Also, a theory: Law's actually dead. Last time we saw him, he was smiling. Since he landed face down, we can't see his smile right now, but it's there.
No, it's not (lower left panel).
Chapter 780: "The Heart's Curse"
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Dang, I always miss the interesting stuff when it pops up.
I do want to see some of the other Supernovas and what they are up to. I liked the idea of Capone and the mafia type thing he had going on. I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the people in the underground deals to be honest. So maybe we'll get something about him at the end of this arc when we see the effects of Doflamingos defeat. Uroge had a cool design, but not sure what to think of him. Don't hate him, but not exactly one that I'm itching to see. Want to see more of Apoo, cause he was an interesting one with his music theme going on, but that won't be till the Big Mom stuff.
Never quite got the Law hate. Even before this arc, it's not like he was the brooding character that people made him out to be. Especially on Punk Hazard when he started working with the straw hats, we saw him show other emotions besides smug and calm. Only reason I saw people not liking him at the time was he was constantly being called the Sasuke of the series, for reasons beyond me.
Really interested to see the direction things go after this arc.
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@Aokiji'sMissingLeg:
True, Spandam doesn't represent the WG alone. But he's not punished for his ways whatsoever. What he's doing is clearly wrong, yet the government is clearly okay with it.
Sakazuki's decision making isn't morally right, in anyway whatsoever. Because, if it was, the story wouldn't make us sympathize with Robin and Saul's plight.
If Sakazuki's decision was just about following orders, then he would have been portrayed as someone who just follows orders in spite of his moral leanings. But he isn't. He's clearly someone who hates any pirate no matter who they are, is willing to lie and trick Squard to get Whitebeard, and is willing to kill Coby, a fellow marine, to get what he wants with no regrets whatsoever. He's unabiguously portrayed as a bad guy.
The WG and the Marines aren't portrayed as good guys with some bad apples. It's exactly the opposite. Good guys in the marines, such as Smoker and Aokiji, are the exception and not the rule. Think of how many bad guys were used in Enies Lobby: CP9, Spandam, Bakersville, the so-called 11 "Just" Jurymen, Corgi(the government officlal trying to get Iceburg to reveal his secrets). They even tricked the two giants Oimo and Kashii to do their dirty work for them! The only ones portrayed as unambiguously good were Captain T-Bone and some marine grunts.
I am not saying that Sakazuki's decision was morally correct. And neither am I praising the World Government.
But just because something lies on Moral Boundaries doesn't necessarily make it a bad decision. The Ohara people were to be exterminated the Government.
If Sakazuki hadn't destroyed the ship, there may have been some survivors who will just result in another such incident or much worse, the Weapon revival itself.
Don't tell me you think all the innocents were able to get on the ship. There were undoubtedly many innocent casualties in the incident and another Buster Call would lead to even more casualties than destroying the Survivor ship.
It probably wasn't the best choice to make, but it isn't as unjustified as you are implying.I would say the World Government had more of a responsibility for the incident than Sakazuki himself. I don't think he had too much information on the actual motives of the people.
He, along with the other marines were informed how Poneglyph readers are dangerous to the World by higher authories.
Now, I don't know what the Void Century hides. Maybe it has some cartoonishly evil representation of WG, in which case the Government would be at fault while Sakazuki would be another of countless tricked people. Or maybe something which again lies on Moral Event Horizon thus, explaining the Roger's Crew's actions(or lack thereof).Marines haven't been show to be as evil as you imply too. Sure, there have been a lot of Marines who are more extreme in their ways.
But if we are to go by count, most of the Marines are just order following people risking their lives against dangerous monsters.
It's the top officials where any kind of good/bad character can even be argued. And there have been a significant number of Marines on the "good" side too. As well as Marines who are hard to understand(Kizaru is the best example).
I see Marines as a mixed kind of Place, just like the pirates. Oda hasn't made any institute obviously good or obviously evil.
If Oda went to the length of showing Homing, I don't really see why anyone would believe in an institution being completely "bad".Finally, about the Squardo incident. I don't like that incident.
No because it was wrong or something. (Usopp make Kaku and Jabra fight and it's alright, Sakazuki does somthing similar to White beard and Squardo and it's suddenly wrong?)
But rather because it was foolish move to make. I can't believe an Admiral actually thought that Squardo would be so easily tricked.
Of course, he actually believed what Sakazuki said, but it could have been the other way around and considering how Whitebeard and his crew/allies call each other family, I would have bet Squardo won't betray his "pops".
An Admiral going for such cheap tricks wasn't really fun to watch. -
@The:
Never quite got the Law hate. Even before this arc, it's not like he was the brooding character that people made him out to be. Especially on Punk Hazard when he started working with the straw hats, we saw him show other emotions besides smug and calm. Only reason I saw people not liking him at the time was he was constantly being called the Sasuke of the series, for reasons beyond me.
Law's really funny - in the same way Zoro is - and he is cool, but I think he's taken too much of the spotlight from the Strawhats. I don't mind all of the arc-specific characters, like Kyros or Leo or whoever, getting lots of time, but in Punk Hazard, he came up with a plan, he moved the plot (everything Luffy and Smoker did was, more or less, as Law directed), he beat an opponent that Zoro lost to (Yeti Cool Bros, cheap as they were) AND an opponent that Sanji and Smoker lost to (What, full body Haki? My Haki is over 9000, tardo, eat this), AND out-doctored Chopper. On top of that he's been the central character in Dressrosa. Yeah, I liked his flashback. I do like the guy.
But he makes me feel like I'm reading Law Piece. Not One Piece. I know it'll work itself out properly, whatever form that may take. I just want him to quit crapping all over the rest of the cast. If he dies and is then revived…in what way am I supposed to accept that!? If Luffy can't beat Doffy without his help, in what way am I supposed to accept that!? Law Piece or One Piece?
I pick One Piece, thanks.
Gah, I'm being more negative than I intend to be, and I apologize for that. I'm just upset about Law's takeover of the series. Maybe I'm overreacting, and I'm sure that when I look back on this arc later, I'll wonder what the heck was wrong with me.
But right now, he gets on my nerves. And I'm going to express that.
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The only reason i like Law is because he's willing to go around flipping people off and that's the only reason I need.
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I am not saying that Sakazuki's decision was morally correct. And neither am I praising the World Government.
But just because something lies on Moral Boundaries doesn't necessarily make it a bad decision. The Ohara people were to be exterminated the Government.
If Sakazuki hadn't destroyed the ship, there may have been some survivors who will just result in another such incident or much worse, the Weapon revival itself.
Don't tell me you think all the innocents were able to get on the ship. There were undoubtedly many innocent casualties in the incident and another Buster Call would lead to even more casualties than destroying the Survivor ship.
