Chapter 599, "9 Pirates" Discussion

imp

if we are talking about haki, yes about intelligence no

It has not been established that Luffy is "a genius" in terms of haki, much less that the admirals are idiots (in terms of haki). Luffy showed a gift, but he needed 18 months to learn the basics from Rayleigh, so it's not as if he completely rushed through it with ease. Meanwhile, the admirals all obviously know more than the basics.

@brennen.exe:

Well then you aren't really agreeing with me, since that misses the point completely.

I wrote I "would" agree, from which you can conclude there is some reason for me to disagree.
@brennen.exe:

The purpose of the time-skip, for the crew, was because they weren't prepared for the New World; Rayleigh's words were, "do you want to repeat that?" referring to the incident at Saboady. If Luffy– having devoted an entire two years to pursuing that same goal, with the perfect teacher and circumstances no less-- if he runs into anything from this point on that requires him to reflect on his own powerlessness and seek more power in turn, then the time-skip would have failed to do exactly what it set out to do. Of course as he is now he needs to get stronger, arguably 'a lot' stronger, but he should already have that base for which his steady growth will stand on. Think East Blue.

They are prepared against the things they can expect (strong logias, haki users). But there may be unexpected stuff, and you can't really prepare against that, no matter how much time you spend training. That's the very nature of unexpected stuff.

If they aren't powerless against the expected stuff (eg. haki, logias), then the training wasn't useless.

I'm not even saying there will necessarily be such complications. I'm just open to the possibility, whereas you claim it's impossible. Why so? Rayleigh does not necessarily know everything about the new world.

Chef Nate

aye so guys i was reading the first chapter of One Piece, and I come across an idea should have definitely happened in this chapter

When Fake Luffy points his gun at Luffy, Luffy should've remarked calmly "Your putting your life on the line when you point that at me" then Fake Luffy would shoot, miss. and faint from Luffy's Haki.

Didn't happen i know, but it definetly would have gave me some chills and excitement if it did, what you guys think?

semil

@brennen.exe:

Well then you aren't really agreeing with me, since that misses the point completely. The purpose of the time-skip, for the crew, was because they weren't prepared for the New World; Rayleigh's words were, "do you want to repeat that?" referring to the incident at Saboady. If Luffy– having devoted an entire two years to pursuing that same goal, with the perfect teacher and circumstances no less-- if he runs into anything from this point on that requires him to reflect on his own powerlessness and seek more power in turn, then the time-skip would have failed to do exactly what it set out to do. Of course as he is now he needs to get stronger, arguably 'a lot' stronger, but he should already have that base for which his steady growth will stand on. Think East Blue.

I understand where you come from, but at the same time when thinking about the end of the series I have to assume it will be suitably epic. It won't be epic if Luffy already has the tools to defeat whoever's there. So while I agree that they shouldn't come up against enemies they're vastly unprepared for, I do think that we're missing something. Maybe not some new ability, but some complication to make it dramatic.

Saturnchild

@Urouge:

I'd say he should be able to slow down an admiral, and even be a small bit of a threat to them. I would not say he should be able to defeat an admiral, though. Akainu showed us that they can fight in the same class as the strongest man in the world. There's too much story left for Luffy to be that strong already.

Well not really. Whitebeard pretty much beat the crap out Akainu with barely any effort when he got angry. And while Akainu did get a few good shots in Whitebeard was already previously injured. At top form I don't think any of the admirals stood a chance one on one.

But yeah I agree with you. Being able to defeat an admiral would be a bit premature. But being able to slow him down enought to get away well that's the least I expect

I agree with this statement also. Considering that Rayleigh managed to slow down Kizaru two years ago, it seems pointless if Luffy, who has about the same mastery of Haki as Rayleigh after his training (as well as the 6 months on his own), could not keep his own ground against an Admiral. Whether Luffy can actually beat an Admiral at this point is another question, however he is sure to do so within the coming arcs, most likely as an end-of-saga boss.

