Shichibukai strength

UsoppSpell

I actually have a theory about Moria's power using Shadow Revolution.
Maybe if he wasn't so mad, do you think he could use Shadow Revolution to put Odz in a normal shape again?
I mean, if he can stretch them and turns him in a ball, why not put him in a normal form?

Fuck, Moria would be uber powerful then.

What do you mean with normal shape? I don't quite understand. Do you mean as in regular normal sized person Oars? Because that would probably not make him stronger.

However, I do believe that Shadow Revolution is the most ridiculous power. If he were better with it, he should be able to teleport, kami-e, enlarge or shrink when needed and who knows what else in a battle situation.

onemoment

@Refii:

You don't need to cut anything to be the worlds strongest swordsman. You need to be able to defeat every other opponent with a sword, therefore only one slash is required to "cut" the opponent after you have defeated him with your sword.

Well, that's be pretty lame if it were true. This whole line of thinking came about when Zoro lost against an opponent with a sword after promising never to lose again. From that the idea came that Mihawk can apparently be the strongest swordsman yet being a puss against everyone else is okay. That idea just doesn't mesh with a "world's strongest title to me."

Cutting diamonds may not be important, but there's no reason to assume he can or can't at this point of the story. For the shichibukai who have yet to be defeated in a fight, their strengths are potentially limitless.* It actually seems odd to me it see someone talk about what shichibukai can't do, when these are the types of guys that Oda can just randomly create insanely powerful abilities for, like how he fleshed out the logia power with Croc (though technically Smoker was the first one).

*Until too many people getting annoying about it.

Nuzzie

@Warfare:

I belive Inazuma has to have a limit, until now we have seen him cut just rock, at this point is still unknown if he can cut steel or diamond…His fighting style seems more like manipulating stuff than cutting people anyway

!

Here he effortlessly cuts through the steel (or at least iron) chains

Captaingod

@Nuzzie:

! http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4458/11377117.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9850/97630433.jpg

Here he effortlessly cuts through the steel (or at least iron) chains

To me it looks as if the chains aren't being cut at all.

Nuzzie

really…

Jadosra

@UsoppSpell:

What do you mean with normal shape? I don't quite understand. Do you mean as in regular normal sized person Oars? Because that would probably not make him stronger.

However, I do believe that Shadow Revolution is the most ridiculous power. If he were better with it, he should be able to teleport, kami-e, enlarge or shrink when needed and who knows what else in a battle situation.

What I am saying is that after Luffy breaking Oz's spine, if Moria was conscious or he woke up and wasn't insane, do you think he could change Oar's shape so that he would be a man with a normal spine?
Thus, making all the hard work of the SH's useless? AGAIN?

Also:

Inazuma is one of the strongest Revolutionaries, it doesn't surprise me that he can cut Diamond and whatever the hell he wants.

And altough I hate Mihawk fanboys like HaxeyeMihawk as much as you do, I think he's right in that particular argument, tbh.

A 36 Pound Cannon can't cut Steel, and Shishi Sonson can, so why can't the same be applied to Mihawk?

Zik

@Jadosra:

What I am saying is that after Luffy breaking Oz's spine, if Moria was conscious or he woke up and wasn't insane, do you think he could change Oar's shape so that he would be a man with a normal spine?
Thus, making all the hard work of the SH's useless? AGAIN?

He most likely could have. If his shadow was able to manipulate Oz in to stretching his arm then he could've manipulated his spine to be straight so that he could stand.

Hell if he wanted to he could've turned Oz back in to a ball and bounced around until the sun rises.

Oda had to make Moria lose so he forced the whole enraged personality in to play hoping fans would've ignored some other things Moria could've done to keep fighting(Like not going to a 1000 shadows right away lol).

Jadosra

Fuck yeah, Moria is even more overpowered than I thought

HaxeyeMihawk

@Jadosra:

What I am saying is that after Luffy breaking Oz's spine, if Moria was conscious or he woke up and wasn't insane, do you think he could change Oar's shape so that he would be a man with a normal spine?
Thus, making all the hard work of the SH's useless? AGAIN?

