Chapter 599, "9 Pirates" Discussion

andre

Find an example of it then, because I was going to say the same thing yet couldn't find an example to back it up. I'm starting to think I imagined it. The closest I could find was what he said to Kaku at Enies Lobby, right before he used Asura, but even that was partially a play on words. "Suffering is welcome on the path of carnage."

Actually, the one about luck was in the manga. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2487-10/one-piece/chapter-380.html I think leaving it to luck fits pretty well with the argument that Zoro isn't just now believing in fate. Along with the sword incident in Loguetown.

Katarinea

One may know many things, but only so many of them can be taught. Rayleigh taught Luffy all he could, but Rayleigh himself doesn't have Haoshoku Haki, and thus Luffy couldn't learn everything from him. I think that Luffy, at this point, could beat a Vice Admiral with a fair amount of ease. While he may not be able to beat an Admiral at this point, he could at least bring it to a stalemate, and with more expertise fighting against other Haki/Logia users, he would definitely be able to win.

Zoro, I believe, can use Haki – it would make sense. Sanji, perhaps. I would like to see it, but it is improbable. I don't think any of the other crew members would have learned it -- not that they're too dumb, they just would have improved in other ways. (now watch, Oda will have Usopp be a Haki user, or something, just because stuff never goes the way it does in my head)

brennen.exe

@andre:

An example is when he got his sword in Loguetown and threw it in the air.

That's not an example. That he believes in luck is one thing; the way he speaks is another thing entirely. In any case, I'm on your side, I just can't think of a good example to back it up. Edit: Same applies to the Enies Lobby scene. It's one thing to casually talk about luck, and another to refer to luck, causality, karma, fate, etc in a poetic or predetermined manner.

@rubia_ryu:

That line he said on the train as it flew was also in the manga. Really, why do people not like Zoro's poetic side when he long had it? It doesn't detract from his… Zoro-ness.

Perhaps you can think of an example, then?

DaeJi

@choperman:

I think he's talking about the snake sisters

so does anyone else not get CoA I mean if it protects you like a sheet of armor, can it protect you from bullets and shields, and if so why didn't WB use it, because he can beast it out?

To date we have never seen anyone use CoA to just wrap themselves in a Haki suit of armor that repelled attacks. They simply blocked like you would normally do in a fight, and used CoA to strengthen the block. Whitebeard never blocked, so he couldn't use CoA to protect himself.

rubia_ryu

@brennen.exe:

Perhaps you can think of an example, then?

Would I need to?

Edit: Fine, but it'll take me a while.

isrnick

@Smoker:

COQ argument and why Whitebeard didn't use it… COQ as stated by Rayleigh varies in power depending on the 'Will/Belief' of the user. Which means there is a very good chance that Whitebeards COQ was out of range of the execution platform... Luffy was far closer the the execution platform and thus his COQ was in ranged when he used it.

Here is Cnet's translation of that part of chapter 569:

"Sengoku: If you wish to see the future, then let me show it to you now! // Whitebeard!! // Do it!!!
Pirates: ACE~~~~~!!!
Whitebeard: Useless. Do you truly believe that I cannot stop your… / Unghh!! / !!!
Sengoku: Observe, Whitebeard!!!
Whitebeard: (No...!!!) // Ungh!!!
Luffy: STOOOOO~~~~~~~~~OOOOPPP!!!!
Everyone: ?!! // ...............!!!"

Source: http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/18765

Whitebeard was about to use CoC, he even kind of announced that he would use it when he despised Sengoku for believing he wouldn't be able to stop the executioners from killing Ace, but he failed to do so because of his disease, who kicked in at the exact moment he was gonna use it.

And then Luffy used it instead.

NANLIT

If anyone doubts Luffy's new bounty of 400 million, Fluffy said this in front of a crowd of people and no one thought about how he was wrong. Fluffy wouldn't be stupid enough to say such a mistake that people could easily refute.

Glowstuff

@rubia_ryu:

Would I need to?

Edit: Fine, but it'll take me a while.

Don't know if this counts, but I know someone posted it earlier.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v28/c259/12.html

Outerspec

@Chicken:

So it doesn't really support your theory?

How so? I don't really know when Blackbeard first found out about Luffy's Haki, I can only guess, but that doesn't mean Luffy didn't hit Blackbeard with some during their confrontation in Impel Down.

! Knowing when Blackbeard found out about Luffy's Haki and Luffy subconsciously using some in their fight are two separate cases.

