How to make the Shichibukai thread even worse, part 1.
Shichibukai strength
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How to make the Shichibukai thread even worse, part 1.
Yeah just insert haki. Now we just need Kairouseki to enter with his exploding heads and ice/air haki pics.
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I think some people are totally missing Moria's goals. He clearly showed he didn't want to wait for the sun to come up and finish his enemies he wanted to take them out personally and show how they were folly for even thinking they could pose a threat to him. This pride is shown earlier when Kuma appears and suggests he could offer Moria help which pisses him off to the extent of getting involved when earlier he was just messing around.
He may actually be able to take in a 1000 shadows but his endurance was just used up quite a bit from the whooping he got from N. Luffy so he may have overestimated himself. In addition, Luffy some nobody rookie used his own shadows against him that is a big ego blow. To show that he is truly the Master of Shadows he took in 1000 to show off his strength. Unfortunately this attempt was his downfall as he was not in the proper physical or mental condition to do this even if it was a sound decision given good conditions.
Really we can't gauge Moria's strength because I don't think he has shown much of his attack potential. He has only used brick bats as a shadow attack and shadows asgard. I'm sure when he dueled Kaidou he must have used shadow morphing to enhance his physical attacks like he did with Oz and his fake gomu gomu attacks. Hopefully, this will be showcased in the fight with WB and his allies.
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I think some people are totally missing Moria's goals. He clearly showed he didn't want to wait for the sun to come up and finish his enemies he wanted to take them out personally and show how they were folly for even thinking they could pose a threat to him. This pride is shown earlier when Kuma appears and suggests he could offer Moria help which pisses him off to the extent of getting involved when earlier he was just messing around.
He may actually be able to take in a 1000 shadows but his endurance was just used up quite a bit from the whooping he got from N. Luffy so he may have overestimated himself. In addition, Luffy some nobody rookie used his own shadows against him that is a big ego blow. To show that he is truly the Master of Shadows he took in 1000 to show off his strength. Unfortunately this attempt was his downfall as he was not in the proper physical or mental condition to do this even if it was a sound decision given good conditions.
Really we can't gauge Moria's strength because I don't think he has shown much of his attack potential. He has only used brick bats as a shadow attack and shadows asgard. I'm sure when he dueled Kaidou he must have used shadow morphing to enhance his physical attacks like he did with Oz and his fake gomu gomu attacks. Hopefully, this will be showcased in the fight with WB and his allies.
Well just remember that Moria was fawning so much over Luffy's 300 million bounty shadow that I doubt that he thought little of him, more like he overestimated himself and the amount of effort he'd need to expend to dispatch Luffy.
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Well just remember that Moria was fawning so much over Luffy's 300 million bounty shadow that I doubt that he thought little of him, more like he overestimated himself and the amount of effort he'd need to expend to dispatch Luffy.
Yeah but I think it was stated that Moria while he wanted strong shadows he didn't want ones from people who he believed could eventually defeat him so there was a some thinking little of Luffy. But its probably a combination of overestimating his abilities and underestimating Luffy.
I mean really Kuma who fought after wards showed off more of a repertoire of attacks than Moria did. While Moria is strong if he showed his full offensive potential in Thriller Bark that is sorely disappointing for a Shichibukai. Frankly Jinbei has shown more various attacks as well. Moria would just be above the 3 Shichis who haven't really been in a fight when it comes to amount of offensive moves they can do.
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Yeah but I think it was stated that Moria while he wanted strong shadows he didn't want ones from people who he believed could eventually defeat him so there was a some thinking little of Luffy. But its probably a combination of overestimating his abilities and underestimating Luffy.
I mean really Kuma who fought after wards showed off more of a repertoire of attacks than Moria did. While Moria is strong if he showed his full offensive potential in Thriller Bark that is sorely disappointing for a Shichibukai. Frankly Jinbei has shown more various attacks as well. Moria would just be above the 3 Shichis who haven't really been in a fight when it comes to amount of offensive moves they can do.
Moria doesn't need a big variety in his attacks since doppelman/brick bats are pretty hax, other than that he has huge stamina, however save for doppelman and the bats I don't think he could take Luffy in a rematch.
