Huh, I never saw any of that as needing to be rationalized. Yes, I've always saw haki as a universal thing that anyone could use, IF they have enough ambition or whatever the requirement is to be able to use it. But, I stick with my view that it would be boring if every extraordinary thing done in the series is done using haki. Your view kinda reminds me of other series, like Dragonball's ki or Bleach's spiritual force or whatever it's called, and OP is too unique for that.
Chapter 537 "Okama in Hell" Discussion
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Huh, I never saw any of that as needing to be rationalized. Yes, I've always saw haki as a universal thing that anyone could use, IF they have enough ambition or whatever the requirement is to be able to use it. But, I stick with my view that it would be boring if every extraordinary thing done in the series is done using haki. Your view kinda reminds me of other series, like Dragonball's ki or Bleach's spiritual force or whatever it's called, and OP is too unique for that.
It doesn't have to be every extraordinary thing, but perhaps I think people are looking for an explanation for things of the past that are not associated with devil fruits, and right 'haki' is the candidate for them to explain the strange happenings.
The way I see it right now, I always assumed there was a way to balance the many DF users in the OP world, and the most likely balancing factor seems to be this 'haki'. I also see it as a way to separate the old generation and the new generation. The Old generation relied more on this 'haki' perhaps, and then as the old generation died off, and DF became more popular, more and more people became strong due to their DF and stop searching out and training themselves in the use of 'haki'. (From the Amazonians, we know that it's quite possible to train this ability, or so I assume from the little we saw of them.) So, over time, 'haki' became less and less used by the new generation, causing the separation.
Now, I believe Luffy will be the one to utilize both mastery of his DF powers and the use of 'haki' to climb his way to the top.
Oh, forgot to address you actual point. LOL. Yeah, so I think the people who are screaming haki haki are looking for a way for characters without DFs to develop extraordinary abilities. I mean, when you think about it, DF allow for lots of diversity, so what if there is a generic means of becoming stronger for those without DF abilities. This isn't my view, but I'm guessing this is why so many are on the 'haki' bandwagon.
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Yeah, I agree that haki will be used to balance out some Devil Fruit abilities, otherwise there will be too much Pokemon 'type advantage' stuff goin' on later in the series. The old and new generation idea is interesting, but I won't think up any more theories until it's been explained more. We still have too little times that haki was used to really know what it is yet, but it really shouldn't be used for something like super strength or something. That's just manga logic coming into play right there. I was skeptical about haki in the first place, but decided to accept it as long as it wasn't overused. Now the fandom wants it to be overused. >.<
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i can't wait for the explanation of haki. I mean we waited to long for it and Oda decided to revive our hopes with the constantly growing usage of this power.
This mysterious chamber will only strengthen luffys mind and body. Constant pain for 10 hours. It's a shonen. Given luffys character, strength and will power he will never give up. So i guess we might get a luffy who has really gone through hell after Ivans treatment. As already discussed in the spoiler thread i think it might be a huge step in luffys power development or simply a huge step in luffys "power up".
But chances are also high i am actually wrong cause Oda can also decide to transform luffy into a woman breaking with the expectations. But seriously that would be madness since the main problem now is how strong or what new techniques will luffy learn. Please Oda make me happy :)
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As much as the fans are on about haki, I'm actually not worried about it being overused. There's lots of evidence to indicate that it's used quite rarely, with the one except being the amazonians I assume.
Either way, like Ivotas first pointed out, Rayleigh was worried he'd be discovered by the marines if he used his ability again. To Ivotas, and myself, this means that it must be a very rare ability. Also, we know there are different "colours" (that's the word used in the scan I remember, don't know the actual word used to differentiate the different types), but Oda has already established that there are different types, so I think this already indicates that even if haki becomes a bit more common place in the New World (I assume we'll see i there), we'll get lots of variations, just like with DF abilities.
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As much as the fans are on about haki, I'm actually not worried about it being overused. There's lots of evidence to indicate that it's used quite rarely, with the one except being the amazonians I assume.