Well I doubt he is at Rayleigh level but he doesn't need to be. All he needs is to be able to have enough control over his Haki to be able to be able to keep up with logias for a little while

The way I see it if an Admiral is sent to the island the two biggest threats would be Akainu and Kizaru(well actually Aokiji would be the biggest threat to Luffy but I doubt Oda would use him). And Haki would help him keep up with both of them long enough to get under the sea and escape. He seems smarter then before and I doubt he would wish to lose his crew again.

Luffy is strong now, he can probably hold his own against the supernovas and anything lower then admiral, but he still can't touch BB or Akainu

Actually he already managed to land quite a nice punch on BB in Impel Down

brennen.exe

@Sage:

First off…I want it to be clear that I believe Luffy is NOT capable of beating everyone which is why I said what I said in that post you quoted and replied to.

What you responded to was "Why do people think Luffy is even close to an Admiral's level?" My point, following that line of discussion, was that if Luffy wasn't close to an Admiral's level, then he would need significant growth before the end of the series, which detracts from his having devoted two entire years to training. It would be like Naruto. Consider Luffy's Gear 2nd and 3rd: Luffy faces Crocodile, rises to the challenge, and surpasses his opponent. Shortly thereafter he runs into Aokiji and, realizing how small he is, seeks more power to protect. Using the significant boost he acquired, he barely defeats Lucci, who would have otherwise been leaps and bounds stronger than him. Growth that comes gradually from experience isn't significant without time, so if Luffy isn't even close to an Admiral's level, how do you propose he reaches that level by the end of the series unless he has another (significant) boost in power?

Rubber Fist Luffy

@Chef:

aye so guys i was reading the first chapter of One Piece, and I come across an idea should have definitely happened in this chapter

When Fake Luffy points his gun at Luffy, Luffy should've remarked calmly "Your putting your life on the line when you point that at me" then Fake Luffy would shoot, miss. and faint from Luffy's Haki.

Didn't happen i know, but it definetly would have gave me some chills and excitement if it did, what you guys think?

I personally think it would be too Naruto-ish.

Igosuki

@Rubber:

I personally think it would be too Naruto-ish.

Yeah I prefer the version where the fakes still shiver minutes after receiving the blast. That made me jump on my chair open my mouth wide and wiggle my tongue and shout yohohoho like no tomorrow.

Hawkolf

@Rubber:

I personally think it would be too Naruto-ish.

Yup. I would prefer "You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

Igosuki

Adding this, Luffy already manifested all three forms of Haki before coming to Amazon Lily in one form or another.
Color of Observation : Octopus against Ener
Color of the Conqueror : Motobaro, Impel Down Wolves, Amazon Lily Execution Platform, Marineford battlefield.
Color of Armor : Blackbeard (impel down), Magellan (impel down).

As for Whitebeard and color of the conqueror in general well, having it does not mean that you can use it. As far as we know, Whitebeard, Shanks, Gold Roger, Railey, Ace, Garp, Dragon, Hancock and Luffy have it.
Not all of them have mastered it, and if you look at that least, that makes Luffy pretty exceptional…
I think that Mihawk and Doflamingo have it.
I think that Zoro has it too, and in time will be able to use it on exceptionnal occasions. But ultimately the masters of conqueror are only Roger, Railey and Shanks so if Luffy masters it that makes him imba.

brennen.exe

@imp:

I wrote I "would" agree, from which you can conclude there is some reason for me to disagree.

You are missing the point. You wouldn't agree with me, since you disagreed with the entirety of my point. It's like saying you would agree that peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are good, if only you liked peanut butter and jelly. I was assuming you simply didn't understand my point, so I attempted to clarify.

@imp:

They are prepared against the things they can expect, but there may be unexpected stuff you can't really prepare against no matter how much time you spend training. That's the very nature of unexpected stuff. I'm not even saying there will necessarily be such complications. I'm just open to the possibility, whereas you claim it's impossible. Why so? Rayleigh does not necessarily know everything about the new world.

