I guess I'm one of the few people who actually believe Sanji will beat Vergo. The guy didn't train for two years for no reason!
Smoker will arrest Vergo and nothing more. That will be enough.
I guess I'm one of the few people who actually believe Sanji will beat Vergo. The guy didn't train for two years for no reason!
Smoker will arrest Vergo and nothing more. That will be enough.
I was so sure that as soon as Sanji appeared to fight Vergo hate would be going against him. So no surprises here.
Frankly, I'll be hoping Sanji gets his serious one-on-one with Vergo and emerges victorious. Out of the monster trio he's the one that gets consistently overshadowed and even in FI he shared a fight with Jinbe. If we are to believe he is at the level of Luffy, Zoro, and above Jinbe, I don't see why he would lose this fight if it is straightforward.
If Oda really wanted to intervene in this fight so that Smoker gets his satisfaction, I see it happening more in the way of Shinokuni interfering in the fight. But if Sanji loses all that means is that the character will just keep getting overshadowed and overlooked, and that's just a shame considering his supposed power level.
I hope in next week's chapter we get to see more of Sanji and Vergo, and also see where Chopper is.
Sanji vs. a guy who beats up on women and wastes food? Yeah, can't see Sanji going down on that one.
@Galaxy:
I guess I'm one of the few people who actually believe Sanji will beat Vergo. The guy didn't train for two years for no reason!
Smoker will arrest Vergo and nothing more. That will be enough.
I'm with you all the way :)
Do you know what is a Raw, right? Then, here's the raw of ch.673, where Oda give us the right translitteration of Vergo's name:
http://t.imgbox.com/aaqBcAEJ.jpg"VA" stay for "Vice Admiral" Vergo.
This. It's not a matter of opinion or interpretation.
We should have been so lucky during the years before knowing "Moriah," "Jinbe," and "Shiliew."
I still can't believe it's Shiliew and not Shiryuu. That's the only romanization that really gets to me.
Anyway, I think Shinokuni will intervene, giving Sanji time to shine and a graceful way out while letting Smoker kick ass later.
@400MillionBelis:
And finally, Rokushiki from people that aren't CP9 or Straw Hat.
What about Coby and the Vice Admirals at Marineford?
^Yeah, somehow people kept missing those. I bet most if not all of the higher-ups starting from the Vice Admiral rank are masters of the martial art. Coby and Helmeppo're probably the only special case we've seen so far considering they've trained under Garp.
"I heard a maiden crying out for help." Really? This is no different than the nosebleeds and is exactly the reason why I despise Sanji's character. It's bad enough that Tashigi got knocked aside so badly (it was Vergo, though, so that could hardly be helped), but then here comes "Mr. Chivalry" to help the poor, defenseless woman! Fuck that shit. Seriously, Oda, you're better than this.
I hope Sanji gets stomped, and not just because I don't like him, but because him beating Vergo serves no purpose other than fanservice. In order for Vergo's defeat to be truly satisfying and have any kind of merit, it needs to be at the hands of those he was manipulating all this time—G-5, i.e., Smoker.
And to any Sanji fans who may feel the need to reply to this post and proclaim it "worst post evar!1!", I'll give you my reply in advance—I don't care…
I was going to post something like this before I noticed all the Sanji love, so I decided to keep my mouth shut, but when I came to this part in the chapter, I flipped the fuck out (on the inside). And maybe I groaned and rolled my eyes. Because you're right, Oda SHOULD be better than this shit, but sadly, it isn't the first time he's done something like this.
On the OTHER hand, even Oda must realize that having Sanji in this situation makes little sense, considering that Vergo is built entirely around his relationships with Smoker, Tashigi and Law. I don't think that we'll have seen the last of Vergo after this confrontation with Sanji.
@Galaxy:
I guess I'm one of the few people who actually believe Sanji will beat Vergo. The guy didn't train for two years for no reason!
Smoker will arrest Vergo and nothing more. That will be enough.
Didn't stop Luffy from being defeated by Caesar, dit it?