Either way, like Ivotas first pointed out, Rayleigh was worried he'd be discovered by the marines if he used his ability again. To Ivotas, and myself, this means that it must be a very rare ability. Also, we know there are different "colours" (that's the word used in the scan I remember, don't know the actual word used to differentiate the different types), but Oda has already established that there are different types, so I think this already indicates that even if haki becomes a bit more common place in the New World (I assume we'll see i there), we'll get lots of variations, just like with DF abilities.
Sounds good to me. Just as long as people can actually do cool stuff without it being haki as well.
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Iva's Death Wink didn't seem like a fruit power or haki to me. It looked like the wind from him blinking propelled the cannonball back. Yeah, that's sounds even less reasonable, but maybe he's just that good.
That is basically what was said in the chapter, that his Death Wink was just an ordinary wink.
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That's a good explanation, Urian.
I think somebody else (or was that you?) also speculated that. This guy also posted that if Luffy's healed completely, he also would turn into a girl.
So that Iva-san not only reverts the injuries, but also the gender. They would have to nearly kill Luffy again to heal him and make him a boy again at the same time.
But what bothers me:
That transformed guy/girl who shot at Iva had a big-ass scar on his shoulder. That scar still was there when the guy was completely transformed into a girl.
So:
IF Iva-san had eaten the reverse reverse no mi, he could choose what he reverts. And this also means that if Luffy get healed he doesn't become a girl, cause Iva could have chosen to revert only Luffy's health.
This are good and bad news…
Bad News: We don't see Luffy as a girl. It would be so hilarious, if Luffy would keep his personality as a girl, remember when he woke up at Amazon Lily and the 'Kintamas'!
Good News: They don't have to nearly kill Luffy a scond time to turn him back into male.
If your theory is right, Urian, then there would be only one question left:
Why does this healing take two full days and why's Luffy (obviously, not sure) alone in this cave, if Iva's powers are involved?I never especulated with Luffy being transformed into a girl.
The reason why I am speculating with the "reverse" thing is because Oda made the same with the "deflecting" fruit that Kuma has, it deflects anything and with the same logic we can say that Iva can reverse anything.
I doubt that he is going to fight being a female but I don´t have any doubt that Female Luffy could be a good idea for escaping from Impel Down.
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To be honest, Haki is just one's ambition. Only in one piece, they directly transfer one's ambition into power.
This is a bit different than bleach and dragonball z because there spiritual energy or ki is strength on a different front.
Anyways, without Haki, too many things will become unexplained.
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I'm mixed on Iva because the whole chapter he seems more like a villain type but then the saving Luffy because of friendship thing kind of changes that but still not enough.
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And accepting that the force of wind caused by winking is sufficient reason for causing a cannonball to hurl back in the opposite direction…
However, I'd have to agree that smart people listen to the words of other smart people. Unfortunately, where are they on this subject matter?
As for how serious I am about this theory: I believe in this theory as much as I believe in my artistic talent.
But really, this theory is merely a suggestion. No need to flame me. Shame on you Zkaiser.
But the DF possibility for all of Iva's powers are still somewhat plausible. But that would put Iva's power on par with Oda. Being able to reverse direction of a moving object. Transforming a man to a woman. Reversing the effects of Magellan's poison. Maybe he could undo his prison sentence? Or reverse the WG's disposition to transvestites? Or reverse the Tenryuubito's opinion on human rights?
'Twas not a flame good sir, 'twas merely an observation. I had assumed that you of all people, the former bearer of the Shy-Guy avatar, would not have stooped as low as to whore out haki as a solution to such a situation as this. You even went as far as to attribute strength as a byproduct of haki. Absurd. I tell you, this current development in the One Piece fanbase is just like midiclorians, dust and nanomachines all over again.[/british accent]
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i can't wait for the explanation of haki. I mean we waited to long for it and Oda decided to revive our hopes with the constantly growing usage of this power.
This mysterious chamber will only strengthen luffys mind and body. Constant pain for 10 hours. It's a shonen. Given luffys character, strength and will power he will never give up. So i guess we might get a luffy who has really gone through hell after Ivans treatment. As already discussed in the spoiler thread i think it might be a huge step in luffys power development or simply a huge step in luffys "power up".
