I think the idea was that Houken's strike was weaker than normal because he couldn't use both arms to swing his weapon
Aye, Both Shin's arms > Hoken's one arm.
Kingdom
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I felt like Kyoukai backed Shin up a little bit. Am I wrong?
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@Myu:
I felt like Kyoukai backed Shin up a little bit. Am I wrong?
Maybe. But I think she just sensed that he "evolved" or something like that.
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Maybe. But I think she just sensed that he "evolved" or something like that.
It's probably like that and it's me whos trying to neglect Shin reflected Houken with willpower. Yes it's a weight we're talking about and it's a thing but even if it's one handed Houken it shouldn't be enough, or so i feel.
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If only it was one handed Houken vs healthy Shin I wouldn't mind it at all, but here we have one handed Houken vs tired as hell and exhausted Shin, and still Shin won in brute force… I personally didn't like It, plus Houken fled away like a bitch in the end... man I didn't enjoy those 2 chapters, It's not like it was bad, I just thought that the way the author handled things was too shonen-like.
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@Myu:
It's probably like that and it's me whos trying to neglect Shin reflected Houken with willpower. Yes it's a weight we're talking about and it's a thing but even if it's one handed Houken it shouldn't be enough, or so i feel.
lol would you prefer Shin to be killed like a dog by Houken right then and there?
Personally, I didn't like Shin fighting with Houken in the first place. The buildup was kinda rushed and the author made Shin look so selfish as to why he wanted to fight Houken. It could have been handled better. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/kingdom/v32/c348/8.html This scene right here is what I'm talking about. It was kinda cheesy and selfish of Shin to say that. It would have been better if he said some more cliche/emotional like "I'll avenge the Duke and make this bastard pay for everything he's done" or something badass like "It's time for me to teach this motherfucker what it really means to have an army/nation depend on you (or something that stabs at Houken's weakness, his lack of the "air" of a true great general)". Apart from the buildup, the fight itself was manly but kinda unbelievable for Shin to survive even a weakened Houken. I wouldn't mind a 3 vs 1 ala Yotanwa and Bajio, with Shin getting the "moment of impact" in the duel by surprising Houken with his strength during one exchange. Then again, I guess it wouldn't be honorable to have more than a one on one in a duel during this era.
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lol would you prefer Shin to be killed like a dog by Houken right then and there?
Personally, I didn't like Shin fighting with Houken in the first place. The buildup was kinda rushed and the author made Shin look so selfish as to why he wanted to fight Houken. It could have been handled better. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/kingdom/v32/c348/8.html This scene right here is what I'm talking about. It was kinda cheesy and selfish of Shin to say that. It would have been better if he said some more cliche/emotional like "I'll avenge the Duke and make this bastard pay for everything he's done" or something badass like "It's time for me to teach this motherfucker what it really means to have an army/nation depend on you (or something that stabs at Houken's weakness, his lack of the "air" of a true great general)". Apart from the buildup, the fight itself was manly but kinda unbelievable for Shin to survive even a weakened Houken. I wouldn't mind a 3 vs 1 ala Yotanwa and Bajio, with Shin getting the "moment of impact" in the duel by surprising Houken with his strength during one exchange. Then again, I guess it wouldn't be honorable to have more than a one on one in a duel during this era.
But it have to be done in here,
! if the still follow the history, Houken's career in military should end after the coalition
basicly, Shin was just doing Zoro stuff (with his Sandai Kitetsu). -
! if the still follow the history, Houken's career in military should end after the coalition
! Unless I'm wrong there is nothing getting stated about his career ending. He just never gets mentioned again, which means nothing if even the likes of Ousen/ Wang Jian are treated like that in the historical records.
! I'm pretty sure that Houken will remain one of the Three Great Heavens in the manga for as long as Zhao exists and because he never was someone who would lead men into battle its kinda comprehensible, that he will not be mentioned in official history books anymore. And Yotanwa as well as Kanki are never heard about again after getting defeated by Riboku, so there is enough room for the author to make Houken even more hated by the fans.
