47/48 critic review at 98% approval rating, user rating at 99%
Holy crap.
Probably the strongest opening of any MCU movie ever, and possibly any superhero movie ever.
47/48 critic review at 98% approval rating, user rating at 99%
Holy crap.
Probably the strongest opening of any MCU movie ever, and possibly any superhero movie ever.
One minor question for those who have seen it though… And I don't think this is big enough to warrant a spoiler-tag...
Who was Martin Freeman's character? I mean it felt like they expected us to know him, but all I saw was "Oh hi Martin Freeman… So why are you here?"
Haven't seen the movie yet, but I believe he's a Black Panther character named Everett Ross.
So likely more of an early cameo.
A friend saw it before the official release and told me it was pretty good.
I've got a question for those who read the Civil War comics and saw the movie: was the movie as good as the comics? Or close?
I always thought the general consensus was that the comics were pretty bad, and royally screwed over Tonys character? Or maybe thats the Internet Indoctrination in me speaking.
The comics were terrible. I'd hope the movie was better.
I loved Spider-Man's pov in the comics. Retcon later aside >.>
@Daz:
I always thought the general consensus was that the comics were pretty bad, and royally screwed over Tonys character? Or maybe thats the Internet Indoctrination in me speaking.
I considered it was fine. Tony tried his best to protect the heroes as long as he could, explosion happened and he took the chose the side he believed made the most sense. He was mostly a guy trying to get the best out of a shitty situation.
I considered it was fine. Tony tried his best to protect the heroes as long as he could, explosion happened and he took the chose the side he believed made the most sense. He was mostly a guy trying to get the best out of a shitty situation.
That was true in the beginning, but about the end of "civil war", they made him go complete asshole road, they made complete villain and evil.
Then why is it that if I ever hear people talk about civil war comics, they praise them as this great thing?
That was true in the beginning, but about the end of "civil war", they made him go complete asshole road, they made complete villain and evil.
I think his thor Robot malfunctioned, which is a weird thing to blame him for (Captain Amrica brung the punisher) since it was a malfunction. There was also that Osborn thing that I barely but remember but from what I recall he hated himself for having to resort to that tactic and he didn't harm innocents did he?
Then why is it that if I ever hear people talk about civil war comics, they praise them as this great thing?
Superheros/Supervillains fighting other superheroes.
Then why is it that if I ever hear people talk about civil war comics, they praise them as this great thing?
The premise was cool and the art was good and most people haven't read it in 10 years.
But when you have the "heroes" killing other heroes, detaining people in other dimensions without warrants,making clones, mindwiping people, sending Hulk into space, teaming up with villains, trampling civil liberties, illegal spying, convincing SPiderman to unmask for no reason, causing tons of property damage while trying to detain other heroes, betraying people you'v worked with for decades to save the world, following up the same evils that are the mutant registration act?
When its a scenario where you replace Tony Stark and Reed Richard with Norman Osborn and Doctor Doom and you can't tell the difference? That's a problem.
It's a bad thing. And it never ever ever should have come down to fisticuffs in the first place. Iron Man, Captain America, token X-Man (beast maybe), Namor, and a handfulof others should have been able to sit down and work something out.
Also, it should have been legislation that took months to hammer out and had clear definitions, not something that was passed overnight and was NEVER properly explained.
Heroes SHOULD be trained, especially at a young age. And they should be paid for helping and get medical coverage, And merchandising rights! If they don't want to give up their secret identity, (because villains are going to target their loved ones) give them an alt bank account that they can access. A credit card that says "Spider-Man" on it is fine. ANd they shouldn't be literally killing other heroes while villains run rampant. Brutalizing them because they want to help was not a good option.
bviously you can't database them, that's too exploitable. But just going "Well, only Tony is going to know the names is dumb." Because… most of the Superhero community alredy knew each others secret identities anyway and that's just going to lead to SHIELD being hacked or whatnot. The sensible thing is to say, have no more than three hero identities given to any one individual, or something. 99% of the time a team of heroes knows the identities of their teammates anyway, (and often live in the same location) so...
