If anything I think this chapter complicated an already complicated arc rather than do anything to resolve it.
Oh no, lets not make a logical chapter that makes perfect sense.
If anything I think this chapter complicated an already complicated arc rather than do anything to resolve it.
Oh no, lets not make a logical chapter that makes perfect sense.
I disagree with you and everyone saying Zoro would've stepped him. Luffy would've asked all crew members from stepping in and Zoro is probably the last one who would interfere.
I never said he would step in read the post. But until he apologizes and knows his place he won't accept him back in the crew same way Ussop wouldn't be allowed back in. Hitting your captain is blasphemy. Repeatedly on the head too. No one has ever violated Luffy like that the way Sanji did this chapter. Luffy is a kind soul, Zoro is savage.
And think about it Luffy told Nami to not interfere but she still slapped him. Switch Nami with Zoro in this scenario and it would be an epic beat down. Sorry if you think otherwise Zoro is the most no nonsense member of the crew.
Also Sanji actually holding a serious face with Nami, none of the "Melorine" stuff.
Sanji's brothers like the "fiery type".
LOL…i'm surprised to known that there are people that actually think that Sanji is a cold machine that will always come with a flawless rational plan capable to solve any kind of problem.I'm glad that Oda showed how much emotional he can be.
Well most of the Sanji fans are like Zoro fans that expect to see cool kicking and fights but forget that there is an actual character beyond those cool things.
@Shobu:
The circumstances when both were introduced in the crew were also different. One was claimed in the crew in a second and the other was took like just an invitation to loiter around.
Meaning Luffy really has differents grades of liking in his crew, which it's a let down by Oda. Respect in the family is something primordial, even when Luffy tries to rescue Sanji of his psychological problem, he should not play with the rest of the crew like that, it points that Usopp can't become a sea warrior because of Sanji with Lin Lin, Zoro cannot become the greatest swordman because of Sanji, Robin won't find the info regarding the Void Century, Nami won't be drawing his world map, Chopper would not find the all-cure to illness, Franky would have to wait more to see the Sunny sailing all the seas and Brook won't reach where Laboon is.
Really, what the fuck… this became a bet involving all the crew and no one knows but Luffy and Nami.
Sanji was cute… but i don't give a damn about him. Just as others said, if Zoro were here; both, Sanji & Luffy, will receive the 'chop chop' claim.
I understand, but in my opinion, this shows the faith that Luffy has in Sanji coming back. Also, that he believes, not only him, but the whole crew would not be able to reach their dreams without Sanji. At least, it wouldn't be the same, not just for Luffy, but for the others too.
I never said he would step in read the post. But until he apologizes and knows his place he won't accept him back in the crew same way Ussop wouldn't be allowed back in. Hitting your captain is blasphemy. Repeatedly on the head too. No one has ever violated Luffy like that the way Sanji did this chapter. Luffy is a kind soul, Zoro is savage.
And think about it Luffy told Nami to not interfere but she still slapped him. Switch Nami with Zoro in this scenario and it would be an epic beat down. Sorry if you think otherwise Zoro is the most no nonsense member of the crew.
But Nami is more emotional than Zoro. Plus you remember what Zoro said about just leaving Sanji alone. I doubt Zoro vs Sanji would happen here.
@Shobu:
The circumstances when both were introduced in the crew were also different. One was claimed in the crew in a second and the other was took like just an invitation to loiter around.
Meaning Luffy really has differents grades of liking in his crew, which it's a let down by Oda. Respect in the family is something primordial, even when Luffy tries to rescue Sanji of his psychological problem, he should not play with the rest of the crew like that, it points that Usopp can't become a sea warrior because of Sanji with Lin Lin, Zoro cannot become the greatest swordman because of Sanji, Robin won't find the info regarding the Void Century, Nami won't be drawing his world map, Chopper would not find the all-cure to illness, Franky would have to wait more to see the Sunny sailing all the seas and Brook won't reach where Laboon is.
Really, what the fuck… this became a bet involving all the crew and no one knows but Luffy and Nami.
Sanji was cute... but i don't give a damn about him. Just as others said, if Zoro were here; both, Sanji & Luffy, will receive the 'chop chop' claim.
….... What the hell are you trying to say here? I mean your post in spoiler thread seemed like you very obviously managed to grasp very little about Luffy's actual character. But how did you go from that to " Oda has a liking the crewmate system for Luffy"?