It probably wasn't the best choice to make, but it isn't as unjustified as you are implying.I would say the World Government had more of a responsibility for the incident than Sakazuki himself. I don't think he had too much information on the actual motives of the people.
He, along with the other marines were informed how Poneglyph readers are dangerous to the World by higher authories.
Now, I don't know what the Void Century hides. Maybe it has some cartoonishly evil representation of WG, in which case the Government would be at fault while Sakazuki would be another of countless tricked people. Or maybe something which again lies on Moral Event Horizon thus, explaining the Roger's Crew's actions(or lack thereof).Marines haven't been show to be as evil as you imply too. Sure, there have been a lot of Marines who are more extreme in their ways.
But if we are to go by count, most of the Marines are just order following people risking their lives against dangerous monsters.
It's the top officials where any kind of good/bad character can even be argued. And there have been a significant number of Marines on the "good" side too. As well as Marines who are hard to understand(Kizaru is the best example).
I see Marines as a mixed kind of Place, just like the pirates. Oda hasn't made any institute obviously good or obviously evil.
If Oda went to the length of showing Homing, I don't really see why anyone would believe in an institution being completely "bad".Finally, about the Squardo incident. I don't like that incident.
No because it was wrong or something. (Usopp make Kaku and Jabra fight and it's alright, Sakazuki does somthing similar to White beard and Squardo and it's suddenly wrong?)
But rather because it was foolish move to make. I can't believe an Admiral actually thought that Squardo would be so easily tricked.
Of course, he actually believed what Sakazuki said, but it could have been the other way around and considering how Whitebeard and his crew/allies call each other family, I would have bet Squardo won't betray his "pops".
An Admiral going for such cheap tricks wasn't really fun to watch.One refutation could go to all of that. The coverup of the Impel Down breakout. They basically said they cared more about their image rather than protect the public's safety by not issuing out warnings that the world's worst criminals are free.
How about the pregnant women and babies that were killed in their quest to snuff out a possible child of Roger. That is pretty evil in my book if you ask me.
Or what about the fact that the government kept secret about the negative effects of the White Amber so they could get rich off of Flevance and then left the citizens for dead when all of them suffered from the lead poisoning and lied to the public saying it was contagious.
Not to mention the untouchable status of the Celestial Dragons which allows them to get away with literally murder, slavery, and a host of other nasty stuff.
All I can say to its core the government is irredeemably corrupt and only cares for its own power.
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@Bittersweet:
Law is cool and all, but I remember reading One Piece and not Law Piece, back when Luffy was the main character and he had a crew.
I'm of the opinion (And I took a while to form that opinion) that Dressrosa would greatly benefit from Straw Hats not being there.
Dressrosa is basicaly a story of side plots and side characters, some more minor, some more major. Straw Hats are more or less a tool in it to keep the arc moving forwards.They have little to no personal investment in the arc that audience can relate to, Luffy's habbit of being willing to kill for a person that gave him food nonwithstanding.
The entire emotional core of the arc does not resolve around them, which works in some cases for the better (Law) or for the worse (Rikus).
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Law's entire family died in a very unDlightful way. As for me the smiling D theory died with them.
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One refutation could go to all of that. The coverup of the Impel Down breakout. They basically said they cared more about their image rather than protect the public's safety by not issuing out warnings that the world's worst criminals are free.
When you are in the middle of the crowd of the thousands of people, and you see somebody take out a gun in public, do you yell into megaphons "Somebody has a gun, fucking run!"?
The panic that results from warnings like that often results in bigger casualties then the danger we were warning people about in a first place. There is some rational behind taking care of it quietly.
How about the pregnant women and babies that were killed in their quest to snuff out a possible child of Roger. That is pretty evil in my book if you ask me.
Evil, yes, but not unjustifiable. Not when inheritence of will is a real thing, of which everybody that has important position in the world knows. Ace survived, and ended up causing a lot more damage.
Or what about the fact that the government kept secret about the negative effects of the White Amber so they could get rich off of Flevance and then left the citizens for dead when all of them suffered from the lead poisoning and lied to the public saying it was contagious.
Pretty evil as well, but in all honesty, not unheard off. Goverments need money. That is because all of the services they provide cost a lot. Perhaps starting with funding world wide military and police force?
Not to mention the untouchable status of the Celestial Dragons which allows them to get away with literally murder, slavery, and a host of other nasty stuff.
We don't know why they posses such status though. Is it only because of birth? My personal pet theory is that Gorosei despise them as well, but need somebody to actually fund the entire circus they are running.
All I can say to its core the government is irredeemably corrupt and only cares for its own power.
I would disagree. I think they are more ambigious then that. And in all honesty, I haven't seen anything implying the alternatives are any better.
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@Bittersweet:
Law's really funny - in the same way Zoro is - and he is cool, but I think he's taken too much of the spotlight from the Strawhats. I don't mind all of the arc-specific characters, like Kyros or Leo or whoever, getting lots of time, but in Punk Hazard, he came up with a plan, he moved the plot (everything Luffy and Smoker did was, more or less, as Law directed), he beat an opponent that Zoro lost to (Yeti Cool Bros, cheap as they were) AND an opponent that Sanji and Smoker lost to (What, full body Haki? My Haki is over 9000, tardo, eat this), AND out-doctored Chopper. On top of that he's been the central character in Dressrosa. Yeah, I liked his flashback. I do like the guy.
But he makes me feel like I'm reading Law Piece. Not One Piece. I know it'll work itself out properly, whatever form that may take. I just want him to quit crapping all over the rest of the cast. If he dies and is then revived…in what way am I supposed to accept that!? If Luffy can't beat Doffy without his help, in what way am I supposed to accept that!? Law Piece or One Piece?
I pick One Piece, thanks.
Gah, I'm being more negative than I intend to be, and I apologize for that. I'm just upset about Law's takeover of the series. Maybe I'm overreacting, and I'm sure that when I look back on this arc later, I'll wonder what the heck was wrong with me.
But right now, he gets on my nerves. And I'm going to express that.
It's fine if you think of it that way, and that argument is quite sound. Law did take quite a bit of precedence for a while, so I can see some people not liking it. Here's a guy that was only briefly mentioned at one point, outshining people's favorite crew members. I liked the idea that Law was taking charge, showing that it's not always going to be Luffy leading the charge. Even then, with this arc it was thrown out the window and Luffy ultimately took the charge.
I will admit him out doctoring chopper is a bit of a problem, but if it leads to Chopper out doing him without the power at some point, I'd say that's all the more impressive. At this time, it comes down to personal opinion (well, most of it does to an extent).
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Evil, yes, but not unjustifiable. Not when inheritence of will is a real thing, of which everybody that has important position in the world knows. Ace survived, and ended up causing a lot more damage.
