Steven Universe

Robby

One new episode a week for the periods CN feels like airing new episodes.

If it follows the pattern it did last year, there will be a steady stream of eps but with breaks in March, June, July, August and December.

If it follows the pattern of adventure time, they'll run 5-8 new eps in a row, then a few weeks of reruns… as they have to stretch a 26 episode season to cover a 52 week year and they seem to prefer not to just do it every other week.

We know for sure new eps are scheduled through the end of January.

Silver R. Bolt

@Conekiller:

Aren't the gem's they've been bubbling and storing from defeated monsters really just corrupted Crystal Gems? I recall getting that impression from the Season Finale.

Mirror Gem / Ocean Gem was intended as a seasonal finale, but its more of a Mid-Season Finale. Though there wasn't a break, so its just a few episodes. It was finale when there was 26 episodes per season, but the season got bumped up to 52, plus a second 52 long season.

But you are correct all the monsters they have encountered and bubbles are gems of some-sort that have been corrupted by an unknown source.

Robby

Given what Rose said in her video, she seems amazed by Earth having actual lives and living and things to do. Combined with Pearl's desire to see the universe, and how badly they've reacted both times they've seen another gem (and worried about Lapis going places) it might just be safe to say where they came from is not a place where you can really live or have much to do and it might be very bad there.

There's also inclinations that the group was sort of on the run, or maybe there was an accident of some sort. (given all the shard monsters running about) Mixed messages with the teleport platforms. They want them to work, but also not to work? It is possible when they checked them a few episodes back they were checking more to make sure they were still OFF, than the hope they might be on?

They don't want to go back… but they are also tired of being stranded just on Earth?

Wagomu

The warp systems suggest that the gems were a relatively social species (as allies or invaders). The warps in the same room as the homeworld warp presumably lead elsewhere off-planet, so they've probably been around the galaxy a few times. There's also a lot of gem stuff on earth, so they must have been peacefully cohabiting one way or another, and at least for centuries (the Crystal Gems have that one painting of themselves from colonial times). One more detail worth considering is that the homeworld gems believed all gem activity on earth was ceased.

I think it's likely that he gems are invaders of a sort. It doesn't seem like gems ever communicated much with humans and hid their bases of operation out in uninhabitable places. The Crystal Gems themselves are still pretty distant from humans, despite having been on earth for so long and Lapis had no qualms about sacrificing the entire ocean for her own purposes. They don't really seem to have an interest or regard of human lives or the planet itself, at least they didn't until Rose came along and her friends with her. That disinterest makes me think that they conquer planets for resources, which lends a little credence to the planet jacking idea. That's my thought.

What I really don't have a solid idea about is whatever conflict took place. Crystal Gems vs the rest would be the idea if what I said about was true, but it looks like there were multiple battlefields and lots of people on both sides. It also must have been violent for the gems to get broken as they were and turn into monsters, which doesn't suit the style of the Crystal Gems we know. Maybe there were more lefties among the gems and the CGs are the only survivors? All of this is speculation on speculation, though, so I don't feel safe speculating on it.

Robby

Yeah, its overall really hard to speculate at this point. There's little hints and bits, but nothing to make any truly educated guesses about.

That there was some conflict, and the leads don't want to be known about, are obvious… but beyond that...?

Femme

I'm thinking that Rose marrying a human and giving up her life might be part of it.

There might be a good guys team vs. bad guys team, cuz didn't Lapis mention them as "Crystal Gems" with disgust? Maybe theirs is a race of Gems, but divisions amongst themselves.

Silver R. Bolt

@Femme:

I'm thinking that Rose marrying a human and giving up her life might be part of it.

There might be a good guys team vs. bad guys team, cuz didn't Lapis mention them as "Crystal Gems" with disgust? Maybe theirs is a race of Gems, but divisions amongst themselves.

There was a clear distinction that the group are "Crystal Gems" and implied that they are different from her.

Wagomu

Holy shit, did Steven Universe just do a good story with a trans character? Like it's a fusion, but definitely a trans character, since the fusions are treated like separate characters, especially when interacting with others. Damn, I love this show.

Femme

That was really good and Garnet!! but… Wtf What about the cliffhanger from last ep!?

Silver R. Bolt

@Femme:

That was really good and Garnet!! but… Wtf What about the cliffhanger from last ep!?

Show's like this will always bring up stuff and drop it for a bit.

