^ Can't remember where exactly, but they dismissed the concept of a pilot pig as "childish". Like I said, terrible taste.
Studio Ghibli thread
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That's pretty funny considering the underlying theme of Porco Rosso was actually more mature than any other Miyazaki film to date. heh.
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So, same time as last week then?
Yep. Same time, but wanted to remind people not from the U.S that we recently started daylights savings time, so if you watched last time, it will be an hour earlier for you.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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@tatermoog
On the contrary, Muska is one of the most popular villain of all time in anime or manga, in Japan.
There are countless AAs and quotes of Muska seen in every corner of the otakudom, rivaling Giren Zabi of Zeon.…but...but how?
It becomes more obvious by the day that I just don't understand Japanese fandom and/or anything.
I did stumble across this while doing some side research for my post: http://en.rocketnews24.com/2012/11/28/mystery-donor-colonel-muska-leaves-japanese-orphanage-with-stacks-of-goodies/
Hang in there, Kierkegaard.
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what version are we streaming?
also, what time zone? is that 3pm east texas?
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also, someone mentioned "from up on poppy hill"found a place in toronto to see it for anyone in my area.
http://tiff.net/filmsandschedules/tiffbelllightbox/2013/2330000493
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I'd be interested in the stream as well. Can you guys post the link half an hour before the start or so?
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - _Sun Tzu, The Art Of War
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! I was really loving this movie until Muska arrived at Laputa and started his quest of taking over the world and killing everybody just because why the hell not. I only felt indifference when he got blind
! A shame, the first two thirds of the movie were really fantastic. -
what version are we streaming?
also, what time zone? is that 3pm east texas?
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also, someone mentioned "from up on poppy hill"found a place in toronto to see it for anyone in my area.
http://tiff.net/filmsandschedules/tiffbelllightbox/2013/2330000493
3 pm EST.
Japanese.. unless people want english.
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…but...but how?
It becomes more obvious by the day that I just don't understand Japanese fandom and/or anything.
I did stumble across this while doing some side research for my post: http://en.rocketnews24.com/2012/11/28/mystery-donor-colonel-muska-leaves-japanese-orphanage-with-stacks-of-goodies/
Ehh It's just a thing.
The aforementioned Giren Zabi is one of those hilariously "evil" villain that's fun to quote that just happens to be in an iconic series. Kind of the same deal. Although I've always associated Muska with being a really cool kind of shallow villain, so maybe I've just bought into it myself.
English fans have their own versions of guys like this. i.e. Shredder or something
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Gihren was so over the top that even his douchebag usurper dad called him Hitler.
As for Laputa,I did see it back as akid but I barely remember it,so I gotta see it properly this time.
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^ Not only that, he also took it as a compliment.
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I'd be interested in the stream as well. Can you guys post the link half an hour before the start or so?
Should be on in half an hour, courtesy of Galaxy9000: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/Galaxy9000
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it is half an hour now. a bit past actually. where is it? I see nothing
it seems i must be more patient -
Stream is up now.
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Tried using the stream. Worked for me for a minute, but didn't last. Oh well. I watched the movie on Thursday anyway.
My take on the movie (spoilers ahoy)
[hide]What an opening. The airships, sky pirates, some gangsters, lots of combat, a girl escaping, and then falling to her death. All in the first couple of minutes. Its not quite as mood setting and evocative as the opening to Nausicaa, but it does set the tone for an adventurous romp pretty well.I love the sketchbookey opening credits sequence, like the mural from Nausicaa but… different. All the flying shops are just great... but I kinda wish they didn't blow the reveal of the giant flying islands and castles right off the bat like that, it kind of destroys any mystery of if Laputa can exist... but I guess it shows off all the flying stuff the world has to offer.
Great core by Joe Hisashi as always, though I get a really weird feeling having been playing Nino Kuni so much lately. And the image of the girl falling, then having her fall corrected is pretty much the image of the whole movie. I also love that the movie wastes no time in putting the two leads together. Pazu catching her and then her suddenly becoming heavy is just such a great little bit. "Boss, a girl fell from the sky!" So matter of fact.
The entire tumpet scene with the flying birds, and then the feeding of the bird is wonderful, and then Pazu jumping off the building. Pazu and Sheeta are just so fun and cute right off the bat. Really, the entire first 15 minutes of the film is great imagry and such, and Iif I keep talking about every scene I'll be here all day.
Something that strikes me that never did before, Pazu's desire to prove his dad wasn't lying about the island in the sky. Its overall such a minor point, but might it have inspired Oda when doing the Norland plot and Skypiea? Pazu's claims are a little less crazy though, given that he has a photo and the opening credits showed the place pretty blatantly.
