Chapter 594: "Message" Discussion

AMS

@robbybedfart:

Join date of… July 2010. Got it.

Quit double posting.

Its against the rules and you're being consistent about it. There's an edit button, and a multi-quote button.

Use them.

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=21

I am sorry I did not see that rule posted, could you please point it out to me in the thread listed?

Also I think some of these members seem to ignore this rule

**> 8. NO BASHING OTHER MEMBERS

even in other languages. anyone who gets bashed on PMs can report such a thing to any admins or mods, and we'll make sure the basher gets sent to hell. and yes, that also means no creating new topics to bash members.**

They may require a warning as well.

Edit*

@Darkstorm:

When was the last time Luffy won a big fight.

He lost against Kizaru, Magellan and was a human pinball in the war.

Since the end of Thriller Bark, the strawhats have gotten their arses kicked with no recourse.

They haven't done what you're talking about for over two year, and with good reason.

Not exactly hard to miss

http://apforums.net/faq.php?faq=ap_faq#faq_new_faq_item

Well thank you for point that out. I certainly have no desire to break the rules of the forum.

Darkstorm

@AMS:

As for the time skip thing, think whatever you want as well. My original statement was ambigous enough, I never said that all timeskips are bad, but rather they generally tend to indicate such and such a thing. If you disagree then you are free to do so. I just do not see the purpose of one in One Piece. There is no reason Luffy and co. cannot head into the New World at their current level and get strongeron the way, as they have done for the past 592 chapters.

When was the last time Luffy won a big fight.

He lost against Kizaru, Magellan and was a human pinball in the war.

Since the end of Thriller Bark, the strawhats have gotten their arses kicked with no recourse.

They haven't done what you're talking about for over two year, and with good reason.

@AMS:

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=21

I am sorry I did not see that rule posted, could you please point it out to me in the thread listed?

Not exactly hard to miss

http://apforums.net/faq.php?faq=ap_faq#faq_new_faq_item

AMS

@robbybedfart:

Aside from every single thing that has happened since Sabondy.

As someone pointed out earlier Kid seems to be doing fine and we have no reason to assume his crew is stronger than Luffy's. We also have no reason to believe that every enemy in the new world is going to be Admiral level or even Kuma level.

Darkstorm

@AMS:

As someone pointed out earlier Kid seems to be doing fine and we have no reason to assume his crew is stronger than Luffy's. We also have no reason to believe that every enemy in the new world is going to be Admiral level or even Kuma level.

What is "even kuma level". You have no idea how strong Kuma is.

Why do you think Rayleigh said events would repeat themselves.

Nob1e-Freak

If the Straw Hat crew don't return to their ships as soon as possible then they will find a hard time looking for a new boat. I think this due to the attitude change of Kuma during the War were he had a fight with his frined Ivan and also had the robot features attached to him. He is definitly going to do something to the Sunny-Go

iPenguin

@AMS:

As someone pointed out earlier Kid seems to be doing fine and we have no reason to assume his crew is stronger than Luffy's. We also have no reason to believe that every enemy in the new world is going to be Admiral level or even Kuma level.

Hey remember the Marineford Arc where almost every character participating was from the New World and a lot stronger than Luffy?

Sammsy

luffy and co (minus usopp) are PHYSICALLY strong enough already, they aren't going to do any leaps and bounds in the muscle department.

Nob1e-Freak

@Sammsy:

luffy and co (minus usopp) are PHYSICALLY strong enough already, they aren't going to do any leaps and bounds in the muscle department.

Why would you say such a thing about Usopp. He is an able fighter when his not messing about or running for cover. For example in Thriller Bark, were he was the only one that could face the gilr with the negative powers.

It also looks like that the writters are making Usopp stronger by putting him on that Man(and everything else) eating island

AMS

@Joel:

Hey remember the Marineford Arc where almost every character participating was from the New World and a lot stronger than Luffy?

Most of the characters we saw were from Whitebeards crew though right?

SGRaaize

@Kairouseki:

2001: A Space Odyssey

Yeah, but 2001 are different stories, same for bible

@robbybedfart:

Join date of… July 2010. Got it.

Best… argument... EVAH111!!!!

CCC

@Nob1e-Freak:

Why would you say such a thing about Usopp. He is an able fighter when his not messing about or running for cover. For example in Thriller Bark, were he was the only one that could face the gilr with the negative powers.