The newest episode was great. I just kind of wish that Tumblr didn't ruin the reveal before I got a chance to watch the episode. It wasn't like I got on Tumblr the day it aired, it was literally an hour before the episode premiered.

captain usopp

robby got me into this show a month or 2 ago. love it! I think that the gems got corupted somehow, and the crystal gems escaped to avoid that some how.

Also, to them, humans are like ants or something. not that they don't like them. they're just indifferent. The more they learn and bond with them, though, seems the more they grow to like them. Just never cared for these weird human creatures before.

also, garnet's reaction in the latest episode was priceless.

Robby

That was a very nice and sweet episode.

And yeah, all about Garnet. She's best.

Aside from Lion.

@Femme:

That was really good and Garnet!! but… Wtf What about the cliffhanger from last ep!?

Less a cliffhanger and more a "this'll be a thing in the future". Its the nature of the beast, unless its an explicit two parter, (or right after something major happens like a new cast member is added or someone dies… and that's usually a season finale/premiere thing) most shows with multiple ongoing plot threads will only focus on a given plot thread once every few episodes. Makes it easier on people that miss random episodes and gives them time to catch it in reruns.

Unless its a short run mini-series, its very rare that a show demands you catch every single episode in sequence to be able to follow it and there'll usually be some leeway to catch up.

Silver R. Bolt

Steven Universe is having all of its reruns removed from the channel starting next week. Say goodbye to Steven, its more or less getting canceled.

Hiroy

It's just a haitus.

Robby

@Hiroy:

It's just a haitus.

Its cartoon network. It probably means its getting cancelled.

If it was popular enough to sustain reruns, they'd keep it on the air constantly like they do with Adventure Time and Regular Show. It has enough episodes at this point it could air daily and only repeat every 8 weeks, and it has more coming, so there's no reason to pull it aside from they think something else can do better in its slot.

carcanclaw

There's a part of me that hopes Nick and CN keep treating amazing shows like garbage. They're old industry dinosaurs that need to go extinct so that a more varied, less centralized animation industry can be formed.

Things like Cartoon Hangover are the future, not the symbiotic, trend-chasing CalArts-Studio relationship that actively de-emphasizes the importance of good writing and engaging plotlines.

Nolus

Are you serious? Why, CN, why do this to my favourite shows? TF:A and Steven Universe? Screw them.

Average

If it's true they're getting cancelled, it fucking sucks. Arguably the best show on the network and they're getting rid of it.

captain usopp

this would make a good comic. they should continue on like that, if it does get canned.

Robby

Its guaranteed to the end of the season, 52 eps, because thats been in production.

But if they get their second season of 52? Who knows. Just cause it was scheduled doesn't mean anything, look at what happened to Generator Rex.

Hopefully it is just a brief respite rather than a bad sign, but ugh. Their track record does not inspire hope.

@carcanclaw:

There's a part of me that hopes Nick and CN keep treating amazing shows like garbage. They're old industry dinosaurs that need to go extinct so that a more varied, less centralized animation industry can be formed. s.

And where exactly would these more amazing varied shows go? Those are the only games in town. Its harder than it used to be to get an animated series made because no one carries them anymore. There needs to be SOMETHING out there.

Mostly the networks just need different people in charge. Not to go away entirely.

carcanclaw

@Robby:

And where exactly would these more amazing varied shows go? Those are the only games in town. Its harder than it used to be to get an animated series made because no one carries them anymore. There needs to be SOMETHING out there.

Mostly the networks just need different people in charge. Not to go away entirely.

It's tough to say. "The internet" is the obvious answer, but the Kickstarter model is unreliable. The ideal would be something akin to the Indie gaming revolution seen in the games industry, especially when we take into account the fact that the development time and budget requirements to produce good animation are far lower than what one needs to make a quality game.

People are saying that it would be a shame if a standout show like Steven Universe got canned, I'm saying it's a shame there are so few standout shows to begin with. The well-documented relationship between CalArts and Nick/CN/Disney has led to the same types of show being produced over and over again.

Aspiring animators need CalArts to make connections with these studios, so you have everyone in the industry coming from a single school. That doesn't even begin to get into the fact that CalArts offers no degrees in writing for animation, which goes a long way towards explaining why so few shows have noteworthy plots.

When we reach a point where talented writers can team up with talented animators and create popular cartoons without the needing the approval of creatively bankrupt publishers, we'll have arrived at a new Golden Age for the medium.

