's. just stay home and watch the cat.

We've got one of those. He's called Ganju.

Oh puffwallow. I've allowed myself to enter a power level argument.

Tokoro Ataru

@Corsair:

We've got one of those. He's called Ganju.

You know one thing I liked about the Shibas (both Ganju and Kuukaku)? The fact that there were characters who were spiritually empowered in SS but didn't even use the typical Shinigami abilities like Kidou or Zanpakuto. Yoruichi still has something similar and is still relevant…well, somewhat, but somehow considering she used to rule 2nd Squad, Kubo will pull a Zanpakuto out someday and it will be dumb.

Vanessa

@Fire Fist:

The Arrancar Rukia fought was a Gillian level Arrancar; he was a leftover from Aizen's prototype Arrancar. The only reason he was still an Arrancar was because of his broken illusion ability. The strongest opponent Rukia fought in Hueco Mundo was Rudobon, probably.

Who are you talking about here?

Aaroniero?

loledinmypants

Is Kubo thinking he can turn Yammi into Oars fight? At least multiple captain+ lvl characters vs Yammi would be an awesome fight if done right. And if Unohana and/or Mayuri step in too it'll be win. Bleach only exists for the fights any more, so I don't bother trying to make sense of any story elements. I just know that watching Kenny go nuts is fun, Byak is a bit boring (except in the anime fillers he has me going wtf atm, still haven't seen the newest episode so if there's light shined on it, shh), and Mayuri fights are win. Can't say for Unohana yet, but that's what'd make him using her as part of the vs Yammi team cool.

Tsuchirinhon

@Fire Fist:

The Arrancar Rukia fought was a Gillian level Arrancar; he was a leftover from Aizen's prototype Arrancar. The only reason he was still an Arrancar was because of his broken illusion ability. The strongest opponent Rukia fought in Hueco Mundo was Rudobon, probably.

You do realize that he was winning for the entire duration of the fight until Rukia suddenly "reformed her Zanpakuto in his head" out of nowhere, right?

The point of Aaroniero was that he had limitless growth potential, which stood him apart from most Hollow. He had no power ceiling whatsoever, he can use all the abilities that he has absorbed simultaneously, he can perfectly impersonate any person that he has absorbed , etc. He was #9 because he relied more on stealth and deception tactics because of his lack of brute strength and weakness to sunlight.

He never even really got a chance to fight because it wouldn't be fair for Rukia [she never stood a chance], and since Rukia isn't allowed to die, she pulls something out of her butt at the last second to make sure the plot goes forward.

It's the same as how Allon was shitfucking everything in sight until Yamamoto steps in and urinates on him.

GEPPETTOSMONSTER

@goty:

Kubo says his biggest inspiration is Saint Seiya. Makes sense.
In that series, the Golden Saints were hyped as an unbeatable, out of this world force. Still, almost all of them were defeated by the main Bronze Saints rookies.
Afterwards, as allies, they become the unbeatable force again, taking out enemies the Bronze pussies can't handle. Familiar much?

Is there a place where someone can read the original saint seiya, cause all I can find is that new saint seiya series about the big battle that happen previous to the first series.

@Tsuchirinhon:

You do realize that he was winning for the entire duration of the fight until Rukia suddenly "reformed her Zanpakuto in his head" out of nowhere, right?

The point of Aaroniero was that he had limitless growth potential, which stood him apart from most Hollow. He had no power ceiling whatsoever, he can use all the abilities that he has absorbed simultaneously, he can perfectly impersonate any person that he has absorbed , etc. He was #9 because he relied more on stealth and deception tactics because of his lack of brute strength and weakness to sunlight.

He never even really got a chance to fight because it wouldn't be fair for Rukia [she never stood a chance], and since Rukia isn't allowed to die, she pulls something out of her butt at the last second to make sure the plot goes forward.

It's the same as how Allon was shitfucking everything in sight until Yamamoto steps in and urinates on him.

