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    Regarding Spoilers, Scanlations and the Official Release of Weekly Shonen Jump.

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    • Y
      YonkouProductions
      last edited by
      Y
      spiral
      YonkouProductions
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      Firstly I'm going to request that this remains a spoiler free thread given the release of Chapter 731.

      Now, I'd like to think that AP is generally more educated on the relationship between "Scanlations" and the Official release of the Weekly Shonen Jump Magazine, but just incase I'll run it down for everyone.

      Shonen Jump magazine gets released on Mondays officially in Japan. Viz's Weekly Shonen Jump release is usually simultaneous with the Japanese release (but they don't adjust for Japanese holidays).
      Scanlators get their scans whenever a retailer in Japan puts the magazine on the shelf early and someone uploads it online. Magazines generally get delivered to stores about 5 days early, but they aren't supposed to sell it until the official date (usually every Monday). Over the christmas holidays and whenever there is a Monday break(holiday), the magazine would be have a street date on a Saturday prior so that means that scanlations will come out even earlier in the following weeks (possibly Monday or Tuesday) before the 2 week hiatus in January.

      This week's leaked scanlation of Chapter 731 has really been a game-changer in my opinion towards those who read scanlations. Personally I've taken a 180 on my stance to this issue and I think that Viz should go after scanlators in a more aggressive manner in a similar fashion to February 2012 and the MangaStream. Particularly MangaPanda who have no regard for any morals and ethics since they've pretty much rip off other scanlating groups for the revenue they make from that ad-ridden site of theirs.

      Upon gazing Twitter for the last few days I've seen countless Japanese fans (and thats just the few that know English) along with Viz readers agonise over spoilers thanks to the leaks of the chapter by scanlators. I think Greg and The One Piece Podcast can vouch for this as well. On a related note, I'm a moderator of /r/OnePiece and we had to start clamping down on spoilers from 12 hours prior to the release and the I personally spent 36 hours (and cans of Mother's and Redbull) making sure spoilers didn't impact readers of the Official release as well as the readers of the simultaneous magazine. As of right now we've deleted over 80 threads and countless comments trying to prevent spoilers.

      To prevent these situations occurring in the future what do you think is the middle ground on this scenario. In my opinion, I think the middle ground is having Viz force scanlators to follow their release schedule or face the threat of being shut down. As such this will allow both aspects of the fandom to experience the release in a timely fashion without the issue of spoilers.

      Now, I'd like to ask you on your opinion on the issue of scanlations and spoilers, and if it is available to you in your country do you still support Viz's WSJ even regardless of whether or not you read scanlations. Also what do you think would be the best compromise to pervent situations like this week's spoilerfest.

      –-

      Edit: If you may want a full explanation on the full scanlation leaks and how they work I'll edit this in, as a request by someone who just learnt about the 'business'

      I'll explain it in full for Mangastream(who have a Japanese RAW provider) and MangaPanda (Chinese RAW Provider). Take for example Ch. 731 as a reference. Officially it came out Monday this week in both America (albeit the 24hr time zone difference) and Japan. Now that chapter came out the Wednesday of last week through scanlations. How scanlations come out before the official release is that Shueisha (the head company of WSJ) has to print the magazine and send it to all the convenience store all around Japan before the public release date. When dealing with the entirety of Japan they have to give themselves a leeway or gap so that they can manage that, so usually 1 week before the release date most retailers have a copy but aren't allowed to sell it. Scanlators work by taking advantage of the 1 week leeway given to retailers and do their work on the chapters by translating, cleaning, redrawing, typesetting e.t.c to post online. By the time its ready the official release is at least 5 days away.

      The majority of this applies to MangaPanda but they source their chapter from the Chinese/Taiwanese simulcast of the physical magazine. They plays a crucial role/difference in when chapters get scanlated on Japanese holidays. Since the Chinese (and American FYI) release get delayed during Japanese holidays like Golden Week and Obon Holiday we end up seeing leaks of the Chinese magazine up to 10 days before the release date. MangaPanda who have a Chinese RAW provider are able to then translate the chapters super early through Chinese -> English translations. MangaStream tend to avoid having to do the Chinese -> Japanese -> English release because supposedly it affects their quality by providing shitty quality translations and scans, so those don't get released until the usual 5 days before release. For example, Chapter 732 came out 2 days ago from scanlations on Tuesday. Usually chapters are expected on Wednesday 5 days earlier but when the Japanese have a holiday on the Monday when the Official release is supposed to come out they have a Saturday release (which the American release doesn't adjust for) which then means scanlations can come out up to 7 days from the official release date.

      Most of this took close to a year to piece together and understand for me by relying on sources both in Japan and outside of Japan. I hope I was clear enough for you all to understand the processes behind how the 'scanlating business' works.

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      • S
        Sabo1
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        • Maju
          Maju
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          if viz can force scanlator to do anything,is to cease any activity immediately..there's not gonna be an agreement between the two parts.

          personally,I'm Italian..here, we have the manga ,but it's of course behind the scans from japan..and the translation,while not totally terrible,pales in comparison to the best scans you can find online,both in english and then in italian too….i must admit that I enjoy onepiece even more now that i follow the chapters every week instead of weating for the volume to come out ...the better and more loyal translation plays an huge part too.I still buy the italian volumes though,that's my way to support the series.

          talking about spoilers....you can't stop the internet,it's useless,either trying to force the scanlations to come out later or people to not spoil anything it's useless..if someone doesn't want to get spoiled,just avoid onepiece sites near release

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          • knceng
            knceng
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            no one can stop mangapanda

            @Maju:

            if someone doesn't want to get spoiled,just avoid onepiece sites near release

            but they can't avoid it completly when the new chapter were discuss/pop up all over the place (youtube,fb,twitt,etc)

            Maju S 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • K
              Kingdomkey
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              The only "solution" I can think of to stopping early scanlation sites like Mangapanda that are out of Viz' grasp is if Weekly Shonen Jump becomes a digital only magazine in Japan, and they make it extremely hard to hack into/access early. But I can't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

              Y 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Y
                YonkouProductions @Kingdomkey
                @Kingdomkey last edited by
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                YonkouProductions
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                @Kingdomkey:

                The only "solution" I can think of to stopping early scanlation sites like Mangapanda that are out of Viz' grasp is if Weekly Shonen Jump becomes a digital only magazine in Japan, and they make it extremely hard to hack into/access early. But I can't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

                Despite the monumental steps forward, Shueisha has taken over the past few years, the chances of WSJ becoming all digital is extremely low given by the fact that their current business model is "working". However currently there are a inefficiencies in their business model of which is the result of leads to scanlations being published prior to the street date. Also there is the fact that it needs to be international.