It's worth noting that we didn't see that much damage done personally by Ace. Most of it came at the hands of those fighting to use him as a symbol for his Roger's legacy, either to extinguish it or raise it up. In fact, Ace was the person least interested in carrying on his father's will despite being very similar to him.
The search to murder him as an infant might have been to eliminate the inheritance of will, but effectively it was to stop others from using him as a symbol for their cause. It turns out it wasn't what he would do, but what others would use him for. That's both a worse reason morally and a more realistic reason historically for trying to kill an infant.
If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life
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It's worth noting that we didn't see that much damage done personally by Ace. Most of it came at the hands of those fighting to use him as a symbol for his Roger's legacy, either to extinguish it or raise it up. In fact, Ace was the person least interested in carrying on his father's will despite being very similar to him.
The search to murder him as an infant might have been to eliminate the inheritance of will, but effectively it was to stop others from using him as a symbol for their cause. It turns out it wasn't what he would do, but what others would use him for. That's both a worse reason morally and a more realistic reason historically for trying to kill an infant.
I actually think it was combination of both.
It's not like Ace gave them reasons to think otherwise. And we did see him casually ending several ships of Crocodile's minions, as well as an Island. I sincerely doubt he got his bounty for good behaviour, otherwise Garp would probably far less willing to stand by.
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I'm of the opinion (And I took a while to form that opinion) that Dressrosa would greatly benefit from Straw Hats not being there.
Dressrosa is basicaly a story of side plots and side characters, some more minor, some more major. Straw Hats are more or less a tool in it to keep the arc moving forwards.They have little to no personal investment in the arc that audience can relate to, Luffy's habbit of being willing to kill for a person that gave him food nonwithstanding.
The entire emotional core of the arc does not resolve around them, which works in some cases for the better (Law) or for the worse (Rikus).
The way you just described things is Sky Island Arc in a nutshell. It had little to nothing to contribute to the main overall story either…it was mostly side characters and thier stories and the Strawhats were just randomly there and Luffy saved the day.
Hell aside from Luffy being the one who won in the end, that arc felt like Oda wrote a completely different Manga and just randomly added it to One Piece because he didn't have time to release a "Sky island" manga. He added dials and the ponyglyphs to make it loosely tie in and called it a day.
It's funny how often Dressrosa got compared to Alabasta and yet you've unwittingly helped me find another tie to Sky Island for it. (I didn't like Sky island. Was dragged out and long...much like Dressrosa actually.)
For future reference-
I loved East Blue Saga. Alabasta was alright. Sky Island Saga was nearly unbrearably long but I liked it at parts.
I loved Water 7 Saga. Thriller Bark dragged a bit and I'm mixed about it. Seabody would've been nothing big if it wasn't for the Supernovas awesome introduction and the ending to it. Loved Amazon Lily. Loved Impel Down. Whitebeard War was meh..many flaws. Fishman Island Saga is the worst saga in all of One Piece. Punk Hazard was meh.Aaand I'm losing my Train of thought and my wife is telling me to go to bed. So this ends my post for now.
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And in all honesty, I haven't seen anything implying the alternatives are any better.
The revolutinaries? They see injustice in the worlds countries the WG and marines doesn't care for and try to end it. So they are evenly good if not better.
And pirates and WB? They are PIRATES, only responsible for themselves unlike the marines and the WG who have responsibilities. Thats why they are called pirates.
“As I stand out here in the wonders of the unknown at Hadley, I sort of realize there’s a fundamental truth to our nature: Man must explore!” – David Scott, Moon
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The revolutinaries? They see injustice in the worlds countries the WG and marines doesn't care for and try to end it. So they are evenly good if not better.
Being a good vigilantee does not mean they would be great at managing hundreds of nations. It's like saying that Punisher would make for a great president. And saying it unironicaly.
And pirates and WB? They are PIRATES, only responsible for themselves unlike the marines and the WG who have responsibilities. Thats why they are called pirates.
True. But that doesn't make them a better alternative, now, does it?
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Being a good vigilantee does not mean they would be great at managing hundreds of nations. It's like saying that Punisher would make for a great president. And saying it unironicaly.
True. But that doesn't make them a better alternative, now, does it?
Can't multiquote: First part: You don't know if they are good or even better as the current WG either. The Punisher is already in charge. He's called Sakazuki
Second part: I never said that pirates are a better alternative. They aren't, and mostly don't want that responsebility, I think.
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The way you just described things is Sky Island Arc in a nutshell. It had little to nothing to contribute to the main overall story either…it was mostly side characters and thier stories and the Strawhats were just randomly there and Luffy saved the day.
Hell aside from Luffy being the one who won in the end, that arc felt like Oda wrote a completely different Manga and just randomly added it to One Piece because he didn't have time to release a "Sky island" manga. He added dials and the ponyglyphs to make it loosely tie in and called it a day.
It's funny how often Dressrosa got compared to Alabasta and yet you've unwittingly helped me find another tie to Sky Island for it. (I didn't like Sky island. Was dragged out and long...much like Dressrosa actually.)
For future reference-
I loved East Blue Saga. Alabasta was alright. Sky Island Saga was nearly unbrearably long but I liked it at parts.
I loved Water 7 Saga. Thriller Bark dragged a bit and I'm mixed about it. Seabody would've been nothing big if it wasn't for the Supernovas awesome introduction and the ending to it. Loved Amazon Lily. Loved Impel Down. Whitebeard War was meh..many flaws. Fishman Island Saga is the worst saga in all of One Piece. Punk Hazard was meh.Aaand I'm losing my Train of thought and my wife is telling me to go to bed. So this ends my post for now.
I've heard people think that Oda throws in all this stuff, even if it's not straw hat related, because they think that Oda won't be able to write another Manga after this one (health reasons and probably once it's done and over, he will be well enough off that he could retire).
I did like Skypeae actually, though not my favorite arc. I can see where people don't like certain aspects of it, but I like the idea that not everything that is done revolves around the Straw Hats. Yes, they do end up saving the day, but these things were happening before they were around, and they fight despite having little or no involvement. Really, if we want to say what arcs the crew had actual stake in, it would be Enes Lobby (since one of their crew members were takes), and FI (Luffy owed Jimbei), and Impel Down and War (though that was just Luffy). Alabasta had them helping Vivi before they really became friends, Skypea (Just came in to conflict), Thriller Bark (I guess they had a stake with needing to get shadows), Punk Hazard (Nami wanted to help the kids), and Dressrosa (More because of Law). So its back and forth on how much they really come in at.
