Yea, and also. Crocodile seems to get weaker(and with weaker i mean really strong but thats about the same as Luffy. And he's probably still amazingly strong.) in closed areas. probably as he's not able to move as much in small areas as for example impel down.
But Luffy's biggest problem with their second fight was lack of speed, and that is what he improves mostly with gear second. So i really can't say who i think would win. However i hope Croc has become stronger <–--- ....vote Croc!
Chapter 541: "The Likes of Vhich It Has Never Seen" Discussion
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-Croc underestimated Luffy because he had already easily beaten him twice. Even with his gears, I'm not sure whether Luffy could beat him again, simply because of how versatile and powerful his attacks are.
-Luffy inflicted the majority of damage to Gecko Moria while he was Nightmare Luffy.
-We haven't seen much of Hancock fighting. And Sengoku said she was strong.
Luffy beat those versatile and powerful attacks without gears. Now I know Crocdile underestimated Luffy but you have to look at the physical characteristics of the batle. In the catacombs, Luffy was superior to Crocodile in fighting technique and Crocodile was no longer underestimating him then. Let alone with Gear second where Crocodile wouldn't be able to keep up. Croc's attacks are useless if he can't even keep up with his target:/
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You do realise that without interference, the end result of that fight would have been that croc was knocked out and Luffy was dead, right?
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and the same flamewar as in the shichibukai thread began here…
The same wrong assumptions about luffys and the shichibukais level...Luffy beating 2 shichis isn't enough to put him on their level.
And we know near to nothing about hancock abilities....
Croc nearly killed luffy 2 times. It was clear that luffy was so outmatched back then.
Then he came with water was still overwhelmed... Well at the end he knocked out croc.
But would have died... And luffy without his friends would have loose against moria+odz....
What do we learn from it? Luffy has to improve and shichibukais are freaking strong...
Nothing more... -
You do realise that without interference, the end result of that fight would have been that croc was knocked out and Luffy was dead, right?
Well no. Luffy would be dead and Croc would be unconscious, arrested, and (without Luffy' interference, since previous chapters have shown us Croc had no plan) spend the rest of his life in prison.
Oh, also without "interference" Croc wouldn't have Robin's guidance to lead him to that polyglyph, not to mention all the events that lead to their fight would be completely different. Those two were never quite alone.
Really though, this needs to be kept in that shichibukai thread. These kinds of events clearly have multiple interpretations. Though I don't see why it bothers so many people to say that Luffy is "shichibukai level." He's still a 300 million bounty pirate after all. It seems fair.
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Oh, also without "interference" Croc wouldn't have Robin's guidance to lead him to that polyglyph, not to mention all the events that lead to their fight would be completely different. Those two were never quite alone.
Well, that point doesn't really stand considering Darkstorms hypothetical could involve Robin dying from that hook to the back.
Besides, that's a bit overly technical, anyway. You know what he meant, and the point he was trying to make; even recently, Luffy has needed major help, and major handicaps in his favor to defeat the Warlords he's fought.
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Well no. Luffy would be dead and Croc would be unconscious, arrested, and (without Luffy' interference, since previous chapters have shown us Croc had no plan) spend the rest of his life in prison.
Oh, also without "interference" Croc wouldn't have Robin's guidance to lead him to that polyglyph, not to mention all the events that lead to their fight would be completely different. Those two were never quite alone.
Really though, this needs to be kept in that shichibukai thread. These kinds of events clearly have multiple interpretations. Though I don't see why it bothers so many people to say that Luffy is "shichibukai level." He's still a 300 million bounty pirate after all. It seems fair.
…and this sillyness is precisely why I don't go into the warlord thread.
So yes, back on topic, as shmeckie has already explained the point I was trying to make. I'd like to see Croc & Magellan fight. I assume Magellan could hurt croc since he can emit a liquid form poison, so it would be rather interesting.
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Well, that point doesn't really stand considering Darkstorms hypothetical could involve Robin dying from that hook to the back.
Besides, that's a bit overly technical, anyway. You know what he meant, and the point he was trying to make; even recently, Luffy has needed major help, and major handicaps in his favor to defeat the Warlords he's fought.
Again, keep it in that other thread. Also, bull hockey.
I was hoping most people would get, I was trying to point out that darkstorm was being just a little obnoxious. I mean, he's just saying the same stuff that's been stated over and over. They're cliches for this board.
On that note, I personally wish anyone who says those shichibukai had "major handicaps" list what they are, since it just seems like a waste of other peoples time to post them and expect other people to agree. For one thing, as I see it Luffy had most of the handicaps against Moria.
@ Shishi-O: Oh yeah, and to what that other guy said, yeah Luffy is pretty much being portrayed as an ally to Jimbei and Croc. In that sense, they're all on the same ground. Yes, that's one of the messages this chapter was trying to get across.
It's not the same thing as "level of shichibukai" though. It's more like what Luffy, Kidd, and Law did back on Shabody.
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…and this sillyness is precisely why I don't go into the warlord thread.
