General Devil Fruit Discussion

[themick]

@Vanessa:

But he in fact did, so you're wrong.

And Luffy didn't start feeling weak until he was actually touching the bars or hit by the jutte. Hell Smoker was just fine all throughout their imprisonment at Rain Dinners.

Try again.

The comic shows otherwise so you know…you're wrong again.

I know I'm asking too much of you at this point but actually read my former posts concerning this.

I'll even be nice and give you specific examples with logias that lean towards the element being the default state:

-Ener was attacked by Kamakiri while asleep and remained a lightningman. And he was dead after being hit with the Reject Dial yet lightning coming from Ener was what restarted his heart.

-Ace wouldn't have had to restart on making Oars III's hat multiple times due to burning it on prior attempts. If fire wasn't the default state that wouldn't ever have been a problem.

-Teach taking more damage than normal all the time from attacks wouldn't be seen as such a risk if he could just switch it off.

None of those would be the case were their element not the default state. You are wrong. Again.

See above.

Your whole argument against mine is "IF IT WAS MY WAY IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED THIS WAY" when all signs point to it not being your way and it not happening the way you mention.

The Yami Fruit doesn't weaken Power Users, only seastone does that in addition to shutting down abilities.

It's why Newgate kicked Teach's ass and slashed a big wound into his shoulder with the bisento even while the latter shut down the Gura Fruit with Dark Vortex

Luffy said Lucci's Rokuougan felt just like the Impact Dial. Are you saying those two things work exactly the same even though one is a tool and another is a technique.

My point was a character mentioning how it feels, what you mentioned, isn't infallible. On the other hand I've brought up multiple examples where we're outright shown the differences by how characters have been shown to react to both water and seastone. I'm even giving you a comparison in dialouge with the same character to show that using such things isn't an absolute.

You're the one ignoring anything that doesn't coincide with your view, which is a lot.

Luffy was hit that specific time with the jutte, he points it out right after.

! http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/One-Piece/559/011.jpg
Don't change the argument just because you can't refute mine.

So…nothing then, awesome. Already addressed above yadda yadda yadda.

You're done, bring something new that adds to the discussion or don't bother responding.

Luffy claimed to have no energy without touching the bars. He said it to ussop right before smoker jumped on him.

I believe that logia users are base state normal. But they can access/activate their fruit on an uncosicous level. This explains why they can be attacked unaware and still not be hurt. Besides if logia users were default their elements then aokiji would walk around freezing everything with every step. Akainu would melt the ground under him with every step. Ace would burn everything around him. You will probably claim that they control it so it doesnt do that. Well what about when they sleep? They sleep but still consicously control it not to go off? Cuz like you said ace couldnt even keep it under control while trying to weave straw.

You have said seastone made Das Bones no longer be blades. Therefore take damage from a hit. This says that seastone behaves just like the yami yami. But we know that the yami yami is the only thing that can completely turn off a DF power.

Which is why WB attacks with the bisento not gura gura. Im not sure why u even mention this tho.

So how about you explain to me exatcly what you think seastone does. I believe that just like the ocean, it supresses powers and weakens the DF users energy. But does not transform them to a normal human body.

Why would seastone which "emits the same energy as the sea" act any differently than the ocean?

It seems to me we need to settle this before we can get back into the discussion about DFs. Because we are both coming from different sides and dont completely grasp the others starting point.

[i can be heroic]

@Ryuksgelus:

Why the confused face? Luffy is immune to blunt attacks not just resistant. Show one example where Luffy was actually damaged by Lucci, Sabo, or Ace? You counting times when a sharp kick has made some blood fly out of his face? Why would Luffy, Chopper, and Sanji be so shocked when Luffy does take damage with blunt attacks if they have damaged him before?

Sabo and Ace yes, but Lucci is one of the only people in all of One Piece to nearly kill Luffy with blunt physical force.