I love how readily the adults just accept "They're pirates! They're chasing her!" For the fist fighting or the mother telling them to run or the train ride or the old miner... Thats a thing that carries into a lot of the Miyazaki films, the adults believe things so readily, showing faith and trust in the kids, regardless of how outlandish or weird they might be. And then he immediatley gets into a brawl, complete wtht he shirt ripping button popping scene thats possibly my favorite little moment in the film. (I'm a little dissapointed the original dialogue doesn't ave my favorite line... "do the thing where you're buttons fly off!" Its just so... on the nose and over the top. indicating its a regular thing.)
Which, yeah. my first time watching Laputa subtitled. The differences are interesting. the kids sounding much MUCH younger threw me off a bit... I'm just so used to them as young teens rather than, well, children. But there was a lot more acting and range and emotion in them. I preferred the japanese voice acting... but there was just a lot more silence and lack of vocal gags and ambient noises (and 40 extra minutes of music) than I was used to in the background. Not bad in any way that its quieter, just... different.
Love the whole car/train chase. Not as crazy as the one in cagliostro, but still fun.
I don't think anything need be said about how great the animation, creativity of the designs, the flying stuff, or the world building is. That's a ghibli standard, and its all top notch here.
The entire thing with the sky robots... its kind of what Miyazaki was doing with the god soldiers in the Nausicaa movie, but didn't quite get around to doing properly... that he then used fully in the actual manga. (With the dead one rising and protecting and all.) The whole escape sequence is pretty damn awesome and intimidating.
I love the pirates. They're just great in every scene they're in once they stop being the badguys.
The entire sequence at night while Pazu's on watch, and Sheeta hides under the pancho with him is just so super sweet, especially when they're talking nice and overheard on the intercom. I just love that entire sequence, especially the clouds at both sunset and at night. Probably my favorite bit in the whole movie. Its a non-scene, but I like it.
Everything when they get onto Laputa is quite pretty and serene and beautiful. Muska then completel disregarding all that beauty in his lust for power is a great juxtaposition.
Some remaining action and the villain goes crazy at the last minute, but unlike Tatermoog I don't think the ending is rushed or forced, since its set up pretty far in advance, and Pazu and Sheeta's sacrificial spell reciting moments together (and that MUSIC!) feels far far truer and more set up in advance than Nausicaa's deus ex machina. though I guess Muska's origin is a little out of no where and the army is in general dealt with a little easily.
Muska's a good villain in that he's got some menace and crazy to him, and he's willing to shoot and threaten and actually connect with his targets... he mostly lacks because he's in the background and doens't have the entire film to build as a threat, he's a bit of a latecomer. The count from Cagliostro is very similar but gets the full film, so he's a bit better as a result.[/hide]
This is the first time I've watched this movie in a while, and I loved it all over again. Pazu and Sheeta are both great and imminently likeable, the secondary characters are all fun, and the set pieces are generally memorable and over the top, while the moments of quiet beauty are… quiet and beautiful. It succeeds in a lot of places where Nausicaa didn't (But Nausicaa wasn't trying to do the same things) and is a lot easier to watch, and way more FUN, with more likeable characters. Plus the animation and colors are great throughout... from another studio this could easily be one of my favorite movies... its telling that the crew has done several others that I like even MORE that there's some major talent at work there.
I am also struck more and more by the similarities Nadia: Secret of Blue Water shares, and it came just a couple years later. The mechanically inclined kid, the mysterious princess with the magical jewel, the band of thieves with hearts of gold, the evil orginization, the ancient civilization... it shares a lot... mostly its just longer and is underwater instead of in the air. (And as fun as the pirates are, they just don't match up to the greatness that is Grandis, Samson and Hanson... but they had a whole series to develop rather than background in a 2 hour movie. On the other hand, no Marie. ) I may have to watch that again soon, its been a while.
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@RobbyBevard:
I am also struck more and more by the similarities Nadia: Secret of Blue Water shares, and it came just a couple years later. The mechanically inclined kid, the mysterious princess with the magical jewel, the band of thieves with hearts of gold, the evil orginization, the ancient civilization… it shares a lot... mostly its just longer and is underwater instead of in the air. (And as fun as the pirates are, they just don't match up to the greatness that is Grandis, Samson and Hanson... but they had a whole series to develop rather than background in a 2 hour movie. On the other hand, no Marie. ) I may have to watch that again soon, its been a while.
Not a coincidence, Robby. Laputa and Nadia comes from the same project.
See, Miyazaki was originally working on a follow up to Future Boy Conan at NHK, when the project was canned.
He took the basic plot of the project with him, and made the movie Laputa, Castle in the Sky.But the frame of the project was left behind at NHK, who then hired Anno who reconstructed it to create Nadia.