Really, really good post. Glad to have you posting and hoping to see that Sanji avatar more often around here.
im curious about the bolded, care to elaborate?
Well, I'll try my best. I keep a close eye on Sanji's character, so I've always noticed things that felt off about him. I might have sounded too confident in the bolded line there. I just want to mention that this is all very speculative. I would go back and find specific moments, but then this would turn into meta for sure, so I'll just mention them briefly.
I guess the biggest clue for me is how self-sacrificial Sanji has always been. I know everyone in the crew would do anything for each other. I know Luffy and Zoro in particular take on this protective role alongside Sanji. But something about the way Sanji has thrown himself in danger for the sake of others has always felt slightly more unhinged, and makes a lot of sense if you consider that he doesn't value his life very much. And I haven't counted, but I get the impression he's probably done it the most out of anyone? Not always in a controlled way like Luffy or Zoro's saves - very often out of desperation. I'm talking about moments like his interference with Doffy, Vergo, Enel, the two saves he attempted for Zoro against Kuma on TB, the Pacifista on Sabaody when it threatened Usopp, Zoro and Brook's lives (that whole part in particular got him really frazzled because he had failed), throwing Luffy and Nami out of the path of the avalanche on Drum Island. I haven't reread the series in a while so correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember many of his major fights revolving around his opponents underestimating his ability to protect and Sanji usually getting all fired up when they do, like it's a sore spot for him. He just seemed so determined to prove them wrong, to show them that he can protect his friends. His early fight with Kuroobi is a big example of this.
This is kind of an interesting thing I want to mention. A while back someone expressed to me that one of the major differences between Zoro and Sanji is that Zoro is fighting to be the best while Sanji always seems to be fighting to be good enough. Ever since I've always been inclined to see it this way, it makes a whole lot of sense. Even their starkly different dreams demonstrate this. Finding All Blue has nothing to do with power, of standing on top of the world, it's simply about being strong enough to keep believing in it until he finds it.
Branching off of that, many aspects of Sanji's character kind of give off this vibe of him wanting to be good enough, to live up to people's expectations like he feels as though he's on the verge of failure. His rivalry with Zoro has, in my opinion, stemmed from this or at least part of it. The entire Baratie arc was a goldmine for these strange little moments. It dealt with Sanji "releasing" that debt from Zeff that kept a stranglehold on his life and dreams, after all. Luffy had to shake this fact into him: "You don't pay someone back by dying". Someone who doesn't value their life would have to be told this. I used to argue that he never released these issues completely after that arc because I could still see bits and pieces of it (mostly in the way he throws his life around like it's worth nothing), which led me to believe something big was going to be revealed for Sanji, and that his character would be dealt with further. I had hoped, anyway, and have been rewarded, because he's really gotten the short end of the stick post timeskip.
It's the small, really speculative things too. Such as the fact that we don't often see him eating with the crew, only serving them. He works very hard to keep them well-fed, yet we rarely see him eat with them. Not to say he's not eating, but I'd wager it's not as much as his friends, especially because he likely eats after cleaning up, where Luffy wouldn't have left much. It's the kind of thing where if the crew was stranded at sea with a limited food supply, I could totally see Sanji taking it upon himself to limit his intake more than the others. I think he'd feel it's his duty as a cook, which of course is just not right. Sanji is an overall caretaker, a nurturer, a protector for the crew, and naturally people in these positions can forget to take care of themselves and in some cases, actually put themselves in a nurturing position to overcompensate for something, subconsciously. It suits Sanji to a T, now more than ever, that he would want to be of value to others like this. Hell, his most genuine happy moments are probably when he's feeding people, when he's being useful to them at their most primal level. I know that's like beyond speculation, but it clicks for me, perhaps due to the impression I get about him devaluing his life.
I know I'm not breaking this down as well as I'd like to. I really have to go back and reread the manga to do that, I feel like I'm missing key points. But these are just some things I've picked up and thought deeply about along the way.
This guy really gets it.
Someone give this guy an award amazing post friend and welcome officially to AP.
Hey thanks! I'm actually a girl. :ninja:
Aye Sanji's reaction is totally, "I am going to pull a mr.prince"
No hotlinking allowed, brah.
And yeah, that's my whole point.
Oh well, at least this chapter did not follow a break
One way to get out of the Zeff problem would be to have someone from either Germa or Mom's crew call whoever they sent to capture Zeff and have Zeff instead pick up the den-den instead. He'll give some speech to Sanji about not having to worry about him since he can handle himself and not to give up on following your dream.
