Internet trolls vs Internet flamers. Pretty fun for a neutral to read how people can get so pissed off about certain things, and what they say to each other when they believe they have the moral superiority over other.
The two are not on equal ground.
The flaming camp has a valid reason to be angry.
The trolling camp only does what they do to offend and harass.
Trolls are far worse.
To me it just feels weird that when there's other awesome female characters in games instead we just wind up creating super specific lithmus tests of why they count or not as actual viable female characters.
Also of note is that the marketing teams of games don't always necessarily reflect the interests of developers, so even if teams like those of Mass Effect and other franchises that allow for characters of different gender, race and color, it's not unlikely that the marketing teams pandering to the idea of the pasty white male as a gamer will highlight the white male as the default. You know, since the narrative of the world as a whole is that white male IS the default, and that's a mentality every media ever still has to deal with.
This in no way should be used to diminish the efforts for inclusion of these teams, since instead we should be appreciative of the fact they did that when they easily could have not and sold just as much. It's the kind of move that can lead more people to ask "why isn't this more of a thing?" and maybe we could even start asking for more games to do that, which is what a lot of people cry foul of when it comes to Assassin's Creed developers feeling like a female option is too much of a bother to include.
Also, let's talk animal crossing and smash bros character trailers:
! Villager and Wii Fit Trainer were both revealed during the same window of time, and it is because of this that it makes sense that one would be depicted as default male and the other as default female, seeing how a lot of the marketing effort in this game is to pander to all demographics. Well, all white demographics because, well, Nintendo is still kind of japanese and sucks at characters of race. But anyway
Now, Robin. Robin suffers from the same fate where he was revealed at the same time as Lucina, a female character. Given this, it is reasonable that they wanted to promote both a male and female newcomer in their trailers to reach as many people as possible and promote inclusion that way.
Am I being defensive of smash? Of fucking course I am because compared to the female options in past games the ones in this one are pretty freaking awesome. Could we get more? Goddamn yes, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the fact that the company as a whole is cognizant enough of the sheer number of female players that pretty much half of the newcomers are female by default or have the female option.
! Of course, we can go further back in the games and establish that Villager and Robin as avatar characters can be considered as genderless as pokemon, seeing how in their games they're pretty much depicted male as often as they are shown as female. FE: Awakening even has Robin wearing the hooded in promotion to avoid the problem and features Chrom and Lucina equally prominently.
Then there's animal crossing. You say that in games with male and female variants the male gets the credit, but in all animal crossing promotion I can think of there's always male and female with the sole exception of the original.
! >!
Even in Mario Kart DLC the villager is given as male because Isabelle is female. Animal Crossing winds up consistently keeping things equal, at least for gender … still no black villagers for some reason.
! Damn, that took too long.
If someone complains that the women in video games are weak or fragile, they didn't play Touhou Project.
When AP used to be good:
NEVER FORGET !!
Skeletons found from the White House dig have begun to move and organize. They claim to be American skeletons and are demanding that their citizenship be reinstated. The White House declined to comment on the matter. #SkeletonGate #Necrocracy #DeadSerious
If someone complains that the women in video games are weak or fragile, they didn't play Touhou Project.
Well it is a shoot em up so….
http://www.clickhole.com/article/summary-gamergate-movement-we-will-immediately-cha-1241
"One need only spend three or four hours perusing Gamergate message boards to know that the main thing members of the movement want is ethics in gaming journalism—there aren’t enough ethics, and so, one way or another, there will have to be more ethics."
" It is not composed, as the mainstream media would lead you to believe, solely of white male trolls. It also has female trolls. It has African-American trolls and Asian trolls, gay trolls and straight trolls. In fact, Gamergate is all about the inclusion of anyone—regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation—whose views on video games and how we should think about them conform exactly to those of the movement at large."
"Like you, we value ethics in journalism, and will alter our content in whatever way you feel best supports those values."
