Mihawk vs Logia users [May contain spoilers]

[onemoment]

@wolfwood:

pretty intresting stuff there Fire fist i had no idea thats where the idea for the three Admirals came from.

And onemoment no one is saying (or atleast im not saying) that the Shichibukai are worthless they are indeed very strong but this argument isnt about whether they are weak or strong as far as im concerned all this is about whether or not those 7 people could stand up against the full might of the Marine warmachine which i for one think not.

Use more periods please…

And as for standing up for to the full might, I realized something. Who's to say that each shichibukai will fight alone? Crocodile got a small army as a shichibukai, and I could easily imagine many of the others doing the same.

We're all assuming that the shichibukai will lose in a war fighting alone against the WG, but since when has anyone done that? Each shichibukai (with the exception of Mihawk) will probably have their own crew of flunkies to fight of the marines and enough subordinates to fight any above average guys.

The shichibukai in this case would probably only have to fight an admirals or something. But the point is, the marines wouldn't just "swarm a shichibukai with wave after wave of marines," no, some of these shichibukai seem smart enough to defend against that.

And as of right now, Mihawk is invincible to any marine naval assault that doesn't have some worthy fighter on it.

Oh yeah, that reminds me, if Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world for certain, and one of the admirals or VAs turn out to be swordsmen...then we can assume that Mihawk is stronger, right?:happy:

@Octogon:

What we need after W7 is someone to give abeating to the SH. Similar to AoKiji, because people are starting to take the SH and pirates i general to highly.

But we already had that at the beginning of the arc…with Aokiji himself:blink:

It displayed the power of the marines vs. the SHs right now. What we really need, is a display of power from the pirates, to balance things out.

Taking pirates in general too highly? I think it's just the opposite right now, who said that pirates as a whole were less then the World Government?

Edit: Kickass point Odlam.

[odlam]

> What we need after W7 is someone to give abeating to the SH. Similar to AoKiji, because people are starting to take the SH and pirates i general to highly.

Its a pirate, not a marine, that is the strongest man in the world, and the only person to ever rival him was, of course, another pirate.

The fact that the WG have to ally with pirates just to equal out with pirates should show that thier are only barely clinging to power at the moment.

You've got Age of Pirates (a helluva lot of pirates) versus Shichibaki (more pirates) + WG.

If it were simply all the pirates versus the WG, they'd never be able to maintain control. That's Roger's legacy, he spun things completely out of control with his last act.

[wolfwood]

@onemoment:

Use more periods please…
And as for standing up for to the full might, I realized something. Who's to say that each shichibukai will fight alone? Crocodile got a small army as a shichibukai, and I could easily imagine many of the others doing the same.

why thank you for the tip grammar police

lets use croc as an exemple shall we he had 2000 riff-raff fighters aka the "millions and the "billions and 26 officers with about 5 or 6 of them being anything special,

whilst one of the Marines strongholds lets use Enias lobby as example shall we? had 10.000 riff-raffs plus higher ranking people like their 2 doorguarding gigants, their K-9 unit, the 11 jurors, Baskerville and the entire CP9 unit if we do the math here we can see that just one of their strongholds has enough manpower to grind Crocs army into dust and with the CP9 assistance maybe even take down croc himself then take into consideration that there are bases like this(albeit not all of them as impressive prehaps) all over the world.

whatever army the Shichibukai may have aquired i would think pales in comparision to what the entire Marine has to offer.

[Polygon]

@onemoment:

But we already had that at the beginning of the arc…with Aokiji himself:blink:

It displayed the power of the marines vs. the SHs right now. What we really need, is a display of power from the pirates, to balance things out.

Taking pirates in general too highly? I think it's just the opposite right now, who said that pirates as a whole were less then the World Government?

Edit: Kickass point Odlam.

You're right that people are taking the WG highly now. What I meant to say was that the people are taking the SH too highly, rather than the pirates themselves. @odlam:

Its a pirate, not a marine, that is the strongest man in the world, and the only person to ever rival him was, of course, another pirate.

The fact that the WG have to ally with pirates just to equal out with pirates should show that thier are only barely clinging to power at the moment.

You've got Age of Pirates (a helluva lot of pirates) versus Shichibaki (more pirates) + WG.

If it were simply all the pirates versus the WG, they'd never be able to maintain control. That's Roger's legacy, he spun things completely out of control with his last act.

tank you for stating the obvious. The pirates are winning the war. But the Sh aren't as big of a threat as some people are making them out to be. Some people are taking them wayyy to highly now. We need something to knock he SH down a peg or two.