It also looks like that the writters are making Usopp stronger by putting him on that Man(and everything else) eating island

Like everyone always does, I have to bring up the fact that Oda said for a fact that Usopp will always be the weakest SH. If we take that at face value, then we'll need a bodybuilder Nami before we see Usopp flexing any muscles at all. And no one said he doesn't have a strategic mind, but the "fight" against Perona was basically a joke…

Zik

@Sammsy:

luffy and co (minus usopp) are PHYSICALLY strong enough already

Physically strong enough for what? To get thrashed by pacifista?

OldSnake

I have a feeling that Luffy's first fight he wins is gonna be beyound epic K.O.

@robbybedfart:

Join date of… July 2010. Got it.

Come on Robby! Join date argument??? -2 cool points

vorlianis

Why would we have to timeskip. Right now a new era is coming in One piece. It seems alot more interesting for luffy to move along in this period while his supernova counterparts and BB are not that far ahead. If we do a 2 year timeskip BB might very likely be the pirate king already.

Outerspec

A 2 year time skip? Think about everything that has happened in less than a year. They entered and pushed through the first half of the Grandline already. Nobody is going to wait around for Luffy's crew to reunite in 2 years. Look at what has happened in merely 3 weeks after the war. The Supernovas are already through to the New World. By the time they reunite half the Supernovas would be nearly to Raftel and Bonney would be Blackbeard's mistress.

On a side note though, it did take Roger 3 years to conquer the Grand Line. >_>

Tsukishima

@AMS:

As someone pointed out earlier Kid seems to be doing fine and we have no reason to assume his crew is stronger than Luffy's. We also have no reason to believe that every enemy in the new world is going to be Admiral level or even Kuma level.

Yeah, but Urouge and Capone are proof that this part of the world is no joke. Kidd was lucky because he only met some pirates that intended to flee from this zone, but wait until they met an Emperor, a lvl6 prisoners, or some strong silver Medalists and you will see, he won't laugh.

That's why even after the timeskip, you will see that Kidd and the other SN will still be far from being Pirate King.

AMS

@Tsukishima:

Yeah, but Urouge and Capone are proof that this part of the world is no joke. Kidd was lucky because he only met some pirates that intended to flee from this zone, but wait until they met an Emperor, a lvl6 prisoners, or some strong silver Medalists and you will see, he won't laugh.

That's why even after the timeskip, you will see that Kidd and the other SN will still be far from being Pirate King.

Time will tell what happens with Urouge and Capone I suppose. I am really curious as to how anyone would dock on that island that Urouge pulled up on, I hope Oda addresses that in the future.

baby-boo

@'Pa[i:

n.;1763997']
I am seeing Zoro as the vice-captain,something like Roger's and Ray's relationship,Luffy depends very much on Zoro anyway and he has showed it countless times…

Sure I love their captain and first mate thing. Both understand honor very well, and both pretty much have the same idea what to do, like when Luffy beat the Tenrybtio (i forgot to to write it), and Zoro had the same idea.

Or at Jaya, when Zoro pointed at the Bellamy mark, knew what Luffy was gonna do, and asked if he wanted help. Or when they were going to Enies Lobby on the train when a big wave was coming, and Luffy just said his name, and they went.

Sansji is always somewhere else…

Sammsy

@Nob1e-Freak:

Why would you say such a thing about Usopp. He is an able fighter when his not messing about or running for cover. For example in Thriller Bark, were he was the only one that could face the gilr with the negative powers.

It also looks like that the writters are making Usopp stronger by putting him on that Man(and everything else) eating island

i'm talking about pure muscle here. you know the guy usopp who has a hard time holding heavier than 10 lb frying pans.
@Zik:

Physically strong enough for what? To get thrashed by pacifista?

they are physically strong enough now

there is more to fighting than just throwing huge icebergs around. i bet whitebeard, shanks or any of the admirals can throw that iceberg that Jozu threw, does that mean he is the most powerful/strongest man in the world.

being able to bench 500 lbs instead of 450 lbs isn't going to bring luffy to whitebeard level. the strawhats minus usopp have the muscle they need to become world powers. they need to work on other aspects. They had all the muscle they needed from the start, and have been relying on that since the start. Now they realize that there is more to the world than just pure BRUTE strength.

Zoro should have started to figure that out back in arabasta, but seems he didn't quite fully comprehend it yet

And not having to worry about building up brute strength there is no need for a time skip, we can see these other things in real time happen, such as cutting steel or other haki things.