Allon has been by far one of the more creative and original things kubo has done. Allon reminded me of that magic guys weird creature from zombie powder.

Tokoro Ataru

@GEPPETTOSMONSTER:

Is there a place where someone can read the original saint seiya, cause all I can find is that new saint seiya series about the big battle that happen previous to the first series.

It has been released in the US if you want to read it legally. Otherwise, I put the original Japanese version on MH if you want to look it over.

Tsuchirinhon

@GEPPETTOSMONSTER:

Allon has been by far one of the more creative and original things kubo has done. Allon reminded me of that magic guys weird creature from zombie powder.

I… actually agree with you.

Refii

@Corsair:

If anything, Kubo should be praised for them.

You really want to be known as the juju of this thread?

The only things Kubo should be praised for are his fashionable clothing designs and ability to leave out any words from a 18 page manga week after week. I mean I have no clue why I bothered going to grade school, had I known I would have just spent my life drawing pictures without words like Kubo.

Tokoro Ataru

Slightly changing the subject: this week's episode was fun. Ikkaku/Houzukimaru was insane (though it was weird that Houzukimaru would just have one segment of the full Bankai though the "dye" being in him was cool) and I sort of liked the interaction between Soifon and Gonryuumaru (well don't blame him Sasakibe never used him but once) At least we finally get a new OP next week…I'm really sick of Shoujo S by now. (though I also find it strange that we have Iba and Isane facing Ashisoji Jizo...considering one has a Shikai with no name and the other has a named Shikai that didn't join the rebellion)

loledinmypants

I liked how even Mayuri's zanpakutou is badass, randomly showing up and scaring people at the end :P

choperman

queston to hinscher do you seriously want 200 extra chapters of ichigo training to power up… i mean if you don't like the manga (which it sounds like you don't) why would you want to read a hundred more chapters to explain how everyone got so much stronger.... no right then there's no need to complain figure it as a way to end the series quicker![](file:///C:/Users/bob/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png)

Hinscher

no i'm fine with ichigo having his super fast random power ups. but i'm saying its bullshit how the captains and even vice captains seem to be staying step for step with him in strength somehow.

kubo should write some way of them team battles, or some tricky way or creative way of winning their battles instead of them just somehow being strong enough to beat them by unexplained power jump.

Ivotas

@Hinscher:

no i'm fine with ichigo having his super fast random power ups. but i'm saying its bullshit how the captains and even vice captains seem to be staying step for step with him in strength somehow.

I don't see how it is a problem if the support cast gets stronger considering that this is a shonen manga. Also in the specific situation here, Kenpachi even declared after his defeat that he wants to get even stronger. And somebody like him isn't just talk but he surely trained like crazy so it makes pretty much sense that stays close to Ichigo strenght-wise.

loledinmypants

Well then, if Kubo does what he appears to be setting up and has Ichigo/Kenny/Byakura team up on Yammi, you should be satisfied, eh? In some cases it's implied that the characters who jumped in strength trained as much as Ichigo. At the very least, everyone was training with the winter war goal in mind. Though Aizen messed that schedule in the usaul villainy way.
Plus if you're reading this manga these days and expecting sense, you should know that went out the window in favor of more action a while ago.

Hinscher

well you guys must have just loved it when konumaru in naruto was fighting pain then huh. gotta love them power jumps randomly. don't know why you would read shit like one piece.

Ivotas

@Hinscher:

well you guys must have just loved it when konumaru in naruto was fighting pain then huh. gotta love them power jumps randomly. don't know why you would read shit like one piece.

You're comparing two completely different things here. Konohamaru was just a little weak kid that suddenly had power to stop one of the Pains. Kenpachi is someone who Ichigo defeated by an inch. At first sight it even looked like Kenpachi won. Remember the "Sorry everyone, my ass! You won the fight" statement. So yeah, Ichigo was slightly stronger. And if both characters train to get even stronger then I don't see why the gab should out of a sudden be tremendously bigger.