[brennen.exe]

I think we need to be clear about something: ODA has been inconsistent. Both with Luffy's use of his power and with his body's resistance to damage. I think Ryuk is the most correct in this case, however, in that Oda's real intent with the Gomu Fruit was to make Luffy almost completely immune to blunt force. At the same time I cannot say Vanessa is at all wrong either, as I know she would refer to it as the smallest possible amount of damage. EX: "1 HP loss" from a given attack rather than "300 HP loss" or something. The most telling scene in the manga, however, is when Moria uses his island-breaking attack on Luffy only to have Luffy shrug it off declaring that he is a rubber man. So does that mean Luffy took "1 HP" of damage from Moria's attack? Doesn't seem like it, but I don't think it'd make much of a difference. Like Ryuk said, all the times people are shocked at Luffy receiving a blunt attack and claiming it hurt only work if Luffy does, in fact, receive little to no damage from blunt attacks.

Anyway, when discussing things, it makes more sense to view him as immune to blunt force rather than resistant, because like Moria and Kizaru's attacks show, no matter how many BLUNT attacks Luffy receives, he'll just keep getting up without a hitch. The problem is Oda. He's inconsistent because of course he needs to make Luffy struggle in fights more; when he wants to, however, he can rub in Luffy's power.

[themick]

@brennen.exe:

I think we need to be clear about something: ODA has been inconsistent. Both with Luffy's use of his power and with his body's resistance to damage. I think Ryuk is the most correct in this case, however, in that Oda's real intent with the Gomu Fruit was to make Luffy almost completely immune to blunt force. At the same time I cannot say Vanessa is at all wrong either, as I know she would refer to it as the smallest possible amount of damage. EX: "1 HP loss" from a given attack rather than "300 HP loss" or something. The most telling scene in the manga, however, is when Moria uses his island-breaking attack on Luffy only to have Luffy shrug it off declaring that he is a rubber man. So does that mean Luffy took "1 HP" of damage from Moria's attack? Doesn't seem like it, but I don't think it'd make much of a difference. Like Ryuk said, all the times people are shocked at Luffy receiving a blunt attack and claiming it hurt only work if Luffy does, in fact, receive little to no damage from blunt attacks.

Anyway, when discussing things, it makes more sense to view him as immune to blunt force rather than resistant, because like Moria and Kizaru's attacks show, no matter how many BLUNT attacks Luffy receives, he'll just keep getting up without a hitch. The problem is Oda. He's inconsistent because of course he needs to make Luffy struggle in fights more; when he wants to, however, he can rub in Luffy's power.

Luffys rubber powers seem to give him increased defense against all but the most typical slashing attacks. Even piercing attacks are diminsished against him. For example when Lucci used shigan on Luffy's neck.

[Coruscation]

It's sharp objects, specifically, that are his "weak point". If you were to "slash" him with a sword that isn't sharp, it wouldn't do anything. If you were to fire a bullet with a sharpened edge at him, it would pierce him like anyone else. Shigan was the equivalent of a normal bullet, a blunt one, while Leopard-form Shigan utilized the sharp claws to work properly on him.

[themick]

@Coruscation:

It's sharp objects, specifically, that are his "weak point". If you were to "slash" him with a sword that isn't sharp, it wouldn't do anything. If you were to fire a bullet with a sharpened edge at him, it would pierce him like anyone else. Shigan was the equivalent of a normal bullet, a blunt one, while Leopard-form Shigan utilized the sharp claws to work properly on him.

True. I guess by the way luffy reacted i assumed shigan (even in normal form) contained more of a piercing factor then regular bullets. But this could just have been surprise or the fact that shigan is many times more powerful than gun fire.

[Coruscation]

It just came at him with a lot more force than a normal gun, I'd say. Though in honesty Lucci's Shigan-barrage in their later EL fight doesn't look that different from when Luffy gets shot on the wagon of the sea train IIRC.