But chances are also high i am actually wrong cause Oda can also decide to transform luffy into a woman breaking with the expectations. But seriously that would be madness since the main problem now is how strong or what new techniques will luffy learn. Please Oda make me happy :)
Or maybe Luffy will be turned into a girl by mistake during the healing
:ninja:
Maybe 538 will explain how Iva isnt the King/Queen anymore.
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i hate iva-san now, actually, i always hated her from the begining. i cannot see how he/she could possibilty be a good guy. iva is evil, you see it from its ugly face and ridiculous action. i really don't want our luffy to be an okama. luffy will have to defeat iva-san and get out of there by miraculiously healing faster and save Ace.
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Calling it now, Iva-san's actor will be Nobuo Tobita
Clip of his voice:
Warning: Probably not safe to watch while at work, around small children or angry parents. -
whatever power/fruit iva uses to reverse things or work her miracles i think that the reason she can turn a man into a woman so fast is because shes had a lot of practice doing that and not healing crazy amounts of poison that the is no known cure and even the impel down medic staff cannot do anything about.
also i think the reason she was imprisoned was because she probably "ruined" many lives of people. for example the guy that was turned into a girl mentioned how his kingdom was ruined when his father became and tranny. the world gov't doesnt enjoy kingdoms falling i.e. baroque works and alabasta
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Mmm, nabe… drools
Oh, right… chapter. Uhm, what was this one about, again? Got distracted by the colorspread.
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maybe ivasan is orihime, rejecting everything.
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now I remember where i've seen Ivankof before
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O____O
Oh god, I would prefer FrankenFurter. -
i can't wait for the explanation of haki. I mean we waited to long for it and Oda decided to revive our hopes with the constantly growing usage of this power.
This mysterious chamber will only strengthen luffys mind and body. Constant pain for 10 hours. It's a shonen. Given luffys character, strength and will power he will never give up. So i guess we might get a luffy who has really gone through hell after Ivans treatment. As already discussed in the spoiler thread i think it might be a huge step in luffys power development or simply a huge step in luffys "power up".
But chances are also high i am actually wrong cause Oda can also decide to transform luffy into a woman breaking with the expectations. But seriously that would be madness since the main problem now is how strong or what new techniques will luffy learn. Please Oda make me happy :)
luffy is going super saiyan :devil:
Calling it now, Iva-san's actor will be Nobuo Tobita
Clip of his voice: azkXzUY3nN8 Warning: Probably not safe to watch while at work, around small children or angry parents.
ery nice, i laughed so hard
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Something I just thought of. Perhaps Ivanokov's techniques are a play on acupressure? That is to say, he can manipulate various workings in the body by applying pressure (read: punching) in the right place?
Maybe after working on Luffy, whatever processes are going on in his body are really painful…
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Absurd. I tell you, this current development in the One Piece fanbase is just like midiclorians, dust and nanomachines all over again
But midi-chlorians were an awesome concept. Unfortunately, they are fictional, and in reality they aren't needed at all.
However, I do like the theory that people in the old days did not rely on DFs for power, but rather used natural powers like haki. It could be that DFs are actually the product of an advanced technology. Whether Vegapunk invented them or they pre-date him, we don't know.
Nanomachines are awesome. They should be in One Piece too. Yes, Vegapunk again.
btw, if Luffy's healing is also caused by haki, then haki is truly an analogy to ki. Accupressure and accupuncture are based on qi anatomy and physiology.
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I finally understand the Okama now.
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I was just wondering…does anyone think Mr. 2 will join Luffy's crew after this? He could join due to a dream of spreading the okama way around the world or something like that...more importantly, would anyone want mr. 2 as a nakama?
how many times does people have to know that nakama means
1. nakama
The Japanese term for friend(s), buddy(ies), ally(/ies) comrade(s), or gang. In the Japanese version of the anime One Piece, this term has a deeper meaning, describing friends who are more like family, especially in the context of Luffy's crew. Because of this, many popula
2. nakama
Nakama means best friend, or something to that extent.
"Nami is my nakama!" quoth Luffy.as far as we know mr.2 has been their nakama/friend since alabasta arc geeze
Or maybe Luffy will be turned into a girl by mistake during the healing
:ninja:
Maybe 538 will explain how Iva isnt the King/Queen anymore.
maybe he/she isn't the queen/king anymore is because he/she's imprisoned?
