#SkeletonGate

Monkey King

Sex is part of normal life just as much as death and killing. Should we stop producing games with gore and death?

No one whatsoever is saying "take all sexuality out of games". That you think anyone is saying that here is either a sign of…

Being insanely unaware of what the discussion even is, or what it's about.
You're not arguing in good faith and are making childish babby answers on purpose.

So , too much of sex is… bad? While killing left and right is peachy?

Lots of sex in a porno or erotic game is fine. Such is the place. Much like the war game has lots of gore and violence.
Now why does the space marine lady in the serious space game have huge hooters in a body tight suit?

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@Papakis:

Ok then , as a movement Gamergate has denounced all these activities. Sourced and everything.

Yeah and there's no Russian troops in the Ukraine.
Wagomu please bring up that post again as you said it best.

Papakis

@Monkey:

No one whatsoever is saying "take all sexuality out of games". That you think anyone is saying that here is either a sign of…

Being insanely unaware of what the discussion even is, or what it's about.

You're not arguing in good faith and are making childish babby answers on purpose.

Lots of sex in a porno or erotic game is fine. Such is the place. Much like the war game has lots of gore and violence.
Now why does the space marine lady in the serious space game have huge hooters in a body tight suit?

We are not talking about removing naked ladies and multy-angled orgies out of games here. The complaints are comming for showing too much skin and for unrealistic body-types. Is that too much sex?

taboo

@Papakis:

Ok then , as a movement Gamergate has denounced all these activities. Sourced and everything.

are we finally gonna talk about journalism now

Monkey King

@Ekila:

Um, no it isn't. How would you feel if someone was cat-calling you on the street, and treating you like a piece of meat? I don't think you would not like that, not at all.

This is an important point. Like I get the feels from you Papakis that all you know about sexuality is what happens between you and you, and you and the wife.
And that's it! Tiny lil' frog pond of experience being projected outward as all encompassing understanding that it isn't whatsoever.

tarrin4ever

@Papakis:

Ok then , as a movement Gamergate has denounced all these activities. Sourced and everything.

They claim to denounce it in principle, but then exert a lot of effort to downplay its effects on women critical of the movement. Or imply it was all fabricated or faked.

And when those effected by the harassment seek means to silence it, it's branded as a conspiracy to stifle criticism.

Papakis

@taboo:

are we finally gonna talk about journalism now

16 characters of I hope so?

Satsuki

@Papakis:

I disagree , objectification is part of sexuality.

Gamergate doesn't hate women.

Robby

You really have zero concept of what any of this is about, do you.

Monkey King

@Papakis:

We are not talking about removing naked ladies and multy-angled orgies out of games here. The complaints are comming for showing too much skin and for unrealistic body-types. Is that too much sex?

Well bud that's why I posed that exact question to you.
Why does the space marine lady in the serious space game have huge hooters in a body tight suit?
Unrealistic body types….that's a sex issue to you? People wondering why every chick is a model? While the male characters have a variety of looks?

Wagomu

The suspenders thing, Zeph?

@Papakis:

Ok then , as a movement Gamergate has denounced all these activities. Sourced and everything.

@Wagomu:

I don't think this subject really deserves any more mention, but I've read through enough of this crap, so I'll make one last comment.

Let's say you're really into suspenders. You browse the local events in the paper and it turns out there's a convention for suspender lovers in just a couple of days. You go to the convention center, excited to see all kinds of exotic braces when, whoa, it turns out that a lot more nazi skinheads are into suspenders than you thought. In fact, the organization that runs this convention was founded by nazi skinheads and they are still in charge. Some of them are just there to peruse the lovely selection of galluses made available and most of the people hanging around are just regular folk enjoying the festivities, but off in a corner you notice that a few skinheads are using the convention as a sort of gathering spot for their own ends. They're planning hate crimes and harassing the people outside the convention (and a few on the inside who look a little too off-color for their tastes), which the organizers choose not to police (or maybe they half-heartedly tell them to cut it out, but only after they've received a complaint). One of the guest speakers that was invited talks about how Jewish control of industry is responsible for the decline in suspender production. He receives applause.

Do you stay in the convention just because they're the only one in town?

Papakis

@Robby:

You really have zero concept of what any of this is about, do you.

No , I do know what this is about , thanks.

Ekila

And Papakis completely ignored my post. I doubt he even has a counter-argument to what I said. He's just afraid of admitting that he is wrong.

taboo

this character is named Quiet and she is quiet

aslo she have titty

when you find out why she show titty you will feel great shame for ever thinking that showing titty could be bad

Papakis

@Monkey:

Well bud that's why I posed that exact question to you.
Why does the space marine lady in the serious space game have huge hooters in a body tight suit?