                –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                @Maju:

                talking about spoilers….you can't stop the internet,it's useless,either trying to force the scanlations to come out later or people to not spoil anything it's useless..if someone doesn't want to get spoiled,just avoid onepiece sites near release

                I understand but making yourself live under a rock for 5 days avoiding spoilers isn't a pleasant experience.

                knceng 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • knceng
                  knceng @YonkouProductions
                  @YonkouProductions last edited by
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                  @YonkouProductions:

                  Despite the monumental steps forward, Shueisha has taken over the past few years, the chances of WSJ becoming all digital is extremely low given by the fact that their current business model is "working". However currently there are a inefficiencies in their business model of which is the result of leads to scanlations being published prior to the street date. Also there is the fact that it needs to be international.

                  Thay have to deliver the magz to distributor 1 day before the official release. The reason they deliver it early is if they need to make correction (the magz's content), they can pull it back from distributor.

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                  • Maju
                    Maju @knceng
                    @knceng last edited by
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                    @knceng:

                    no one can stop mangapanda

                    but they can't avoid it completly when the new chapter were discuss/pop up all over the place (youtube,fb,twitt,etc)

                    well i managed to avoid any spoiler..yeah i got a little burned because given the excitement around the chapter i already knew something "big" was going to happen..but i had no idea what.
                    but the point is,the "internet" cannot be stopped..just as much you can't stop people from pirating .you can't put everyone on the same page,is utopistic,the best you can do is choose a better onepiece site to visit (one where spoiling something is banned,like in this forum),or get better friends on facebook and follow better twitters,friends and twit that will not spoil you the chapter…that's the only way

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                    • loledinmypants
                      loledinmypants
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                      Stopping scanlations wouldn't stop raws from being uploaded which in turn wouldn't stop spoilers (or scripts which would spoil pretty much the same things as a scanlation). Really unless Shueisha decides to step up on this front you won't be able to avoid spoilers (or having to live under a rock for 5 days to avoid spoilers). And I can't see them going very far out of their way to make Jump digital only with strong security on the site. It'd be a pretty huge investment to change what's not broken in their eyes. And there aren't many other feasible ways to prevent early leaks (even 1 day early is still early and would spoil things for anyone who hears about it on fb or twitter).

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                      • Y
                        YonkouProductions @knceng
                        @knceng last edited by
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                        @knceng:

                        Thay have to deliver the magz to distributor 1 day before the official release. The reason they deliver it early is if they need to make correction (the magz's content), they can pull it back from distributor.

                        I'm pretty sure it gets delivered closer to 1 week earlier. Also the Chinese/Taiwan magazine gets simultaneous release with Japan hence the awful mangapanda scans.

                        –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                        @loledinmypants:

                        Stopping scanlations wouldn't stop raws from being uploaded which in turn wouldn't stop spoilers (or scripts which would spoil pretty much the same things as a scanlation). Really unless Shueisha decides to step up on this front you won't be able to avoid spoilers (or having to live under a rock for 5 days to avoid spoilers). And I can't see them going very far out of their way to make Jump digital only with strong security on the site. It'd be a pretty huge investment to change what's not broken in their eyes. And there aren't many other feasible ways to prevent early leaks (even 1 day early is still early and would spoil things for anyone who hears about it on fb or twitter).

                        Jump going all digital in Japan is a pipe-dream. As for RAWs, I think the fact that scanlations/official releases aren't out makes people naturally avoid them since there isn't as much pleasure in reading a script. Plus people will actually have respect for people who read the magazine when it legitimately comes out as opposed to this current system where nobody cares as soon as a scanlation is out.

                        knceng 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • knceng
                          knceng @YonkouProductions
                          @YonkouProductions last edited by
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                          @YonkouProductions:

                          I'm pretty sure it gets delivered closer to 1 week earlier. Also the Chinese/Taiwan magazine gets simultaneous release with Japan hence the awful mangapanda scans.

                          That's what i said, stop deliver it early to minimize the spoiler.

                          Enzeru Y 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Enzeru
                            Enzeru
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                            Enzeru
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                            Right now there's not much anyone can do to prevent an early leak of spoilers or the chapter itself (see Chinese scans). We live in a digital age dominated by social media and the likes, making it very easy to share such delicate information with the world. Sure, you can avoid OP related sites and watch out for spoilers, but that's about all one can do to avoid being spoiled. It's sad, I definitely agree, but it's just how it is at the moment.

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                            • M
                              Muginiz @loledinmypants
                              @loledinmypants last edited by
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                              @loledinmypants:

                              Stopping scanlations wouldn't stop raws from being uploaded which in turn wouldn't stop spoilers (or scripts which would spoil pretty much the same things as a scanlation).

                              This.
                              To be honest, I don't think there is any way to completely stop the leaks. However, reducing the week-long (or whatever the actual number is) gap between the arrival of the magazines in the stores and the actual release might help in delaying the raws from being uploaded before the official street date.

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                              • Enzeru
                                Enzeru @knceng
                                @knceng last edited by
                                Enzeru
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                                @knceng:

                                That's what i said, stop deliver it early to minimize the spoiler.

                                Have fun getting the magazine to every reader in Japan without delivering it early.