[Urouge]

I think Luffy is immune to blunt damage that has no seastone or haki involved. I also think Buggy is immune to cutting attacks regardless of what's involved. I have difficulties explaining the physics logic behind it.

Beyond that, I think Vanessa is right.

[freedom]

@Urouge:

I think Luffy is immune to blunt damage that has no seastone or haki involved. I also think Buggy is immune to cutting attacks regardless of what's involved. I have difficulties explaining the physics logic behind it.

Beyond that, I think Vanessa is right.

The last thing I'd want to admit is that the clown is in any way, shape or form powerful.
However, given Oda's love for the clown, and how convenient situations always work out in his favor.
I'm forced to agree with you and Vanessa on the theory that Buggy is immune to stabbing, slicing, cutting attacks, etc, even if said attack is with ambition.

Though I'd very much like any shread of evidence to disprove this theory :ninja:

[Vanessa]

@themick:

Luffy claimed to have no energy without touching the bars. He said it to ussop right before smoker jumped on him.

Wrong:

! And wrong:

!

I believe that logia users are base state normal. But they can access/activate their fruit on an uncosicous level. This explains why they can be attacked unaware and still not be hurt. Besides if logia users were default their elements then aokiji would walk around freezing everything with every step. Akainu would melt the ground under him with every step. Ace would burn everything around him. You will probably claim that they control it so it doesnt do that. Well what about when they sleep? They sleep but still consicously control it not to go off? Cuz like you said ace couldnt even keep it under control while trying to weave straw.

I don't care what you "believe" since aside from your disagreeing with me you've brought nothing to the table that I haven't addressed and/or refuted. You have done no such thing.

And if your best argument at this point is "lol how dey sleep" then you might as well not even bother. You might as well start questioning needless things like why their clothing manages to stay around or how the hell Smoker magically has his jutte reappear when he starts actually using it.

You have said seastone made Das Bones no longer be blades. Therefore take damage from a hit. This says that seastone behaves just like the yami yami. But we know that the yami yami is the only thing that can completely turn off a DF power.

I like how you ignore that seastone weakens Power Users in addition to shutting the ability down. Hell the example you've been throwing out long after I've addressed it already shows us just that. You're even forgetting your prior statements and contradicting yourself now.

And what makes the Yami Fruit so special is that it's the only Devil Fruit that's capable of such thing.

Which is why WB attacks with the bisento not gura gura. Im not sure why u even mention this tho.

Because it backs up what I've been saying all this time.

Now bring actual scans that attempt to back up your view in the smallest way instead of your feelings about anything or again, don't even bother.

So how about you explain to me exatcly what you think seastone does. I believe that just like the ocean, it supresses powers and weakens the DF users energy. But does not transform them to a normal human body.

This is confirming to me that you're not even reading my posts if you have to ask this so far into the argument.

I've already provided explanations stating what it's been outright shown to you, it's not even just what I think since I've told you what chapters or scenario in the comic correspond to what I've been saying. Unlike you who's been only going by what you "believe" without any decent backing.

So again, don't care what you believe. Start including examples now.

Why would seastone which "emits the same energy as the sea" act any differently than the ocean?

The "why" doesn't matter at all since we've been shown that it does in fact act differently.

You can't refute that no matter how many times you think that's not the case.

It seems to me we need to settle this before we can get back into the discussion about DFs. Because we are both coming from different sides and dont completely grasp the others starting point.

Your point makes tons of inconsistencies within the story itself while constantly being wrong about the information.

Even in your last post you claim Luffy wasn't touching the bars and well…look above.

Done with this now, woosh.

[themick]

We are just going to have to agree to disagree. Neither side can be conclusivly proved or disproved. Guess we will just wait for Oda to answer this in a future arc or in an SBS.