Plus, they hunt your ass down…
So yes, back on topic, as shmeckie has already explained the point I was trying to make. I'd like to see Croc & Magellan fight. I assume Magellan could hurt croc since he can emit a liquid form poison, so it would be rather intersting.
As interesting as that would be, it's never gonna happen. Luffy's gonna get his rematch. It may boil down to Shiryuu vs. Croc or Jimbei. Maybe Jimbei, since I really don't see Crocodile participating in the final boss battle.
Again, keep it in that other thread.
Fuck no, you people are nuts.
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Indeed. "Shiryuu of the rain" makes me think he would slaughter croc in a fight, but it may well just be some kind of sword style he uses.
Can't for the life of me imagine how on earth Luffy would beat Magellan though.
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You do realise that without interference, the end result of that fight would have been that croc was knocked out and Luffy was dead, right?
Beating someone does not equate to living or dying. It depends on the goals of the two individuals fighting. Crocodile's goal was to take over the country, Luffy's goal was to prevent him from doing so. Beating Crocodile to submission prevented him from achieving his goals. Luffy wouldnt have affected his goal at all so long as Crocodile stopped moving. Ergo Luffy beat Crocodile.
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Indeed. "Shiryuu of the rain" makes me think he would slaughter croc in a fight, but it may well just be some kind of sword style he uses.
Can't for the life of me imagine how on earth Luffy would beat Magellan though.
There's always the small chance that surviving Magellan's poison would make Luffy immune. I wouldn't like it though. it would be Enel all over again and without his poison, Magellan has nothing.
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I dunno if Shiryuu would slaughter Croc if he had water powers, since Croc can also absorb water ("Did you think you had taken away my ability…? Water Luffy...?"). Hell, that'd make it interesting as hell; two guys who can dominate over the other one's power. Water v. weak to water AND absorbs water. That'd be crazy. Too bad it's unlikely...
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@Thousand:
There's always the small chance that surviving Magellan's poison would make Luffy immune. I wouldn't like it though. it would be Enel all over again and without his poison, Magellan has nothing.
Yes, I agree that would be rather shabby. Though it's good that we can't think of anything, I'd prefer to be surprised. ^^
I dunno if Shiryuu would slaughter Croc if he had water powers, since Croc can also absorb water ("Did you think you had taken away my ability…? Water Luffy...?"). Hell, that'd make it interesting as hell; two guys who can dominate over the other one's power. Water v. weak to water AND absorbs water. That'd be crazy. Too bad it's unlikely...
Depends on how Shiryuu's power works(If he has one). I believe Croc can only absorb with his right hand(which sounds a bit weird to be honest, he's a logia), so a total bombardment would be bad for croc.
Of course, looking at that panel with Magellan and Shiryuu, it may well be that he is a swordsman. Looking forward to next week…
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I was always thinking that Siryuu was a logia type character but recently he might be a super powerfull swordman and his rain might stand for the blood instead of water
as enmeis blood might burst out and fall down like rain in typeical manga sense..anyway If croc and shiryuu happens I think Croc will win.. my reason behind it is
Luffy does not have time to take down two stars of Impel down and Shiryuu unless he dublecross impeldown is a character designed for this arc unlike croc whose role, in my opinon is not just limited to this arc so I bealieve Shryuu will show how powerful he is against some level 5 prisoners and ultimately fight with croc and will give croc a really really bad time… but in the end I think croc will win... saying some bad ass quote like "you have only fought with prisoners who were weakened by their improsinment ..etc" and show that he is still a dangerous foe...well Thats my opinion anyway.. but seeing croc's ability I think even water logia exsits it will be a perfect example for croc to show how can he counter his worst nightmare by using his power properly... anyway I just hope Shiryuu and Croc have some ultimate showdown it will be the first evil vs evil battle ...
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Can't for the life of me imagine how on earth Luffy would beat Magellan though.
Mr 3's wax could be used as temporal protection for his fists.
Eventually the wax would melt but that could be used to increase the tension of the fight.
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Candle champion on Luffy! lol
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Candle champion luffy? I rather like that, it would actually fit in with Oda's arc-specific power ups.
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I would LOVE a candle champion Luffy _ Mr. Oda, PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!
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hahahahaha ahhh pure and simple chaos i love it so.
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Well. That may be a good speculation, being that the wax would protect Luffy from the poison for a while. But, couldn't the wax just be melted off by the poison? [Sorry to crush everyone's dreams? D:] Perhaps Luffy won't be going against Magellan, but the man that is supposedly more powerful than he.
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Candle champion on Luffy! lol
But that will be like the armor that Luffy uses in Thriller Bark. Hee can't uses his gomu gomu techniques!!!!
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I hope we get a full glimpse of Shiiryu next chapter. He probably has a devil fruit, considering his "of the Rain" surname… I don't really know why he would have that name if it wasn't due to some devil fruit. I guess it could be because as a child he murdered a bunch of people in the rain... or he has a fighting style with attacks named after the rain.
I really hope it's not a Water Water Fruit though. Too overpowered, and shouldn't be used on a character like him... unless of course Oda plans on using him as a recurring villain.
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well, look what we have to work with.