Well first that would require Sanji to mess up and put Zeff's life completely at risk
Then there's that level of acceptability that a retired East Blue pirate and his crew can overpower a powerful military nation that was wreaking havoc on East Blue 13 years ago. And that Big Mom wouldn't be involved at all.
-Snip-
I do like your analysis of things. And I do agree with a lot of your points. He does seem to be doing his nest to be good enough but not the best. Even his cooking doesn't necessarily seem to have the stipulation of "best chef" but best at what he does in order to ensure the health snd well being of the crew. He's not trying to out do anyone in that regard. The only time I'd say we see him trying to out do anyone is when he's being competitive with Zoro.
Argh I do wish Zoro could have been alomg for this since they have much more of a sibling rivalry aspect. But I can see why Oda may have wanted to give Zoro a break since he got to be active in Dressrosa all the way through.
No hotlinking allowed, brah.
And yeah, that's my whole point.
Your point actually contradicts your previous statement because recent researches showed that Sanji was good.
I liked this chapter overall, but, I'm disappointed that Nami didn't seem to see through Sanji's act like Luffy did.
Are Luffy's teeth made of rubber? If yes, then why did he lose one?
But Nami is more emotional than Zoro. Plus you remember what Zoro said about just leaving Sanji alone. I doubt Zoro vs Sanji would happen here.
it won't be Zoro vs sanji it would be just Zoro whaling on him. They have respect for each other but they also quarrel a lot if he sees someone who holds a lot of value and respect in the crew behave this way….
All you guys here arguing about Zoro probably forget that his reckless way of the sword would probably end up getting the Strawhats in a worse situation here. On the other hand, it would be great seeing him come to terms with this side of Sanji, and actually acting like Luffy is acting right now, or feeling empathy towards Sanji in his own swordsman's way. Wtf would cutting Sanji's arms do good here besides killing Zeff and destroying his hands? You guys criticize Sanji for not understanding that Luffy won't stop but you seem to be about as dumb as he is being, but without that whole "do I get my father killed and my hands (and therefore all my reason for being in the crew and my dream) or do I try to avoid everything bad and panic and do smth stupid but at least I avoid the apocalypse"
! Well, I'll try my best. I keep a close eye on Sanji's character, so I've always noticed things that felt off about him. I might have sounded too confident in the bolded line there. I just want to mention that this is all very speculative. I would go back and find specific moments, but then this would turn into meta for sure, so I'll just mention them briefly.
! I guess the biggest clue for me is how self-sacrificial Sanji has always been. I know everyone in the crew would do anything for each other. I know Luffy and Zoro in particular take on this protective role alongside Sanji. But something about the way Sanji has thrown himself in danger for the sake of others has always felt slightly more unhinged, and makes a lot of sense if you consider that he doesn't value his life very much. And I haven't counted, but I get the impression he's probably done it the most out of anyone? Not always in a controlled way like Luffy or Zoro's saves - very often out of desperation. I'm talking about moments like his interference with Doffy, Vergo, Enel, the two saves he attempted for Zoro against Kuma on TB, the Pacifista on Sabaody when it threatened Usopp, Zoro and Brook's lives (that whole part in particular got him really frazzled because he had failed), throwing Luffy and Nami out of the path of the avalanche on Drum Island. I haven't reread the series in a while so correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember many of his major fights revolving around his opponents underestimating his ability to protect and Sanji usually getting all fired up when they do, like it's a sore spot for him. He just seemed so determined to prove them wrong, to show them that he can protect his friends. His early fight with Kuroobi is a big example of this.
! This is kind of an interesting thing I want to mention. A while back someone expressed to me that one of the major differences between Zoro and Sanji is that Zoro is fighting to be the best while Sanji always seems to be fighting to be good enough. Ever since I've always been inclined to see it this way, it makes a whole lot of sense. Even their starkly different dreams demonstrate this. Finding All Blue has nothing to do with power, of standing on top of the world, it's simply about being strong enough to keep believing in it until he finds it.