[Monkey D]

@i:

Sabo and Ace yes, but Lucci is one of the only people in all of One Piece to nearly kill Luffy with blunt physical force.
[qimg]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091106172218/onepiece/images/5/59/Sai_Dai_Rin_Rokuougan.gif[/qimg]

The technique you show is similar to a reject dial, it's like a powerful impact that inflicts internal damages. So no it's not just a blunt physical attack.

[i can be heroic]

@Monkey:

The technique you show is similar to a reject dial, it's like a powerful impact that inflicts internal damages. So no it's not just a blunt physical attack.

I know, I'm aware that it was a poor display of blunt force, I was just using it to show how badly beaten Luffy eventually is from Lucci (which can be largely attributed to the amount of physical damage he received).

[Cymelion]

@i:

I know, I'm aware that it was a poor display of blunt force, I was just using it to show how badly beaten Luffy eventually is from Lucci (which can be largely attributed to the amount of physical damage he received).

Well it depends - CP9 have to be able to use certain forms - one of them being Tekkai - which is so similar to CoA its not funny - oddly enough the exact Haki that is required to effect DF users. This alone is not ironclad proof they had forms of it but well it is a way to allow the fight to be meaningful and retain Luffy's unique ability with blunt force.

[Ralt1c]

@Urouge:

I think Luffy is immune to blunt damage that has no seastone or haki involved. I also think Buggy is immune to cutting attacks regardless of what's involved. I have difficulties explaining the physics logic behind it.

Beyond that, I think Vanessa is right.

Also blunt attacks imbued with love can hurt Luffy, like Nami's of Garp's fist xD

[Bugs]

@Urouge:

I think Luffy is immune to blunt damage that has no seastone or haki involved. I also think Buggy is immune to cutting attacks regardless of what's involved. I have difficulties explaining the physics logic behind it.

Beyond that, I think Vanessa is right.

The bold part I don't quite agree with. There's one person that can remove Buggy's spiltman powers and that's Blackbeard because his darkness fruit removes all devil fruit powers from any user as long as he's touching them, as seen when he grabbed Ace, Luffy, and Whitebeard. Blackbeard grabs Buggy, Buggy's head get's cut off, bye-bye Buggy. Everything else I agree with.

[Cyclone_Baroness]

@Bugs:

The bold part I don't quite agree with. There's one person that can remove Buggy's spiltman powers and that's Blackbeard because his darkness fruit removes all devil fruit powers from any user as long as he's touching them, as seen when he grabbed Ace, Luffy, and Whitebeard. Blackbeard grabs Buggy, Buggy's head get's cut off, bye-bye Buggy. Everything else I agree with.

I thought that Blackbeard's fruit wasn't a power that nullifies, but one that absorbs. Like a black hole sort of thing. Might be how he was able to take Whitebeards power.

[Urouge]

@Bugs:

The bold part I don't quite agree with. There's one person that can remove Buggy's spiltman powers and that's Blackbeard because his darkness fruit removes all devil fruit powers from any user as long as he's touching them, as seen when he grabbed Ace, Luffy, and Whitebeard. Blackbeard grabs Buggy, Buggy's head get's cut off, bye-bye Buggy. Everything else I agree with.

Maybe so, but Blackbeard wouldn't try to cut him anyway so it's fairly irrelevant.

[Bugs]

@Cyclone_Baroness:

I thought that Blackbeard's fruit wasn't a power that nullifies, but one that absorbs. Like a black hole sort of thing. Might be how he was able to take Whitebeards power.

!

!

The above shows that Teach's power is a complete nullifier, if he grabs a fruit user, that user loses their fruit power. Ace stopped being fire, Luffy stopped being rubber, and Buggy would stop being immune to cutting and controlling his body parts. I debate on how he got Whitebeard's power. Mostly likely its his fruit, although to be honest, I don't discount the use of the same technology that is used to extract fruit powers and place into inanimate objects.

@Urouge: I agree.

[Cyclone_Baroness]

Ah gotcha. It had been a while since I read that part so I wasn't sure.