[odlam]

> tank you for stating the obvious. The pirates are winning the war. But the Sh aren't as big of a threat as some people are making them out to be. Some people are taking them wayyy to highly now. We need something to knock he SH down a peg or two.

They just destroyed one of the WG's largest bases of power, have taken down a Shichibaki, and have taken down the highest ranked Cipher Pole in the WG's history. (And of course they overthrew Enel, but the WG doesn't know that.) Oh yeah, and they have Robin who can decipher the ancient writings and uncover the locations/secrets of the lost periods and the ancient weapons.

What do they need to do to be considered a big threat exactly? I mean, big is relative of course. I don't think anybody thinks they are going to go and knock over the the WG tomorrow, but still.

How many (non-Shichibaki) pirate crews that are active do you think compare with the Straw Hats at this point? Not many would be my guess. Destroying Enies Lobby is a much worse assault against the WG's power base than taking down Crocodile. If Luffy couldn't be allowed to roam freely after beating Croc, what do you think the Gorousei's reaction to Luffy will be after taking down Enies Lobby?

Honestly, even Ako-iji himself (pre-Enies lobby) was worried that the WG was still taking the Straw Hats far too lightly. And it seems some people on these boards still do as well.

[Polygon]

@odlam:

They just destroyed one of the WG's largest bases of power, have taken down a Shichibaki, and have taken down the highest ranked Cipher Pole in the WG's history. And of course they overthrew Enel, but the WG doesn't know that.

What do they need to do to be considered a big threat exactly? I mean, big is relative of course. I don't think anybody thinks they are going to go and knock over the the WG tomorrow, but still.

**When they can compete with the big players in the OPworld, then I'll consider them a big threat.

They havn't done a single thing to be labeled as a big threat. A threat, yes, but in no way are they big. It's the same reason Robin was never labeled as a big threat, she had the knowledge, but lacked the ability/power.**

How many (non-Shichibaki) pirate crews that are active do you think compare with the Straw Hats at this point? Not many would be my guess. Destroying Enies Lobby is a much worse assault against the WG's power base than taking down Crocodile. If Luffy couldn't be allowed to roam freely after beating Croc, what do you think the Gorousei's reaction to Luffy will be after taking down Enies Lobby?

The SH themselves seem to be a little above mid-tier in the OP world. They are way above the average pirate, but they seem to be a little above mid-tier overall.

Honestly, even Ako-iji himself (pre-Enies lobby) was worried that the WG was still taking the Straw Hats far too lightly. And it seems some people on these boards still do as well.

No he wasn't. He sai that he knows that if left untouched, they will become a big threat eventually. Big differance.

[onemoment]

Wait, since when were we talking about the Strawhats? I thought it was just shichibukai, marines, admirlas, etc here.

I don't recall anyone mentioning them before Octogon brought it up. It least, mentioning them in a mjor way.

[odlam]

**> When they can compete with the big players in the OPworld, then I'll consider them a big threat.

They havn't done a single thing to be labeled as a big threat. A threat, yes, but in no way are they big. It's the same reason Robin was never labeled as a big threat, she had the knowledge, but lacked the ability/power.**

Enies Lobby! Let's face it, if the Straw Hats are only mid tier, then not only are there a mountain of Shichibaki level pirates on the grandline, the marines in general are a joke.

I mean, if taking this place out doesn't make them a big threat, then big threats simply don't exist. AND they have Robin in thier crew.

But ya, that's derailing the thread abit. Nobody was talking about the Straw Hats, just the power of pirates in general and Shichibaki in specific.

[Polygon]

@odlam:

Enies Lobby!

I mean, if taking this place out doesn't make them a big threat, then big threats simply don't exist. AND they have Robin in thier crew.

**Compared to the Admirals or the Great Pirates, the SH are weaklings. An Admiral (or even VA, most likley) can defeat the SH with their hands and feet tied behind their backs.

They have Robin and Franky, so what? Those two have the potiental to mess up the WG, but the SH lack the power/ability. why do you think Robin's bounty was only arond 70 millioon when she had the knolwedge to destroy the world? Because even if she wanted to, she lacked the ability to do it.**

But ya, that's derailing the thread abit. Nobody was talking about the Straw Hats, just the power of pirates in general and Shichibaki in specific.

This thread has been off-topic for pages, but whatever.

[Voodzik]

@Octogon:

Really?