Ah okay, big flashy dumb event then that people still have nostalgia for.
Btw, whats with all the mutant hating in the marvel universe while you have other people running around with same crazy powers being praised as heroes?
Dont tell me it's just because, oh hey the x men were born with mutations so they aren't real humans, while it's totally okay to like people who mutated after, looking at Fantastic Four etc.?
Ah okay, big flashy dumb event then that people still have nostalgia for.
Btw, whats with all the mutant hating in the marvel universe while you have other people running around with same crazy powers being praised as heroes?
That's a question people have asked for decades and there's never an honest good answer that feels right, and it's actually a reason the cinematic universes work better split.
But boiled down to it… Why do we hate irrationally hate blacks and muslims and women and gays?
Racism is stupid and blind to logic.
And yes, in some cases like the Fantastic Four or Captain America you can write it off as "they became that way in the line of duty, and hey, they saved the world". Or because they're celebrities. This made more sense back in the 60's and 70's when the marvel universe was still kind of small, when there were only dozens of super beings instead of millions.
Mutants might be so frightening because there's so many of them. Other super heroes are pretty isolated incidents, mutants? There's millions of them and they could be anybody. There's only one Captain America. And to be fair, Spiderman was feared and hunted by police for a long long time, he's just been around so long no one can justify calling him a menace at this point, he's too clearly and too often on the heroes side.
Also, in more modern explanations, it can be argued that Xavier actually mucked things up by insisting the X-Men stay secret for so long. So the world knows about super terrorist Magneto, but they don't know about the guys who step up and deal with him.
Just saw Civil War, fun movie but man first time in a while that a movie overwhelmed me. There's so much going on and nothing that you want to miss.
My favorite parts aren't mentioned that often from what I could see.
! Everyone is gushing over Spiderman or Black Panther, my picks are Dean Pelton and Giantman.
Just saw it. The film is amazing, and the action insane. People at my screening were going crazy. This movie is going to make all the money.
That airport scene… just wow.
That's a question people have asked for decades and there's never an honest good answer that feels right, and it's actually a reason the cinematic universes work better split.
But boiled down to it… Why do we hate irrationally hate blacks and muslims and women and gays?
Racism is stupid and blind to logic.
And yes, in some cases like the Fantastic Four or Captain America you can write it off as "they became that way in the line of duty, and hey, they saved the world". Or because they're celebrities. This made more sense back in the 60's and 70's when the marvel universe was still kind of small, when there were only dozens of super beings instead of millions.
Mutants might be so frightening because there's so many of them. Other super heroes are pretty isolated incidents, mutants? There's millions of them and they could be anybody. There's only one Captain America. And to be fair, Spiderman was feared and hunted by police for a long long time, he's just been around so long no one can justify calling him a menace at this point, he's too clearly and too often on the heroes side.
Also, in more modern explanations, it can be argued that Xavier actually mucked things up by insisting the X-Men stay secret for so long. So the world knows about super terrorist Magneto, but they don't know about the guys who step up and deal with him.
It's also the way Magneto tends to characterize mutants, as the next step in human evolution. He essentially looks to replace humans and is pretty good at propaganda so that message gets out easily. Most normal superpowers tend to be the result of lab or other accidents, whereas as mutant powers can more frequently appear in kids or families less prepared to deal with them.
As far as why some random citizen would be scared of seeing a mutant but not a superhero when their powers might be indistinguishable, well, there's no real explanation.
Mutants might be so frightening because there's so many of them. Other super heroes are pretty isolated incidents, mutants? There's millions of them and they could be anybody. There's only one Captain America. And to be fair, Spiderman was feared and hunted by police for a long long time, he's just been around so long no one can justify calling him a menace at this point, he's too clearly and too often on the heroes side..
