@biceps2point0:
He said that they (the Roger Pirates) might have wrongly interpreted its meaning and Robin would more likely to come to a diffirent conclusion than their's => This indicates that his knowledge of the true history is questionable.
No, that is NOT what he says. He implies that they were amateurs who don't have the full scholarly wisdom of say Clover. That's as negative as he comes down on the Roger crew.
It's not even about this debate you think we're having though. You think Oda would for no reason whatsoever write in lines where Roger's crew suggests grayness, but then suggests they don't know anything. Literally within the same conversation introducing new doubts at the exact nature of the secret, then discrediting themselves.
That makes no fucking sense. Why would Oda write the doubts in the first place? Your interpretation relies entirely on a complete nonsense conversation.
This is why you people fail time and time again. Your complete lack of any narrative knowledge, you very simply don't look at the series as a work of fiction with choices being made by an author. It's like you think it's ok for that line to exist because it doesn't need to have author intent. Like it's real life or something lol.
And your reason for this is ?
Because that's exactly their conversation hotshot.
Spandam: LETS GET BLUEPRINT TO END PIRATE AGE AND MAKE WEAPON
Gorusei: Yeah whatever dude, how about you get the blueprint, and we can talk later.
Back in Water 7 (and even before that) the WG was trying to steal the blueprint so they could make the weapon to end the "pirate era"
NO.THEY.WERE.NOT.
Spandam is the only one hawking this idea, the Gorusei never agrees to it. Spandam =/= WG. Read the series.
What about SHIRAHOSHI, she has finally "woken up" her ability as an acient weapon. If Shirahoshi could be woken up before the "Real Poneglyph on Raftel" then there is no reason to belive that the other 2 weapons can't be too.
Knowing the sea monsters can talk to you =/= knowing you're an ancient death weapon with X destiny with X purpose.
All that equals is a preview of her potential, not an awakening by ANY sense. We didn't even know what was going on until the after party when Robin confronted Neptune.
And AGAIN, you have zero narrative sense to not understand what the problem is.
Don't even respond to me until you learn to think like an author.
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@warismydestiny:
Did I fucking say that. I said it doesnt necessarily have to be akainu but some force representing the wg i was thinking maybe the wg gets there hand on one of the ancient weapons but leave it to monkey king to come up with a straw man
You're saying it makes more sense for the final villain to be pulled out of nowhere, instead of say, the guy built up since the middle of the first act. And you don't understand that this is both really dumb, and would be really horrible storytelling.
Or are you not even saying there's a specific final villain? That would be even stupider.
And you dismissed the Gorusei outright, so the only name you even suggest is Akainu who would be a terrible choice of final villain.
Bad ideas everywhere. No matter where you turn.
again thats not even what i said its something you just pulled out of your ass even when fujitora was introduced i thought it was kind of an asspull to introduce an admiral level character 700 chapters in that wasnt even hinted at before
It's an asspull to have the Marines fill in missing positions? Fujitora and Green Bull aren't asspulls because their roles are not on the level of the biggest antagonist in the series. Which is what a final villain would be. Which requires structural planning and set up to be good, thus why a final villain out of nowhere would be an asspull.
ofcourse they will and it will have nothing to do with blackbeard
The guy set up as Luffy's foil, won't be involved in Luffy's destiny. Yeah that makes sense. Not.
he will surpass roger he will find out what happened in the void century and he will do what roger couldnt because of his illness plus in typical monkey king fashion you didnt even addres my point the worst thing that can happen to a character in op is having his dreams crushed blackbeard wants to become pk, either he will do it or luffy will one of them is having there dreams crushed there would be no point in the fight if it happened after luffy became pk
Blackbeard wants to conquer the world.
Explain to me how another guy getting to Raftel first ruins that. Also explain to me how someone else being Pirate King at some point means one can't be Pirate King.
By your logic Luffy's dream is ruined because of Gold Roger existing.
Blackbeard has not laid out his full ambition, end discussion.
authority the antithesis of freedom
Authority stands in the way of freedom, then it falls after revolution.
Ok.
So I know you're a simpleton and probably haven't studied history, or even watched recent news about the revolutions in the Arab World.
Do you know what happens after the old authority falls? Do you think that's it? Really?
Or maybe maybe maybe what's way more important and decisive than toppling the old order, is the fight over who gets to define the freedom and the new era?
You can topple the king, but then Napoleon takes over.
You can topple the czar, but then the Bolsheviks take over.
You can topple the Soviet Union, but then the mafia and robber barons take over.
The World Government as we know it WILL fall in the finale. I doubt anyone disagrees with that, along with Akainu's faction of the Marines.
But the real battle, what really matters, is the fight over the new era.
And that duel is between nobody but the Strawhats and the Blackbeards.
Good freedom vs. evil freedom.
yeah because the wg has always been built up as this neutral organization right they havnt ever done anything morally questionable at all right
I think I've said "Neutral Villain" like 800 times in this thread, but leave it to you to become temporarily blind every time you get past reading the "Neutral".
They are neutral in the sense that they are a stagnative conservative status quo obsessed force. They don't have an agenda aside from status quo.
These are people SO obsessed with status quo that they worry about their worst enemies falling, because it might change the world power balance and introduce change into the world order.
You're saying the clash of values in the end would be between Luffy's freedom and nothing at all. As opposed to Luffy fighting ANOTHER idealist in Blackbeard.
would you like a cookie
You of course wouldn't worry that maybe the person who saw that logic years before it was official is dismissing it as a point in your favor.
cd's are some of the highest figures of the wg descendants or the creators themselves they are a representation of the wg and its evils
Hmm, lemme check this here pristine Viz translation of Volume 25 I just got earlier this year. Lesse, the Gorusei are described in their introduction box as….oh my! "Supreme" rulers of the World Government! Well well!
Also I wonder if any other authoritarian systems founded on pragmatic principles ever became obscenely corrupt over the years? Probably not.
The CD are rotting fruits on the tree of the WG, they are not the idea of the WG itself.
and goa kingdom was the wg at the micro level the
Ok, then so was Alabasta. Wow, the WG sure are good people!
Wait this logic makes no sense!
what you think there will be conflict between luffy and dragon?
Duh.
i always thought blackbeard represented chaos myself and if you do think blackbeard represents freedom would it make more sense for the final villian to represent the exact same ideals as luffy or something that wants to squash those ideals like akainu does
Wait what?? You say Blacbeard represtnts chaos, and then says he reprents the same thing Luffy does? Luffy doesn't represent chaos.
Akainu is a fucking muscleman action figure on puppet strings, whose only connection to Luffy is a revenge plot that has nothing to do with the central conflict of the series,he's not the fucking final villain.
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@RobZilla:
Well at the end of the day, they're on opposite sides. It'll be a Fox and the Hound kind of scenario if you get what I mean.
You talk like the world order after the end would be the same as before.