@semil:

I understand where you come from, but at the same time when thinking about the end of the series I have to assume it will be suitably epic. It won't be epic if Luffy already has the tools to defeat whoever's there. So while I agree that they shouldn't come up against enemies they're vastly unprepared for, I do think that we're missing something. Maybe not some new ability, but some complication to make it dramatic.

I gave you an example, East Blue, but more accurately it would follow all the way to Skypiea. Luffy definitely gained some speed, skill, and strength during that portion of the series, but nothing was significant. He gained experience, having fought a multitude of enemies, but there was hardly any difference between the Luffy that fought Alvida and the Luffy that fought Enel. If you jump from one to the other, it may appear extreme, but if you look at the actual path he took, he simply took on what was in front of him and continued to rise to the challenge. Was he really faster or stronger than when he fought Arlong or Krieg? By how much? His fight with Croc and Enel showed neither a leap in strength nor a leap in speed; experience and gradual growth only, along with what you two refer to as 'something unexpected' or 'some complication' to make things interesting. That's what I am looking at. An Admiral's power should not be all that far from where Luffy is now, so experience should allow Luffy to continue to bridge whatever gap is there, while unexpected complications add to the intrigue and difficulty of the battles we experience from here on out. Devil Fruits are a perfect wrench to throw into the gears, for example, without requiring Luffy to grow at all in power.

Outerspec

@Igosuki:

Adding this, Luffy already manifested all three forms of Haki before coming to Amazon Lily in one form or another.
Color of Observation : Octopus against Ener
Color of the Conqueror : Motobaro, Impel Down Wolves, Amazon Lily Execution Platform, Marineford battlefield.
Color of Armor : Blackbeard (impel down), Magellan (impel down).

Hmm….Magellan isn't a Logia type so Luffy hitting him was....Luffy just physically hitting him.

semil

@Igosuki:

Adding this, Luffy already manifested all three forms of Haki before coming to Amazon Lily in one form or another.
Color of Observation : Octopus against Ener
Color of the Conqueror : Motobaro, Impel Down Wolves, Amazon Lily Execution Platform, Marineford battlefield.
Color of Armor : Blackbeard (impel down), Magellan (impel down).

As for Whitebeard and color of the conqueror in general well, having it does not mean that you can use it. As far as we know, Whitebeard, Shanks, Gold Roger, Railey, Ace, Garp, Dragon, Hancock and Luffy have it.
Not all of them have mastered it, and if you look at that least, that makes Luffy pretty exceptional…
I think that Mihawk and Doflamingo have it.
I think that Zoro has it too, and in time will be able to use it on exceptionnal occasions. But ultimately the masters of conqueror are only Roger, Railey and Shanks so if Luffy masters it that makes him imba.

I would disagree with the CoO. He hit Enel because Enel couldn't use mantra. Luffy wasn't trying to hit him, just mindlessly bouncing attacks everywhere. So there's no intent to read.

Igosuki

@Outerspec:

Hmm….Magellan isn't a Logia type so Luffy hitting him was....Luffy just physically hitting him.

Yes, Luffy also hit Smoker and Ace in Alabasta, he didn't use haki then, did he ?
Against a non logia creature CoA allows you to hit harder, that's what I meant ;)
My theory is that Luffy was using CoA naturally in his techniques more and more without noticing.
Which is just like Zoro imbuing CoA Haki in his swords.
Against Daz Bones Zoro used both CoA and CoO and I predict he will master both, so will Sanji.
The only difference between Zoro and Sanji will be that Zoro can sometimes trigger CoC and will be a bit stronger in pure sense.