Seriously, that excuse of "he didn't train during 2 years for nothing" is just nonsensical.
Didn't stop Luffy from being defeated by Caesar, dit it?
Seriously, that excuse of "he didn't train during 2 years for nothing" is just nonsensical.
Doesn't matter. Caesar took away the oxygen. You cannot train to withstand that.
Vergo has done nothing more than defeat a person by squeezing his heart. Sanji won't lose (Shinokuni might interfere, but that is it).
monet is still there, so smoker can fight her.
So let me guess this …
Woman asks for help, someone comes to help, and that person is awesome.
Woman asks for help, Sanji comes, and he's a bastard.
That's what I'm getting. If you want to complain about Oda making female characters weak then be consistent about it. Why did Luffy have to save Nami again earlier this arc? It's a valid question and concern and I can respect it.
But when it's so clearly simply just pure hatred against Sanji because he's up and front about wanting to defend woman, I simply can't understand it. Yes, the nosebleeds were annoying. The heart eyes can get annoying. But defending a woman who was getting beat up and who wanted help … come on, in no universe should that be wrong.
There was a chivalry thread already. Why bring in all that stupid arguing about it to here?
@Galaxy:
Doesn't matter. Caesar took away the oxygen. You cannot train to withstand that.
Vergo has done nothing more than defeat a person by squeezing his heart. Sanji won't lose (Shinokuni might interfere, but that is it).
No, King Cannon is right. 2 years training means absolutely nothing. It doesn't matter if CC can manipulate oxygen. It's just one example of the new world villains being more competant than prior foes. The same applies to Vergo. He doesn't show any fear around CC and even straight up insults CC. This most likely means that in terms of fighting strength, Vergo is pretty confident that he'd be able to take on CC (whereas the danger from CC is more from his utility, rather than fighting strength).
Sanji is already partially handicapped with previous injuries, not to mention both Law and Smoker already have their sights set on Vergo (as opposed to Sanji's flippant interference). Law needs his heart and Smoker carries a personal vendetta. Add in the impending gas leak by CC, and odds are set heavily against Sanji actually completing the fight. Yeah he may not lose, but he certainly has a high chance of being interrupted.
So let me guess this …
Woman asks for help, someone comes to help, and that person is awesome.
Woman asks for help, Sanji comes, and he's a bastard.
That's what I'm getting. If you want to complain about Oda making female characters weak then be consistent about it. Why did Luffy have to save Nami again earlier this arc? It's a valid question and concern and I can respect it.
It actually sucks every time it happens. Arlong Park, for example. But even you have to admit that Sanji does it more often than any other Straw Hat. It's part of his "character" to be "chivalrous". It's no surprise that he bears the brunt of the hate when Oda purposefully writes him this way, but I do agree that sexism is inherent within the manga, and it's more upsetting that Tashigi is crying for a man's help at all, whether or not his name is Sanji.
people have to note that vergo isn't any average vice admiral, he's a vice admiral who's in charge of G-5 base, the toughest section of the new world, he's the boss of smoker who's a vice admiral and possibly many other vice admirals, smoker isn't going to be your average VA either, it's pretty much been shown the luffy is shichibukai level already, and possibly sanji and zoro too! (the sanji jinbei team up lead many to believe this) anyone who's still luffy's rival of equal standards (not like buggy who's more comedic or coby who's goal is luffy) will be extraordinarily strong, smoker no doubt will be stronger then your normal VA, the fact that he fought toe to toe with law and is luffy's main marine rival should prove that, and if vergo is smokers level then he's no ordinary brawler either, my guess are him and smoker are the elites of the VA's, they already said they were the elites of the G-5, but we don't have any other confirmed VA's in G-5 right now so I can't say I'm 100%….. basically vergo's tough shit who has smoker worried and sanji's injured, it should be a good fight
So let me guess this …
Woman asks for help, someone comes to help, and that person is awesome.
Woman asks for help, Sanji comes, and he's a bastard.