For the Konohamaru situation to apply in Bleach one of Ichigo's school friends (I'm forgetting their name) would need to out of a sudden be able to defeat an Espada.

And what was that statement about One Piece supposed to mean? Aren't Luffy's crewmates also growing stronger on their journey? It's a classic element of the shonen genre. It doesn't happen only in Bleach.

Megadoomer

@Hinscher:

well you guys must have just loved it when konumaru in naruto was fighting pain then huh. gotta love them power jumps randomly. don't know why you would read shit like one piece.

Are you attempting to establish yourself as the juju of the Bleach thread? Seriously, if you're trying to argue a point, use something that is relevant to the discussion, rather than just saying "lolz no u r wrong." None of the vice captains are even with Ichigo (Renji has become the new Chad, four of the vice captains (Matsumoto, Iba, Hisagi, Hinamori) couldn't even injure something summoned by three Fraccion, five vice captains (Nemu, Nanao, Yachiru, Yamamoto's VC, Unohana's VC) have yet to demonstrate anything, Kira is nowhere near the level of the main characters, Soifon's VC barely won against a single Fraccion and is primarily comedic relief, and there is no 13th division VC alive currently), and out of the captains, Kenpachi expressed the desire to become stronger after fighting Ichigo and clearly would have tried to, and Byakuya has a distinct advantage against Yammy (thousands of tiny fast-moving razor-sharp projectiles versus a slow-moving gigantic target with little-to-no brainpower). None of the others have had an extended fight with Ichigo, so it is more difficult to compare them.

Lordzeb

@Ivotas:

I don't see how it is a problem if the support cast gets stronger considering that this is a shonen manga. Also in the specific situation here, Kenpachi even declared after his defeat that he wants to get even stronger. And somebody like him isn't just talk but he surely trained like crazy so it makes pretty much sense that stays close to Ichigo strenght-wise.

There is no proof most of the supporting Vice/Captains have gotten stronger. What we have seen time and time again is that when we previously saw them fighting they were holding back. Hitsuguya and Kenpachi follow this formula completely even though we've seen them fighting and struggling to keep up before they revealed Super Snow and Two-Hands. We were falsely led to believe that they were operating at close to full strength before but instead Kubo writes they were holding back. That doesn't show training to keep up with Ichigo, its a cheap plot device have allows Kubo to balance his ridiculous Strength Hierarchy that escalates in leaps and bounds.

All the other Captains who've fought espada have simply used their release or Bankai. Again, this doesn't show keeping up with ichigo, instead it implies that they were there all along. Because he hasn't revealed certain characters Bankai yet he can easily use this tactic when Ichigo gets stronger to have certain characters keep up so he doesn't seem as OP as he is. I suppose the tactic isn't as cheap as im making it out to be but Kubo abuses it instead of keeping things within reason and offering plausible fight situations and outcomes.

choperman

@Lordzeb121:

There is no proof most of the supporting Vice/Captains have gotten stronger. What we have seen time and time again is that when we previously saw them fighting they were holding back. Hitsuguya and Kenpachi follow this formula completely even though we've seen them fighting and struggling to keep up before they revealed Super Snow and Two-Hands. We were falsely led to believe that they were operating at close to full strength before but instead Kubo writes they were holding back. That doesn't show training to keep up with Ichigo, its a cheap plot device have allows Kubo to balance his ridiculous Strength Hierarchy that escalates in leaps and bounds.

All the other Captains who've fought espada have simply used their release or Bankai. Again, this doesn't show keeping up with ichigo, instead it implies that they were there all along. Because he hasn't revealed certain characters Bankai yet he can easily use this tactic when Ichigo gets stronger to have certain characters keep up so he doesn't seem as OP as he is. I suppose the tactic isn't as cheap as im making it out to be but Kubo abuses it instead of keeping things within reason and offering plausible fight situations and outcomes.

it was stated somewhere that Kisuke Urahara was making it so that all the captains and vice captains would be strong enough to fight the espadas i think that would imply raining…. no (french accent)