Also:

Inazuma is one of the strongest Revolutionaries, it doesn't surprise me that he can cut Diamond and whatever the hell he wants.

And altough I hate Mihawk fanboys like HaxeyeMihawk as much as you do, I think he's right in that particular argument, tbh.

A 36 Pound Cannon can't cut Steel, and Shishi Sonson can, so why can't the same be applied to Mihawk?

I laugh hard everytime you call me a Mihawk fanboy (which I'm not) funny thing is that I've defended Luffy way more (mostly against you and your "logic" cough) and I only defended Mihawk once when the numbnuts were saying "Mihawk can't cut diamond" based off a one arm, unnamed swordslash, as if he just lost a 1v1 against Joz.

True

@HaxeyeMihawk:

I laugh hard everytime you call me a Mihawk fanboy (which I'm not) funny thing is that I've defended Luffy way more (mostly against you and your "logic" cough) and I only defended Mihawk once when the numbnuts were saying "Mihawk can't cut diamond" based off a one arm, unnamed swordslash, as if he just lost a 1v1 against Joz.

What are you crazy? After that pitiful performance, Mihawk was reduced to the level of Johnny in terms of swordsmanship. Can't cut diamond with a standard attack. He is garbage.

Jadosra

I laugh hard everytime you call me a Blackbeard fanboy "which I'm not", funny thing is that I defended Crocodile way more (mostly against you and your stupidity) and I never defended Blackbeard in an argument.

Ignore my avatar and signature (Its a shame I don't have a lameass name to follow the character I'M NOT A FANBOY OF).

One of these days, I'l get banned for flaming, and then I'l blame it on your retardation, my friend.

Fiasco.

@Jadosra:

I laugh hard everytime you call me a Blackbeard fanboy "which I'm not", funny thing is that I defended Crocodile way more (mostly against you and your stupidity) and I never defended Blackbeard in an argument.

Ignore my avatar and signature (Its a shame I don't have a lameass name to follow the character I'M NOT A FANBOY OF).

One of these days, I'l get banned for flaming, and then I'l blame it on your retardation, my friend.

But your signature says…

Jadosra

What? What you on about, Fiasco?
I'm obviously not a Blackbeard fanboy… its like... DUUUUH...

HaxeyeMihawk

@True:

What are you crazy? After that pitiful performance, Mihawk was reduced to the level of Johnny in terms of swordsmanship. Can't cut diamond with a standard attack. He is garbage.

Silly me, I forgot .

@Jadosra:

I laugh hard everytime you call me a Blackbeard fanboy "which I'm not", funny thing is that I defended Crocodile way more (mostly against you and your stupidity) and I never defended Blackbeard in an argument.

Ignore my avatar and signature (Its a shame I don't have a lameass name to follow the character I'M NOT A FANBOY OF).

One of these days, I'l get banned for flaming, and then I'l blame it on your retardation, my friend.

Lol and I said that after you called me a Mihawk fanboy because of my username & avy, then I said then you're avy means your a BB fanboy. But nice try. And didn't you admit to being somewhat of a BB fanboy? Pretty sure you did. And your sig lol.

Jadosra

@HaxeyeMihawk:

Lol and I said that after you called me a Mihawk fanboy because of my username & avy, then I said then you're avy means your a BB fanboy. But nice try. And didn't you admit to being somewhat of a BB fanboy? Pretty sure you did.

Ladies and gentleman, I will quote this post and put it on a golden frame because, from now on, anything he will possibly say won't be as retarded as this.

IrishLuigi

undead_assault

@Nuzzie:

really…

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5273/inazumachains.jpg

hmmm, thanks for te picture….
this is what I mean that Inazuma can cut everything like they were papers and treat it like they were paper...

So far, there is no people mutilated by sword (as far as I remember) except Buggy but he is out of question...so I'm sure Inazuma can cut people too but that will be too cruel...except te people didnt die after being cut (i.e. Logia)

Mihawk for sure can cut through original body of logia user like Rayleigh, but he seems cant hurt Jozu so far...

Fiasco.