                                knceng 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Y
                                  YonkouProductions @knceng
                                  @knceng last edited by
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                                  @knceng:

                                  That's what i said, stop deliver it early to minimize the spoiler.

                                  Remember, its not that easy with a magazine like WSJ. Obviously the reason they are having it shipped 5-7 days early to retailers is because of the fact that it allows for the entire manufacturing and distribution of the magazine to occur in a timely manner so that there are no delays in the hundreds of stores that sell WSJ. If they reduced that time you'd have Apple-esque cues at every retailer and they have to avoid that,

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                                  • knceng
                                    knceng @Enzeru
                                    @Enzeru last edited by
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                                    @Enzeru:

                                    Have fun getting the magazine to every reader in Japan without delivering it early.

                                    Sorry, i don't understand what you said…

                                    @YonkouProductions:

                                    Remember, its not that easy with a magazine like WSJ. Obviously the reason they are having it shipped 5-7 days early to retailers is because of the fact that it allows for the entire manufacturing and distribution of the magazine to occur in a timely manner so that there are no delays in the hundreds of stores that sell WSJ. If they reduced that time you'd have Apple-esque cues at every retailer and they have to avoid that,

                                    The book's left in the warehouse for 5-7 days, that's where the spoiler came from. If they can reduce that time, then the chance the official readers getting spoiler is also reduced.

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                                    • rereboy
                                      rereboy
                                      last edited by
                                      rereboy
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                                      @YonkouProductions:

                                      Firstly I'm going to request that this remains a spoiler free thread given the release of Chapter 731.

                                      Now, I'd like to think that AP is generally more educated on the relationship between "Scanlations" and the Official release of the Weekly Shonen Jump Magazine, but just incase I'll run it down for everyone.

                                      Shonen Jump magazine gets released on Mondays officially in Japan. Viz's Weekly Shonen Jump release is usually simultaneous with the Japanese release (but they don't adjust for Japanese holidays).
                                      Scanlators get their scans whenever a retailer in Japan puts the magazine on the shelf early and someone uploads it online. Magazines generally get delivered to stores about 5 days early, but they aren't supposed to sell it until the official date (usually every Monday). Over the christmas holidays and whenever there is a Monday break(holiday), the magazine would be have a street date on a Saturday prior so that means that scanlations will come out even earlier in the following weeks (possibly Monday or Tuesday) before the 2 week hiatus in January.

                                      This week's leaked scanlation of Chapter 731 has really been a game-changer in my opinion towards those who read scanlations. Personally I've taken a 180 on my stance to this issue and I think that Viz should go after scanlators in a more aggressive manner in a similar fashion to February 2012 and the MangaStream. Particularly MangaPanda who have no regard for any morals and ethics since they've pretty much rip off other scanlating groups for the revenue they make from that ad-ridden site of theirs.

                                      Upon gazing Twitter for the last few days I've seen countless Japanese fans (and thats just the few that know English) along with Viz readers agonise over spoilers thanks to the leaks of the chapter by scanlators. I think Greg and The One Piece Podcast can vouch for this as well. On a related note, I'm a moderator of /r/OnePiece and we had to start clamping down on spoilers from 12 hours prior to the release and the I personally spent 36 hours (and cans of Mother's and Redbull) making sure spoilers didn't impact readers of the Official release as well as the readers of the simultaneous magazine. As of right now we've deleted over 80 threads and countless comments trying to prevent spoilers.

                                      To prevent these situations occurring in the future what do you think is the middle ground on this scenario. In my opinion, I think the middle ground is having Viz force scanlators to follow their release schedule or face the threat of being shut down. As such this will allow both aspects of the fandom to experience the release in a timely fashion without the issue of spoilers.

                                      Now, I'd like to ask you on your opinion on the issue of scanlations and spoilers, and if it is available to you in your country do you still support Viz's WSJ even regardless of whether or not you read scanlations. Also what do you think would be the best compromise to pervent situations like this week's spoilerfest.

                                      If the problem is the spoilers, then how would not having scanlations help? Spoilers are always available BEFORE a scanlation is available. Even without scanlations, there's nothing stopping a store in japan from putting the issue early and someone spoiling it on the internet and the news spreading like fire. All they would have to do would be stating on twiter "omg, Sabo appeared, he's alive!". Instant spoiler without a scanlation or even a script available. And then the spoiler would just travel across the web.

                                      A good example of this are movies. As soon as a movie premiers somewhere in the world (or if there's a leak of it even before it premiers), there are spoilers of it all around the web. Having a pirated version of the movie on the web or not doesn't stop the spoilers at all.

                                      I'm sorry, but I don't think you really thought this through. Without scanlations spoilers would still exist and, much worse than that, there would be a lot less fans of One Piece and, therefore, there would be less sales of the official products regarding One Piece. It would just be bad for everyone.

                                      Y 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • M
                                        Muginiz
                                        last edited by
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                                        Muginiz
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                                        @YonkouProductions:

                                        Remember, its not that easy with a magazine like WSJ. Obviously the reason they are having it shipped 5-7 days early to retailers is because of the fact that it allows for the entire manufacturing and distribution of the magazine to occur in a timely manner so that there are no delays in the hundreds of stores that sell WSJ. If they reduced that time you'd have Apple-esque cues at every retailer and they have to avoid that,

                                        I see what you are saying and I think I agree with you on that. But then again, it is either reduce the gap or spoilers.
                                        Well, I am not familiar with the way Shueisha currently distributes the magazine, so I am not sure what to suggest.
                                        But yeah, it is the same issue with many other magazines (especially the guides) and not just WSJ. Take Newtype as an example. Its official release date is 10th of every month but it usually gets leaked on 7th (sometimes 6th). And CoroCoro Comics (official date: 15th) but the magazine shots start getting leaked from 10th/12th.

                                        I think my point is that the arrival of magazines in stores before the street date plays a huge role when it comes to the leaks (not trying to state the obvious, but yeah). So, if they can somehow reduce the gap (I am not sure how though), it might help in delaying the early leaks.