Swordman B has a lot on swordman A. A lot.

First of, Basket ball is not fighting.

And people must understand that skill without power and speed are useless, that's right useless. Swordsman A is a weakling when compared to swordman B because A can't do anyhing to B, even though he knows how and what to do.

Strengh and speed can be used without much skill. Even though one can become much stronger by just urilizing a little skill.

So explain to me how A can beat B? B has 10X the power and speed of A. A does have !0x the skill of B, but he still can't do shit. Skill is how well you can use your physical, mental and spirtual body.

So it's true that if you have more skill you can defeat a stronger/faster enemy. But no if the differance is too big. Because there's no way in hell that if Zoro (with a sword that can harm supes) and Superman had a swordfight, Zoro would win. It's just not gonna happen.

If you remember when Zoro and Mihakw fought, Mihawk bareley even moved. That was a physical demonstration that proves you wrong; Zoro moved like a whirlwind, but Mihawk moved like molassas in january TO THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME and won the battle, no contest.

[Polygon]

@Voodzik:

If you remember when Zoro and Mihakw fought, Mihawk bareley even moved. That was a physical demonstration that proves you wrong; Zoro moved like a whirlwind, but Mihawk moved like molassas in january TO THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME and won the battle, no contest.

**First of all Mihawk was (and still is) vastly supiorer to Zoro in all aspects of swordmanship, including physical strengh.

Second, I am correct. Zoro can't defeat Superman, now can he?

Skill is N-O-T-H-I-N-G on it's own. The world most skiled warrior woulld be defeated by a toddler is he had the body of an ant.**

[Malintex_Terek]

Here's Mihawk's biography in Blue.

…

I don't see "element" (yousho) anywhere. >.>;

[Polygon]

**It could be in red, and it doesn't have to be in his biography. I'll just wait until Null relesases the databooks.

And you can read japenease?**

[Aldrich]

It is not in Red. There's even less stuff about Mihawk in Red.

Since I already translated Mihawk's bio from the french version for a poster who asked me about it in a PM, here it is:

Mihawk

He destroys a galleon with one blow!

One of the Seven Gods of Pirates, roaming the seas of the world alone!!

Swordsman, member of the Seven Gods of Pirates, nicknamed "Hawkeye". Zoro absolutely wanted to meet him. A lot of claimants to the title of strongest swordsman in the world challenged him, but he detected a special potential in Zoro.

A mere slice from the great sword he's wielding produces tremendous power, but he also knows how to evade his opponent's attacks and take advantage of his inertia. He reached the perfect mastery of his art."

Then there's two pics from the manga, with these comments:

"He can deflect a bullet with the tip of his sword"

"He acknowledged Zoro's value"

[Refii]

This post is deleted!

[wolfwood]

as for where in the pirate Hierarki the strawhats are right now id say they have gone from low to middle class pirates,and absolutly skyrocketed into about upper middle swiftly closing in on the big leagues,

their rep has gotten a huge boost with them first beating one of the shichibukai, and now wiping Enias lobby from the map (i know technicaly the bustercall did that but i suppose they are gonna be credited for it anyways.) and taking down the WGs secret assasin unit, and finaly having one of the only people capable of reviving those weapons onboard their ship.

[FireFistAce 0]

The strawhats are tough, but there are much tougher guys out there.

Period. If you don't like it, go home.

Blackbeard owned Sarquiss with his face. Van Auger shot several birds from several miles away. Whitebeard was drinking ale by the barrel and came out even with GOL D. ROGER. Kuzan beat Luffy in 5 seconds. Shanks could spar on par with the greatest swordsman in the world, a guy that can deflect bullets with his SWORD. Doflamingo can control people through some sort of puppetry ability. Ace blew up a dozen ships with a single move.

Until I see Luffy take down someone in five seconds (No, Bellamy DOES NOT COUNT), until I see Usopp snipe from miles away, until Zoro can deflect (Not Dodge, like he normally does) bullets with his sword, and until Sanji can bust a hole in several ships at once, then the Strawhats aren't the best.

[Polygon]

@Fire Fist:

The strawhats are tough, but there are much tougher guys out there.

Period. If you don't like it, go home.

Blackbeard owned Sarquiss with his face. Van Auger shot several birds from several miles away. Whitebeard was drinking ale by the barrel and came out even with GOL D. ROGER. Kuzan beat Luffy in 5 seconds. Shanks could spar on par with the greatest swordsman in the world, a guy that can deflect bullets with his SWORD. Doflamingo can control people through some sort of puppetry ability. Ace blew up a dozen ships with a single move.

