Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

Roosta

Then again, rather odd how he talks about only having one regret/one thing left undone, as if never getting to see Tama and Yamato ever again wasn't worth regretting about.

It obviously could be retcon, but my interpretation is that his way of doing that was by supporting Whitebeard becoming the Pirate King. He thought he would be strong enough to take on Kaido himself, but realized upon meeting Whitebeard that he would have to throw in with others. IIRC there was a scene where he mentioned wanting to take on Kaido to the Whitebeard Pirates, but they also mentioned that it wasn't possible at the time.

Syphin

The way I interpret things, I don't think Oda would set-up Yamato as being so learned about the history of piracy and ongoings around the world which includes the arrival of the New Generation to only then limit his story to just Wano. The story Oda has written for Yamato so far sets him up as a character who will directly be involved in the age about to be defined by the new generation.

I also find it weird how Oda connected Yamato to the Straw Hat Pirates by having Yamato be the one who gave Ace the vivre card. Such a scene would not be relevant if only to notify Yamato of Ace's death. A newspaper could have been used as a trigger instead for Yamato finding out about Ace's death and Luffy's importance rather than the vivre card. The vivre card development is obviously a retcon and avoiding such a retcon would have helped avoid the awkwardness attached to it. Why drag in past plot points unnecessarily that didn't need further development? Oda intentionally made that choice to tie Yamato to the Straw Hat Pirates through the vivre card Ace gave them during the Alabasta Arc. Such an intention I feel will be substantiated going forward.

With Oda's originally envisioned Straw Hat Pirate crew already being gathered, any new member(s) will obviously have a different set-up than the other Straw Hat Pirates who joined before as this character or characters weren't planned from the inception of One Piece.

Shiebs

I still say if I could choose anyone to join the crew I’d want Sir Crocodile hands down

If Yamato doesn’t join he’s one of the few people who we definitely know has some sort of flashback coming up (not that he’ll join)

Zik

@Shiebs:

I still say if I could choose anyone to join the crew I’d want Sir Crocodile hands down

If Yamato doesn’t join he’s one of the few people who we definitely know has some sort of flashback coming up (not that he’ll join)

That's more of a fav character thing in the same realm as ppl who want Smoker to join.

Oda would have to do a ton of character work to make sense of Crocodile joining the crew. Vivi could sort of hand wave (and rationalize) away Robin joining but Croc?! That's almost spitting in her face and the entire Alabasta saga.

Croc wasn't even hinted at being a tragic villain that was doing bad things for an old personal "good" reason. I mean the signs weren't even in his favor when it was hinted that his pirate ambitions were crushed by Whitebeard instead of say Big Mom or some previous evil emperor or who Oda chose to do that with by having Kaido crush Moria and apparently kill his crew.

Shiebs

@Zik:

That's more of a fav character thing in the same realm as ppl who want Smoker to join.

Oda would have to do a ton of character work to make sense of Crocodile joining the crew. Vivi could sort of hand wave (and rationalize) away Robin joining but Croc?! That's almost spitting in her face and the entire Alabasta saga.

Croc wasn't even hinted at being a tragic villain that was doing bad things for an old personal "good" reason. I mean the signs weren't even in his favor when it was hinted that his pirate ambitions were crushed by Whitebeard instead of say Big Mom or some previous evil emperor or who Oda chose to do that with by having Kaido crush Moria and apparently kill his crew.

I just think he would be an interesting dynamic to the crew, but yes your right he won’t join

Although I do think he has a tragic past, Iva hinted that he has some sort of great secret and obviously there’s a reason he’s missing an arm and has a giant scar

The fact that Iva knows this secret, and Oda hid Crocodile’s appearance in chapter 0 and his gender is ambiguous in his child picture leads me to believe he was at one time a woman

Although Oda has a habit of changing things in his story if too many people guess it, so that might not be the case anymore

Zik

@Shiebs:

I just think he would be an interesting dynamic to the crew, but yes your right he won’t join

Although I do think he has a tragic past, Iva hinted that he has some sort of great secret and obviously there’s a reason he’s missing an arm and has a giant scar

The fact that Iva knows this secret, and Oda hid Crocodile’s appearance in chapter 0 and his gender is ambiguous in his child picture leads me to believe he was at one time a woman

Although Oda has a habit of changing things in his story if too many people guess it, so that might not be the case anymore

I could see him on the Sunny at some point as a reluctant ally.

