Some WB pirates surrounded him right after Luffy smacked him. Seeing how a rookie on shanks crew already has a higher bounty than croc had, we can assume that they managed to beat him: croc is now captured by the WB pirates and out of the game for a while.
that's a pretty stupid conclusion. Bounties =/= power level scouters. And it's ridiculous to think Crocodile would be captured just like that. Unless random on WBs ship 'have haki'.
Why everybody asumes that Dragon is a good person?
As all revolutionaries, he belives in his own ideals at all costs, he was first talked about in the King's meeting as a dangerous individual to peaceful countries.
What is the rate, for each Wapol that falls, how many Cobra does also?
I'm just saying just because they face a greater evil, they not necesarily are good, I'm guessing that Dragon will be the end boss of a new world arc of the strawhats going to a WG member island and ending defending it from the Revolutionaries.
the WG is established to be an overall evil organisation (tenryuubito, slavery, tequila wolf, ohara attacks, keeping history outlawed). Dragon's group fight off that stuff, which makes them awesome.
the WG is established to be an overall evil organisation (tenryuubito, slavery, tequila wolf, ohara attacks, keeping history outlawed). Dragon's group fight off that stuff, which makes them awesome.
You know who fighted the Nazis? The sovietic rusia
Going to be interesting how from now on everywhere Luffy goes people will point out him being Dragon's son.
Another Note Marco Don't you dare let that boy die. Roger that. Marco and Whitebeard are just beyond awesome!
Prediction for next chapter
Luffy turns chibi mode after using gear 3
A shit load of Marines are about to attack him
Marco is about to make a move to attack them
Before he can Hancock owns them all and is standing in front of chibi Luffy
Then they show her face and she is just overwhelmed by how cute he is
and decides she will help the man she loves save his brother.
Who? 16 characters of facepalm
URSS? What is wrong? Sovietic Union? Stalin? Kremling? Russia + manycountrieswhoendin-Tan except afganistan and pakistan + others that I don't remember?
@$abZ:
I don't know about Kuma fooling Sengoku. Whitebeard has spoken on how Sengoku isn't easy to get the better of. We've seen the real Kuma fire a laser before against Zoro, so the Ursus Shock he used in the war does hold significance. Obviously I could be wrong, but I don't see how you can be so confident that a Pacifista has joined the battle.
I'm not confident about anything. I said we don't know either way. My main point of that post is that there is absolutely no relevant evidence pointing towards Pacifista or real Kuma. All that has been brought up is logical nonsense.
Bible or no Bible: Irrelevant. Kuma has been shown without it so it's no indication that he's a Pacifista.
Ursus Shock: Irrelevant. I am aware that only the real Kuma can Ursa Shock, but he could have done it earlier and this be a Pacifista, neither excludes the other. I will clarify again, the Kuma that Ursa Shocked Oars IS the original, but this one could be another one, as no evidence ties the original Kuma to this one. If anyone can prove through evidence, which they can't because they are exactly the same and neither has a battle scar to identify themselves with, that this Kuma is the same one that did Ursus Shock, then by all means show me. Until then, we don't know.
Multiple Beams exploding: Irrelevant. We don't know the amount of time the panel covers or whether or not he fired them erratically. Anyone could also argue that becuase he's shooting three lazorz simultaneously, he is actually a pacifista, as this would require that he use his mouth and both hands, but that would be bullshit as well, becuase we don't know what it is simultaneous in the manga panel format.
In conclusion, we don't know if he is or isn't the real Kuma from what we know now. If you think it is either at this point, it's personal preference, based on personal bs.
UsoppSpell!
On the eve of spoilerificaiton, you will wait until you remember it's break week.
@Fire Fist:
Like when he told us that Sanji went to open the GoJ?
well he did mention sanji was gone
Ursus Shock: Irrelevant. I am aware that only the real Kuma can Ursa Shock, but he could have done it earlier and this be a Pacifista, neither excludes the other. I will clarify again, the Kuma that Ursa Shocked Oars IS the original, but this one could be another one, as no evidence ties the original Kuma to this one. If anyone can prove through evidence, which they can't because they are exactly the same and neither has a battle scar to identify themselves with, that this Kuma is the same one that did Ursus Shock, then by all means show me. Until then, we don't know.