Until I see Luffy take down someone in five seconds (No, Bellamy DOES NOT COUNT), until I see Usopp snipe from miles away, until Zoro can deflect (Not Dodge, like he normally does) bullets with his sword, and until Sanji can bust a hole in several ships at once, then the Strawhats aren't the best.

**QFT

Exept that Zoro can cut normal bullets with his sword in mid-air and Usopp already had sniped from miles away. Other than that, I agree with you completley.**

[odlam]

Until I see Luffy take down someone in five seconds (No, Bellamy DOES NOT COUNT), until I see Usopp snipe from miles away, until Zoro can deflect (Not Dodge, like he normally does) bullets with his sword, and until Sanji can bust a hole in several ships at once, then the Strawhats aren't the best.

So we're pretty much just waiting on Sanji to bust some holes in ships then? Luffy can already destroy pirates in the 50 mil range with one hit (why the hell wouldn't Bellamy count?), even before the gears, Ussopp's range had increased dramatically in this arc, Zoro is getting pretty insane, and although they aren't bullets, he was slicing multiple cannonballs apart in the Franky Family's hideout when fired at him.

What, are you some kind of anti-Sanji-ist? You made his prerequisite to be the best like 10x harder than everyone else's. I mean WTF.

Funny posts, aside, the Straw Hat's growth is completely unrealistic even in an unrealistic world, but who cares. They probbaly are already in the top 10% of pirate crews on the grandline. I mean, the average bounty in east blue was what, 3 million? And how long did it take Luffy to blow that out of the water?

Even if the average bounty for a captain on the grandline is 40 million, if Luffy's bounty is like 250 million +, that's a pretty good indication that he is a big boy now. It's most likely more of an exponential curve, where there's 10,000 pirates with 40 million or below, and 10,000 more with above. But even of those, only 200 or so have above 100 million, and only 20 or so have above 200 million. But the top guy might have as much as a billion. See what I'm getting at? It's probably not an even distribution.

After this arc, he might still have a bounty that's only 1/5 of the biggest powers on the grandline, but he could also still be in the top 20 pirates in the world.

[Polygon]

@odlam:

Funny posts, aside, the Straw Hat's growth is completely unrealistic even in an unrealistic world, but who cares. They probbaly are already in the top 10% of pirate crews on the grandline. I mean, the average bounty in east blue was what, 3 million? And how long did it take Luffy to blow that out of the water?

Even if the average bounty for a captain on the grandline is 40 million, if Luffy's bounty is like 250 million +, that's a pretty good indication that he is a big boy now. It's most likely more of an exponential curve, where there's 10,000 pirates with 40 million or below, and 10,000 more with above. But even of those, only 200 or so have above 100 million, and only 20 or so have above 200 million. But the top guy might have as much as a billion. See what I'm getting at? It's probably not an even distribution.

After this arc, he might still have a bounty that's only 1/5 of the biggest powers on the grandline, but he could also still be in the top 20 pirates in the world.

No…just no. I find it hard to believe they are even in the top 40% in terms of strengh. The SH are above average, but their still mid-tier. They ain't wanywhere near the top 10%.

[odlam]

> No…just no. I find it hard to believe they are even in the top 40% in terms of strengh. The SH are above average, but their still mid-tier. They ain't wanywhere near the top 10%.

Damn. You think the marines suck pretty badly don't you? I mean, taking down the strongest CP unit and destroying Enies Lobby, and nearly half of the pirate crews on the grandline are capable of this in your eyes?

I do not understand the way you think in this topic Octogon. One second your saying everybody is overrating pirates in general, and the next your saying that nearly half the crews on the grandline equal if not stronger than the Straw Hats, which (imo) is ludicris/insane considering thier accomplishments.

In illustration of an exponential strength (i'll use bounties I guess) curve would be like

0-10 million: 20,000 pirates
11-50 million: 2000 pirates
51-100 million: 200 pirates
101-200 million: 40 pirates
201-300 million: 10 pirates
300-400 million: 5 pirates
400-500 million: 4 pirates
500-600 million: 3 pirates
600-700 million: 3 pirates
700-800 million: 2 pirates
800-900 million: 2 pirates
1 billion + : 1 pirates

(just as an example curve, don't whine about the numbers)

So ya, it'd be very easy to see Luffy being both insignifigant to the upper end pirates, and yet still in the top 10% - Remember, Blackbeard was looking for anybody 100 million or more as a big game prize. Even the 100 million marker is a BIG DEAL. Let alone if Luffy goes to 200-300 million plus. That's a long ways from middle tier, even on the grand line. That's definately playing with the big boys.