Maybe Croc will try to make an alliance with some giants.

Shiebs

@Zik:

I could see him on the Sunny at some point as a reluctant ally.

Maybe Croc will try to make an alliance with some giants.

I really hope so! He’d make the best reluctant ally! he’s powerful and clever enough to be of use but you also have to look out because he will take any opportunity to screw you over when it best suits him

I imagine him being like a mix of Vegeta from Dragonball and Jane Cobb from Firefly

Solid

ya'll are mistaking yamato for tama in these marineford and ace discussions.

Zik

@Solid:

ya'll are mistaking yamato for tama in these marineford and ace discussions.

No. There's been nothing about a little girl who can control animals in those discussions.

Roosta

There are some similarities between Tama and Yamato, but Yamato is the one that shared sake with Ace, and was waiting for Luffy since before he left Dawn Island.

astagadragon

And Yamato is the one that knows Luffy's true dream that I don't think even Zoro and Nami, his oldest crewmates, know.

Tbh I've been sold on the "Yamato new crewmate" train since that chapter 1,000 flashback.

Shiebs

What do we think Luffy's other dream is?

Blowfish

For someone who's been solely focused on one thing the better part of 30 years our time, i'd say Luffy having a deeper reason to wanting to be Pirate King was the biggest twist in the series thus far. Kanjuro can't touch that, its been awhile since Ace and the old man died.

We have to start with the most freedom in the sea, that's the closest we've gotten to hearing why. I guess the real question what can you do with the most freedom at sea. The answer is anything.

yo ho ho ho

so i know everyone is on the yamato train, and that's all well and good, seeing as how we need a wano representative of some kind on the crew (was thinking kinemon for a while, but being stabbed through by kaido and zoro being able to do his moves kind of negates him), but how come Law is never brought up as a serious candidate as a permanent crew member?

Is the reason people discount him because he's a captain of his own crew? You'd figure the inclusion of Jinbei, a former captain and warlord himself, would make it clear that is not a real reason. He's a support type fighter, he's gotten a very strawhat-esque flashback, he fully believes in luffy and even said the strawhats perform miracles everywhere. he's a true believer, wants to find out the secret to the D clan, and knows that the strawhats can lead him to it. the ONLY reason to exclude him long term is that he's also a doctor, but that seems a minor hurdle. he was impressed by chopper and if we want to be pendantic, we can say he's more a surgeon than anything else.

Blowfish

We already have a Doctor.

Zik

Yeah a few things just eliminate Law as a candidate but I simply don't see it in his character to become a member of Luffy's crew. Friend and ally, sure but he isn't going to put his ambition in the backseat to make Luffy pirate king.

To me he's sort of built up to be the Whitebeard to Luffy's Roger.

Love the character though. To me Oda's already done a lot in making him a co-protagonist for a few hundred chapters.

Roosta

Law is one of my favorite characters (#3?), and throughout my re-watch I felt like I would be much happier if Chopper was replaced by Law. However, Law is much too strong a personality to be a subordinate to Luffy… as we've seen time and again, he's at his best when he's an ally who can plan and manage the force that is Luffy and the Strawhats. Law was also a great straight man to the Strawhats antics, but now that role is being taken by Jinbe, so his character would be a bit redundant on the crew.

Coookie

It's not often Greg chimes in on this discussion so I'll leave a link to his newest column here.

Robby

Note that comment had to go through editorial approval.

But also keep in mind editorial sometimes encourages he put in completely wrong things, because it wouldn't be fun if he was right all the time.

electricmastro

@yo:

so i know everyone is on the yamato train, and that's all well and good, seeing as how we need a wano representative of some kind on the crew (was thinking kinemon for a while, but being stabbed through by kaido and zoro being able to do his moves kind of negates him), but how come Law is never brought up as a serious candidate as a permanent crew member?

Is the reason people discount him because he's a captain of his own crew? You'd figure the inclusion of Jinbei, a former captain and warlord himself, would make it clear that is not a real reason. He's a support type fighter, he's gotten a very strawhat-esque flashback, he fully believes in luffy and even said the strawhats perform miracles everywhere. he's a true believer, wants to find out the secret to the D clan, and knows that the strawhats can lead him to it. the ONLY reason to exclude him long term is that he's also a doctor, but that seems a minor hurdle. he was impressed by chopper and if we want to be pendantic, we can say he's more a surgeon than anything else.