Why not? Is it bad if she has? Why would you slut-shame like this?

Monkey King

@tarrin4ever:

They claim to denounce it in principle, but then exert a lot of effort to downplay its effect. Or imply it was all fabricated or faked, and that it's all a conspiracy to stifle criticism.

And then there's the wing involved with the sci-fi book stuff which barely put down let alone condemned the significant wing led by a fascist version of Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory.

taboo

@Papakis:

Why not? Is it bad if she has? Why would you slut-shame like this?

slut shaming and wanting a character to have an actual personality and a functional outfit are two different things

Monkey King

@Papakis:

Why not? Is it bad if she has? Why would you slut-shame like this?

Ok, I'm gonna state this up front. I'm kind of like the big rock around the forum. Not like in a sense of being tough really, so much as I'm the large rock they like to toss into the pond so that the scummy and bad stuff gets flung up in the air from the water every now and a then.
Then they tend to clean up the scummy and bad stuff in my wake.

Now I was wondering earlier if you were arguing in bad faith and not actually trying to engage anyone seriously.

So.

With that in mind would you like to try and respond again?

Papakis

@Ekila:

And Papakis completely ignored my post. I doubt he even has a counter-argument to what I said. He's just afraid of admitting that he is wrong.

Sorry , as I said , too many posts for me to keep up.

Catcalling is a bad social behaviour , no dought. It's just one example of objectification though.

Monkey King

@Ekila:

And Papakis completely ignored my post. I doubt he even has a counter-argument to what I said. He's just afraid of admitting that he is wrong.

I find a lot of dude's have an incredibly hard time grasping what it's like to be the focus of sexual attention. They just seem to imagine it must be the best thing ever all the time every time.

Of course I'm talking about genuinely clueless people and not naughty naughty boys with very fragile forums accounts who should be responding like adults to questions they're asked.

Ekila

@Papakis:

Sorry , as I said , too many posts for me to keep up.

Catcalling is a bad social behaviour , no dought. It's just one example of objectification though.

Well, try to put yourself in a female's shoes. Try to imagine people treating you like an object. Don't you want to be treated like an human being?

@Monkey:

I find a lot of dude's have an incredibly hard time grasping what it's like to be the focus of sexual attention. They just seem to imagine it must be the best thing ever all the time every time.

Of course I'm talking about genuinely clueless people and not naughty naughty boys with very fragile forums accounts who should be responding like adults to questions they're asked.

I gotcha. It's just kinda sad that many people can't try to understand the other side, or try to understand that their actions might be wrong. There's nothing wrong with admitting that you did something wrong. Admiting you are wrong is a part of learning and growing to become a better you. But many people cannot understand this concept. Hopefully, things in the future will change, and people will be more understanding of one another.

Papakis

@Ekila:

Well, try to put yourself in a female's shoes. Try to imagine people treating you like an object. Don't you want to be treated like an human being?

I can't and it would be hypocritical if I would. What I'm saying is only based on sex studies.

Nitwit

I leave to listen to a One Piece Podcast for one hour and then a fight happens. :getlost:

Monkey King

Objectification really does have a lot to do with context.
Getting checked out in scenario A is cool, scenario B can be horribly creepy, scenario C might just be you're not in the goddamn mood.
Being a dude though I can only imagine adding "physical intimidation" to the mix on that! That'll multiply the ol' bad factor a ton!

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@Papakis:

I can't and it would be hypocritical if I would.

Fucking bullshit.

Ekila

@Papakis:

I can't and it would be hypocritical if I would. What I'm saying is only based on sex studies.

How would it be hypocritical if I may ask? Understanding the other side is a part of learning and growing to become a better person. And no one wants to be treated like an object. I know for sure I don't want to be treated like that. I want to be treated like an human being, that's for sure! How would you feel if everyone around you treated you like an object every day of your life?

Robby

Checking post history… one or two comments per spoiler thread every couple months, less than 100 posts in 5 years and... a bunch of posts in just this thread tonight. Hrm. Yeah. This won't be a major loss.

Monkey King

@Ekila:

How would it be hypocritical if I may ask? Understanding the other side is part of learning and growing to become a better person. And no one wants to be treated like an object. I know for sure I don't want to be treated like that. I want to be treated like an human being, that's for sure! How would you feel if everyone around you treated you like an object every day of your life?