[Taleran]

@Ubiq:

The entire concept of the Shichibukai does not make sense if they aren't roughly equivalent in strength; I don't see why people can't understand this.

If any one of them was easily capable of killing the others, then the World Government would have them do just that without a second thought. There's no reason to cut a deal with somebody who you can defeat, especially a deal that seems to overwhelmingly benefit the Shichibukai. They don't have to worry about the Navy or bounty hunters anymore, they can legally own businesses without government interference, collect bounties as well as the spoils of war, and have autonomy to the point that they obey the World Government on a whim.

If one of the Shichibukai was stronger than the others, the World Government would make it worth his while to off the others. Same goes for the Admirals, who don't have the option of "I don't feel like it" like the Shichibukai. They can always replace the Shichibukai as other pirates would likely chalk their losses up to them being a loser and the deal is too sweet to pass up.

So people who write Crocodile off in a fight against Mihawk or any other Shichibukai aren't thinking things through logically.

As far as the Logias go, it would depend greatly on his sword. If it's made of seastone, it's possible, but not guaranteed. Ener's an idiot and wouldn't have a clue who Mihawk was, so he might let Mihawk hit him on purpose. Crocodile, on the other hand, would know all too well who Mihawk is and wouldn't take any chances with him.

agreed 1000000000000%

well unless of course the WG is full of idiots

[Polygon]

@odlam:

Damn. You think the marines suck pretty badly don't you? I mean, taking down the strongest CP unit and destroying Enies Lobby, and nearly half of the pirate crews on the grandline are capable of this in your eyes?

I never said half the pirate crews are capable of thiis. I even said that the SH are above (far above) the average pirate crew. But still, everything I can think of points to the SH being slightly above mid-tier in the OPworld. there's a huge differance between mid-tier and average.

I do not understand the way you think in this topic Octogon. One second your saying everybody is overrating pirates in general, and the next your saying that nearly half the crews on the grandline equal if not stronger than the Straw Hats, which (imo) is ludicris/insane considering thier accomplishments.

**People aren't overrating pirates so much as their overrating the SH and underrating everything else.

I mean what have the SH done to place them at top-tier? Nothing, absolutley nothing. They have shown they are strong by litteraly taking down eneis lobby, but they havn't shown themselves to be big fish. What they have shown is that they'd go to great lenghts to get what they want.

People like Shanks, Mihawk, Beckman, AoKiji, etc can probaley take on EL by them selves.

And it's likley DonFlamingo's and Jinbei's crews can take on EL mucch easier than the SH did.

And the CP9 themselves (yes, even Lucchi) are less than shit to the big guns. How many seconds do you think Lucchi would last against a serious Mihawk? He'd be lucky to last 10.

the SH are taking out people like arlong with a single blow now. and in a while they'll be taking out people like the CP9 in a single blow.**

[Voodzik]

@Fire Fist:

The strawhats are tough, but there are much tougher guys out there.

Period. If you don't like it, go home.

Blackbeard owned Sarquiss with his face. Van Auger shot several birds from several miles away. Whitebeard was drinking ale by the barrel and came out even with GOL D. ROGER. Kuzan beat Luffy in 5 seconds. Shanks could spar on par with the greatest swordsman in the world, a guy that can deflect bullets with his SWORD. Doflamingo can control people through some sort of puppetry ability. Ace blew up a dozen ships with a single move.

Until I see Luffy take down someone in five seconds (No, Bellamy DOES NOT COUNT), until I see Usopp snipe from miles away, until Zoro can deflect (Not Dodge, like he normally does) bullets with his sword, and until Sanji can bust a hole in several ships at once, then the Strawhats aren't the best.

Well, by your own example, there's a problem. Sarquiss was WEAKER than bellamy. Therefore, he shouldn't count.

[Phenomenol]

oh wow big suprise big bad Don isnt afraid to kill some lower to middle ranking Marines but when someone of bigger stature like Sengoku walks in who holds the power to snuff out his misareble existance then no matter if as it seems your trying to point out that Bear was giving him the super secret shichbukai wink that allows him to do it in the end the fact remains that he follows a direct order without question and he cuts the crap and takes a seat.

