Chapter 600: "The Island of Restarting" Discussion
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@Sea:
Without the little girl who asked "Which one is bigger", the giants wouldn't fight and we wouldn't have Little Garden Arc. The crew may have been eaten by the giant fish. The two giant in Enies Lobby wouldn't be there and the Gallela carpenters would be all dead.
So important of a character, huh?
Nope, she is just there as a reason for the events to happen.
Rayleigh is there to just to be a reason the crew can go into New World (Oda could have choose a random ship-coater to do it), just a reason for Luffy to give a message (Jinbei could be chosen to be the one to come up with that).Rayleigh is an important plot device, sure, but a plot device is a plot device.
So now you're saying that Rayleigh is a plot device? Aren't you being hard-headed?
Rayleigh is basically WB but actually succeeding. Both put their faith in the new generation, but Rayleigh actually succeeds in nurturing it and making it grow into something that could eventually make it's mark.
Rayleigh and WB are two similar characters in what they were trying to do. WB failed. Rayleigh didn't (so far).
By the end of the story, when (assuming of course) Luffy becomes the PK, will you consider the more important character to be:
1-the man who took the Luffy's brother under his wing, failed miserably, got killed and his crew disbanded, made some big waves and lost territory he was protecting
2-the man who took Luffy under his wing and gave him and his crew the opportunity to change the world.
Say what you will, but they are both characters, both old-timers who are trying for the same thing, and regardless of their screen time or how many epic poses they make they are equally important.
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can't we all just get along and be friends?
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@Sea:
I am educating, not arguing.
For free..you
re such a good person. But those who
re good in that what they`re doing should never do it for free. -
@Don:
For free..you
re such a good person. But those who
re good in that what they`re doing should never do it for free.Ho! And that's why I suck at translating? Ouch.
No, I don't take offense to this. I find it amusing.
Edit: Even more amusing is the thought of Oda packing up stuff for Pandaman. I ought to keep up with his inside-cover stories…
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Ha, I loved the Straw Hat reunion. And Brook's scene where he declared Luffy alive was epic.
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Ho! And that's why I suck at translating? Ouch.
No, I don't take offense at this. I find it amusing.
Edit: Even more amusing is the thought of Oda packing up stuff for Pandaman. I ought to keep up with his inside-cover stories…
Actually it look's like he is saying you are good and should be having people pay you to translate
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can't we all just get along and be friends?
Why does a simple argument have to result in chest bashing and territrial disputes over who is smarter?
Human nature?
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"Chopper, you've gotten so much fluffier!"
Hear that, Toei? There must now be a new Chopper plushie that is extra fluffy. If you don't make it so, fans will be very disappointed…
@Ryuunaga: Thanks, but I don't take funds for my hobbies. I'm charitable in that sense.
@UsoppSpell: It's also human nature to be forgiving! Spread the love around!
Listen to Brook's final performance! -
Chopper is now as fluffy as a furry wall..
Perfect partner to chill a bit. -
@Ryuunaga: Thanks, but I don't take funds for my hobbies. I'm charitable in that sense.
Understood was just saying wht it sounded like. I am the same as you in that matter I don't take funds either.
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@Don:
Chopper is now as fluffy as a furry wall..
Perfect partner to chill a bit.And light up a Jeffrey.
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@UsoppSpell: It's also human nature to be forgiving! Spread the love around!
Listen to Brook's final performance!I listened to it, and I learned that Strawhat Luffy wasn't dead, and also NEW WOOOOOORLD!!!!
Hmmm… don´t know how much good it did.
Double Post-ah
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"Chopper, you've gotten so much fluffier!"
Hear that, Toei? There must now be a new Chopper plushie that is extra fluffy. If you don't make it so, fans will be very disappointed…
He'll be so fluffy that we'll all die.
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@Tokoro:
He'll be so fluffy that we'll all die.
At least it'll be comfortable.
I really can't wait until new collectibles feature the post-timeskip characters. I'll try to find a way to get them if I can…
Edit: If Zoro ranks the crew by their arrivals, would that mean he's the new captain? And Luffy is last...
Edit 2: Forget that. I want to know the name of that lizard.
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So now you're saying that Rayleigh is a plot device? Aren't you being hard-headed?