Well we've seen proof that the real Kuma has been in the battle, but we haven't seen any proof that a pacifista has. There's no evidence of a switch, it's a mere theory, there's no base.
@$abZ:
Well we've seen proof that the real Kuma has been in the battle, but we haven't seen any proof that a pacifista has. There's no evidence of a switch, it's a mere theory, there's no base.
MY ORIGINAL POINT
UsoppSpell!
On the eve of spoilerificaiton, you will wait until you remember it's break week.
Hancock seeing chibi luffy will make her go crazy bonkers for him
MY ORIGINAL POINT
So where the fuck have these pacifista theories come from? You'd be better off saying nothing at all.
Did you miss the entire scene with Marco proclaiming they won't let anybody who hurts one of their friends stay alive? They aren't going to just pick up and leave once they've freed Ace. It will only be time to avenge all those who fell while saving Ace with Ace alongside them. The Government also wouldn't let the strongest man in the world just leave when he's literally on their doorstep. Wars just don't end that abruptly, Garp reinforced that point in ID. Fighting won't end till one or both sides are decimated.
This PKS, and don't laugh or i'll have my boys from Pelham and Prospect ave go after you 
the WG is established to be an overall evil organisation (tenryuubito, slavery, tequila wolf, ohara attacks, keeping history outlawed). Dragon's group fight off that stuff, which makes them awesome.
At Sabaody, Rayleigh said that Roger's crew was "a little quick to find the Lost History", or something along those lines. What if whatever happened during the Blank Century should've been covered up, and what Dragon wants to bring to the world is worse than the World Government?
All we know is what Dragon does; incite revolution. We don't know why.
I loved Hancock's reaction to the Dragon thing. She is such a cutie :)
@$abZ:
So where the fuck have these pacifista theories come from? You'd be better off saying nothing at all.
What the hell are you talking about man? I suggest you reread my posts cause I never theorized anything. The only thing I ever did was say that other's theories were baseless. Hardly a theory in itself, considering that it's a fact.
I ain't arguing, but I already posted unnescessarily once for clarification, and I'm not gonna do it again.
UsoppSpell!
On the eve of spoilerificaiton, you will wait until you remember it's break week.
Before he can Hancock owns them all and is standing in front of chibi Luffy
Then they show her face and she is just overwhelmed by how cute he is
and decides she will help the man she loves save his brother.
This would condemn Amazon Lilly, but I think Luffy will put the island under his protection, the way WB did for Fishmen Island.
What the hell are you talking about man? I suggest you reread my posts cause I never theorized anything. The only thing I ever did was say that other's theories were baseless. Hardly a theory in itself, considering that it's a fact.
I ain't arguing, but I already posted unnescessarily once for clarification, and I'm not gonna do it again.
I never said you theorized that a pacifista had joined the war.
The pacifista theory has no base. It being Kuma is more likely to me, just because we've had no indication of a switch and we've seen an Ursus Shock from Kuma already. A switch under the nose of Sengoku is just weird to me.
Hina Fail. Hina Smash. Also, white beard loves luffy at this point.
Great chapter. Looks like the Shichibukai know all about each other powers and weaknesses. You had Moria saying he knew about Kuma's power from TB and here you have Jinbei knowing saltwater purifies Moria's zombies.
As for the zombies, they're people who died during this war. If they were TB zombies they wouldn't have marine uniforms on and we be numbered. The reason why they're bandaged, coming out from underground, and stitched up is most likely a design choice by Oda since it makes it easier to tell they're zombies and to tell them apart from alive people. Most likely the way Moria is animating them is by using his own shadow. Since the zombies are moving around in broad daylight. The method he is using now has to be something entirely different than from what he used at TB.