@IrishLuigi:

http://afrocityblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/irony.jpg

This funny as hell.

HaxeyeMihawk

@Jadosra:

Ladies and gentleman, I will quote this post and put it on a golden frame because, from now on, anything he will possibly say won't be as retarded as this.

My bad I'm so used to page downing your tl;dr posts that I never took note of your sig(atleast not till after I posted that). Meh, still not as stupid as you thinking Croc>Luffy even after Oda basically tells the reader that Luffy has surpassed him.

Jadosra

"Yeah, I'm so used to page down your posts that I answered in a retarded way based on what you wrote, which would be impossible if I didn't read the post

Silly me"

Serious question without any mean-ness behind it.

How old are you?

Jadosra

Sorry for the double post, but I really do believe this needs to be quoted again

@HaxeyeMihawk:

Lol and I said that after you called me a Mihawk fanboy because of my username & avy, then I said then you're avy means your a BB fanboy. But nice try. And didn't you admit to being somewhat of a BB fanboy? Pretty sure you did.

What a fucking lol

IrishLuigi

Jadosra, you're burning the joke out…:unsure:

Urouge

Does that make me an Urouge fanboy? :ermm:

HaxeyeMihawk

@Jadosra:

"Yeah, I'm so used to page down your posts that I answered in a retarded way based on what you wrote, which would be impossible if I didn't read the post

Silly me"

Serious question without any mean-ness behind it.

How old are you?

"Yeah I repeat the same shit everytime in 5000 words even after numerous people tell me I'm mistaken, I even know that people aren't reading my walls of repetitive text yet I keep posting it anyway…" Anyway, you still don't get that Oda didn't intend for the reader to think that Croc>Luffy at the end of round 3 nor was he implying that Croc went easy on Luffy. In fact not only was it implied that Luffy surpassed Croc but Oda had Luffy beat Croc in the most personal way possible and Croc removing his hook cover + his dialogue in the scene was basically him taking the gloves off. Hell Oda even showed Luffy take a sables attack then storm through 4 desert spada when 1 was enough to make a huge fissure in the desert in round 1. But wait, you're Mr. Logical... I forgot.

Oh yeah, I rarely read your crap because I read it once already, lulz.

Silence

I think Croc lost his cool against Luffy, and tried to go toe to toe with him without using his Devil Fruit powers, which was his mistake.

But let's not forget that Croc nearly killed Luffy three times. No other villain in One Piece can sport that kind of number – only Aokiji has brought Luffy so close to death. If Robin hadn't pulled Luffy out of the quicksand, Luffy would've died -- if Luffy hadn't gotten lucky, and been hit by water after the second fight, he'd have died there, too. And if Robin hadn't given Luffy the antidote to the scorpion poison after Luffy beat Crocodile in their third fight, he'd have died there, too.

Crocodile is obviously strong. And Luffy has obviously grown even stronger in the time since their fight. But I don't think that just because he was encountered earlier in the series, Crocodile still isn't a dangerous opponent.

In fights between people in this series, it's rarely so clear cut who will win and who will lose. Just because Luffy has gotten stronger doesn't mean Crocodile hasn't learned from his mistakes as well. In the coming chapters, we'll certainly see.

the_bump

@Urouge:

Does that make me an Urouge fanboy? :ermm:

No. That means that you are the awesome Urouge himself!

Refii

I'm a milk fanboy, I'm going to go cut some diamonds now in preparation for owning Mihawk.

Airflow

By the by, I have yet to find a single argument that convinces me that Moria can beat Luffy in his current state with no outside factors.

Hiroy

Jimbei is a terrible character.

SpurosT

@Airflow101:

By the by, I have yet to find a single argument that convinces me that Moria can beat Luffy in his current state with no outside factors.

Would it be outside factor if Moria consumed Mihawk's Shadow and used a shadow sword?

onemoment

@Jadosra:

I actually have a theory about Moria's power using Shadow Revolution.
Maybe if he wasn't so mad, do you think he could use Shadow Revolution to put Odz in a normal shape again?
I mean, if he can stretch them and turns him in a ball, why not put him in a normal form?