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Moria doesn't need a big variety in his attacks since doppelman/brick bats are pretty hax, other than that he has huge stamina, however save for doppelman and the bats I don't think he could take Luffy in a rematch.
I don't know about this statement. With doppelman and that shadow/body morphing thing he could be really dangerous. The one problem he had with Luffy was none of his attacks did any damage but all of his attacks were blunt force attacks things which won't work against Luffy cause he is rubber ( only haki attacks and Seastone weapons could work). All Moria needs is a bladed weapon which would help greatly.
I'm not stating that in a rematch if Moria took Luffy seriously that he would 100% win I'm saying its once again up in the air and frankly I think Luffy would have a harder time.
The same couldn't be said about Luffy vs Croc though as I think with water Luffy could now easily trounce Croc in Gear 2. Though I don't know if the heat generated from Gear 2 would evaporate the water making that attack plan ineffective.
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I don't know about this statement. With doppelman and that shadow/body morphing thing he could be really dangerous. The one problem he had with Luffy was none of his attacks did any damage but all of his attacks were blunt force attacks things which won't work against Luffy cause he is rubber ( only haki attacks and Seastone weapons could work). All Moria needs is a bladed weapon which would help greatly.
I'm not stating that in a rematch if Moria took Luffy seriously that he would 100% win I'm saying its once again up in the air and frankly I think Luffy would have a harder time.
The same couldn't be said about Luffy vs Croc though as I think with water Luffy could now easily trounce Croc in Gear 2. Though I don't know if the heat generated from Gear 2 would evaporate the water making that attack plan ineffective.
Yeah my point was that Moria w/o doppelman/brick bats wouldn't be a threat to Luffy, with Gear 2nd's speed it would be unlikely that Moria could cut his shadow or even make contact with him, however the shadow morphing and the fact that doppelman/brick bats are indestructable are what make Moria tough, hell even his stamina wouldn't hold up long against Luffy utilizing gears second and third.
And it's moisture that is Croc's weakness, (blood worked remember) so the steam from gear second likely provides enough moisture/sweat all over Luffy, so I imagine his fists and feet are wet, Croc would get slaughtered I'm sure. -
Man pretty much all of Luffy's opponents could have beaten him if they weren't doing stupid things based on creativity and underestimation, and not going all out until they show the full extent of what they can do and Luffy can find counters. Hell even someone like mr.3 should have been able to beat Luffy on Little Garden if he had used his wax power to its full potential right off the bat. And if you reread Enel's defeat, his mantra magically stopped working on Luffy's last attack - it came from very far and still hit him straight on. It's an adventure story after all, would be very short if everyone was sensible enough to go all out on the beginning and annihilate him before he has a clue what he's up against.
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Ussop has negativity haki. With it he negated Perona's DF.
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I think Moria is pretty strong. I've just recently gotten over his ugly design and i've begun to appreciate it. The biggest question is "What else can he use to remove shadows?" If he can remove shadows quickly he would be really broken, with the fact that the victim would die in the sunlight, or atleast fall into a comma. Plus we haven't really seen his full power when using his own shadow, I really hope he gets some spotlight in this war, maybe he will kill WB and want to become PK again and start building his crew back starting with the Heart Pirates, and law can replace Hogback as his main Dr. Excellent!
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@Fiasco.:
I think Moria is pretty strong. I've just recently gotten over his ugly design and i've begun to appreciate it. The biggest question is "What else can he use to remove shadows?" If he can remove shadows quickly he would be really broken, with the fact that the victim would die in the sunlight, or atleast fall into a comma. Plus we haven't really seen his full power when using his own shadow, I really hope he gets some spotlight in this war, maybe he will kill WB and want to become PK again and start building his crew back starting with the Heart Pirates, and law can replace Hogback as his main Dr. Excellent!
his face in the latest chpater had me thinking he's not all to confident in his strength
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his face in the latest chpater had me thinking he's not all to confident in his strength
Not this bullshit again.
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his face in the latest chpater had me thinking he's not all to confident in his strength
@Fiasco.:
Not this bullshit again.
It did look like a "I'm shitting bricks face", however I think it was just him going "wtf?"