LOL!, too bad you left out the part where Doflamingo disrespects Sengoku and was actually about to attack him before Mihawk walked in.

and also the Shichibukais are all Loners who work alone and doesnt seem to be all buddy buddy with their equals nor does it seem like they would even have a clue where the others are at the moment(without using the marines information network) so they would probably face the Marines on shichibukai at a time if it were to come to a fight and 1 shichbukai vs the entire Marine top brass=dead shichbukai even if thats the overhyped Mihawk.

Bwahahaha….. "Overhyped Mihawk" please. Mihawk is the Greatest Swordsman in the world that means he is indeed one of the top fighters in all of One Piece. If the Shichibukai even wanted to challenge the Marines the only people who would give them opposition is the three Admirals and SenGoku.

[Geese]

@Silence:

I wish I remembered where I read it (I'm pretty sure it was up on Wikipedia for a time), but in one of the Databooks it was said that Mihawk can cut through the elements.

Just putting that out there. He isn't the world's greatest swordsman for nothing.

I recall reading that too. If memory serves correctly he's supposedly able to cut through fire, air, and lightning.

It could very well be bullshit though.

[Aldrich]

@Phenomenol:

LOL!, too bad you left out the part where Doflamingo disrespects Sengoku and was actually about to attack him before Mihawk walked in.

Stop making up stuff .

[Phenomenol]

@Aldrich:

Stop making up stuff .

3 minute mark!

[sCrush]

@Phenomenol:

3 minute mark!

And what does that prove exactly? And don't you think it would be wiser to use manga evidence instead?

[Phenomenol]

@sCrush:

And what does that prove exactly? And don't you think it would be wiser to use manga evidence instead?

It proves that Doflamingo (a Shichibukai) takes no crap from even Sengoku.

I would have posted the manga, but I felt a little animated.

[kljs]

yeah, look at Don's hand, he was about to use his Devil Fruit powers….... before Mihawk walks in......

[odlam]

At the very least, I think it's more than safe to say that Sengoku clealry did not intimidate Don.

[kljs]

Sengoku is not intimidated by Don either….. you can also say that....

[odlam]

Sengoku is not intimidated by Don either….. you can also say that....

Well of course, it's just showing that neither side takes any crap from the other, and neither side is intimidated by the other.

[unchipu]

@Geese:

I recall reading that too. If memory serves correctly he's supposedly able to cut through fire, air, and lightning.

It could very well be bullshit though.

People have said that it was supposed to be in One Piece RED. However, unless the scan of it that I have is incomplete, it doesn't say anywhere that he can cut elements. In the version I have (thanks to psolaras) Mihawk shows up in 2 places: pages 42-43, and page 197. In pages 42-43, it talks about Zoro meeting Mihawk, not standing a chance, and Mihawk recognizing Zoro's potential to become a true swordsman. 197 talks about Mihawk as one of the Shichibukai, saying that he is an indication of the power of the Shichibukai.

If anyone actually knows the page number where it supposedly says Mihawk can cut elements please say so. If it truly is in the RED databook, I would like to see it.

[Ubiq]

@wolfwood:

oh wow big suprise big bad Don isnt afraid to kill some lower to middle ranking Marines

Which definitely explains why they're dressed in the kind of outfits that we usually see on flag officers and attending an extremely high-level meeting. These guys were probably Commodores or higher.

but when someone of bigger stature like Sengoku walks in who holds the power to snuff out his misareble existance then no matter if as it seems your trying to point out that Bear was giving him the super secret shichbukai wink that allows him to do it

Read the sequence: Donquixote doesn't move until Bear does and pretty much cuts out the snide remarks entirely when Mihawk shows up. He clearly respects those two while he doesn't care in the least about any of the Marines. The fact that he was willing to kill one of them out of boredown shows that he was entirely unconcerned with the consequences, whether it be because the Gorosei wouldn't let the Navy further alter the balance of the Three Powers by killing him or because he felt that there was nothing they could do to him.

The guy is nuts, but he doesn't seem to be stupid either. If he didn't think he could get away with it, I doubt he'd do it.

in the end the fact remains that he follows a direct order without question and he cuts the crap and takes a seat.

He sits down on the table first and only gets in a chair when a fellow Shichibukai sits down. There's nothing, nothing in the scene to indicate that he's afraid of Sengoku or any of these people.

and also the Shichibukais are all Loners who work alone and doesnt seem to be all buddy buddy with their equals

We've seen exactly four Shichibukai; one of which is a reknowned loner, ano another was busy with a conspiracy. Donquixote and Bear showed up at the same time though. Sure, Donquixote went and punished Bellamy by himself, but that was a personal errand.