Mikan

Why does everyone act like Luffy is a complete weakling? He's weaker than the most powerful men in the world - I should hope so, considering that the story's barely half done. The Marineford arc shows how strong Luffy will have to become by the end. But the other Supernovas are already making their way through the New World, and I doubt they're going to face Akainu or Blackbeard for a while yet. We're most likely going back to villain-arcs, so why act like he has to defeat Blackbeard next week?

Luffy's made a lot of progress since the beginning of the story, when he struggled against Buggy. He is very strong, compared to most of his contemporaries. I want to continue watching him get stronger, not have him emerge all-powerful from off-screen.

baby-boo

@robbybedfart:

Aside from every single thing that has happened since Sabondy.

But they were attacked by multiple Kumas, an axe dude and an Admiral. An admiral is like a Yonkou level, how often would that happen (except that the two previous times). All the other Supernovas went there.

Robby

@OldSnake:

I have a feeling that Luffy's first fight he wins is gonna be beyound epic K.O.

Join date has nothing to do with the quality of a poster.

However.

When they joined two weeks ago and it explains someone having no idea how the forum works, the myriad of ways it goes off topic while remaining on topic, or what the rules are, or they are making certain kinds of statements, its an important thing to note.

If a poster thats been a board member for two years, or even two months, was doing or saying the exact same things, they'd be getting infractions or sterner warnings.

Only reason the double posting is being allowed to slide is BECAUSE of the join date, and AMS has clearly never been told this before.

@baby-boo:

But they were attacked by multiple Kumas, an axe dude and an Admiral. An admiral is like a Yonkou level, how often would that happen (except that the two previous times).

Considering what Luffy does to attract attention? All the time. As soon as the next arc. He has a habit of bringing on worst case scenarios, and he's done a lot more to become an even more wanted man lately..

It wasn't JUST the one instance where Luffy was stomped down by sheer numbers. He was helpless against every opponent there, not just the sheer number of them. He hasn't won a single fight since then, abnd he BARELY beat Lucchi and Moria, and for the last hundred chapters has only survived sheerly by luck and with the help of his world class top tier alies, and has still very, very nearly died.

Zik

@Sammsy:

they are physically strong enough now

Strong enough for what? You think Sanji, Zoro, Chopper, and Luffy don't get stronger physically through the new techniques they learn and then frequently use?

None of them were strong enough to put a dent in Kuma or a pacifista. You think physical strength wasn't part of the reason they had a hard time with it? When the SHs do get stronger they'll be stronger than before. Of course Oda isn't going to make them muscle bound to prove that though.

OldSnake

@robbybedfart:

Join date has nothing to do with the quality of a poster.

However.

When they joined two weeks ago and it explains someone having no idea how the forum works, the myriad of ways it goes off topic while remaining on topic, or what the rules are, or they are making certain kinds of statements, its an important thing to note.

If a poster thats been a board member for two years, or even two months, was doing or saying the exact same things, they'd be getting infractions or sterner warnings.

Only reason the double posting is being allowed to slide is BECAUSE of the join date, and AMS has clearly never been told this before.

After reading your explanation I see what you ment, just anyone else reading it with out understanding your meaning (like me at first and like AMS) would clearly take it as a bashing insult the way it was posted, but I get you.

P.S. -2 cool points was just a joke.

Sammsy

@Zik:

Strong enough for what? You think Sanji, Zoro, Chopper, and Luffy don't get stronger physically through the new techniques they learn and then frequently use?

None of them were strong enough to put a dent in Kuma or a pacifista. You think physical strength wasn't part of the reason they had a hard time with it? When the SHs do get stronger they'll be stronger than before. Of course Oda isn't going to make them muscle bound to prove that though.

no, them punching kuma will go from a non dent to a huge dent, or total destruction not from becoming stronger, but from something like haki.

luffy had hit big names before such as blackbeard and you can clearly see he is insanely strong or the how the amazons were insanely impressed with his punhcing that panther with brute strength. He has the brute strength, now he needs to add other elements.

Monkey.D.Joeru

@Sammsy:

no, them punching kuma will go from a non dent to a huge dent, or total destruction not from becoming stronger, but from something like haki.

luffy had hit big names before such as blackbeard and you can clearly see he is insanely strong or the how the amazons were insanely impressed with his punhcing that panther with brute strength. He has the brute strength, now he needs to add other elements.

feats of luffys strength have improved throughout the series
vs kuro he struggles to lift a rock
before enies lobby he breaks a city apart.
yes luffy is insanely strong, but he is not strong enough
the same way he is insanely fast, but not fast enough
haki isn't a magic cure to everything, this is a shounen, physical stats will improve.
I'll be pissed if luffy never attains garp level strength and is never able to chuck giant steel balls, even after becoming pk

bb66

There's probably a giant hole in this theory but didn't Kuma talk to Ray after the war, and couldn't he have told him where the other straw hats were. and then Ray could have told Luffy.
This is assuming Kuma's ability allows him to know where he sends people (which i think there's enough evidence for).
This would mean that in Ray's 'plan' the where-abouts of the straw hats are already known.