Jinbe didn’t express himself of wanting to be his own boss like how Law does, so he’s definitely not the same as Law.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Roosta:

There are some similarities between Tama and Yamato, but Yamato is the one that shared sake with Ace, and was waiting for Luffy since before he left Dawn Island.

If Tama were an older and more experienced kunoichi with purpose for leaving which would help her ambition along with his, then I could see it as more likely, but it still seems too early for her.

Zik

Yeah seems like the strawhats are getting a samurai (Yamato) instead of a ninja (Tama or anyone else)

electricmastro

@Zik:

Yeah seems like the strawhats are getting a samurai (Yamato) instead of a ninja (Tama or anyone else)

Samurai has to do with the feudal Japanese military from what I understand, which could go in line with Kaidou referring to her as having value as a soldier, but I think there's more present evidence to suggest that she'd fall in line more with being a guard than anything else.

Jonouchi

This post is deleted!

Solid

The strawhats pay homage to super smash and famous video game characters in a colorspread, meanwhile Yama-os animal form is almost a clone of an iconic video game wolf, no thanks.
Doesn't help that his human form looks like any other 100s of oni humanoids- and oni princesses characters that came before.
Yama-o would be the least original strawhat.

electricmastro

@Solid:

The strawhats pay homage to super smash and famous video game characters in a colorspread, meanwhile Yama-os animal form is almost a clone of an iconic video game wolf, no thanks.
Doesn't help that his human form looks like any other 100s of oni humanoids- and oni princesses characters that came before.
Yama-o would be the least original strawhat.

I'm sure Yamato has been compared to many non-One Piece characters already, like Kagome from Inuyasha:

Solid

yeah, thats the typical shrine priestess outfit

there's also a shrine priestess in the NES game Shin Onigashima

electricmastro

@Solid:

yeah, thats the typical shrine priestess outfit

there's also a shrine priestess in the NES game Shin Onigashima

The closest comparison, if anything, may be Hozuki from Hozuki's Coolheadedness. In addition to his design and being companions with a white-furred canine with a multi-colored rope, he also works under King Enma and is friends with a character named Momotaro.

Solid

Nah, in resemblance that is not the closest. Just google oni girl or oni princess and a ton of look alikes from free gacha games will show up.

Roosta

@Solid:

Nah, in resemblance that is not the closest. Just google oni girl or oni princess and a ton of look alikes from free gacha games will show up.

The Strawhats aren't all super original. Zoro, Nami, Sanji, and Robin are all just normal humans with a few accents each. Saying this is like saying you can find Sanji lookalikes by googling "man in a suit" or Robin lookalikes by googling "woman".

electricmastro

@Solid:

Nah, in resemblance that is not the closest. Just google oni girl or oni princess and a ton of look alikes from free gacha games will show up.

Also interesting, top character seems to be Shuna from "That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime."

electricmastro

@Roosta:

The Strawhats aren't all super original. Zoro, Nami, Sanji, and Robin are all just normal humans with a few accents each. Saying this is like saying you can find Sanji lookalikes by googling "man in a suit" or Robin lookalikes by googling "woman".

Yep, like the idea of Zoro being based on Zorro, Nami being based on Bulma, Sanji being based on Mr. Pink, Franky being based on Ace Ventura, and Brook being based on Jack Skellington.

Solid

Id def disagree, Zoros original pre ts was quite original for its time, and three swords?? Come on.
Sanji with his eyebrows, hairstyle, fighting style too, Robin used to look very unique and while maybe Nami didnt, ive always felt her simple design has been very iconic similar to Luffy.

Roosta

@Solid:

Id def disagree, Zoros original pre ts was quite original for its time, and three swords?? Come on.
Sanji with his eyebrows, hairstyle, fighting style too, Robin used to look very unique and while maybe Nami didnt, ive always felt her simple design has been very iconic similar to Luffy.