As for the whole argument about the moral debate stuff, all factions seem to be a mix. You have certain crews that are outright evil, some ambiguous, and some good. Akainu is a bit of a hard one. When I first read through the series, I hated him because it was the whole absolute justice thing. However, when I think about it and having seen the world, black and white doesn't cut it. Yes, he did a terrible thing, but he did it because he thought it was right. Absolute is on the extreme of a side, where you only adhere to that rule. In certain cases, such as religious extremists and other stuff, nothing good comes from it. In this case, it's a bit harder, especially with limited information.
Akainu is a Fleet Admiral, but what we've seen from this arc, it seems even he is kept from certain secrets. What about when he was a vice-admiral in the flash back? Safe to assume he knew a lot less, and was at most told a buster call happened when something needed to be contained. In his mind, it didn't matter what it was, but the system said that nothing could escape. Morals are not a question in his case, so no survivors could be allowed, less whatever was there is spread out and causes more problems.
Is it the best action? No. But with all the stuff that happens in a Buster Call, there was no time to stop what was going on, especially in his lower rank. So for him, it was kill everyone to make sure the fire died there. By the time they could question the people and make sure, someone could get away and start spreading whatever the problem was. I doubt at his position he was told what was going on. From Kuzans reaction, seemed he didn't know what it was about either.
So Akainu's thinking is a dangerous one, by thinking Justice in absolute, and what he did was not good. However, in some ways, there is justification, as little as there is.
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You know, if Sakazuki was as evil as people make him out to be, Fujitora would never have made it into his marines. And most certainly not into position of power such as Admiral.
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One refutation could go to all of that. The coverup of the Impel Down breakout. They basically said they cared more about their image rather than protect the public's safety by not issuing out warnings that the world's worst criminals are free.
How about the pregnant women and babies that were killed in their quest to snuff out a possible child of Roger. That is pretty evil in my book if you ask me.
Or what about the fact that the government kept secret about the negative effects of the White Amber so they could get rich off of Flevance and then left the citizens for dead when all of them suffered from the lead poisoning and lied to the public saying it was contagious.
Not to mention the untouchable status of the Celestial Dragons which allows them to get away with literally murder, slavery, and a host of other nasty stuff.
All I can say to its core the government is irredeemably corrupt and only cares for its own power.
As I said before, I am not justifying the World Government. But rather Sakazuki's actions on Ohara.
World Government has definitely done some nonsense and totally evil deeds. And why they support the Celestial Dragons is still a mystery to me.Calling it now. Dragon's powers from Loguetown and Gray Terminal were not the result of some Devil Fruit. It was CoC.
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You know, if Sakazuki was as evil as people make him out to be, Fujitora would never have made it into his marines. And most certainly not into position of power such as Admiral.
Or is he evil enough to allow Fujitora to come in so by doing nothing, more people die:ninja:
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As I said before, I am not justifying the World Government. But rather Sakazuki's actions on Ohara.
World Government has definitely done some nonsense and totally evil deeds. And why they support the Celestial Dragons is still a mystery to me.My bet is money.
Come on, SOMEBODY has to give them millions to build more pacifistas and pay hundreds of thousands of soldiers they have. Not to mention upkeep of massive war fleet.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@The:
Or is he evil enough to allow Fujitora to come in so by doing nothing, more people die:ninja:
That fiend!
Still like him though. My favorite antagonist hands down. Get's the job done. Unlike some others I could have mentioned Cough Doffy Cough.
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My bet is money.
Come on, SOMEBODY has to give them millions to build more pacifistas and pay hundreds of thousands of soldiers they have. Not to mention upkeep of massive war fleet.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
That fiend!
Still like him though. My favorite antagonist hands down. Get's the job done. Unlike some others I could have mentioned Cough Doffy Cough.
Yeah, Akainu is my favorite antagonist, and Admiral. Not just because he gets things done and really wrecked some well known characters, but the visual stuff we saw of his power. Magma fists for the win.
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Ididn't like Sky island. Was dragged out and long…much like Dressrosa actually)
hey, if Skypiea was dragged out you gotta create a whole new word for Dressrosa. And the way you keep using "Sky island" instead of "Skypiea" make me think that you've never read it, like many of its detractors, sadly.
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That fiend!
Still like him though. My favorite antagonist hands down. Get's the job done. Unlike some others I could have mentioned Cough Doffy Cough.
He is also a massive idiot with how radical most of his acts are. He long lost humanity he had in himself.
As he is now, without any good flashback of his past yet he as as good as Quilge Opie from Bleach(okay and nothing special).
Kuzan was so much against Akainu taking lead of marines because he forseen big part of New Marines turning into "Dark Justice" followers, so to put simply - militaristic fascists.
Thats also why World Goverment wanted Akainu to be in lead as he was closer to their way of thinking. In end it was just like Doflamingo said - whoever wins is justice - so with Kuzan falling after 10 days of fighting Akainu ended up being new boss of marines. -
He is also a massive idiot with how radical most of his acts are. He long lost humanity he had in himself.
Actually the way he acts is very human.
You just don't want to acknowledge it.
And for that matter, he is an extremist, yes, but I doubt his acts are idiotic. They are moraly wrong, yes, but idiotic? Why would they be?
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When you are in the middle of the crowd of the thousands of people, and you see somebody take out a gun in public, do you yell into megaphons "Somebody has a gun, fucking run!"?
The panic that results from warnings like that often results in bigger casualties then the danger we were warning people about in a first place. There is some rational behind taking care of it quietly.
Agreed. Hiding the Impel Down breakout was quite justified.
Evil, yes, but not unjustifiable. Not when inheritence of will is a real thing, of which everybody that has important position in the world knows. Ace survived, and ended up causing a lot more damage.
This I don't agree with. Killing hundreds of newborns on the off-chance that someone will grow up to be an enemy and only because his father was an enemy?
Maybe if the Will of D is explained, I would be able to make a more informed decision, but till then, it's all pretty irrational and unjustified to me.Pretty evil as well, but in all honesty, not unheard off. Goverments need money. That is because all of the services they provide cost a lot. Perhaps starting with funding world wide military and police force?
Just because something has happened doesn't mean it's justifiable. Favoring sponsors is all well and nice, but allowing them to butcher the world's human rights? And killing anyone who tries to oppose such behavior? Not too sure about that.
World government's support of CDs is one of the major reasons I am intrigued about this arc.
I don't think it's money. If CDs have some source for money, the Gorosei can just order the massacre of the CDs and claim the source for themselves. Which is not really something the can't do. But for some reason or other, they are not.
mingo pointed out some secret treasure something of the CDs. Although I think the World Government should have been able to investigate and find it out, it is quite possible that the secret holds the key to World Government spoiling the CDs to hilariously evil standards.As of now I consider the World Government to be quite reasonable except when the matters involve Will of D, Celestial Dragons or Void Century.