To me it just feels weird that when there's other awesome female characters in games instead we just wind up creating super specific lithmus tests of why they count or not as actual viable female characters.
Also of note is that the marketing teams of games don't always necessarily reflect the interests of developers, so even if teams like those of Mass Effect and other franchises that allow for characters of different gender, race and color, it's not unlikely that the marketing teams pandering to the idea of the pasty white male as a gamer will highlight the white male as the default. You know, since the narrative of the world as a whole is that white male IS the default, and that's a mentality every media ever still has to deal with.
This in no way should be used to diminish the efforts for inclusion of these teams, since instead we should be appreciative of the fact they did that when they easily could have not and sold just as much. It's the kind of move that can lead more people to ask "why isn't this more of a thing?" and maybe we could even start asking for more games to do that, which is what a lot of people cry foul of when it comes to Assassin's Creed developers feeling like a female option is too much of a bother to include.Also, let's talk animal crossing and smash bros character trailers:
! Villager and Wii Fit Trainer were both revealed during the same window of time, and it is because of this that it makes sense that one would be depicted as default male and the other as default female, seeing how a lot of the marketing effort in this game is to pander to all demographics. Well, all white demographics because, well, Nintendo is still kind of japanese and sucks at characters of race. But anyway
Now, Robin. Robin suffers from the same fate where he was revealed at the same time as Lucina, a female character. Given this, it is reasonable that they wanted to promote both a male and female newcomer in their trailers to reach as many people as possible and promote inclusion that way.
Am I being defensive of smash? Of fucking course I am because compared to the female options in past games the ones in this one are pretty freaking awesome. Could we get more? Goddamn yes, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the fact that the company as a whole is cognizant enough of the sheer number of female players that pretty much half of the newcomers are female by default or have the female option.
! Of course, we can go further back in the games and establish that Villager and Robin as avatar characters can be considered as genderless as pokemon, seeing how in their games they're pretty much depicted male as often as they are shown as female. FE: Awakening even has Robin wearing the hooded in promotion to avoid the problem and features Chrom and Lucina equally prominently.
Then there's animal crossing. You say that in games with male and female variants the male gets the credit, but in all animal crossing promotion I can think of there's always male and female with the sole exception of the original.
! >! [qimg]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-t-lWPR6mbF8/US0d2TbMi4I/AAAAAAAAI4A/kP0-Kcqn40g/s1600/AnimalCrossingWildWorld_DS_boxart.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.animal-crossing.com/cityfolk/_ui/img/misc/box-art-262x360.png[/qimg]
[qimg]http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121217043515/animalcrossing/images/5/55/Nl_box_art.jpg[/qimg]
Even in Mario Kart DLC the villager is given as male because Isabelle is female. Animal Crossing winds up consistently keeping things equal, at least for gender … still no black villagers for some reason.
! Damn, that took too long.When you have so few female characters (and I mean this in regards to the number of male characters in games) it does start to be more important how the character looks and acts because the character becomes more representative of the female population as a whole as opposed to an individual character with thoughts and feelings etc. For example, in Orange is the New Black, it's okay to have a sexy lesbian character like Alex because there's a whole cast of other lesbian and bisexual women to off put the 'sexy lesbian' trope.
! Fire Emblem is a great example of a game that has a huge cast of women, but I think gaming as a whole can do better. I love Samus and she is arguably my favorite game character, but comparing her to other 'solitary heroes' of games is frustrating because the male heroes never feel a need to 'express their sexuality' in the midst of getting shit done (which I feel like Samus is definitely a character who values getting shit done, so the heels and suit and etc just drive me nuts because we could be getting cool guns or suit upgrades, etc)
! I assume the test you're talking about is the bechdel test, which is kind of funny because its like the absolute bare minimum as far as tests go. As a woman, 95% of my life is spent not talking about men and a very large percentage of that is talking to other women, so the test in question is really just 'testing the waters' so to speak to see if the writers of the female character in question really took into account the thoughts and actual life of the character (as opposed to just making the female character to enhance the life/story of a male character, etc). It's not the end all of tests, just a minor one. It wouldn't even be important at all if so many stories hadn't failed it.