[Cymelion]

Do you think if Shanks ate a Logia fruit he could recreate his arm?

If not able to recreate the actual arm they could form it via the element though right - it's just it would be whatever the element is?

[I survived the buster call]

@Cymelion:

Do you think if Shanks ate a Logia fruit he could recreate his arm?

If not able to recreate the actual arm they could form it via the element though right - it's just it would be whatever the element is?

I dunno–the fruits don't seem to change the body as it stands--at least where scars are concerned (Luffy's scar exists from when he cut under his eye, yet until he got fisted, he never got another, which I always assumed was a feature of being rubber...)

[Ryuksgelus]

Logia have never been able to just form new body parts out of their elements human or elemental. Crocodile didn't remake his hand.

[I survived the buster call]

@Ryuksgelus:

Logia have never been able to just form new body parts out of their elements human or elemental. Crocodile didn't remake his hand.

Darnit I knew there was an example of someone with a limb unrepaired, and I couldn't think who it was, lol! Point to Ryuk.

[Urouge]

Croc just chooses to have the hook instead because it looks cooler. :ninja:

[Cymelion]

@I:

I dunno–the fruits don't seem to change the body as it stands--at least where scars are concerned (Luffy's scar exists from when he cut under his eye, yet until he got fisted, he never got another, which I always assumed was a feature of being rubber...)

Except for Alivida but hers wasn't a Logia.

Yeah the Croc is a prime example - just seems weird though you would think that they could in principle reform a missing limb - Especially since they can affect the clothing they wear with their powers.

[themick]

Some logias could possibly recreate an arm or hand if they chose to. However, it wouldnt be a truly functional hand. Aokiji could prolly make an ice arm if he wanted or needed too. But it wouldnt be able to pick things up and wouldnt have any range of motion.

Logias can for the most part create their elements and control it to some extent. But we havent seen a logia control the element with precision once released from the body.

I would say the best example of control would be Kizaru's light saber. But that never left his hand.

On second thought. Maybe smoker would have a shot? His smoke has been shown to look like it wraps people up or picks them up. But that may have been his body and not just smoke he created and shot out. Its been a while lol.

[Cyclone_Baroness]

@themick:

Some logias could possibly recreate an arm or hand if they chose to. However, it wouldnt be a truly functional hand. Aokiji could prolly make an ice arm if he wanted or needed too. But it wouldnt be able to pick things up and wouldnt have any range of motion.

Logias can for the most part create their elements and control it to some extent. But we havent seen a logia control the element with precision once released from the body.

I would say the best example of control would be Kizaru's light saber. But that never left his hand.

On second thought. Maybe smoker would have a shot? His smoke has been shown to look like it wraps people up or picks them up. But that may have been his body and not just smoke he created and shot out. Its been a while lol.

What about Eneru using lightning to create a giant warrior, and a dragon?

[themick]

@Cyclone_Baroness:

What about Eneru using lightning to create a giant warrior, and a dragon?

Yea and Akainu's Lava dog too.

They were just attacks tho. In different shapes. They arent extensions of the body. Plus they are intangible so wouldnt really work to form a limb. Also, the attacks werent really any different than any other attack. Just a different shape.

Take Akainu's Lava meteor fist thing. They were shaped like fists. But they didnt grab people and punch them or pull them around. It was just flying lava shaped like a fist. Same as all his other attacks.

[Czechmate]

@themick:

Take Akainu's Lava meteor fist thing. They were shaped like fists. But they didnt grab people and punch them or pull them around. It was just flying lava shaped like a fist. Same as all his other attacks.

Considering Akainu has complete control over magma, though, there's no reason to assume he can't do that.

[igetownd]

@Czechmate:

Considering Akainu has complete control over magma, though, there's no reason to assume he can't do that.

I'll have to disagree with this statement. No logia has controlled elemental shapes that aren't connected to their own body.