That's not really enough to know how they interact with one another, especially seeing as how we've never even seen Jinbei and don't even know the names of the other two.

nor does it seem like they would even have a clue where the others are at the moment(without using the marines information network)

How do you know that? None of them ever mention not knowing the whereabouts of their colleagues.

Donquixote says that he didn't expect Mihawk to show up, but that's because of his nature.

so they would probably face the Marines on shichibukai at a time if it were to come to a fight and 1 shichbukai vs the entire Marine top brass=dead shichbukai even if thats the overhyped Mihawk

Again, the Navy could kill the Shichibukai. I never said that they couldn't; just that the losses might well outweigh the benefit of killing them off. It doesn't do them any good to kill a Shichibukai if they lose Aokiji in the process.

[wolfwood]

first of Ubiq i think its quite clear in this picture http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/onepiecechapter234.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4514 that Don is the first one at the table and takes a seat before bear does so there goes the hes just doing it cause Bears doing it theory out the window,

and no matter if hes sitting on the table grinning stupidly he still came and put his ass down when he told him to and since he doesnt seem to respect sengoku as a person im assuming its cause he knows whats best for him.

and as for them being Loners, sure they havent had enough screentime to deduce if they are all loners, but so far it all seems to point toward them being lonewolfs, i mean all of them that weve seen have been working seperate from the other shichibukai, the only time weve actualy seen more than one shichibukai in the same room are during the meeting,

and for them not knowing each others whereabouts, well thats just a guess on my part, in that it would be hard to locate people like mihawk for instance who just does what ever the hell he feels liks without a functional global information network like the Marine has.

and about the last bit of your post i totaly agree on that.

[kljs]

from the picture, look at his hand…... he was going to use his Devil Fruit powers.....like what he was doing seconds ago with the other 2 marine officer....

[onemoment]

@wolfwood:

first of Ubiq i think its quite clear in this picture http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/onepiecechapter234.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4514 that Don is the first one at the table and takes a seat before bear does so there goes the hes just doing it cause Bears doing it theory out the window,

and no matter if hes sitting on the table grinning stupidly he still came and put his ass down when he told him to and since he doesnt seem to respect sengoku as a person im assuming its cause he knows whats best for him.

and as for them being Loners, sure they havent had enough screentime to deduce if they are all loners, but so far it all seems to point toward them being lonewolfs, i mean all of them that weve seen have been working seperate from the other shichibukai, the only time weve actualy seen more than one shichibukai in the same room are during the meeting,

and for them not knowing each others whereabouts, well thats just a guess on my part, in that it would be hard to locate people like mihawk for instance who just does what ever the hell he feels liks without a functional global information network like the Marine has.

and about the last bit of your post i totaly agree on that.

I'm more for that "niether side intimidate each other theory." For someone who's supposedly afraid of Sengoku, Don's other actions don't make sense.

[Taleran]

@onemoment:

I'm more for that "niether side intimidate each other theory." For someone who's supposedly afraid of Sengoku, Don's other actions don't make sense.

bingo

you can do what someone says still not being scared of the person

[kljs]

Mihawk isn't afraid either…... from the looks of it.....

if there was a fight were to suddenly start in that meeting...what would be the outcome?

[Aldrich]

@onemoment:

I'm more for that "niether side intimidate each other theory." For someone who's supposedly afraid of Sengoku, Don's other actions don't make sense.

He simply knows he can get away with the kind of insolent little crap he's putting but that making two Marine officers kill each others is a no no for Sengoku, that's all. You guys trying to put the two occurences on the same level are hilarious. "He's sitting on the table!!!! He's not afraid of Sengoku!!!!" Please.

[onemoment]

@Aldrich:

He simply knows he can get away with the kind of insolent little crap he's putting but that making two Marine officers kill each others is a no no for Sengoku, that's all. You guys trying to put the two occurences on the same level are hilarious. "He's sitting on the table!!!! He's not afraid of Sengoku!!!!" Please.

Well, your inferring that Donflamingo was afraid of him is also riduclous. Donflamingo is afraid of Sengoku because he didn't kill those guys? Wasn't he just trying to relieve boredom at the time? And what better way then to scare the crap out of two marines? However, killing them would be something else entirely. Sort of, taking the joke too far.