Now I am glad you have your own opinion mr. Phoenix Zoan but at the same time I believe your opinion is dead wrong and based on shaking grounds.
1. of all It takes quite a while to make a zobmbie dude at least a lot more than this war has been going on.
2. You need dr. Hockback down there to be doing that stuff and I highly doubt he is moving left and right in the middle of battlefield, is able to implant a shadow so quickly and hide the orginal user away from the sun. You do know they are fighting in the day light right?
3. The original users need to be alive and Moria needs to remove their shadows with his fancy scissors again Moria didnt have time for that
4. Your only half good argment IMO is that uniform set…
Now let me counter it...
They are old zombies probably from Thriller bark who just got the uniforms...
Sorry but the number of times this imo way off idea was presented made me reply
I've been meaning to ask but didn't Hogback and Absalom ditch TB and Moria after Moria's defeat? And Maybe Moria is fracturing his own shadow (like he does for brickbats) then using the separate pieces to control corpses? Doesn't Moria pretty much state that he's using the bodies from the battlefield?
I've been meaning to ask but didn't Hogback and Absalom ditch TB and Moria after Moria's defeat? And Maybe Moria is fracturing his own shadow (like he does for brickbats) then using the separate pieces to control corpses? Doesn't Moria pretty much state that he's using the bodies from the battlefield?
I agree with this guy.
@$abZ:
I never said you theorized that a pacifista had joined the war.
The pacifista theory has no base. It being Kuma is more likely to me, just because we've had no indication of a switch and we've seen an Ursus Shock from Kuma already. A switch under the nose of Sengoku is just weird to me.
It has just as much as any other, which is none. There are equal possibilities of it being a Pacifista than Kuma. Sengoku could be dispatching Pacifistas and no one would be the wiser as long as they don't spot 2 Kumas in the same place. It increases their firepower greatly, so why wouldn't they do it if it offers them the possibility of increased coverage? I don't think it's improbable at all.
I don't really know what to think at this point. Obviously the easy choice is that it's the Real Kuma, but it could go either way.
I've been meaning to ask but didn't Hogback and Absalom ditch TB and Moria after Moria's defeat?
No, they all left together, minus Perona, and Absalom even got Moria out of the battlefield himself.
I've been meaning to ask but didn't Hogback and Absalom ditch TB and Moria after Moria's defeat?
Just Thriller Bark.
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-486/page003.html
Edit: Sir Crocodile beat me.
Moria's comment still confuses me though.. since the zombies he brings from the ground are definitely Marine zombies yet they're all zombified with their parts and such. Unless Hogback was fucking running around there creating zombies really fast, I don't see how Moria could be telling the truth… unless he's talking about like, in the future he'll be able to make more zombies. But the context of the statement seems to imply "right now." Can anyone explain?
He's creating zombies from the people who die from the war. The reason why they look like that is a design choice from Oda to make them look different and easier to tell apart from the alive people. Only question though is how is he activating the zombies. Is he using his own shadow, somehow he's actively stealing shadows in broad daylight without the original body burning or does he have a secret stash of stolen shadows he hid before the war.
As for Hogback and Absalom being there. Yeah they did leave TB together with Moria but I don't think he brought them with him to MHQ. If they were there I would think Oda would've already shown them being there.
Hogback and Moria must have left over zombies that didn't have shadows. Remember Jigoro and Dogpen?
Hogback and Moria must have left over zombies that didn't have shadows. Remember Jigoro and Dogpen?
Nah it showed the boat as they were leaving TB. Only the 3 of them left TB. They didn't take no zombies with them. Plus the zombies at MHQ don't have any numbers on them so they aren't TB zombies.
@$abZ:
I never said you theorized that a pacifista had joined the war.
The pacifista theory has no base. It being Kuma is more likely to me, just because we've had no indication of a switch and we've seen an Ursus Shock from Kuma already. A switch under the nose of Sengoku is just weird to me.
Don't cry it's a manga, please:ninja:
At Sabaody, Rayleigh said that Roger's crew was "a little quick to find the Lost History", or something along those lines. What if whatever happened during the Blank Century should've been covered up, and what Dragon wants to bring to the world is worse than the World Government?