Fuck, Moria would be uber powerful then.

Well, I hoped someone else would say this but it didn't happen. This is an impractical idea, because for one if Moria could use Shadow Revolution to move a zombie then the need for shadows would be pointless. Plus, I don't think there's any way you can move a shadow that would readjust a spine. That would be pretty literally shadow puppeting internal organs and bones–it just wouldn't work with Odz's skin in the way.

If Moria tried that he'd pretty much be manipulating a powerless mass of flesh. Really, the only move that would work is that "Odz ball" thing, and that was pretty much a joke move. It certainly wouldn't be enough for Moria to sacrifice the use of his Doppelman, making himself a big target.

Jadosra

@HaxeyeMihawk:

"Yeah I repeat the same shit everytime in 5000 words even after numerous people tell me I'm mistaken, I even know that people aren't reading my walls of repetitive text yet I keep posting it anyway…" Anyway, you still don't get that Oda didn't intend for the reader to think that Croc>Luffy at the end of round 3 nor was he implying that Croc went easy on Luffy. In fact not only was it implied that Luffy surpassed Croc but Oda had Luffy beat Croc in the most personal way possible and Croc removing his hook cover + his dialogue in the scene was basically him taking the gloves off. Hell Oda even showed Luffy take a sables attack then storm through 4 desert spada when 1 was enough to make a huge fissure in the desert in round 1. But wait, you're Mr. Logical... I forgot.

Oh yeah, I rarely read your crap because I read it once already, lulz.

You don't even know why I called you a retarded.
Also, stop with that "lulz" crap, it annoys a little.

Jadosra

@onemoment:

Well, I hoped someone else would say this but it didn't happen. This is an impractical idea, because for one if Moria could use Shadow Revolution to move a zombie then the need for shadows would be pointless. Plus, I don't think there's any way you can move a shadow that would readjust a spine. That would be pretty literally shadow puppeting internal organs and bones–it just wouldn't work with Odz's skin in the way.

If Moria tried that he'd pretty much be manipulating a powerless mass of flesh. Really, the only move that would work is that "Odz ball" thing, and that was pretty much a joke move. It certainly wouldn't be enough for Moria to sacrifice the use of his Doppelman, making himself a big target.

Not to try to argue with you about this (Any Shichibukai > Luffy is pretty much solved by now) but I think that Odz ball was not just meant as a joke move, but to show Shadow Revolution of Moria.

UsoppSpell

@Jadosra:

Not to try to argue with you about this (Any Shichibukai > Luffy is pretty much solved by now) but I think that Odz ball was not just meant as a joke move, but to show Shadow Revolution of Moria.

I would just love for you to change the focus of your attention to another topic. I can't really stress this enough, the whole schichi luffy business is overplayed and will never get anywhere.

Responding to the actual comment I don't believe that Moria could rearrange anything that is inside the target with any accuracy. The only thing Moria can do with shadow revolution is change the shadow's projection, meaning that this will force the object casting the shadow to stretch and deform forcibly to adjust.

The internal organs do not cast the shadow, therefore they are unaffected or are linked solely to whatever deformation the actual body parts casting the shadow's silhouette have. At most Moria could readjust the position of his spine, but not mend it if it is in pieces.

MagneticMonkey

Whatever happens inside the body of the Zombie remains a mystery.
The bodys shape change and therefore the internal organs must rearrange somehow.
Moria can imo just control the shadows shape. The body just follows these changes and is not harmed…

Though the idea of moving the shadow therefore moving the zombie like a puppet is interesting...

HaxeyeMihawk

@Jadosra:

You don't even know why I called you a retarded.
Also, stop with that "lulz" crap, it annoys a little.

Nor do I care because I've alreafy confirmed that you're not one to be calling anyone else retarded.

Jadosra

@HaxeyeMihawk:

I laugh hard everytime you call me a Mihawk fanboy (which I'm not) funny thing is that I've defended Luffy way more (mostly against you and your "logic" cough) and I only defended Mihawk once when the numbnuts were saying "Mihawk can't cut diamond" based off a one arm, unnamed swordslash, as if he just lost a 1v1 against Joz.