! For the latest chapters, I'm with Mirage. Its far too early and completely unrealistic in regards to Shins condition, that he can beat Houken. Its like Luffy seriously cornering an admiral during Marineford; it wouldnt made sense, no matter how injured or exhausted the admirals would be. -
Soooo….uhmmm can we move the discussion to the current raw chapter.now.? Who is that cocky bastard ?
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I like the way Shin pulled off the victory, he used his head, knowing that he would lose if he didn't exploit Houken's injury. The slash across the face was a bit much though, by then you'd expect Houken to take Shin seriously, but I guess everything happened so fast.
Shin's probably going to be humbled by Houken in the future. He somewhat had the element of surprise, being unknown and in some incredible form despite being exhausted. He'll be facing Houken at 100% the next time they clash, no injury and no element of surprise.
Yo Tan Wa was so badass "Silently accept that your names shall be etched into history as the vanquished".
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I still think it was too much. Like too, too much. I was OK while reading it because since I saw Kyoukai meditating and thinking him I though he sensed Houken and Shin in some way since Houken was using the same technique she use. But it seems Kyoukai just sensed him and didn't support him any way. So it should be literally impossible for Houken to lose in power even if it is a one handed Houken. We should consider Shin was exhausted too. Disregarding his previous fights he gave everything to his to the seven day battle. After all that sending back Houken's ass?
I agree Shin should lose to Houken one more time but I don't see Houken leaving him alive after a battle. Maybe he will under go a character development too. Because I can't see it possible this way.
About raws:
! I'm onto raws since the last two chapters. I'm eager to this battle to be honest. All the 3 characters have room to grow. And it seems the general of Wei is a legendary one, Great General material. I love it! I totally would like to see Tou became a general of his own leaving his Ouki's lieutenant shell. Since there are a lots of pumped characters I don't see him being a beast then he already is but It'll be fun to watch him in a corner and find his way out himself.
! But I sense all he'll do is will be killing the enemies most formidable opponent strength wise and the other glory would go to Shin and Ouhon. -
I think the idea was that Houken's strike was weaker than normal because he couldn't use both arms to swing his weapon
Plus Houken swung downwards while Shin attacked his weapon more from the side.
It's a stretch yeah, but Shin is supposedly brutally strong so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Houken might not have attacked with full force either, since he (thought he) was fighting a kid.
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Shit just got real in kingdom 382. http://www.mangabird.com/kingdom-382
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That guy shoukd be paired with sai's mother…..lol
Cant wait for the scans to catch up with this.
Btw dont you just love that cover pag e ?
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@Myu:
About raws:
! I'm onto raws since the last two chapters. I'm eager to this battle to be honest. All the 3 characters have room to grow. And it seems the general of Wei is a legendary one, Great General material. I love it! I totally would like to see Tou became a general of his own leaving his Ouki's lieutenant shell. Since there are a lots of pumped characters I don't see him being a beast then he already is but It'll be fun to watch him in a corner and find his way out himself.
! But I sense all he'll do is will be killing the enemies most formidable opponent strength wise and the other glory would go to Shin and Ouhon.! Judging by the flow of things, i would say Tou will die by the end of this arc and Shin would end up inheriting the remnants of ouki's army.
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@Myu:
! And it seems the general of Wei is a legendary one, Great General material.
! All three are Great Generals. So now, between the three Great Heavens of zhao and the six Qin Great Generals,we have the seven Fire Dragons of Wei. I wonder if Qi and Chu have similiar groups. (Han and Yan seem too small).
! But I have to say, they are coming out of nowhere. Yes, there is an explanation, but they should at least have been mentioned before, if they were so famous. The author really should plan stuff like that beforehand.@zeff:
! Judging by the flow of things, i would say Tou will die by the end of this arc and Shin would end up inheriting the remnants of ouki's army.
! Noone with such a fancy mustache would die so easily.
HISTORICAL SPOILER:
! >! He conquers Han later and is even mentioned as surviving the whole unification war, though its not clear, if he will survive as long in the manga as well. -
! I thought they said at the beginning of the second wei war that wei didn't have any famous older great generals left and that renpa was supposed to be the only one?