Wagomu

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Steven Universe is the show I look forward to every week. Adventure Time and Regular Show continue to deliver, but Steven Universe is the one that I can't live without. It's just got such good characters, art, music, and an interesting story tying everything together. Plus it manages to express a lot of progressive views and stories. The show hits a high score on the Bechdel Test and has really strong and smart stories about growing up and being human. That last episode alone gave us one of the best stories about intimacy, identity and anxiety to ever air on a kids show. I know none of these things factor into network decisions, but that's exactly what makes me angry about this.

Please, Cartoon Network, Steven Universe is an experience. Let it be a good one.

Hiroy

I'm still holding out that there's information we don't really know to safely jump aboard the "it's cancelled" boat. The situation just feels all too different dispte the simalaries with CN's track record. So yeah, not going to touch this until there's some official word or reason to panic.

Robby

@carcanclaw:

It's tough to say. "The internet" is the obvious answer, but the Kickstarter model is unreliable. The ideal would be something akin to the Indie gaming revolution seen in the games industry, especially when we take into account the fact that the development time and budget requirements to produce good animation are far lower than what one needs to make a quality game.

Uhm. Not really. Quality animation is expensive, and its always going to be time consuming.

Flash animated show cut back on the production time and effort a fair bit, when you get something like South Park that can be churned out in a week… but something like SU or Avatar or Venture Brothers is always going to cost a lot in both time and money.

Indie games may be playable and good and quality, but they are not at the same level of production as AAA titles.

Wagomu

Yeah, I'm a big supporter of initiatives like Cartoon Hangover, but I think that, due to the loads of additional work needed to make an animated feature, most of the dudes who would be interested in that have gone to the webcomic scene or the indie game scene, since they make use of most of the same talents involved and are either easier to maintain and/or more rewarding to make.

carcanclaw

@Robby:

Uhm. Not really. Quality animation is expensive, and its always going to be time consuming.

Flash animated show cut back on the production time and effort a fair bit, when you get something like South Park that can be churned out in a week… but something like SU or Avatar or Venture Brothers is always going to cost a lot in both time and money.

Indie games may be playable and good and quality, but they are not at the same level of production as AAA titles.

I've always been under the impression that animation budgets rarely reach the multi-million dollar levels that it takes to make a quality indie game. Considering that gorgeous shows like Wakfu are being made in Flash now, I see no reason why they would.

Avatar is on a whole other level cost-wise. I can't imagine this show or Venture Bros even scratch the surface of what Avatar costs to make.

KamenRiderNeko

Isn't there a DVD out for SU? It really is sad if CN is canceling it, it's the only show I watch on there. Maybe it will make it's way onto Netflix?

Robby

Gargoyles cost half a mill per episode, and that was 20 years ago. I can only imagine what costs are now.

The good stuff costs $$$, pure and simple.

Wagomu

On the other hand, the episodes are shorter and the means to make it are easier and cheaper (with computers available for animation, music and communication).

Robby

The episodes beign shorter just means they make a 52 episode season for the traditional budget of a 26 episode season. It boils out about the same in terms of actual runtime… the format just forces them to make more stories, with less filler and commercial cliffhangers.

Which isn't a bad thing, really.

@carcanclaw:

I've always been under the impression that animation budgets rarely reach the multi-million dollar levels that it takes to make a quality indie game.

Not per episode maybe, but as a whole? Yeah, its pretty standard for a season to cost quite a bit. Anime productions that totally skimp on frames and use a lot of cheats can get by on a few million for a whole season, but the higher quality animation always costs way more.

Flash animations are obviously cheaper, especially fi they don't try at all like the Adult Swim shows such as Aqua Team or Squidbillies, where they just recycle 4 frames for the entirety of the series.

Wagomu

True, though it does make everything a little shorter (since they have to double up on title sequences and credits) and reduces the per episode cost (even if they end up just using the savings to produce more and ending up in the same place).

I think the means are a more valid point, though. I'm just speculating as far as this goes, but I imagine for a show like Gargoyles, they had to spend much more time and money drawing and soundtracking than you have to these days with digital animation and music.

Silver R. Bolt

@carcanclaw:

There's a part of me that hopes Nick and CN keep treating amazing shows like garbage. They're old industry dinosaurs that need to go extinct so that a more varied, less centralized animation industry can be formed.