! Branching off of that, many aspects of Sanji's character kind of give off this vibe of him wanting to be good enough, to live up to people's expectations like he feels as though he's on the verge of failure. His rivalry with Zoro has, in my opinion, stemmed from this or at least part of it. The entire Baratie arc was a goldmine for these strange little moments. It dealt with Sanji "releasing" that debt from Zeff that kept a stranglehold on his life and dreams, after all. Luffy had to shake this fact into him: "You don't pay someone back by dying". Someone who doesn't value their life would have to be told this. I used to argue that he never released these issues completely after that arc because I could still see bits and pieces of it (mostly in the way he throws his life around like it's worth nothing), which led me to believe something big was going to be revealed for Sanji, and that his character would be dealt with further. I had hoped, anyway, and have been rewarded, because he's really gotten the short end of the stick post timeskip.
! It's the small, really speculative things too. Such as the fact that we don't often see him eating with the crew, only serving them. He works very hard to keep them well-fed, yet we rarely see him eat with them. Not to say he's not eating, but I'd wager it's not as much as his friends, especially because he likely eats after cleaning up, where Luffy wouldn't have left much. It's the kind of thing where if the crew was stranded at sea with a limited food supply, I could totally see Sanji taking it upon himself to limit his intake more than the others. I think he'd feel it's his duty as a cook, which of course is just not right. Sanji is an overall caretaker, a nurturer, a protector for the crew, and naturally people in these positions can forget to take care of themselves and in some cases, actually put themselves in a nurturing position to overcompensate for something, subconsciously. It suits Sanji to a T, now more than ever, that he would want to be of value to others like this. Hell, his most genuine happy moments are probably when he's feeding people, when he's being useful to them at their most primal level. I know that's like beyond speculation, but it clicks for me, perhaps due to the impression I get about him devaluing his life.
! I know I'm not breaking this down as well as I'd like to. I really have to go back and reread the manga to do that, I feel like I'm missing key points. But these are just some things I've picked up and thought deeply about along the way.
No, I can see what you're picking up on perfectly, caretakers do tend to be sacrificial and Sanji does tend to go solo on impossible missions. I do not think Oda fleshed it out specifically throughout the series, and the self-worth may be only a stretched interpretation out of many others, but maybe now's the time when he expands on this side of his as we finally get to the turning point in Sanji's head. He's definitely a caretaker and very self-sacrificial though, and that's enough to be taking this all on himself while being conflicted with the burden of Zeff's life and his hands.
I liked this chapter overall, but, I'm disappointed that Nami didn't seem to see through Sanji's act like Luffy did.
In my interpretation she saw through it, hence the slap being just a cold angry message for him being stupid and for just going too far with this farce. At least, I hope that's it lol
! Well, I'll try my best. I keep a close eye on Sanji's character, so I've always noticed things that felt off about him. I might have sounded too confident in the bolded line there. I just want to mention that this is all very speculative. I would go back and find specific moments, but then this would turn into meta for sure, so I'll just mention them briefly.
! I guess the biggest clue for me is how self-sacrificial Sanji has always been. I know everyone in the crew would do anything for each other. I know Luffy and Zoro in particular take on this protective role alongside Sanji. But something about the way Sanji has thrown himself in danger for the sake of others has always felt slightly more unhinged, and makes a lot of sense if you consider that he doesn't value his life very much. And I haven't counted, but I get the impression he's probably done it the most out of anyone? Not always in a controlled way like Luffy or Zoro's saves - very often out of desperation. I'm talking about moments like his interference with Doffy, Vergo, Enel, the two saves he attempted for Zoro against Kuma on TB, the Pacifista on Sabaody when it threatened Usopp, Zoro and Brook's lives (that whole part in particular got him really frazzled because he had failed), throwing Luffy and Nami out of the path of the avalanche on Drum Island. I haven't reread the series in a while so correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember many of his major fights revolving around his opponents underestimating his ability to protect and Sanji usually getting all fired up when they do, like it's a sore spot for him. He just seemed so determined to prove them wrong, to show them that he can protect his friends. His early fight with Kuroobi is a big example of this.
! This is kind of an interesting thing I want to mention. A while back someone expressed to me that one of the major differences between Zoro and Sanji is that Zoro is fighting to be the best while Sanji always seems to be fighting to be good enough. Ever since I've always been inclined to see it this way, it makes a whole lot of sense. Even their starkly different dreams demonstrate this. Finding All Blue has nothing to do with power, of standing on top of the world, it's simply about being strong enough to keep believing in it until he finds it.