Basically almost identical situation to Bablyon 5 and Deep Space 9
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I knew Miyazaki worked on some of the early concept stuff for Blue Water, and I always felt the commonalities to Miyazaki in tone and theme… but just how MUCH overlap there was is only really striking me right now with heavy analysis and attention to the chronological order, timeline and history on my mind.
It's one thing to know in your head that "at some point Miyazaki worked on this movie and at some point he helped on the series', especially when you first see Nadia in 1999 and Laputa in 2005... it's another to watch it and be thinking "This hit in 1986, folowed by X... and Nadia was 1990..." I suppose its much easier when you actually live in Japan and saw those things released in order. (Part of the reason we're doing this ongoing marathon is order.)
I was NOT aware that they were actually downright the same project originally though.
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@RobbyBevard:
! The entire tumpet scene with the flying birds, and then the feeding of the bird is wonderful, and then Pazu jumping off the building. Pazu and Sheeta are just so fun and cute right off the bat. Really, the entire first 15 minutes of the film is great imagry and such, and Iif I keep talking about every scene I'll be here all day.
The trumpet scene is great for establishing a scene, but I always laugh at how long it lasts.
! I love how readily the adults just accept "They're pirates! They're chasing her!" For the fist fighting or the mother telling them to run or the train ride or the old miner… Thats a thing that carries into a lot of the Miyazaki films, the adults believe things so readily, showing faith and trust in the kids, regardless of how outlandish or weird they might be. And then he immediatley gets into a brawl, complete wtht he shirt ripping button popping scene thats possibly my favorite little moment in the film. (I'm a little dissapointed the original dialogue doesn't ave my favorite line... "do the thing where you're buttons fly off!" Its just so... on the nose and over the top. indicating its a regular thing.)
Yeah, it's a shame that adults being so understanding with children–in this and especially in Totoro–is so at odds with most movies that it seems odd. Think you've nailed one of Miyazaki's best traits here.
! Some remaining action and the villain goes crazy at the last minute, but unlike Tatermoog I don't think the ending is rushed or forced, since its set up pretty far in advance, and Pazu and Sheeta's sacrificial spell reciting moments together (and that MUSIC!) feels far far truer and more set up in advance than Nausicaa's deus ex machina. though I guess Muska's origin is a little out of no where and the army is in general dealt with a little easily.
! Muska's a good villain in that he's got some menace and crazy to him, and he's willing to shoot and threaten and actually connect with his targets… he mostly lacks because he's in the background and doens't have the entire film to build as a threat, he's a bit of a latecomer. The count from Cagliostro is very similar but gets the full film, so he's a bit better as a result.Ever since the thought about endings popped in my head last week, I'm probably looking a bit hard for problems. It's perfectly acceptable.
I remain a bit shocked about Muska's popularity, though Holy's explanation helped a bit.
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The trumpet part doesn't last long at all though. I guess maybe with repeat regular viewings it might feel longer or more unneeded, but I feel it's just right.
And the mining scene is to provide a break between set pieces, a moment to breathe, while helping set up teh magical super rock is a naturally occuring thing that affects other magical super rocks… its just really rare and special. ANd show of Miyazaki's love of shiny sparkly rocks that would carry over at length onto Whisper of the Heart. Sometimes stopping for a moment of beauty and wonder is just that.
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I just always pictured some guy with a hangover down in the village, startled awake by the first note, then cursing as each phrase of the trumpet song continues to another. But thus is my sense of humor.
[edit]Additional thought on ending after watching livestream:
! One problem I have with it is that for such a pleasant movie where there's really been little to no death, I'm not a huge fan of Muska mass-murdering his troops like he did. It just feels really out of place.
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I know muska's character didn't have a lot of development, but i thought he was really menacing. That guy scared the pajeezes out of me. wholey crap.
and, omg, I love nadia, so that whole tidbit is awesome. I need to go watch it again. I love the Grandis Gang. There is a difference in Nadia and Sheeska. Nadia felt more useless and bitchy to me at times, where as Sheeska's an angel.
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Also, Laputa?
It's that pivotal moment.
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La la lalalala lalalala
What have I done
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Hmm, i really have to catch up now watching both Nausicaä and Laputa, what is on the plan next week?
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La la lalalala lalalala
What have I done
Trivia
The Famiom (NES) version of Galaxian has several hidden BGM in the ROM
It involved hitting the reset button like forty times while holding A+B on the 2nd controller, but it was a real easteregg, not a hoax. I had the ROM.Anyways, one of the song on there was the La-lalala-lala la-lalalala from Nausicaa. LOL.