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! I thought they said at the beginning of the second wei war that wei didn't have any famous older great generals left and that renpa was supposed to be the only one?
! The Fire Dragons were suppossed to have died out a while ago, but in truth killed each other in an internal power struggle and the surviving ones were thrown in prison. But now, with Qin being just too strong to deal with anymore they were rehabilitated.
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! Now the question is, are these "Fire Dragons" historical generals? Probably not, like the Kanmei thing Aohige explained. But then, this "Fire Dragons" thing does kinda lessen the "hype" for when they actually conquer Wei, unless those guys do survive this arc. In real life, Ouhon took down Wei by flooding the capital so… here's to hoping those great generals of Wei don't fall here.
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! Now the question is, are these "Fire Dragons" historical generals? Probably not, like the Kanmei thing Aohige explained. But then, this "Fire Dragons" thing does kinda lessen the "hype" for when they actually conquer Wei, unless those guys do survive this arc. In real life, Ouhon took down Wei by flooding the capital so… here's to hoping those great generals of Wei don't fall here.
They aren't historical generals.
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Was this the first and last time the name of Shun the Horse was dropped?
It's not like it was bad, I just thought that the way the author handled things was too shonen-like.
Hara writes his manga by the book of shonen tropes. It's not much of a stretch to imagine that if published just a few decades earlier, Kingdom could make it into the main Shonen Jack magazine, together with Fist of the North Star, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and Bastard!! even if today it became popular in a magazine targeted at the seinen demographic group.
@zeff:
! Judging by the flow of things, i would say Tou will die by the end of this arc and Shin would end up inheriting the remnants of ouki's army.
Yes, let's have all great generals of Qin and all of the Hi Shin squad finally die so that Shin can be promoted to a great general one man army and submit all of China on his own by shouting loudly and obnoxiously until every other state gives into his demands.
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They aren't historical generals.
How do you know this? Could you at least tell me their names (Japanese pronunciation or Chinese, doesn't matter)?
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How do you know this? Could you at least tell me their names (Japanese pronunciation or Chinese, doesn't matter)?
! From spoiler thread:
! "The 3 remaining Fire Dragons are: Ling Huang(灵凰/靈凰)the grim strategist, Kai Meng(凯孟) the iron general and Zi Bo/Chai Bo(紫伯/柴伯) the strongest spear warrior in the history of Wei. " -
It's out, 3 new chapters http://www.batoto.net/comic/_/comics/kingdom-r642
As expected the coalition army war is finished, Qin won and everything is back to normal… Happy ending.
Honestly I'm happy that we are moving forward, I want to see new generals especially from Chu, plus the king of Qi what a strange person and it seems he have some strong generals too.... I can't wait! -
! From spoiler thread:
! "The 3 remaining Fire Dragons are: Ling Huang(灵凰/靈凰)the grim strategist, Kai Meng(凯孟) the iron general and Zi Bo/Chai Bo(紫伯/柴伯) the strongest spear warrior in the history of Wei. "Thanks for the info.
! So the girl (or bishie) is the strategist, so no surprises there. The iron general is the guy that likes quickies before battles, so I'll call him quickie general instead, unless iron describes his hard uh, polearm. And the characters for the last one doesn't seem to match up to the masked general but it could be that the Chinese translation for 382 used traditional characters.
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It felt so good to see Riboku defeated for once. I couldn't stand that arrogant bastard anymore.
Now to look forward to those "SOL" chapters. Cannot wait to see what rank Shin is going to be promoted to (probably 5000 man commander for now).
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Riboku is arrogant? Did i miss something?
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self-confidence goes in with some sort of arrogant behavior from Riboku i think…
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Maybe smug would be the better word to describe Reebok, although it might be the same as arrogant. He's not arrogant per se when he plans shit but rather he wears a smug face like "You ain't never gonna beat my plans and shit, they're infallible" and afterwards, "Oh, you destroyed my master plan? Here's Houken as your reward".