No Maam

He said he's from the RA , not sure if he had time to name all the locations .

Zik

@Sammsy:

no, them punching kuma will go from a non dent to a huge dent, or total destruction not from becoming stronger, but from something like haki.

luffy had hit big names before such as blackbeard and you can clearly see he is insanely strong or the how the amazons were insanely impressed with his punhcing that panther with brute strength. He has the brute strength, now he needs to add other elements.

Blackbeard is a terrible example. I don't think he's dodged an attack coming at him once in the entire story.

Luffy being able to punch BB in ID doesn't mean the crew is strong enough. If you really think haki is going to be the sole power up for the crew and actually getting stronger won't play a role you're not paying attention.

The doctor even said in this chap it takes years of training to usually use haki (mantra). Last I checked training makes you physically stronger.

No Maam

Whitebeard also never dodges anything :ninja:

Zik

@No:

Whitebeard also never dodges anything :ninja:

I can reply many ways since I use to say the same but there were a couple times he did actually dodge in the war. Regardless he was planning to die and he was a decrepit old man so he only had so many dodges in him to use.

BB on the other hand really does seem like he doesn't rely on speed at all but durability.

Sammsy

@Zik:

Blackbeard is a terrible example. I don't think he's dodged an attack coming at him once in the entire story.

Luffy being able to punch BB in ID doesn't mean the crew is strong enough. If you really think haki is going to be the sole power up for the crew and actually getting stronger won't play a role you're not paying attention.

The doctor even said in this chap it takes years of training to usually use haki (mantra). Last I checked training makes you physically stronger.

this has nothing to do with dodging, i'm talking about the brute strength ONLY

you guys constantly say how blackbeard is such a tank, and yet he seemed genuinely hurt from luffy's punch. luffy's gear 3 attacks could be argued to be the strongest brute force attacks in all of one piece. take out haki, or some special devil fruit like diamond (harder fist)and then i would argue that luffy's gear 3rd does the most base damage. Now again its super easy to dodge.

Redspear

he needs to combine gear 2 and 3

Zik

@Sammsy:

this has nothing to do with dodging, i'm talking about the brute strength ONLY

you guys constantly say how blackbeard is such a tank, and yet he seemed genuinely hurt from luffy's punch. luffy's gear 3 attacks could be argued to be the strongest brute force attacks in all of one piece. take out haki, or some special devil fruit like diamond (harder fist)and then i would argue that luffy's gear 3rd does the most base damage. Now again its super easy to dodge.

BB's reaction? That's suppose to be an indication that Luffy's strong enough for the NW physically? and that also means that he won't improve and get stronger? Any training ppl think he will go through won't also have the result of making him stronger physically? You're just going to ignore everything that entails getting stronger physically; stamina, endurance, muscle strength, speed, etc.? The crew will get none of that?

W/e improvement they get it'll have nothing to do with getting stronger physically? Seriously?

No Maam

@ RedSpear : Didn't he do that during TB ?

Retsudo

@Sammsy:

this has nothing to do with dodging, i'm talking about the brute strength ONLY

you guys constantly say how blackbeard is such a tank, and yet he seemed genuinely hurt from luffy's punch. luffy's gear 3 attacks could be argued to be the strongest brute force attacks in all of one piece.

So Luffy is better than Newgate.

Redspear

yeah but more efficiently this time instead of throwing his giant body at someone.

Sammsy

@Retsudo:

So Luffy is better than Newgate.

lets say we are in dbz at the tournament and they both had to punch that punching thing and it wouldn't break

i believe luffy's gear 3rd punch would register a higher number than a newgate punch (no haki, or quake power used).

that is all i'm saying. luffy's brute strength is fine.

Warfare

@Sammsy:

this has nothing to do with dodging, i'm talking about the brute strength ONLY

you guys constantly say how blackbeard is such a tank, and yet he seemed genuinely hurt from luffy's punch. luffy's gear 3 attacks could be argued to be the strongest brute force attacks in all of one piece. take out haki, or some special devil fruit like diamond (harder fist)and then i would argue that luffy's gear 3rd does the most base damage. Now again its super easy to dodge.