See this is the thing I never got - I know "Mutant" refers to a genetic condition whereas….um, the other category - Spiderman or Deadpool or whatever - refers to some outside source giving them their powers.
But who the hell could tell the difference?
Like if some innocent bystander saw Wolverine fighting alongside Spiderman, what stops them from thinking both are "mutants"? In the sense that the word "mutant" refers to some person who has some kind of non-human, "weird" superpower that could give pause. I always thought it was waaay too generalized of a word to use.
In the same vein, if someone went "aw man look at that freak, he must be a Mutant", some hero could say "well n-no, I wasn't born with the condition"….aren't they still...y'know, mutated? And maybe it's the modern sense of the word, but when I think of "mutant", I think of a scaly, slimy, frightening kind of creature you would mistake for an alien. Jean Gray? Pfft, she looks normal on the outside. Mystique? Oh she's always blue - dead ringer!
The mutant metaphor(s) have always been sloppy and not all that well thought-out.
And again, it worked better in the 60's where there were a ton of mutants, and a handful of heroes. The general public COULD know on sight Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Daredevil and Spiderman and the Fantastic Four, and they were kind of it. These people get tv time and are well known quantities
Even the average citizen would know about the "brave space explorers who suffered an accident" and "Tony Stark's bodguard" and "that menace spiderman". Public figures with well detailed origins, and there weren't a whole lot of them. And heck, when Beast is an Avenger, no one ever bothers him about being a mutant. Because he goes on camera is a smart intelligent charming person and the public can see him.
Now that there's soooo many costumed heroes though, the metaphor doesn't work at all.
But yeah, racism is irrational. Jean Grey may look normal. But if she were muslim in this day and age? She'd be hated and feared for that. Storm may look normal, but she was still a black woman in the 70's. So, they get alll the discrimination.
Of the four rotten reviews of CW, three of them gives all the superhero movies they review a rotten.
While subjectivity is impossible abolish from a review, a professional "critic" must try to be as objective as possible and without genre bias.
These guys are clearly not so.
It's a way for them to get the attention.
Thanks for shining some light on it Robby. But yeah ultimately I am glad the cinematic universes of the x-men and other marvel heroes are split. They just work better seperated than crammed together in one huge clusterf**k of superheroes on the big screen.
DC, sigh, that's how you do a big entertaining Superhero vs Superhero movie. Just put your heroes into action a little more often and let them act awesome instead of showing them brooding over their existence. And voila, no need for stupid dreamsequences.
Back to CW, the introduction of Spidey and Panther was very well done and doesn't felt like a checklist. And I even liked that Star Wars ingnorant Spiderkid. Never happened before with his other movies. Other things like motivations and the airport fight were already addressed here so, yeah.
! I just wanted to know, was there a "disarmed" joke with Bucky somewhere at the end in the english movie version? Would've liked that
On another note; payed 14€ for my ticket. That's just insane. I recently rewatched Donnie Darko and nearly fell off my chair as they ordered two tickets and the guy said: "Two dollars." D,:
Yeah ticket prices are high. :(
Especially since they limit the 2d screenings while having most of them be stupid 3d ones, to get more money for a gimmick out of us. I mean here where i live they have at most just one 2d screening a day and 4-5 3d ones. :getlost:
And dont get me started with CW screening in original eng dub. Just one every couple days and only in the evening. Oh and of course only in 3d.
! I just wanted to know, was there a "disarmed" joke with Bucky somewhere at the end in the english movie version? Would've liked that
On another note; payed 14€ for my ticket. That's just insane. I recently rewatched Donnie Darko and nearly fell off my chair as they ordered two tickets and the guy said: "Two dollars." D,:
I don't remember there being that kind of joke, so no. I also paid 13€ but I guess you get used to it. It's not like I go to the cinema every other week, the last movie I saw was Star Wars, so the price is alright.