EDIT: Here, someone did it on the emulator
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The Nausicaa requiem in 8 bit is… something else.
Hmm, i really have to catch up now watching both Nausicaä and Laputa, what is on the plan next week?
Chronological order.
Next week is Grave of the Fireflies, then the week after is Totoro.
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that was awesomely nostalgic. I love chiptune.
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Grave of the Fireflies
Streaming at 3:00 Saturday: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/Galaxy9000 (thanks Galaxy 9000)
Running site:http://anilinkz.com/grave-of-the-fireflies
http://www.animeflavor.com/node/23645
Torrent: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/5664076/Studio_Ghibli_Collection_[jap-eng_audio]eng-sub[Mkv]
Amazon:http://www.amazon.com/Grave-Fireflies-Isao-Takahata/dp/B006LLY8LY/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1363958161&sr=1-2&keywords=grave+of+the+firefliesGrave of the Fireflies was released in 1988, written and directed by Isao Takahata, and with music by Michio Mamiya.
It is based on the 1967 semi-autobiographical novel of the same name by Akiyuki Nosaka. It was released the same time as My Neighbor Totoro, and they were in fact double billed and run together, on the theory that "more school children will go to see Totoro, because fireflies is an educational film."
Given that GotF is considered one of the most depressing anime ever, while Totoro is one of the most lighthearted and innocent… there's a bit of a mood whiplash there.
This one is well known as a tear jerker folks. You're allowed to skip it if you really want or need to... but it, along with Bare Foot Gen, are movies you should see at least once at some point.
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Oh man, the cryfest is gonna begin
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Stay strong, Ghibli watchers.
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@RobbyBevard:
It was released the same time as My Neighbor Totoro, and they were in fact double billed and run together,
That is just fucking cruel.
'Aw this film is so heart warming, I feel so warm and fuzzy inside, I wonder what the next movie will be….oh God I am so depressed, war is hell!'
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I think it was actually the other way around, with the war film first and THEN Totoro, but I could easily be wrong. Someone that lived there at the time would know better.
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It's Fireflies -> Totoro, but it really didn't matter.
Theaters back then didn't work the same way as now, it was more of "get in and have a seat, leave whenever you want to".
So the theater that showed this two movies kept running them one after another back to back, and which ones you saw first was entirely up to the timing of when you entered the theater.Fireflies -> Totoro -> Fireflies -> Totoro -> Fireflies -> Totoro, and on and on. You could be seating any time of the day.
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I really like this film. It is sad. really sad, but it also has a bitter sweetness to it. I like that the two chose their freedom and happiness, rather than to stay with their aunt and miserable. Despite all their hardships and being in the middle of a war, for a brief time, they were very happy living together. That little scene with Setsoku playing by the lake side while waiting for her brother. It's priceless.
Well, I'm working 1-9 tomorrow, so I guess I'll turn it on tonight before bed here. Enjoy the stream tomorrow guys.
ooh. also, who's seen the live action one? raises hand
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Just posting to remind that the stream will start in 15 minutes.
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Not much to say about this one.
My anime club watched this in 1999 or 2000, somewhere thereabout. While not nearly as scarring as End of Eva was, it was still kind of a mood killer for the day, I don't know who had the bright idea of scheduling it first thing at the start of the day. (We typically did movie first, then a bunch of episodes of shows.) Following the movie up with the lightest, fluffiest most cracktrastic stuff possibly, including Kodomo No Omocha (Child's Toy) and Tenshi Ni Narumon (I'm Gonna Be An Angel) just… didn't help. it was a terrible choice to start the meeting with... but probably would have sucked to end it with too.
I felt after seeing it "Yeah, that was good... but I don't need to see it again." And, 13 years later, I watched it again, and I feel largely the same about it. Oddly, despite its infamy as a huge tear jerker, it didn't get to me the first time or just now. I think it's because of the opening.
! The opening sequence shows the brother dying, alone. And then the rest of the movie it keeps cutting back to the red lit ghost version of him and his sister reflecting on things. This does two things. First, it prevents you from having any hope at all of them surviving. But, at the same time… it prepares you for the inevitable, you know what's coming (even beyond the infamy as a tearjerker tragedy) and so it doesn't hit quite as hard or out of the blue... because the entire movie carries a sense of meloncholy with it.
! Even the happy parts aren't very happy, however cute Setsuko may be while playing. (And they succeeded at making her adorable, the voice being a key part of that.) But... there's just a permanent looming "things are going to get worse" feeling in the air. Their mother dying and leaving them alone seems inevitable, as is their father not surviving either. I realize its my second time watching it, but I didn't really remember any details. Its just all sort of "well of course the movie is going to tug the emotions of her dying... but then being okay... so that it can hurt more later."