Rayleigh is basically WB but actually succeeding. Both put their faith in the new generation, but Rayleigh actually succeeds in nurturing it and making it grow into something that could eventually make it's mark.
Rayleigh and WB are two similar characters in what they were trying to do. WB failed. Rayleigh didn't (so far).
By the end of the story, when (assuming of course) Luffy becomes the PK, will you consider the more important character to be:
1-the man who took the Luffy's brother under his wing, failed miserably, got killed and his crew disbanded, made some big waves and lost territory he was protecting
2-the man who took Luffy under his wing and gave him and his crew the opportunity to change the world.
Say what you will, but they are both characters, both old-timers who are trying for the same thing, and regardless of their screen time or how many epic poses they make they are equally important.
LOL. You can't distinguish between "important to the main character" and "important to the plot".
What Rayleigh did:
-Giving information about Roger.
-Saving Zoro and the crew.
-Coating the ship
-Training Luffy
-Coming up with the message and help the timeskip happen.
If those things were done by someone else, the story wouldn't change much.While, WB and Ace were exactly what the last arc was about. Their roles were irreplaceable. Their personality, build up are important as the core element that the conflict revolved around. Characters like these are what make the story of One Piece.
That's why they are important to the plot.
Their influence to Luffy and the world he lives in will continue to contribute in building the frame of the story later.
As a supporting character, Ace had great influence in building up Luffy's character. Not only he enhanced the plot, the "complexity" of his own conflict and his relationship with Luffy was a large part of the story, of what it's about
WB and Ace were very developed character. The screen time used to develop them was also a part of what made them important to the story.
They affect the frame of the plot. Rayleigh only enhances it.
Unless Rayleigh is going to be center of some stories, he can't be as important as those two. -
At least it'll be comfortable.
I really can't wait until new collectibles feature the post-timeskip characters. I'll try to find a way to get them if I can…
Edit: If Zoro ranks the crew by their arrivals, would that mean he's the new captain? And Luffy is last...
Edit 2: Forget that. I want to know the name of that lizard.
Pretty sure Zoro would reinterpret just about anything if it would lead to pissing off Sanji.
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I wonder what kind of music they will have Brook play in the anime. Do they have the balls to make him acctually play some nice soul?
1Z0VB-QfJzQ -
@Don:
I don
t see here a bounty raise at all. I mean after all those actions in the past his bounty raised only to 400mille..so it won
t increase right now just because he gathers some blood thirsty rookies around him.And also the rest of the crew isnt effected by that, because why would their bounty increase when their capt
n recruits new guys.
Also i doubt that Smoker or any allies of Luffy and his crew will fall for those fake-actions.
He knows Luffy well enough and is sure aware of the fact that many guys run around which try to impersonate famous guys.
And his other allies have to much trust in him(just look at Vivi getting the news of Luffy pairing up with Croc)..they will be glad that he`s back after two years without any informations.Eh. you're probably right about the bounties.
But I said I thought there was a chance, since Luffy is physically present, that his picture will appear in the paper, or in a Marine report, along with news (possibly, we'll see next chapter) of him using his rubber powers, thus proving who he is beyond a doubt. That would make people think about why he was there, and that is what I thought might affect his allies and Smoker. Of course they won't be fooled unless they have proof of his presence–but he is actually there, so misunderstandings are possible as a result.
Yeah starting again with the same actions which once defeated the crew is a rly well-closed circle(even without Kizaru, but for that they also don
t need a second time Rayleigh here). But i think Sentamarou won
t be defeated here..he will have later his role on the side of Vegapunk.
In my eyes he will more likely see how much stronger Luffy is now and will have later in the story his final fight against Luffy.I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I'm of the opinion he'll win this fight, even if he doesn't trounce Sentoumaru into the ground like he did Lucci, I believe it will be a real and decisive victory over him. Otherwise I can't see the reason for the TS and teh power-up, and this meeting of the two now. It's the perfect opportunity to show that the TS and powerup were worth the trouble and delay.
I would like to see here that they build a circle around Luffy in the midst of the fight against maybe the PX(cause the rookies should be no prob for Luffy) showing how they each are now strong enough to protect\fight for their capt
n. Would give a cool picture,where Luffy sees all his nakama around him and each ready to show their new power, ready to face everything for their capt
n.