! –- Update From New Post Merge ---
! @CCC:
! > http://www.clickhole.com/article/summary-gamergate-movement-we-will-immediately-cha-1241?utm_campaign=default&utm_medium=ShareTools&utm_source=facebook"One need only spend three or four hours perusing Gamergate message boards to know that the main thing members of the movement want is ethics in gaming journalism—there aren’t enough ethics, and so, one way or another, there will have to be more ethics."
Oh I wondered what this thread was… it was about that topic... well have fun everyone I guess.
Oh I wondered what this thread was… it was about that topic... well have fun everyone I guess.
skeleton talk only please, no flesh-havers allowed
And to think you hadn't wanted to make this thread, Taboo.
If someone complains that the women in video games are weak or fragile, they didn't play Touhou Project.
Female representation in games IS Getting better, but we still have a long way to go. Just because there's some games with good representation, doesn't mean it isn't still lopsided.
I also notice tho, that my intent to get Pro GamerGater's to explain why talking about underrepresented demographics in gaming makes one a "Social Justice Warrior" and why that's a bad thing. I notice we've had 2 or so of those types here, and not a single one has commented…
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
It could be also that it's clear that we're not intent on listening to their side of the story as to why they decide to stick to a group that clearly discourages ethical journalism and is otherwise a hate mongering group
Can't we all love each other. Because deep down: We're all skeletons.
So, lesse what's happening right now.
Nissan pulled its ads off Gawker.
Adobe pulled its ads off Gawker (though I've heard some people say they never had ads in the first place).
Olympus pulled its ads off Gawker.
Unpaid Gawker interns are making progress in their class-action lawsuit.
Zoe Quinn shares a doxx of Cernovich.
Aaaaaand Gawker's editor-in-chief wrote an article about how Intel is full of idiots even though Intel still has ads on his site. Way to go, genius.
My impression is that those results are from tweets that are crossing the line and mark some bullying. A lot of companies make it clear and make mention of "not condoning bullying"
But what does this mean about "journalism ethics"?
@Purple:
My impression is that those results are from tweets that are crossing the line and mark some bullying. A lot of companies make it clear and make mention of "not condoning bullying"
But what does this mean about "journalism ethics"?
I mean congratulations on achieving results… but what direction are the results in? That you're effectively forcing silence of one of the parties involved because of their tone of their responses? Then they will listen to their sponsors and retract such a tone and you will have not inched any closer to what you purportedly want. Is this really a cause to say "we achieved something!"?
Barack Obama changed his tone about his detractors of the massive skeleton graveyard but will we ever get any answers about why the government has one?? #Skeletongate
I always wondered, what's the endgame plan? What even is the plan other than harrassing Gawker's advertisers?
GamerGate shits on Zoe Quinn's cornflakes, and then Zoe Quinn shits on GamerGate's cornflakes? What information does that even provide? Am I supposed to go, "Oh! Zoe did it? Well that justifies GamerGate entirely!"
Oh, those skeletons! I kept wondering and wondering, and then I finally understood which skeletons you were referring to.
They're probably a few leftovers from Dick Cheney's Skeleton Man Army. The one he planned to conquer Earth with back in 2012, with a little help from his fellow Vulture People. They're only semi-organic, so they decay very slowly. Wild pigs absolutely loathe them, which is why the ancient Celts used hundreds of wild pigs to obliterate the Skeleton Men over two millennia ago. They built Stonehenge on the site of the battle both to commemorate the event, and to have a kickin' set of speakers for the free concert they held in celebration of surviving the vulture peoples' merciless assault. Cheney abandoned his plans when Planet X failed to appear within range of Earth in December 2012. Obama is probably using a black-market registry of illegal pig breeders to find a suitably large sow to patrol the White House grounds, just in case.