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Actually the way he acts is very human.
You just don't want to acknowledge it.
And for that matter, he is an extremist, yes, but I doubt his acts are idiotic. They are moraly wrong, yes, but idiotic? Why would they be?
Because its idiotic to assume that idea can be killed. Also by harsher restrictions enemies that are created are stronger. Look at where World Goverment policy has brought Kuzan - in final war he surely will not aid marines in any way, he is now closer to revolutionary or pirate with freedome and new perspective he has on things. Things should be balanced, Akainu is kind of symbol of absolutely extreme choices. Effective to some degree but in long run its not only about being effective in killing "enemies".
He believes he can deal with pirates as it seems most likely by militarization of marines(new pacifistas and something that marines are getting ready that was hinted by Law, I expect them building up ancient weapon-like of thing with how fast Vegapunk makes progress). Pirates in One Piece are symbol of few things- freedom of choice, selfishness and purity. Look at how marines that are "closer" to pirates or that are closer to being "outside of system" are being shown in better light, one way or another. Oda seems to be going in one direction with how he is building up crack in marines themselves- Smoker and Kuzan being first big examples.
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Kuzan was so much against Akainu taking lead of marines because he forseen big part of New Marines turning into "Dark Justice" followers, so to put simply - militaristic fascists.
Never quite understood why people take the word of a lazy-ass dreamer as the word of justice.
Thats also why World Goverment wanted Akainu to be in lead as he was closer to their way of thinking. In end it was just like Doflamingo said - whoever wins is justice - so with Kuzan
falling after 10 days of fighting Akainu ended up being new boss of marines.iirc, a lot of high ranking marines recommended Akainu to be the new Fleet Admiral just like Sengoku recommended Aokiji.
The world government didn't chose Akainu because of any close thinking, but because a lot of marines recommended him for the position.
and in the end, of course, whoever wins becomes justice. -
Because its idiotic to assume that idea can be killed. Also by harsher restrictions enemies that are created are stronger. Look at where World Goverment policy has brought Kuzan - in final war he surely will not aid marines in any way, he is now closer to revolutionary or pirate with freedome and new perspective he has on things. Things should be balanced, Akainu is kind of symbol of absolutely extreme choices. Effective to some degree but in long run its not only about being effective in killing "enemies".
Kuzan cost them Enies Lobby because he wanted to test whatever Robin had true friends or not. And he gave Spandam ability to call on Buster Call, which should be a cause to question his sanity, much less inteligence.
And yes, idea perhaps can't be killed, but knowledge? Sure can.
He believes he can deal with pirates as it seems most likely by militarization of marines(new pacifistas and something that marines are getting ready that was hinted by Law, I expect them building up ancient weapon-like of thing with how fast Vegapunk makes progress). Pirates in One Piece are symbol of few things- freedom of choice, selfishness and purity. Look at how marines that are "closer" to pirates or that are closer to being "outside of system" are being shown in better light, one way or another. Oda seems to be going in one direction with how he is building up crack in marines themselves- Smoker and Kuzan being first big examples.
Pirates in One Piece are anything but pure and selfishness was not a virtue, last time I checked. As for violence and excessive militarisation not being a proper way to deal with pirate problem, I'm going to laugh at you. Seriously, what do you expect them to do?
And while yes, marines that are closer to pirates are perhaps shown to be slightly better moraly, but in better light? If anything, most of them are incompetent oafs that rely on said pirates to do their job for them.
If I were to choose whom I trust more to protect me from pirates, I'm picking Sakazuki over Smoker any day of the week.
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Actually the way he acts is very human.
You just don't want to acknowledge it.
And for that matter, he is an extremist, yes, but I doubt his acts are idiotic. They are moraly wrong, yes, but idiotic? Why would they be?
Because its idiotic to assume that idea of freedom can be killed. Also by harsher restrictions enemies that are created are stronger. Look at where World Goverment policy has brought Kuzan - in final war he surely will not aid marines in any way, he is now closer to revolutionary or pirate with freedome and new perspective he has on things. Things should be balanced, Akainu is kind of symbol of absolutely extreme choices. Effective to some degree but in long run its not only about being effective in killing "enemies".
He believes he can deal with pirates as it seems most likely by militarization of marines(new pacifistas and something that marines are getting ready that was hinted by Law, I expect them building up ancient weapon-like of thing with how fast Vegapunk makes progress). Pirates in One Piece are symbol of few things- freedom of choice, selfishness and purity. Look at how marines that are "closer" to pirates or that are closer to being "outside of system" are being shown in better light, one way or another. Oda seems to be going in one direction with how he is building up crack in marines themselves- Smoker and Kuzan being first big examples.
If Oda managed to make somebody like Doflamingo "understandable" but not sympathetic with flashbacks we gotten for him now then he will surely do something like that for Akainu as wall. Being radical never in history ended up as effective means to end problem once and for all. I do believe that its better that Akainu won as with Kuzan in lead nothing would have changed for marines and balance would be kept(my opinion) and now with Akainu in lead of marines and what Luffy will soon do(beating Doflamingo) gears will start to move for marines as well. Akainu is made the way he is because Oda wants to use him as example of radical acting leading to no solution, just circling more fuel for both sides for everything to go on almost same way it was. Radical acts also build up a lot more "tension". Akainu acts like wrong/bad people are everyone that doesnt share his approach to dealing with pirates. Coby being first hand example, even with his whole being young and naive he had a point with deaths of marines being pointless after they managed to kill Ace and Whitebeard along with number of other pirates. Its not medival when stuff like finishing off every enemy flies, humans perhaps are not far above it now but some slight "change" at least in work of fiction with more modern world should be expected. At least thats how I see it.
You know, by applying force you can destroy something but not change it- either if it is persons life or workings of some system. I call idiotic how Akainu acted during war because as effective as he is, he is not making any change beside enlarging slaughter. He killed Ace and helped to kill Whitebeard - cool and all but world didnt changed, same old stuff with a lot more tension building up. He thinks he can take on pirates so he moved Marineford into New World - truth is he is waiting like opportunist till some big conflict between Yonko will happen. He should be really happy with Kidds alliance and Luffys actions as those will give him chance to bring down even more big named pirates with force he has at his disposal now.
Who knows if he and Fujitora arent drinking pals that have same idea of abolishing Warlord system and that Fuji was sent to Dressrosa with additional directives of collecting evidence against Doflamingo?
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So how would you actually change things?
Because in all honesty, I could see Akainu's plan leading to some great results. It won't, because it's a Shonen Manga and he is antagonist, but it could. The basis are solid.
Death of the marines are all on Sengoku, btw. Military Genius, but somehow the concept of field medics eluded him. Imbecile.