That's what I'm getting. If you want to complain about Oda making female characters weak then be consistent about it. Why did Luffy have to save Nami again earlier this arc? It's a valid question and concern and I can respect it.
But when it's so clearly simply just pure hatred against Sanji because he's up and front about wanting to defend woman, I simply can't understand it. Yes, the nosebleeds were annoying. The heart eyes can get annoying. But defending a woman who was getting beat up and who wanted help … come on, in no universe should that be wrong.
Spot the difference:
!
[lying]I don't know if my eternal hate for Sanji's characterization during Thriller Bark to Fishman Island is obvious[/lying], but despite that, I find it ridiculous that people find what happened during this chapter ANYTHING LIKE the nosebleed.
It's good old Sanji, and that's why this is awesome.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Sanji to win and show off more of his skills and to kick the hell out of Vergo. At first I hated Vergo, but some of his quirks have grown on me; however, I want to see that relatively, ever-calm demeanor get smashed a few more times…hell, we may even get an Enel 4.0. XD I know Sanji is fighting with a handicap this time around (being thrased while Nami was in his body), but Sanji has shown great resilience to damage. The guy took a full-body onslaught all over his body by Absalom and got stabbed through the heart, and he was still good to go with the Oars fight. He helped knock Oars down, diverted attacks from Oars, and continually launched crewmates at Oars.
Sanji is already partially handicapped with previous injuries, not to mention both Law and Smoker already have their sights set on Vergo (as opposed to Sanji's flippant interference). Law needs his heart and Smoker carries a personal vendetta. Add in the impending gas leak by CC, and odds are set heavily against Sanji actually completing the fight. Yeah he may not lose, but he certainly has a high chance of being interrupted.
Yeah, I see Sanji fighting on par with Vergo for a while before the gas is released, causing both Sanji and Vergo to flee the corridor.
Maybe by then, Smoker will appear and take on Vergo with or without Sanji.
@400MillionBelis:
Spot the difference:
! http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/11/09/o/read4eba7b5cebfe5/One_Piece_v10_033.png
http://i998.mangapanda.com/one-piece/680/one-piece-3571913.jpg
Sanji protects his captain and women alike. Yeah.
the thing that vergo does, do you guys think it's the same thing luffy does, I always thought that was some haki trick Rayleigh had taught him, being called the "Dark King" and all
I was going to post something like this before I noticed all the Sanji love, so I decided to keep my mouth shut, but when I came to this part in the chapter, I flipped the fuck out (on the inside). And maybe I groaned and rolled my eyes. Because you're right, Oda SHOULD be better than this shit, but sadly, it isn't the first time he's done something like this.
On the OTHER hand, even Oda must realize that having Sanji in this situation makes little sense, considering that Vergo is built entirely around his relationships with Smoker, Tashigi and Law. I don't think that we'll have seen the last of Vergo after this confrontation with Sanji.
I was more upset when Tashigi got owned by Law after all the timeskip and not seeing her playing an active part in the story for more than 6 years. My anticipation for her got trolled hard, it almost felt like a betrayal to her vow at the end of the Alabasta arc. However, as someone mentioned before, I hope this is all character build up to make her eventually stronger. I am fairly sure that at this pace, she is gonna lose all her men and Smoker might be presumed dead at the end of this arc. She is pretty much heading for a complete mental breakdown. Among all the candidates for NN, she is pretty much the character that needs the most to be part of a fun, exciting and difficult adventure (fighting a yonku crew) with the straw hats to make her stronger.
Considering, how cool Zoro's speech to the NW, he should have been the one to save her (the right hand of the future PK saving a marine captain from a vice admiral would have been more fitting and ironic than the prince of the dumbass or retardia kingdom as Zoro puts it).
It actually sucks every time it happens. Arlong Park, for example.
Whoa,whoa, whoa, what are you saying here?
and it's more upsetting that Tashigi is crying for a man's help at all, whether or not his name is Sanji.
Tashigi is closer to Smoker than anyone else. She practically worships him. Why wouldn't she internally plea for his help when she thinks she's about to die? How is this any different than a crying Nami asking for help or Robin admitting she wants to live and tearfully begging for them to save her?