Of course it's only my opinion, but I like to discuss it :)

Maki707

@Igosuki:

Adding this, Luffy already manifested all three forms of Haki before coming to Amazon Lily in one form or another.
Color of Observation : Octopus against Ener
Color of the Conqueror : Motobaro, Impel Down Wolves, Amazon Lily Execution Platform, Marineford battlefield.
Color of Armor : Blackbeard (impel down), Magellan (impel down).

Haha not meaning to kick you when your down but he did'nt use Haki to hit BB either. He does'nt need to even though BB is a logia,since he can't avoid hits like the other logias

Pacer

@Zarnikon:

Chapter 570 page 2 is where Luffy used it and not WB
And chapter 569, he just yelled i'm whitebeard and punched them.

they said the old man has =.=

and i dont necessarily agree with the whole thing about luffy being brilliant at haki. i think its just cause he got a teacher who understands it so well, as well as the fact that he has used one of the 3 forms of haki. most people probably take a long time since they dont have a teacher

Igosuki

@semil:

I would disagree with the CoO. He hit Enel because Enel couldn't use mantra. Luffy wasn't trying to hit him, just mindlessly bouncing attacks everywhere. So there's no intent to read.

Nope, by emptying his mind he was able to only concentrate on the attacks and he naturally used CoO, well I'll never be able to prove it. But clearly Conqueror was not the only Haki Luffy showed before meeting Rayleigh.

@Maki707:

Haha not meaning to kick you when your down but he did'nt use Haki to hit BB either. He does'nt need to even though BB is a logia,since he can't avoid hits like the other logias

Dude like I said, using CoA against logia is not the only point of that Haki…

Chicken

The retrospective addition of haki to every fight the strawhats have had is kind of dumb.

Igosuki

@Chicken:

The retrospective addition of haki to every fight the strawhats have had is kind of dumb.

strawhats with and s ? every fight ?
Nope, it's just Sanji (Diable Jambe), Zoro and Luffy (in various cases)

Or you think that Haki just appeared on Luffy at Amazon Lily one of a sudden ? Don't make me laugh. Black beard also said that Luffy's Haki had IMPROVED.
Anyway don't bother answering to me if you're going to say the straw hats are s*** because i'm a die hard fanboy, sorry.

M.Hicks

And I don't know…Luffy dragging around that giant ball of gold for as long as he did was some incredible physical training....

GetsugaZoro

@Igosuki:

Adding this, Luffy already manifested all three forms of Haki before coming to Amazon Lily in one form or another.
Color of Observation : Octopus against Ener
Color of the Conqueror : Motobaro, Impel Down Wolves, Amazon Lily Execution Platform, Marineford battlefield.
Color of Armor : Blackbeard (impel down), Magellan (impel down).

As for Whitebeard and color of the conqueror in general well, having it does not mean that you can use it. As far as we know, Whitebeard, Shanks, Gold Roger, Railey, Ace, Garp, Dragon, Hancock and Luffy have it.
Not all of them have mastered it, and if you look at that least, that makes Luffy pretty exceptional…
I think that Mihawk and Doflamingo have it.
I think that Zoro has it too, and in time will be able to use it on exceptionnal occasions. But ultimately the masters of conqueror are only Roger, Railey and Shanks so if Luffy masters it that makes him imba.

…......

No he didnt demonstrate anything besides CoC, Blackbeard is a hitable Logia dont you read the manga? and Magellan isnt a Logia, I wont even comment on the CoO example.

asm00200

@Igosuki:

But ultimately the masters of conqueror are only Roger, Railey and Shanks.

this sentence some how confuse me!!

how did you rank these as the only Masters of CoC when the only thing we saw them do

was making people faint and sent flying. and whitebeard did that two times

that's more than any other character in the whole series.

edit: and what does cutting steel has to do with Haki?????????

Outerspec

@Igosuki:

Yes, Luffy also hit Smoker and Ace in Alabasta, he didn't use haki then, did he ?
Against a non logia creature CoA allows you to hit harder, that's what I meant ;)
My theory is that Luffy was using CoA naturally in his techniques more and more without noticing.
Which is just like Zoro imbuing CoA Haki in his swords.
Against Daz Bones Zoro used both CoA and CoO and I predict he will master both, so will Sanji.
The only difference between Zoro and Sanji will be that Zoro can sometimes trigger CoC and will be a bit stronger in pure sense.