                                        Y 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Y
                                          YonkouProductions @rereboy
                                          @rereboy last edited by
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                                          YonkouProductions
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                                          @rereboy:

                                          If the problem is the spoilers, then how would not having scanlations help? Spoilers are always available BEFORE a scanlation is available. Even without scanlations, there's nothing stopping a store in japan from putting the issue early and someone spoiling it on the internet and the news spreading like fire. All they would have to do would be stating on twiter "omg, Sabo appeared, he's alive!". Instant spoiler without a scanlation or even a script available. And then the spoiler would just travel across the web.

                                          I'm sorry, but I don't think you really thought this through. Without scanlations spoilers would still exist and, much worse than that, there would be a lot less fans of One Piece and, therefore, there would be less sales of the official products regarding One Piece. It would just be bad for everyone.

                                          Look the reality is that spoilers will always exist so long as there is a print release to WSJ in Japan, but people are much more reluctant to read text spoilers than they are for scanlations since the chapter is scanned and translated as opposed to just being scripted as with text spoilers. Also, this heavily reduces the amount of spoilers floating around because there wouldn't be a leaked scan that everyone thinks is released after its street date in Japan.

                                          Scanlations legitimise the opportunity for people to spoil official readers whereas text spoilers don't provide that same level of legitimacy for every man and his dog to post spoilers all across the web. To add to that people aren't educated about how the scanlation system works, I know up until a few years ago I used to think think the Wednesday chapter releases were the official chapters that came out and it would take two days to scanlate. I wonder how many people still rationalise it that way.

                                          rereboy 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • FelRes
                                            FelRes
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                                            lol morals and ethics? What is this crap. If you're not into spoilers then wait to read an official release instead of complaining about how others enjoy reading manga and wanting things your way.

                                            Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                                            \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

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                                            Y loledinmypants incinerator 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • Y
                                              YonkouProductions @FelRes
                                              @FelRes last edited by
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                                              @FelRes:

                                              lol morals and ethics? What is this crap. If you're not into spoilers then wait to read an official release instead of complaining about how others enjoy reading manga and wanting things your way.

                                              Because its so easy to avoid spoilers for 5 days while the entire western fanbase rave about a chapter that isn't even out in Japan. I'm not asking you or anyone else to change the way they read their manga, its about what happens when people negatively impact those who support the series in both Japan and the simultaneous release because they go to Tumblr, Twitter and every other social network going "OMG Chapter 731 xxxx". Thats whats fucked up about the whole thing. The complete disregard for fans who enjoy the series via the official means.

                                              FelRes 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • loledinmypants
                                                loledinmypants @FelRes
                                                @FelRes last edited by
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                                                There'd still be chatter on social media if it was just RAWs/scripts though. Some people enjoy being spoiled. So much so there were people making spoiler threads (labeled as such) in the manga section (not the spoiler subforum) over fake summaries because the usual dude who does summaries thought this chapter was so good he couldn't spoil it for everyone. Stopping scans would only mitigate the risk of being spoiled on fansites since most treat anything short of a fully translated and typeset (whether official or not) chapter as spoilers and enforce tagging, a subforum, or so forth.

                                                And honestly with a chapter as big as this one, social media will DEFINITELY blow up with this news no matter if it's read from a script or a scan.

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                                                • FelRes
                                                  FelRes @YonkouProductions
                                                  @YonkouProductions last edited by
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                                                  @YonkouProductions:

                                                  Because its so easy to avoid spoilers for 5 days while the entire western fanbase rave about a chapter that isn't even out in Japan. I'm not asking you or anyone else to change the way they read their manga, its about what happens when people negatively impact those who support the series in both Japan and the simultaneous release because they go to Tumblr, Twitter and every other social network going "OMG Chapter 731 xxxx". Thats whats fucked up about the whole thing. The complete disregard for fans who enjoy the series via the official means.

                                                  It's easy to avoid spoilers actually. Just don't visit sites where new chapter discussion is happening, no one is forcing you to see it. Is it that hard for you to look at something else? Stop being a crybaby because others are talking about a chapter ahead of you.

                                                  Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                                                  \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

                                                  \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

                                                  Enzeru Aaronrules380 Monkey King 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                  • Enzeru
                                                    Enzeru @FelRes
                                                    @FelRes last edited by
                                                    Enzeru
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                                                    @knceng:

                                                    Sorry, i don't understand what you said…

                                                    Japan isn't that small of a country and in order to enable every reader to get WSJ on Monday, some deliveries naturally have to happen earlier. That is why it isn't possible to deliver the magazines at a later point; delays would happen and nobody would benefit from that.
                                                    @FelRes:

                                                    It's easy to avoid spoilers actually. Just don't visit sites where new chapter discussion is happening, no one is forcing you to see it. Is it that hard for you to look at something else? Stop being a crybaby because others are talking about a chapter ahead of you.

                                                    No need to act like an asshole. His points are valid and do make sense so if you can't refute them with sound arguments, you can show yourself out I'm sure.

                                                    knceng FelRes 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • knceng
                                                      knceng @Enzeru
                                                      @Enzeru last edited by
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                                                      @Enzeru:

                                                      Japan isn't that small of a country and in order to enable every reader to get WSJ on Monday, some deliveries naturally have to happen earlier. That is why it isn't possible to deliver the magazines at a later point; delays would happen and nobody would benefit from that.

                                                      No need to act like an asshole. His points are valid and do make sense so if you can't refute them with sound arguments, you can show yourself out I'm sure.

                                                      Well, the dude said the magz delivered 5-7 days early. So, instead making the official readers living under the rock for 5-7 days, why not make it 1-3 days?

                                                      Enzeru 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                      • FelRes
                                                        FelRes @Enzeru
                                                        @Enzeru last edited by
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                                                        @Enzeru:

                                                        No need to act like an asshole. His points are valid and do make sense so if you can't refute them with sound arguments, you can show yourself out I'm sure.