! It just sort of keeps stacking it on with no relief to the point it stops being affecting and you just become numb to it. Its just the two main characters, you know they're both going to die, and well... that's it.
! I dunno. The sheer inevitability of it all from the opening is a bit of a mixed blessing. The upside is, after the sister dies, the movie doesn't then wallow around following the brother in misery for his last weeks and really try to punch you in the gut, it just sort of ends there, where it was inevitably leading given the ending.
! Mostly its sad and tragic because you know it happened for real. A lot. And that's the part that hurts and makes you reflectful.
! The animation and backgrounds looked great, and the music was perfectly appropriate of course, and all the scenes with the fireflies look great, but that's all really, really secondary when it comes to a film like this.
! Its an important movie to see once just to see it. Seeing it a second time, even this much later, was wholly unneeded. I think Barefoot Gen is much better all around, because it has some hope and joy in it, and doesn't just force the depression on you from the outset... but I'm not going to assume everyone here has seen that film, so I won't go into it at length.
! So... yeah. The movie is sad, but I think its so emotionally manipulative and cheap about it that... it doesn't hit or tug at the heart strings or feel sincere to me the way its intended to. It's just sort of... depressing viewing for the sake of it. It sets that tone very well, but I just... don't know why they wanted to make this film. Why JUST the looming sadness with NO positives or hope at all?I can't imagine this is anyone's favorite Ghibli film, and I imagine most people don't watch it more than once. Like barefoot Gen and Schindler's List. It's well done, and important, but at the same time… really doesn't demand revisiting.
Well.... we'll cleanse this with Totoro next week.
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never even heard of barefoot gen.
I didn't realize how many times the ghosts came up in the film. Also, It's really blatant when you see the little one is sad and upset, but the brother; the brother is so strong and so good at holding it all in. his struggles are really suttle and you really have to observe and read him to know what he's feeling.I cried. again. probably seen this movie 6-8 times or so. Still love it. I just love those wonderful kids.
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[apologies to captain usopp for the following, respect your opinion, but have wildly differing feelings on the movie]
Stick-in-the-mud time:
I kept trying to watch this movie again. I'd start it, watch five minutes, then turn it back off. And today, I finally just gave up.
I consider it to be a bad movie. It's sad, sure. Every single frame of the film, from the opening with the ghosts, seems intended to smack you in the nose with a rolled-up newspaper with how sad it is. The children's journey is a travelogue of atrocity, with any hopeful/happy moments primarily there to make the next sad moment have more impact. In truth, for as sad as the movie is, I have no real emotional reaction because I can see the strings where the film's puppeteers are trying to manipulate my emotions. I realize this is similar to what robby said above, but I have the exact same reaction.
I'm just not sure what the point of any of it is. It functions at a basic level as an anti-war film, but it isn't really an effective one to me, and Takahata has emphatically spoken against this viewpoint. It doesn't really have any triumph of the human condition. It's just an empty hour-and-a-half that is determined to make me feel sad for events that naturally make me sad in the first place.
If anything, I get a bit offended at movies like this. It seems as if Takahata's main intention is to point out that World War II–and specifically the fire-bombings and their aftermath--were tragedies, and I feel a bit insulted whenever someone seems that people are incapable of discerning the tragedy of events on their own. It's...eh...it's just very hard to express.
Please, Totoro, hurry up and make everything better.
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The other thing that occurs to me is that… most of the tragedy isn't even the result of the fire bombings, but just because the brother is an idiot. He was young, I get that, and they lost their mother to war, but...
Look kid, I know you were annoyed about your Aunt bitching at you to get a job... but maybe when you ran out of food and were starving and resorting to theft and had a horrible rash and couldn't get any more rations from the government and your little sister came down with a case of the terminally ill, maaaybe you should have stopped with the ego and gone back.
Sure, an outdoors adventure on your own for a couple days is cool an all, but... come on! Once you're at the point of being a thief and not doing anything for anyone but yourself, you're hard to like. Plus, it seemed that, while food was scarce and air raids could happen at any time, the situation wasn't that bad in town and things were operating about as normal and like you could have found something, anything, to do and be productive..
I dunno. Maybe if the movie hadn't started with them dying, or if the tragedies hadn't largely been self-inflicted, were there SOME room for hope or whatnot? I dunno. It was just... no.
Barefoot Gen on the other hand, spends the first half hour of the film before the bombing. You get to know the kid and his family and come to like them, and then the bombs hit. He gets to have an unfortunate sad farewell to them, (whereas fireflies the mom is unconscious) but then he moves on, tries to be happy, finds a new little brother, has general decent times after the bomb, joins other survivors, helps out, and works through what is now a radioactive wasteland towards the best he can. He lives through the hard stuff (given that its autobiographical, not a surprise) and gets better. You feel bad for him, but triumph and he's likeable.