(okay to much fanfic here….)LOL. I sorta like the symbolism of that idea–only thing is I doubt Luffy would allow it--he wants to be in the front lines, not hiding behind his crewmates' skirts--unless for some reason he's unconscious, like as TB.
BTW--did you see the post about Law's crewmates pasted from another site? LOL! Not looking too good for you in terms of your bet that Law beat the SHs to the NW, lol! But not confirmed yet, so I can wait. I'm patient.
Originally Posted by game2005
Someone on Narutofan Forums posted this:
http://i54.tinypic.com/33lm8b6.jpgThose two guys with hat are Law's crewmatesOh yeah, and I forget to mention another little silly thing. Along with Luffy and Chopper's silliness in not distinguishing the fakes from their crewmates, there is the fact that Shakky claims to have tapped the Marine's communications, yet she somehow hasn't heard them say they'll be where Rayleigh just told the SH's to put the Sunny–and I wanna know the rationale for the move of Sunny, as well.
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It took the Monster trio their strongest attacks in unison to defeat a single PX pre-timeskip. I wonder how it goes now?
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It took the Monster trio their strongest attacks in unison to defeat a single PX pre-timeskip. I wonder how it goes now?
I wonder if they'll even fight the PXs.
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As for the chapter, I don't fancy it… Too much fooling around with the Fakehats and their idiotic antics, they´re wasting space through 5 pages! Those miserable idiots! The actual chapter is only 18 pages long (17 if we put aside the cover)!!
This is the 600 chapter! I was kind of expecting a kick-ass SH crew not some stupid idiot morons ruining 5 pages of the chapter.
Well, that's my opinion on the week's chapter, as you can see I'm dissapointed, but I liked Franky's hair is back and Sanji-Zoro interaction...
P.S. I don't like the one-eyed Zoro nor Franky's arms but I totally loooove long-haired Nami!!! Damn she's hot!
EDIT: I liked the Brook moment too...
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I'm surprised by how strong the caribou brothers are. At least their bounties are very high, meaning together with other pirates they should actually be able to put up a fight against PXs.
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It took the Monster trio their strongest attacks in unison to defeat a single PX pre-timeskip. I wonder how it goes now?
:wassat: It was the complete crew that crushed PX-1.
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So are they going to sail by Luffy and have him jump on or what? Franky's controllable hair is awesome . So, they're starting over from where they were last time and this time they're going to succeed.
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Luffy. The fake 'stache. Roger. Don't you see the connection ?
! Roger had a fake moustache ! :blink:
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I wonder what kind of music they will have Brook play in the anime. Do they have the balls to make him acctually play some nice soul?
1Z0VB-QfJzQ0ROzGihgCj8
Brook works harder than anyone in the crew.
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So are they going to sail by Luffy and have him jump on or what? Franky's controllable hair is awesome . So, they're starting over from where they were last time and this time they're going to succeed.
No–they already said they have no idea where he is exactly, unless Rayleigh used haki somehow to tell where he is? There is the possibility that Ray and Shakky heard Luffy'd disembarked from Hammock via snail...
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@imp:
I'm surprised by how strong the caribou brothers are. At least their bounties are very high, meaning together with other pirates they should actually be able to put up a fight against PXs.
We haven't seen much from them. They might be strong, or their bounties might just be because they're psycopaths who like to target marines. Probably both, but we can't know yet. I doubt any number of fodder pirates will do much to a PX, they just don't have anything to actually HARM them.
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I wonder what kind of music they will have Brook play in the anime. Do they have the balls to make him acctually play some nice soul?
They damn well should. Again, Toei, don't you dare mess this new arc up when you get there! It's so far been only acceptable with the latest episodes.
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Oda was very clever in this chapter in showing how even though the SHs have developed, they're still the same in terms of characteristics.
Franky is climbing up my "favourite SH" list every chapter. HAIR CONTROL FFS !!
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:wassat: It was the complete crew that crushed PX-1.
Iva barely handled Kuma(bot), I wonder how Sanji will do. Also, did Iva have haki ? Is it possible that Sanji got haki if Iva didn't ?