Things like Cartoon Hangover are the future, not the symbiotic, trend-chasing CalArts-Studio relationship that actively de-emphasizes the importance of good writing and engaging plotlines.

Well. Here's some back story info about Cartoon Hangover. The channel was created as part of Google's Premium Channel push. Google had a couple of Million dedicated to giving to personalities, companies, and big names to create content for Youtube. It was their attempt to get higher quality content on the site to help beat out Television. Geek and Sundry, Cartoon Hangover, Pet Connection, etc. The problem is that a lot of those channels, Geek and Sundry and Cartoon Hangover included didn't perform as projected, and its considered a failure. Obviously Felicia Day and Frederator are still working on the channels because no matter what, its still basically profit due to them not having to put up money for the upstart.

You might be wondering how could Channel Frederator be doing poorly if it has 1.5 Mil Subs. In its first year it had roughly a milion put into its budget for content, and it got 300,000 subscribers in its first year. That would be great and do well if it was a independent animator, but as a full company that is terrible. With the Google money, Frederator was able to make Bravest Warriors, Super Fuckers, a bunch of one offs like Doctor Lollipop and Bee and Puppycat and some one animator shorts like Rocket Dog. Super Fuckers bombed and was cut, Bravest Warriors is able to live and do having Pen Ward's name attached to it.

Bee and PuppyCat had to do a kick-starter because they ran out of that google money, and B&PC is too much of a risk financially to put their own money in. Bravest Warrior's is safe, due to Adventure Time's popularity.

I'm not talking down on Cartoon Hangover. I respect them a lot. I'm actually gonna to be partnered with Channel Frederator/Cartoon Hangover in March. I'm super excited about it. Been in talks with em since Jan of 2014 but was stuck in contract with Fullscreen. But the thing about Youtube is that for you to do super well you need to be one of two options; Type A: Be able to produce content on a steady time frame of 1 or more a week; ideal once a day (Example: Pewdiepie) or Type B: Make really high quality videos a once a month but get a crazy amount of views (Example ERB.)

The average cartoon on Youtube is 1.5 Minutes long. Bee and Puppycat "episodes" are 6 minutes. If Steven Universe was to switch to Cartoon Hangover, we would most likely see 5.25 minute episodes. Which are 11 minute videos cut in half, like how Bee is done.

TLDR:

Youtube/Cartoon Hangover is not going to replace Cartoon Network/Nickelodeon. Youtube's structure could only really support 2 minute to 6 minute long cartoons produce once a week. But the payout is in the long-run and will not benefit the company spending the money required to get it short term.

carcanclaw

@Silver:

Youtube/Cartoon Hangover is not going to replace Cartoon Network/Nickelodeon. Youtube's structure could only really support 2 minute to 6 minute long cartoons produce once a week. But the payout is in the long-run and will not benefit the company spending the money required to get it short term.

So what is the solution, then? We're left with two unsustainable models that are very prone to fail: One where the distribution method is too unreliable despite a wealth of creativity, and another that's too formulaic to make full use of its immense resources.

As a side note, the above statement could also easily be applied to the games and music industries.

Silver R. Bolt

@carcanclaw:

So what is the solution, then? We're left with two unsustainable models that are very prone to fail: One where the distribution method is too unreliable despite a wealth of creativity, and another that's too formulaic to make full use of its immense resources.

As a side note, the above statement could also easily be applied to the games and music industries.

Well, Youtube is bad for the media. Web is the answer.

Netflix is currently producing cartoons. Granted they range from Dreamworks cartoons to Bojack Horseman. But they are currently producing cartoons. Amazon, Hulu, and Yahoo are also producing cotent with TV budgets for the web. (Not necessarily cartoons.)

Yahoo would be a good place to look. They're currently new to the streaming content game, but they have the money to play some risk. They've taken shows off TV before, like Community and then up'd the budget. So that could be an outlook.

Robby

Like I said before, mostly the networks just need different people in charge. Cartoon Network was fine when it had someone tht actually loved cartoons and appreciated the history in charge. They could see where quality was and would support it in the long term, while also having creatives in charge where their enthusiasm and insight would go a long way.

For instance, Toonami's lineup when the right people were in charge of it was super successful, or when they had a whole string of in house hits like Dexter's lab and Powerpuff Girls, shows that would run for years and years.

Its just the previous president, who wanted to be on the Disney channel model and produce a ton of live action (which nobody wanted) and stated in interviews they didn't like animation to begin with (so they were a terrible person for the job.) I believe there's been a turnover finally, but who knows how long it'll take the new regime to stabilize… or if they're any different.