All we know is what Dragon does; incite revolution. We don't know why.
It seems more fitting that Dragon will bring a better world than what the WG is providing. Just like Naruto is supposed to change the ninja world.
He's creating zombies from the people who die from the war. The reason why they look like that is a design choice from Oda to make them look different and easier to tell apart from the alive people. Only question though is how is he activating the zombies. Is he using his own shadow, somehow he's actively stealing shadows in broad daylight without the original body burning or does he have a secret stash of stolen shadows he hid before the war.
As for Hogback and Absalom being there. Yeah they did leave TB together with Moria but I don't think he brought them with him to MHQ. If they were there I would think Oda would've already shown them being there.
From all the discussion thus far, it seems that the most logicol explanation would be as follows for Moria being able to animate fallen Marines in daylight. He requires an individual soul for each zombie… Or like someone else said perhaps he is seperating his own shadow i.e. brickbat and controlling them in that way. However, I doubt that would work and isn't all that logicol, being that the zombies retain a small amount of their prior personality and traits just after re-animation. So are we to assume that all these zombies are a bunch of mini Moria's running around?
What seems most likely is that, in some way Moria brought a collection of individual shadows with him and is using those to animate the fallen marines. However since what he said seemed to follow along the lines of 'the more die the bigger my zombie army gets', it questions whether he does have an indefinite supply of souls on his person, unless of course he is bluffing which is easily plausible.
As for the theory of Hogback and Abasalom running around... I really cannot imagine that scenario at all, amidst all the chaos those two darting around is pretty laughable.
Another thought on the possibility of Moria using his own shadow to animate the dead marines, if this were the case then he could have an indefinite amount of troops at his disposal as he said. However when Jinbei purified the first wave their souls didn't seem to be flowing back in any direction towards him.
Also, if Moria is actually using his own shadow to animate the corpses then doesn't that leave him almost completely vulnerable to any normal attacks? Well for sense's sake let's say that he keeps a portion of shadow on his person at all times, however his devil fruit abilities would be severely weakened and I'm not sure he would risk such a thing in such a dangerous event as this.
DoFlamingo mentioned Ivankov by name. Therefore, he must be from the Kamabakka kingdom. Everything makes sense now!
absalom is there all right, he just became invisible and seeing how the fight turns out he decided not to appear at all :)
moria's zombies also puzzles me, i guess we'll just have to wait for oda to explain it after all
Did you miss the entire scene with Marco proclaiming they won't let anybody who hurts one of their friends stay alive? They aren't going to just pick up and leave once they've freed Ace. It will only be time to avenge all those who fell while saving Ace with Ace alongside them. The Government also wouldn't let the strongest man in the world just leave when he's literally on their doorstep. Wars just don't end that abruptly, Garp reinforced that point in ID. Fighting won't end till one or both sides are decimated.
Granted.
If the Marines, at the end of this war, have full force then I would believe they will make an attempt at WB's life but if they lose admirals and shichibukai do you think they are still going to try to take down WB? I would think they would make there best "attempt" to retreat to avoid even more casualties.
If WB, at the end of this war, has enough forces to take down the remaining Marine forces, then I believe that he will attempt to do so.
This is all based on casualties of the war.
Also keep in mind that the WHOLE WG is NOT at this War, just very high officials and key players, even if they were all destroyed, it would not necessarily mean the complete end of the WG or Marines, just a BIG BIG BIG setback that, if they don't have any type of backup or recovery, could quickly result in its complete demise.
What I am trying to say and warn is not to underestimate the WG or the Marines, especially since WB already identified Sengoku as a great strategist, it would be foolish to believe that the WG went "all-in" for this execution, they must have a backup plan (MAYBE replacements) or something because, like I mentioned before, they would be foolish and ignorant not to have a plan for the different outcomes of this war whether that be:
WB saving Ace and commencing a full fledged attack which causes the loss of some or all admirals, shichibukai, marine forces.