Magellen imprisoned him. Which implies that he'd lose in a fight with the warden. (unless the man was cooperative to his imprisonment) So his fruit cannot be stronger.
He has the confidence to take down Luffy, Croc, Jinbei, Emporio, Inazuma….etc. This would imply that he is either an idiot. Or is packing one hell of a devil fruit ability.
I'm hoping for something truly terrible from him.
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Im just waitin' for Luffy to bust some Impel Down skullz…for realz....
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@Pirate_King_Sage:
Im just waitin' for Luffy to bust some Impel Down skullz…for realz....
yah, i'm a gonna have to go ahead and agree with that. … yeah.:ninja:
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I hope we get a full glimpse of Shiiryu next chapter. He probably has a devil fruit, considering his "of the Rain" surname… I don't really know why he would have that name if it wasn't due to some devil fruit. I guess it could be because as a child he murdered a bunch of people in the rain... or he has a fighting style with attacks named after the rain.
I really hope it's not a Water Water Fruit though. Too overpowered, and shouldn't be used on a character like him... unless of course Oda plans on using him as a recurring villain.
"The Rain" could be a nod to another power entirely. This is One Piece, after all, people have crazy-ass powers. Look at Captain Berrigood, or Buggy, or Blueno. For all we know, he could have the power to make shit rain down from above, or whatever. Or he could just be a swordsman, with the whole "rain of blood" thing. I'm not even gonna try to predict Oda's storytelling, so we'll just hafta wait and see.
Agreed on the second point, though.
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Maybe he will invoke mass crying thus Shiryuu of Rain
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No Water Water fruit please, too imba unless Oda can execute it right and give it the right tweaks.
Anyways I interpreted "of the rain" nickname as it was referring to him massacring so many people that it seemed like it rained blood, which is a pretty badass nickname. I can also see that it might be related to his devil fruit ability (if he has one), but I am really skeptical about it for some reason, since I would like to see some people not relying on devil fruits. But i can assure you Oda will deliver!!! -
well, look what we have to work with.
Magellen imprisoned him. Which implies that he'd lose in a fight with the warden. (unless the man was cooperative to his imprisonment) So his fruit cannot be stronger.
Was it explicitly stated that Magellan imprisoned him?
I can't find the exact page rigth now, but i assumed he just got imprisoned. To me he doesn't seem stronger than Magellan, but who knows, maybe he resisted and Magellan needed some help from the outside to bring him down.
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No it wasn't explicitly stated but maybe this might help
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/538/11/ -
No it wasn't explicitly stated but maybe this might help
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/538/11/in this picture it seems that shiryuu got the same black wings
as magellan, moria, and the vice-warden 0ooh and i think his nickname was given to him because of the "blood dropping" from his blade/katana
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Anyone think the movie 10 spread, that came with this chapter is forshading some things to come. Or won't it be cannon, in any way?
Pics in spoiler tags, due to them being huge.
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I could seriously see Usopp in that outfit from those spreads.. Would be fitting if herakles gave it to him.
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To me yes Usopp's outfit does have that distinguished helmet which does resemble Herakles but it also looks like some sort of samurai armour.
http://www.antique-samurai-armour.com/2-6-08redshikoroS2/DSCN0399.jpg
Just presenting different possibilities, but Usopp wielding a sword wouldn't make much sense, like I said before just presenting different ideas -
Are those sketches from Oda or from the animator designer?
I wish the cast would use those suits for a while in the manga,they really fit them.
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I think i'm going to stay away from the spoiler thread until the war is over. This chapter was soo good with out being spoiled first.
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I think i'm going to stay away from the spoiler thread until the war is over. This chapter was soo good with out being spoiled first.
I know thats probably the best thing to do
but i know I'll know as soon as i see spoiler 442 I'll be in the thread before i take my next breath lol -
I know thats probably the best thing to do
but i know I'll know as soon as i see spoiler 442 I'll be in the thread before i take my next breath lolBest way to train your mental strength is trying to avoid clicking the spoilers of next chapter. I've yet to succeed
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Best way to train your mental strength is trying to avoid clicking the spoilers of next chapter. I've yet to succeed
Same lol i think the longest I've lasted was 2mins after i decided to go eat a snack before checking spoilers
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chapter 442 is already out!
Time for jimbei to show something. Time for Oda to show how luffy has improved or how he will… I expect something fresh.
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This post is deleted!
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chapter 442 is already out!
Time for jimbei to show something. Time for Oda to show how luffy has improved or how he will… I expect something fresh.
Dang I actually went and checked.
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Hey, 442 is the first chapter of the TB arc. That's kind of a cool coincidense.
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He said Chapter 442. Just like you did.
ahhh my bad just read it wrong,
thanks for showing my directly.
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I always manage to survive against spoilers.
Only 4Chan spoils me sometimes, they did so in the "I couldn't even save…" chapter.
Godamnit, I got spoiled in one of the most important chapters ;__; -
I know thats probably the best thing to do
but i know I'll know as soon as i see spoiler 442 I'll be in the thread before i take my next breath lolYeah I shouldn't have even checked I lack too much will power to avoid it oh well 442 spoils here I come.