(The best ideal was when all the main channels had saturday morning cartoons, because then there were a lot of outlets and competition... but thats not the case anymore.)

Ubiq

New episodes are still going to air; it's just that the replays of Steven Universe are being removed for Gumball episodes. Something like 60% of their daytime programming is now going to be either Teen Titans Go or The Amazing World of Gumball as a result.

Robby

Yes, new episodes are still coming… but the pulling of reruns means its not pulling the weight they want it to compared to other things... and it will be getting less exposure.

So it's not dropping it off the new-night schedule, but its not really a positive sign either, given their track record.

Wagomu

Another great episode yesterday. Calling back to the Sea Spire really gives us a good frame for Steven's growth and it was really great seeing him be the one looking out for the other gems this time. It was refreshing and touching to get a glimpse behind the façade the gems put up for Steven's sake and it really brings out the warmth behind their strange overprotective/underprotective parenting of Steven. Plus the episode threw in a well-timed Eva reference to boot. Goddamn, I love this show.

taboo

@carcanclaw:

So what is the solution, then? We're left with two unsustainable models that are very prone to fail: One where the distribution method is too unreliable despite a wealth of creativity, and another that's too formulaic to make full use of its immense resources.

As a side note, the above statement could also easily be applied to the games and music industries.

honestly I think that the TV channels are still the best considering the hits that survived long enough to produce a decent story. JLU, PPG, etc etc are all really fantastic and lengthy works and could never exist on something like YouTube. Netflix maybe.

All shows have a time to die and it should be kept in mind when you're watching that eventually it will run out of juice regardless. Maybe mini series, like Over the Garden Wall, are the way to go in that case.

Conekiller

Pearl mentioned that Steven no longer has his healing power. I don't recall this happening before?

Wagomu

In "House Guest," Greg lied about Steven's healing abilities not working and that actually affected his abilities. At least he can't heal consistently anymore.

Gizmo

Double checked with locatetv.com and the post seems legitimate (though I'll admit I'm not sure if it's a reliable site), but the worry about reruns might have been premature. Looks like the reruns for the show are back starting February 2.

www.lunarseaspire.com/2015/01/good-news-for-january-25-and-february

Wagomu

I'm gonna hope that's correct, because looking at the descriptions for the rest of the episodes this season, the end is where things really start to get moving. SU's been lucky enough to have this large of a run, but its got a good enough pace and concept to last it for a while, so I really hope they get the support to keep at it.

I wish there was a better way to directly support it than DVD sales. I'm actually contemplating buying the season on iTunes and I hate buying shit on iTunes.

Hiroy

What an amazing episode. The part when Steven considered how the gems felt after overhearing how hard they try as guardians in Rose's shoes was probably his most mature moment in the whole show. It made me seriously question myself and the concept being lying to people to care about to make them feel better. Aside that, everything Wag said. This show is the best thing.

taboo

@Wagomu:

I'm gonna hope that's correct, because looking at the descriptions for the rest of the episodes this season, the end is where things really start to get moving. SU's been lucky enough to have this large of a run, but its got a good enough pace and concept to last it for a while, so I really hope they get the support to keep at it.

I wish there was a better way to directly support it than DVD sales. I'm actually contemplating buying the season on iTunes and I hate buying shit on iTunes.

i guess you could always email and write letters pretending to be a 9-13 year old male

Wagomu

@taboo:

i guess you could always email and write letters pretending to be a 9-13 year old male

At 23, I'm like slightly more than two 11 year old males!

Below Average

So, I know that I'm kind of late to the party on this one but I've recently marathon-ed this series and it is incredible. The voice cast is superb and the stories are creative. Each of the main characters are visually distinct with well established personalities and the interaction between the leads is one of the funniest aspects of the show.

The animation, the backgrounds, and, most of all, the music are all incredibly well done. There is so much creativity and love put in to these plots and the morals are surprisingly mature for a children's show. There is just enough of the Crystal Gems' past hinted at that I want to keep watching regularly. I can't believe that I've waited this long to give this series a chance.

Ubiq

So "We kept Amethyst" wasn't really a joke then.

Wagomu

Man, this show gets heavy at the least expected times. The really simple episode descriptions help do that, too. Damn, that episode, though…

Holy backstory bombs.

taboo