These are scenes of women being weak and asking for help from the big strong men they know, these are people who are mentally and physically broken pleading for help from those they trust most. Is it true that these big scenes mainly involve women? Yes. Is it because of some inherent sexism? No. It's because this is a classic Romantic story. The damsel in distress is a classic archetype that Oda has chosen to use. It's in the vein of romanticism, not because Oda is a sexist. One could perhaps claim the latter if none of the characters were never seen kicking ass, but they are, quite frequently.
That's why moments like these have such a strong impact: it's not just a fragile little girl begging for help; it's a strong independent woman who has been broken.
Think of the possible gags in store if Kinemon joins the crew now.
Sanji: Dinners ready, come get it!
Kinemon: Samurai's don't get hungry.
Sanji: I wont let you starve come eat!
Kinemon: Don't insult my pride as if I was a women who dressed scantily * Eyes Nami *
Sanji: Come here you flaming shit-head!
Kinemon: Trololololo!
Oh and also how do you think the fans would have reacted if it was Zoro in this match up instead of Sanji, because I would forsee an entirely different reaction.
The beginning was a bit slow, but I'm excited to see Sanji matching with Vergo here. And the ending was well-deserved payback. I thought it was hilarious how Smoker basically rings the doorbell and when the door opens Luffy just pops him in the guy on first sight.
@Nex:
Whoa,whoa, whoa, what are you saying here?
That Arlong Park was a damsel in distress arc.
@Nex:
Tashigi is closer to Smoker than anyone else. She practically worships him. Why wouldn't she internally plea for his help when she thinks she's about to die? How is this any different than a crying Nami asking for help or Robin admitting she wants to live and tearfully begging for them to save her?
These are scenes of women being weak and asking for help from the big strong men they know, these are people who are mentally and physically broken pleading for help from those they trust most. Is it true that these big scenes mainly involve women? Yes. Is it because of some inherent sexism? No. It's because this is a classic Romantic story. The damsel in distress is a classic archetype that Oda has chosen to use. It's in the vein of romanticism, not because Oda is a sexist. One could perhaps claim the latter if none of the characters were never seen kicking ass, but they are, quite frequently.
That archetype IS an example of inherent sexism. I'm not saying that Oda is A sexist, because I can't honestly know that, I'm saying that his manga plays into sexism and patriarchal bullshit. I just try to push that to the back of my brain so I can enjoy the finer moments of One Piece.
Think of the possible gags in store if Kinemon joins the crew now.
Sanji: Dinners ready, come get it!
Kinemon: Samurai's don't get hungry.
Sanji: I wont let you starve come eat!
Kinemon: Don't insult my pride as if I was a women who dressed scantily * Eyes Nami *
Sanji: Come here you flaming shit-head!
Kinemon: Trololololo!Oh and also how do you think the fans would have reacted if it was Zoro in this match up instead of Sanji, because I would forsee an entirely different reaction.
Yeah I have a feeling people woulda flipped out less if Zoro had been the one to backtrack because people like seeing him and Tashigi interact. But in a way I'm glad Zoro didn't go back. He really has no reason to actively save her. I can assume he would feel she should be competent enough to handle her mess if he actually saw her facing off, but he only sensed Vergo. I also thought that he's not inclined to help people that are technically an enemy. Also apparently he has danger sense but not a lady is crying sense so he'd have no reason to go back lol. There'd probably need to be a clear indication of swords clashing for him to take an interest but Vergo isn't a swordsman.
Sanji is already partially handicapped with previous injuries, not to mention both Law and Smoker already have their sights set on Vergo (as opposed to Sanji's flippant interference). Law needs his heart and Smoker carries a personal vendetta. Add in the impending gas leak by CC, and odds are set heavily against Sanji actually completing the fight. Yeah he may not lose, but he certainly has a high chance of being interrupted.
If Sanji is "handicapped', then pretty much everyone is. Usopp was badly hurt, Law, Smoker and Luffy were beaten and damaged, not to mention the heart issues.