Yeah ticket prices are high. :(
Especially since they limit the 2d screenings while having most of them be stupid 3d ones, to get more money for a gimmick out of us. I mean here where i live they have at most just one 2d screening a day and 4-5 3d ones. :getlost:
And dont get me started with CW screening in original eng dub. Just one every couple days and only in the evening. Oh and of course only in 3d.
You probably live in a smaller town, here in Munich it's pretty easy to find cinemas that show movies in the original dub. As far as I remember I've watched pretty much every major movie in the last couple of years in English and the screenings were as easy to find as German ones.
I've got a question for those who read the Civil War comics and saw the movie: was the movie as good as the comics? Or close?
First off, this is coming from someone who read the 7 issue series back when it first hit and just now finally sat down recently and re-read it with ALL The tie ins included, so I have a very fresh memory of the story in my head.
I think the real problem with it is that they raised these great questions about Superhero accountability and what have you, but only used it as an excuse to make heroes fight.
I mean, Ok, in the context of the story itself, Iron Man was actually RIGHT.
Spoiling this becuase I know some people might be worried about how much the movie will follow this, and might not want to be spoiled…. but I doubt it's gonna be like this in the movies from what I've seen.
! The inciting incident is where some kid heroes called the New Warriors are shooting a reality TV show about being heroes, and they make a stupid call to attack a supervillain they are aware is way out of their league for ratings which results in the death of ~600 People, 60 of which were children who were at Ground Zero. This is caught on video and ignights the powder keg that was already waiting to happen about Superhero accountability.
! Iron Man had been against the Registration act and was lobbying congress to stop it, but faced with this, and the mother of one of the victims confronting him at a funeral, he realizes public backlash is too great and the heroes are better off supporting the act so they can help shape it, than if they oppose it and will then just be FORCED to fall in line later, only this time without input.
! This is the problem inherent with the issue is that… faced with this setup?.... Iron Man is 100% right. The kinda thing that happened with the New Warriors SHOULDN'T be allowed to happen, and the concept of training young heroes SHOULDN'T seem like a bad thing.... The big problem here comes from them having to then make Cap oppose him, which seems contrary to Cap's character. Cap seems like the kind who would want to fall in line so he can be a leader to help shape this into a program he can get behind.... So, how do they make Cap seem like he might be in the right?... Make it all about Secret Identities instead of accountability and also make Iron Man's side's methods cartoonishly evil.
There WAS some good here I think tho… The Tie ins were, to some extent, better than the main book. Any of the Spider-man Tie in issues were great, that one or two issues of Iron Man's actual book were good because it shows a Tony who ISN'T A Cartoonishly evil jackass, but one who is actually conflicted about what he's going through, Ms. Marvel was excellent, she really had good internal conflict about the act that was great to read and surprisingly, my favorite book that Tied into Civil War and my favorite character in it was... Reed Richards... oddly enough... I never liked his arguments enough to where I went "I get what he means, I totally forgive all the horrible crap his side is doing" but he had the best and most sympathetic argument to me about why someone might go to the lengths they went to.
That doesn't make up for how, again, Cartoonishly evil they get. Plus, exactly what the Act required of the heroes was very inconsistent in both the main book and the Tie ins, IE:
Were the Secret Identities supposed to be public? Would only SHIELD know them? Would only Tony? Depending on the story or tie in you were reading, this changed drastically.
Were they constituting an actual Hero Draft? Jessica Jones seemed to believe they were going to require her to suit up and help stop bad guys even tho she wanted to be retired and be a mother. That's why she flees to Canada.
Did the Government/President Know about and/or Support Tony's side holding American citizens without due process in the Negative Zone? Was this part of the act, or were they going Rogue with it?
These kinda things were inconsistent and seemed to change based on what the particular writer of the tie in or issue in question needed the act to be to tell the story they wanted.
That being said, to get to your actual question about whether or not the movie will be as "Good" as the comics... honestly, it looks like the movie is going to be LEAPS AND BOUNDS better because they're taking the core concept which, again, was a good concept, and they're fixing the problems the comics had.