                                                        His points weren't valid at all. He's seriously just whining about something he dislikes that he can easily avoid. I think that's stupid, so I'm being blunt.

                                                        Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                                                        \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

                                                        \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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                                                        • Aaronrules380
                                                          Aaronrules380 @FelRes
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                                                          @FelRes:

                                                          It's easy to avoid spoilers actually. Just don't visit sites where new chapter discussion is happening, no one is forcing you to see it. Is it that hard for you to look at something else? Stop being a crybaby because others are talking about a chapter ahead of you.

                                                          TOns of people get spoiled through social media and not sites specifically dedicated to discussion of One Piece. What solution do you have for the people who have friends or people they follow who post spoilers on their facebook/twitter/other social media? The only way to guarantee avoiding spoilers through the internet I pretty much avoid the internet as a whole, or at least anything where people talk about things. And that just isn't fair or realistic

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                                                          @knceng:

                                                          Well, the dude said the magz delivered 5-7 days early. So, instead making the official readers living under the rock for 5-7 days, why not make it 1-3 days?

                                                          Because Shueisha is never going to let Viz publish chapters in America before they're out in Japan

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                                                          • incinerator
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                                                            All I have really taken away from this thread is that a moderator at Reddit wants to do away with spoilers because Sabo made a very hard day of work for him. I'm sorry you're collateral damage from the SHEER EXCITEMENT that is One Piece spoilers, and that you have to toil away because so many fans are happy and can't keep their mouth shut about how awesome One Piece is. The solution? Shut down everything!

                                                            Moderating is volunteer work - if it's too much for you, just quit. Someone else will step up and handle things. Let's not change the system because you're tired.

                                                            Yeah, it's pretty uncool to blurt those things out on highly visible social media like Twitter. Some people have major problems with spoilers. I understand it's matter of personal preference, but if someone is that mortally afraid of being spoiled, they have the option to not read a One Piece forum on spoiler day! I have been a One Piece fan for a decade and I fully appreciate spoilers. It does not diminish my enjoyment in the least, in fact it increases my excitement. I savor every panel of every chapter over and over again, week after week, year after year - knowing some plot points a day early is just a tease that fills more of the week with One Piece.

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                                                            • Enzeru
                                                              Enzeru @knceng
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                                                              @knceng:

                                                              Well, the dude said the magz delivered 5-7 days early. So, instead making the official readers living under the rock for 5-7 days, why not make it 1-3 days?

                                                              I don't think we're on the same page here. The magazines have to be delivered earlier to some parts of the country in order to be ready on release day (usually Monday). If they were delivered later, they might not make it and the magazines wouldn't be there on a Monday. It's not that hard to understand is it?

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                                                                So, let me get this straight: You want to tell an entire branch is semi-legal operational groups to drop scans and advertise a complete change of the distribution model of the biggest magazine on that area in Japan just because 90% of the people are - like usual - dumb and post spoilers? Well, good luck with that.
                                                                Movies get leaked, maniscripts get leaked, even football tactics from national teams get leaked. It's always bothersome, always unjust and always not the right way. But do you know what: Most people ignore this. Your engagement is honourable, but ultimately pointless and futile as it ignores basic human nature. When Tarantino's scripts for movies got leaked only the people who really wanted to spoil themselves read it, when you - as a fan - don't want to be spoiled you should probably not visit the parts of the forum that are known to be always up-to-date and attract spoilers. I could go on GRRM's blog and get at least 10 chapters from "The Winds of Winter", which would spoiler an awful lot about certain characters. A lot of the people already work with these spoilers, assuming everyone knows them. A lot of it is already incorporated in big theories about ASOIAF. But usually, this happens in forums where people know they'll spoilered once they enter (most of the time there are even spoiler warnings). I would also never trust anything I read on social media sites because damn, this is the toilet dumb of the internet where trivialities and false information reign supreme.

                                                                I'd just suggest these people to not read forums that deal with recent Japanese manga chapters. Usually official homepages, etc. have places where you can discuss the latest volume/released chapters via official channels. Or anime-boards. Or boards where people know spoielrs are not tolerated.
                                                                And frankly: The people reading Youtube comments deserve it simply for reading Youtube comments.

                                                                If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - _Sun Tzu, The Art Of War

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                                                                • Enzeru
                                                                  Enzeru @Aaronrules380
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                                                                  @Aaronrules380:

                                                                  TOns of people get spoiled through social media and not sites specifically dedicated to discussion of One Piece. What solution do you have for the people who have friends or people they follow who post spoilers on their facebook/twitter/other social media? The only way to guarantee avoiding spoilers through the internet I pretty much avoid the internet as a whole, or at least anything where people talk about things. And that just isn't fair or realistic

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                                                                  Because Shueisha is never going to let Viz publish chapters in America before they're out in Japan

                                                                  Oh he's talking about Viz? I thought he meant Japanese warehouses… never mind then. And also what you said to both topics.

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                                                                    knceng @Aaronrules380
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                                                                    @Aaronrules380:

                                                                    Because Shueisha is never going to let Viz publish chapters in America before they're out in Japan

                                                                    It's just the system's issue. Viz can't publish the chapter if there's no RAW from Shueisha. And I'm sure all the RAW in internet isn't come from Viz.

                                                                    @Enzeru:

                                                                    I don't think we're on the same page here. The magazines have to be delivered earlier to some parts of the country in order to be ready on release day (usually Monday). If they were delivered later, they might not make it and the magazines wouldn't be there on a Monday. It's not that hard to understand is it?

                                                                    The main source of the spoiler/RAW come from the store, the book's there for 5-7 days before the official release date. Or are you saying that the spoiler/RAW came from the delivery service?