On another note, I would say proper Haki-imbued slicing attacks would hurt Buggy, but will not give physical injury. If we slow time down, we can see a sword attack will slice through Buggy, so the slicing action will not hurt Buggy. However, Buggy's body will still be in contact with the blade, and the Haki will take effect. However, if the Haki type isn't the kind to hurt Buggy, Buggy will not be hurt.

Similar for Luffy. If Luffy is hit by a Haki that Luffy is immune to, then Luffy will not be affected.

Despite Occam's Razor, I have to explain Haki-DF interaction this way. It is more nonsensical to me that Mihawk cannot use Haki so he could not hurt Buggy.

[Cyclone_Baroness]

@igetownd:

I'll have to disagree with this statement. No logia has controlled elemental shapes that aren't connected to their own body.

On another note, I would say proper Haki-imbued slicing attacks would hurt Buggy, but will not give physical injury. If we slow time down, we can see a sword attack will slice through Buggy, so the slicing action will not hurt Buggy. However, Buggy's body will still be in contact with the blade, and the Haki will take effect. However, if the Haki type isn't the kind to hurt Buggy, Buggy will not be hurt.

Similar for Luffy. If Luffy is hit by a Haki that Luffy is immune to, then Luffy will not be affected.

Despite Occam's Razor, I have to explain Haki-DF interaction this way. It is more nonsensical to me that Mihawk cannot use Haki so he could not hurt Buggy.

Couldn't Mihawk just hit him with the hilt of his sword? That's not a slicing attack. Or can Buggy just separate through anything?

What sort of Haki would Luffy be immune to? I would figure only Logia DFs would need special attacks to nullify/neutralize/halt, whatever is going on with their abilities. Paramecia's seem to be durable and tricky to deal with, but their power's aren't usually automatically invincible.

[flandrian15]

why are people thinking that Luffy, who is unaffected by any blunt attack, could get punched and hurt (or even killed for that matter) by haki while Buggy, who also has a paramecia, can't be sliced by a sword imbedded with Haki? It is basically the same thing. In Luffy's example, his defense will be bypassed by CoA and in Buggy's case it'll be the same. Keep in mind the entire sword is imbedded. If it touches Buggy and slices through him without him having split (Buggy does NOT dodge it in my example) than I am pretty sure, no matter how you might look at it, that his internal organs and whatever else he has inside his body will have suffered damage because the sword prevents him to split at the place it slices because of the CoA and if he can't split at that point at that very moment in that particular place he might die as well even though he could reform right after the sword touches him. It is the same as Luffy not being able to use his DF's natural defense because of CoA.

[Czechmate]

@flandrian15:

why are people thinking that Luffy, who is unaffected by any blunt attack, could get punched and hurt (or even killed for that matter) by haki while Buggy, who also has a paramecia, can't be sliced by a sword imbedded with Haki? It is basically the same thing. In Luffy's example, his defense will be bypassed by CoA and in Buggy's case it'll be the same. Keep in mind the entire sword is imbedded. If it touches Buggy and slices through him without him having split (Buggy does NOT dodge it in my example) than I am pretty sure, no matter how you might look at it, that his internal organs and whatever else he has inside his body will have suffered damage because the sword prevents him to split at the place it slices because of the CoA and if he can't split at that point at that very moment in that particular place he might die as well even though he could reform right after the sword touches him. It is the same as Luffy not being able to use his DF's natural defense because of CoA.

The Gomu Gomu no Mi doesn't prevent contact. Buggy's fruit splits so that no bladed edge can make contact with his body.

No contact equals no damage.

[igetownd]

@Cyclone_Baroness:

Couldn't Mihawk just hit him with the hilt of his sword? That's not a slicing attack. Or can Buggy just separate through anything?

What sort of Haki would Luffy be immune to? I would figure only Logia DFs would need special attacks to nullify/neutralize/halt, whatever is going on with their abilities. Paramecia's seem to be durable and tricky to deal with, but their power's aren't usually automatically invincible.