1: The previous movies these characters were in set up why they fall on the sides they fall. In The Winter Soldier, Cap found out the Government Organization he worked for (SHIELD) was really a HYDRA Sleeper, and therefore that he can't trust them. He has AMPLE reason to be suspicious of a government org that wants to control him. Tony, meanwhile, created Ultron and was therefore directly responsible for the event that inspired this act. He has ample reason to feel guilty over that and want to try to make it right.
2: Removing secret identities from the mix makes this WAY less complicated. Now it's literally about the accountability, which again, was what the biggest issue should have been in the comics as the event that sparked everything WAS an accountabilty issue rather than a secret identity one.
3: Adding Bucky as a motivator for Cap also makes it even more plausible. From the Ant Man after credits scene, it implies Cap was willing to play ball with the Accords to some degree earlier on (they talk about Calling Tony in, meaning the "War" hasn't begun, but they also mention the "Accords" being an issue with that)
This just adds another dimension to the fight that wasn't there in the comics that really makes this more personal and gives the heroes more a reason to fight.
So, to answer your question in a TL:DR fashion:
It appears the movie is going to be far superior to the comics version of the event.
You know, it's amazing how similar the world of My Hero Academia is to one in which the Registration Act/Sokovia Accords passes.
Databases on people's abilities
Regulation of who's allowed to use abilities in combat
Training of ability users at a young age
Really the key differences are the outsourcing of hero work to independent agencies and the prevalence of powers in the population.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
And dont get me started with CW screening in original eng dub. Just one every couple days and only in the evening. Oh and of course only in 3d.
It's not a dub if that's the original language it was made in. Just saying.
Saw it yesterday. That movie was amazing. It's now my favorite movie from the MCU.
My only regret is that I couldn't watch it like my friend did, who didn't know about Spiderman being in the movie.
Even though I tried my best to avoid every teaser/trailer/news, I was unfortunately spoiled just a few weeks back.
You probably live in a smaller town, here in Munich it's pretty easy to find cinemas that show movies in the original dub. As far as I remember I've watched pretty much every major movie in the last couple of years in English and the screenings were as easy to find as German ones.
Wait a second. You didn't happen to watch it in the Cinema theaters in Nymphenburger Straße, did you? Cause that's where I've been watching all my English Marvel movies since Age of Ultron. So…three of them.
Saw Civil War last night, and holy crap was this movie good! The conflict is handled very well, the fight scenes are amazing, this is the best MCU movie as of now, in my opinion.
… Yeah, seeing how awful the comic side of Civil War looks, further adds to why I'm more interested in the movies as their own universe, rather than being mere adaptations of their comic counterparts.
Acknowledging the source these movies come from is important, and some of the stories are great! But I don't want to go to the movies to see just a live action version of it. I like to see the different takes and small changes they make to improve it while not ruining the subject.
I've thought about checking out the civil war arc at the library, but I'm not sure if I want to if I won't enjoy it.
Wait a second. You didn't happen to watch it in the Cinema theaters in Nymphenburger Straße, did you? Cause that's where I've been watching all my English Marvel movies since Age of Ultron. So…three of them.
Yeah, that's the one.
Can anyone remind me why Ant-Man was in the movie besides "let's shove him in as well"? As far as I remember Cap just asked where the new guy was, Hawkeye pulls him out of the van and after a short fanboy talk he fights for them.
You probably live in a smaller town, here in Munich it's pretty easy to find cinemas that show movies in the original dub. As far as I remember I've watched pretty much every major movie in the last couple of years in English and the screenings were as easy to find as German ones.
Nah, I was talking about the Cineplex in Münster.^^
Yeah, that's the one.
Can anyone remind me why Ant-Man was in the movie besides "let's shove him in as well"? As far as I remember Cap just asked where the new guy was, Hawkeye pulls him out of the van and after a short fanboy talk he fights for them.