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"Oh, you destroyed my master plan? Here's Houken as your reward".
"Oops, Houken was pushed back by a kid! KTHNXBAI!"
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lolllll Mountain Tribe people reacting to Yotanwa being very… efficient about her war conquests and moving on after Sai. "Are you serious?"
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someone should make a gif of all the bitchfaces of Riboku when he knew he was fucked.
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Honestly I don't have problem with arrogant capable characters like Ribuko, He already proved that he is great strategist by defeating one of the 6 great generals of Qin.
It's true that in this last battle he didn't show great skill but still defeating Ouki is largely sufficient to proof your strength.
I have problems with arrogant characters that are only big talk, and didn't proof anything like Yoruichi from Bleach, god I hate this type of personality.Sorry my English is not perfect.
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Honestly I don't have problem with arrogant capable characters like Ribuko, He already proved that he is great strategist by defeating one of the 6 great generals of Qin.
It's true that in this last battle he didn't show great skill but still defeating Ouki is largely sufficient to proof your strength.
I have problems with arrogant characters that are only big talk, and didn't proof anything like Yoruichi from Bleach, god I hate this type of personality.Well, the thing is, people hate him because he can't accomplish anything without Houken. I hate how people use the argument that Reebok took down Ouki, therefore he's capable. Yeah, he's fairly competent but wouldn't have been possible without Houken. In my opinion, Zhao had no one else capable of holding back Ouki, Moubu, and Tou from cutting a path and escaping. It is like he's so smug because he knows BFF Houken has his back.
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Woah woah woah , who said houken could defeat Ouki ? He was only able to land a critical strike because some asshole distracted Ouki with a bitch arrow to the back. If I recall correctly it was Riboku who ordered that trecherous blow , all went well according to plan. It was a cowardly plan from a cowardly general…and guess what it worked. He flawlessly lured both Ouki and Moubu into his trap, even Ouki acknowledge that he was ouwitted brilliantly. Give the guy credit where it is due.
You may hate him for using Houken as his pawn but he is his best pawn in his arsenal , its very logical to use your strongest for victory after all war is all about winning. Haters gonna hate is all I can say.
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Woah woah woah , who said houken could defeat Ouki ? He was only able to land a critical strike because some asshole distracted Ouki with a bitch arrow to the back. If I recall correctly it was Riboku who ordered that trecherous blow , all went well according to plan. It was a cowardly plan from a cowardly general…and guess what it worked. He flawlessly lured both Ouki and Moubu into his trap, even Ouki acknowledge that he was ouwitted brilliantly. Give the guy credit where it is due.
You may hate him for using Houken as his pawn but he is his best pawn in his arsenal , its very logical to use your strongest for victory after all war is all about winning. Haters gonna hate is all I can say.
He didn't order it, but he didn't make an attempt to stop oy either.
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If I recall correctly it was Riboku who ordered that trecherous blow , all went well according to plan.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/kingdom/v16/c168/16.html Gika says hi. Yes, his plans start out great, but the follow up often leaves much to be desired.
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A commander not stopping his own troop even with his knowledge of treacherous warfare is the same as giving someone the go signal to attack. The outcome must not have much to be desired for you but that still doesn't mean he is just fairly competent, he is very capable. Heck even Ouki himself acknowledged this man's skills, give him the credit he deserves.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/kingdom/v16/c172/12.html
Even without Houken, and even with Ouki and the Moubu escaping, the point of them retreating and running away from the enemy proves that they have been beaten.
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Yeah, I'd say Reebok did an alright job with Ouki. It's the plans after where they start off pretty good and end up needing to use his fallback position that leave more to be desired.
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@Purple:
Yeah, I'd say Reebok did an alright job with Ouki. It's the plans after where they start off pretty good and end up needing to use his fallback position that leave more to be desired.
Can on, it's like using your clan castle on a raid on Clash of Clans, we'd all prefer not to, but that's the whole point of having a trump card. Even if it's over used or widely known, it's still a trump card.