After I saw Barefoot Gen for the first time 14 years ago, I wasn't left with the impression of "that was a sad movie." I was left with "holy geez. THAT'S the other side of the Hiroshima bombings? Our propoganda is lies. "Save lives in the long run" or not, we were in the wrong and that was a bad thing!" It completely changed my perspective on the event and those affected by it and I made an attempt to show it to others. (I've only seen Gen again one other time myself since tho.)
Fireflies? Just left with "well, that was manipulative and sad. What was the point?" I don't know any more about the bombings or care about those affected. Its something that happened, but my stance is still pretty much the same. "Well, that happened at some point."
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@RobbyBevard:
The other thing that occurs to me is that… most of the tragedy isn't even the result of the fire bombings, but just because the brother is an idiot. He was young, I get that, and they lost their mother to war, but...
Look kid, I know you were annoyed about your Aunt bitching at you to get a job... but maybe when you ran out of food and were starving and resorting to theft and had a horrible rash and couldn't get any more rations from the government and your little sister came down with a case of the terminally ill, maaaybe you should have stopped with the ego and gone back.
Sure, an outdoors adventure on your own for a couple days is cool an all, but... come on! Once you're at the point of being a thief and not doing anything for anyone but yourself, you're hard to like. Plus, it seemed that, while food was scarce and air raids could happen at any time, the situation wasn't that bad in town and things were operating about as normal and like you could have found something, anything, to do and be productive..
But, you see, to me, this was in large part the 'point' of the movie. It never really struck me as being about the tragedy of war, at least not as its major focus. Obviously the war, and the bombings, set the backdrop for the film, and are the first major thing to set the events that follow in motion. However, I think, just as you rightly say, that the real tragedy of the children's untimely death comes about due to the brother's own pride. I think he's intentionally portrayed as deeply flawed; he of course cares deeply about his younger sister, yet it's his own pride and unwillingness to accept the conditions of living with his aunt that ultimately leads to her death. You seem to view it as meant to take a stand against the horrors of war, but I think it is considerably better viewed a tragedy of character. Nobody in the film is ever portrayed as 'evil', and yet the actions they take nevertheless lead to such a horrible result.
As to your and Moog's other main objection to the film – namely, that it fails to have an impact on you because of how clearly you can see that it is attempting to -- I suppose I'll simply respectfully disagree, as that really seems to be a matter of taste. I will say, however, that it does strike me as just a little bit odd. I mean, I feel it would be akin to being negative about a horror film because it was obviously meant to scare you; of course it would be trying to scare you, that's the entire point. It's not that I disagree that GotF is clearly designed to manipulate my emotions and metaphorically punch me in the gut, but so what? That's what it sets out to do, and so I let it, and I feel it does a good job of it.
Again, difference of opinion, and I respect that, but there's where I stand on it.
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if a movie wants to make me cry, it can make me cry, happens all the time.
Just something about how heavyhanded and blatantly manipulative Fireflies was about it that puts me off. But I can see the tragedy of character thing, rather than tragedy of war. Very solid points.
Anyway, good to see you in here panda bear! Stick around for the upcoming films! I'd love to see your takes on some of the other stuff.
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@Panda:
But, you see, to me, this was in large part the 'point' of the movie. It never really struck me as being about the tragedy of war, at least not as its major focus. Obviously the war, and the bombings, set the backdrop for the film, and are the first major thing to set the events that follow in motion. However, I think, just as you rightly say, that the real tragedy of the children's untimely death comes about due to the brother's own pride. I think he's intentionally portrayed as deeply flawed; he of course cares deeply about his younger sister, yet it's his own pride and unwillingness to accept the conditions of living with his aunt that ultimately leads to her death. You seem to view it as meant to take a stand against the horrors of war, but I think it is considerably better viewed a tragedy of character. Nobody in the film is ever portrayed as 'evil', and yet the actions they take nevertheless lead to such a horrible result.
Y'know what, that is a much better way of viewing the film as a whole. Not going to be enough to make me like it, probably, but certainly gives me a different respect for it.
As to your and Moog's other main objection to the film – namely, that it fails to have an impact on you because of how clearly you can see that it is attempting to -- I suppose I'll simply respectfully disagree, as that really seems to be a matter of taste. I will say, however, that it does strike me as just a little bit odd. I mean, I feel it would be akin to being negative about a horror film because it was obviously meant to scare you; of course it would be trying to scare you, that's the entire point. It's not that I disagree that GotF is clearly designed to manipulate my emotions and metaphorically punch me in the gut, but so what? That's what it sets out to do, and so I let it, and I feel it does a good job of it.