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                                                                    • FelRes
                                                                      FelRes @Aaronrules380
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                                                                      @Aaronrules380:

                                                                      TOns of people get spoiled through social media and not sites specifically dedicated to discussion of One Piece. What solution do you have for the people who have friends or people they follow who post spoilers on their facebook/twitter/other social media? The only way to guarantee avoiding spoilers through the internet I pretty much avoid the internet as a whole, or at least anything where people talk about things. And that just isn't fair or realistic

                                                                      Why do people even do this? Block those people or whatever if you don't want spoilers. And you don't have to avoid the internet as a whole unless you only visit social media and sites related to One Piece or manga. I find it easy enough to avoid spoilers for huge things though, so really, tough nuts if you can't adapt to this kinda stuff.

                                                                      Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                                                                      \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

                                                                      \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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                                                                      • rereboy
                                                                        rereboy @YonkouProductions
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                                                                        @YonkouProductions:

                                                                        Look the reality is that spoilers will always exist so long as there is a print release to WSJ in Japan, but people are much more reluctant to read text spoilers than they are for scanlations since the chapter is scanned and translated as opposed to just being scripted as with text spoilers. Also, this heavily reduces the amount of spoilers floating around because there wouldn't be a leaked scan that everyone thinks is released after its street date in Japan.

                                                                        Scanlations legitimise the opportunity for people to spoil official readers whereas text spoilers don't provide that same level of legitimacy for every man and his dog to post spoilers all across the web. To add to that people aren't educated about how the scanlation system works, I know up until a few years ago I used to think think the Wednesday chapter releases were the official chapters that came out and it would take two days to scanlate. I wonder how many people still rationalise it that way.

                                                                        That makes no sense. People who actively read scanlations or scripts WANT to know what happened in the chapter, they want the spoilers. People who don't want spoilers don't read them.

                                                                        Therefore, the only legitimate problem with spoilers are the fans who don't want to know the spoilers, and are still spoiled because someone talked about them on the web or in person.

                                                                        Therefore, without scanlations, people would still get spoiled by those who want to know the spoilers and then talk about them afterwards.

                                                                        I disagree that without scanlation the number of spoilers would decrease. There is way more than enough interest in spoilers for constant fake and true spoilers around the web and a pretty big following of those spoilers even without scanlations. And many of the people involved in that talk about them everywhere. It would hardly make a difference.

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                                                                        • Aaronrules380
                                                                          Aaronrules380 @knceng
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                                                                          @knceng:

                                                                          It's just the system's issue. Viz can't publish the chapter if there's no RAW from Shueisha. And I'm sure all the RAW in internet isn't come from Viz.

                                                                          If you're talking about Shueisha, then it's already been explained why that's impossible

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                                                                          @FelRes:

                                                                          Why do people even do this? Block those people or whatever if you don't want spoilers. And you don't have to avoid the internet as a whole unless you only visit social media and sites related to One Piece or manga. I find it easy enough to avoid spoilers for huge things though, so really, tough nuts if you can't adapt to this kinda stuff.

                                                                          Because those people might be their friends? Because they might not usually spoil stuff? Because they like other stuff those people post? Here's an example: RolloT of the that guy with the glasses Weekly Manga Recap Podcast got spoiled for the latest chapter by a friend who didn't realize he was now reading the official release. Also, many people don't even realize the official release comes after the scanlations. A lot of people are just ignorant. I do think scanlations provoke spoilers more than spoiler threads do, but because a huge part of the people involved don't see scanlations as spoilers. Most people know not to share stuff from a spoiler thread outside that thread, but scanlations have become the norm to an extent where people don't see an issue sharing stuff from them

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                                                                            @Aaronrules380:

                                                                            Because those people might be their friends? Because they might not usually spoil stuff? Because they like other stuff those people post? Here's an example: RolloT of the that guy with the glasses Weekly Manga Recap Podcast got spoiled for the latest chapter by a friend who didn't realize he was now reading the official release. Also, many people don't even realize the official release comes after the scanlations. A lot of people are just ignorant. I do think scanlations provoke spoilers more than spoiler threads do, but because a huge part of the people involved don't see scanlations as spoilers. Most people know not to share stuff from a spoiler thread outside that thread, but scanlations have become the norm to an extent where people don't see an issue sharing stuff from them

                                                                            What crappy friends. That podcast thing is an understandable spoil though, no one's to blame there. Scanlations are indeed the norm, that's how it works for manga on the internet since that's how most people read it. You can't change how that works. Therefor, you have to change your behavior so you can avoid whatever you consider spoilers and act according to that. I avoid a bunch of communities and stuff when Bioshock Infinite and other video game releases come out and I can't get them day one where spoilers are gonna be flying all over the place, and avoid places that talk about Japanese games I'm waiting for to be localized because I'd like to learn what happens myself. I think you can manage avoiding a damn chapter.

                                                                            Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

                                                                            \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

                                                                            \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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                                                                              YonkouProductions @incinerator
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                                                                              @incinerator:

                                                                              All I have really taken away from this thread is that a moderator at Reddit wants to do away with spoilers because Sabo made a very hard day of work for him. I'm sorry you're collateral damage from the SHEER EXCITEMENT that is One Piece spoilers, and that you have to toil away because so many fans are happy and can't keep their mouth shut about how awesome One Piece is. The solution? Shut down everything!

                                                                              Moderating is volunteer work - if it's too much for you, just quit. Someone else will step up and handle things. Let's not change the system because you're tired.

                                                                              Yeah, it's pretty uncool to blurt those things out on highly visible social media like Twitter. Some people have major problems with spoilers. I understand it's matter of personal preference, but if someone is that mortally afraid of being spoiled, they have the option to not read a One Piece forum on spoiler day! I have been a One Piece fan for a decade and I fully appreciate spoilers. It does not diminish my enjoyment in the least, in fact it increases my excitement. I savor every panel of every chapter over and over again, week after week, year after year - knowing some plot points a day early is just a tease that fills more of the week with One Piece.