Because he's intellectually lazy and/or making excuses.

Ekila

@Monkey:

Because he's intellectually lazy and/or making excuses.

Oh, I gotcha. I hope maybe my posts can make him understand that he's in the wrong. Though I have a feeling I won't be able to change his views, but I can always try XD

Papakis

@Ekila:

How would it be hypocritical if I may ask? Understanding the other side is a part of learning and growing to become a better person. And no one wants to be treated like an object. I know for sure I don't want to be treated like that. I want to be treated like an human being, that's for sure! How would you feel if everyone around you treated you like an object every day of your life?

Because taking my opinion on it on if I was a woman would be disgarded because it would be the wrong opinion. It's not the first time I've had this argument , it's a question with only one correct answer in your eyes.

Nitwit

@Papakis:

Because taking my opinion on it on if I was a woman would be disgarded because it would be the wrong opinion. It's not the first time I've had this argument , it's a question with only one correct answer in your eyes.

Buggy no! You were so good in the timeskip? Don't blow your chances man?

Ekila

@Papakis:

Because taking my opinion on it on if I was a woman would be disgarded because it would be the wrong opinion. It's not the first time I've had this argument , it's a question with only one correct answer in your eyes.

I see. O.o….... If you were to put yourself in a woman's shoes, you probably would have a very different opinion about this than what you have now. And you would be understanding. So, come on now, give it a try! Imagine yourself in their shoes! You can do it! Don't be afraid! :3

And how come you won't answer my other question? Again I say, how would you feel if you yourself suddenly started being treated like an object by everyone you know?

Papakis

@Nitwit:

Buggy no! You were so good in the timeskip? Don't blow your chances man?

Can't turn down love for Buggy.

Depends on the social situation. Loud dance club? Objectified please. Chill coffe shop? Eyes up here buddy.

Nami

Ok, I'll try too.

Papakis. I think you really don't grasp what can be wrong about Objectification. It just means you get praised for what you look like and that you look good, right? No, wrong.
Let's try it on an example. You work in a big company where you are the only man except for one more who brews the coffee every day. You go to a meeting, you are absolutely prepared for this. You worked your ass off for your presentation. You present. The woman just smile at you and cut you off in the middle of your talk, asking you to get some water. On your way out, one of the woman slaps you on the ass.

What happened?

Now imagine you're walking down the street. On the other side of the street 5 females are standing enjoying their coffee. You pass them, they whistles at you and yell at you "Gimme some of that meat!" Do you like that? Would you like itif that happened to you every day?

Nitwit

@Papakis:

Can't turn down love for Buggy.

Depends on the social situation. Loud dance club? Objectified please. Chill coffe shop? Eyes up here buddy.

You are just like your manga and anime counterpart! Add me on Skype?

Yobiyopi

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Ekila

This post is deleted!

Papakis

@Nami:

Ok, I'll try too.

Papakis. I think you really don't grasp what can be wrong about Objectification. It just means you get praised for what you look like and that you look good, right? No, wrong.
Let's try it on an example. You work in a big company where you are the only man except for one more who brews the coffee every day. You go to a meeting, you are absolutely prepared for this. You worked your ass off for your presentation. You present. The woman just smile at you and cut you off in the middle of your talk, asking you to get some water. On your way out, one of the woman slaps you on the ass.

What happened?

Now imagine you're walking down the street. On the other side of the street 5 females are standing enjoying their coffee. You pass them, they whistles at you and yell at you "Gimme some of that meat!" Do you like that? Would you like itif that happened to you every day?

Sexual harasment is not a sub-total of objectification , come on.

Ekila

@Papakis:

Sexual harasment is not a sub-total of objectification , come on.

Most of the time objectification is a form of sexual harassment! You are not really understanding what everyone is trying to tell you. Not at all.

Monkey King

@Papakis:

Sexual harasment is not a sub-total of objectification , come on.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Key word being "can". Did I say it can't be?

And at any point are you gonna ride the eureka express out to seeing how having every female character be sexed up for no reason plays into negative attitudes is burdensome in this regard? Where everywhere you turn is SEX LADY, SEX LADY, SEX LADY, SEX LADY? Completely irregardless of context?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Ekila:

Most of the time objectification is a form of sexual harassment! You are not really understanding what everyone is trying to tell you. Not at all.

He's really awkwardly using the term (I think lol) to refer to sexual attraction toward something.

Ekila

@Monkey:

He's really awkwardly using the term (I think lol) to refer to sexual attraction toward something.