See, that's why I can't take the villainsation of the marines in some cases seriously.
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So how would you actually change things?
Because in all honesty, I could see Akainu's plan leading to some great results. It won't, because it's a Shonen Manga and he is antagonist, but it could. The basis are solid.
Death of the marines are all on Sengoku, btw. Military Genius, but somehow the concept of field medics eluded him. Imbecile.
See, that's why I can't take the villainsation of the marines in some cases seriously.
Whitebeard alliance had a number of medics. I expect at least same on marines side and I dont get why you assume there was no medics for them or that you push fault at Fleet Admiral.
Would not bring those deaths on Sengoku - if fighting would have stopped then there would be fairly less amount of deaths. Cobbys comment leads to that.
It was Akainu who heated up after marines "scored" some points - Whitebeard and Aces death.
Akainus plan could only lead for more of World Goverment domination over seas, this would lead to never ending rising level of control that WG would have over people. Doesnt it remind you a bit of US as it is now? Some bits and pieces of it.As for how I would change things ? Well I would tell Akainu that 5 stars were pirates for example
You know how it would most probably go 
Head would have to be changed for changes to come also in marines as WG is affecting how Marines work from what we have seen. It would be more interesting if Akainu would be person that after getting to know more about WG void century itself would set them as main enemies. He might be humane in some things he does as meaning for greater good, never compromising believing that non compromised actions would lead to lasting change.Check out works of Alan Moore, starting with Watchmen if you want more of food for thoughts when it comes to how effective choices can differ. One Piece being adventure manga with different goal and msgs to achieve might irritate you by not satysfying your hunger of expectations in some departments. Judging by how you approach discussion if you didnt checked Alan Moore works you should.
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Whitebeard alliance had a number of medics. I expect at least same on marines side and I dont get why you assume there was no medics for them or that you push fault at Fleet Admiral.
Whitebeard Alliance had one Doctor, who clearly shows up any time there are wounded.
Marines have number of doctors, but none shown field medics, which is why we see wounded being abandoned and not helped during the war.
Would not bring those deaths on Sengoku - if fighting would have stopped then there would be fairly less amount of deaths. Cobbys comment leads to that.
He was commanding officer, you know?
And yes, fighting leads to deaths, but every single person those pirates will kill after returning to New World, including most certainly a fair number of marines, well, that's all on Coby.
It was Akainu who heated up after marines "scored" some points - Whitebeard and Aces death.
Military tactics 101.
The war marines are fighting is basicaly a guerilla war. Their enemy has territory, but no established main base that could be taken over, since they operate from ships. Because they rely on strength of small number of individual fighters and hit-and-run tactics, there are no logistic lines that can be targeted and destroyed.
They also have only have specified goal that can be denied to them: One Piece. Others just want to be free on the sea, whatever to have freedom for freedom's sake, or to pillage and gain power and wealth.
Akainu's plan is actually most rational and effective way of winning the war. And I assume his plan with moving to New World is to: A) Destroy and Kill all major pirate groups B) Destroy One Piece, ending their motivation.
Rather straighforward, but sometimes those kinds of plans work the best.
Akainus plan could only lead for more of World Goverment domination over seas, this would lead to never ending rising level of control that WG would have over people. Doesnt it remind you a bit of US as it is now? Some bits and pieces of it.
… But isn't that the point and him doing his job right? You argued his plan was being idiotic, but now you are saying it will lead to succes that WG wants. So which one is it?
And yes, I've been of opinion that WG is an expy of US for quite some time. From different time periods, of course.
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When you are in the middle of the crowd of the thousands of people, and you see somebody take out a gun in public, do you yell into megaphons "Somebody has a gun, fucking run!"?
The panic that results from warnings like that often results in bigger casualties then the danger we were warning people about in a first place. There is some rational behind taking care of it quietly.
This is very clearly not what the government cared about there. It was their public image and the "power" of their prisons that was in question. This is able to be seen from Sengoku's perspective quite clearly (someone who actually cares about protecting citizens).
Evil, yes, but not unjustifiable. Not when inheritence of will is a real thing, of which everybody that has important position in the world knows. Ace survived, and ended up causing a lot more damage.
Pretty evil as well, but in all honesty, not unheard off. Goverments need money. That is because all of the services they provide cost a lot. Perhaps starting with funding world wide military and police force?
I really don't care how you try to create scenarios to justiify either of these, because it doesn't make them any better at all.
The government's reasons show how awful they truly are. Money and power are all they care about, and getting rid of the Pirate King's son ensures that even less people are motivated to go against them, and covering up a disease that killed thousands shows how far they're willing to go to cut a profit.
I would disagree. I think they are more ambigious then that. And in all honesty, I haven't seen anything implying the alternatives are any better.
Yeah, except the alternative we've been given (the revolutionaries and good marines) actually seem to care about people and freedoms.
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… But isn't that the point and him doing his job right? You argued his plan was being idiotic, but now you are saying it will lead to succes that WG wants. So which one is it?
And yes, I've been of opinion that WG is an expy of US for quite some time. From different time periods, of course.
I didnt argued over Akainus plan being idiotic. I called him an idiot as he can be seen as such with way he acts. By idiot I mean that person does something with some goal in mind not seeing that it gives pretty much nothing in a long run.
As for Coby thing and deaths being on him - Akainu killing off his own man for trying to run away from fight when they are most likely to die isnt any better so you know..One Piece can be some sort of idea, or information. Like whole history on paper being up to personal judgement and decision of crew on if they will make a change in world or not - Rayleigh already hinted at Strawhats possibly getting different conclusion when they get to finish their journey than they(Roger pirates) gotten. Roger was waiting for some man that could possibly lead to a change- maybe its generation after generation kind of wait with each individual adding to chances for change to actually happen, Luffy being one that will make a change with how much of sovereign individual he is.
We can go with that exchange for a long time but to be honest I used up a lot of my free time today
So now Im gonna enjoy other things. -
The way you just described things is Sky Island Arc in a nutshell. It had little to nothing to contribute to the main overall story either…it was mostly side characters and thier stories and the Strawhats were just randomly there and Luffy saved the day.
Except it did? You can't just ignore the ponyglyph at the end of the arc, further development of Roger, and the story of Montblanc Noland, which somewhat applies to Dressrosa too. Oh and let's not forget the world building that comes from knowing of the existence of sky islands and their apparent connection to the Ancient Kingdom.
Hell aside from Luffy being the one who won in the end, that arc felt like Oda wrote a completely different Manga and just randomly added it to One Piece because he didn't have time to release a "Sky island" manga. He added dials and the ponyglyphs to make it loosely tie in and called it a day.