                                                                              Wow, thats all you got out of it? Out of all the points I mention that was what stood out to you? Look I'm not here to act like I'm on a self-righteous cause that is meant to stop everyone from fangasming over a chapter. All I meant to provide with that example was a metric for you all to understand impact of spoilers and how they can affect legitimate readers. I do what I do on reddit because I'm a fan of One Piece and I legitimately love the show. All it boils down to is being considerate of other fans who do enjoy the same series as you, but to have a chapter being circulated week after week before the release date and people acting like these scanlation sites legitimise spoiling everyone on the internet, it really makes me think of how right it is for a segment of fans to do this to another segment of fans.

                                                                              We can bitch about how messed the system is, the business model is, the simultaneous release is but at the end of the day it all comes down to fans to prevent shit like

                                                                              happening all over the internet where even the Japanese fans are being spoilt, so if we can't remain vigilant for others then we sure are damned.

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                                                                              • Aaronrules380
                                                                                Aaronrules380 @FelRes
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                                                                                @FelRes:

                                                                                What crappy friends. That podcast thing is an understandable spoil though, no one's to blame there. Scanlations are indeed the norm, that's how it works for manga on the internet since that's how most people read it. You can't change how that works. Therefor, you have to change your behavior so you can avoid whatever you consider spoilers and act according to that. I avoid a bunch of communities and stuff when Bioshock Infinite and other video game releases come out and I can't get them day one where spoilers are gonna be flying all over the place, and avoid places that talk about Japanese games I'm waiting for to be localized because I'd like to learn what happens myself. I think you can manage avoiding a damn chapter.

                                                                                BUt we're saying that the fact that things are the way they are is an issue. The fact that it'd be very difficult to change it doesn't change the fact that it's a problem. Also, you have a really shitty idea of what friendship is if your idea of a what good friend is revolves around whether or not they spoil manga chapters ever

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                                                                                  YonkouProductions @Muginiz
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                                                                                  @Muginiz:

                                                                                  I see what you are saying and I think I agree with you on that. But then again, it is either reduce the gap or spoilers.
                                                                                  Well, I am not familiar with the way Shueisha currently distributes the magazine, so I am not sure what to suggest.
                                                                                  But yeah, it is the same issue with many other magazines (especially the guides) and not just WSJ. Take Newtype as an example. Its official release date is 10th of every month but it usually gets leaked on 7th (sometimes 6th). And CoroCoro Comics (official date: 15th) but the magazine shots start getting leaked from 10th/12th.

                                                                                  I think my point is that the arrival of magazines in stores before the street date plays a huge role when it comes to the leaks (not trying to state the obvious, but yeah). So, if they can somehow reduce the gap (I am not sure how though), it might help in delaying the early leaks.

                                                                                  You've noticed the same thing with other magazines but with the huge circulation of WSJ in Japan the leak time is way greater than those magazine. I agree with you that it plays a huge role (and we can't expect WSJ to go all digital in Japan tomorrow) but you have fans that tweet to authors (e.g Kubo and Mashima) about events in the manga that the Japanese don't even know about which clearly shows a complete misunderstanding in how the scanlation industry works. There is a lack of education and a prevelance of ignorance where fans don't care whether or not a scanlation is leaked or when the official release date is for the magazine. How many people would you think even know when the exact release day is for Weekly Shonen Jump? I'd say a rather minuscule amount of the community.

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                                                                                  • FelRes
                                                                                    FelRes @Aaronrules380
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                                                                                    @Aaronrules380:

                                                                                    BUt we're saying that the fact that things are the way they are is an issue. The fact that it'd be very difficult to change it doesn't change the fact that it's a problem.

                                                                                    It is not gonna change no matter what you do. These days you have individual people outside of scanlation groups willing to translate stuff. You'd have to find a way to keep the scans from being made in the first place.

                                                                                    Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

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                                                                                    \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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                                                                                    • incinerator
                                                                                      incinerator @YonkouProductions
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                                                                                      @YonkouProductions:

                                                                                      Wow, thats all you got out of it? Out of all the points I mention that was what stood out to you?

                                                                                      That's all I got out of it because that's the only new revelation you brought us. Nothing about this situation is unfamiliar. Spoilers are an ages-old problem that affects way more media than just One Piece. Yeah, we can sit here and whine about it, and flog the dead horse a little more if you want to vent your frustration.

                                                                                      Hope you weren't moderating any One Piece forums when Ace died.

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                                                                                        YonkouProductions @Nidhoeggr
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                                                                                        @Nidhoeggr:

                                                                                        So, let me get this straight: You want to tell an entire branch is semi-legal operational groups to drop scans and advertise a complete change of the distribution model of the biggest magazine on that area in Japan just because 90% of the people are - like usual - dumb and post spoilers? Well, good luck with that.
                                                                                        Movies get leaked, maniscripts get leaked, even football tactics from national teams get leaked. It's always bothersome, always unjust and always not the right way. But do you know what: Most people ignore this. Your engagement is honourable, but ultimately pointless and futile as it ignores basic human nature. When Tarantino's scripts for movies got leaked only the people who really wanted to spoil themselves read it, when you - as a fan - don't want to be spoiled you should probably not visit the parts of the forum that are known to be always up-to-date and attract spoilers. I could go on GRRM's blog and get at least 10 chapters from "The Winds of Winter", which would spoiler an awful lot about certain characters. A lot of the people already work with these spoilers, assuming everyone knows them. A lot of it is already incorporated in big theories about ASOIAF. But usually, this happens in forums where people know they'll spoilered once they enter (most of the time there are even spoiler warnings). I would also never trust anything I read on social media sites because damn, this is the toilet dumb of the internet where trivialities and false information reign supreme.

                                                                                        I'd just suggest these people to not read forums that deal with recent Japanese manga chapters. Usually official homepages, etc. have places where you can discuss the latest volume/released chapters via official channels. Or anime-boards. Or boards where people know spoielrs are not tolerated.
                                                                                        And frankly: The people reading Youtube comments deserve it simply for reading Youtube comments.