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@Sea:
LOL. You can't distinguish between "important to the main character" and "important to the plot".
What Rayleigh did:
-Giving information about Roger.
-Saving Zoro and the crew.
-Coating the ship
-Training Luffy
-Coming up with the massage and help the timeskip happen.
If those things were done by someone else, the story wouldn't change much.While, WB and Ace were exactly what the last arc was about. Their roles were irreplaceable. Their personality, build up are important as the core element that the conflict revolved around. Characters like these are what make the story of One Piece.
Man, you can quit with the LOLing and condescention. You may have strong opinions, but you aren't making that many great points.
Last post, you classified Rayleigh as a plot device. I see you desisted from doing that.
And you are arguing what the importance of a character is by their build up and personality? I'm sorry but that's your bias and is pretty much a smarter way of saying that they are important because they left a bigger mark in your memory.
Sure, they were the focus of the last arc, and it was easily the most overwhelming arc in terms of the scope and the things we got to see. I think it's hard to put it into perspective. It´s just the first time that we've seen so many important people in one place, with such standing within the One Piece world.
This is what makes it difficult, I think, to understand that the most important aspect of the Story is what the main character does. And we can all agree that the focus of the story is on Luffy more than on anyone else.
You keep making the distinction "important to the plot" and "important to the main character". The plot revolves around the main character. There's not much of a distinction to make. Whenever you do make it it´s because the story is showing lots of parts that have nothing to do with the main character. And that is not the case with One Piece, where the main cast are the focus of the story, and we see the world through their eyes.
So yeah, I consider Rayleigh's influence to the story to be just as important, exactly because it´s important to the main characters, and thus to the plot.
"If those things were done by someone else, the story wouldn't change much."
The same could be said about pretty much any side character. This is bullshit. The reason that any author makes a character is because he needs it to play a certain role. Oda determined that Rayleigh was the character that was to play that role. That role is important. Make of that what you will.
Look I could expand upon this, but I think that it´s just about remembering that no single Arc, regardless of ramifications, is more important than the Strawhats' adventure. And I have a hard time imagining how a character could have altered that story more than Rayleigh did, even if you want to say that what altered it is a plot-device.
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I guess what luffy did at Impel Down got out
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I was eating soup when the chapter went online - I almost choked when Roger!Luffy appeared XD
Dear God, that was so awesome for some reason…Also, 100 pages of Franky's hair, I guess (without having read the spoiler topic or much of this one). Ah well, I thought that it would happen. Not exactly like this but at least I was fairly sure that he would somehow get his hair back sooner or later.
So no big surprise there, even though I must say I'm relieved to see it. -
By the way, how does everyone know about the SH taking down Enies Lobby and Impel Down, I thought the WG decided to keep it secret (the reason for the Buster Call) ???
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Iva barely handled Kuma(bot), I wonder how Sanji will do. Also, did Iva have haki ? Is it possible that Sanji got haki if Iva didn't ?
We never explicitely saw Iva calling out some attack using Haki, but I think that past a certain point of power everyone at least knows OF haki. Maybe Iva just isn't talented learning it, or maybe she used it to avoid attacks during the battle. We don't know yet.
I would be surprised if Sanji doesn't know some sort of haki. But whatever he does know will likely be at a lower level than Luffy or Zoro, because while he undoubtedly learned during the 2 years he didn't have anyone actually trying to directly teach him.
I only say "directly" teach him, because its quite possible that Iva set the whole thing up to make one of Luffy's crewmembers stronger, but also couldn't just teach him directly.
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I hope for a swift and utter crushing of the fake Strawhats in the next few chapters.
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Ah, Sanji and Zoro. They -never- change, do they? xD
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By the way, how does everyone know about the SH taking down Enies Lobby and Impel Down, I thought the WG decided to keep it secret (the reason for the Buster Call) ???
The Buster Call was a mistake, if I remember correctly.
I think even if they did try to cover it up, after he invaded Impel Down and fought at Marineford what he did at Eneis Lobby wouldn't really add much.
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Wow. Chopper is as big and more awesome looking than an average horse. Can't wait to see his other Points. Great 600th chapter. It covered a whole lot for a buildup chapter.