Of course it's only my opinion, but I like to discuss it :)

When Luffy hit Smoker and then they hit Ace that was a gag. Like when Nami hits Luffy and a large bump grows out of his forehead showing he's all bruised and hurt. She doesn't have Haki, it's just for the laughs and rules don't apply then.

I do agree it seems in Impel Down he was unintentionally hitting while using Haki as Blackbeard did remark his "Haki has improved." So maybe he did hit Magellan with a bit of CoA.

Igosuki

@GetsugaZoro:

…......

No he didnt demonstrate anything besides CoC, Blackbeard is a hitable Logia dont you read the manga? and Magellan isnt a Logia, I wont even comment on the CoO example.

I think YOU don't read the manga.
http://manga.animea.net/one-piece-chapter-544-page-9.html
In japanese it was written "Haki" just as it is anywhere else.
I clearly remember it since I lived in Japan when this came out.

@Outerspec
That's my point, only on the first strike when he says i'm gonna smack you one then he used CoA a bit and baaaammm but still Magellan is imba and thus was not defeated.

isrnick

@Igosuki:

strawhats with and s ? every fight ?
Nope, it's just Sanji (Diable Jambe), Zoro and Luffy (in various cases)

Or you think that Haki just appeared on Luffy at Amazon Lily one of a sudden ? Don't make me laugh. Black beard also said that Luffy's Haki had IMPROVED.
Anyway don't bother answering to me if you're going to say the straw hats are s*** because i'm a die hard fanboy, sorry.

Actually the first time was when he knocked down Motobaro (Duval's bison) using CoC, but nobody understood what happened at the time.

LeaD

@Igosuki:

Yes, Luffy also hit Smoker and Ace in Alabasta, he didn't use haki then, did he ?
Against a non logia creature CoA allows you to hit harder, that's what I meant ;)
My theory is that Luffy was using CoA naturally in his techniques more and more without noticing.
Which is just like Zoro imbuing CoA Haki in his swords.
Against Daz Bones Zoro used both CoA and CoO and I predict he will master both, so will Sanji.
The only difference between Zoro and Sanji will be that Zoro can sometimes trigger CoC and will be a bit stronger in pure sense.

Of course it's only my opinion, but I like to discuss it :)

You do realize that Smoker and Ace aren't always incorporeal right? They control when they use their abilities. They were blind sided by Luffy and were in their physical form.

When has Sanji ever shown a hint of Haki? Who trained him in it as of late? Zoro and Luffy have always been a little ahead of Sanji strength wise, and that divide seems to have definitely become larger with Oda show casing how strong the two of them have become in this latest chapter. Not saying Sanji is weak, but Luffy and Zoro look to be a class or two above at this point.

Chicken

Usopp infused his weapons with CoA haki when he fought Luffy, amirite? :ninja:

GrizzlayLeslay

Luffy DID use CoO against Eneru, when he used the "Baka" move to shut off his brain. He used it instinctively.

Igosuki

@Chicken:

Usopp infused his weapons with CoA haki when he fought Luffy, amirite? :ninja:

Did I say this ? No.

Pacer

@Igosuki:

I think YOU don't read the manga.
http://manga.animea.net/one-piece-chapter-544-page-9.html
In japanese it was written "Haki" just as it is anywhere else.
I clearly remember it since I lived in Japan when this came out.

@Outerspec
That's my point, only on the first strike when he says i'm gonna smack you one then he used CoA a bit and baaaammm but still Magellan is imba and thus was not defeated.

is it written anywhere that blackbeard can sense the level of haki? from what i've seen, being hit by CoA and hit by a very strong punch looks the exact same. luFfy is very strong physically, BB could have just easily mistakened it for haki

Rubber Fist Luffy

@Gerchak:

Luffy DID use CoO against Eneru, when he used the "Baka" move to shut off his brain. He used it instinctively.