Yeah, I think so too. I think he's so stuck on his "definition" of objectification, that he won't try to understand what other people are trying to tell him. He basically thinks he is 100% right, and everyone else is 100% wrong.

Robby

@Yobiyopi:

"people were slow to accept that the world was round"

Actually, thats just a myth taught in elementary schools to make children feel better, and to think "we're so much smarter than we were hundreds of years ago!" They knew the world was round, and even the size more or less, at least as far back as ancient Greece, due to horizon lines and circumference math. But its taught so readily people accept it as truth. The world wasn't conceived as flat, so much as they didn't know there was another landmass and figured the distance was impossible to travel… which it was until later model ships came along.

If civilization ever actually did think the world was flat, it was so far back as to be a non issue... it certainly wasn't still true by the time of Columbus.

Also, Christopher COlumbus was a complete asshole and we really need to stop celebrating him.

Nami

@Papakis:

Sexual harasment is not a sub-total of objectification , come on.

Can sexual harassment exist without prior objectification? If yes, pls elobarate. Give me examples.

Papakis

@Nami:

Can sexual harassment exist without prior objectification? If yes, pls elobarate. Give me examples.

Imagine any sexual social interaction without prior objectification. Now remove concent. (Unless you want to tell me that there is no sexual interaction without objectification at all)

Ekila

@Papakis:

Imagine any sexual social interaction without prior objectification. Now remove concent. (Unless you want to tell me that there is no sexual interaction without objectification at all)

You did not really try to answer Nami's question. Not at all.

Wagomu

Here's a freebie for you: objectification is treating someone as an object. Which is to say not a human.

Noqanky

@Robby:

Actually, thats just a myth taught in elementary schools to make children feel better, and to think "we're so much smarter than we were hundreds of years ago!" They knew the world was round, and even the size more or less, at least as far back as ancient Greece, due to horizon lines and circumference math. But its taught so readily people accept it as truth. The world wasn't conceived as flat, so much as they didn't know there was another landmass and figured the distance was impossible to travel… which it was until later model ships came along.

If civilization ever actually did think the world was flat, it was so far back as to be a non issue... it certainly wasn't still true by the time of Columbus.

Also, Christopher COlumbus was a complete asshole and we really need to stop celebrating him.

Fair point, but the sad reality of life is that we have stuff like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies

Just like we have people still saying Columbus was a hero and sexuality can't exist if you don't treat people as objects.

What baffles me completely is that here's this dude asking to be treated in a civil manner and asking for data while talking out of his ass like he has a shred of a clue on what sexuality is. We're wrong for making overarching claims about GamerGate, but he's completely free to make claims about what women want and what sexuality is based on his own tiny, penis-led view of what the world is supposed to be.

Don't think there's any point in me saying more than that.

Foolio

@Noqanky:

We're wrong for making overarching claims about GamerGate, but he's completely free to make claims about what women want and what sexuality is based on his own tiny, penis-led view of what the world is supposed to be.

But he won't dare try to imagine being in a woman's shoes!! That's wrong and would lead him to the incorrect conclusions.

Papakis

@Noqanky:

Fair point, but the sad reality of life is that we have stuff like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies

Just like we have people still saying Columbus was a hero and sexuality can't exist if you don't treat people as objects.

What baffles me completely is that here's this dude asking to be treated in a civil manner and asking for data while talking out of his ass like he has a shred of a clue on what sexuality is. We're wrong for making overarching claims about GamerGate, but he's completely free to make claims about what women want and what sexuality is based on his own tiny, penis-led view of what the world is supposed to be.

Don't think there's any point in me saying more than that.

Not at all. Why didn't you ask for sources or something if you wanted them?

Satsuki

@Papakis:

Sexual harasment is not a sub-total of objectification , come on.

Blagtastic

I love trotting out this video because sometimes it helps to see it if visualized completely.
Warning video in the spoiler does contains bare breasts and a fictionalized sexual assault.

!

Nami

@Papakis:

Imagine any sexual social interaction without prior objectification. Now remove concent. (Unless you want to tell me that there is no sexual interaction without objectification at all)

DINGDINGDING

What is a sexual social situation? You know, if that would have been an english paper, I'd give you 1point. Maybe 2 if I'm nice. Because I gave you a task and you didn't care to take it. This is what you do here with everyone. You want to obviously discuss with us? But you are not ready to actually read and answer our stuff thoroughly. Therefore you want to just talk with yourself? And for that there's wordpress, diaries, tumblr, microsoft word, you name it.

So if you don't care to contribute and explain us your views, please get out.