If you're talking about the theory of Blackbeard sensing Luffy as a potential Haki user when they first met at the pub I see no other explanation. Haki is basically spirit and it can be emitted from the body. By Impel Down Blackbeard knew of Luffy's Haki because he said it had "improved", not awakened, so he knew he could already use it. Technically everyone is a potential Haki user. Anyway, they didn't meet again in between Jaya and Impel Down so by Jaya Blackbeard must have known of Luffy's Haki ability.

rubia_ryu

@Glowstuff:

Don't know if this counts, but I know someone posted it earlier.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v28/c259/12.html

I'm trying to find how far back the first philosophical line he said was.

For some odd reason, mangashare seems to be pretty slow…

Edit: I noticed something from his very first appearance.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2044-9/one-piece/chapter-3.html
That doesn't seem like him at all. What. Well, it's to set up what comes after, I suppose.

baby-boo

This post is deleted!

baby-boo

gahhh…

It's not like Zoro is going to be poetic all the time...! Just to show of the new him. It's not like he is going to be poetic about drinking ale or beer, whatever they drink. Or maybe that's the same thingø

andre

@baby-boo:

gahhh…

It's not like Zoro is going to be poetic all the time...! Just to show of the new him. It's not like he is going to be poetic about drinking ale or beer, whatever they drink. Or maybe that's the same thingø

16 characters of sake!

leo.mysterio

I'm back!! What is the discussion now? (Yeah, I'm Lazy.)

rubia_ryu

@baby-boo:

gahhh…

It's not like Zoro is going to be poetic all the time...! Just to show of the new him. It's not like he is going to be poetic about drinking ale or beer, whatever they drink. Or maybe that's the same thingø

It's NOT new. Exactly why I'm searching through the old chapters again. And he can still be poetic while he's drunk; it just might not make as much sense.

@leo.mysterio:

I'm back!! What is the discussion now? (Yeah, I'm Lazy.)

Here, have some sake.

Urouge

@M.Hicks:

The "strongest man in the world" may be true, but he was a shadow of the man that he used to be. Age and illness pulled him down to the place where he was killed.

In his prime, Whitebeard would probably have done FAR more than just temporarily hurt and inconvenience both Akainu and Blackbeard.

Say what you want about Whitebeard. Akainu was still the man who faced off against a team of all of the division commanders plus crocodile all by himself. He even seemed to be winning that fight.

@Saturnchild:

Well not really. Whitebeard pretty much beat the crap out Akainu with barely any effort when he got angry.

He snuck up behind him and sucker punched him. The only other shot he ever managed to land cost him half his face.

And while Akainu did get a few good shots in Whitebeard was already previously injured. At top form I don't think any of the admirals stood a chance one on one.

Again, say what you want about Whitebeard. Akainu did not stop there. The odds he faced after Whitebeard's death should be borderline impossible for just about anyone, especially after taking Whitebeard's punishment.

baby-boo

@rubia_ryu:

It's NOT new. Exactly why I'm searching through the old chapters again. And he can still be poetic while he's drunk; it just might not make as much sense.

I do recall him being like that before some enemy, just don't remember who.

rubia_ryu

@rubia_ryu:

I'm trying to find how far back the first philosophical line he said was.

Ah, figures. One of his most famous lines is, "A scar on the back is a swordsman's shame." He first says that to Mihawk when they first meet.

Previously, he'd talk about his dreams, then win the fight; but I don't count that as so poetic.

Edit: I really want to see Zoro act poetic if he does one time get really drunk.

DEE JAY

By the way guys, I dunno if you noticed that or/and if someone already noticed the same thing like me

Sanji doesn't hide zoro's bounty, its oda whos hidin it cuz it has a new poster taken while fight against Px-1&0 if you remember, he was exhauted/tired we can see it thru his eyes..

same thing when the fake captain luffy says hes a 400 million berry pirate

it must be something like 450 million berry or 499 (like Kuma's "99" at teh end )

I am pretty sure that chopper's bounty will be something like 100 million minimum cuz we saw Kuma tryin to reconize the thing be he couldn't. we saw only ??? ???

what do you think?

Zarnikon

@DEE:

By the way guys, I dunno if you noticed that or/and if someone already noticed the same thing like me

Sanji doesn't hide zoro's bounty, its oda whos hidin it cuz it has a new poster taken while fight against Px-1&0 if you remember, he was exhauted/tired we can see it thru his eyes..

same thing when the fake captain luffy says hes a 400 million berry pirate

it must be something like 450 million berry or 499 (like Kuma's "99" at teh end )

I am pretty sure that chopper's bounty will be something like 100 million minimum cuz we saw Kuma tryin to reconize the thing be he couldn't. we saw only ??? ???

what do you think?