No, he shut off his brain so he was using his instincts, that way Enel wouldn't predict luffy's movements.

Chicken

@Gerchak:

Luffy DID use CoO against Eneru, when he used the "Baka" move to shut off his brain. He used it instinctively.

Citation needed.

MarcelloF

@Gerchak:

Luffy DID use CoO against Eneru, when he used the "Baka" move to shut off his brain. He used it instinctively.

How is that CoO?

GetsugaZoro

@Igosuki:

I think YOU don't read the manga.
http://manga.animea.net/one-piece-chapter-544-page-9.html
In japanese it was written "Haki" just as it is anywhere else.
I clearly remember it since I lived in Japan when this came out.

I dont care if you live in japan or even if you are japanese, your making a bad interpretation of stuff, that doesnt even make sense to what you are tryint to prove, me being portuguese doesnt make have a better interpretation of a portuguese text then a person who isnt portuguese and understands perfect portuguese.

Oh yes btw a word in any language can have different interpretations, hell the haki word was translated diferently by diferent translators, INTERPRETATION is the key word here.

After this sorry I wont answer you anymore you dont deserve it, welcome to the AGOG(ignore) list.

Outerspec

@Chicken:

Usopp infused his weapons with CoA haki when he fought Luffy, amirite? :ninja:

Usopp used spikes, explosions, and hot sauce. ;)

Oh, and an Impact Dial.

Chicken

@Outerspec:

Usopp used spikes, explosions, and hot sauce. ;)

Oh, and an Impact Dial.

All of which were haki infused! :ninja:

Would love me some of that haki infused hot sauce…

Igosuki

@GetsugaZoro:

I dont care if you live in japan or even if you are japanese, your making a bad interpretation of stuff, that doesnt even make sense to what you are tryint to prove, me being portuguese doesnt make have a better interpretation of a portuguese text then a person who isnt portuguese and understands perfect portuguese.

After this sorry I wont answer you anymore you dont deserve it, welcome to the AGOG list.

You don't read Japanese, I do, I proved you wrong because I actually read the text as Oda the author of this manga wrote it. You are just a kid who can't admit he's wrong. Bye.

Pacer

PEOPLE. not everything is freaken haki. people are starting to think that evrything is. when luffy shut his brain off, its just reflexes he was on, such as u breathing. sanji's diable jambe is just a technique of heating his leg.

Smash_Lampjaw

@Jejune:

Sheep eating meat = disturbing.

Gyanzack

I can totally see this happening.

http://perappi.deviantart.com/art/One-Piece-chp-600-The-reunion-181831957

GrizzlayLeslay

@Rubber:

No, he shut off his brain so he was using his instincts, that way Enel wouldn't predict luffy's movements.

@Chicken:

Citation needed.

@MarcelloF:

How is that CoO?

I can't prove it, but you can't disprove it. I think that move had traces of CoO in it, at the very least.

Everyone's born with Haki, so it's entirely possible (note, not impossible) that the Baka move, and even some things CP9 did, have traces of CoO and CoA in it.

I'm positive someone's going to ask about it in SBS.

RomanceDawn

@Pacer:

is it written anywhere that blackbeard can sense the level of haki? from what i've seen, being hit by CoA and hit by a very strong punch looks the exact same. luFfy is very strong physically, BB could have just easily mistakened it for haki.

PEOPLE. not everything is freaken haki. people are starting to think that evrything is. when luffy shut his brain off, its just reflexes he was on, such as u breathing. sanji's diable jambe is just a technique of heating his leg.

Oda writes his dialogue to be very clear. Black Beard can sense Haki, there are no 2 ways about it.