You're just seeing what you want to see. You say Robin used to look very unique. Nami isn't original but it's OK because she's iconic… yet Yamato would be the least original Strawhat? How many of the alternative "oni princess" results that come up transform into ice breathing wolves? Yamato is one of the only characters I've seen in all of manga/anime with a three tone hair fade, and the horns also have a fade which is unique compared to other Oni designs. Yamato hybrid form has sharp teeth and is totally covered in fur, which is rare among Zoans in OP, most of whom keep their human teeth and have skin over parts of their body.

I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling this way, just saying why I disagree. I also find it amusing that a large chunk of people attribute Yamato's popularity to the design, but you're saying it's really unoriginal.

BobLoblaw

@Roosta:

You're just seeing what you want to see. You say Robin used to look very unique. Nami isn't original but it's OK because she's iconic… yet Yamato would be the least original Strawhat? How many of the alternative "oni princess" results that come up transform into ice breathing wolves? Yamato is one of the only characters I've seen in all of manga/anime with a three tone hair fade, and the horns also have a fade which is unique compared to other Oni designs. Yamato hybrid form has sharp teeth and is totally covered in fur, which is rare among Zoans in OP, most of whom keep their human teeth and have skin over parts of their body.

I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling this way, just saying why I disagree. I also find it amusing that a large chunk of people attribute Yamato's popularity to the design, but you're saying it's really unoriginal.

Yamato is going to be in regular form 99% of the time. Why would you focus on how the character looks for the 1%? And while his hair is unique in it's coloring, there are other characters in OP that have multi-colored hair (Giolla and Ulti). The horns and club are direct rips from Kaido. The obi and sandals are direct rips from Oden. The face is eerily similar to Nami's. The hybrid form looks eerily similar to a sulong mink. The regular DF form looks similar to Onimaru. You can like the design for Yamato, but there's not much unique to it, especially in the OP universe.

Roosta

@BobLoblaw:

Yamato is going to be in regular form 99% of the time. Why would you focus on how the character looks for the 1%? And while his hair is unique in it's coloring, there are other characters in OP that have multi-colored hair (Giolla and Ulti). The horns and club are direct rips from Kaido. The obi and sandals are direct rips from Oden. The face is eerily similar to Nami's. The hybrid form looks eerily similar to a sulong mink. The regular DF form looks similar to Onimaru. You can like the design for Yamato, but there's not much unique to it, especially in the OP universe.

This is fair, but I was responding to the comment that Yamato would be the least unique Strawhat.

StrawHatJedi

@Zik:

Yeah seems like the strawhats are getting a samurai (Yamato) instead of a ninja (Tama or anyone else)

If Yamato joins, I think Oda will lean more into her being an Ogre / Oni than a samurai. Zoro seems to be a far better fit for the crew's samurai / Wano representative.

electricmastro

@BobLoblaw:

The face is eerily similar to Nami's.

Hmm, nah I don't see it.

Zik

@Vongola_Boss_XI:

If Yamato joins, I think Oda will lean more into her being an Ogre / Oni than a samurai. Zoro seems to be a far better fit for the crew's samurai / Wano representative.

With Zoro it just seems to be appearances.

He's not actually one and shows little to no interest in being one or his family.

The whole being enamored with samurai and one of the more popular ones to an extreme degree, wanting to be accepted by them are all clearly part of Yamato's story.

As for being an oni, don't see a conflict there. Don't see why he can't be both. Oni samurai.
@BobLoblaw:

Yamato is going to be in regular form 99% of the time. Why would you focus on how the character looks for the 1%? And while his hair is unique in it's coloring, there are other characters in OP that have multi-colored hair (Giolla and Ulti). The horns and club are direct rips from Kaido. The obi and sandals are direct rips from Oden. The face is eerily similar to Nami's. The hybrid form looks eerily similar to a sulong mink. The regular DF form looks similar to Onimaru. You can like the design for Yamato, but there's not much unique to it, especially in the OP universe.

Actually all of those things make it unique.

In all of OP no other character has all of those things in their design.

Roosta

@electricmastro:

Hmm, nah I don't see it.

https://i.ibb.co/BPqNB5q/Unknown.jpg

While I do feel that Oda has done alright to make Yamato look reasonably distinct from other Nami-faces, I don't think you're making a fair comparison here… Different expressions, and art separated by... 20 years?

astagadragon

@Solid:

Yama-o would be the least original strawhat.