Again, difference of opinion, and I respect that, but there's where I stand on it.
Extremely well put.
Grave of the Fireflies is one of those movies that I dislike despite it being almost universally well-received. Once upon a time, I would have regarded that as yet another sign that everyone's stupid but me, because I'm so obviously amazing. After growing up a bit (and realizing maybe Rush isn't the deepest band on Earth), I've pretty much decided that you're right and it is a matter of taste in this case.
The question of the point where a movie goes from "emotional impact" to "manipulative" is pretty highly subjective, and I haven't quite gotten a handle on it. I'm not entirely sure why some movies and television shows can hit me right in my feelings–Wolf Children recently, but even lighter fare like How to Train Your Dragon or Friday Night Lights–and others feel too on the nose for me to have any reaction at all. There's a certain relentless nature to Grave's sadness that bothers me–as others have pointed out earlier, there's never any sense that any good is going to come out of this situation, so each new event seems primarily intended to further the tragedy. To go back to your analogy, the best horror movies aren't the ones that are constantly trying to scare you, they're the ones that establish an environment/theme that in itself is unsettling which then makes the "jump scenes" or psychological thrills all the more jarring. I don't resent Psycho for being a very frightening movie at the end, but at the same time, I'm bored watching most thrill-a-minute slasher flicks.
Hang in there, Kierkegaard. -
There's a certain relentless nature to Grave's sadness that bothers me–as others have pointed out earlier, there's never any sense that any good is going to come out of this situation, so each new event seems primarily intended to further the tragedy. To go back to your analogy, the best horror movies aren't the ones that are constantly trying to scare you, they're the ones that establish an environment/theme that in itself is unsettling which then makes the "jump scenes" or psychological thrills all the more jarring. I don't resent Psycho for being a very frightening movie at the end, but at the same time, I'm bored watching most thrill-a-minute slasher flicks.
Now see, this I can much more get behind as an objection to the movie. Still not one I agree with, mind, but again, that's simply a matter of opinion. Like you say, if something constantly, relentlessly attempts to evoke the same emotional reaction, the result is invariably going to be simply becoming deadened to that. Speaking more generally, if someone went through their lives never having any moment when they were sad, they wouldn't really be able to appreciate what it means to be happy. The same idea applies with a horror film, as you say; and the same idea applies with GotF.
As I say, though, I still disagree that Grave falls into this trap – although I can definitely see why you think it does, and you're hardly the first person I've seen express that opinion, so I wouldn't worry about standing alone against the masses -- and I'll tell you why. To me, there are enough moments when the children seem to be happy, where things seem to be going even vaguely well for them, to make the admittedly near-constant times when things go poorly have the appropriate impact. Admittedly, just as you say, there's a sort of pall over even the 'happier' parts of the movie, because we are shown from the very beginning how things will end, but I feel that actually works in the movie's favor, in a way.
Take the children running away, what I feel to probably be the focal point of the movie. Without knowing their fate, I feel it's possible a viewer might actually cheer this on. After all, when it comes down to it, for all that they were being cared and provided for, they were miserable living with their aunt, and here they were taking matters into their own hands to do something about it. In that sense, they were doing the right thing: they were simply trying to find some happiness in their lives, to make them worth living, rather than meekly accept an existence where their continued life came at the cost of any joy in it. In that sense, I cannot find it in myself to judge their decision as 'wrong'; which just causes the knife to be twisted in the wound all the harder with the way the movie is set up. I say what they do isn't wrong -- shouldn't be wrong -- and yet it gets both of them killed, and I am forced to recognize this fact even as the events unfold.
The movie is, I think, above anything else, bleak. Rather than anything so relatively easy to deal with, emotionally, as the tragedy of war, it is about the relentless, uncaring, unfair way in which life can sometimes unfold. I think simply finding it 'too much', and in the end having no real emotional response to it at all, is a perfectly natural reaction. I'm in no way trying to change your opinion, or call it into question; but I hope I've explained at least a little why I feel it isn't a bad movie. I think it's actually quite good in terms of what it sets out to do, which simply happens, quite understandably, to not be something for everyone.
@RobbyBevard:
Anyway, good to see you in here panda bear! Stick around for the upcoming films! I'd love to see your takes on some of the other stuff.
Thanks! I've actually been following along with this thread since the first movie, but I didn't really feel I had anything to add with Nausicaa that others hadn't already said, and I ended up missing Laputa. I'll certainly be continuing to follow along and try to add my thoughts as they come. Thanks for coming up with this, too! I haven't seen many of these movies in quite some time, and some I've never seen at all, so it's definitely fun to go through them like this.