WB losing, Ace being executed.
And many more different type of outcomes foundational to whats mentioned above but with different variables (i.e. Ace being saved, WB still dying.)
If you were in the WG position, wouldn't you try your best to consider every possible outcome and plan to each of them accordingly? Isn't that how most Governments in the world work today, especially when it comes to a war?
Now I could possibly be seriously overestimating the WG and giving them too much credit but for some reason, I do not see the complete downfall of the WG at this time.
DoFlamingo mentioned Ivankov by name. Therefore, he must be from the Kamabakka kingdom. Everything makes sense now!
There we go, some quality theories.
@Fiasco.:
There we go, some quality theories.
are you serious
maybe sanji will come back like flamingo
are you serious
maybe sanji will come back like flamingo
With a nice harem of okama in tow
Keep saying Lord Ivankov over and over to yourself, it's hilarious.
Zombie's apareance is SBS material.
Kuma's or pacifista's will be revealed once he talks.
Garp is not the hyena Zoan.
The power level in one piece aren't clearly defined by tiers.
Discuss something interesting, please!!
I don't know if this has been said already, since there are already 20 pages on this thread, but does anyone else feel like there is a possibility, the Kuma is actually an inside man for Dragon and the revolutionaries? Like a sleeper agent?
I don't know if this has been said already, since there are already 20 pages on this thread, but does anyone else feel like there is a possibility, the Kuma is actually an inside man for Dragon and the revolutionaries? Like a sleeper agent?
You're the first one to come up with that.
From all the discussion thus far, it seems that the most logicol explanation would be as follows for Moria being able to animate fallen Marines in daylight. He requires an individual soul for each zombie… Or like someone else said perhaps he is seperating his own shadow i.e. brickbat and controlling them in that way. However, I doubt that would work and isn't all that logicol, being that the zombies retain a small amount of their prior personality and traits just after re-animation. So are we to assume that all these zombies are a bunch of mini Moria's running around?
What seems most likely is that, in some way Moria brought a collection of individual shadows with him and is using those to animate the fallen marines. However since what he said seemed to follow along the lines of 'the more die the bigger my zombie army gets', it questions whether he does have an indefinite supply of souls on his person, unless of course he is bluffing which is easily plausible.
As for the theory of Hogback and Abasalom running around... I really cannot imagine that scenario at all, amidst all the chaos those two darting around is pretty laughable.
Another thought on the possibility of Moria using his own shadow to animate the dead marines, if this were the case then he could have an indefinite amount of troops at his disposal as he said. However when Jinbei purified the first wave their souls didn't seem to be flowing back in any direction towards him.
Also, if Moria is actually using his own shadow to animate the corpses then doesn't that leave him almost completely vulnerable to any normal attacks? Well for sense's sake let's say that he keeps a portion of shadow on his person at all times, however his devil fruit abilities would be severely weakened and I'm not sure he would risk such a thing in such a dangerous event as this.
I wouldn't put it past him to sit back the whole time and use his shadow to animate the zombies. As you said, we didn't see any shadows fly out from zombies when Jimbei purified them.
As for the zombies themselves, sure, maybe Oda gives them stitches and such so they're easily recognizable. But that doesn't sit well with me because in this: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/558/08-09/ picture, there is definitely a part-bear zombie and a half-horse zombie with four arms. Which is why I sarcastically said the Hogback comment, because it just doesn't make sense.
see with the zombies could it be that moria just using his fruit powers
and controlling the zombies orginal shadows
of course they aren't as strong as combo shadows but still can be puppeteered by him?
just a suggestion
I don't know if this has been said already, since there are already 20 pages on this thread, but does anyone else feel like there is a possibility, the Kuma is actually an inside man for Dragon and the revolutionaries? Like a sleeper agent?
Try looking in the Shichibukai thread.
I wouldn't put it past him to sit back the whole time and use his shadow to animate the zombies. As you said, we didn't see any shadows fly out from zombies when Jimbei purified them.