! Branching off of that, many aspects of Sanji's character kind of give off this vibe of him wanting to be good enough, to live up to people's expectations like he feels as though he's on the verge of failure. His rivalry with Zoro has, in my opinion, stemmed from this or at least part of it. The entire Baratie arc was a goldmine for these strange little moments. It dealt with Sanji "releasing" that debt from Zeff that kept a stranglehold on his life and dreams, after all. Luffy had to shake this fact into him: "You don't pay someone back by dying". Someone who doesn't value their life would have to be told this. I used to argue that he never released these issues completely after that arc because I could still see bits and pieces of it (mostly in the way he throws his life around like it's worth nothing), which led me to believe something big was going to be revealed for Sanji, and that his character would be dealt with further. I had hoped, anyway, and have been rewarded, because he's really gotten the short end of the stick post timeskip.
! It's the small, really speculative things too. Such as the fact that we don't often see him eating with the crew, only serving them. He works very hard to keep them well-fed, yet we rarely see him eat with them. Not to say he's not eating, but I'd wager it's not as much as his friends, especially because he likely eats after cleaning up, where Luffy wouldn't have left much. It's the kind of thing where if the crew was stranded at sea with a limited food supply, I could totally see Sanji taking it upon himself to limit his intake more than the others. I think he'd feel it's his duty as a cook, which of course is just not right. Sanji is an overall caretaker, a nurturer, a protector for the crew, and naturally people in these positions can forget to take care of themselves and in some cases, actually put themselves in a nurturing position to overcompensate for something, subconsciously. It suits Sanji to a T, now more than ever, that he would want to be of value to others like this. Hell, his most genuine happy moments are probably when he's feeding people, when he's being useful to them at their most primal level. I know that's like beyond speculation, but it clicks for me, perhaps due to the impression I get about him devaluing his life.
! I know I'm not breaking this down as well as I'd like to. I really have to go back and reread the manga to do that, I feel like I'm missing key points. But these are just some things I've picked up and thought deeply about along the way.
! Hey thanks! I'm actually a girl. :ninja:
I didn't dislike the chapter, as Oda did a great job of making me feel the plight of the characters, but I was a little bit disappointed by Sanjis behavior. I really expected him to come up with some kind of plan here, as many others did. But damn, your amazing posts made me view Sanji in a completely different light and made me appreciate the chapter a lot more! That's a great analysis of his character!
….... What the hell are you trying to say here? I mean your post in spoiler thread seemed like you very obviously managed to grasp very little about Luffy's actual character. But how did you go from that to " Oda has a liking the crewmate system for Luffy"?
The Luffy' system is:
Sanji "food" > all the crew.
!
Here i have this other Luffy, saying what thinks about death compared to his dream… what's Luffy doing right now? Starving to death for keeping Sanji alongside him. Where is the respect to himself and the others sharing her dream? Sanji will have to be attached to Luffy forever?
If he says this... why he let out Usopp just because a ship? why stopped to Zoro when talking about respect between the crew? why he didn't requested his help when supposedly he's always right and said it to Nami and Robin.
This selfishly pussy attitude is one of the thing i don't like about Luffy, he's a mere child screaming shit, as main character he only serves to hype for a battle, usually all his decision are made wrong.
Argh I do wish Zoro could have been alomg for this since they have much more of a sibling rivalry aspect. But I can see why Oda may have wanted to give Zoro a break since he got to be active in Dressrosa all the way through.
I'm pretty bummed about Zoro not being there. It seems to me Oda's been laying some bricks for another seriously epic moment with those two (something like a follow up/parallel to TB), and so much of this arc would have set something like this up perfectly. But, I also think Zoro would be especially harsh on Sanji after seeing him at such a low. I'm not sure if this would help matters or hinder them. I'm of the opinion that their rivalry keeps Sanji sharp and encourages him to measure up, so it's definitely interesting to speculate. Also, it's just unfair in general that the crew can't all be together to save their nakama. It's always been that way before. But I understand they're juggling a lot more in the New World than ever before. The Kaido issue is just as pressing, if not more so, so I get it. It just sucks. I'll bet Oda didn't even want to write it this way but had to force his own hand haha.
I wonder if it's possible Luffy will call for the rest of the crew? That translation about Zoro and co already arriving on Wano ended up being wrong, right?
No, I can see what you're picking up on perfectly, caretakers do tend to be sacrificial and Sanji does tend to go solo on impossible missions. I do not think Oda fleshed it out specifically throughout the series, and the self-worth may be only a stretched interpretation out of many others, but maybe now's the time when he expands on this side of his as we finally get to the turning point in Sanji's head. He's definitely a caretaker and very self-sacrificial though, and that's enough to be taking this all on himself and conflicted with the burden of Zeff's life and his hands.