#TheTruthIsHistory, #SecretSkeksis
I'm laughing at Zoe showing Chernoshit's doxx being presented as a bad thing
The asshole was LITERARALLY SAYING IT WAS LEGAL and vocally supporting it. HE SUPPORTS IT
the obungler is gonna get us in a skeleton war with ISIS
BREAKIGN NEWS: ISIS WAS IN GAME JOURNALISM THE WHOLE TIME
ALLAH AKBAR 64
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
Gawker is literally Hitler's skeleton
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
i also notice my question about exactly what is wrong with discussing literally anything about their objectives and what they want to fix in gaming has continued to go unanswered by pro-gamergaters.
Yup.
ftfy .
@Purple:
ftfy .
Ethics Purple… What they want, are Ethics.
And they'll tell us exactly what their standards for ethics are… they will... if we believe hard enough and put our video games under our pillows.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
Well, for some time now Astarte has been associated with Isis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis#Greco-Roman_world
And if Astarte is a cognate of Ishtar, then ISIS using skeletons against us isn't so hard to believe.
I'm like Hisotensoku: Not here to preserve peace, nor to destroy it. I certainly can't move mountains. Mostly, I'm just full of hot air.- Meh
ISIS
wife of the egyptian god of the dead
Osiris
The Sky Dragon Osiris
Slifer the Sky Dragon
Slifer the Executive Producer
Executive Office
Obama!
I knew he was linked to ISIS and that he was channeling their powers of the dead and skeletons
@_Meh_:
Well, for some time now Astarte has been associated with Isis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis#Greco-Roman_worldAnd if Astarte is a cognate of Ishtar, then ISIS using skeletons against us isn't so hard to believe.
were fukked
 
@Purple:
ISIS
wife of the egyptian god of the dead
Osiris
The Sky Dragon Osiris
Slifer the Sky Dragon
Slifer the Executive Producer
Executive Office
Obama!I knew he was linked to ISIS and that he was channeling their powers of the dead and skeletons
wait… did you just confirm Half Life 3?!
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
But that's six points of separation! Doesn't that mean that Kevin Bacon is also involved somehow?!
Gasp!!!
Kevin Bacon is the only one that can save us!
wait… did you just confirm Half Life 3?!
Weird we've gone this far in and no one's made a Grim Fandango reference.
I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284
Weird we've gone this far in and no one's made a Grim Fandango reference.
First post on page 4, silly goose.
This thread and all of you are a joke.
Skeletons are a real problem and all of you are just making fun of it, trying to put it under the carpet. I´m not even going to start talking about the Pro-Skeleton mods around here. No wonder the other countries hate us. Ban me if you want.
This thread might as well be renamed #SkeletonParty
This thread and all of you are a joke.
Skeletons are a real problem and all of you are just making fun of it, trying to put it under the carpet. I´m not even going to start talking about the Pro-Skeleton mods around here. No wonder the other countries hate us. Ban me if you want.
This thread might as well be renamed #SkeletonParty
http://media.giphy.com/media/vYzK3UIf5jXC8/giphy.gif
Can you support your claim with a source?
turns out most of the Gawker advertiser astroturfing is being coordinated by a forum run by the Return of Kings guy, an openly misogynistic MRA site. So whether it's harassing women out of their homes or causing financial damage, literally all the direct action as a result of #SkeletonGate is being caused by the misogynistic hate squads. Guys, I don't think there is a substantive middle ground here
But Stephen! Surely Return of Kings is just an openly vocal minority of #skeletongate! Just because it was massively coordinated by them doesn't mean that's how the rest of the gamergaters feel!
In fact I'm pretty sure they have no idea what they're feeling at all.
I want to believe too big guy3ds code friend:0404-6254-1866