If Yamato is the least original strawhat, gee, what do you think about the other candidates… for example, one is a normal human girl and one is a rabbit with blond hair.

But yes, for argument's sake I agree that Yamato's both hybrid and beast forms are kinda underwhelming in contrast to her striking human form.

electricmastro

@Roosta:

While I do feel that Oda has done alright to make Yamato look reasonably distinct from other Nami-faces, I don't think you're making a fair comparison here… Different expressions, and art separated by... 20 years?

But I thought BobLoblaw said that Yamato looked eerily similar to Nami.

Roosta

@electricmastro:

But I thought BobLoblaw said that Yamato looked eerily similar to Nami.

I just meant that the two pictures you chose looked different partially because of how separated they are in source material. You could find a picture of Nami from Wano where she doesn't look like the first Nami picture you shared.

StrawHatJedi

@Zik:

With Zoro it just seems to be appearances.

He's not actually one and shows little to no interest in being one or his family.

The whole being enamored with samurai and one of the more popular ones to an extreme degree, wanting to be accepted by them are all clearly part of Yamato's story.

As for being an oni, don't see a conflict there. Don't see why he can't be both. Oni samurai.

Actually all of those things make it unique.

In all of OP no other character has all of those things in their design.

I think it's a bit deeper for Zoro. His instructor and childhood friend were both members of the Shimotsuki Clan and Oda has pretty heavily hinted that Zoro's own heritage is Wanoese.

Zoro's definition and pursuit of swordsmanship I think is also more closely tied to Wano than was previously apparent.

Over time, it seems Oda's association with Wano has only grown stronger as well. He's now carrying one of Oden's swords - Enma. He dueled Ryuma's zombie and returned Shusui (unwillingly), learned fire cutting from Kin'emon, and seems to be connected to Shimotsuki Ushimaru & Onimaru.

I'm not saying Yamato wouldn't continue to idolize Oden, but I anticipate part of her character arc will be setting aside the Oden costume and handing it off to Momo. With that being the case, I think the Oni / Ogre stuff isn't really an either or, but I think it's more closely tied to Yamato's core identity rather than someone she simply idolized and who inspired her rebellion.

If anything, I think her Oni / Ogre heritage is potentially the most interesting aspect of Yamato's backstory. We're still waiting to find out about that mysterious fourth group from whom Big Mom stole her Road Poneglyph and if the Ogres / Oni are somehow related to Oars / the Ancient Giants / Elbaf, then perhaps she would be as much if not more a representative of Elbaf than Wano.

I know it's unproven at this point, but the protectors of the Road Poneglyphs were seemingly some of Joyboy's closest allies, so I suspect we'll see a representative of each group as part of the Straw Hats. Jimbei for the Fishmen, Zoro for Wano, Carrot for the Minks, but the fourth group is a mystery. Maybe it's Yamato if there's an Elbaf connection somehow. I previously thought it might be Usopp given his close association with the giants. But Yamato might be a better fit depending on if any of this is accurate.

BobLoblaw

@electricmastro:

Hmm, nah I don't see it.

https://i.ibb.co/BPqNB5q/Unknown.jpg

Is this a joke? Art from Toei from 20 years ago compared to art from Toei today.

@Zik:

Actually all of those things make it unique.

In all of OP no other character has all of those things in their design.

If you want a character that is a hodge podge of traits first shown on other characters, sure.

electricmastro

@Roosta:

I just meant that the two pictures you chose looked different partially because of how separated they are in source material. You could find a picture of Nami from Wano where she doesn't look like the first Nami picture you shared.

Alright then, going only by post-timeskip, yeah, I still don't see it.

Syphin

If only Oda would play around more with skin tones. A tanned Yamato with white hair would have looked so cool.

BobLoblaw

@electricmastro:

Alright then, going only by post-timeskip, yeah, I still don't see it.

https://i.ibb.co/92WhgR0/Unknown.jpg

Why do you keep using that one frame of Toei's art and not art from the manga? Here's something from the anime that I slapped together. Introducing Yamito.

!

Zik

@Vongola_Boss_XI:

I think it's a bit deeper for Zoro. His instructor and childhood friend were both members of the Shimotsuki Clan and Oda has pretty heavily hinted that Zoro's own heritage is Wanoese.

