http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/news/20051221p2g00m0dm006000c.html
It's kind of ironic that he'd get accused after the Eden no Hana business.
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/news/20051221p2g00m0dm006000c.html
It's kind of ironic that he'd get accused after the Eden no Hana business.
What goes around, comes around!
Well all I can say is you get what you get when you throw it too far. :mellow:
Oh boy! A manga author using a shot for referrence? Goddamn! What is the world coming to? Pitiful foul beasts! Savages!!
Yeah ok haha…...but uh.....
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WE MUST MAKE SURE THAT HUGO BOSS PAULIE STAYS SAFELY LOCKED AWAY IN A VAULT
I cannot figure how "Slam Dunk" became so popular in the first place. o.O
I cannot figure how "Slam Dunk" became so popular in the first place. o.O
I dunno, probably because it's pretty good. At least I think so.
But comic artists use photo references all the time (for poses and designs). Greg Land for example.
I dunno, probably because it's pretty good. At least I think so.
But comic artists use photo references all the time (for poses and designs). Greg Land for example.
Pardon? There's no way you're gonna feed me crack on how "illustrated sports" is more interesting than the real thing. Even reading books describing a game is boring; I can't imagine how the YGO manga even got off the ground, for as poorly done as the Anime is, it's still leagues beyond reading what's happening on paper.
…
Inoue only sold so much manga because the Japanese use his illustrations for toilet paper.
Becky looks pretty hot on that magazine cover
Pardon? There's no way you're gonna feed me crack on how "illustrated sports" is more interesting than the real thing. Even reading books describing a game is boring; I can't imagine how the YGO manga even got off the ground, for as poorly done as the Anime is, it's still leagues beyond reading what's happening on paper.
Sheesh…I haven't said anything other than I thought it was pretty good. And if I thought it was pretty good, then others probably did also (unless I'm unique for some reason). When enough people like something, they buy it...and sometimes it even becomes popular. Hard to believe, I know.
When was I comparing it to the real thing anyway? Oh, that's right...never. Believe me, I didn't try to "feed" you anything. I could care less about the sports in Slam Dunk...it's all about the characters for me. For any series, that's one of the main things I look for. You think I got into the series to see some "basketball action"? Please. I like to play basketball, but I can't even finish watching an NBA game.
Lots of other people like sports manga...so something you think is boring might not be to other people. Your opinion isn't fact. And I know my opinion isn't fact either...but what IS fact is that there are people who liked the series. Obviously.
We'll see how well Sports Manga sells in America, eh? Mayhaps the numbers should speak for me.
We'll see how well Sports Manga sells in America, eh? Mayhaps the numbers should speak for me.
Hm? You lost me. So only America's sales count? So if a sports manga sold well in America, then it would "speak for you". But if it sold well in Japan, it means nothing? Ok…I guess I can't win against that logic.
I don't have the figures, so I can't say anyway.
And about the plagarism thing...it was always a well known fact that he based many of the characters off of real NBA players. I don't know about any poses and stuff...but as far as I know, you can use them as references. That article even states that he didn't seem to trace anything. But I don't know all about the laws and stuff though, so maybe I can't say anymore. But if it is illegal or something, then there are a lot more comic artists who should get in trouble over it.
I think a sport manga could be interesting ONLY if it were focussing on the characters/business/backstory. I can't see how any game can be exciting to read/watch, knowing there's an author directing every move to "look natural".
It's like the difference between a staged explosion and someone really blowing up.
Wow, Malintex, please, stop. These kinda statements only hurt you.
Accusing Inoue is bogus. I never got into SD, but there is nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from actual shots as long as you completely draw them yourself and have original ones as well. And why now, SD ended like, 7 years ago.
There's no way you're gonna feed me crack on how "illustrated sports" is more interesting than the real thing.
I don't expect to change your mind because you seem pretty rigidly set in your opinion but I think this just needs to be said.
Sports manga aren't simply 'sports manga'. They're not just about what we consider normal sports, nor is their main focus simply said sport. They focus on the extraordinary and the personal lives of athletes and those around them.
Many of the moves performed in these comics are what we would consider super-genius moves or even possibly superhuman often taking advantage of little known textbook rules that make for nail-biting finishers.