Bobjr

@choperman:

it was stated somewhere that Kisuke Urahara was making it so that all the captains and vice captains would be strong enough to fight the espadas i think that would imply raining…. no (french accent)

The only thing Urahara did was make Hueco Mundo accessible. He didn't make anyone stronger, outside of training Chad and stuff like that.

choperman

@Bobjr:

The only thing Urahara did was make Hueco Mundo accessible. He didn't make anyone stronger, outside of training Chad and stuff like that.

really i could have sworn i saw that somewhere

Tokoro Ataru

The thing people have to take into account is this: not every single trick and ability of the SS characters were even used when Ichigo's group invaded. They did just enough to try and take them down and in many cases had many things to handle bigger threats like Arrancar. Take into account the personality and reserved nature of many characters and you know that most of them didn't really get any stronger, they merely just didn't show everything. As we get closer to the end, we'll know what they all are for the most part. Maybe some will throw in a bit of preparation or do have something new that they drew up between SS and now, but for the most part it's "new" because it was formerly "unknown".

Daz

But still, everything aside, someone like Kenpachi DID show everything. Go back to his fight with Ichigo, and don't tell me the crazed bastard we all love wasn't giving it all he got, no eyepath and everything. And Kenpachi doesn't even have a moveset, so it wasn't like "oh, I just never got the chance to use THAT move in the fight."
And after the fight Ichigo gets bankai, he gets hollow mask, and his strenght increases from being punted all over the place by Grimmjow to beating him (The last strenght jump happened in a day, no less).

And then out of the blue comes Kenpachi, with no shikai, no bankai, no new anything (except holding his swords in goddamn two hands) and fights an espada of higher rank than Grimmjow…
and beats him.

For this to make any sense, Kenpachi had to train 10 times as hard as mr. powerup freak Ichigo, which considering that Ichigo does nothing BUT train outside of his powerup inducing fights, is absurd. After all, Ichigo is known and feared solely for his extremely fast growth, surpassing shinigami with centuries of experience and training in a matter of days.
People like Buykuya and Kenpachi suddenly keeping up with Ichigo takes away the only unique thing about him, makes no sense considering their earlier pace of training, and can only be attributed to Kubo out of his ass deciding "This is how strong they are now."

I mean retcons his plot time and time again, why should the power levels be any different.

GEPPETTOSMONSTER

@Tokoro:

It has been released in the US if you want to read it legally. Otherwise, I put the original Japanese version on MH if you want to look it over.

I'll look it over, I have no problem looking at a whole entire series in RAW format. I did it to both Bobobo and RAVE.

Tokoro Ataru

@The:

But still, everything aside, someone like Kenpachi DID show everything. Go back to his fight with Ichigo, and don't tell me the crazed bastard we all love wasn't giving it all he got, no eyepath and everything. And Kenpachi doesn't even have a moveset, so it wasn't like "oh, I just never got the chance to use THAT move in the fight."
And after the fight Ichigo gets bankai, he gets hollow mask, and his strenght increases from being punted all over the place by Grimmjow to beating him (The last strenght jump happened in a day, no less).

And then out of the blue comes Kenpachi, with no shikai, no bankai, no new anything (except holding his swords in goddamn two hands) and fights an espada of higher rank than Grimmjow…
and beats him.

For this to make any sense, Kenpachi had to train 10 times as hard as mr. powerup freak Ichigo, which considering that Ichigo does nothing BUT train outside of his powerup inducing fights, is absurd. After all, Ichigo is known and feared solely for his extremely fast growth, surpassing shinigami with centuries of experience and training in a matter of days.
People like Buykuya and Kenpachi suddenly keeping up with Ichigo takes away the only unique thing about him, makes no sense considering their earlier pace of training, and can only be attributed to Kubo out of his ass deciding "This is how strong they are now."

I mean retcons his plot time and time again, why should the power levels be any different.