You mean behind N. Moria's punch right…There's still plenty of room for Luffy to improve physical force IMO.

Zik

@Sammsy:

lets say we are in dbz at the tournament and they both had to punch that punching thing and it wouldn't break

i believe luffy's gear 3rd punch would register a higher number than a newgate punch (no haki, or quake power used).

that is all i'm saying. luffy's brute strength is fine.

This also goes for your other comment about taking away WB's haki and DF and comparing a punch from him under those conditions to a technique Luffy couldn't do without his DF.

Sâuza

@Redspear:

yeah but more efficiently this time instead of throwing his giant body at someone.

Wasn't that the most efficient attack that Luffy could've done in gear 2nd and 3rd combined ?

And isn't it btw supposed to show Luffy's limit in power now that you look at it ? Because it was the final efficient attack against a big player.

I think it may be a way to show Luffy's introduction to a new style (or a powerup might be more appropriate) in fighting (haki)

Sammsy

@Warfare:

You mean behind N. Moria's punch right…There's still plenty of room for Luffy to improve physical force IMO.

ah touche, forgot about moria's punch when he is big.

so numeral #2, potentially 3 behind possibly sengoku as well when big

Redspear

what if he threw fast gear third punches using the combo?

mr.french

I think Luffy should stop using Gears. I don't want him to rely on pushing the abilities of his df power anymore. Somehow though, I don't think he'll stop.

baby-boo

@robbybedfart:

Considering what Luffy does to attract attention? All the time. As soon as the next arc. He has a habit of bringing on worst case scenarios, and he's done a lot more to become an even more wanted man lately..

It wasn't JUST the one instance where Luffy was stomped down by sheer numbers. He was helpless against every opponent there, not just the sheer number of them. He hasn't won a single fight since then, abnd he BARELY beat Lucchi and Moria, and for the last hundred chapters has only survived sheerly by luck and with the help of his world class top tier alies, and has still very, very nearly died.

Sure I know, but I don't see him waiting for it for such a long time before going there.

Monkey.D.Joeru

@Redspear:

what if he threw fast gear third punches using the combo?

ever play jump ultimate stars?

Retsudo

@Sammsy:

lets say we are in dbz at the tournament and they both had to punch that punching thing and it wouldn't break

i believe luffy's gear 3rd punch would register a higher number than a newgate punch (no haki, or quake power used).

that is all i'm saying. luffy's brute strength is fine.

So wait, you're for some reason taking away WB's DF powers and Presence powers and yet letting Luffy keep his DF powers.

Bad post.

Nob1e-Freak

@mr.french:

I think Luffy should stop using Gears. I don't want him to rely on pushing the abilities of his df power anymore. Somehow though, I don't think he'll stop.

he will definitly wont stop any of his gear moves due to that he is nothing without them. he may not need it if he learns to use haki, but even with haki i think he wont stand a chance against any of the admirals.

Kizaru for Fleet Admiral:ninja:

Sabo

@mr.french:

I think Luffy should stop using Gears. I don't want him to rely on pushing the abilities of his df power anymore. Somehow though, I don't think he'll stop.

Usually characters have a thing called… character development. Fighting wise characters use their strengths and extend on them.

Usopp got a better, bigger, slingshot, and a bunch of new amo.

Franky will surely get an upgrade.

And Luffy learned gears, and soru. He will surely learn haki on top of those.

Also if you read Luffy's past story it takes him a very very long time to properly fire his fists, thanks to his rubber ability. A regular person like, Sanji would have it easier because they do not have to get used to learning a devil fruit.

Nob1e-Freak

@Sabo:

Usually characters have a thing called… character development. Fighting wise characters use their strengths and extend on them.

Usopp got a better, bigger, slingshot, and a bunch of new amo.

Franky will surely get an upgrade.

And Luffy learned gears, and soru. He will surely learn haki on top of those.

Also if you read Luffy's past story it takes him a very very long time to properly fire his fists, thanks to his rubber ability. A regular person like, Sanji would have it easier because they do not have to get used to learning a devil fruit.

that is right, but i does take time and i dont think that they are strong enough to go into the new world as they are now.

i am pretty certain that he would learn haki while his at the all female island (oh i wish it existed). if their is a two year time lap then i hope that it turns out well. im scared it might be a flop.

Kizaru for Fleet Admiral