@Jadosra:

I laugh hard everytime you call me a Blackbeard fanboy "which I'm not", funny thing is that I defended Crocodile way more (mostly against you and your stupidity) and I never defended Blackbeard in an argument.

Ignore my avatar and signature (Its a shame I don't have a lameass name to follow the character I'M NOT A FANBOY OF).

One of these days, I'l get banned for flaming, and then I'l blame it on your retardation, my friend.

@HaxeyeMihawk:

Lol and I said that after you called me a Mihawk fanboy because of my username & avy, then I said then you're avy means your a BB fanboy. But nice try. And didn't you admit to being somewhat of a BB fanboy? Pretty sure you did. And your sig lol.

Altough what you confirmed is true, I think you're an exception on the rule, bro.

IrishLuigi

@Hiroy:

Jimbei is a terrible character.

Looks at avatar

Refii

Luigi is a terrible chacter!

Wait, I think I'm doing it wrong.

silvers

@Refii:

Luigi is a terrible chacter!

Wait, I think I'm doing it wrong.

According to reliable sources, Luigi is actually gay.

But that's beside the point.

I think it's pretty clear that no matter which Shichi Luffy faces, he will be the underdog. Manga readers would expect him to win because he's the main character, but "if you were a bystander in the manga", you would probably bet your money on the Shichibukai. Whether or not he has a chance against any of them depends on whether or not you can think of a possible method of defeating them. Croc had the water/blood weakness. Moria… he went cockoo for coco puffs :/ Maybe Doflamingo has some sort of fatal weakness as well.

onemoment

Another problem with rating strength here is that every shichibukai has a lethal move of some kind, whereas their opponents usually don't. Yes, theoretically any of them can defend most people in one move, hell technically Croc could still kill Whitebeard with his water draining hand. The thing is, those moves also aren't perfect either, because there's just as good a chance that someone could possess the power to counter those attacks, even if it's just with great physical reflexes.

That's one problem when comparing Luffy to any of them. Things like stamina, reflexes, intuition, and accuracy are all invisible stats controlled by the author. Who can hit what with whatever move is really based on opinion. I'd like to think that past experiences can provide proof for these things, but it's just too easy to imagine your favorite character throwing that move they need to win.

Jadosra

Let's start a new discussion here.
Moria VS Crocodile, who's the strongest?

Overall, I think that Moria takes the cake, even though Crocodile showed better that if he took Luffy seriously, Luffy would be dead meat, Moria just didn't show it as good as Crocodile because the context in which they fought was different.

And Moria's Devil Fruits powers are much more hax than Crocodile's ones, imo

Big_Bad_Lith

@Jadosra:

Let's start a new discussion here.
Moria VS Crocodile, who's the strongest?

Overall, I think that Moria takes the cake, even though Crocodile showed better that if he took Luffy seriously, Luffy would be dead meat, Moria just didn't show it as good as Crocodile because the context in which they fought was different.

And Moria's Devil Fruits powers are much more hax than Crocodile's ones, imo

New discussion? This is as old as the end of Thriller Bark. :|

Instead, let's do Jimbei vs Hancock. >_<

MagneticMonkey

I don't understand how you guys can still make posts like "shichiA vs shichiB" after 555 chapters. Seems to me that you didn't read the manga.

Didn't oda made it clear that each shichibukai has his own style of fighting and isn't it clear that in a fight they might be pretty much even since everyone of them has deadly attacks?

…

Big_Bad_Lith

@MagneticMonkey:

I don't understand how you guys can still make posts like "shichiA vs shichiB" after 555 chapters. Seems to me that you didn't read the manga.

Didn't oda made it clear that each shichibukai has his own style of fighting and isn't it clear that in a fight they might be pretty much even since everyone of them has deadly attacks?

…

Well, I think its ssafe to say that Moria and Corocdile are on the low end SINCE THEY GOT BEAT and that Jimbei is down there too. Remember, he tied with a young Ace, who was easily beaten by Blackbeard.