Well for one thing aside from training, remember Kenpachi said that he never really wanted to even use Kendo. He likes fighting with as many handicaps as possible to make it a fight. So to avoid using it until he pretty much was at wits end for Nnoitora was as appropriate for him as a Shikai or Bankai reveal for another character.

Daz

I know it fits his character perfectly. But the point is that following his fight with Kenpachi, which he won, Ichigo had two consecutive Speed + Power upgrades, as well as lots of traning and battle-induced power increases.
All things that should have made him be able to brush Kenpachi aside with ease should they fight again.
But appearantly, if Kenpachi had decided to hold his sword in two hands back in SS, he could have swatted an Ichigo 10 times stronger than the one that beat him.

Kenpachis absurdly huge increase in power makes no sense, especially considering how he forced Nnoitora to release in his pre-kendo state, with Ichigo needing to go Vizard to do the same with Grimmjaw.

It's like if Tenshinhan suddenly was equal to Goku again, even though the latter aquired Super sayajin 1 and 2 transformations, just because they had trained for the same amount of time since they were once near equals.

HaxeyeMihawk

Nnoitra logically was probably a lot weaker than Grimmjow because he was originally #8 and iirc, Aizen made him #5 due to his cunning (and he only beat a half dead Ichigo and Grimmjow), so Kenpachi beating him with his two hand crap wasn't "ZOMG!" albeit the two hand thing was a bit dumb. People need to understand that w/e is happening with Ichigo's inability to use his mask has weakened him vs Yammy, but Ichigo w/ mask is likely still stronger than Byakuya and Kenpachi, it'll likely take their full combined effort to beat Yammy and that's assuming they're able to, I wouldn't totally rule Unohana out or even Ichigonator from appearing (though I expect Ichigonator to reappear in FKT in front of the other Vaizards).

Tokoro Ataru

@The:

I know it fits his character perfectly. But the point is that following his fight with Kenpachi, which he won, Ichigo had two consecutive Speed + Power upgrades, as well as lots of traning and battle-induced power increases.
All things that should have made him be able to brush Kenpachi aside with ease should they fight again.
But appearantly, if Kenpachi had decided to hold his sword in two hands back in SS, he could have swatted an Ichigo 10 times stronger than the one that beat him.

Kenpachis absurdly huge increase in power makes no sense, especially considering how he forced Nnoitora to release in his pre-kendo state, with Ichigo needing to go Vizard to do the same with Grimmjaw.

It's like if Tenshinhan suddenly was equal to Goku again, even though the latter aquired Super sayajin 1 and 2 transformations, just because they had trained for the same amount of time since they were once near equals.

But this is the same Kenpachi who also was able to crush Tousen and his Bankai and was literally fighting Komamura's Bankai before Aizen pulled his stunt. Not to mention by the time Kenpachi finally took his eyepatch in his Ichigo fight, he was almost out of power himself and was just letting it all out for one attack. As I see it now, Kenpachi wasn't fighting with everything he had when he fought Ichigo the first time (remember, the early part was merely Ichigo trying to figure out how to cut him) and didn't use everything like he did against Tousen. (or even more than that against Nnoitora, whom he had the eyepatch ripped off earlier than he did against Ichigo and was forced to resort to kendo)

GEPPETTOSMONSTER

wait…are people calling kenpachi weak?

maxterdexter

Yes, this is the result of trying to use logic in bleach.. it is madness

GEPPETTOSMONSTER

@maxterdexter:

Yes, this is the result of trying to use logic in bleach.. it is madness

indeed

just got done watching the new episode, f-ing awesome! Especially the fight between Houzukimaru (sp?) vs. Ikakku.

The shinigami illustrated book at the end (after the clips of the next episode) were funny as hell seeing kujaku talking about ikkaku on how good he would look if he became more stylised

Hinscher

well looked at raw and one question. How come ichigo sucks so bad at cutting shit. He always seems to barely hurt anyone or not at all, then the captains come and just slice off limbs or cut them like nothing.

wtf ichigo, sharpen your damn blade

GaaraofTheDesert

Matsumoto's boobs made my day.

!