Meanwhile the sports themselves are not simply played out as normal games, they often end up somehow being involved in life or death matches, pride fights or a way to connect with someone being sought after.
It's not simply team A versus team B for X volumes.
Not to mention in series like Kyojin no Hoshi, Dokaben and more recently Major, we literally watch the heroes from childhood to pro-league and even playing overseas in America.
And to directly answer your original question in post 5. How does sports manga do so well in Japan? Well, in a society based on close-knit group activity from the days where every family was rice-planting for there own survival, carried through to modern society where every movement is an action of the 'inside group' to make way through one's life by working together with those around them be it to enter into elementary, middle or high school, working together with co-workers for the better of the company as a whole, living not as simply a single family in the neighborhood but as a group that lives together, pays taxes together, celebrates life and death together, I think you should explain what reason there is for it to fail in a group-based society like Japan.
Hm? You lost me. So only America's sales count? So if a sports manga sold well in America, then it would "speak for you". But if it sold well in Japan, it means nothing? Ok…I guess I can't win against that logic.
The law of 'America = World' is a complex one. XD
As for the topic. . .
I find the case rather odd and unfair. Using photos for reference to cuts and plays should be perfectly legal. If they didn't then they could easily screw up the body shape etc when one player is doing a technique.
But meh, fighting against Plagerism is a losing battle.
That and Kuro's sig reminded me. Toriyama didn't seem to base his characters off real figures besides maybe the face or name. Probably no one should do that again, look at the early builds of his characters…
Missed some stuff.
I think a sport manga could be interesting ONLY if it were focussing on the characters/business/backstory. I can't see how any game can be exciting to read/watch, knowing there's an author directing every move to "look natural".
It's like the difference between a staged explosion and someone really blowing up.
You'd be suprised what someone with actual knowledge of a field can do. You could say Bruce v. Chuck Norris at the colisseum wasn't as exciting as a real fight, but you'd basically be saying that you missed a slew of subtle points.
The only sports manga I really read right now is Ippo. The fights have a certain formula, and they're not seen as the main attraction, but they prove entertaining because all of the aspects put in and the awesome art that makes it look like a death match. And even though the winner is chosen before a match, it's not like we know who it is too often.
What goes around, comes around!
How is that even the same?
Pardon? There's no way you're gonna feed me crack on how "illustrated sports" is more interesting than the real thing.
Then… mmh... the same could been argued about many things. For example how "illustrated fighting" is more interesting than the real thing? And fighting comics are popular. Slam Dunk isn't much of a good though. But Real is.
Poor wealthy Inoue. Somebody's lacking in common sense department if Inoue loses.
We'll see how well Sports Manga sells in America, eh? Mayhaps the numbers should speak for me.
So Americans won't read comics about sports? How long has Gil Thorpe been running again?
Anyway, as far as this goes: simply drawing inspiration from other works (fictional or factual) shouldn't be plagiarism unless it's done consistently and throughout the work with the deliberate intent to take credit for another creator's work. This seems more like a "gotcha" moment than anything else.
Pardon? There's no way you're gonna feed me crack on how "illustrated sports" is more interesting than the real thing. Even reading books describing a game is boring; I can't imagine how the YGO manga even got off the ground, for as poorly done as the Anime is, it's still leagues beyond reading what's happening on paper.
…
Inoue only sold so much manga because the Japanese use his illustrations for toilet paper.
Like most other people have said here… you obviously haven't read a page of these mangas, so quit making comments as if you know everything because you're only hurting yourself.
I've read a good bit of sports manga myself, and I can say that it's not boring in the least. Like others have said, sports manga focus a lot of the actual PEOPLE playing the sport, and they focus a lot on the atheletes' pride. There's a lot of GREAT internal monologue, especially during play. And it also goes into the lives of the atheletes in the manga, how they train, why they train, what their home lives are like, etc. I watch sports here, and the most personality I've been able to pick up are what kind of flashy-ass stupid looking car they drive.
Hajime no Ippo is a great sports manga, partly because of the fights, also because of the interaction between the fighters outside of the ring. Eyeshield 21 is another one where character interaction and development is brilliant. My personal favorite was when the Ha Ha Brothers got the living shit beat out of them by members of a rival team and were laughed at, then became fed up with being weak and took the sport seriously.