Reminds me of people saying that Sanji wouldn't fight and beat Jabura due to "the damages inflicted by Calipha and the bathtub". Yeah, we know how that turned out.
@Nex:
Tashigi is closer to Smoker than anyone else. She practically worships him. Why wouldn't she internally plea for his help when she thinks she's about to die? How is this any different than a crying Nami asking for help or Robin admitting she wants to live and tearfully begging for them to save her?
Yeah, the whole "Oda and sexism" talk is just ridiculously annoying. People are easily offended by anything these days.
@400MillionBelis:
And that degrades the arc how?
Because my shounen manga aimed at teenage boys and specifically targeting their demographic supports men being cool.
@400MillionBelis:
And that degrades the arc how?
… It only degrades the arc to the quality it currently resides at?
I mean, I would think that people always took this into account when judging the arc.
That archetype IS an example of inherent sexism. I'm not saying that Oda is A sexist, because I can't honestly know that, I'm saying that his manga plays into sexism and patriarchal bullshit. I just try to push that to the back of my brain so I can enjoy the finer moments of One Piece.
I'm not personally offended by it, but I agree, can't deny that OP has a long tradition of using a female voice when trying to elicit sympathy from the reader: Shirahoshi, Conis, Vivi, Caimie, etc.
It's difficult to think of as many male candidates, though I guess there are a few: Tonjit, Dalton, Brook/many of the pirates in Thriller Bark…but never in quite the same "damsel in distress" way.
But really, just glad to have Epic Sanji back. His chivalry is not a bad characteristic, it's just been ruined by years of bad application. Go back and read the Sea Train sequence and it's like seeing an entirely different Sanji from what we have now.
That archetype IS an example of inherent sexism. I'm not saying that Oda is A sexist, because I can't honestly know that, I'm saying that his manga plays into sexism and patriarchal bullshit. I just try to push that to the back of my brain so I can enjoy the finer moments of One Piece.
Because Ace being the damsel in distress was so much better, right?
Because Ace being the damsel in distress was so much better, right?
…oh, and add Ace to that list! Stupid me.
That Arlong Park was a damsel in distress arc.
Here I have to disagree with you. For Nami to be a "Damsel in Distress" she has to be weak and incapable of doing anything on her own, like the classic Fairy Tale Damsels. Nami did everything she could before turning to Luffy for help. Arlong Park was not about Nami needing rescuing, it was about her learning to trust the others.
The same can be said for Robin and Enies Lobby. Yes, she needed rescuing in the end, but not because she was weak. If anything she was strong enough to sacrifice her life to say those she cared about. Enies Lobby wasn't about the crew rescuing her, it was about the crew showing her that she needed to go on living.
Ace was more of a Damsel in Distress than either Nami or Robin.
That archetype IS an example of inherent sexism. I'm not saying that Oda is A sexist, because I can't honestly know that, I'm saying that his manga plays into sexism and patriarchal bullshit. I just try to push that to the back of my brain so I can enjoy the finer moments of One Piece.
It would be an example of inherent sexism in One Piece if Oda were using it as a way to objectify women as a goal, which the "Damsel in Distress" of old were for the "brave knights." But that's not what Oda's doing. He's done "Damsel in Distress" arcs because they're inherent to Romanticism, but he's not using them to glorify the men, he's using them to brutally expose the "damsel in distress" and greatly develop their characters.
There's a reason why Nami asking Luffy for help and Robin admitting she wants to live are two of the series' best moments: not because we're all a bunch of sexists, but because these are two characters who were generally cold and detached who are now emotionally raw. It's the same reason that Zoro crying after the loss to Mihawk hits so hard. Same with the ever optimistic Luffy declaring how weak he is after Ace's death. These moments just wouldn't be the same if it were Franky, Brook, Usopp, or Sanji. Those characters exhibit such a range of emotions that while their moments might be strong, they wouldn't be as powerful.