As for Sanji, it's not that he creates fire with Haki, it's that he protects himself from it. Marigold the defensive user did something similiar, along with Oda's joke answer about Sanji's passion burning hotter thats what leads some to believe its Haki.

Outerspec

Wait, is it so hard to believe Luffy unintentionally used a bit of Haki (particularly CoA) when he hit Blackbeard?

! CoA is not only used to hit intangible Logia users (which Blackbeard isn't) but to strengthen attacks. It's pretty blatant. Blackbeard has been pirating for over 20 years under Whitebeard so he should know something about Haki.

Rubber Fist Luffy

@Gerchak:

I can't prove it, but you can't disprove it. I think that move had traces of CoO in it, at the very least.

Everyone's born with Haki, so it's entirely possible (note, not impossible) that the Baka move, and even some things CP9 did, have traces of CoO and CoA in it.

I'm positive someone's going to ask about it in SBS.

When they defeated the priest at the ordeal of balls, they defeated him because he lost focus and couldn't use his mantra (CoO)

You need to focus to use CoO, if luffy isn't even thinking, how could he possibly focus?

Rubber Fist Luffy

@Gyanzack:

I can totally see this happening.

http://perappi.deviantart.com/art/One-Piece-chp-600-The-reunion-181831957

Made me LOL

@Outerspec:

Wait, is it so hard to believe Luffy unintentionally used a bit of Haki (particularly CoA) when he hit Blackbeard?

! http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7761/13823605.jpgCoA is not only used to hit intangible Logia users (which Blackbeard isn't) but to strengthen attacks. It's pretty blatant.

I believe this is what Igosuki was trying to say.

semil

I think its fairly explicitely stated in the manga that Luffy turned off his thoughts (somehow), and that effected Enel's Mantra, which is CoO. You don't need USE haki to DEFEAT haki. I don't need to prove it, because it isn't hinted anywhere.

Outerspec

@Rubber:

Made me LOL

I believe this is what Igosuki was trying to say.

I know, and I was agreeing with him and pointing out a panel which specifically said "Haki."

Igosuki

@Pacer:

PEOPLE. not everything is freaken haki. people are starting to think that evrything is. when luffy shut his brain off, its just reflexes he was on, such as u breathing. sanji's diable jambe is just a technique of heating his leg.

If you read the posts, you would see that actually nobody thinks that everything is Haki. But for somebody that thinks in Binary I understand the confusion of unsigned numbers.

MarcelloF

@Gerchak:

I can't prove it, but you can't disprove it. I think that move had traces of CoO in it, at the very least.

Everyone's born with Haki, so it's entirely possible (note, not impossible) that the Baka move, and even some things CP9 did, have traces of CoO and CoA in it.

I'm positive someone's going to ask about it in SBS.

The description of CoO: "The ability to sense the opponents "presence" even more strongly. If this ability is increased, enemies in locations invisible to the naked eye can be discerned. Their numbers… And even what they will do in the next moment, can all be gleaned."

At most, it was CoA, and even then it's a very, very, very long stretch.

asm00200

@semil:

You don't need USE haki to DEFEAT haki.

yes, you don't.. because CoA and CoO are like a power up.

Haki will be useless against people who are stronger than you!!

edit: before anyone ask for profess, remember the Boa sister's fight!!

Pacer

@RomanceDawn:

Oda writes his dialogue to be very clear. Black Beard can sense Haki, there are no 2 ways about it.

As for Sanji, it's not that he creates fire with Haki, it's that he protects himself from it. Marigold the defensive user did something similiar, along with Oda's joke answer about Sanji's passion burning hotter thats what leads some to believe its Haki.

i dont think he protected himself from it at all.

he says hes gonna break his leg doing that. obviously he isnt' protecting himself from the intensity of it. u can say the heat would melt his leg or w/e, but then i'll tell u that he hasn't melted anything by touchign it with his leg, only burning. as a cook myself, i'll tell u that i can touch a surface for a while without burning myself.