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I dont know I hope 538 will get "back" to the story and explain other things maybe how the hell magellan can let them have their own level 5,5
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I dont know I hope 538 will get "back" to the story and explain other things maybe how the hell magellan can let them have their own level 5,5
He spends 12 hours a day on the toilet and 10 hours sleeping, what do you expect?
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@Thousand:
He spends 12 hours a day on the toilet and 10 hours sleeping, what do you expect?
don't forget he's probably spending those 2 hours eating and drinking poison
not much time left to stop the in-mates from having fun
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I dont know I hope 538 will get "back" to the story and explain other things maybe how the hell magellan can let them have their own level 5,5
I consider this chapter to be pretty important to the story. Luffy's not gonna die, we're closer to the execution, and Bentham has completed his goal of finding Iva. Also Magellan seems too busy to go search for level 5.5 since he's constantly on the toilet.
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Thats no excuse if that was the case he could just be the head guard, the vice chief or whatever…and also that doesnt prevent others from doing something about it who are under his command
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Thats no excuse if that was the case he could just be the head guard, the vice chief or whatever…and also that doesnt prevent others from doing something about it who are under his command
Considering that the vice warden wants the chief to loose his job?
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Thats no excuse if that was the case he could just be the head guard, the vice chief or whatever…and also that doesnt prevent others from doing something about it who are under his command
The prison is HUGE labyrinth with danger at every corner. Each floor is increasingly unbearable to stay in let alone examine so none of the grunts are going to try and it's on the most dangerous known floor. The Vice-Chief is incapacitated for 20 hours a day. The Vice-Chief wants the Chief to lose his job. One of the Chief Guards is too busy torturing people. The Demon Guards are mindless creatures that beat people up. There are thousands of prisoners that need to be monitored. And it's also UNTHINKABLE that anyone could have the temerity to build such a paradise in hell so why even bother trying to look? I think there's an excuse.
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I agree, Lion-chan, it's completely explainable.The only one that enters the freezing hell is the vice chief, the prisoners are left to freeze to death, without supervision. Snails don't work down there. Many things that speak for an undetected underworld. The only thing that's bugging me is that this gigantic Okama party has completely ruined the infamous reputation of Impel Down for me. Hell, I feel the the urge to visit a high security prison, because of that party. xD
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Wow, I'm sure I'm not the first to notice this, but Luffy had some serious wood on the Jump cover there! A serious Gomu Gomu no Giganto Pistol if you know what I mean XD.
Anyway, chapter kicked ass. Loving the Okama heaven in L5.5, Iva is awesome, and Oda must be one fun, weird dude to hang with.
I always liked Bon-chan, but these last two chapters have really elevated my love for his character. Still don't think he'll join up with the crew, but I would really enjoy it now if he does.
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Hmm, is level 5.5 below level 5 (between level 5 and level 6) or is it between level 4 and level 5 ? Freezing Hell was only level 4 !
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Hmm, is level 5.5 below level 5 (between level 5 and level 6) or is it between level 4 and level 5 ? Freezing Hell was only level 4 !
You're not that smart are you.
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Oh snap, I forgot about the snails not working>< Yep, definite foresight on Mr. Oda's part.
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This post is deleted!
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I agree, Lion-chan, it's completely explainable.The only one that enters the freezing hell is the vice chief, the prisoners are left to freeze to death, without supervision. Snails don't work down there. Many things that speak for an undetected underworld. The only thing that's bugging me is that this gigantic Okama party has completely ruined the infamous reputation of Impel Down for me. Hell, I feel the the urge to visit a high security prison, because of that party. xD
Hehe and I strongly disagree. The way you said it, some strong pirate was bound to break into impel down or out since ID forces are so pathetic …
I mean like I said plenty of times. People were not fine with luffy advancing through floors and some what being able to escape from magellan they should not be fine with whole level 5,5 concept as well by your arguments...
You just displayed ID head ups and guards as imbiciles who barely know what are they doing and those who know are most of the time unable to do it or dont want to do it...
Funny stuff for me personally...that for me goes right to ZKAISERS signature when people make up their own reasons to temporarily back up Oda...but usually Oda later on give us better ones...