So, tl;dr: Ace is the biggest Damsel in Distress we've seen in the series, and, last time I checked, he was a dude.
EDIT: Dammit! Here I am trying to write a well thought-out response, and Urouge gets the zinger in a single sentence. :getlost:
Because my shounen manga aimed at teenage boys and specifically targeting their demographic supports men being cool.
… It only degrades the arc to the quality it currently resides at?
I mean, I would think that people always took this into account when judging the arc.
Hrm…
An arc that featured a head strong mother who didn't give a crap, a ten(?) year old girl who took on the burden of a whole village and suffered for many years under Arlong, making maps and such; and living through hell while stealing from pirates and held her ground, and her heart was never broken in the process of it. She even got a tattoo, which I assume for such a young girl, will be unbearably painful.
Though in the end Nami couldn't take it anymore, she refused to lose her hope and decided for others to help.
Sounds like your normal girl crap to me.
Because Ace being the damsel in distress was so much better, right?
Uh, if the character of Ace had been a woman, that would have actually been a really awesome portrayal of a female character, now that I think about it.
I still can't waitt o see Vergo's Cp9 attacks versus Sanji's new attacks. Great chapter
Uh, if the character of Ace had been a woman, that would have actually been a really awesome portrayal of a female character, now that I think about it.
Because she would've been…topless?
I will be that person and say I didn't like that aspect of the Arlong Park arc. Enies Lobby I just didn't like for the fights. I didn't like the Marineford arc for the same reason. Maybe I just hate rescue arcs.
Basically, it's annoying because if Smoker was female and Tashigi was male, would this have happened in the same manner? I really doubt it.
Is it true that these big scenes mainly involve women? Yes. Is it because of some inherent sexism? No. It's because this is a classic Romantic story. The damsel in distress is a classic archetype that Oda has chosen to use. It's in the vein of romanticism, not because Oda is a sexist. One could perhaps claim the latter if none of the characters were never seen kicking ass, but they are, quite frequently.
That's why moments like these have such a strong impact: it's not just a fragile little girl begging for help; it's a strong independent woman who has been broken.
Actually, yeah, that is sexism inherent in society. I doubt anyone reading this or Oda is A Sexist, like TheCrystalShip said, but that doesn't make it any less a problem. Just because female characters kick ass does not mean that they are not subject to sexism. It's much better than just the straight damsel in distress trope, definitely, but at some point, she still ends up being robbed of her agency. What do we remember first about Nami and Robin's main arcs? Nami stabbing her arm and "I want to live!" Powerful, wonderful moments, absolutely, and I would not trade them at all. But it's very different because what do we remember about Zoro, Usopp, Sanji, Franky, Chopper, and Brook's main arcs? Them doing things. That is the essential difference. Nami and Robin did badass things, but those things are overshadowed in the story by their emotional reactions to their friends, which is a shame because Nami especially had an amazing story.
I am willing to just wait and see. Tashigi is just being torn down at this point, hopefully setting up for something amazing in the future. And as much as I don't like Sanji's development post-Thriller Bark, it was pretty damn cool seeing him tear in. And really, the entire chapter was worth it for the Brownbeard bus stuff.
Uh, if the character of Ace had been a woman, that would have actually been a really awesome portrayal of a female character, now that I think about it.
Wait. What? How? Ace got one cool moment in Alabasta before being beaten by Blackbeard (which definitely would have gotten cries of sexism) and then spending the majority of his screen time needing to be rescued. Compared to all of the women we've seen in this series (who have all been quite strong and independent, mind you) Ace would have been the most stereotypical "damsel" in the series.
… I set myself up for that.
Couldn't resist.
Also, to keep on topic: There have been both females and males in distress in OP. It's just that females have been a little more prominent. But the whole "Ace was a damsel in distress" is so true that it can't be denied. Hell, one could argue that Luffy was a "damsel in distress" when he was poisoned by Magellen and had to be saved by Bon-chan…he recovered and started kicking ass again, but for a while, he couldn't do anything.