As for the zombies themselves, sure, maybe Oda gives them stitches and such so they're easily recognizable. But that doesn't sit well with me because in this: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/558/08-09/ picture, there is definitely a part-bear zombie and a half-horse zombie with four arms. Which is why I sarcastically said the Hogback comment, because it just doesn't make sense.
Ah I think you misread, or I miswrote part of that discussion, as shadows did emerge from the zombies once purified a seen here
!
Yet not appearing to return to Moria
As for the half-horse with four arms and half-bear zombies, somewhere like four chapters back I think there was a back shot of a marine whom looked like a spider-zoan type - large thorax and six arms
!
Bare in mind this was before Moria's re-animation.
So unless we're asuming that Oda simply didn't add the beastiality to the zombies just for flavour, then I think the likelihood of them being zoan devil fruit users shouldn't be discounted.
!
Originally Posted by Sables
From all the discussion thus far, it seems that the most logicol explanation would be as follows for Moria being able to animate fallen Marines in daylight. He requires an individual soul for each zombie… Or like someone else said perhaps he is seperating his own shadow i.e. brickbat and controlling them in that way. However, I doubt that would work and isn't all that logicol, being that the zombies retain a small amount of their prior personality and traits just after re-animation. So are we to assume that all these zombies are a bunch of mini Moria's running around?What seems most likely is that, in some way Moria brought a collection of individual shadows with him and is using those to animate the fallen marines. However since what he said seemed to follow along the lines of 'the more die the bigger my zombie army gets', it questions whether he does have an indefinite supply of souls on his person, unless of course he is bluffing which is easily plausible.
As for the theory of Hogback and Abasalom running around… I really cannot imagine that scenario at all, amidst all the chaos those two darting around is pretty laughable.
Another thought on the possibility of Moria using his own shadow to animate the dead marines, if this were the case then he could have an indefinite amount of troops at his disposal as he said. However when Jinbei purified the first wave their souls didn't seem to be flowing back in any direction towards him.
Also, if Moria is actually using his own shadow to animate the corpses then doesn't that leave him almost completely vulnerable to any normal attacks? Well for sense's sake let's say that he keeps a portion of shadow on his person at all times, however his devil fruit abilities would be severely weakened and I'm not sure he would risk such a thing in such a dangerous event as this.
Well when Moria uses brick bats or doppelman once the move is finished it dispates. It doesn't return back to Moria's body. So if it is Moria's shadow it'll disappear a little while after it leaves the zombies bodies.
If it's somebody else shadows it'll fly to the original owners body and they'll crawl under whatever rock it is Moria stashed them under. Considering Oda didn't show anybody coming back to life I'm leaning with against him having stashed shadowed with original bodies somewhere idea.
With the argument that zombies have a slight period where they don't completely obey their master depending on the shadows strength. That rule wouldn't apply since I would think any zombie that has Moria's shadow would instantly fall under his command since his shadow is manipulating them. Moria probably prefers using other shadows though since it doesn't split his powers and isn't as strong as using other people's shadow. Hence why he hasn't brought Oars Jr. back to life yet but is waiting to capture Luffy's shadow first.
He's not really vulnerable. If he is splitting his shadows then he may be weaker but he is still letting the zombies doing the blunt of the attack. So he's leaving the attacking to them while he sits backs and watches. He's only really in danger if he was to get attacked by someone else while the zombies are bumrushing another person.
Speaking of zombies does anyone else think moria is a zombie or something i just kinda wondered it
Woops! Yeah, I missed those shadows. Go me.
But as for the fact that it has anything to do with devil-fruits.. I'm sorry. It just doesn't seem plausible. Besides Brook, it seems that devil fruit users lose their devil fruits in death. Those zombies bare the resemblance to the kind of mixed-up looking zombies on Thriller Bark, so I can't buy that it's related to some power they have.
And just to add: That spider guy is likely a spider-zoan, or some type of spider-race on the Grand line. I know you weren't saying he was a zombie, but I wanted to clarify in case someone brings tries to say I'm implying otherwise.