Check the old poster, zoro has exactly the same pose and the same background and all => it's still the old one

dirt monkey AL

Pretty sure Sanji's hiding the words on Zoro's bounty, else, yanno, a regular Joe like the fisherman might contact Marines that Zoro, one of Straw Hat's crew, is running loose on the island again.

DEE JAY

hmm, Okay, but if Luffy got a new bounty, I except all the staff to have some new bounties even if they didn't participate @ war.. Everyone knows they're luffy crew and they're implicated @ SA incident with the celestical dragons

Outerspec

Here's some poeticness from Zoro I think.

! Believe…in the heart. Oh yeah, he went there.

dirt monkey AL

@DEE:

hmm, Okay, but if Luffy got a new bounty, I except all the staff to have some new bounties even if they didn't participate @ war.. Everyone knows they're luffy crew and they're implicated @ SA incident with the celestical dragons

I'll give you that, but really, it'd be a dumb idea to show that your buddy/"that guy you've seen before" is a wanted man.

DEE JAY

@dirt:

I'll give you that, but really, it'd be a dumb idea to show that your buddy/"that guy you've seen before" is a wanted man.

Huh? I didn't understand a thing (: make it clear.

dirt monkey AL

@DEE:

Huh? I didn't understand a thing (: make it clear.

Basically, sure, there's a chance his bounty was upped since Luffy's was.

Thatguy23--

I'm not sure if someone has said this already or not but apparently Luffy is still Hesitant about killing people. in the panel that Fluffy shot at Luffy if Luffy had decided not to use Haki to dodge, The bullet woulda bounced right back shooting Fluffy right in the face. and that would have been the end of the whole Fake strawhat crap.

Pacer

@Outerspec:

How so? I don't really know when Blackbeard first found out about Luffy's Haki, I can only guess, but that doesn't mean Luffy didn't hit Blackbeard with some during their confrontation in Impel Down.

it was just a powerful punch. if we go by "that doesn't mean luffy didn't use haki….", we could say that everytime he threw a punch that hurt a guy, it was POSSIBLY imbued with haki. CoC is unleashed through focus determination and the strength or soul or w/e, whereas CoO and CoA is awakened to training, something that wasn't done by luffy and crew, except for when they were cloes to death and their will to live brought it out, but otherwise it was never very often, as well as their general strength training contributed to using CoO and CoA in those special occasions

DEE JAY

@dirt:

Basically, sure, there's a chance his bounty was upped since Luffy's was.

Gotcha, Thanks for wasting your time and explaining this once again.

Now I understand, Excuse me.. the truth is, i am a lil bit stoned :ninja:

Cannot wait for the next chapter. One Piece is the unique occupation I have right now when i'm next to the computer.. when theres no chapter, Its like when you know u gotta spend a whole week @ an island without ciggs lol

cheers ~ & good night, i'm headin to bed!

Retsudo

I see the future fights going like this:

Monster Trio VS Sentoumaru

Mid Trio VS Kumabot

Weak Trio VS Kumabot

3 opponents for the 3 Strawhat tiers. Pretty obvious as far as I can see.

Pacer

@Thatguy23--:

I'm not sure if someone has said this already or not but apparently Luffy is still Hesitant about killing people. in the panel that Fluffy shot at Luffy if Luffy had decided not to use Haki to dodge, The bullet woulda bounced right back shooting Fluffy right in the face. and that would have been the end of the whole Fake strawhat crap.

this was already given an explanation. if he engaged and otherwise repelled the bullet, he not only would have revealed he was a DF user, but also the fact that someone might recognize his power and match him up as luffy, which he was trying to avoid so that they wouldn't have to fight their way to go to fishman island. ALSO assuming that the bullet didnt' kill Fluffy, the rest of the crew probably would have followed ihm, causing distress, and again possibly cause trouble for when they try to leave fishman island.

leo.mysterio

@Retsudo:

I see the future fights going like this:

Monster Trio VS Sentoumaru

Mid Trio VS Kumabot

Weak Trio VS Kumabot

3 opponents for the 3 Strawhat tiers.