But I do think Moria and Croc may be the weakest Shichis though Moria's hax fruit has me hesitant to totally dismiss him.
@JackVance
I think it was said that mantra stops working when the user is flustered and Enel was definitely flustered by then. -
That's exactly what i'm saying, steal a shadow and you basically win.
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He had that face when Luffy came to him for the first time.
And I think he didn't get scared at him…Also:
He had that face when Luffy came to him for the first time.
And I think he didn't get scared at him… -
I giggled, but then remembered that's gay.
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@Fiasco.:
That's exactly what i'm saying, steal a shadow and you basically win.
We will probably find out that haki gimps his shadow powers.
EDIT: I'm serious. -
We will probably find out that haki gimps his shadow powers.
EDIT: I'm serious.not even that i don't believe he can take shadows as simple as people think
without his shadow attached to him he would also die in the sun
so how do people think he could do what he did to robin on anyone named and skilled during the day?
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not even that i don't believe he can take shadows as simple as people think
without his shadow attached to him he would also die in the sun
so how do people think he could do what he did to robin on anyone named and skilled during the day?
I argued the same thing to Wolfwood that I don't think he can use his shadow for doppelman and the brickbats in the sunlight, but since I had no true proof I kinda had to give it up, anyway I still think Moria is the 2nd weakest Shichi with Croc being the weakest, but that doesn't mean that he was scared because of the ground shaking.
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Personaly all that expression mounts up to for me is solidifying my view of Moria as the most expressive of the lot, since he´s always the one to react and comment on things. Whilst Mihawk probably wouldnt change his meh expression even if someone shoved the black sword up his ass.
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Personaly all that expression mounts up to for me is solidifying my view of Moria as the most expressive of the lot, since he´s always the one to react and comment on things. Whilst Mihawk probably wouldnt change his meh expression even if someone shoved the black sword up his ass.
Yeah Mihawk always seems to have a "I'm constipated" look on his face, hell look at my avatar.
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I think he's just annoyed because he can't get his stache to grow all the way to the middle, and he doesn't like the mexican look.
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We will probably find out that haki gimps his shadow powers.
EDIT: I'm serious.I think this is true as well. Haki kind of evens the playing field against people who have these more magical kinds of one hit KOs/ broken abilites. This would include Moria's shadow stealing, Hancock's petrification, Kuma's teleporting you, and Doflamingo's puppeteering ( if it's a DF not if its invisible string ). This would still leave the DF users save Hancock with plenty to work with though giving us readers more to see from their abilites and versatility.
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I argued the same thing to Wolfwood that I don't think he can use his shadow for doppelman and the brickbats in the sunlight, but since I had no true proof I kinda had to give it up, anyway I still think Moria is the 2nd weakest Shichi with Croc being the weakest, but that doesn't mean that he was scared because of the ground shaking.
im surprised
you don't need proof because we've been told without a shadow you burn in sunlight
there should be no reason why moria would be expemt from the rule
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Moria isn't exactly severed from his shadow just because he uses Doppleman. So theres your possible exception right there.
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Moria isn't exactly severed from his shadow just because he uses Doppleman. So theres your possible exception right there.
Like you even had to say possible.
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That's kind of what I always thought. While Moria may not have his shadow with him he and his shadow are still connected( in a metaphysical sense). While people with their shadows stolen have had some weird metaphysical disconnect with theirs.
Also it could just be some weird special case because he is the master of shadows.
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Jadosra you say luffy can't beat moria right now but you have to remember that right now, moria does not have any shadows left. If it came to a 1 on 1 fight right now . Luffy could beat moria .
If you want to say he can steal luffy shawdow he has to catch him first , if he does luffy could always make him self bigger to esacpe the hold . Like he did when smoker had him.
They both seen each other attacks . Moria right now in manga won't be able to walk over luffy , he be in for one hell of a fight .
Back at TB arc he could have won , but right now is not the same as before.
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Moria is most likely gimped now. He lost his shadows and zombies during TB. He doesn't seem to have his crew with him. Oda isn't going to have Moria pulling people shadows out in the middle of the day instantly killing them since Oda isn't into mass deaths unless it's a flashback. So there's probably going to be some he can't use all his shadows powers during the day rule Oda is going to throw in.