Oh okay, so you're ignoring that One Piece is about the adventure and side characters too.
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@Galaxy:
This is very clearly not what the government cared about there. It was their public image and the "power" of their prisons that was in question. This is able to be seen from Sengoku's perspective quite clearly (someone who actually cares about protecting citizens).
You got all that from that quick comment from Brandnew?
And yes, public trust in the goverment is also quite important. Which is why first world goverment rarely disclose the details of their military and inteligence. Or at the very least try to down play them as much as possible.
@Galaxy:
I really don't care how you try to create scenarios to justiify either of these, because it doesn't make them any better at all.
The government's reasons show how awful they truly are. Money and power are all they care about, and getting rid of the Pirate King's son ensures that even less people are motivated to go against them, and covering up a disease that killed thousands shows how far they're willing to go to cut a profit.
I'm not trying to make them any better, but rather explain rational behind them.
@Galaxy:
Yeah, except the alternative we've been given (the revolutionaries and good marines) actually seem to care about people and freedoms.
Good marines are bad at their job.
And Revolutionaries do not seem like that viable alternative either.
Neither probably knows how to actually run things. Which is a theme for the revolutions everywhere. That and hipocrisy.
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@Galaxy:
Oh okay, so you're ignoring that One Piece is about the adventure and side characters too.
That is what One Piece lately lacks. I would gladly welcome new arc with atmosphere of adventure Skypiea had.
Now we have big scale conflicts one after another, getting bigger and bigger. Strawhats are few days on New World and we didnt seen any nice island at all- just running around Punk Hazard and Dressrosa till now.
Maybe Zou will be a nice change of pace same as Wano being more on adventure side. I would love to see volumes dedicated to some exploration of islands on Kaido territory when he will fall. -
I didnt argued over Akainus plan being idiotic. I called him an idiot as he can be seen as such with way he acts. By idiot I mean that person does something with some goal in mind not seeing that it gives pretty much nothing in a long run.
It gives him something: Winning. Over a group that is in majority compromised of megalomaniacs and murderers.
And you know, just because crimes exists it doesn't mean we should stop fighting it.
As for Coby thing and deaths being on him - Akainu killing off his own man for trying to run away from fight when they are most likely to die isnt any better so you know..
One is mutiny, and at least partialy motivated by Coby sympathising with the enemy, the other is a summary execution of a deserter. Desertion being a crime punishable by death in our wonderful moral world, and not just in authoritarian regimes either.
One Piece can be some sort of idea, or information. Like whole history on paper being up to personal judgement and decision of crew on if they will make a change in world or not - Rayleigh already hinted at Strawhats possibly getting different conclusion when they get to finish their journey than they(Roger pirates) gotten. Roger was waiting for some man that could possibly lead to a change- maybe its generation after generation kind of wait with each individual adding to chances for change to actually happen, Luffy being one that will make a change with how much of sovereign individual he is.
I think it doesn't matter to your average pirate. Pretty sure that if Akainu burns Raftel to the ground, and tell them that One Piece is gone forever, they would believe him.
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True, the intended reaction by Oda is moral outrage. We are supposed to take the side of Aokiji, Robin and Saul, and be horrified that anybody would go as far as to kill not only citizens of which safety was guaranteed, but also their own men in the name of "Justice".
That I don't is a mix of my personal beliefs and me playing devil's advocate.
Oh, that's just it!! Yes!!! I'll just add that you need to clarify when you are analyzing flaws of a character or a plot WITHOUT playing the role of Akainu's advocate. Then I'll be trully happy!
A) There is little to no knowledge about how WG was actually established.
B) We have implications that the ancient truth was tied to One Piece, rediscovery of which is supposed to lead to global war.
C) If what you are saying is true, and the truth Ohara discovered truly would do no harm to the world, only change bad things about current goverment, and indeed enforce the freedom pirates love… Why none of the Roger Pirates, all of whom know the true history, decided to come forth with it?
A)- Actually, it's quite clear it was after a global war. Some Ancients are obliterated (pre-Shandians) with huge effort to leave behind stones with 'the truth', there's these things called Ancient Weapons, some kings unite and rise on power in a morally grey-blackish way that justifies Nefertari's decision… And I don't thing it was after having a globally huge and dangerous party like Project X. _B)- It leads only to willingly accuse with solid proofs the current government of tyranny. If there is war, current government is at the very least half of responsible for the upcoming war (responding with arms to a legitimate accusation) PLUS the moral wrongness of its fundational actions.
C)- Well, the thing is it MIGHT cause a huge ruccus. Don't matter how much of a heavy truth it is, people would still have the choice of not moving a finger to change the government. People don't follow Luffy because they are sheeps, but because they want to. Also, the higher responsibility would not fall to the messenger, but to the message –or, so to speak, not to the ones revealing it but to the ones who DID that what the truth is revealing.
Also, it could very well be that Roger stoped only because he was ill, and the rest of his crew are waiting for the "next Roger", because they feel like only him could do it.You can indeed argue that it would be better to preserve current situation, by killing Oharians and innocent people (even if there is no proof that it will be enough to keep it beeing a 'peaceful' state, because there's nothing sure about how will the government act next when in a tyranny), than the possibility of war (which could kill far more people). But, then again, you can argue otherwise, specially when adding key factors like freedom, truth, proven tyranny, and legitimation of citizens willingly supporting the substitution of its Carta Magna --and that is exactly the choice the manga is rooting for. Say, if, in a theoretical manga, since chapter one killing someone for survival and not enjoying it is portrayed as BAD, if later on, the theme goes on but is magnified (it affects a lots of people, not only one vs one), then you can say you do not share that opinion and that you would act different in real life, but you cannot root from an in-side POV for the enemy of said manga that "enjoys killing for survival cause its only natural thing to do, people kill to survive". You can do it because of your real-life morality, but not following the patterns of morality stablished by the manga. Therefore, it is not a flaw of the manga itself (no inconsistency, so to speak), but a incapability of the subject to suspend its disbelief._
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It gives him something: Winning. Over a group that is in majority compromised of megalomaniacs and murderers.
And you know, just because crimes exists it doesn't mean we should stop fighting it.
One is mutiny, and at least partialy motivated by Coby sympathising with the enemy, the other is a summary execution of a deserter. Desertion being a crime punishable by death in our wonderful moral world, and not just in authoritarian regimes either.
I think it doesn't matter to your average pirate. Pretty sure that if Akainu burns Raftel to the ground, and tell them that One Piece is gone forever, they would believe him.
1. Coby was sorry for dying marines and their families.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-49210-10/one-piece/chapter-579.html not for pirates2. One Piece main strength is that nobody knows what it is so it works at bigesst mass possible, nobody would believe into One Piece being destroyed without reveal of what it was etc.