                                                                                        I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone. Simply put what solution do you see to the issue of scanlations and spoilers. I'm not dumb enough to think the internet can be controlled, but there are other aspects that can influence how we interact and access chapters. I'm not here to attack those who read scanlations or to support Shueisha when they clearly have issues as well. I'm trying to look at it in a rational manner that is objective and I asked for input. There needs to be change in the mindset of both Shueisha, Viz, Scanlators and those who read scanlations. Each party has a significant blame and contributed to the mess that we are in now. But without doing everything we can to avoid spoilers and educating people about scanlations nothing will change.

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                                                                                          Well, this is awkward!

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                                                                                            @Maju:

                                                                                            well i managed to avoid any spoiler.

                                                                                            To be fair, for us reading scanlations is much easier. The spoilers are out usually 1 day before the scanlations (some weeks ago, just a few hours before). It's really easy to avoid spoilers for one day.

                                                                                            For the japanese people, the spoilers are out 6 days before they can buy the magazine. And one day after they buy it, the spoilers for the next chapter are out already. If they are going to avoid OP sites, twitter, etc. in order to avoid spoilers they will only be able to use those websites one day a week (only on mondays).

                                                                                            But then again, the scanlations are not the one to blame. The spoilers come before the scanlators and even without mangapanda/mangastream, raws come out and that spoil everything for the japanese as well.

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                                                                                              I used t belive that scans come after official release. And even now it is kind of strange for me to consder it as spoiler.

                                                                                              Can't scan team just post the chapter the wednesday following the official realease?

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                                                                                              I used t belive that scans come after official release. And even now it is kind of strange for me to consder it as spoiler.

                                                                                              Can't scan team just post the chapter the wednesday following the official realease?

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                                                                                                @desa:

                                                                                                I used t belive that scans come after official release. And even now it is kind of strange for me to consder it as spoiler.

                                                                                                Can't scan team just post the chapter the wednesday following the official realease?

                                                                                                –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                                I used t belive that scans come after official release. And even now it is kind of strange for me to consder it as spoiler.

                                                                                                Can't scan team just post the chapter the wednesday following the official realease?

                                                                                                You think sites like mangapanda would miss out on all those pageviews?

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                                                                                                  I think this might be a problem that solves itself with time if WSJ is willing to make the transition to digital, with the printed version becoming a collectors item. If it's digital it can be up when it's ready. You can make a slow transition with making a subscription app platform exclusive(kindle,iOS,etc).
                                                                                                  I don't think there is any other solution. Concealing information in this day and age takes a lot of conscious effort/money. It's just not feasible to have a tight grip on everyone involved in the distribution of the printed version.

                                                                                                  The future I'm waiting for is an online WSJ subscription where you can put together all the series you'd like to read in the language you'd like to read them, also worldwide release parity.
                                                                                                  Price will adapt to the number of series and the number of languages you subscribe to.
                                                                                                  Practically offering convenience and quality.

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                                                                                                    i never care about spoiler or not, knowing about something before reading/watching something didn't effect me at all but based on my own experience, i have a friend who hates spoiler and he only read a volume released. so what he do so that he will not spoiled? he didn't go to a place where he can be spoiled..
                                                                                                    that is the simplest and safest way for him. we respect that for him and he didn't go to us and make us stop reading online and we didn't spoiled thing for him.. when it time comes we'll discuss it just the same.

                                                                                                    one of the thing, what APF did by separating WSJ online released thread with scanlation released is good i think.

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                                                                                                      Kirk @Hisoga
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                                                                                                      Yet another stupid thread. And who cares of Reddit?

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                                                                                                        spiral

                                                                                                        @YonkouProductions:

                                                                                                        I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone. Simply put what solution do you see to the issue of scanlations and spoilers. I'm not dumb enough to think the internet can be controlled, but there are other aspects that can influence how we interact and access chapters. I'm not here to attack those who read scanlations or to support Shueisha when they clearly have issues as well. I'm trying to look at it in a rational manner that is objective and I asked for input. There needs to be change in the mindset of both Shueisha, Viz, Scanlators and those who read scanlations. Each party has a significant blame and contributed to the mess that we are in now. But without doing everything we can to avoid spoilers and educating people about scanlations nothing will change.

                                                                                                        see, i cant really agree with that. first off, i don´t think the scanlators are to blame at all. personally, i think they deserve praise for helping people like me who don´t have the possibility of reading one piece, outside of buying the volumes when they finally come out, to get their weekly dose of this awesome manga.
                                                                                                        neither can you blame all of the scanlation reading community per se, because, as you say, most aren´t educated in the ways manga publishing works. they just take what is available to them on the internet, the same way i´m sure most of us were introduced to scanlations.
                                                                                                        Now, trying to educate them about the release discrepancies is certainly a noble effort but won´t stop the people who spoil just for the fun of it; see also: ANY HIGHLY ANTICIPATED PUBLICATION SINCE THE INTERNET

                                                                                                        Regarding Shueisha and Viz, i´m sure they see scanlation as a problem, but i don´t think they care much about people getting spoiled. Especially since spoilers and early versions often increase public interest in all kinds of works. And surely, they aren´t to BLAME for any spoilers getting out. i mean, remember harry potter? the details are kinda hazy in my memory, but back then there were stories of people breaking into warehouses to get their hands on the newest book. I mean, talk about dedication….

                                                                                                        But anyways, you said you wished for ideas for a solution to this problem, so here we go:
                                                                                                        Some here suggested to get "better friends" so you don´t get spoiled. while that holds true in some cases, its certainly not a solution.
                                                                                                        but it can be a start: naturally, this issue creeps up mostly on big reveal chapters. so how about people who read the scanlation tell/warn their friends (including social media "friends") that they should probably stay away from one piece related outlets for the week, as i´m sure many did during the whole "red wedding" thing...

                                                                                                        thats sadly the best i could come up with on the spot...there is of course another way of approach that just might work: how about the people who feel they need to be immersed in social media regarding all their hobbies and interests get with the program and start reading scanlations, then buy the magazine when it comes out so they can experience it again in an environment they are more comfortable with...

                                                                                                        just a modest proposal...

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