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I have a feeling that Franky's hair gimmick is just a hashed-out response by Oda to the criticism of his previous hairstyle.
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@I:
No–they already said they have no idea where he is exactly, unless Rayleigh used haki somehow to tell where he is? There is the possibility that Ray and Shakky heard Luffy'd disembarked from Hammock via snail...
I was thinking that Luffy would first meet up with Zoro and Sanji, who are currently heading toward GR17, where the Sunny is currently docked. In the case that the rest of the crew leaves for GR42 before they arrive (marines are coming), they'd have to turn back, and Luffy should be somewhere close. Plus, I want to see Luffy propelling Zoro, Sanji, and maybe Brook, onto the ship.
Well, I'm just reminded of the Loguetown sendoff, but without a "Dragon"-like character to send them off… and their next destination being similar but opposite of Skypeia.
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By the way, how does everyone know about the SH taking down Enies Lobby and Impel Down, I thought the WG decided to keep it secret (the reason for the Buster Call) ???
Enies Lobby wasn't kept a secret. That's why he jumped from 100m to 300m. The part about Enies Lobby that was kept a secret was the fact that he defeted Robo Lucci and that instead of a Buster Call destroying the island the marines claimed that it was Luffy that destroyed it.
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Man, you can quit with the LOLing and condescention. You may have strong opinions, but you aren't making that many great points.
Last post, you classified Rayleigh as a plot device. I see you desisted from doing that.
And you are arguing what the importance of a character is by their build up and personality? I'm sorry but that's your bias and is pretty much a smarter way of saying that they are important because they left a bigger mark in your memory.
Sure, they were the focus of the last arc, and it was easily the most overwhelming arc in terms of the scope and the things we got to see. I think it's hard to put it into perspective. It´s just the first time that we've seen so many important people in one place, with such standing within the One Piece world.
This is what makes it difficult, I think, to understand that the most important aspect of the Story is what the main character does. And we can all agree that the focus of the story is on Luffy more than on anyone else.
You keep making the distinction "important to the plot" and "important to the main character". The plot revolves around the main character. There's not much of a distinction to make. Whenever you do make it it´s because the story is showing lots of parts that have nothing to do with the main character. And that is not the case with One Piece, where the main cast are the focus of the story, and we see the world through their eyes.
So yeah, I consider Rayleigh's influence to the story to be just as important, exactly because it´s important to the main characters, and thus to the plot.
"If those things were done by someone else, the story wouldn't change much."
The same could be said about pretty much any side character. This is bullshit. The reason that any author makes a character is because he needs it to play a certain role. Oda determined that Rayleigh was the character that was to play that role. That role is important. Make of that what you will.
Look I could expand upon this, but I think that it´s just about remembering that no single Arc, regardless of ramifications, is more important than the Strawhats' adventure. And I have a hard time imagining how a character could have altered that story more than Rayleigh did, even if you want to say that what altered it is a plot-device.
Read my post again. I added many things.
Rayleigh only played role in how the story is played out. Ace and WB set up the frame. Rayleigh was never what the story is about. Ace and Whitebeard were. That's what defined their importance to the plot.And I have a hard time imagining how a character could have altered that story more than Rayleigh did
Not necessary to have a character did all what he did. Like a random ship-coater did his job, Jinbei came up with the message, Kuma intervened before Rayleigh came, Hancock taught Haki for Luffy, etc.
That is just how it's played out, not the frame.
The frame is the plot. -
Wow. With franky being a 'mecha' and brook a 'gentleman skeleton' rock star, I'm really curious now what kind of person/species/thing the next mugiwara crew member will be.
Those ca(/o)ribou brothers are friggin scary… especially the shovel guy with his eyes and mouth. He's got a cool 'hair' though lol
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Seems to me Wet Haired Caribou
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@Rafa:
Seems to me Wet Haired Caribou
Na, Wet Haired Caribou is a couple inches taller.
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I have a feeling that Franky's hair gimmick is just a hashed-out response by Oda to the criticism of his previous hairstyle.
Why? Franky already had a ton of other hair personas that pretty much got in his way. I think he further expanded it since the design with beverages may have been just a early prototype.
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I like how Caribou always says "Yeuuup"