Buggy didn't get hit by Haki, so we never know. I said Mihawk has Haki, but I failed to realize that doesn't mean he can control it. And Mihawk could have in the end resorted to pounding him flat, but Buggy used a Muggy Bomb, which got reflected back.

Luffy can be hurt by Haki, period. No special mechanism needed.

[themick]

@Czechmate:

The Gomu Gomu no Mi doesn't prevent contact. Buggy's fruit splits so that no bladed edge can make contact with his body.

No contact equals no damage.

I find it strange that Logia's like the Pika Pika which are fundamentally intangible can be cut/stabbed/punched/bit/slapped/etc…..with haki. While buggy cant be cut with haki at all?

Taking this a step further. With training buggy could, theoreticaly, train to split at the slightest contact (like how logias cant be hit by normal attacks even when unaware). This would make even physical punches like luffys just turn into glancing blows. This would absorb alot of the power and give buggy quite a defense.

[Cyclone_Baroness]

Buggy is actually a Logia of the play dough variety.

[igetownd]

@Cyclone_Baroness:

Buggy is actually a Logia of the play dough variety.

That would make him quite difficult to deal with :blink: Mihawk would need a bakers hat and a rolling pin

[flandrian15]

The Gomu Gomu no Mi doesn't prevent contact. Buggy's fruit splits so that no bladed edge can make contact with his body.

No contact equals no damage.

Where was this stated?
From what I've seen Buggy's body gets sliced and is then split. So that means he is sliced in the first place. It's just that his body can naturally split and him being sliced has no affect at all. If the sword was imbedded with Haki however, the slice would prevent him from splitting naturally at that moment IMO and he would be hurt. The same as Luffy getting hurt from a blunt attack that normally wouldn't hurt him at all.
I really don't get why a lot of people think that even a logia, who can normally not be hit in the first place, can be sliced (we've seen Rayleigh do this in his fight with Kizaru), hit, hurt by Haki imbedded weaponry and Buggy can't… Why is he such a special case? Haki has no affect on him or what? Rayleigh stated that CoA is the only surefire way of fighting Devil Fruits and I don't remember him stating that it wouldn't work on the bara bara no mi.

That would make him quite difficult to deal with Mihawk would need a bakers hat and a rolling pin

Or a sword that can redirect Muggy balls would do the trick

[Cyclone_Baroness]

@igetownd:

That would make him quite difficult to deal with :blink: Mihawk would need a bakers hat and a rolling pin

Or at least a push mold to make him into spaghetti….Or leave him out in the sun too long so he crumbles up and can never remold again.

@ flandrian15: If Mihawk can angle his sword so a bullet just slides off of it I'm sure he could curve the Muggy ball back with just the right amount of adjustment.

[flandrian15]

he actually already did that during the war. Go see if you don't believe me. That was also the reason I brought it up.
Anyway, the Muggy ball it far too weak. It doesn't even kill Buggy so what the hell does he hope to accomplish with such a thing?

[Cyclone_Baroness]

@flandrian15:

he actually already did that during the war. Go see if you don't believe me. That was also the reason I brought it up.
Anyway, the Muggy ball it far too weak. It doesn't even kill Buggy so what the hell does he hope to accomplish with such a thing?

I don't disbelieve you lol. Buggy is comic relief. He was only vaguely a threat when they first encountered him, but he's just there for the lolz. He's not a strong character, he's just got random bouts of luck. And he's an opportunist. If he didn't have the DF he does he'd be dead 10 times over.

[Russbuspower]

I'm not sure about this, but I think that Coribou uses his logia of swamp to form his former crew out of it and his apparently late brother. But his fruit being a swamp logia doesn't make a lot of sense, but the whole crew looked exactly the same, if he did make those crewmembers, he is the only pirate that could recreate a body part if it was cut off by someone using haki.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Caribou* sorry Caribou is the devil fruit user and Coribou is his brother with no known powers

[Czechmate]

@Russbuspower:

I'm not sure about this, but I think that Coribou uses his logia of swamp to form his former crew out of it and his apparently late brother.