But I do think that most of the comparison is futile, because besides the general

TOP-ish
Mihawk, Kuma, Blackbeard?

MIDDLE-ish
Hancock, Doflamingo?

LOW-ish
Jimbei, Crocodile, Moria?

there's not much else we can do.

Also, it doesn't help that Oda obviously wants them all to be equal, it's just hard looking at them and saying that.

silvers

A couple of things:
1. We haven't seen Hancock fight anyone noteworthy.
2. We haven't seen Jimbei fight anyone noteworthy.
3. We haven't seen Doflamingo fight anyone noteworthy (what he did to Oars Jr. could probably be done by a lot of good swordsmen - in other words, cutting off a stunned giant's leg is not proof that he is strong, it just shows how badass he is)
4. We haven't seen Kuma fight even close to seriously. It's like using a scene where Luffy fights some random fodder to determine his strength.
5. Mihawk is theoretically top tier, since he is Zoro's goal. Zoro is a main character. Mihawk must be very strong. Apart from that, we've only seen him play around with Zoro and throw an air slash that got blocked by probably one of the strongest defensive characters in OPverse.
6. Luffy beat Crocodile because he's the main character, not because he's more dangerous of a fighter. Technically, Luffy lost twice, and on the third try, Crocodile got amnesia and forgot all of his sneeky fighting tactics. Saying Crocodile's not comparable with other Shichibukai is retarded. Very very retarded.
7. Moria lost because he lost his mind. There were so many methods he could've used to defeat Luffy, but he decided to self-destruct because it's more badass that way. Nuff said.

So yeah, any sort of ranking needs a huge sidenote of this is 99.9999% speculation, instead of a lot of this "omg there's no way Crocodile > any of the other Shichibukai" or "you're dumb if you think Hancock's any good" that started this thread of endless retardation.

MagneticMonkey

@Big_Bad_Lith:

Well, I think its ssafe to say that Moria and Corocdile are on the low end SINCE THEY GOT BEAT

No it is not! Crocodile can still beat luffy and moria also can… The only argument you can bring is that crocodiles weak point was discovered by luffy. That's all.

and that Jimbei is down there too.

Why do you say that? A shichi who was able to fight logia ace and was equal in strength with him…. Why do people assume he is low tier... And what is does low tier even means?

Remember, he tied with a young Ace, who was easily beaten by Blackbeard.

Easily? Look at the fight again.
Hey BB is one of the strongest fighter in the world. Since when is everyone who loose to BB a weak opponent? You might say the same to everyone who fought WB… I don't understand that logic!

But I do think that most of the comparison is futile, because besides the general

TOP-ish
Mihawk, Kuma, Blackbeard?

No! We never saw Kuma fight seriously. And no for the rest!

MIDDLE-ish
Hancock, Doflamingo?

No! Doflamingo who easily cut Oars jrs. leg… Hancock who has the highest form of "willpower" and has probably ful control over it...

LOW-ish
Jimbei, Crocodile, Moria?

No! NO!

baby-boo

@MagneticMonkey:

Hancock who has the highest form of "willpower" and has probably ful control over it…

is willpower haki?

if so she said she doesn't hasn't mastered it yet.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/19/

MagneticMonkey

@baby-boo:

is willpower haki?

if so she said she doesn't hasn't mastered it yet.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/19/

Looks like a wrong translation. She actualy said that luffy seems to have no control over it. Here a quote of stephens trans:

Hancock: How can he have the same Overlord aspect as me?!
This is no ordinary boy!
But he has no control over it…

Usopp D. Teach

It's probably been said over 9000 times but I'll just say it again. The whole 'luffy>croc and moria because he beat them' argument is just stupid because of the circumstances of those fights. Luffy wouldn't have won without the help of others. This is One Piece, not DBZ or one of it's clones like naruto or bleach where battles are all about who has the highest power level and who can shoot the biggest energyballs.

though some people would really love to see that with all the talk of haki going on. The fanboys are just dying to see Luffy mastering hakihameha, which in fact would kind of ruin One Piece.