But… it was clearly foreshadowed in the Ant-man film. In the ending scene.
But… it was clearly foreshadowed in the Ant-man film. In the ending scene.
Second half, after 1:26
Yes, I remember him being invited to the Avengers, I guess I should've asked more precisely. What I meant was whether it was explained why exactly Ant-Man is on Cap's side or why he feels the need to participate in this fight. All the other members showed some kind of reasoning why they chose their side except for him (or I missed it). It felt to me like the writers' thinking process was "We also got Ant-Man, how do we include him?" "Let's just make Hawkeye pick him up." "But on which side is he?" "Well, Cap's side is one short, so…"
Again, I might have missed something and it was indeed explained in the movie.
Ant-man on Cap's side is the obvious choice. Why the hell would a thief and an ex-con who works alone and relies on stealth to operate want to work under government supervision?
Yes, I remember him being invited to the Avengers, I guess I should've asked more precisely. What I meant was whether it was explained why exactly Ant-Man is on Cap's side or why he feels the need to participate in this fight. All the other members showed some kind of reasoning why they chose their side except for him (or I missed it). It felt to me like the writers' thinking process was "We also got Ant-Man, how do we include him?" "Let's just make Hawkeye pick him up." "But on which side is he?" "Well, Cap's side is one short, so…"
Again, I might have missed something and it was indeed explained in the movie.
It's not elaborated heavily on, but in Ant-Man Hank Pym does warn him to never trust a Stark
! which he actually mentions in the movie when Tony visits them in prison.
So while Scott's reasoning isn't put much into focus, it does make sense that he doesn't join Tony Stark's side.
Ant-man on Cap's side is the obvious choice. Why the hell would a thief and an ex-con who works alone and relies on stealth to operate want to work under government supervision?
He said he's done with thieving though, and if he prefers to work alone being in the Avengers would not be of interest to him.
It's not elaborated heavily on, but in Ant-Man Hank Pym does warn him to never trust a Stark
! which he actually mentions in the movie when Tony visits them in prison.
So while Scott's reasoning isn't put much into focus, it does make sense that he doesn't join Tony Stark's side.
That makes sense, thank you! Completely forgot their dislike for the Starks.
But… it was clearly foreshadowed in the Ant-man film. In the ending scene.
Second half, after 1:26
AHAHAHAHA!! I love this character.
Ooh, "We got guys who crawl up the walls." They snuck that in there right under our noses.
The Michael Pena story telling scenes are one of my favorite parts of Ant Man. The entire "As he tells the story, it's his voice, and choice of words, coming out of everyone" gag for some reason gets me every time.
Also, Sister and I decided to watch a marvel movie a week starting a couple of months ago in prep for this. Recently watched Ant Man, so we're caught up! Can't wait!
Best parts about his storytelling is that they weren't stereotypical things. Wine tasting and and art gallery. I was dying when he started going on tangents about why he was there lol.
Best parts about his storytelling is that they weren't stereotypical things. Wine tasting and and art gallery. I was dying when he started going on tangents about why he was there lol.
I literally watched Ant Man for the first time yesterday, and my friend who watched it with me said the same damn thing.
He should show up in Daredevil.
really sad quicksilver won't be in civil war
Why would he be?
he's always been one of my favorites in the comics, I even have some quicksilver comics from was a kid (they sucked but I didn't know that when I was 7) I was just sad he had to die in age of ultron, and would have loved to see spiderman fight against him if he had lived through age of ultron
The Michael Pena story telling scenes are one of my favorite parts of Ant Man. The entire "As he tells the story, it's his voice, and choice of words, coming out of everyone" gag for some reason gets me every time.
Also, Sister and I decided to watch a marvel movie a week starting a couple of months ago in prep for this. Recently watched Ant Man, so we're caught up! Can't wait!
Lip-synching is often hilarious if done right.
It's one reason Drunk History is so funny.