We don't know if Coribou is dead or not.

But his fruit being a swamp logia doesn't make a lot of sense,

?

Also why on earth would that make sense? Caribou wouldn't worry about a crew that was made out of "swamp" even if that even remotely made sense because he could reform them. There's absolutely no reason to believe he has that ability, or that anybody in his crew isn't a real person. >_>

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Not to mention the fact that he would have to be controlling each member of the crew at all times... That doesn't make sense at all.

[Russbuspower]

Valid point, but the odds or Caribou being dead are very high seeing as the multiple crewmembers all resembling Caribou exactly was most likely brought up by a devil fruit. And seeing as he was suck in the middle of the ocean, he would continue to sink and drown.

[Czechmate]

@Russbuspower:

Valid point, but the odds or Caribou being dead are very high seeing as the multiple crewmembers all resembling Caribou exactly was most likely brought up by a devil fruit. And seeing as he was suck in the middle of the ocean, he would continue to sink and drown.

Do you even read this manga?

Or my post?

Just because they look alike does not mean it's likely that Caribou "made" them out of his Devil Fruit powers. There's been no such examples of that except with Galdino's fruit, and even then what would the point of having a crew that you had to control yourself be?

And they floated up on air bubbles, so most likely they made it back up to the surfac. They didn't sink.

To recap: absolutely no reason to think Caribou's crew is made from his powers.

[Motoss]

@flandrian15:

Where was this stated?
From what I've seen Buggy's body gets sliced and is then split.

What makes you think this? It has been shown pretty much every time Buggy has appeared that he can split his body at will. He doesn't need to get sliced to split, he does it all the time for convenience.

[Ryuksgelus]

@Czechmate:

Do you even read this manga?

Or my post?

Just because they look alike does not mean it's likely that Caribou "made" them out of his Devil Fruit powers. There's been no such examples of that except with Galdino's fruit, and even then what would the point of having a crew that you had to control yourself be?

And they floated up on air bubbles, so most likely they made it back up to the surfac. They didn't sink.

To recap: absolutely no reason to think Caribou's crew is made from his powers.

Them looking very much like Caribou is a very good reason to assume he made them. Its just as likely as he found a bunch of dudes who all look similar and decide to impersonate him. Actually more so because that is boring and stupid but could still be true. Nothing wrong with thinking there is more to it than that.

[brennen.exe]

@Urouge:

Gotta say I disagree with you this time, bren, especially given that arrow scene. It seems to me that it works the same as homing devices in pretty much any video game. Basically toss it up in the air, give it a second to lock into its target, then it flies off on its own at full speed. He threw the axe with a good amount of force, but those arrows didn't even go much above his head.

Well I did say I am less confident in my theory now, given the scene, but I'm still suspicious. Take the letters Shirahoshi was receiving, for example. Did they come speeding at her face? She said it "followed" her around. The axe tore through the door of Shirahoshi's room, but other weapons were stuck to the door on the outside of it. Why didn't those go through? My mistake, the door was opened somehow. That slipped my mind as well. Still, the axe Luffy barely had time to react to at the Sea Forest definitely seemed faster than the arrows chasing Hachi, and at the same time he easily kicked that one away while the one in Shirahoshi's room required considerable power from him to push it away. These are technical questions though, and for a fictional power in a fictional series where the author is at times inconsistent with the depiction of certain abilities. I'll concede my understanding of his power is likely wrong for now.

[Urouge]

Because when the axe came the door was open. When those other weapons came the door was most likely closed considering all the precautionary measures in place.

The full speed of a piece of paper isn't very fast. Nor is it very dangerous.