Sadly, most of this is a matter of perspective and opinion, but I saw a meeting of some of the most powerful people in the world ,niether side truly getting anything accomplished or giving into each other. Hell, did they even end up doing anything besides listening to Laffite?

But to say that Domflamingo fears Sengoku, in my opinion, is too much, Hell, the guy doesn't even look intimidating. It seems to me that, if these shichibukai truly were afraid of these guys, then they'd just not go to the meeting altogether–the other shichibukai got away with it easily enough.

Lastly, the shichibukai deal, seems to me, a blessing to most pirates. In exchange for some trivial things, these powerful pirates get to do the exact same things they were doing to people and marines--but to other pirates now. It's a sweet deal actually,considering most pirates are like helpless citizens compared to the shichibukai. And, it gives these powerful pirates the opportunity to gain resources that they normally couldn't without marines interference.

It seems to me that becoming a shichibukai is kind of like getting paid to do the thing you love, with benefits. Not exactly just giving up to the government, but perhaps taking advantage of it for their own means.

[Taleran]

Logically they have to be so close to power that its even or else the relationship wouldn't work

If the WG was weaker than the Shibukai would have no need to be bought out by them

If its the other way around thne the WG has no reason to buy them

Or the third is that the the Shibukai(sp?) are stronger but are also people who need the money and like easyu money which the WG provides

[odlam]

Mihawk isn't afraid either…... from the looks of it.....

if there was a fight were to suddenly start in that meeting...what would be the outcome?

lol actually I rather enjoyed the way Sengoku's surprised reaction to Mihawk showing up.

I got more of a sense of Sengoku being afraid of Mihawk than I did anyone else being afraid of anyone else in that room. He literally stuttered out his sentence when he saw Mihawk.

I'm not really serious as I think that scene was meant to show that the Shichibaki and the marines are unintimidated by one another buuuuut since, you know, we seem to be reading so far inbetween the lines on everything and everybone being afraid of everyone.

[wolfwood]

@onemoment:

But to say that Domflamingo fears Sengoku, in my opinion, is too much, Hell, the guy doesn't even look intimidating.

its not even neccesarily Sengoku himself hes intimidated by, it could very well just be the the power he weilds that from his rank,

and also i find the word afraid to be a little severe, i mean its not like hes shaking in his pink little boots id say intimidated is more accurate.

and Odlam you dont think that the stuttering could have had more to do with the utter shock of having the notorious loner who by the looks of it hadnt attended a meeting in ages dropping by?
but i admit the Marines seem to be more respectful towards Mihawk you dont see anyone calling him trash of the seas

[Aldrich]

I'm not saying he's terrified or anything, he just knows it's better for him not to engage in a battle with Sengoku, that's all. Label it respect, intelligence, whatever you want, he stops when Sengoku asks him too. Period.

[odlam]

but i admit the Marines seem to be more respectful towards Mihawk you dont see anyone calling him trash of the seas

lol I almost wish we'd have Flamingo and Sengoku interact more, I actually enjoyed the constant banter with the "trash of the seas" and "nothing is more depressing to hear than the pirate business doing well" comments, and Flamingo's about "making the name Buddha cry" and taunting about how well his pirating is going - they were just verbally jabbing back and forth. I also enjoyed the way when Sengoku told Don to take a seat, he instead stepped over the seat and sat in the middle of the table and kept up the insults. They were both definately goading each other.

I'd love to see a Shichibaki and an Admiral working together at some point in the story just to hear the jabbing between them.

Ultimately though, I think the reason there isn't anything resembling a consensus is because there is no evidence there to support one. Neither side is shown giving any ground to the other, and the only way to come to a conclusion that either side intimidated the other is to read so far between the lines that it's practically impossible for any two people to read the same thing.

[wolfwood]

@odlam:

and the only way to come to a conclusion that either side intimidated the other is to read so far between the lines that it's practically impossible for any two people to read the same thing.

funny enough me and Aldrich came to about the same conclusion

[odlam]

funny enough me and Aldrich came to about the same conclusion

and onemoment, myself, and several others all came to different ones, cause the supporting evidence for that conclusion is exceedingly exceedingly small to the point of "well he stopped choking the small fish when the big fish entered the room, and instead shifted his attention to the big fish" so he must be scared of Sengoku! Even though he lifted his hands to use his df powers, sat flat in the middle of the table instead of taking a seat, and kept insulting him.

And ya, not to mention the way Sengoku figuretively spat up his coke when Mihawk came in. So does that mean Sengoku is afraid of Mihawk?