That make me wonder if we are having changes in the Weak Trio, if Oda don't go by that SBS, maybe it can be like this:
.
Nami
Chopper
Brook

Outerspec

@Pacer:

it was just a powerful punch. if we go by "that doesn't mean luffy didn't use haki….", we could say that everytime he threw a punch that hurt a guy, it was POSSIBLY imbued with haki. CoC is unleashed through focus determination and the strength or soul or w/e, whereas CoO and CoA is awakened to training, something that wasn't done by luffy and crew, except for when they were cloes to death and their will to live brought it out, but otherwise it was never very often, as well as their general strength training contributed to using CoO and CoA in those special occasions

You really want to go down that route? "We could say…" Sure, you could say but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying in this specific case where Blackbeard blatantly said Luffy's Haki has improved in connection to his strength that Luffy did display some Haki. Lol, what's the point of Blackbeard even mentioning Haki if it had nothing to do with the situation?

And CoC and CoO does not have to be awakened through training or when someone is close to death. Unless you count Coby being punched in the face as training and he was nowhere near close to death then. Also, in what special occasions did Luffy and crew use CoO and CoA?

Brizan

People are forgetting that brook is like on grove 18, while Robin and Franky are on grove 14 while sentomaru is going to groves 60-65 where chopper, nami, usopp, luffy, zoro and sanji, only those six will be in the fight.

Retsudo

For some reason I doubt that the Mid Trio will be left out of the big fight.

Brizan

They are really far away from the fight and the crew is trying to avoid conflict, also I think the mid and weak trio have merged I mean what was the point of the time skip? also Brook pretty much solely focused on music while a lot of franky's stuff is to the ship and Robin probably learned more tactical stuff and more about islands around the world. Usopp's training was solely fighting and not only sniping, the only other people with just fighting based training are luffy and zoro.

imp

@brennen.exe:

You are missing the point. You wouldn't agree with me, since you disagreed with the entirety of my point. It's like saying you would agree that peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are good, if only you liked peanut butter and jelly. I was assuming you simply didn't understand my point, so I attempted to clarify.

Calm down, breathe. You had a point, I said "I would agree if it wasn't that". That means that indeed I disagree with your point because I have an objection. Duh.

Your point was that haki training is to prepare Luffy for the New World, and thus that there will be no more major upgrade. I agree that if this didn't prepare Luffy for known "types" of dangers (eg logia, super-strong people using haki), that would be stupid. But maybe he'll find something completely different, that neither haki nor bruteforce can do much against. Neither you nor anyone knows what Luffy might find in the New World. Maybe haki is all that will be needed, along with a few new moves. But maybe not.

There's 10 years to go.

Halfmetal-lich

I love how Sentomaru will be Luffy's punching bag and get owned out of his fucking mind.

onemoment

@Retsudo:

I see the future fights going like this:

Monster Trio VS Sentoumaru

Mid Trio VS Kumabot

Weak Trio VS Kumabot

3 opponents for the 3 Strawhat tiers. Pretty obvious as far as I can see.

I think you're underestimating the Strawhats a bit.

Pacer

@Outerspec:

You really want to go down that route? "We could say…" Sure, you could say but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying in this specific case where Blackbeard blatantly said Luffy's Haki has improved in connection to his strength that Luffy did display some Haki. Lol, what's the point of Blackbeard even mentioning Haki if it had nothing to do with the situation?

And CoC and CoO does not have to be awakened through training or when someone is close to death. Unless you count Coby being punched in the face as training and he was nowhere near close to death then. Also, in what special occasions did Luffy and crew use CoO and CoA?

u have to answer the question of when did he ever see luffy perform haki then. Blackbeard understood the fact that Luffy was iron-tight, as well as BB being experienced on the topic of haki. the fact that mastering/learning haki /CoC is something done by the strenght of will, which BB saw in him, that only led BB to presume that luffy understood haki too, however we know that not until rayleigh explained what haki was that luffy connected the dots. You forget that haki itself is a general term, which then splits up into several factions. Haki is found in ALL living beings, and BB certianly had not seen once where luffy used haki in any form. the only logical explaination is that Blackbeard is SPECIAL, such as Gol D. Roger being able to hear all things type of thing.

and a situation we can all agree using CoA was Zoro dodging rocks when vsing against Das Bones

Unshaken Faith

@Brizan:

People are forgetting that brook is like on grove 18, while Robin and Franky are on grove 14 while sentomaru is going to groves 60-65 where chopper, nami, usopp, luffy, zoro and sanji, only those six will be in the fight.

It's never good to base your points on assumptions alone. Brook is actually in grove 33. Given the fact that Fake Strawhats are gathering in grove 46, marines are now adding troops from grove 40 to 44 [As they're unaware these are impostors], thus creating a perimeter preventing any of the SH members to sneak away.