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Too wordy.
Grave made me cry like a little girl who lost her teddy bear, so I dunno what y'all are talking about.
Didn't get a clear "anti-war" message, just more of "life sucks and some people are assholes in desperate times". -
Too wordy.
Grave made me cry like a little girl who lost her teddy bear, so I dunno what y'all are talking about.
Didn't get a clear "anti-war" message, just more of "life sucks and some people are assholes in desperate times".Classic Aohige. Love it.
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Too wordy.
Grave made me cry like a little girl who lost her teddy bear, so I dunno what y'all are talking about.
Didn't get a clear "anti-war" message, just more of "life sucks and some people are assholes in desperate times".But… two bears talking is really fascinating to watch!
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My Neighbor Totoro
Streaming at 3:00 Saturday: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/Galaxy9000 (thanks Galaxy 9000)
Running site:http://anilinkz.com/my-neighbour-totoro
http://www.animeflavor.com/node/2436
Torrent: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/5664076/Studio_Ghibli_Collection_[jap-eng_audio]eng-sub[Mkv]
Amazon:http://www.amazon.com/My-Neighbor-Totoro-Mark-Henley/dp/B002ZTQV8Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364524803&sr=8-1&keywords=totoroMy Neighbor Totoro was released in 1988, (as a double feature with Grave of the Fireflies) written and directed by Hayao Miyazaki, and with music by Joe Hisashi as always.
The titular character Totoro has gone on to become the most recognizable creation of Studio Ghibli, to the point it became their mascot and part of the logo. Years later Miyazaki would be challenged to create another character as iconic as Totoro, which would lead to Ponyo.
Totoro has made cameo appearances in multiple Studio Ghibli films, including Pom Poko, Kiki's Delivery Service, and Whisper of the Heart. , as well as the game Nino Kuni, and Pixar's Toy Story 3, the Imagination land episode of South Park (And a paordy scene with Cthulhu) Samurai Jack, and more.
The susuwatari, or "soot sprites", appear in the 2001's Spirited Away, and the opening song is referenced in 2008's Ponyo
Totoro has been dubbed into English twice, once by Streamline, then again years later by Disney. (This is a regular pattern for a lot of the earlier Ghibli films.)
The art director was Kazuo Oga, who was drawn to the film when Hayao Miyazaki showed him an original image of Totoro standing in a satoyama. The director challenged Oga to raise his standards, and Oga's experience with My Neighbor Totoro jump-started the artist's career. Oga and Miyazaki debated the palette of the film, Oga seeking to paint black soil from Akita Prefecture and Miyazaki preferring the color of red soil from the Kantō region. The ultimate product was described by Studio Ghibli producer Toshio Suzuki: "It was nature painted with translucent colors."
My Neighbor Totoro is based on experience, situation and exploration, little scenes rather than a big plot—not on conflict and threat. For some this makes the movie dull, for others it makes it an extremely charming change of pace from all other films. (Kiki's Delivery Service would be much the same.)
There is a 13 minute sequel titled "Mei and the Kittenbus" that has only been shown in the Ghibli museum.
My Personal History with this movie
[hide]I had already seen a couple of Miyazaki films by the time I first saw this one. I actually spotted the tape on VHS while grocery shopping, and thoguht to myself "Oh wow, its another of those Miyazaki movies! I have to get this!" so that must have put it around 2000, 2002 at the latest.I watched it once, and while I could see the charm, I was kind of bored with it. I just kept… waiting for something to happen. I later loaned it to a friend and suggested "You can watch it on fast forward without missing anything, just stop when you get to the part in the rain." Having already seen Mononoke, Cagliostro, Nausicaa and Porco Rosso, I was just prone to expecting more action, more STUFF happening, less slice of life.
I think I might have already seen Kiki before then, but I might not have seen it till a little later. Spirited Away came out around the same time, and I didn't much care for it either. And yet, by 2006 when Whisper of the Heart aired on TCM as part of their month of Miyazaki, I ended up loving that, despite it also being a quiet slice of life film where nothing happens... and I've gone on to really adore several other films in the same vein.
I'm really curious how this rewatch will go for me, I'm pretty different than I was 10-12 years ago, I like quieter slice of lifey stuff more now, and well, I'm going in not expecting an epic fantasy this time around. So this, Kiki and Spirited Away I'm all very curious to rewatch, having not reviewed any of them in a decade. (That's kind of the case with me and several of the ghibli films, actually.) [/hide]
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The best way to describe this movie is: "Things just…happen."
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Or perhaps, "Amazing things just…happen."
I love this movie. Looking forward to it.