Good, I'm glad that came across alright. I'm genuinely curious how much Oda has thought about Sanji's "second backstory" since the Baratie arc. I also wonder if or when he plans to give us more deets on Brook and Zoro. Zoro's character doesn't really need it (though I'd welcome it), but Brook I want to read about.
So that's what 'Sopp vs Roof would've looked like if Usopp had been able to hurt him.
That overhead kick that knocked him out was fricking brutal
Hell right now Luffy and other SH made things worst on Sanji right now.
Right now how the hell is luffy going get away from big mom crew .
I hate to say it, but I think there is a good chance Nami and Luffy will be captured. Big Mom is going to go ape shit once she finds out that Luffy defeated Cracker. Right now all of the fighting spirit has been sucked out of Luffy's and Nami's body by Sanji's pride/refusal. Chopper and Carrot are still in mirror world, Pedro and Brook are already in the castle, and Jinbei's fate is unknown. Things are definitely not looking up!
Where's Law when you need him.
Angsty bastard better get with the hand transplantation.
Sorry if I did overkill. Had a lot to say.
This is a spectacular first post. You have nothing to apologize for lol. I liked reading your analytical evaluation of Sanji's character arc focusing on having low self-esteem this arc, and his frequent traits of selflessness. I would also throw in fighting Mr. 2 and wanting to get Usopp's glasses back. If you need to say something, then feel free to say it. Honest and passionate feedback is always appreciated.
Luffy was great during this chapter. His statements of faith towards Sanji's capability in helping Luffy become Pirate King and not wanting to fight back were powerful. And seeing Sanji's dismay with his actions was unsettling, but worked well for drama. I still think this scene dynamic is too similar to Nami and Robin, especially at this point of the story, for my taste. But the execution of how far Oda took it and how Sanji has to deal with Luffy starving because of him will be very interesting to explore.
I can sort of back Sanji's actions this chapter from a characterization perspective of his conflicted ego, obligation to Zeff (as seen with how strict he follows the chivalry code and being stubborn about leaving the Baratie due to the life saving debt), and how his actions earlier got Cosette beaten. His personality and trauma coming at him at the same time as Luffy's unexpected arrival is going to push him towards a hasty ultimatum. I can understand those factors inhibiting him to be submissive completely.
However, I still don't back his actions as being logical or completely justifiable from an objective perspective. He completely gave up without any effort to even give his friends the benefit of the doubt after all they've been through. And I'm not saying this as if Sanji can just flip a switch to turn into Mr. Prince and hatch up some genius plan. What I am saying is that giving into despair, even in a hostage situation, when powerful friends who have proven themselves countless times are there to help you is not the way to go. He knows that his crewmates aren't going to give up by just putting up a facade and a fight. There's no conceivable way for Nami and Luffy to help out with the Zeff and explosive situation, sure, but that still doesn't mean that the best course of action is to bare all of the responsibility onto himself and hope that a golden opportunity comes by. That's not being smart, that's just accepting defeat.
Yes, the Vinsmokes were there watching Sanji and he needed to put up a convincing act. I get that. But you want to know what this situation reminds me of? Cocoyashi Village in a few big ways. Such as how Nami put up her own facade in front of the Arlong Pirates by pretending to be greedy, attacking Usopp, provoking him into throwing a smoke bomb, and then faking his death by stabbing her hand with a random knife. All on the spot too due to not expecting the Straw Hats to come back for her. Also, her motivations behind her actions were to protect the Cocoyashi Village citizens from not being killed by the Arlong Pirates on the off chance that Luffy's crew acted up. To the point of pretending to join Arlong's crew by getting a tattoo and stealing treasure for them in order buy the island. Yet it turned out that the citizens knew it was a ruse all along and they ended up marching to their deaths for a revolution while Nami felt so responsible that she started stabbing the shoulder where the tattoo. That basic situation dynamic is a LOT like Sanji's in regards to the facade, protecting people he cares about, beating up crewmates as a ruse, and bearing all of the responsibility only to inevitably get screwed over without accepting help.
If Oda wanted to, he could have been more creative with how Sanji could have played all of this. Like provoking Nami with held back attacks akin to the Kalifa fight to make her use weather in a similar way to Usopp's smoke bomb for cover. Or by trying to take the fight to the forest and coming back with a beaten up Luffy. And I'm just never going to buy the excuse people bring up of Big Mom's crew being intimidating as an overwhelming threat they're not familiar with. Because the whole point of that scene where Usopp burns the flag in Enies Lobby is that the Straw Hats are going to tackle any type of overlooking threat to save their comrades, no matter how big the opposing faction. So even in regards to Sanji's psyche, that can't and shouldn't be a factor thematically and sensibly.