And those people are still all happy because they think they were right... -
You're not that smart are you.
Indeed. I don't know why or how I convinced myself that it was still l4 :-(
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honest mistake can happen to anyone…
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Freezing hell is nambaa 5
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Hehe and I strongly disagree. The way you said it, some strong pirate was bound to break into impel down or out since ID forces are so pathetic …
I mean like I said plenty of times. People were not fine with luffy advancing through floors and some what being able to escape from magellan they should not be fine with whole level 5,5 concept as well by your arguments...
You just displayed ID head ups and guards as imbiciles who barely know what are they doing and those who know are most of the time unable to do it or dont want to do it...
Funny stuff for me personally...that for me goes right to ZKAISERS signature when people make up their own reasons to temporarily back up Oda...but usually Oda later on give us better ones...
And those people are still all happy because they think they were right...We all know the guards and employees of ID are very strong but they're also very busy with other things. They've got thousands of prisoners(As Thousand Lion-chan said) on the other floors. They can't go searching the sewers of ID for a place they don't know about.
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Something I just thought of. Perhaps Ivanokov's techniques are a play on acupressure? That is to say, he can manipulate various workings in the body by applying pressure (read: punching) in the right place?
…Okama Shinken?
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ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATA~!!
You are already gay.
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nice and crazy okama king/queen
something tells me pandaman was their but i dunno
now will luffy make it in time
he'll probably come at the last minute when their right about o kill ace n_n -
what's next people; series of ID related incidents involving Mr 2? Time skip to exicution? or the rest of the crew?
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i'm thinking mr.2 will explain Ace's situation and Luffy's courageous story of trying to save him, and getting poisoned by maggelan because of it. I think Iva will then say he cant speed up Luffy's recovery, but he will try and stall the execution. Iva and the okamas there(who i hope know okama kenpo) will sneak to level 4(with Bon Kurie as Hanabal) and free as many prisoners as possible, starting another riot, then wile the guards come to level 4 to try and stop it they cause a level 1 and 2 riot(not 3 because there to weak to help from starvation).
During this Iva goes and breaks out Ace, and Jimbie who is in the same cell who agrees to help them. Iva will tell of how Luffy fought Maggelen, knowing he will get poisoned and die. Iva tells about the treatment, and they hide Ace in level 5.5, and he conftronts the screaming Luffy while the okamas escape back to 5.5 during the riots.
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Well, I think that this chapter was a nice break in pace. We had some interesting new characters (they really must be something if even our favourite okama thinks they're perverts), and I feel ready to join the 'Inazuma changed genders' bandwagon. It'll probably look really cool when animated, and we've now got a situation on our hands where Luffy is incapacitated and Bon-chan can go cause a great deal of mischief on level 5.
As for 528, well I'd like to think that's what he'll go do. Luffy needs three times the amount of time he's actually got to heal; otherwise this whole escapade in ID will have been pretty much useless apart from saving a few people that he didn't actually expect to save. So with Magellan indisposed cough, some prosoners who already had keys from when Luffy was rescued, no working den-den mushis and a sub-hell full of possible helpful okamas…This is screaming riot.
Hopefully, if said riot occurs it'll coincide with Ace's escort party, just after they pass level 5 (or this part of it). That way, Ace is already out of his cell and the largest force of guards is likely to be behind where our protagonists are at the moment.
Only problem is, we kind of need Galdino to make some keys and maybe a wall of wax to trap most of the guards'/escorts' forces, and I'm not sure where he is. Failing that happening, well we probably need to help Jinbei anyway. Or you know, Bon-chan could just go seduce a few other guards. Shrugs
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this chapter was just too gay !!!
AHH !! I got you !! hahah
its was very cool though nice comic relief and very heavy towards the end…wttf still 2 more days of treatment??!! Nows its Luffy that needs more rescuing than Ace. Seems like Iva has reject fruit or something, guess Iva is the Orihime of One Piece. wtf ajahjajajajaa -
I wish Buggy and Mr.3 had stuck with Luffy. They'd be able to stay in New Kama Land. I'm sure they'd enjoy it since they'd be free(sorta). I hope they at least escape or something. Anyway, I can't wait until Tuesday or Wednesday. I wanna know what happens next!