If you're so sure that sports manga is boring, go read Takamura vs. Hawk from Hajime no Ippo. That's pretty much the epitome of what's good about sports manga.
Its illeigal to use references for art in Japan? )_)
amen about hajime no ippo cap'n
Its illeigal to use references for art in Japan? )_)
I know Ai Yazawa of Nana and Parakiss fame has used at least one photo reference in one of her color spreads.
And the covers at the end of the ParaKiss anime are also taken from poses from real magazines.
Another thing I forgot to mention about sports manga is how it gives an interesting perspective on many sports. I really liked seeing the Japanese attitudes toward American Football and Boxing (so far, the best for this is Kamogawa and Nekota's Post-WWII flashback, where they fight the American soldier)
Accusing Inoue is bogus. I never got into SD, but there is nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from actual shots as long as you completely draw them yourself and have original ones as well. And why now, SD ended like, 7 years ago.
I agree with you here. I think it's perfectly fine as long as he didn't just trace it. But is it just me or do the Japanese take this more seriously than Western comic artists? I mean there's a lot of this swiping being done but I haven't seen titles being cancelled over it.
BTW, Here's a link to some of the "plagiarized" pictures.
I love how when that other gal did it, people were so quick to jump on her. Now Inoue does it, and people call it "bogus". You can buy a lot with fame, it seems.
Wasn't she tracing ? I'm not sure if he was, but he based his on something real, so he had to have a reference, at least.
I don't remember it clearly, but I thought the other person was copying Inoue's art. But i don't really know.
Wow this is really dumb. Ok so they have some stances in common lets go sue the guy. Its like theyre freaking jealious or something
I love how when that other gal did it, people were so quick to jump on her. Now Inoue does it, and people call it "bogus". You can buy a lot with fame, it seems.
I don't know much about the other case, but that article made it seem like they were actually tracing art or something (which is not the same as using photo references in my opinion). I'll have to read more about it though to be sure. Were they just using Inoue's art for reference? I mean, I don't know all the details about it…and I don't know if they deserved what happened.
But whether they deserved it or not, that doesn't change the fact that using photo references shouldn't be considered plagiarism (at least to my knowledge). Just because they got in trouble for something doesn't mean Inoue should automatically get in trouble too without considering that. And I'm not just defending Inoue because I liked Slam Dunk or because he's famous...I just don't see it as plagiarism.
And I once read in a "how to draw" book that to be a good artist, you need to use references for difficult things. I know that if I could draw (which I can't), I would probably reference lots of stuff. I can understand that some people might think of it as being "un-artistic" though - but I still don't think it's plagiarism. Inoue's reputation is already bound to suffer for this - but why would Slam Dunk have to be recalled (or whatever would happen) for it? I'm just looking at what I consider to be the facts here...and I don't think it should be considered plagiarism personally.
I never "jumped on" the other artist. I was just defending Inoue. Maybe if I knew more of the details (which I'm looking for at this moment), then I might defend that artist too. I have never even heard of the other case until now. And I know that people think wealthy people get off too easily - but really, only if what Inoue did is exactly the same as what the other artist did should he get the same punishment. I kind of see it as one of those "let's find something to hurt a famous person's reputation beause it makes for a big story" moments.
It also depends...is using drawn art for a reference the same as using photos? I seriously don't know myself.
EDIT: I found some sites about the other case, but the images comparing Slam Dunk to Eden No Hana are not working. Does anyone have them? Also, the sites say the artist admitted to the plagiarism and issued a public apology. Still, it's not like I'm happy that they got their comic cancelled and recalled (since I'm not the kind of person who takes pleasure in the misfortunes of others) - that must be sad for her fans and it makes me kind of depressed when I think about it.
EDIT (again - wish I could just double post): Oh, and according to (regarding Yuki Suetsugu): http://www.animenewsservice.com/archives/oct2.htm
several fan sites and blogs popped up around the web posting side by side scans (1, 2) and transparency layovers (1, 2) pointing out the areas where it appears entire pages were literally traced
So, supposedely, there was tracing in her manga (although the pictures are 404 errors). Although Inoue's art looks close to the photos, they don't seem traced to me. It just looks closer to what we were supposed to do in high school art class: look at a photo and draw it. That's gotta be a little different at least.