And people discredit Luffy's reasoning way too much. Yes, he's a complete dullard and turns to fists as his first line of action when a villain is around. But when someone is in danger or if the situation is clearly not winnable, he can have a level head. One example is back in Alabasta when Crocodile whipped up a sandstorm in the direction of where Kohza's father, Toto, was digging up a spring. Luffy immediately became enraged, but literally begged Crocodile several times to stop his actions due to Toto not having anything to do with their fight. Same goes for Sabaody Archipelago when he saw how his crew was clearly outmatched by the likes of Kuma, Sentomaru, and Kizaru surrounding them. He told his crew to run after seeing how everybody had to go all-out to beat one Pacifista and how Zoro was extremely wounded and unable to fight. In fact, he even yelled his attacks to Fujitora just because he liked him and give respect to someone who was blind. If he knows Sanji's hands can get blown off and that Zeff's got a hit put out on him, he will not risk their lives through hasty action by slugging Judge's jaw. Nami's also there to reason with him, and he'll listen because Nami is also a close friend and can relate deeply due to her Arlong Park experiences.
And Sanji is not going to be able to get out of this marriage on his own. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see that happen as a credit to his character. But it's not how Oda works with Luffy consistently being given the role of saving and inspiring his friends. If Law couldn't be an exception in Dressrosa, then neither will Sanji. We can't bank on him waiting to find an opportunity when he's clearly refused help in an already helpless situation. Reiju might help out a bit, but that's literally it unless he somehow comes across Jimbei or something.
I'm cool with the chapter and Sanji. But he shouldn't get away with a slap on the wrist once this situation is solved. He made this situation more complex by trying to play the lone wolf, and unlike Nami and Robin, knows what the Straw Hats are capable of. If Usopp had to plead for forgiveness for fighting Luffy, then Sanji better be ready to commit seppuku or something to realize the error in his ways. At the end of the day, I would have preferred for a more unique execution of this crewmate drama. But I'm with it as is and it suits Sanji. I'm just still not going to completely excuse Vinsmoke Sanji's action choices from a logical perspective. This manga beats us over the head with how we have to rely on our friends to help us out in dire circumstances, and this won't be any different.
I hope Luffy's tooth grows back :/
I hope Luffy's tooth grows back :/
He'll get a new one, made out of blackest ambition in the land.
It'll be good for his pirate image to have a blackend tooth
He'll get a new one, made out of blackest ambition in the land.
It'll be good for his pirate image to have a blackend tooth
But his beautiful smile :( Who knows; Rubber teeth might grow back.
@Count:
post of a lot of words
Count Mario making people feel better about their big posts by making big posts himself. I like it.
Good writing
But his beautiful smile :( Who knows; Rubber teeth might grow back.
Beautiful smiles don't go with ambitious peg-legs and CoA eyepatches tho
Beautiful smiles don't go with ambitious peg-legs and CoA eyepatches tho
No but I wonder if Oda will commit to drawing Luffy with that tooth missing from now on. I don't recall if we have had any main character get teeth knocked out before.
Beautiful smiles don't go with ambitious peg-legs and CoA eyepatches tho
Peg-legs and eyepatches can't even come close to the power of the Afro though.
No but I wonder if Oda will commit to drawing Luffy with that tooth missing from now on. I don't recall if we have had any main character get teeth knocked out before.
Usopp. Like multiple times
Usopp. Like multiple times
Probably correct. Can't remember right now, but that's on me.
Peg-legs and eyepatches can't even come close to the power of the Afro though.
Oh the old afros vs peg-legs debate eh.
The only fair solution is to have the count write up a ten page summary on the heraldic symbolism of western afros in eastern manga.
Beats people wondering why a relentless dumbass gets kicked in the face to make him relent.
Probably correct. Can't remember right now, but that's on me.
When he took a bat to the face in Alabasta. And more recently in Dressrosa the first time he fought Sugar.
Side note. Trying a search for Ussop brings up a surprising amount of Sanji x Ussop fan art lol.
Count Mario making people feel better about their big posts by making big posts himself. I like it.