Zoro's definition and pursuit of swordsmanship I think is also more closely tied to Wano than was previously apparent.

Over time, it seems Oda's association with Wano has only grown stronger as well. He's now carrying one of Oden's swords - Enma. He dueled Ryuma's zombie and returned Shusui (unwillingly), learned fire cutting from Kin'emon, and seems to be connected to Shimotsuki Ushimaru & Onimaru.

I'm not saying Yamato wouldn't continue to idolize Oden, but I anticipate part of her character arc will be setting aside the Oden costume and handing it off to Momo. With that being the case, I think the Oni / Ogre stuff isn't really an either or, but I think it's more closely tied to Yamato's core identity rather than someone she simply idolized and who inspired her rebellion.

If anything, I think her Oni / Ogre heritage is potentially the most interesting aspect of Yamato's backstory. We're still waiting to find out about that mysterious fourth group from whom Big Mom stole her Road Poneglyph and if the Ogres / Oni are somehow related to Oars / the Ancient Giants / Elbaf, then perhaps she would be as much if not more a representative of Elbaf than Wano.

I know it's unproven at this point, but the protectors of the Road Poneglyphs were seemingly some of Joyboy's closest allies, so I suspect we'll see a representative of each group as part of the Straw Hats. Jimbei for the Fishmen, Zoro for Wano, Carrot for the Minks, but the fourth group is a mystery. Maybe it's Yamato if there's an Elbaf connection somehow. I previously thought it might be Usopp given his close association with the giants. But Yamato might be a better fit depending on if any of this is accurate.

So far in the story to me its presented as Yamato being the one that chose to be a samurai. I don't see that being dropped in any fashion even if the 'I am Oden' stuff fades.

Zoro was given stuff, he came from something directly tied to Wano but to me he acts more like a ronin at best than resembling a Wanoese samurai.

The oni heritage may be more interesting (since its completely unexplored so far) but I don't think that changes where Yamato is at with wanting to be a samurai going back to childhood.

Plus the quirkiness of it fits well with Yamato being the odd samurai that wields a huge kanabo instead of a sword.

At the very least it seems what Yamato desires about it will make up for Zoro's complete lack of concern with being a samurai or having those traditions.
@BobLoblaw:

If you want a character that is a hodge podge of traits first shown on other characters, sure.

Sounds like just another way to describe most characters/people.@BobLoblaw:

Why do you keep using that one frame of Toei's art and not art from the manga? Here's something from the anime that I slapped together. Introducing Yamito.

! https://i.imgur.com/UXNegok.png

This is pretty trash and not good support for your stance.

BobLoblaw

@Zik:

Sounds like just another way to describe most characters/people.

Each of the SHs brought something unique that hadn't been shown prior to their reveal. Luffy's scar, Zoro's earrings (or hair color), Sanji's eyebrows, Nami's hair color, Usopp's nose, Chopper's…everything...Robin's nose, Franky's chin, Brook being a skeleton, Jinbe's skin color, his eyebrows, teeth, or whatever.

This is pretty trash and not good support for your stance.

Luckily, being "pretty trash" doesn't undermine my argument. Add horns, three eye lashes, and hair color to a B&W Nami and it looks close to Yamato.

Zik

@BobLoblaw:

Each of the SHs brought something unique that hadn't been shown prior to their reveal. Luffy's scar, Zoro's earrings (or hair color), Sanji's eyebrows, Nami's hair color, Usopp's nose, Chopper's…everything...Robin's nose, Franky's chin, Brook being a skeleton, Jinbe's skin color, his eyebrows, teeth, or whatever.

LOL

You're really pretending like Jimbe's look is unique among fishmen? From all the fishmen we've met before Impel Down? Skin color and teeth? Should've stuck with eyebrows and whatever.

Luckily, being "pretty trash" doesn't undermine my argument. Add horns, three eye lashes, and hair color to a B&W Nami and it looks close to Yamato.

It doesn't support it. That's what I said.

You sure have to add a lot of things to make Nami look like Yamato.

All I have to do is cover one eye and add a curly eyebrow to make Zoro look like Sanji.

The more you say about it the sillier it seems especially since you're serious.

The reason that crappy ps pic doesn't undermine your argument is cuz it's not really a good one to begin with.