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It is a naive concept to think that a strong person cannot be defeated by a significantly weaker one.
Moria and Crocodile have powers that vastly overwhelmed Luffy when they fought, but Luffy won in a great part because of situational circumstances (aka luck).
Now why isn't it certain? That's because on one hand you have an inexperienced child who's adapting to and growing on whatever challenges that has been brought to him. On the other hand, we have enemies who have been disillusioned with pride and arrogance so that they believe that they cannot be defeated by some random moron. This mix does not equate to certain defeat of anyone, however, when the Shichibukai lost, they lost a lot more than when Luffy suffered defeats. Luffy merely put his life at risk, since he did not recognize ownership of his goal. The Shichibukai had a lot of dignity, status, and ambition to lose. However, Luffy isn't fighting without valuables to hold on to. His crew is formed of people he wishes to join and who he knew would genuinely accept being on his crew. This became his greatest treasure as witnessed when he lost them on Shambondy (Saobody) Isles. Unlike the ambitions of the pirate lords, Luffy's treasures could defend themselves. So even when his crew gets hurt, he wouldn't necessarily defend them. But like all people, even he gets worried when his crew's lives are in danger. Anyway, although I drifted on a tangent again- like always, I'm saying that the outcomes of Luffy's fights aren't certain, and that is because of various factors of the warriors' characters.
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Moria is most likely gimped now. He lost his shadows and zombies during TB. He doesn't seem to have his crew with him. Oda isn't going to have Moria pulling people shadows out in the middle of the day instantly killing them since Oda isn't into mass deaths unless it's a flashback. So there's probably going to be some he can't use all his shadows powers during the day rule Oda is going to throw in.
Even if Oda doesn't like killing, that's never stopped him from killing off fodder pirates/enemies. Like Croc said to Vivi in Alabasta, there's a war going on and you really expect no one to die?
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If Moria was s gimped as people say he is I doubt that he OR the marines would want him in this war.
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If he pulls the shadows during the day they die .So he won't able to use them. The person has to be alive , that is why he used let them drift in place with out any sun light to kept them alive.
If Moria was s gimped as people say he is I doubt that he OR the marines would want him in this war.
Of course they wanted him . All the warlords must show up if only to show the marines are in control . Even if he is gimped it's not like any ones else knows other than the head of the marines and kuma. He is there to show how powerfully the marines are plus i am sure moria could take out people and kept other busy . Moria is liky stronger than 95% of the marines there .
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I'm sure Moria must be able to do more with his shadows and even others shadows than just stealing them. Back at Thriller Bark he was trying to make a strong crew which he believed was why he lost to Kaidou. Now he is not really trying to do that. I'm hoping more of his personal combat skills will be showcased as all he did back at Thriller Bark was try to avoid trouble and then Shadows Asgard at the end.
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Well Moria is going to be gimped from what he shown at TB. No crew, no zombies, he's a lazy fat bastard and he can't use Shadow Asgard since there's no mass of captured shadows for him to absorb all at once.
But then again he did fight Kaidou at once so his failure at TB may actually make him into a independent fighter he was before Kidou humbled him and turned him into the fat "let my crew make me PK" fuck he was at TB. At with that said, he may end up being a more competent fighter now. Especially if has more physical shadow attacks. But that's a big if. Since I don't think Oda would hold back a whole set of attacks for this war instead of showing them during the Luffy Vs. Moria fight. But then again we never saw the Moria vs. Kaidou fight as well so it's possible he does have a whole set of abilities he hasn't shown yet. When he had to drive to be PK by his own power.
As for why he is in the war still. He is still a Schibukai. He is still strong even with the TB gimping. He'll still be able to handle fodder marines with no problem and being able to hold off some NW captains or some of WB commanders if he faces any of them.
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But I can't help but wonder if Moria would have been allowed to bring his zombies over, if he had any. I mean, Hancock couldn't bring her elite Amazon guards with her but she gets to keep her snake. I wonder if 'undead army' falls under essential weapon for Moria or unnecessary luggage for the Navy.
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Hay guyz wonder if its going to rain so Croc cant use any of his sand attacks:silly:
Or hell maybe Smoker will blown away by the strong sea breeze.