Good writing
Thank you. I try to be as succinct as possible, but bring up direct examples in a manga and pointing out the logic and situation similarities can drag out my posts.
How are we talking about permanently losing teeth in One Piece and somehow not bringing up this handsome individual?
He's darkness, alright. The darkness between your gums.
Now this makes the list complete:
Luffy vs Luffy (Ch.478)
Luffy vs Zoro (Ch.112)
Luffy vs Sanji (Ch.844)
Luffy vs Usopp (Ch.332)
Luffy vs Franky (Ch.336)
Which one do you prefer?
for me this chapter win.
@Bon:
Now this makes the list complete:
Luffy vs Luffy (Ch.478)
Luffy vs Zoro (Ch.112)
Luffy vs Sanji (Ch.844)
Luffy vs Usopp (Ch.332)
Luffy vs Franky (Ch.336)Which one do you prefer?
for me this chapter win.
You left out Luffy vs. Fropper
Luffy vs Nami
Amd Luffy vs Robin lol.
You left out Luffy vs. Fropper
Luffy vs Nami
Amd Luffy vs Robin lol.
because they don't exist.he was referring to chapter with that title pattern
also,i'd say i prefer luffy vs zoro and luffy vs usopp myself
because they don't exist.he was referring to chapter with that title pattern
Exactly.
16 characters
Ah okay. I thought it was just the altercations lol.
So that's what 'Sopp vs Roof would've looked like if Usopp had been able to hurt him.
That overhead kick that knocked him out was fricking brutal
I see a lot of people talking about the usopp fight and the key difference is usopp wanted to fight luffy, he even makes it point to say, win or lose this is what you wanted, while he can clearly see something is holding sanji back/ forcing him into this act. I believe luffy wouldnt have fought usopp if he was being forced to fight like sanji is here. If sanji meant what he said, luffy would have fought him.
because they don't exist.he was referring to chapter with that title pattern
also,i'd say i prefer luffy vs zoro and luffy vs usopp myself
It's hard to compare. Zoro vs Luffy is hilarious, and Sunkist/'Sopp vs Luff are heartwrenching.
Like it's hard to compare the battle of the meat to the battle over merry's soul
It's hard to compare. Zoro vs Luffy is hilarious, and Sunkist/'Sopp vs Luff are heartwrenching.
Like it's hard to compare the battle of the meat to the battle over merry's soul
luffy vs zoro wasn't just about meat,imo.
this is just my interpretation(and someone else's which i am basing it on) but luffy vs zoro was also about basically control.not directly,but indirectly.zoro wanted to do everything by himself.but he learns that he just couldn't do that with Luffy.in the end,with luffy being luffy he just has to keep his captain in the loop,and he can't be his caretaker and can't treat him like say ace or sabo would .
luffy vs zoro wasn't just about meat,imo.
this is just my interpretation(and someone else's which i am basing it on) but luffy vs zoro was also about basically control.not directly,but indirectly.zoro wanted to do everything by himself.but he learns that he just couldn't do that with Luffy.in the end,with luffy being luffy he just has to keep his captain in the loop,and he can't be his caretaker and can't treat him like say ace or sabo would .
You got all of that out of fat Luffy trying to whale on Zoro because he thought Zoro beat up all the nice meat givers?
You got all of that out of fat Luffy trying to whale on Zoro because he thought Zoro beat up all the nice meat givers?
lol pretty much.remember why luffy misunderstood in the first place that the villagers were not bad guys?because zoro kept him out of the loop.at least after coming to whiskey peak,zoro remembered about Baroque works.but instead of informing luffy and others,he chose to,somewhat arrogantly take on the bounty hunters himself and let luffy and the other rest.in the end,it just turned into a mess with luffy getting pissed off.
but like i said,that's just my interpretation
lol pretty much.remember why luffy misunderstood in the first place that the villagers were not bad guys?because zoro kept him out of the loop.at least after coming to whiskey peak,zoro remembered about Baroque works.but instead of informing luffy and others,he chose to,somewhat arrogantly take on the bounty hunters himself and let luffy and the other rest.in the end,it just turned into a mess with luffy getting pissed off.
but like i said,that's just my interpretation
He took on the bounty hunters cause everyone else but Nami was passed out and the bounty hunters were scrubs. Which he did. Then Luffy got up to pee and saw the aftermath. He literally says he thought Zoro was mad at the townsfolk because they didn't have any more booze. Luffy was pissed because they gave him meat and he's always grateful to people that give him food.