3. Megalomaniacs and murderes might be majority of pirates(dont tell me that marines now didnt changed to this way as well thanks to extremism of Akainu) but with Strawhats being specific example of also achieving lot of good things(even though as lately hinted plenty people can die because of their actions like when Zoro cut Pica to pieces). In One Piece pirates are symbol of freedom more than anything else. I would not imply real world rules to it to further lenghts.
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@Galaxy:
Except it did? You can't just ignore the ponyglyph at the end of the arc, further development of Roger, and the story of Montblanc Noland, which somewhat applies to Dressrosa too. Oh and let's not forget the world building that comes from knowing of the existence of sky islands and their apparent connection to the Ancient Kingdom.
It's nice to get worldbuilding and trivia, but I don't especially think it was worth it an entire arc.
Honestly, Skypiea feels like an experiment; something Oda originaly had no plans to include in, but decided to do it when it turned out he was able to go beyond his original four years plan.
@Galaxy:
Oh okay, so you're ignoring that One Piece is about the adventure and side characters too.
Tying that to the main story and main characters properly is a problem here, not One Piece focusing on adventure and side characters. And let's be honest here, adventure part does not appear that much in the main story aside from Skypiea.
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You got all that from that quick comment from Brandnew?
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Uhh yeah, it's pretty obvious their intention is for their people to keep trusting them instead of looking to alternative means (revolutionaries).
And yes, public trust in the goverment is also quite important. Which is why first world goverment rarely disclose the details of their military and inteligence. Or at the very least try to down play them as much as possible.
Sure, public trust is awesome.
But when it's to keep people in line and keep them from questioning their government? That's when it's an issue.
I'm not trying to make them any better, but rather explain rational behind them.
This doesn't make the rational any better.
Good marines are bad at their job.
How so? Citing Kuzan at Enies Lobby is silly since the protagonists were going to have their way there, regardless.
And if we're going to go here, it's easy to say that Sakazuki is awful at his job of protecting civilians, since he killed hundreds of them.
And Revolutionaries do not seem like that viable alternative either.
Again, they care about people and their freedoms. You just need to bring competent and morally right Marines/Government officials such as Kong, Sengoku, Garp, Smoker, and Kuzan into the mix and it's filled with people that fit your "experience" criteria.
Neither probably knows how to actually run things. Which is a theme for the revolutions everywhere. That and hipocrisy.
And I'm sure this is a theme Oda will explore in the future, for sure.
But it doesn't mean that it isn't going to be overcome for the sake of the epilogue.
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@Galaxy:
Uhh yeah, it's pretty obvious their intention is for their people to keep trusting them instead of looking to alternative means (revolutionaries).
I would say that would be an overinterpretation. And Sengoku casually swearing makes me doubt the translation. But I concede, you could be right.
@Galaxy:
Sure, public trust is awesome.
But when it's to keep people in line and keep them from questioning their government? That's when it's an issue.
Yes, that's usually why goverments want public trust. Because running an organisation that has to succesfuly protect millions of people and their interests is quite difficult to do if you are scrutinised for everything.
@Galaxy:
This doesn't make the rational any better.
Never said it did.
@Galaxy:
How so? Citing Kuzan at Enies Lobby is silly since the protagonists were going to have their way there, regardless.
And if we're going to go here, it's easy to say that Sakazuki is awful at his job of protecting civilians, since he killed hundreds of them.
I was going to cite terrible perfomance of Smoker every time he appears. Or Tashigi. Or the failure of Garp with his children, all of them.
Kuzan? If giving Spandam right to call Buster Call seems like a statement of his abilities to you, then we are in disagreement.
@Galaxy:
Again, they care about people and their freedoms. You just need to bring competent and morally right Marines/Government officials such as Kong, Sengoku, Garp, Smoker, and Kuzan into the mix and it's filled with people that fit your "experience" criteria.
Sengoku organised Buster Call on Ohara, and was totaly okay with slaughter of innocent children to get Ace, and you still add him here? Not to mention Kong, of which we know nothing of?
Smoker? What did Smoker do to actually allows us to call him competent at keeping peace. Let Luffy do his work for him?
@Galaxy:
And I'm sure this is a theme Oda will explore in the future, for sure.
But it doesn't mean that it isn't going to be overcome for the sake of the epilogue.
True.
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I would say that would be an overinterpretation. And Sengoku casually swearing makes me doubt the translation. But I concede, you could be right.
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Nothing is too different.
Yes, that's usually why goverments want public trust. Because running an organisation that has to succesfuly protect millions of people and their interests is quite difficult to do if you are scrutinised for everything.
The point is that they don't care about protecting their civilians here.
They care about covering their own mistake. I would fault any government that covered up the escape of dangerous criminals that could at any time, destroy towns and kill innocents.
I was going to cite terrible perfomance of Smoker every time he appears. Or Tashigi. Or the failure of Garp with his children, all of them.
Smoker's poor performance is a post timeskip thing, as is Tashigi's, for the most part.
And Garp failed nobody. His son, grandson, and adoptive grandson each went after their own dreams and ambitions… something he obviously respects in each of them.
Kuzan? If giving Spandam right to call Buster Call seems like a statement of his abilities to you, then we are in disagreement.
This is the only iffy thing Kuzan ever really did. I don't think he honestly expected him to use it, but poor judgement, yeah.
Sengoku organised Buster Call on Ohara, and was totaly okay with slaughter of innocent children to get Ace, and you still add him here? Not to mention Kong, of which we know nothing of?
Hard to justify Sengoku going along with any of it, but I've always seen it as a "bite the bullet" situation, where he dealt with these things because his superiors told him to, and he honestly believed lives to be in danger.
And Kong seems to act like Sengoku, in a way. But we definitely need more information about him to paint a full picture, so I'll concede on him.
Smoker? What did Smoker do to actually allows us to call him competent at keeping peace. Let Luffy do his work for him?
Let's not forget the competence of Pre Timeskip Smoker. He investigated the Alabasta incident solo, for the most part, and was able to keep track of the Straw Hats for quite a while.
He isn't dumb.
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Just to clarify; Kuzan never gave the Golden Den Den Mushi to Spandaman, so get your facts straight.
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Just to clarify; Kuzan never gave the Golden Den Den Mushi to Spandaman, so get your facts straight.
Oh? That's news to me. Source? And how exactly did he aquired it?
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Oh? That's news to me. Source? And how exactly did he aquired it?
During the next week I'll have read einess loby again. I think that he blurts it out when he's retreating from Usopp, that he stole the thing.
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Oh? That's news to me. Source? And how exactly did he aquired it?
You have enough time, so go get it yourself or wait for Maxterdexter to provide you with the page.