A few thoughts on Sanji's "chivalry":
First, Sanji's character traits tend to get reduced to "woman crazy" too often. While it's definitely his dominant note–and one that Oda overplays, especially recently--he's also played a unique role in the crew as a whole. His interactions with Usopp/Luffy during the Water 7 Arc are a good example. As much as he's a ladies' man, he clearly and openly expresses his respect for the rest of the crew in a way that, say, Zoro usually only does in a nod of approval. Add in his ability to run long plans and he's bailed out the crew on several occasions.
The big problem is that he's been pretty badly screwed up since Thriller Bark and the Nami Wedding fiasco. At that point, he ceased being the cool/collected "chivalrous" guy in exchange for the "exploding guy with heart eyes."
In Water 7, we get this:
!
He then calmly figures out where Robin will be, sneaks onboard the water train, and beats the shit out of a whole lot of people.
Modern Sanji would have gone spinning in a love cyclone across town shrieking "ROBIN-CHWAAAAAN" and then been punched out by CP9 before lamely telling the rest of the crew where she went.
Old Sanji was chivalrous, among many other things. New Sanji is lecherous.
I'll take this chapter as a step in the right direction for one of the series' better characters.
Yeah, the whole "Oda and sexism" talk is just ridiculously annoying. People are easily offended by anything these days.
The truth. All of it.
@Nex:
Wait. What? How? Ace got one cool moment in Alabasta before being beaten by Blackbeard (which definitely would have gotten cries of sexism) and then spending the majority of his screen time needing to be rescued. Compared to all of the women we've seen in this series (who have all been quite strong and independent, mind you) Ace would have been the most stereotypical "damsel" in the series.
And a whiny bitch.
Mind you I loved him, and sympathize with his situation, but that doesn't change the fact he was one.
I don't have much of a problem with the Ace/Damsel in Distress comparison, but did Ace ever actually ask for someone to help him? Wasn't the whole shtick that he'd rather die?
If I'm getting the opposite side correctly, it's that Nami/Robin/Shirahoshi/Tashigi all had a big "HELP ME!" moment.
@Nex:
Here I have to disagree with you. For Nami to be a "Damsel in Distress" she has to be weak and incapable of doing anything on her own, like the classic Fairy Tale Damsels. Nami did everything she could before turning to Luffy for help. Arlong Park was not about Nami needing rescuing, it was about her learning to trust the others.
The same can be said for Robin and Enies Lobby. Yes, she needed rescuing in the end, but not because she was weak. If anything she was strong enough to sacrifice her life to say those she cared about. Enies Lobby wasn't about the crew rescuing her, it was about the crew showing her that she needed to go on living.
There's a reason why Nami asking Luffy for help and Robin admitting she wants to live are two of the series' best moments: not because we're all a bunch of sexists, but because these are two characters who were generally cold and detached who are now emotionally raw. It's the same reason that Zoro crying after the loss to Mihawk hits so hard. Same with the ever optimistic Luffy declaring how weak he is after Ace's death. These moments just wouldn't be the same if it were Franky, Brook, Usopp, or Sanji. Those characters exhibit such a range of emotions that while their moments might be strong, they wouldn't be as powerful.
These are probably the best points anyone has made for the "opposite side" (LOL) so far. I always liked how Robin's rescue and backstory were approached, because it actually served to make her seem stronger through hardship, than weaker. Which is true for all people, and thus, made her more relatable of a character than she was before. And more than that, it fit perfectly into the themes that had been touted throughout the story, for the Straw Hats to convince her that living is an option. So for her to say that she wanted to live actually resonated with me personally, and was done very well. IMO.
The truth. All of it.
my dad died by way of choking on a marshmallow, i am heavily offended by it and everyone should know before-hand, pls don't mention marshmallows kthx
Damsel in distress unfortunately isn't the only way that sexism can manifest itself in media.
yeah luffy and zoro are pretty sexualized, what with luffy's oft-open shirt and zoro's bounding muscles. the fact that all men in the series virtually have a six pack (besides the more heavy-set) is pretty objectifying/sexist too.