Im sure if we try hard enough we can find other stupid reasons why df users should suddenly turn useless.
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well, joking aside, Croc is currently in the least favorable of battle conditions for his character.
On the open sea.
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Well true, but his situation is only slightly worse than what any other DF user face´s if they break the ship.
And like Ubiq always said, Croc really seems like the kind of guy who would rather just break the ship and drown them all with him than lose.
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Ace has seastone cuffs on so he can't use his DF powers.
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Yeah Mihawk always seems to have a "I'm constipated" look on his face, hell look at my avatar.
That's the look of a badass..
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Jadosra you say luffy can't beat moria right now but you have to remember that right now, moria does not have any shadows left. If it came to a 1 on 1 fight right now . Luffy could beat moria .
If you want to say he can steal luffy shawdow he has to catch him first , if he does luffy could always make him self bigger to esacpe the hold . Like he did when smoker had him.
They both seen each other attacks . Moria right now in manga won't be able to walk over luffy , he be in for one hell of a fight .
Back at TB arc he could have won , but right now is not the same as before.
Moria uses his shadows.
He can use the Shadow Box in Luffy, he can use Doppelman on Luffy and he can switch.And Neomaster, that's incorrect, because Moria is still in control of his shadow, the shadow is still his, it was not cut off.
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Moria faught Kaidou before he understood the process of making zombies as well as using anothers shadow to make himself stronger. That alone shows he is amazingly strong.
Also did Moria not say something along the lines of "you better be glad i'm not fighting myself"? Or was that just the anime? Can't find where he might of said that.
One of the Weaker War lords, who knows? But just cause he doesn't have his zombies means squat. He didn't have them against kaidou and faught equally with him, so he must be amazing. Yeah he is set back because he doesn't have his zombies, but that doesn't mean he is weak.
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Moria uses his shadows.
He can use the Shadow Box in Luffy, he can use Doppelman on Luffy and he can switch.And Neomaster, that's incorrect, because Moria is still in control of his shadow, the shadow is still his, it was not cut off.
Which goes back to point they see each other attacks .Luffy already saw shadow box it not like he going to stand still again after he see what it can do. Also is moria faster than gear 2 ? When luffy is on him would he be able to use doppelman to exchange him self.
I am not saying luffy would walk over moria but moria right now can not beat luffy as easy as you put it .
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How about instead of arguing again, we read old pages and then discuss them. We can start here, for example, and go from there. Or if you want, go back a few pages. There really is no beginning or end…
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How about instead of arguing again, we read old pages and then discuss them. We can start here, for example, and go from there. Or if you want, go back a few pages. There really is no beginning or end…
Hey, I agree with myself!
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@LongFist:
Moria faught Kaidou before he understood the process of making zombies as well as using anothers shadow to make himself stronger. That alone shows he is amazingly strong.
My take on pre-TB Moria is pretty much that of the ultimate bruiser, he's obviously got strength to match his body, an indestructable shield/defense mechanism that bends to his every whim, the greatest stamina weve seen in this series, a fighting style that basicly minimizes the damage to himself yet should he have to he can tank pretty much what anyone can throw, and while he does that he could just have doppelman bring the pain from behind, tie him up/cage him in or whatever else his trickster mind could make him do. Heck fighting Moria should be like fighting two frighteningly well coordinated gigants with magic powers at once.
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My take on pre-TB Moria is pretty much that of the ultimte bruiser, he's obviously got strength to match his body, an indestructable shield/defense mechanism that bends to his every whim, the greatest stamina weve seen in this series, a fighting style that basicly minimizes the damage to himself yet should he have to he can tank pretty much what anyone can throw, and while he does that he could just have doppelman bring the pain from behind, tie him up/cage him in or whatever else his trickster mind could make him do. Heck fighting Moria should be like fighting two frighteningly well coordinated gigants at once.
Well he is a tank. He did get up after he got hit by Nightmare Luffy's Lightning Storm when he was in Odz's stomach.
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After being knocked out for a duration of time, mind. Also, some would say he was mentally unstable after taking those hits. Reminds me of Shredder in Secret of the Ooze.