I recommend: Peerless Martial God, Renegade Immortal, Gourmet of Another World, Trash of the Counts Family and The Great Ruler
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Don't you guys want to see what Reebok-sama is fully capable of? I want to see contingency plans that don't revolve around Houken.I'm giving credit where it is due but don't you see that anyone can spam a trump card? If Reebok was a mediocre strategist, I would have no problem with this, it's what second rate guys do. But this guy is hyped up to be the strategist so at least he can show us how he can follow up his plans without using the Houken card. It's like playing chess, Reebok likes to bring out his queen after his first pawn is killed. There's other pieces on the field that you can move before you bring out the queen Reebok… :getlost:
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Don't you guys want to see what Reebok-sama is fully capable of? I want to see contingency plans that don't revolve around Houken.I'm giving credit where it is due but don't you see that anyone can spam a trump card? If Reebok was a mediocre strategist, I would have no problem with this, it's what second rate guys do. But this guy is hyped up to be the strategist so at least he can show us how he can follow up his plans without using the Houken card. It's like playing chess, Reebok likes to bring out his queen after his first pawn is killed. There's other pieces on the field that you can move before you bring out the queen Reebok… :getlost:
Wait, he is an excelent strategist.
Wait he fails at is tactics, not strategy.
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Wait, he is an excelent strategist.
Wait he fails at is tactics, not strategy.
Well, I don't know how legit this is but… http://www.diffen.com/difference/Strategy_vs_Tactic
if he fails at tactics, his strategy fails too. -
An invincible queen. Only an idiot moves the real queen first since it's too valuable to exchange and any decent player would constantly attack your queen, allowing them to make a nice formation while you're just wasting turns moving your queen around.
I hardly care about rebook-sama anymore. I feel he's been hyped up and failing for too long. Rebook was just some last minute thing at Ouki's and just used the Houken card constantly after that. Not really a good way to show off some strategist grandmaster.
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Can on, it's like using your clan castle on a raid on Clash of Clans, we'd all prefer not to, but that's the whole point of having a trump card. Even if it's over used or widely known, it's still a trump card.
Yeah, except it's not. Well, I've never played Clash of Clans, but presumably I assume you're talking about doing the actual raid, not getting continuously sidelined in terms of your tactics and needing to fall back on just one guy. You wouldn't think that one of the greatest strategists would rely on solely one strategy without any other plan and then needs to use the ace up his sleeve right after the initial plan fails.
Like I said, he sets things up pretty well, but when things go down the gutter he needs another guy to bail him out, which is a kinda lame way of trying to show him as one of the best strategists of the period.
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To be fair, in a realistic situation, where good guys don't have ridiculous outbursts of strength, speed and stamina, he would have won each time without the help of Houken.
Another thing is strange though. Houken's insistency to fight while riding a horse. He should be more at home while fighting on ground, even against a horseman. A horse is just a big target that can potentially fuck up his enemy.
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Another thing is strange though. Houken's insistency to fight while riding a horse. He should be more at home while fighting on ground, even against a horseman. A horse is just a big target that can potentially fuck up his enemy.
Don't bushins have to excel at all forms of combat? I'd like to see the author draw a comic strip where the horse is riding Houken and Houken's like, "It's just a handicap." lol
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Don't bushins have to excel at all forms of combat? I'd like to see the author draw a comic strip where the horse is riding Houken and Houken's like, "It's just a handicap." lol
Don't forget Zhao slingshot combat
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@Purple:
Don't forget Zhao slingshot combat
lol "I am the bushin! Leeroy Jenkins be mine name!"
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Riboku does have contingency plans for all his enemies that is able to break his plans, it is just that it is not allowed to happen. He ordered reinforcements after he saw houken losing to ouki , he already coralled the duke and his men during the sai arc given time cut off from reinforcemnts all these armies will slowly wither away until the very last men presumably the generals. You all seem to forget that riboku is not fighting mere nameless general , he is figthing generals on Ouki's level , it woule be foolish not to utilize your best assets during battle. Houken will always be part of the plan.