There's no point for Sentomoru to go in grove 60 when the "strawhats" his main goal, are gathering in grove 46. Rather, he'll jump right into the action, thus hoping to destroy the Strawhat crew once and for all before they become trouble.

There's now 2 options left, either the the impostors are indirectly used as bait to allow the real SH to safely escape into Fishman island. Or Oda manages to create complete chaos. I'm good with either.

Brizan

Sorry i mixed the groves around i meant 40-46, and it is not only assumption I just did not have the chapter to check.

baby-boo

@Retsudo:

I see the future fights going like this:

Monster Trio VS Sentoumaru

Mid Trio VS Kumabot

Weak Trio VS Kumabot

3 opponents for the 3 Strawhat tiers. Pretty obvious as far as I can see.

Monster trio fighting against Sentoumaru? I don't know what stenght level Sentoumaru is, like vice admiral or lower, but I think that would just be overkill.

Wonder if Zoro can just cut the bots in half in the waist O_o

Silent K

@Unshaken:

It's never good to base your points on assumptions alone. Brook is actually in grove 33. Given the fact that Strawhats are gathering in grove 46, marines are now adding troops from grove 40 to 44, thus creating a perimeter preventing any of the SH members to sneak away.

There's no point for Sentomoru to go in grove 60 when the "strawhats" his main goal [As he's unaware they're impostors], are gathering in grove 46. Rather, he'll jump right into the action, thus hoping to destroy the Strawhat crew once and for all before they become trouble.

I agree, and besides, who says Usopp, Nami and Luffy are still in the perimeter when we don't even know how much time has passed between the fakes getting knocked out and getting back up again.
They could just as well be on the other side of the island by now…

Smoker the White Hunter · Supporter of Gomu Gomu no Sonic Boom - 10/2/2010

Also Robin & Franky are in Grove #17 according to the Mangastream translation…

PS: @Chef:

aye so guys i was reading the first chapter of One Piece, and I come across an idea should have definitely happened in this chapter

When Fake Luffy points his gun at Luffy, Luffy should've remarked calmly "Your putting your life on the line when you point that at me" then Fake Luffy would shoot, miss. and faint from Luffy's Haki.

Didn't happen i know, but it definetly would have gave me some chills and excitement if it did, what you guys think?

This would have been awesome had it happened but seeing as how Luffy couldn't start a ruckus it wasn't exactly an opportune time for that line… Maybe after the ruckus is already underway we may see something like that... Or one of the fakes point a gun at his crew... And Zoro cuts em down... probably wishful thinking fake SH are about to get snuffed out...

Pacer

Nami is taking her cloths off with Nico to have hot sex while covered with oil from the groves at GROVE 46 you heard it here first folks.

Aohige_AP

I hope Caliboo and Coriboo bros will be decent fighters.
I don't want to see two 200mil bounties (or close to it) treated aas fodders.

leo.mysterio

@Aohige_AP:

I hope Caliboo and Coriboo bros will be decent fighters.
I don't want to see two 200mil bounties (or close to it) treated aas fodders.

Maybe them will be there just to show the PXs new power. Or the PXs are there to show the power of the brothers. Or none. :ninja:

Retsudo

@Brizan:

They are really far away from the fight and the crew is trying to avoid conflict,

Well conflict has found them

also I think the mid and weak trio have merged I mean what was the point of the time skip?

To let the world evolve after the war and let the Strawhats grow. Don't know where you got the idea that the Trios would merge.

also Brook pretty much solely focused on music while a lot of franky's stuff is to the ship and Robin probably learned more tactical stuff and more about islands around the world. Usopp's training was solely fighting and not only sniping, the only other people with just fighting based training are luffy and zoro.

No. All of the Strawhats got stronger by a significant amount over the years. Robin for example said she did want to become stronger.

Hence the timeskip.

Katarinea

@Aohige_AP:

I hope Caliboo and Coriboo bros will be decent fighters.
I don't want to see two 200mil bounties (or close to it) treated aas fodders.

The way that Fluffy described the two, their bounties are only high because they killed many Marines, and there's probably a good amount of civilians mixed in there. Yes, they have made it to this point in the Grand Line, but some routes are less dangerous than others, and our lovely Mugiwaras faced some very unique challenges that they would not have.

Are these brothers strong? Probably, but only on the level of someone from one of the Blues, not truly Grand Line strong. Which, in my mind, means they're gonna get stomped. Sorry guys, no way you're gonna survive the real Straw Hats, or the Pacifista, or even the stronger fodder Marines. You're about to enter the New World now.